Tom Delay convicted of money laundering

[EVAY]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1110/45588.html.

[Nbadan]

..and he was really convicted, not railroaded like Rangel....

[Wild Cobra]

..and he was really convicted, not railroaded like Rangel....
Rangle wasn't railroaded. He in fact was in violations of ethics.

Now this Delay case could be interesting. If I read that right, he was prosecuted in essence for not abiding by campaign law, which is unconstitutional anyway. Now I'll bet this makes it to the supreme court, and his conviction gets overturned.

[Wild Cobra]

..and he was really convicted, not railroaded like Rangel....
The person who was railroaded was Scooter Libby.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Rangle wasn't railroaded. He in fact was in violations of ethics.

Now this Delay case could be interesting. If I read that right, he was prosecuted in essence for not abiding by campaign law, which is unconstitutional anyway. Now I'll bet this makes it to the supreme court, and his conviction gets overturned.

He was convicted of money laundering-you know? Its what drug dealers do with their money.

[EVAY]

Rangle wasn't railroaded. He in fact was in violations of ethics.

Now this Delay case could be interesting. If I read that right, he was prosecuted in essence for not abiding by campaign law, which is unconstitutional anyway. Now I'll bet this makes it to the supreme court, and his conviction gets overturned.

The conviction was for money laundering. He has already asked a judge to determine his sentence. I figure he knows the judge.

[ChuckD]

The person who was railroaded was Scooter Libby.

No. He actually perjured himself. He was just sure he was going to be pardoned, but Bush threw his ass under the bus and let his Felony conviction stand by only commuting his sentence, and literally saving his ass.

[FromWayDowntown]

Now I'll bet this makes it to the supreme court, and his conviction gets overturned.

It must be nice to have one's views of the law and the judicial system wholly unmoored from any of the impediments that reality can so often impose.

[ChuckD]

It must be nice to have one's views of the law and the judicial system wholly unmoored from any of the impediments that reality can so often impose.

Reality and WC don't really mix. They're like oil and water.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Hey, scooter libby will be exonarated!! And nixon too

[TeyshaBlue]

..and he was really convicted, not railroaded like Rangel....

:lmao:lmao

[Wild Cobra]

No. He actually perjured himself. He was just sure he was going to be pardoned, but Bush threw his ass under the bus and let his Felony conviction stand by only commuting his sentence, and literally saving his ass.
Yes, I know. Valarie was known by three references. He knew her and didn't know he did, later put it together.

[Wild Cobra]

He was convicted of money laundering-you know? Its what drug dealers do with their money.
Yes, those laws were applied. I don't know the full details, but I'll bet it's like using the RICO laws against abortion protesters.

So fricking what. He went around unconstitutional campaign finance reform laws. I just smell the possibility of raising this to the next level, and yes. I could be wrong. I'm less bent up about this than jaywalkers.

[boutons_deux]

Let's Thank Ronnie Earle for Tom DeLay's Conviction

"To defeat Dick DeGuerin, DeLay's lead defense attorney, is almost akin to Sisyphus finally getting that damned rock to remain atop the mountain. DeGuerin is, after all, the guy who recently got singer-songwriter Billy Joe Shaver off the hook for pulling a gun in a barroom dispute and asking the man just past the end of the barrel, "Where do you want it?" and then firing.

Yep, DeGuerin is that good. And Texas sure loves its crafty defense lawyers who win seemingly open and shut cases as much as its outlaw country troubadours like Shaver (so much as to wink at the transgressions of the latter). They are Lone Star State folk heroes. And similar admiration for wily politicians who can bend and break election laws with brass and canniness -- even begrudging from the opposition -- is yet another proud Texas tradition."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rob-patterson/lets-thank-ronnie-earle-f_b_788459.html?view=print

[EVAY]

Let's Thank Ronnie Earle for Tom DeLay's Conviction

"To defeat Dick DeGuerin, DeLay's lead defense attorney, is almost akin to Sisyphus finally getting that damned rock to remain atop the mountain. DeGuerin is, after all, the guy who recently got singer-songwriter Billy Joe Shaver off the hook for pulling a gun in a barroom dispute and asking the man just past the end of the barrel, "Where do you want it?" and then firing.

