North Korea just shelled them some South Korea

[IronMaxipad]

North Korea artillery fire hits South island

SEOUL | Tue Nov 23, 2010 1:22am EST

SEOUL (Reuters) - North Korea on Tuesday fired dozens of artillery shells at a South Korean island, setting buildings on fire and prompting a return fire by the South, Seoul's military and media reports said.

Seoul's YTN television quoted a witness as saying 60 to 70 houses were on fire after the shelling.

The military confirmed the exchange of firing, without providing more details.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6AM0TZ20101123


And. Here. We. Go.

[DMX7]

Before you even start, let them fight their own goddamn war.

[IronMaxipad]

Chosun Ilbo is saying about 200 shells were fired at 2:34 PM.

The South Korean Joint Chiefs of Staff issued a statement that they will exercise South Korea's right to defend itself and return fire.

Live stream get your popcorn ready :corn:

http://www.livestation.com/channels/3-al_jazeera_english

[DeadlyDynasty]

I'm gonna pretend this is nothing. Hope I'm right

[Technique]

Before you even start, let them fight their own goddamn war.

Does that ever happen. Ever?

[The Reckoning]

:depressed

i have friends in the South Korean military. hope theyre doing ok. last time i saw them i said the next time we'd see each other would be in the trenches.

[IronMaxipad]

http://i.imgur.com/RWAdW.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/DZ7Kb.jpg

[DeadlyDynasty]

Hellllllllo draft

[Drachen]

WTF shelled some random Island homes?

[IronMexican]

How is it day time over there? I look outside and see night.

[IronMaxipad]

How is it day time over there? I look outside and see night.


you shut your mouth beaner

[The Reckoning]

give IM slack hes never been outside the barrio

[PM5K]

Ugh, we all knew this was coming eventually.

[Technique]

This isn't going to be a big deal.

The problem be resolved within a week, both Russia and China are strongly against this. Seeing as how China has a tremendous amount of influence over North Korea this situation will not escalate, because it will simply harm North Korea's interests.

Worst comes to worst this turns into a full scale war between North Korea and South Korean. It won't be a world war simply because, well, most of the world dislikes North Korea and will not start a full scale war over the North's disillusions of grandeur

[Sisk]

This isn't going to be a big deal.

The problem be resolved within a week, both Russia and China are strongly against this. Seeing as how China has a tremendous amount of influence over North Korea this situation will not escalate, because it will simply harm North Korea's interests.

Worst comes to worst this turns into a full scale war between North Korea and South Korean. It won't be a world war simply because, well, most of the world dislikes North Korea and will not start a full scale war over the North's disillusions of grandeur

You think that the U.S. forces will sit there and let the South Koreans fight the North Koreans alone? I highly doubt it.

[DMX7]

You think that the U.S. forces will sit there and let the South Koreans fight the North Koreans alone? I highly doubt it.

In the past, not only would they not fight alone, we would fight the damn war for them and pickup the tab. Now, a little more is going to be on them, but certainly not all.

[desflood]

You think that the U.S. forces will sit there and let the South Koreans fight the North Koreans alone? I highly doubt it.
They goddamned well better.

U.S. troops are spread too thin and have too little equipment as it is.

[Nathan Explosion]

South Korea should just bomb the nuclear facility that North Korea said they didn't have just to send a message.

[BlackSwordsMan]

200 shells fired and only 2 dead? shitty aim

[Soul_Patch]

I think this is open invitation for the south to go in and wipe their shit out. Tired of hearing about this pathetic regime.

Reminds me of the awkward kid in school always doing weird shit like lighting ants on fire and throwing bugs on girls because no one will give him any attention.

[BlackSwordsMan]

they later become mav fans and troll spur forums

[MannyIsGod]

I think this is open invitation for the south to go in and wipe their shit out. Tired of hearing about this pathetic regime.

Reminds me of the awkward kid in school always doing weird shit like lighting ants on fire and throwing bugs on girls because no one will give him any attention.

Spoken like someone who knows shit about the area. You think they want to go wipe out the people they consider their brothers and sisters? Have you looked at a map? Have you seen how close Seoul is to the border? Well look at those images and multiply it by a million because NK won't even need nukes to make Seoul a wasteland and kill millions via artillery.

Why would the south ever avoid that? I mean war is just like a video game, right?

[SpursNextRomanEmpire]

Well look at those images and multiply it by a million

What the fuck does that even mean? Multiply what by a million?

[Soul_Patch]

Spoken like someone who knows shit about the area. You think they want to go wipe out the people they consider their brothers and sisters? Have you looked at a map? Have you seen how close Seoul is to the border? Well look at those images and multiply it by a million because NK won't even need nukes to make Seoul a wasteland and kill millions via artillery.

Why would the south ever avoid that? I mean war is just like a video game, right?

:lol I like how you always jump in the middle of issues like your the expert on the subject.

You are the expert on a lot of subjects it seems.

[BlackSwordsMan]

Manny made no sense. lol

[RandomGuy]

WTF shelled some random Island homes?

South was conducting live-fire arty practice offshore in some disputed waters. North said that was unacceptable, and that they would do something about it.

South did it anyways, mostly because they are still HIGHLY pissed at North Korea's sinking of one of their naval vessels a few months back.

Article about the ship, later found to have been sunk by NK torpedo:
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE62P30E20100326

[CommanderMcBragg]

Bring it on!

[PakiDan]

:lol I like how you always jump in the middle of issues like your the expert on the subject.

You are the expert on a lot of subjects it seems.

Whaaat? Manny is THE Oracle of all things. The omnipotent one.... the knower of all things... the wisest of the wise! The bringer of knowledge and wisdom... the lone voice of reason in a mad, mad world..... bwahahahahahaha! :lol

[MannyIsGod]

South was conducting live-fire arty practice offshore in some disputed waters. North said that was unacceptable, and that they would do something about it.

South did it anyways, mostly because they are still HIGHLY pissed at North Korea's sinking of one of their naval vessels a few months back.

Article about the ship, later found to have been sunk by NK torpedo:
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE62P30E20100326

And? How does any of that make what I said false? You're sitting here advocating total war in that area and its beyond ridiculous. Shit like this has happened for the past 60 years there.

[MannyIsGod]

Whaaat? Manny is THE Oracle of all things. The omnipotent one.... the knower of all things... the wisest of the wise! The bringer of knowledge and wisdom... the lone voice of reason in a mad, mad world..... bwahahahahahaha! :lol

You're not the first butthurt poster to post something like this. Its not really that I'm that smart, its that some of you are just that dumb. In any event, when I post something you should prove me wrong instead of crying like such a butthurt little bitch.

[The Reckoning]

all of korea would be gone. itd be bikini isle. millions would die, no doubt.

[MannyIsGod]

all of korea would be gone. itd be bikini isle. millions would die, no doubt.

