Heart!!!!

[Man In Black]

There are those who are afraid to take on destiny, then again...there are those that look at destiny and kick it in the nuts.

Heart...you better recognize. 8 against 5 and the Spurs on the road and what?

I said WHAT!

A Dozen Straight...FUCK YEAH!!!!
:flag:

[Obstructed_View]

I guess heart will do when the brains aren't there. 36 threes?

[boutons_deux]

Manu makes play after play after play.

He deserves the game ball.

[ducks]

lol

[spursfan1000]

Big props to Spurs tonight.

[L.I.T]

Spurs played like fuck-ups nearly the entire game. And by rights, jacking up 36 3s should equal a loss.

But, what I have been impressed with in the last two games is the Spurs ability to manufacture wins, even when they aren't playing their best. That's an ability they really haven't demonstrated in a while.

[Nathan89]

I guess heart will do when the brains aren't there. 36 threes?

26 threes was the most before this game. The only reason we took 36 is because they left the spurs wide-open. What do want them to do?

[pawe]

Motherfuckin co-signed boy!
Manu is always unbelievable and Gary Neal has cold blood running tonight to sink the clutch FTs.

[SpursRulez4eVeR]

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/2010/images/11/24/tx_jefferson-1124.jpg
" Dirty Dozen "

[ElNono]

I guess heart will do when the brains aren't there. 36 threes?

Duncan took 9 shots... 2 of those in overtime...

[ElNono]

Don't forget Neal with the clutch free throws to tie the game in regulation...

[Obstructed_View]

26 threes was the most before this game. The only reason we took 36 is because they left the spurs wide-open. What do want them to do?

Um, shoot twos instead? If you're wide open, you can take a dribble or two toward the basket. It's not like the Spurs were pounding it inside and punishing the Timberwolves for sagging.

Somewhere, Dick Motta is saying, "Got damn that's a lot of three pointers."

[Obstructed_View]

Duncan took 9 shots... 2 of those in overtime...

Clearly Tim Duncan needs to be shooting more threes.

[Blake]

I saw this thread and first thought was oooo....Barracuda....dun dun dund ududdun dudn du nuh nuhhhhhh

[Man In Black]

I saw this thread and first thought was oooo....Barracuda....dun dun dund ududdun dudn du nuh nuhhhhhh

http://www.clevelandleader.com/files/Heart_Barracuda.jpg

Not the same thing but that music in the background means that Silver & Black is coming!!!!!!!! :ihit

[KaiRMD1]

I'm just so glad to see the Spurs not giving up. Live by the three, never lose heart!

[gameFACE]

:lolThat overtime was ugly as hell!! I'm not sure I would call this heart but it was something!!

[Obstructed_View]

:lolThat overtime was ugly as hell!! I'm not sure I would call this heart but it was something!!

It's a win. You figure this is one of those shit games where you can't do anything right and you just move on and be glad it didn't end in a loss instead.

[awktalk]

Matt Bonner has very large testicles.

[lil'mo]

Couldn't decide who wanted to win this game less. I guess it was the timberwolves, but just by a hair.

[Man In Black]

If this team still had the likes of Mason, Bogans, Mahinmi, Hairston, And players like that...this team would've folded up like a foldway tent.

[NRHector]

this team is on a mission, thay have heart and killer instinct

[NRHector]

Matt Bonner has very large obstacles.fify

[Budkin]

This is a special team, you can just tell.

[BoricuaCJA]

Clearly Tim Duncan needs to be shooting more threes.
:rollin

[SequSpur]

If this team still had the likes of Mason, Bogans, Mahinmi, Hairston, And players like that...this team would've folded up like a foldway tent.

I totally a fuckin gree.

[TampaDude]

Wow...THIRTY TWO fucking 3-point attempts? We should've blown these guys out by 35 points...LOL

A win's a win, though.

[Rapper]

War spurs~

[benefactor]

Ugly, gutsy win. In the words of Iceman King Parsons...."It bes that way sometimes."

[crc21209]

This is a special team, you can just tell.

