Is Dirk the best offensive player in the game right now?

[MavFan6488]

26.4 ppg, 0.536 fg% ..

[Giuseppe]

By early May you won't be able to drag a straight pin outta that boy's ass with a 20 mule team.

[lefty]

lolwut

[NRHector]

26.4 ppg, 0.536 fg% ..

no, but he's the best Mavericks guard

[lefty]

no, but he's the best Mavericks guard
:lol

[JamStone]

almost as good as Lamar Odom

[lefty]

He does speak german

[Nahtanoj]

no, but he's the best Mavericks guard

trudat

[Trainwreck2100]

i find his choice in women to be the mosst offensive in the nba

[endrity]

No, Kobe and Durant are. He's right behind them.

[Stump]

He's top five for sure.

[Cane]

Dirk's got a legit shot at being the best offensive player right now and unlike Kobe/Gasol and Durant/Westbrook he doesn't have a second option anywhere near close to his impact on the offensive end of the court. Pretty remarkable for a high-mileage old 7 footer to be playing like Dirk has been especially considering that he has to carry the Mavs.

[MavFan6488]

No, Kobe and Durant are. He's right behind them.
kobe 25.3ppg, 0.431 fg%, 0.308 3p%
durant 28.3ppg, 0.436 fg%, 0.290 3p%
dirk 26.4ppg, 0.536 fg%, 0.385 3p%

plus, kobes has gasol, durant has westbrook. both gasol and westbrook are top 15 in the nba in scoring..dirk has to carry his team with 42 point to a W at home against the pistons...with the opponents defense just concentrating on him mainly..

[Ghazi]

Nah, but Dirk's a beast

[Roddy Beaubois]

dirk 26.4ppg, 0.536 fg%, 0.385 3p%


shiiiiit nigga

[hitmanyr2k]

kobe 25.3ppg, 0.431 fg%, 0.308 3p%
durant 28.3ppg, 0.436 fg%, 0.290 3p%
dirk 26.4ppg, 0.536 fg%, 0.385 3p%

plus, kobes has gasol, durant has westbrook. both gasol and westbrook are top 15 in the nba in scoring..dirk has to carry his team with 42 point to a W at home against the pistons...with the opponents defense just concentrating on him mainly..

Sounds a lot like Derrick Rose at the moment (who doesn't have a true 2nd option) and his numbers aren't too shabby.

Rose - 26.3 ppg (47% fg, 33% 3pt), 8.3 assists

[Killakobe81]

Why not? he should be an early MVP favorite ...

[badfish22]

hakmjXSTtY8

[jestersmash]

It boggles my mind that people are often so nonchalant about Dirk's phenomenal FG%. It's almost like an afterthought. "Oh yeah he shoots pretty well from the field, too."

It's not even just his FG% - it's the fact that he's so damned consistent in attaining that FG%. He's not really one to have ultra efficient nights mixed with ultra poor shooting nights in a way that averages out to > 50% FG shooting.

On the contrary, Dirk's one of the most consistently efficient scorers in the game. He either has really great games or slightly less than par (for him) games. I don't remember the last time he's downright had an awful shooting night. He just doesn't have them that often.

I fear when Dirk shoots against us - every time. I think it's going in every time and it's a testament to just how steady he is.

Kobe Bryant? Kevin Durant? I don't fear them nearly as much as I fear Dirk when they take shots, because I know on any given night it's not totally unreasonable to see Kobe go 10-24 or 11-30, etc.

[Lukor]

It boggles my mind that people are often so nonchalant about Dirk's phenomenal FG%. It's almost like an afterthought. "Oh yeah he shoots pretty well from the field, too."

It's not even just his FG% - it's the fact that he's so damned consistent in attaining that FG%. He's not really one to have ultra efficient nights mixed with ultra poor shooting nights in a way that averages out to > 50% FG shooting.

On the contrary, Dirk's one of the most consistently efficient scorers in the game. He either has really great games or slightly less than par (for him) games. I don't remember the last time he's downright had an awful shooting night. He just doesn't have them that often.

I fear when Dirk shoots against us - every time. I think it's going in every time and it's a testament to just how steady he is.

Kobe Bryant? Kevin Durant? I don't fear them nearly as much as I fear Dirk when they take shots, because I know on any given night it's not totally unreasonable to see Kobe go 10-24 or 11-30, etc.