No shit. But Soul Patch thinks the South should just go in and wipe them out. Because you know, thats how shit rolls in Call of Duty NORTH KOREA. Nevermind that even without nuclear weapons the North could pretty much do the same to a lot of South Korea and all of Seoul.

No one wins in a war there.

[Slydragon]

No shit. But Soul Patch thinks the South should just go in and wipe them out. Because you know, thats how shit rolls in Call of Duty NORTH KOREA. Nevermind that even without nuclear weapons the North could pretty much do the same to a lot of South Korea and all of Seoul.

No one wins in a war there.

Plus all Samsung products would no longer have customer support.

I kid I kid, but seriously something has to be done. The north was doing small stupid shit and got away with it and then kept doing more riskier shit and finally this crap, they seem to think they are untouchable. At some point shit has to be done and I know it will not end well but its heading that way sooner or later.

[The Gemini Method]

I must say, I don't know much about Kim Jong's son...is he cut from the same cloth or is he more open to changing the North Korean mindset?

[Soul_Patch]

No shit. But Soul Patch thinks the South should just go in and wipe them out. Because you know, thats how shit rolls in Call of Duty NORTH KOREA. Nevermind that even without nuclear weapons the North could pretty much do the same to a lot of South Korea and all of Seoul.

No one wins in a war there.


How is Handy Manny not in charge of our military strategy? What a bright military mind wasted on being the spurstalk know it all.


I'm guessing if Mexico started shelling South Texas you would advocate what? Just ducking and asking them to stop?

[MannyIsGod]

Plus all Samsung products would no longer have customer support.

I kid I kid, but seriously something has to be done. The north was doing small stupid shit and got away with it and then kept doing more riskier shit and finally this crap, they seem to think they are untouchable. At some point shit has to be done and I know it will not end well but its heading that way sooner or later.

Thats the point. They ARE untouchable for all intents and purposes. They do shit like this ALL the time. Don't take my word for it, research the history of the region since the Korean War or ask someone who's served on the DMZ.

They've got Seoul by the balls and unless South Korea picks up its capital and moves it out of range of the NK's artillery thats not going to change very quickly.

[MannyIsGod]

How is Handy Manny not in charge of our military strategy? What a bright military mind wasted on being the spurstalk know it all.

I'm guessing if Mexico started shelling South Texas you would advocate what? Just ducking and asking them to stop?

You think the situation in North Korea can be analogous to a hypothetical US Mexico conflict that you made up in your head?

Are Mexico and the US of the same heritage? Does the US have the majority of its population in the gunsights of Mexican Artillery? Does Mexico have nuclear weapons or chemical and biological for that matter? Is Mexico supported by a country that is the only one that can rival the US?

Don't get all butt hurt because you said something completely stupid and continue to dig your hole deeper.

[MannyIsGod]

10 million people live in Seoul and its well within North Korean artillery. Without using nukes or chemical weapons that city could be destroyed in hours just by the shelling.


The top US commander in South Korea said on Wednesday that North Korea has the world's largest artillery force and could rain fire on Seoul should the communist state decide to provoke all-out conflict.
General Walter Sharp's comments came amid rising tensions on the peninsula.

Last Saturday the North's military reminded South Korea that its densely populated capital is "only 50 km away" from the border.

Sharp, commander of some 28,500 US troops in South Korea, said the North has "an old but very large military that is positioned in a very dangerous place, very close" to South Korea.

"They have a very large special operating force. It has the world's largest artillery force that is positioned as far south as possible and that can rain on Seoul today," he told local business leaders.

The North maintains 80,000 special forces and is believed to have some 13,000 artillery pieces deployed along the border, Sharp said.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.9b44fd30ac49d58176d74d296268091 7.101


SEOUL -- When the U.S. military tries to explain the difficulty of using force to stop North Korea's development of nuclear weapons, the oddly poetic phrase it turns to is the "tyranny of proximity."

The phrase, which has been in the lexicon of the U.S. forces in South Korea for years, stems from the imposing array of conventional artillery that the North Koreans have dug into the hills just north of the demilitarized zone, a mere 30 miles from this capital city of 12 million. The nightmare scenario is that if the United States opts for a more forceful approach to curb North Korea's nuclear ambitions, the communist regime would retaliate not only against the 38,000 American troops stationed in South Korea, but also against South Korea itself.

http://www.ph.ucla.edu/epi/bioter/seoulsvulnerability.html

[MannyIsGod]

I had never seen this Google feature but its pretty bad ass.

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=north+korea+artillery+seoul#sclient=psy&hl=en&tbs=tl:1&q=north+korean+attack&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=b12ed7c4762b8851

[jack sommerset]

LoL@Manny

[RandomGuy]

Thats the point. They ARE untouchable for all intents and purposes. They do shit like this ALL the time. Don't take my word for it, research the history of the region since the Korean War or ask someone who's served on the DMZ.

They've got Seoul by the balls and unless South Korea picks up its capital and moves it out of range of the NK's artillery thats not going to change very quickly.

Remember that techinically, there is still a war on in Korea. It has been, essentially, a long truce.

SK knows that the capital would likely be the first to go, and has planned accordingly.

Although there have been the odd cross-border pot shots and shootdowns of planes, this latest bit is actually the most serious violation of that ceasefire since they stopped actively shooting at each other.

[RandomGuy]

10 million people live in Seoul and its well within North Korean artillery. Without using nukes or chemical weapons that city could be destroyed in hours just by the shelling.



These people have been preparing for this for over half a century.

As you pointed out, it would be... bad, to put it mildlly.

It would cause a massive amount of damage, but US technological edge and the raw power of the SK economy relative to the North's would end it fairly quickly, within a month or so.

There is no doubt that SK would win, but it is doubtful the Chinese would be all to happy about it. The chances for the redux of the war in the 1950's would be fairly high.

That said, the Chinese would not let it get that far, and would act rather forcefully to stop any conflict.

[Soul_Patch]

You think the situation in North Korea can be analogous to a hypothetical US Mexico conflict that you made up in your head?

Are Mexico and the US of the same heritage? Does the US have the majority of its population in the gunsights of Mexican Artillery? Does Mexico have nuclear weapons or chemical and biological for that matter? Is Mexico supported by a country that is the only one that can rival the US?

Don't get all butt hurt because you said something completely stupid and continue to dig your hole deeper.

I should know the career student and online poker player would be the most educated about Korean politics. After spending the better part of your life in school, it only makes sense.

So what do you advocate Manny? Seriously, what is your solution to deal with military aggression? Let em keep shelling, and hopefully they get bored and stop? Let's say your family just got their home shelled and your kid was missing an arm in the hospital this afternoon. Would you just say, "oh darn that crazy guy, sorry my house was in the way of his artillery shells!"

[Soul_Patch]

These people have been preparing for this for over half a century.

As you pointed out, it would be... bad, to put it mildlly.