Yep, DeGuerin is that good. And Texas sure loves its crafty defense lawyers who win seemingly open and shut cases as much as its outlaw country troubadours like Shaver (so much as to wink at the transgressions of the latter). They are Lone Star State folk heroes. And similar admiration for wily politicians who can bend and break election laws with brass and canniness -- even begrudging from the opposition -- is yet another proud Texas tradition."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rob-patterson/lets-thank-ronnie-earle-f_b_788459.html?view=print

Goof post, B-D. Earle really took it on the chin for having the audacity to actually prosecute Delay in the first place. This is, I believe, a vindication for him, and B-D, I think even you will admit that this is America at is most unbiased.

[boutons_deux]

I'm sure Delay will appeal.

The corrupted, whored, (aka elected) SCOTX will rule in Delay's favor.

Le Plus Ca Change ...

[FromWayDowntown]

I'm sure Delay will appeal.

The corrupted, whored, (aka elected) SCOTX will rule in Delay's favor.

Le Plus Ca Change ...

This one goes to the Court of Criminal Appeals, not SCOTX.

[CosmicCowboy]

Interesting. My gut feeling was this will be overturned on appeal or at worst he will get probation and a hefty fine. The jury was stacked with liberals (six Democrats, one Republican, three independent liberals and two independent conservatives, The forewoman was a self-described Greenpeace advocate and a former anthropology student) but clearly since the jury didn't hang there was enough circumstantial evidence that the decision wasn't made under pure partisan lines.

[Oh, Gee!!]

If you could appeal based on the political views of the jurors, no jury verdict would ever be secure.

[CosmicCowboy]

If you could appeal based on the political views of the jurors, no jury verdict would ever be secure.

The thing about an appeals court is that they can only look at evidence presented at the original trial. No new evidence can be seen.

At the same time, you have judges looking at the evidence and the legal briefs from the attorneys (theoretically from a neutral, legal perspective) rather than a civilian jury that can decide based on more emotional/political reasons.

I'm not saying the decision was political. I'm just saying that an appeals court may see the case differently.

[Oh, Gee!!]

It doesn't matter what the appeals court thinks of the case. They are going to give the benefit of the doubt to the jury .

[MannyIsGod]

The thing about an appeals court is that they can only look at evidence presented at the original trial. No new evidence can be seen.

At the same time, you have judges looking at the evidence and the legal briefs from the attorneys (theoretically from a neutral, legal perspective) rather than a civilian jury that can decide based on more emotional/political reasons.

I'm not saying the decision was political. I'm just saying that an appeals court may see the case differently.

Um, you're definitely saying its political, CC. There's no other reason to bring up their political views.

[CosmicCowboy]

C'mon Manny. Read the original post.


but clearly since the jury didn't hang there was enough circumstantial evidence that the decision wasn't made under pure partisan lines.

I think it would be incredibly naive to think NO partisanship was involved, but clearly there was enough circumstantial evidence to sway the republican/conservatives that were on the panel.

Ironically, even if he did "launder" corporate donations through the RNC (which took Corporate donations from his PAC and then donated privately donated money to the Texas candidates) the Supreme Court just ruled this year that Corporations can legally donate directly to the Texas candidates.

[boutons_deux]

TX criminal appeals court judges are elected, too. Plenty of chance for campaign contributors to corrupt the judges.

[ChumpDumper]

What would be the basis of appeal, CC?

[CosmicCowboy]

What would be the basis of appeal, CC?

Chump, as I understand the case all the evidence was circumstantial. I realize you can build a credible case from a chain of circumstantial evidence, but they didn't have a single eye witness testimony to actual knowledge of collusion.

I'm just saying, when they break the case down to the opposing legal briefs and the actual evidence presented without all the drama/histrionics of the jury trial that an appeals court composed of experienced judges may see the case quite differently.