+1. I'm not too sure last year's Spurs would have won a game like this...there's just something about this team right now. They dont give up. Down 15+ points to a pretty good Chicago team at home and to come back and win is impressive. And then to do it again on the road (even against the T'Wolves) when you're shooting 1/15 from 3-pt land at one point is pretty damn impressive. UGLY win, but...a win is a win.

[ElNono]

Game Blouses...

http://burntlumpia.typepad.com/burnt_lumpia/images/2007/07/23/prince_pancakes.jpg

[gospursgojas]

Reminds me of the Championship years when they could grind out wins even when they aren't playing thier best ball.

3's weren't falling,
Tim was getting dominated by Darko,
Ime played.

Spurs still with the W

[TampaDude]

http://www.thinkgeek.com/images/products/zoom/spork.jpg

[jjktkk]

Um, shoot twos instead? If you're wide open, you can take a dribble or two toward the basket. It's not like the Spurs were pounding it inside and punishing the Timberwolves for sagging.

Somewhere, Dick Motta is saying, "Got damn that's a lot of three pointers."

if a 3-point shooter is wide open behind the 3-point line, why would he step inside and go for 2 points? Every once in awhile to throw the defense for sure, but when your programmed to shoot open 3s, its hard to pass up a 3. Throw in the fact that Pop will probably bench you if you pass open a open 3 and you have a dilema on your hands.

[EmantheSpursFan]

Speaking of Ime, how did he look on the court?

[Yorae]

He got a steal i believe. Tried to lead a fastbreak and nearly lost it. Lulz.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Don't get carried away. Its one win of many I hope. We need to keep winning the games we should, and come playoffs we'll be in the top 4 which means homecourt for the 1st round at least.

[FkLA]

He got a steal i believe. Tried to lead a fastbreak and nearly lost it. Lulz.

I fucking lol'ed at that sequence. It was like 'good job Ime' followed shortly by 'noooo Ime nooooo'. Wouldnt call it a fastbreak either he was dribbling down the court slower than Bogans.

Also last year's team had that win streak late in the season snapped by the Nets, this year's team didnt give in after being down big. Hopefully this season continues to be different to last season all the way into June.

:flag:

[Obstructed_View]

if a 3-point shooter is wide open behind the 3-point line, why would he step inside and go for 2 points? Every once in awhile to throw the defense for sure, but when your programmed to shoot open 3s, its hard to pass up a 3. Throw in the fact that Pop will probably bench you if you pass open a open 3 and you have a dilema on your hands.

I don't completely disagree with what you're saying, but there's a subtle distinction in the philosophy that sometimes goes to critical mass in a game like tonight. The most simple response is to point out that if the defense isn't even bothering to come out to the perimeter, you have to make one at some point to get them to start paying attention. The percentage for an 18 foot jumper is way higher than for a 23 foot jumper.

If you can hit a two instead of missing a three, that's two more points than you would have gotten. Hypothetically, if the Spurs take 20 of those three point attempts shots and take a two, even if they don't draw any fouls they score 16 points and win the game in regulation. They didn't get calls early and started settling for jumpers, which put them in a big hole. The lack of aggression spread to the other end of the floor and they got domintated there too. The Spurs didn't start hitting threes in the fourth quarter until they hit a few twos. Sometimes you have to see the ball go in for a while. That's how a Timberwolves team full of scrubs couldn't miss at the end of the game.

Proper offense starts by working as close to the basket as you can get for a shot. Three pointers are designed to punish defenses for trying to clog the middle. There's a difference between taking a three after you've broken down the defense and taking a three because you passed the ball to a guy standing on the perimeter. Just because there's not a defender nearby doesn't automatically make it a good shot, especially when more than one out of every three shot attempts that goes up is from outside the arc.

[itzsoweezee]

Um, shoot twos instead? If you're wide open, you can take a dribble or two toward the basket.


that would be incredibly dumb. pass up three pointers for the most inefficient shot in basketball! brilliant.

[BanditHiro]

its good that pop didn't fold the tent like he use to last year

[TXstbobcat]

That was a really fun game to go to in person and represent the spurs. The wolves had a decent size crowd there tonight. The wolves have had a few games against the spurs up here that they have played them tough since I moved to the twin cities. The spurs seem pull out those close games up here. This game was almost as exciting as the double over time game up here where Tony scored 55.

