CNN: Pope says condoms may be OK in some circumstances

[easjer]

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/11/20/pope-says-condoms-may-be-ok-in-some-circumstances/?npt=NP1


Pope Benedict XVI said in comments released Saturday that the use of condoms may be morally acceptable in some cases to prevent the spread of AIDS, possibly foreshadowing a shift in the Roman Catholic Church's stance on the issue.

The pope's remarks outline an exception to the church's long-held policy against the use of artificial contraception, including condoms.

The pontiff, speaking to the author of a book that will be published next week, cited the example of a prostitute.

"There could be single cases that can be justified, for instance when a prostitute uses a condom, and this can be a first step towards a moralization, a first assumption of responsibility, to develop again the awareness of the fact that not all is allowed and that one cannot do everything one wants," Benedict said.

The Vatican newspaper on Saturday released excerpts from the book, "Light of the World: The Pope, the Church, and the Signs of the Times," written by German journalist Peter Seewald and pubilshed by Ignatius Press.

CNN Senior Vatican Analyst John Allen cautioned that Benedict's comments do not rise to the level of official Vatican policy, but show the pontiff has flexibility in the church's opposition to birth control.

Allen said that a portion of the book refers to condom use among male prostitutes.

"I think the point he was trying to make, when somebody is using a condom, not so much to prevent new life, which has always been the Catholic Church's big concern, but to prevent the transmission of disease than it would be OK," Allen told CNN.

Although Benedict did not mention it, his statements indicate he may also find condoms appropriate in the case of heterosexual couples where one of the partners has a sexually transmitted disease, Allen added.

Catholic theologians and a special Vatican commission have previously said that condoms may be acceptable in some cases to prevent AIDS, Allen wrote in a blog Saturday.

But Benedict had kept silent on the issue.

Allen said he does not think the pontiff's comments signal a sea change in the church's broader birth control policy, as condoning the use of a condom to prevent the spread of disease is not the same as saying it's okay to use one to prevent a pregnancy.

Still, Benedict's comments open a door and appear to mark a shift in his thinking about condoms and AIDS.

Speaking about AIDS in 2009, he told journalists during a trip to Africa that "You can't resolve it with the distribution of condoms," the pope told reporters. "On the contrary, it increases the problem."
Posted by: The Editors - CNN Belief Blog



That is really fantastic. I hope that trend continues; it could make a real difference in the spread of HIV/AIDS in Africa (and elsewhere). Not yet official Church policy, but a really positive step in the right direction. Birth control for purposes other than preventing reproduction has been allowed for some time, so the Pope allowing for the use of condoms for similar health-related issues is tremendous.

[KapitanTutan]

http://images.clipartof.com/small/58278-Royalty-Free-RF-Clipart-Illustration-Of-A-Stick-People-Character-Man-Waving-And-Standing-In-A-Pink-Condom.jpg

[BlackSwordsMan]

is a kids' asshole an ok circumstance?

[I Cut]

The pope. LOL

[The Reckoning]

is a kids' asshole an ok circumstance?

what an original joke! have a cookie. now run along.



anyway, this view has been inevitably coming. wait until the older generation of Church leadership is replaced by a younger generation, and a whole new era of progressiveness will dominate Church policies. honestly, im excited about it and i know a lot of other Catholics are too. the Church has already seen progressiveness within smaller dioceses. it's about time the insitution as a whole is starting to catch up.

[silverblk mystix]

Although this is way,way past due and this is hopefully a sign that a change is coming, the change in attitude is welcome.

I don't subscribe to religion myself but just to see that the Catholic Church might begin to budge a little is encouraging.
It is big because if people who are catholic and predominantly poor can be encouraged to use condoms-it could also help with overpopulation and a myriad of other issues.

There is still a very large segment of people throughout the world that think that birth control is a sin and still believe that being pregnant is just a blessing from god and that god will give you as many children as he sees fit. Well, hopefully this will change some of that thinking.

Having said that, this should have been done a long time ago and I still don't think it is nearly enough but I guess you take what you can.

[ChuckD]

what an original joke! have a cookie. now run along.



anyway, this view has been inevitably coming. wait until the older generation of Church leadership is replaced by a younger generation, and a whole new era of progressiveness will dominate Church policies. honestly, im excited about it and i know a lot of other Catholics are too. the Church has already seen progressiveness within smaller dioceses. it's about time the insitution as a whole is starting to catch up.

What are you smoking? I'm 48, and the RC church has never been more reactionary and conservative in my lifetime. It's also heading more that way every day.

[The Reckoning]

What are you smoking? I'm 48, and the RC church has never been more reactionary and conservative in my lifetime. It's also heading more that way every day.


:lmao

really? care to elaborate?