It would cause a massive amount of damage, but US technological edge and the raw power of the SK economy relative to the North's would end it fairly quickly, within a month or so.

There is no doubt that SK would win, but it is doubtful the Chinese would be all to happy about it. The chances for the redux of the war in the 1950's would be fairly high.

That said, the Chinese would not let it get that far, and would act rather forcefully to stop any conflict.


this

[symple19]

I'll come to Manny's defense here. He's pretty much spot on. I served there while in the Army and unless you're looking for casualties in 100s of thousands, you just don't want anything to go down.

I certainly have no doubt US/ROK forces would win, but you're talking about the largest conventional showdown since WW2, and probably the largest amount of civilian casualties/refugees since WW2 as well. Manny said 10 million live in Seoul, well, the metro area holds approx half the population of SK, 20+ million people, all of whom would be within range of NKPA artillery.

Imagine, if you will, roughly 1.7+ million troops facing off against each other in an area about half the size of California, with double the population of Cali (when taking both NK and SK populations into consideration). It would be nothing short of cataclysmic for a full war to break out, for the peninsula as well as the region.

And yes, most of you calling for a full retaliatory strike are complete dumbasses

[PakiDan]

10 million people live in Seoul and its well within North Korean artillery. Without using nukes or chemical weapons that city could be destroyed in hours just by the shelling.



http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.9b44fd30ac49d58176d74d296268091 7.101



http://www.ph.ucla.edu/epi/bioter/seoulsvulnerability.html

Manny, you are correct... North Korea could decimate Seoul with conventional weapons in a matter of hours.... which is why I am sure EVERY contingency plan of the Korean military and of the United States accounts for this. You are sorely mistaken if you think that the geographical location of Seoul will prevent South Korea and it's allies from exploring every option on the table, including full military retaliation.

You are ignorant to think that Seoul is held at the whim of North Korea. A few well placed tactical nuclear weapons and North Korea becomes Seoul's little red headed bitch. And yes.... if Seoul is being decimated, don't think for one second that the U.S. will not deploy tactical nukes.... and they will do so in spite of China or Russia and with the full backing of the UN and NATO.

[Soul_Patch]

I'll come to Manny's defense here. He's pretty much spot on. I served there while in the Army and unless you're looking for casualties in 100s of thousands, you just don't want anything to go down.

I certainly have no doubt US/ROK forces would win, but you're talking about the largest conventional showdown since WW2, and probably the largest amount of civilian casualties/refugees since WW2 as well. Manny said 10 million live in Seoul, well, the metro area holds approx half the population of SK, 20+ million people, all of whom would be within range of NKPA artillery.

Imagine, if you will, roughly 1.7+ million troops facing off against each other in an area about half the size of California, with double the population of Cali (when taking both NK and SK populations into consideration). It would be nothing short of cataclysmic for a full war to break out, for the peninsula as well as the region.

And yes, most of you calling for a full retaliatory strike are complete dumbasses


While, i think full on retaliatory strikes are probably a bit of an overreaction (today), what exactly do you recommend when another country deliberately attacks yours? I don't doubt for a second that it would be a terrible conclusion, resulting in catastrophic amounts of lives lost...but where do you draw the line with this guy? As has been stated before, you can be certain both South Korea and the US have contingency plans in place for this, as NK has been a ticking time bomb for decades now. Im not a war hawk by any means...far from it...but when you are attacked directly, i think that is the line for me, personally.

This isn't some show of force, lets lob a few shells against a mountain side to get em scrambling. This was a shelling of a populated area that resulted in casualties. This was most definitely an unprecedented escalation, not just a routine thing.

Luckily i'm not in charge, and luckily neither is anyone here. I'm sure there are much brighter minds that will know what the right thing to do is. While i really don't want to see all out war, i think SK has ever right to bring them what they have been wanting for ages. I think their people are starting to agree as well.

[MannyIsGod]

Manny, you are correct... North Korea could decimate Seoul with conventional weapons in a matter of hours.... which is why I am sure EVERY contingency plan of the Korean military and of the United States accounts for this. You are sorely mistaken if you think that the geographical location of Seoul will prevent South Korea and it's allies from exploring every option on the table, including full military retaliation.

You are ignorant to think that Seoul is held at the whim of North Korea. A few well placed tactical nuclear weapons and North Korea becomes Seoul's little red headed bitch. And yes.... if Seoul is being decimated, don't think for one second that the U.S. will not deploy tactical nukes.... and they will do so in spite of China or Russia and with the full backing of the UN and NATO.



Why the fuck would the US use nuclear weapons that close to China and Japan and Russia? You're out of your god damn mind.

Of course Seoul is held at the whim of North Korea. North Korea is the one fucking with South Korea constantly and yet there hasn't been war because of this. Seoul is held hostage. The fact that North Korea would eventually lose won't be much comfort to the millions who would die in Seoul.

Your nuclear weapon talk is so beyond ridiculous. This is a bit of an aside, but its no wonder that the United States gets into so much trouble that it itself causes when half our nation's politics are decided by people with views such as yourself. Sure, lets go nuke North Korea when it would give us absolutely no military benefit, cause incredible loss of civilian life, cause fallout over many nations, and raise nuclear tensions around 2 of the largest and most powerful nations in the world.

Amazingly ridiculous.

[MannyIsGod]

I'll come to Manny's defense here. He's pretty much spot on. I served there while in the Army and unless you're looking for casualties in 100s of thousands, you just don't want anything to go down.

I certainly have no doubt US/ROK forces would win, but you're talking about the largest conventional showdown since WW2, and probably the largest amount of civilian casualties/refugees since WW2 as well. Manny said 10 million live in Seoul, well, the metro area holds approx half the population of SK, 20+ million people, all of whom would be within range of NKPA artillery.

Imagine, if you will, roughly 1.7+ million troops facing off against each other in an area about half the size of California, with double the population of Cali (when taking both NK and SK populations into consideration). It would be nothing short of cataclysmic for a full war to break out, for the peninsula as well as the region.

And yes, most of you calling for a full retaliatory strike are complete dumbasses

Thank You.

[MannyIsGod]

I should know the career student and online poker player would be the most educated about Korean politics. After spending the better part of your life in school, it only makes sense.

Really you should have pulled out the you look like a monkey smack, too. People like you get so bent out of shape when I know something and you're wrong about it. I'm sure that part of that is in my delivery because I am quite an asshole but I'd go ahead and assume that most of it is just how raw it burns you that you're wrong and I'm right. Every time someone goes to the "know it all" card on me God gives an angel its wings.
:toast



So what do you advocate Manny? Seriously, what is your solution to deal with military aggression? Let em keep shelling, and hopefully they get bored and stop? Let's say your family just got their home shelled and your kid was missing an arm in the hospital this afternoon. Would you just say, "oh darn that crazy guy, sorry my house was in the way of his artillery shells!"