[Man In Black]

With this win against the T-Wolves the Spurs have won 13 straight against Minnesota. That ties the LAL for most consecutive wins against Minni.

[Obstructed_View]

that would be incredibly dumb. pass up three pointers for the most inefficient shot in basketball! brilliant.

The most inefficient shot in basketball is the one you aren't making. Again, your shooting percentage goes up the closer you get to the basket.

I'm having trouble believing that you're defending a strategy that resulted in an overtime win against the third worst team in the NBA. :lol

[Sean Cagney]

If this team still had the likes of Mason, Bogans, Mahinmi, Hairston, And players like that...this team would've folded up like a foldway tent.

They lose by 14 plus! Against CHI down 10 at the half they go down by 15 or so early in the 3rd and give up! They were just that last year.

[Obstructed_View]

Last year, Pop was more concerned with limiting guys' minutes. He was subbing on a schedule and stuck to it pretty religiously.

[MI21]

I don't completely disagree with what you're saying, but there's a subtle distinction in the philosophy that sometimes goes to critical mass in a game like tonight. The most simple response is to point out that if the defense isn't even bothering to come out to the perimeter, you have to make one at some point to get them to start paying attention. The percentage for an 18 foot jumper is way higher than for a 23 foot jumper.

If you can hit a two instead of missing a three, that's two more points than you would have gotten. Hypothetically, if the Spurs take 20 of those three point attempts shots and take a two, even if they don't draw any fouls they score 16 points and win the game in regulation. They didn't get calls early and started settling for jumpers, which put them in a big hole. The lack of aggression spread to the other end of the floor and they got domintated there too. The Spurs didn't start hitting threes in the fourth quarter until they hit a few twos. Sometimes you have to see the ball go in for a while. That's how a Timberwolves team full of scrubs couldn't miss at the end of the game.

Proper offense starts by working as close to the basket as you can get for a shot. Three pointers are designed to punish defenses for trying to clog the middle. There's a difference between taking a three after you've broken down the defense and taking a three because you passed the ball to a guy standing on the perimeter. Just because there's not a defender nearby doesn't automatically make it a good shot, especially when more than one out of every three shot attempts that goes up is from outside the arc.

I don't disagree with all you are saying but you are making it sound a bit simple. It is the NBA, not a rec league.

If you are open, stepping in to shoot the long 2PT shot isn't always the best option.

Players that don't take a lot of long two's are usually more efficient shooting the 3PTer as it something that is normal for them. Especially somebody like Bonner or Neal who look all at sea trying to create for themselves. I'm sure if you looked at the %'s, somebody like Bonner would shoot a much higher % on 3PTers than on jumpshots 18-22 feet. That extra time it takes to step in and take the longer two allows the defense more time to challenge. These are NBA athletes. Corey Brewer will get in your face out of nowhere if you waste time fiddling around when you are open.

Also, passing up the open 3PT shot is one of the most annoying things for a bigman. It leads to 3 in the key calls and removes offensive predictability which makes it more difficult to read the ball on offensive rebounds. Upfaking and driving around a defender that is closing out hard is a different story because teammates can see that happening and developing and adjust accordingly. Being predictable to your teammates is perhaps the most important part of an offense like the Spurs that is predicated on execution, passing, misdirection and ball movement and not sheer physical advantages.

Proper offense is about playing to your teams strengths and abusing the weak areas of the oppositions defense. I'm sure the Spurs would love to take every shot in the paint, but is just doesn't work like that. I don't think anybody can complain about the Spurs offensively this season, even with a horrendous night from behind the arc, they still dropped 110+ on the road (albeit against a weak team).

The Spurs are going to jack up a lot of 3's against LA because that is one of the main weapons in beating that frontline. They may as work on that against all teams...

[rogcl1]

I don't completely disagree with what you're saying, but there's a subtle distinction in the philosophy that sometimes goes to critical mass in a game like tonight. The most simple response is to point out that if the defense isn't even bothering to come out to the perimeter, you have to make one at some point to get them to start paying attention. The percentage for an 18 foot jumper is way higher than for a 23 foot jumper.