[Blake]

anyway, this view has been inevitably coming. wait until the older generation of Church leadership is replaced by a younger generation, and a whole new era of progressiveness will dominate Church policies. honestly, im excited about it and i know a lot of other Catholics are too. the Church has already seen progressiveness within smaller dioceses. it's about time the insitution as a whole is starting to catch up.

I would not be excited that my church leaders are changing their minds about right and wrong.

[The Reckoning]

I would not be excited that my church leaders are changing their minds about right and wrong.

really? i seem to think otherwise. im excited that the Church is opening up to intellectual debate about the details in doctrine. the fundamental sense of what is right and wrong, however, remains the same.

"Be still, and know that I am God;
I will be exalted among the nations,
I will be exalted in the earth."

to me that psalm is, and always will be, the foundation of the Church. whether or not i wear condoms makes no difference. that's the problem with critics of religious institutions. they get caught up in the minute details rather than look at the big picture.

[KapitanTutan]

just wonderin if the pope ever tried using one of those?

[Blake]

that's the problem with critics of religious institutions. they get caught up in the minute details rather than look at the big picture.

what's the big picture?

[Trainwreck2100]

I would not be excited that my church leaders are changing their minds about right and wrong.

when the law was written AIDS wasn't a factor

[The Reckoning]

what's the big picture?


http://i56.tinypic.com/24g3pxh.jpg








Sometimes you lose a forest through the trees.

[Blake]

Sometimes you lose a forest through the trees.

deep.

[easjer]

I would not be excited that my church leaders are changing their minds about right and wrong.

Keeping in mind that I am NOT Catholic - I would be very pleased if the admission is a step in the right direction. We are all human, Church leaders included. The Church is a human institution and is not perfect. They should never claim to be. Because of that, things will be wrong.

There is no black and white. Pursuing one truth may inadvertently lead too far in one direction at the cost of another truth- CS Lewis says in Mere Christianity that when that happens, the only way to move in the right direction is to turn around and go back to the start and do it over, because you gain nothing by proceeding onwards.

That's what happened here. If this is the first step in acknowledging that sometimes things are not black and white and that birth control serves a purpose other than preventing conception and lives can be qualitatively enhanced or saved - that is a good, wonderful thing. It also means there may be hope yet for the Church in other areas.

[Fabbs]

what an original joke! have a cookie. now run along.
Kind of like what the *progressive* Pope tells molest victims of priests?

[easjer]

Why do the molesting priests have to be brought into every single discussion?

There is NO QUESTION that what they did was wrong, the cover up was wrong, the handling by the Church was wrong, every single thing about it was wrong.

It has nothing to do with the central point of this discussion, which is that the Church is finally, finally taking a stand that will have positive results and potentially save lives. I am not just trying to say "Oh, the Catholic Church is SO Wonderful! Yay, Jesus!" - I'm saying "Thank GOD they've finally taken a reasonable stance on something that affects millions and can make a real difference NOW."

[Fabbs]

Why do the molesting priests have to be brought into every single discussion?

There is NO QUESTION that what they did was wrong, the cover up was wrong, the handling by the Church was wrong, every single thing about it was wrong.
Not "was", is. They haven't rectified but a tiny portion, and even that comes after lawyering up and weasling out as much as possible. After "victimizing the victims" continues ad nauseum.

Hence this post by BlackSwords:

is a kids' asshole an ok circumstance?
Really doesn't have to be taken as a joke. Sadly.

Do you not see the irony over the CCs continues b.s. and now you are excited because old man Pope is allowing condoms *in certain extreme situations*. In 2010. :rollin
Haven't you figured out you are following man, not God?

[The Reckoning]

Do you not see the irony over the CCs continues b.s. and now you are excited because old man Pope is allowing condoms *in certain extreme situations*. In 2010.
Haven't you figured out you are following man, not God?



whether you like it or not, the Church has over A BILLION people in it. if the Church releases any positive change in policy, it effects the entire world. it doesnt matter what your personal beef is with the Church.

[BlackSwordsMan]

Jesus was a kiddie diddler?

[easjer]

Not "was", is. They haven't rectified but a tiny portion, and even that comes after lawyering up and weasling out as much as possible. After "victimizing the victims" continues ad nauseum.

Hence this post by BlackSwords:

Really doesn't have to be taken as a joke. Sadly.

Do you not see the irony over the CCs continues b.s. and now you are excited because old man Pope is allowing condoms *in certain extreme situations*. In 2010. :rollin
Haven't you figured out you are following man, not God?

I'm not Catholic. As I stated earlier. As I also said earlier, the Church is a human institution and should not be taken as perfect (even by themselves).

And you are correct that 'is' is the proper tense. And I think I was clear that I find every action of the Church to be wrong - if not, allow me to clarify. Every action the Church took in those cases was ABHORRENT.