[FromWayDowntown]

I think it would be incredibly naive to think NO partisanship was involved, but clearly there was enough circumstantial evidence to sway the republican/conservatives that were on the panel.

It would also be fairly naive to think that the judges who sit on Texas appellate courts, all of whom are elected in partisan elections, are going to be wholly apolitical in reviewing a verdict.

With that said, unless there's a considerable legal error in the way the trial was conducted, it is almost impossible to overturn the way that a jury resolves the facts of a case. The controlling standards of appellate review preclude the appellate court from substituting its views for the jury's. So, unless the evidence is just completely not there or unless there was some fundamental legal error in the way the trial judge handled the proceedings, the chances of reversal in Texas state appellate courts, in any criminal matter, are relatively low.

[CosmicCowboy]

it would also be fairly naive to think that the judges who sit on texas appellate courts, all of whom are elected in partisan elections, are going to be wholly apolitical in reviewing a verdict.

With that said, unless there's a considerable legal error in the way the trial was conducted, it is almost impossible to overturn the way that a jury resolves the facts of a case. The controlling standards of appellate review preclude the appellate court from substituting its views for the jury's. So, unless the evidence is just completely not there or unless there was some fundamental legal error in the way the trial judge handled the proceedings, the chances of reversal in texas state appellate courts, in any criminal matter, are relatively low.

ok...

[Oh, Gee!!]

Tom wanted a jury of his peers: rich, conservative, corrupt politicians

[Oh, Gee!!]

And I would be shocked if he gets prison time. The judge is not the normal presiding judge so he won't be worried about pleasing the Austin voters

[ElNono]

So fricking what. He went around unconstitutional campaign finance reform laws.

So fricking what? He broke the law, got caught and found guilty.
You should be proud that justice was done.

[ChumpDumper]

Wild Cobra believes in law and order.

Except for Republicans.

And Wild Cobra is not a Republican.

According to Wild Cobra.

[xrayzebra]

SA210 I see you lurking. How you been....

[Wild Cobra]

So fricking what? He broke the law, got caught and found guilty.
You should be proud that justice was done.
Am I wrong that the law he broke is unconstitutional? That is the argument I am making.

[ChumpDumper]

Am I wrong that the law he broke is unconstitutional? That is the argument I am making.Yes, you are wrong. Laws concerning money laundering are constitutional.

[RandomGuy]

The person who was railroaded was Scooter Libby.

Exactly.

We all know that Cheney did it. Scooter was just the scapegoat.

[ElNono]

Am I wrong that the law he broke is unconstitutional? That is the argument I am making.

Money laundering is unconstitutional?

[Oh, Gee!!]

it depends why you do it according to WC

[Wild Cobra]

Exactly.

We all know that Cheney did it. Scooter was just the scapegoat.

LOL...

Can we agree to disagree?

Facts have it that Armitage was the leak. He didn't get prosecuted, so that make proof of the railroading in my opinion.

[Wild Cobra]

Money laundering is unconstitutional?
No, it's a law to keep people from shielding illegal practices. In this case, the campaign fiance laws (that will be stuck down at some point) are unconstitutional. I will make the argument that this is proper use of mitigating circumstances.

[ElNono]

No, it's a law to keep people from shielding illegal practices. In this case, the campaign fiance laws (that will be stuck down at some point) are unconstitutional. I will make the argument that this is proper use of mitigating circumstances.

I see. You think it's unconstitutional.

BFD. It's the law of the land and we're all subject to it. I might not agree with the Patriot Act, and it's constitutionality in part or as a whole, but that doesn't mean I can go around breaking it inconsequentially.

So the law is not unconstitutional (at least until proven otherwise) and Delay is guilty of breaking the law. There really are no mitigating circumstances.

[ChumpDumper]

LOL...

Can we agree to disagree?

Facts have it that Armitage was the leak. He didn't get prosecuted, so that make proof of the railroading in my opinion.You don't understand what were the charges in Libby's case, so there is no need for you to comment on it.

[coyotes_geek]

Good riddance. Delay is a POS and I'm glad that I had a chance to live in his district and vote against the fucker.