If you can hit a two instead of missing a three, that's two more points than you would have gotten. Hypothetically, if the Spurs take 20 of those three point attempts shots and take a two, even if they don't draw any fouls they score 16 points and win the game in regulation. They didn't get calls early and started settling for jumpers, which put them in a big hole. The lack of aggression spread to the other end of the floor and they got domintated there too. The Spurs didn't start hitting threes in the fourth quarter until they hit a few twos. Sometimes you have to see the ball go in for a while. That's how a Timberwolves team full of scrubs couldn't miss at the end of the game.

Proper offense starts by working as close to the basket as you can get for a shot. Three pointers are designed to punish defenses for trying to clog the middle. There's a difference between taking a three after you've broken down the defense and taking a three because you passed the ball to a guy standing on the perimeter. Just because there's not a defender nearby doesn't automatically make it a good shot, especially when more than one out of every three shot attempts that goes up is from outside the arc.

This was kinda long for me since I just got back from Gruene Hall, but what caught my eye was a rule I had when I was coaching. Big Guys stay close to the basket. (Of course none of my big guys could really shoot from the outside.)I think you made a reference to that sort of philosophy. Absolutely , long term , consistent success works from inside out .The Spurs used to do it with the likes of Robinson and then Duncan but , now the penetration of the guards and forwards are providing the inside out effect . It has to be that way and it appears the Spurs are adjusting well from the post up inside out to the penetrate and dish inside out.

[spurs10]

There are those who are afraid to take on destiny, then again...there are those that look at destiny and kick it in the nuts.

Heart...you better recognize. 8 against 5 and the Spurs on the road and what?

I said WHAT!

A Dozen Straight...FUCK YEAH!!!!
:flag: Hell Yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Drachen]

if a 3-point shooter is wide open behind the 3-point line, why would he step inside and go for 2 points? Every once in awhile to throw the defense for sure, but when your programmed to shoot open 3s, its hard to pass up a 3. Throw in the fact that Pop will probably bench you if you pass open a open 3 and you have a dilema on your hands.

additionally, a long two is the worst shot in the game, the expected return is far lower than a three pointer.

[Obstructed_View]

I don't disagree with all you are saying but you are making it sound a bit simple. It is the NBA, not a rec league.
Basketball is a simple game. It's no different in the rec league or the NBA. The ball needs to go into the basket in order for you to get points. Human psychology doesn't change at any level. Basketball coaches at every level will tell you that seeing the ball go in can get you out of a slump, and taking a higher percentage shot is always a better option if you're not hitting.


If you are open, stepping in to shoot the long 2PT shot isn't always the best option.
I agree. The Spurs took 32. Manu attempted 10 by himself, many of them step-backs. I'm not saying they should have taken 32 long twos. At the same time, I'm sure you can't possibly defend that many three point shots, open or not.


Players that don't take a lot of long two's are usually more efficient shooting the 3PTer as it something that is normal for them. Especially somebody like Bonner or Neal who look all at sea trying to create for themselves. I'm sure if you looked at the %'s, somebody like Bonner would shoot a much higher % on 3PTers than on jumpshots 18-22 feet. That extra time it takes to step in and take the longer two allows the defense more time to challenge. These are NBA athletes. Corey Brewer will get in your face out of nowhere if you waste time fiddling around when you are open.
Probably true. See my point above about Manu shooting a third of the Spurs' three point attempts. You and I both know he was settling for those far too often, and that spread to the rest of the team. If Corey Brewer isn't even bothering to look your direction when you're standing outside the arc, then bricking five more isn't going to get him to come out to you. You have to start making them before he's going to stay at home. The whole goal is to spread the floor, right?