Well currently you can just double(or triple-team) him and watch the rest of the Mavs fail. This squad is desperate for a #2 option.

[LkrFan]

No. Kobe is. He just don't have to give us 30 ppg no more. His athleticism isn't what it used to be, but his jumper and post game keeps him lethal.

[Dirkgreatness]

Well currently you can just double(or triple-team) him and watch the rest of the Mavs fail. This squad is desperate for a #2 option.

Pretty much.

http://media.kentucky.com/smedia/2010/11/20/00/890-Bulls_Mavericks_Basketball.sff.embedded.prod_affil iate.79.jpg

[HarlemHeat37]

I love when Laker fans have the balls to play the "Kobe doesn't have to do as much" card..

Um, in case you haven't noticed, KOBE IS #1 IN THE NBA IN FIELD GOAL ATTEMPTS..he doesn't have to do as much, but he still goes out of his way to shoot as much as he can and control the ball as much as he can..

Despite having a stacked team, Kobe is #1 in the NBA in usage %, which is actually higher than his usage in 2006-2007:lol..I don't know why it's so tough to accept his decline..

Durant? :lol:lol:lol..

There's a great argument for Dirk..he probably is the best offensive player in the NBA..he's amazingly efficient, and he doesn't have much help from an offensive standpoint..

[Xevious]

Not that he doesn't have holes in his game, but Dirk is one of the best (if not the best) shooters in the game right now. And the fact that he's 7 feet and can shoot over the top of any defender just makes him that much more scary.

[LkrFan]

I love when Laker fans have the balls to play the "Kobe doesn't have to do as much" card..

Um, in case you haven't noticed, KOBE IS #1 IN THE NBA IN FIELD GOAL ATTEMPTS..he doesn't have to do as much, but he still goes out of his way to shoot as much as he can and control the ball as much as he can..

Despite having a stacked team, Kobe is #1 in the NBA in usage %, which is actually higher than his usage in 2006-2007:lol..I don't know why it's so tough to accept his decline..

Durant? :lol:lol:lol..

There's a great argument for Dirk..he probably is the best offensive player in the NBA..he's amazingly efficient, and he doesn't have much help from an offensive standpoint..The question is whether _irk is the best offensive player in the game right now. I say he is not. He is more efficient than Kobe (hell, nowadays who isn't - especially when he isn't near 100%? :lol), but is he better than Kobe? Hell no and it is not even close. Even _irk would admit that.

[HarlemHeat37]

I never said Dirk was a better overall player than Kobe when you consider the all-around game and playoffs and whatever..the question in the OP is asking which player is the best offensive player right now, and I said Dirk..

I responded to your argument that you always use, which is that Kobe doesn't do as much as he used to, which is why his numbers are down, which is completely false, as usual..Kobe currently has the highest usage % he has had in his career, other than 2005-2006, and he's #1 in the league in FGAs..

That argument doesn't stick..he's on the decline, obviously, he isn't even the best player on his team right now..

While Nowitzki has to carry his team's offense every night, since his #2 option is JJ Barea..

[LkrFan]

I never said Dirk was a better overall player than Kobe when you consider the all-around game and playoffs and whatever..the question in the OP is asking which player is the best offensive player right now, and I said Dirk..

I responded to your argument that you always use, which is that Kobe doesn't do as much as he used to, which is why his numbers are down, which is completely false, as usual..Kobe currently has the highest usage % he has had in his career, other than 2005-2006, and he's #1 in the league in FGAs..

That argument doesn't stick..he's on the decline, obviously, he isn't even the best player on his team right now..

While Nowitzki has to carry his team's offense every night, since his #2 option is JJ Barea..You are preaching to the choir - any Laker fan will tell you that Kobe is trying to do too much when we don't need him to.

Anyway, back on topic. _irk is more efficient than Kobe. That doesn't mean he is better offensively. Quick question: Pau has been more efficient than _irk has, except _irk scores more than he does. Is Pau a better offensive player? :toast

[jermaine]

Dirk is not the best but the most assured & effective! the boy is dam near $$$$$ everytime he got the ball in his hand. He's one of those players you hope the team dont come down an put the ball in his hands, and every shot he shoots down the strecth with the game on the line , you squeeze your ass cheeks hoping he misses!