Does this pronouncement make everything better? Nope.

Is it a big step that could save a lot of lives? Yes. I think that's reason to be excited. Whether you scorn the Church or not, there are millions who follow them abiding by their ridiculous rules about birth control and being infected with HIV/AIDS - African women are often infected through no fault of their own, but because of their husband's use of infected prostitutes - these people aren't using condoms because the Church condemns the use.

Backing off that stance is a GOOD thing. Too late, as noted, but better now than never.

[TinTin]

Whether you scorn the Church or not, there are millions who follow them abiding by their ridiculous rules about birth control and being infected with HIV/AIDS - African women are often infected through no fault of their own, but because of their husband's use of infected prostitutes - these people aren't using condoms because the Church condemns the use.


No, you gotta be kidding me. These people don't use condoms not because Church condemns the use but because they don't know it and are simply uneducated about it. You think they give a shit about the Church down in Africa? When was the last time any members of the pope's entourage went down there to educate them?

Any person who starts to use condoms now just because the Church said so and is aware of its protective measures already is a nutcase

[silverblk mystix]

No, you gotta be kidding me. These people don't use condoms not because Church condemns the use but because they don't know it and are simply uneducated about it. You think they give a shit about the Church down in Africa? When was the last time any members of the pope's entourage went down there to educate them?

Any person who starts to use condoms now just because the Church said so and is aware of its protective measures already is a nutcase

Not necessarily true in all cases.

There are many,many people in impoverished places-latin american countries for example, that still consider themselves catholics and still follow the church's rules and will not wear condoms until the church says it's ok. Not all these people are nutcases.

For example there are many married couples who follow the church's rules and believe that the amount of children that they bear is just the will of god, just god's blessings-so to speak. These people are not nutcases they just have been conditioned and brainwashed to believe this. If this couple makes the equivalent of 3 to 7 thousand a year in salary but have 13 kids-then this is generally not good for the planet, not good for the kids,etc...

The church changing its stance and okaying condoms for example-is a big deal for the most part and long overdue as was already mentioned.

[mouse]

Really.........does anyone actually give a shit what the pope has to say?

be honest.........

[silverblk mystix]

Really.........does anyone actually give a shit what the pope has to say?

be honest.........

I personally don't-for my sake.

But for the sake of the planet-since there are millions upon millions that do care about the pope-then it matters in that sense.

If the pope saying condoms are ok causes millions to use them who otherwise wouldn't, then it matters a whole lot.

[mouse]

I personally don't-for my sake.

But for the sake of the planet-

What planet are you from?

The Pope only really cares about Uranus.



before weed is smoked...
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/RackTheMouse/DSCF2656.jpg


after weed is smoked.......any questions?
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/RackTheMouse/Picture016-2.jpg

[RoddyBukkake]

damn it we were just starting to thin out the numbers of Africans :bang

[mouse]

w/o Africa would there even be a "black Friday" ?

what, ...............no rim shot?

wtf?

[Fabbs]

Not necessarily true in all cases.

There are many,many people in impoverished places-latin american countries for example, that still consider themselves catholics and still follow the church's rules and will not wear condoms until the church says it's ok. Not all these people are nutcases.

For example there are many married couples who follow the church's rules and believe that the amount of children that they bear is just the will of god, just god's blessings-so to speak. These people are not nutcases they just have been conditioned and brainwashed to believe this. If this couple makes the equivalent of 3 to 7 thousand a year in salary but have 13 kids-then this is generally not good for the planet, not good for the kids,etc...

The church changing its stance and okaying condoms for example-is a big deal for the most part and long overdue as was already mentioned.
The guy in the pointy cap says only an extremely limited use of condoms ie male prostitutes according to this Yahoo News clip. So how does this apply to all impoverished places like the Latin American countries married couples?

He used as a specific example male prostitutes, for whom contraception is not usually an issue, but did not mention married couples where one spouse is infected. The Vatican has come under pressure from even church officials to condone condom use for such monogamous married couples to protect the uninfected spouse from transmission.

[silverblk mystix]

The guy in the pointy cap says only an extremely limited use of condoms ie male prostitutes according to this Yahoo News clip. So how does this apply to all impoverished places like the Latin American countries married couples?

He used as a specific example male prostitutes, for whom contraception is not usually an issue, but did not mention married couples where one spouse is infected. The Vatican has come under pressure from even church officials to condone condom use for such monogamous married couples to protect the uninfected spouse from transmission.



He didn't really, I was just thinking that this might be a start to the church softening their stance on condoms/birth control.

It's a reach, I know but, still if this is a new direction...it would be positive.

And I wasn't even referring to infected partners or anything-just hoping for a start to some kind of birth control among catholics.

[BlackSwordsMan]

http://twitter.com/JimNorton/status/6522529673908225