Should we let the victims of the attack decide what to do or should be actually be pragmatic and let cooler heads decide? Since when is it a good idea to base the decisions governing a country going into war based upon those under extreme emotional distress.

I never advocated that South Korea be a bitch and just let North Korea walk all over them. I just pointed out that you saying they should wipe them out was incredibly ridiculous and ignorant of the situation there.

I don't know what should be done, but I know its not all out war. Its not there yet. I for one don't want my country getting dragged into another war halfway around the world.

[Soul_Patch]

Really you should have pulled out the you look like a monkey smack, too. People like you get so bent out of shape when I know something and you're wrong about it. I'm sure that part of that is in my delivery because I am quite an asshole but I'd go ahead and assume that most of it is just how raw it burns you that you're wrong and I'm right. Every time someone goes to the "know it all" card on me God gives an angel its wings.
:toast

You really think a lot of yourself. At least you got that going for you. :toast

Edit: And for the record, i never said i was right, i said i think it is time someone removed mr. long dong il from power, and this was as close to an open invitation as one can get. I honestly dont think either one of us is right, right now...its a very sticky situation, which is why it has been going on for 50 years....

It is not my fault that you get so butt hurt and confrontational about every single thing you have a POV on and decided to act the fool before you opened your mouth. Every post i see from you over the years is pushing your POV while trying to belittle everyone elses, its pretty silly, considering your age and education...but whatever, its the internet right?

[The Reckoning]

honestly, in a situation like this (threat of total annihilation), the best thing to do is remain pacifists and try to not give the North Koreans a reason to be aggressive. sure the leaders are insane as shit, but in the end, especially in the time of government change, its about winning the hearts of the people. retaliating against them with force only gives the North Koreans more of an incentive to side with their leaders.

all of Korea is highly nationalistic. if the South Koreans treat the North Koreans like family, neither side will want to fight each other.

[MannyIsGod]

When I know I'm right I don't shy away from it. I also don't shy away from asking questions when I don't know something. Jekka can confirm that as I am constantly asking her questions many people would consider obvious or simple but I have little to no knowledge on. In all honesty I do believe I know more than most people on a wide area of knowledge but I never feel I know it all. I do have a very very curious nature which drives me looking for knowledge on a lot of different and varying subjects constantly.

[rascal]

Manny, you are correct... North Korea could decimate Seoul with conventional weapons in a matter of hours.... which is why I am sure EVERY contingency plan of the Korean military and of the United States accounts for this. You are sorely mistaken if you think that the geographical location of Seoul will prevent South Korea and it's allies from exploring every option on the table, including full military retaliation.

You are ignorant to think that Seoul is held at the whim of North Korea. A few well placed tactical nuclear weapons and North Korea becomes Seoul's little red headed bitch. And yes.... if Seoul is being decimated, don't think for one second that the U.S. will not deploy tactical nukes.... and they will do so in spite of China or Russia and with the full backing of the UN and NATO.

Don't be so sure the US will nuke NK and not care about China and Russia.

[MannyIsGod]

Don't be so sure the US will nuke NK and not care about China and Russia.

Or Japan. We have extremely important bases in Japan that would be needed for any action in Korea and I guarantee you that the moment a nuclear weapon went off in Korea they'd cut us off from those bases. For obvious reasons, there is no single nation on this planet with a greater hatred of nuclear weapons.

[Soul_Patch]

... In all honesty I do believe I know more than most people on a wide area of knowledge but I never feel I know it all.


:lmao

Manny, i don't doubt your a pretty smart guy, But c'mon man, really?

Is this a bit or something? Am i being trolled?

[Soul_Patch]

Let's equate (for argument sake) the USA to S Korea and Canada to N Korea. Let's assume all things are equal, as in the USA is in the same predicament as S Korea and vice versa.


Lets say you are living in Niagra Falls NY, and one day the crazy country to your north shells the shit out of Niagra falls, kills a few random people, destroys a lot of shit, etc...

How do you expect the US to react? How do you expect the world to react?


You spoke earlier of asking questions because you are curious...i am asking this because i am curious to see what you (manny) think about this scenario, as well as others.

[The Reckoning]

dont fuck with China or their interests. the UN learned that the hard way after crossing into Chinese territory during the Korean War. if they wouldnt have done that, this wouldnt be an issue today.

[Soul_Patch]

dont fuck with China or their interests. the UN learned that the hard way after crossing into Chinese territory during the Korean War. if they wouldnt have done that, this wouldnt be an issue today.

We also owe China a metric shit ton of money. I really doubt China wants to get involved with fucking up their biggest debtor.

[Slomo]

We also owe China a metric shit ton of money. I really doubt China wants to get involved with fucking up their biggest debtor.

You got it backwards.

[mouse]

I'll come to Soul_Patch's defense here. He's pretty much spot on.

[MannyIsGod]

You really think a lot of yourself. At least you got that going for you. :toast

Edit: And for the record, i never said i was right, i said i think it is time someone removed mr. long dong il from power, and this was as close to an open invitation as one can get. I honestly dont think either one of us is right, right now...its a very sticky situation, which is why it has been going on for 50 years....

It is not my fault that you get so butt hurt and confrontational about every single thing you have a POV on and decided to act the fool before you opened your mouth. Every post i see from you over the years is pushing your POV while trying to belittle everyone elses, its pretty silly, considering your age and education...but whatever, its the internet right?

You shouldn't try to rewrite history on a message board. I was butt hurt? LOL!

I said you showed no knowledge of how things work there. How is that butt hurt? The only other thing I said that was remotely confrontational was asking you if you had looked at a map.

YOU then took it personal as shit as went to the know it all card. Trying to turn this around on me is hilarious as shit.

I won't deny that I belittled the point of view that asks for a full scale war on the Korean peninsula. That point of view is nothing short of moronic.

[The Reckoning]

honestly, i think China's a little more concerned with the sovereignty of Asia than economics.

theyve also created an alternative market cycling US bonds, so all money being paid isn't straight to China...but that's a different topic.

[Soul_Patch]

You shouldn't try to rewrite history on a message board. I was butt hurt? LOL!

I said you showed no knowledge of how things work there. How is that butt hurt? The only other thing I said that was remotely confrontational was asking you if you had looked at a map.

YOU then took it personal as shit as went to the know it all card. Trying to turn this around on me is hilarious as shit.

I won't deny that I belittled the point of view that asks for a full scale war on the Korean peninsula. That point of view is nothing short of moronic.

Right, you werent condescending or personal at all...whatever bro, its all good. Get over it.

[Soul_Patch]

You got it backwards.

How so? China owes the US money? im not sure that has ever been the case, definitely not now.

[Soul_Patch]

how did manny do in the most pretentious spurstalk poster poll tournament i forget

He knows more than most people about all things...how is that pretentious??

:whine

[MannyIsGod]

Let's equate (for argument sake) the USA to S Korea and Canada to N Korea. Let's assume all things are equal, as in the USA is in the same predicament as S Korea and vice versa.