[HarlemHeat37]

Gasol isn't more efficient than Nowitzki when you consider 3-point shooting, which you obviously should..

You can make the argument for Gasol, since his passing is levels better..however, again, Dirk doesn't have any other players on his team that can create their own offense on a consistent basis..none of them are serious threats to the opposing defense, outside of spot-up shooting, and even then..Gasol has Kobe, a top 10 player that gets more attention than he deserves nowadays, mostly by reputation(you'll see the difference by the end of the season)..even Odom creates more of his own offense than anybody on the Mavs does, especially with his hot start this season..

Nowitzki is scoring at a crazy rate, despite the lack of help..this isn't really hyperbole, the Mavs really don't have anybody that can create on a consistent basis..Butler and Terry have about 70% of their offense assisted, and they're probably the 2 best offensive players next to Nowitzki..

[frodo]

dirk is the most offensive playa anywhere, not only on the court but in his houses as well.

[Lukor]

Gasol isn't more efficient than Nowitzki when you consider 3-point shooting, which you obviously should..

You can make the argument for Gasol, since his passing is levels better..however, again, Dirk doesn't have any other players on his team that can create their own offense on a consistent basis..none of them are serious threats to the opposing defense, outside of spot-up shooting, and even then..Gasol has Kobe, a top 10 player that gets more attention than he deserves nowadays, mostly by reputation(you'll see the difference by the end of the season)..even Odom creates more of his own offense than anybody on the Mavs does, especially with his hot start this season..

Nowitzki is scoring at a crazy rate, despite the lack of help..this isn't really hyperbole, the Mavs really don't have anybody that can create on a consistent basis..Butler and Terry have about 70% of their offense assisted, and they're probably the 2 best offensive players next to Nowitzki..

Nah man we're rollin with Barea as Dirk's Robin. He's killing it with 34% fg and 14% from 3pt land this season. Not to mention his stellar defense.
About Gasol:His TS% and eFG% is lower than Dirks(mostly due to 3pointers). And his usage rate is much lower (22 vs 30). So no he's not more efficient than Dirk.

[badfish22]

Harlem with the goods.

[Gutter92]

I love when Laker fans have the balls to play the "Kobe doesn't have to do as much" card..

Um, in case you haven't noticed, KOBE IS #1 IN THE NBA IN FIELD GOAL ATTEMPTS..he doesn't have to do as much, but he still goes out of his way to shoot as much as he can and control the ball as much as he can..

Despite having a stacked team, Kobe is #1 in the NBA in usage %, which is actually higher than his usage in 2006-2007:lol..I don't know why it's so tough to accept his decline..

Durant? :lol:lol:lol..

There's a great argument for Dirk..he probably is the best offensive player in the NBA..he's amazingly efficient, and he doesn't have much help from an offensive standpoint..


Harlem, get the fuck out of here with objective stats man...:lmao You know Laker fans don't use logic when talking about Bryant..they get too emotional :rollin

[LkrFan]

_irk has a HOF PG that is a hell of a passer that can get the ball to him in his sweet spots. Could you imagine Kobe with that luxury? :wow Plus _irk is 7' so he can get his shot over anybody. That is just as good as having a legit 2nd option IMO. He balling though I wouldn't call anybody in the league better than Kobe is offensively.

On an aside, I'm sure if PJ took the handcuffs off of Pau he would be shooting 3's as well. He has that kind of range. Not sure if your point about _irk shooting 3's has much merit because Pau can do it too.

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

_irk has a HOF PG that is a hell of a passer that can get the ball to him in his sweet spots. Could you imagine Kobe with that luxury? :wow Plus _irk is 7' so he can get his shot over anybody. That is just as good as having a legit 2nd option IMO. He balling though I wouldn't call anybody in the league better than Kobe is offensively.

On an aside, I'm sure if PJ took the handcuffs off of Pau he would be shooting 3's as well. He has that kind of range. Not sure if your point about _irk shooting 3's has much merit because Pau can do it too.


_ irk?????
come up with new material boy

[HarlemHeat37]

_irk has a HOF PG that is a hell of a passer that can get the ball to him in his sweet spots. Could you imagine Kobe with that luxury? :wow Plus _irk is 7' so he can get his shot over anybody. That is just as good as having a legit 2nd option IMO. He balling though I wouldn't call anybody in the league better than Kobe is offensively.