Also, passing up the open 3PT shot is one of the most annoying things for a bigman. It leads to 3 in the key calls and removes offensive predictability which makes it more difficult to read the ball on offensive rebounds. Upfaking and driving around a defender that is closing out hard is a different story because teammates can see that happening and developing and adjust accordingly. Being predictable to your teammates is perhaps the most important part of an offense like the Spurs that is predicated on execution, passing, misdirection and ball movement and not sheer physical advantages.
The Spurs have a big man on the perimeter shooting those threes much of the time, and Manu's teammates are more likely to expect him to try to get to the basket instead of stepping back and jacking up yet another three. Misdirection, passing and ball movement don't really mean much if it's not working to get a shot closer to the basket the overwhelming majority of the time. Again, one out of every three shot attempts the Spurs had was a three pointer.


Proper offense is about playing to your teams strengths and abusing the weak areas of the oppositions defense. I'm sure the Spurs would love to take every shot in the paint, but is just doesn't work like that. I don't think anybody can complain about the Spurs offensively this season, even with a horrendous night from behind the arc, they still dropped 110+ on the road (albeit against a weak team).
No team wins consistently relying on jumpers, let alone three point jumpers. No team has ever won a title that way, and it's not likely that one ever will. What that many long range attempts will get you is a double-digit defecit to a last-place team. Nobody is suggesting the Spurs take every shot in the paint, but if the Spurs go forward thinking this is anything but a lesson in what NOT to do, they're going to be in trouble.


The Spurs are going to jack up a lot of 3's against LA because that is one of the main weapons in beating that frontline. They may as work on that against all teams...
Yeah, I suppose, if you've had your fill of winning. Becoming the early 90s Mavericks would be one certain way to avoid the Lakers.

You can't beat size with anything but size, unless your hope is that the team with size starts relying on outside shots too.

[Man In Black]

My only critique of the 3 point shot vs a long 2 is the spacing issue it creates. That 6-36 inch spacing a guy takes to make it a shorter shot also makes it easier for the defender to cover more area. In essence, he doesn't have to commit one way or the other and can actually area guard more effectively as opposed to what Pop wants, have that defender commit. We saw it time and again in last year's playoffs when RJ wasn't able to shoot the 3 from the corners. He would step in, as some have suggested, and we would watch defenders collapse on him and yet, still have time to defend when the ball would rotate out. It was because SPACING wasn't at maximal distance.

[Obstructed_View]

additionally, a long two is the worst shot in the game, the expected return is far lower than a three pointer.

When you're in a shooting slump, you need to make a basket. The worst shot in the game is the one that doesn't go in and doesn't help you to make the next one.

[slayermin]

I saw something special tonight. I don't know if it means anything but that was a great game.

[itzsoweezee]

The most inefficient shot in basketball is the one you aren't making. Again, your shooting percentage goes up the closer you get to the basket.

I'm having trouble believing that you're defending a strategy that resulted in an overtime win against the third worst team in the NBA. :lol


Uh, you do understand that a 3 point field goal is worth more than a 2 point field goal, right? Simple arithmetic makes is crystal clear that taking a slightly higher percentage 2 pointer is nowhere near as good as taking a 3 pointer. Think about it for a second, maybe it'll come to you.

[Obstructed_View]

Uh, you do understand that a 3 point field goal is worth more than a 2 point field goal, right? Simple arithmetic makes is crystal clear that taking a slightly higher percentage 2 pointer is nowhere near as good as taking a 3 pointer. Think about it for a second, maybe it'll come to you.

Uh, you do understand that a missed 3 point field goal is worth the exact number of points as dribbling the ball off your foot out of bounds, but without the long rebound by the opponent, right? :lol You cannot possibly be defending the practice of settling for outside jumpshots, no matter the fools-gold promised by 50 percent more potential points.

Funny how the percentage of threes went up when the Spurs started to hit some twos in the second half, where in the second quarter especially they were either getting layups or missed three attempts. That's why there's value in guys like Antoine Carr and Doc Rivers and Glenn Robinson and Antonio McDyess and Tony Parker who can hit a midrange jumper at a reliable rate. It settles a team down when they're in a shooting funk.

[Drachen]

When you're in a shooting slump, you need to make a basket. The worst shot in the game is the one that doesn't go in and doesn't help you to make the next one.

I understand what you are trying to say here, but if we shot every shot from three and hit them at the rate of our three point shooting (a considerably bad 31.3 %), we would have scored more than we ended up scoring by mixing some twos at a higher percentage. You really have to be shooting historically bad at 3 pointers for it to make sense to step in to take a long two. Over the game, the expected point value is far lower for the long two than the three.