Lets say you are living in Niagra Falls NY, and one day the crazy country to your north shells the shit out of Niagra falls, kills a few random people, destroys a lot of shit, etc...

How do you expect the US to react? How do you expect the world to react?


You spoke earlier of asking questions because you are curious...i am asking this because i am curious to see what you (manny) think about this scenario, as well as others.

So you want to make up a completely made up scenario to parallel the current situation instead of just talking about the current situation? Why not just talk about the situation that is in place and the parameters surrounding it? Because it doesn't induce the same type of emotional response that an attack on our country would?

Simply put you can't draw up a scenario here because it requires almost everything to be different. The dynamic in place is unique and there is nothing else like it around the world. Canada and America aren't confined to the same land space, they don't share a common heritage, and the majority of the United State's population isn't under threat from Canada.

In any tense situation where nations are on the brink of war you have to take into account so many factors. You could come up with a situation that has the same factors or you could simply talk about the factors in place in Korea instead.

You have to consider the following for starters

- Civilian Casualties
- End Game
- Economic and Industrial costs
- International Reaction

In other words, you basically have to decide what the benefits and the detractions are to whatever you decide. This isn't as simple as if a guy spits in your girls face at a bar. You don't just kick a guys ass and wipe your hands of the situation.

Any war in Korea is going to wreck extreme devastation and leave millions dead. You're going to have millions of refugees pouring into China from the North and you're going to have to deal with how China feels and how Russia and Japan feel to lesser extents. Its going to drive up the cost of oil dramatically which is going to cost the entire world.

[MannyIsGod]

how did manny do in the most pretentious spurstalk poster poll tournament i forget

I hope I won.

[MannyIsGod]

He knows more than most people about all things...how is that pretentious??

:whine

You should reread what you quoted. It might save me from having to be condescending and having you get butt hurt again.

[MannyIsGod]

Right, you werent condescending or personal at all...whatever bro, its all good. Get over it.

:lol

Who needs to get over it? :( :( :(

Manny was condescending at me. :( :( :(

You want an apology man?

I'm sorry.

Better?

[Slomo]

How so? China owes the US money? im not sure that has ever been the case, definitely not now.

The debtor is the one with the problem and not the other way around.

What do you think would happen if the US refused to repay its debt?

How successful has the US (or the world for that matter) been in any of its negotiations with China? How about the discussion on the undervalued Yen? It's unfair and it's hurting everybody, yet I don't see much repercussions for the Chinese...

[mouse]

Slomo and Manny seem to be tough on China but the truth is both of them have been seen at Wall-mart several times.

[Sarah Palin]

Just remember this in two years Manny.......who would you want answering that red phone in the middle of the night?.....You betcha!!!

[scott]

Just send in the Portugese National Futbol Team. NK will surrender in less than 90 minutes.

[Sisk]

They goddamned well better.

U.S. troops are spread too thin and have too little equipment as it is.

That doesn't matter. We wouldn't sit there and let the South Koreans die. No way.

[Nathan Explosion]

While not a simple matter, I think that South Korea should be calm but direct. Address North Korea in front of the UN, turn to China and Russia and let them know that this was an act of aggression that will not go unpunished if China and Russia don't step in and slap the crap out of their little step child NK.

Make sure that those countries understand that if nothing is to be done, then the bully will be dealt with. Again, this is a delicate situation, but I'd tell North Korea that the next time some act of aggression happens, there will be serious consequences. If said aggression happens again, bomb the shit out of the nuclear plant the North said they wouldn't build.

Finally, I'd let the North know that any retaliation for the bombing will result in the North Korean capital being wiped from the face of the Earth (as I'm sure Seoul will be the targetof the North's aggression).

Both countries are still at war with each other, and I'm sure the South Korean government has contingency plans for its capitol.

First and foremost (and most importantly) use diplomacy with the North's allies to try and diffuse the situation. If the North still acts up despite China's request to stop (should they make one) the South will have shown that the North is completely out of control and must be dealt with in a swift manner to protect itself and others from a total nutjob.

As much as I DON'T advocate violence, turning the other cheek doesn't always work. Europe turned the other cheek to Hitler and we all know that story. The North won't do what Germany did, but diplomacy doesn't always work with a bully. Sometimes the bully needs to be knocked on his ass, as horrible as that sounds because war is horror.

[Slomo]

Slomo and Manny seem to be tough on China but the truth is both of them have been seen at Wall-mart several times.

Hey! :flipoff

I do love Walmarts :lol

[Clandestino]

LOL... Manny is the resident expert... cracks me up! He is a meteorologist, Dr, political expert, war strategist, poker pro...hell he can even tell your wife how to properly change her tampon or your dog how to prevent shit from sticking to its fur when he takes a dump... all knowledge he gained from reading about it on the internet!!!

[z0sa]

Fuck North Korea. If we weren't already 170,000 deep on that side of the globe, I'd support warring for our democratic Korean brothers. Plus we must preserve the state of StarCraft.

[BlackSwordsMan]

LOL... Manny is the resident expert... cracks me up! He is a meteorologist, Dr, political expert, war strategist, poker pro...hell he can even tell your wife how to properly change her tampon or your dog how to prevent shit from sticking to its fur when he takes a dump... all knowledge he gained from reading about it on the internet!!!

He also does taxes.

[Soul_Patch]

LOL... Manny is the resident expert... cracks me up! He is a meteorologist, Dr, political expert, war strategist, poker pro...hell he can even tell your wife how to properly change her tampon or your dog how to prevent shit from sticking to its fur when he takes a dump... all knowledge he gained from reading about it on the internet!!!

:lmao

[Soul_Patch]

South Korea Lee's under pressure over North attack

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6AN2E120101124


(Reuters) - South Korean President Lee Myung-bak's government was criticized at home on Wednesday for its slow response to a North Korean attack, with lawmakers and media saying it was now time to get tough.

Lee has vowed a firm response to Tuesday's attack by North Korea, but Seoul too has no desire for a serious conflict. While North Korea would certainly lose any war, it would be able to do enormous damage to the South with its vast artillery.

Lee won office in 2008 vowing to take an uncompromising stand with neighboring North Korea, but for the second time this year his conservative government is being criticized for being indecisive in responding to crises involving the mercurial state.

In March, Lee's government was criticized for responding too slowly to the sinking of a South Korean warship in the same area. Forty-six sailors were killed in the attack the South blamed on the North. Pyongyang said it wasn't to blame.

A day after the North fired a barrage of artillery shells at the island of Yeonpyeong, killing two civilians and soldiers, members of Lee's own party and opposition lawmakers accused the South's military of being too weak and responding too late.

In a fiery parliamentary hearing, Defense Minister Kim Tae-young was grilled by lawmakers who said the government should have taken quicker and stronger retaliatory measures against the North's provocation.

"I am sorry that the government has not carried out ruthless bombing through jet fighters during the North's second round of shelling," Kim Jang-soo, a lawmaker of the ruling Grand National Party and a former defense minister, was quoted as saying by Yonhap news agency during the national defense committee.

"Why did we shoot only 80 shells even as the North fired 170?" asked Sim Dae-pyung, chairman of the minor opposition People First Party.

Kim explained the current operational manual calls for retaliatory attacks of up to double the firepower employed by the enemy and using the equivalent types of weapons to those used by the enemy.

Lawmakers also quizzed Kim about the apparent lack of intelligence about the attack. He replied that the North had sent warning statements concerning the South's test firing exercises in the area, but these threats mirrored previous rhetoric from Pyongyang which had amounted to nothing.

The small conservative Liberty Forward Party hit out at the South's military for responding too slowly, demanding to know why it took some 15 minutes to respond to the North Korean shelling.

A party source told Yonhap that "when an enemy attacks, battle preparations have to be made within five minutes but after North Korea's first shots the South Korean army responded with fire after 15 minutes."

"After North Korea's second attack also, it took 15 minutes to respond with fire."

Editorials in local media also said it was now time for retaliation.

The JoongAng Daily urged Lee to send a clear message to the North, saying the North's provocation had "gone beyond our imagination."

Fact is, if you deliberately attack another sovereign nation, kill its civilians and military, that is an act of war and must be responded to.

[CubanMustGo]

Fact is, if your opponent has an army many times the size of yours (standing army: 1 million; reserves, 8 million), thousands of tanks and artillery units, nuclear weapons, and is massed on a border less than 100 miles away from your capitol, you don't act rashly.

[Soul_Patch]

Fact is, if your opponent has an army many times the size of yours (standing army: 1 million; reserves, 8 million), thousands of tanks and artillery units, nuclear weapons, and is massed on a border less than 100 miles away from your capitol, you don't act rashly.


Im not saying act rashly, im saying act...

[Nathan Explosion]

North Korea doesn't have nuclear weapons. They can't even develop a proper rocket to deliver them. The North would lose.

I say use diplomacy not with the North, but with its allies. Let China know that you don't appreciate (to say the least) what the North did and will act if nothing is done. Basically, tell any ally the North has that if they don't do something about it, you will. And by doing nothing you agree with the South and any response you have towards the North.

In a diplomatic and political way of course. :)

[Nathan Explosion]

Or you could carry out some black ops shit (not the game) and have the leader assassinated. Of course, that's really a call to war, but that would definitely send a message.

Finally, fuck Walmart. It's all about Target.

[MannyIsGod]

South Korea Lee's under pressure over North attack

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6AN2E120101124



Fact is, if you deliberately attack another sovereign nation, kill its civilians and military, that is an act of war and must be responded to.

Really? Then explain to me why they haven't gone to war even though this has happened before?

[MannyIsGod]

1950s

February 1958: North Korean agents hijack a South Korean airliner to Pyongyang en route from Pusan to Seoul; 1 American pilot, 1 American passenger, 2 West German passengers, and 24 other passengers were released in early March, but 8 other passengers remained in the North.[1]
[edit]1960s

April 27, 1965: Two North Korean MiG-17s attack a United States EC-121 Warning Star reconnaissance plane above the Sea of Japan, 80 km (50 miles) from the North Korean shore. The aircraft was damaged, but managed to land at Yokota Air Base, Japan.[2][3]
January 17, 1968: In an incident known as the Blue House Raid, a 31-man detachment from the Korean People's Army secretly crosses the DMZ on a mission to kill South Korean President Park Chung-hee on January 21, nearly succeeding. The incursion was discovered after South Korean civilians confronted the North Koreans and informed the authorities. After entering Seoul disguised as South Korean soldiers, the North Koreans attempt to enter the Blue House (the official residence of the President of South Korea). The North Koreans are confronted by South Korean police and a firefight ensued. The North Koreans fled Seoul and individually attempted to cross the DMZ back to North Korea. Of the original group of 31 North Koreans, 28 were killed, one was captured, and two are unaccounted for. Additionally, 68 South Koreans were killed and 66 were wounded, the majority of whom were soldiers and police officers. Three American soldiers were also killed and three were wounded.[4]
January 23, 1968: The United States Naval ship the USS Pueblo is boarded and captured, along with its crew, by North Korean forces in the Sea of Japan, in international waters. The entire crew of 83 is captured, with the exception of one sailor killed in the initial attack on the vessel, and the vessel is taken into North Korean waters. All the captives were released on December 23 of the same year via the Bridge of No Return at the DMZ. The USS Pueblo is still in North Korean possession and is docked in Pyongyang and is on display as a museum ship.[5]
October 30, 1968: From October 30 to November 2, 120 to 130 North Korean commandos land on the northeast shore of South Korea, allegedly to wage a guerilla war against the South Korean government. A total of 110 to 113 were killed, seven were captured, and 13 escaped. Around 20 South Korean civilians, law enforcment officers, and soldiers were killed.[3][6]
March 1969: Six North Korean commandos kill a South Korean police officer near Jumunjin, Gangwon-do. Seven American soldiers are killed in a North Korean attack along the DMZ.[7]
April 1969: An EC-121, US reconnaissance plane is shot down 90 miles (140 km) east of the North Korean coast, leaving 31 dead.
November 1969: Four US soldiers are killed by North Koreans in the Demilitarized Zone.
[edit]1970s

April 1970: In Geumchon, a region of Paju south of the DMZ, a clash leaves three North Korean soldiers dead and five South Korean soldiers wounded.
June 1970: The North Korean navy seizes a broadcast vessel from the South near the Northern Limit Line. 20 crew are captured.
February 1974: Two South Korean fishing vessels are sunk and 30 crew detained by the North.
June 1976: An incursion south of the DMZ in Gangwon-do leaves three dead from the North and six from the South.
August 18, 1976: The Axe Murder Incident -- an attempt to clear brush in the Demilitarized Zone near Panmunjom ends with two US soldiers dead.
October 1979: Three North Koreans enter the eastern DMZ. One is killed.
December 1979: One US Army Soldier killed, 3 US Soldiers wounded after stumbling into a North Korean minefield in a heavy fog while patrolling DMZ. One body is recovered from the North Koreans 5 days later.
[edit]1980s

March 1980: Three North Koreans are killed while trying to cross the Han River estuary.
March 1981: Three North Koreans try to enter the South in Geumhwa-eup, Cheorwon, Gangwon-do; one is killed.
July 1981: Three North Koreans are killed trying to cross the Imjin River to the South.
November 1984: Three North Korean soldiers and one South Korean soldier die, and one American soldier is wounded during the firefight that erupted when a North Korean security detail chased a defecting Soviet citizen (Vasily Matusak) across the MDL into the southern-controlled sector of the Joint Security Area.
[edit]1990s