[SenorSpur]

Don't forget Neal with the clutch free throws to tie the game in regulation...

Neal > Mason

[Drachen]

Basically what it boils down to is you do NOT pass up an open three for an open long two. If you are hitting 30% of your threes (admittedly bad), over 100 shots, you would have to hit 45% of your long twos (admittedly pretty good) in order to equal the same amount of points. You pass up wide open threes for two reasons: to mix it up and not be predictable and for much closer and higher percentage shots (i.e. 50%+)

p.s. also so you can draw more fouls and get more freebies which are generally much higher percentage shots as well.

[EricB]

Shooting that many threes is a very rare game.

Its usually followed by an 8 threes attempted game.

[Obstructed_View]

I understand what you are trying to say here, but if we shot every shot from three and hit them at the rate of our three point shooting (a considerably bad 31.3 %), we would have scored more than we ended up scoring by mixing some twos at a higher percentage. You really have to be shooting historically bad at 3 pointers for it to make sense to step in to take a long two. Over the game, the expected point value is far lower for the long two than the three.

They were 1-16 from three point range. I don't know how much worse you have to be to qualify as "historically bad". Again, I haven't said that the Spurs should have abandoned three point shots altogether, but when you take that many, it's a near-certainty that many of them are poor shot selection, and mixing in a few twos just to get the ball going through the hoop is a good idea.

Someone talked about the Spurs putting up so many points on Minnesota, when in truth it took overtime for them to get to their average against a really bad team.

[TampaDude]

They were 1-16 from three point range. I don't know how much worse you have to be to qualify as "historically bad". Again, I haven't said that the Spurs should have abandoned three point shots altogether, but when you take that many, it's a near-certainty that many of them are poor shot selection, and mixing in a few twos just to get the ball going through the hoop is a good idea.

Someone talked about the Spurs putting up so many points on Minnesota, when in truth it took overtime for them to get to their average against a really bad team.

Yup...but in the end, the Spurs WON. That's all that matters.

[Obstructed_View]

Yup...but in the end, the Spurs WON. That's all that matters.

Agreed. It's a whole lot more fun to pick at their performance after a win, too. :toast

[Leonard Curse]

i mean its crazy guys !!!! were all on cloud 9 here to see our boys get half the respect they deserve. I think manu is the engine driving this team while timmy is the driver and parker is the bitch in the passenger seat!!
oh and bonner of course ...yup the ugly step child in the back seat along with grandpa(dice)bahahaha. splitters the co pilot that got left at the gas station with his annoying sidekick princess dick

[Leonard Curse]

no but seriously manu is driving this team i could almost say WILLING our team to crazy victories when we shouldnt have them. manu shows so much loyalty/heart/fearlessness/ and composure all @ the same time and is setting the tone for our new players

[SA210]

this team is on a mission, thay have heart and killer instinct

[all_heart]

Did somebody say heart?! Cuz I'm all_heart MFers! :lol

Great win streak for sure but at the end of the road, we just want a :lobt:
Having said that I hope they can squeak out a couple more wins against the Mavs and NO. It would be great for confidence and so their fans can kiss our ass!

[Obstructed_View]

Just a note: In the 4th quarter, the Mavericks were 1-3 from three point range and 5-6 on long inefficient jumpers. If they're such rotten shots, I wonder why Dirk Nowitzki has become such a dominant scorer since he stopped shooting so many threes.

[Ice009]

Just a note: In the 4th quarter, the Mavericks were 1-3 from three point range and 5-6 on long inefficient jumpers. If they're such rotten shots, I wonder why Dirk Nowitzki has become such a dominant scorer since he stopped shooting so many threes.

Well to be fair Dirk is one of the best shooters in the game, but you've still proved your point quite nicely.

I'll also add does anyone watch Kobe hit mid range jumpers? I guess someone should tell him he is wasting his time shooting those and he should be shooting threes ;).

It's absolutely idiotic taking this many threes and expecting to get anywhere.

[Ace]

Heart skipped a beat?