May 1992: Three Northern soldiers in South Korean uniforms are killed in Cheolwon, Gangwon-do; three South Korean soldiers are wounded.
May 1995: North Korean forces fire on a South Korean fishing boat, killing three.
October 1995: Two armed North Koreans are discovered at the Imjin River; one is killed.
April 1996: Several hundred armed North Korean troops cross repeatedly into the Demilitarized Zone.
May 1996: Seven Northern soldiers cross south of the Demilitarized Zone, but retreat after warning shots are fired.
May & June 1996: North Korean vessels twice cross the Northern Limit Line and have a several-hour standoff with the South Korean navy.
April 1997: Five North Korean soldiers cross the Demilitarized Zone in Cheolwon, Gangwon-do, and fire on South Korean positions.
June 1997: Three North Korean vessels cross the Northern Limit Line and attack South Korean vessels two miles (3 km) south of the line. On land, fourteen North Korean soldiers cross 70 m south of the center of the DMZ, leading to a 23-minute exchange of fire.
June 1999: A series of clashes between North and South Korean vessels take place in the Yellow Sea near the Northern Limit Line.
[edit]2000s

2001: On twelve separate occasions, North Korean vessels cross the Northern Limit Line and then retreat.
November 27, 2001: North and South Korean forces exchange fire without injuries.
June 29, 2002: Renewed naval clashes near the Northern Limit Line lead to the deaths of four South Korean sailors and the sinking of a North Korean vessel. The number of North Koreans killed is unknown.
November 16, 2002: South Korean forces fire warning shots on a Northern boat crossing the Northern Limit Line. The boat retreats. The incident is repeated on November 20.
February 19, 2003: A North Korean fighter plane crosses seven miles (11 km) south of the Northern Limit Line, and returns north after being intercepted by six South Korean planes.
March 2, 2003: Four North Korean fighter jets intercept a US reconnaissance plane over the Sea of Japan.
July 17, 2003: North and South Korean forces exchange fire at the DMZ around 6 AM. The South Korean army reports four rounds fired from the North and seventeen from the South. No injuries are reported. [8]
November 1, 2004: North Korean vessels, claiming to be in pursuit of illegal fishing craft, cross the Northern Limit Line and are fired upon by the South. The vessels retreat 3 hours later.
July 30, 2006: Several rounds are exchanged near a South Korean post in Yanggu, Gangwon.
Wikinews has related news: Korean navies exchange fire
November 10, 2009: Naval vessels from the two Koreas exchanged fire in the area of the NLL, reportedly causing serious damage to a North Korean patrol ship.[9] For more details of this incident, see Battle of Daecheong.
[edit]2010

March 26, 2010: A South Korean naval vessel, the ROKS Cheonan, was sunk by an explosion near Baengnyeong Island in the Yellow Sea. A rescue operation recovered 58 survivors but 46 sailors were lost. On May 20, 2010, a South Korean led international investigation group concluded that the sinking of the warship was in fact the result of a North Korean torpedo attack.[10][11] North Korea denied involvement.[12] The United Nations Security Council made a Presidential Statement condemning the attack but without identifying the attacker.[13]
November 23, 2010: North Korea fired artillery at South Korea's Big Yeonpyeong island in the Yellow Sea and South Korea returned fire. Two South Korean marines were killed, six were seriously wounded, and ten were treated for minor injuries.[14] [15][16]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_border_incidents_involving_North_Korea




That shit they pulled in the 60s is way worse than this and somehow war was avoided even though by your rational there should have been all out war to wipe them out. Wonder why.

[Soul_Patch]

1950s

February 1958: North Korean agents hijack a South Korean airliner to Pyongyang en route from Pusan to Seoul; 1 American pilot, 1 American passenger, 2 West German passengers, and 24 other passengers were released in early March, but 8 other passengers remained in the North.[1]
[edit]1960s

April 27, 1965: Two North Korean MiG-17s attack a United States EC-121 Warning Star reconnaissance plane above the Sea of Japan, 80 km (50 miles) from the North Korean shore. The aircraft was damaged, but managed to land at Yokota Air Base, Japan.[2][3]
January 17, 1968: In an incident known as the Blue House Raid, a 31-man detachment from the Korean People's Army secretly crosses the DMZ on a mission to kill South Korean President Park Chung-hee on January 21, nearly succeeding. The incursion was discovered after South Korean civilians confronted the North Koreans and informed the authorities. After entering Seoul disguised as South Korean soldiers, the North Koreans attempt to enter the Blue House (the official residence of the President of South Korea). The North Koreans are confronted by South Korean police and a firefight ensued. The North Koreans fled Seoul and individually attempted to cross the DMZ back to North Korea. Of the original group of 31 North Koreans, 28 were killed, one was captured, and two are unaccounted for. Additionally, 68 South Koreans were killed and 66 were wounded, the majority of whom were soldiers and police officers. Three American soldiers were also killed and three were wounded.[4]
January 23, 1968: The United States Naval ship the USS Pueblo is boarded and captured, along with its crew, by North Korean forces in the Sea of Japan, in international waters. The entire crew of 83 is captured, with the exception of one sailor killed in the initial attack on the vessel, and the vessel is taken into North Korean waters. All the captives were released on December 23 of the same year via the Bridge of No Return at the DMZ. The USS Pueblo is still in North Korean possession and is docked in Pyongyang and is on display as a museum ship.[5]
October 30, 1968: From October 30 to November 2, 120 to 130 North Korean commandos land on the northeast shore of South Korea, allegedly to wage a guerilla war against the South Korean government. A total of 110 to 113 were killed, seven were captured, and 13 escaped. Around 20 South Korean civilians, law enforcment officers, and soldiers were killed.[3][6]
March 1969: Six North Korean commandos kill a South Korean police officer near Jumunjin, Gangwon-do. Seven American soldiers are killed in a North Korean attack along the DMZ.[7]
April 1969: An EC-121, US reconnaissance plane is shot down 90 miles (140 km) east of the North Korean coast, leaving 31 dead.
November 1969: Four US soldiers are killed by North Koreans in the Demilitarized Zone.
[edit]1970s

April 1970: In Geumchon, a region of Paju south of the DMZ, a clash leaves three North Korean soldiers dead and five South Korean soldiers wounded.
June 1970: The North Korean navy seizes a broadcast vessel from the South near the Northern Limit Line. 20 crew are captured.
February 1974: Two South Korean fishing vessels are sunk and 30 crew detained by the North.
June 1976: An incursion south of the DMZ in Gangwon-do leaves three dead from the North and six from the South.
August 18, 1976: The Axe Murder Incident -- an attempt to clear brush in the Demilitarized Zone near Panmunjom ends with two US soldiers dead.
October 1979: Three North Koreans enter the eastern DMZ. One is killed.
December 1979: One US Army Soldier killed, 3 US Soldiers wounded after stumbling into a North Korean minefield in a heavy fog while patrolling DMZ. One body is recovered from the North Koreans 5 days later.
[edit]1980s

March 1980: Three North Koreans are killed while trying to cross the Han River estuary.
March 1981: Three North Koreans try to enter the South in Geumhwa-eup, Cheorwon, Gangwon-do; one is killed.
July 1981: Three North Koreans are killed trying to cross the Imjin River to the South.
November 1984: Three North Korean soldiers and one South Korean soldier die, and one American soldier is wounded during the firefight that erupted when a North Korean security detail chased a defecting Soviet citizen (Vasily Matusak) across the MDL into the southern-controlled sector of the Joint Security Area.
[edit]1990s

May 1992: Three Northern soldiers in South Korean uniforms are killed in Cheolwon, Gangwon-do; three South Korean soldiers are wounded.
May 1995: North Korean forces fire on a South Korean fishing boat, killing three.
October 1995: Two armed North Koreans are discovered at the Imjin River; one is killed.
April 1996: Several hundred armed North Korean troops cross repeatedly into the Demilitarized Zone.
May 1996: Seven Northern soldiers cross south of the Demilitarized Zone, but retreat after warning shots are fired.
May & June 1996: North Korean vessels twice cross the Northern Limit Line and have a several-hour standoff with the South Korean navy.
April 1997: Five North Korean soldiers cross the Demilitarized Zone in Cheolwon, Gangwon-do, and fire on South Korean positions.
June 1997: Three North Korean vessels cross the Northern Limit Line and attack South Korean vessels two miles (3 km) south of the line. On land, fourteen North Korean soldiers cross 70 m south of the center of the DMZ, leading to a 23-minute exchange of fire.
June 1999: A series of clashes between North and South Korean vessels take place in the Yellow Sea near the Northern Limit Line.
[edit]2000s

2001: On twelve separate occasions, North Korean vessels cross the Northern Limit Line and then retreat.
November 27, 2001: North and South Korean forces exchange fire without injuries.
June 29, 2002: Renewed naval clashes near the Northern Limit Line lead to the deaths of four South Korean sailors and the sinking of a North Korean vessel. The number of North Koreans killed is unknown.
November 16, 2002: South Korean forces fire warning shots on a Northern boat crossing the Northern Limit Line. The boat retreats. The incident is repeated on November 20.
February 19, 2003: A North Korean fighter plane crosses seven miles (11 km) south of the Northern Limit Line, and returns north after being intercepted by six South Korean planes.
March 2, 2003: Four North Korean fighter jets intercept a US reconnaissance plane over the Sea of Japan.
July 17, 2003: North and South Korean forces exchange fire at the DMZ around 6 AM. The South Korean army reports four rounds fired from the North and seventeen from the South. No injuries are reported. [8]
November 1, 2004: North Korean vessels, claiming to be in pursuit of illegal fishing craft, cross the Northern Limit Line and are fired upon by the South. The vessels retreat 3 hours later.
July 30, 2006: Several rounds are exchanged near a South Korean post in Yanggu, Gangwon.
Wikinews has related news: Korean navies exchange fire
November 10, 2009: Naval vessels from the two Koreas exchanged fire in the area of the NLL, reportedly causing serious damage to a North Korean patrol ship.[9] For more details of this incident, see Battle of Daecheong.
[edit]2010

March 26, 2010: A South Korean naval vessel, the ROKS Cheonan, was sunk by an explosion near Baengnyeong Island in the Yellow Sea. A rescue operation recovered 58 survivors but 46 sailors were lost. On May 20, 2010, a South Korean led international investigation group concluded that the sinking of the warship was in fact the result of a North Korean torpedo attack.[10][11] North Korea denied involvement.[12] The United Nations Security Council made a Presidential Statement condemning the attack but without identifying the attacker.[13]
November 23, 2010: North Korea fired artillery at South Korea's Big Yeonpyeong island in the Yellow Sea and South Korea returned fire. Two South Korean marines were killed, six were seriously wounded, and ten were treated for minor injuries.[14] [15][16]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_border_incidents_involving_North_Korea




That shit they pulled in the 60s is way worse than this and somehow war was avoided even though by your rational there should have been all out war to wipe them out. Wonder why.


Hey buddy, no one is arguing with you that it would be a pretty complicated thing, going to war with NK. As everyone else but you can see, you like to create conflict and arguments where there are none, i guess to try and make yourself look superior...whatever...

As you have just shown, sitting on your hands and hoping they leave you alone doesn't seem to be working too well...now what?

What is your side Manny? You still haven't answered this. What does Manny do if his country is constantly being attacked by a neighboring aggressive country?

Would you really blame SK if they decided enough is enough?

[MannyIsGod]

Hey buddy, no one is arguing with you that it would be a pretty complicated thing, going to war with NK. As everyone else but you can see, you like to create conflict and arguments where there are none, i guess to try and make yourself look superior...whatever...


Thats you projecting that you feel inferior. I asked you to explain the inconsistency of your stance but apparently that makes you feel bad.



As you have just shown, sitting on your hands and hoping they leave you alone doesn't seem to be working too well...now what?


I knew this was going to be your response. Actually, the point of avoiding war has been to avoid casualties in the millions. They've done that extremely successfully given the situation.



What is your side Manny? You still haven't answered this. What does Manny do if his country is constantly being attacked by a neighboring aggressive country?

Would you really blame SK if they decided enough is enough?

I don't have a side in this other than wanting Americans not to be involved in a war thousands of miles from the US because of troops leftover from the cold war.

Whats the point of retaliation? To stop the attacks, but why? Because attacks put your population in danger. One of the fundamental principles of a national government is to safeguard the governed.

If retaliation actually puts them in more danger then it seems to be rather counterproductive. As I said before, this isn't a matter of principal but pragmatism.

[mouse]

Hey! :flipoff

I do love Walmarts :lol

Like you have much of a choice? Sometimes I wonder how Americans can function everyday with their heads so far up their ass's.

You don't have to be Manny (or rocket scientist) to see how huge mega stores are putting many middle class business filing for bankruptcy. I mean we have hunting and fishing laws to keep from losing all wildlife why not make laws to insure Americans don't lose their jobs to China? I guess a salmon is worth more than a father of 3 kids.

As for the topic, those of you who disagree with our troops getting involved in south Korea then why didn't you say something before, you had as far back as s 1953 to complain. No one said anything before we put a military base there.

You don't put a condom on unless your going to f__k.

http://www.cbsnews.com/i/tim//2010/08/27/image6807969x_370x278.jpg

[scampers]

You don't put a condom on unless your going to f__k.

Crimson Tide. :tu

[symple19]

Crimson Tide. :tu

War Eagle

[TDMVPDPOY]

the sk defence minister just resigned, dont know what else was he going to do? respond and have all out war?

[SpursNextRomanEmpire]

US will just give SK more money not to do anything