On an aside, I'm sure if PJ took the handcuffs off of Pau he would be shooting 3's as well. He has that kind of range. Not sure if your point about _irk shooting 3's has much merit because Pau can do it too.

Ugh, this hurts my head..so do the other parts, but those 2 points in particular..

[MavFan6488]

Anyway, back on topic. _irk is more efficient than Kobe. That doesn't mean he is better offensively.
it doesn't?

high efficiency = ball goes in often.
kobe is a more spectacular player than dirk, that's for sure, he has more moves, but does that alone make him better offensively?

efficiency >>>> fancy moves.


Quick question: Pau has been more efficient than _irk has, except _irk scores more than he does. Is Pau a better offensive player? :toast
you can't compare dirks game with paus. dirk plays like a guard, pau like a true bigmen. and of course pau is more efficient, he doesn't nearly have dirks range and he has kobe bryant on his team.

[monosylab1k]

_irk

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL :lol:lol:lol :lmao:lmao:lmaoLOLOLOLOLOLOL

it's cuz he has no D, right? HOLY FUCK that shit is hilarious I've never seen that before!

[badfish22]

_irk has a HOF PG that is a hell of a passer that can get the ball to him in his sweet spots. Could you imagine Kobe with that luxury? :wow Plus _irk is 7' so he can get his shot over anybody. That is just as good as having a legit 2nd option IMO. He balling though I wouldn't call anybody in the league better than Kobe is offensively.

On an aside, I'm sure if PJ took the handcuffs off of Pau he would be shooting 3's as well. He has that kind of range. Not sure if your point about _irk shooting 3's has much merit because Pau can do it too.

sup bump

[LkrFan]

Ugh, this hurts my head..so do the other parts, but those 2 points in particular..
Jason Kidd is a good passer who knows how to get a player into position to score. _irk is 7' and plays like a guard. Because he is 7' he is too tall for every SF/PF in the L to guard him. Plus he is too quick for a regular 7 footer to guard him. All of this goes into his favor. If he has these advantages, he should score. Easily. Double team? Triple team? With Jason Kidd on your team he can get you the ball for you to go to work. Sure having a 2nd option is better, but not much given the advantages _irk has.

Kobe never played with anyone the caliber of J Kidd, yet he can still do damage. You say _irk doesn't have a legit 2nd option. Welcome to 2004-2007 for Kobe. No Shaq. No Malone. No Payton. Just Kwame, Cook, inconsistent LO, and Smush Parker. Everybody on the 2010 Mavs is better than that bunch. Shoot, until Pau showed up Kobe didn't have a legit 2nd option. Kobe's career high is 81. Pau played for Memphis when he did that.

I don't want to give the impression that I am dismissing what _irk is doing. But, IMO, Kobe is a better offensive player than he is.

[Lukor]

Jason Kidd is a good passer who knows how to get a player into position to score. _irk is 7' and plays like a guard. Because he is 7' he is too tall for every SF/PF in the L to guard him. Plus he is too quick for a regular 7 footer to guard him. All of this goes into his favor. If he has these advantages, he should score. Easily. Double team? Triple team? With Jason Kidd on your team he can get you the ball for you to go to work. Sure having a 2nd option is better, but not much given the advantages _irk has.

Kobe never played with anyone the caliber of J Kidd, yet he can still do damage. You say _irk doesn't have a legit 2nd option. Welcome to 2004-2007 for Kobe. No Shaq. No Malone. No Payton. Just Kwame, Cook, inconsistent LO, and Smush Parker. Everybody on the 2010 Mavs is better than that bunch. Shoot, until Pau showed up Kobe didn't have a legit 2nd option. Kobe's career high is 81. Pau played for Memphis when he did that.

I don't want to give the impression that I am dismissing what _irk is doing. But, IMO, Kobe is a better offensive player than he is.

Can we trade Kidd for Gasol plz?We'll even throw in JJB.

[LkrFan]

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL :lol:lol:lol :lmao:lmao:lmaoLOLOLOLOLOLOL

it's cuz he has no D, right? HOLY FUCK that shit is hilarious I've never seen that before!
Did I strike a nerve? I don't even trip when you guys say Kome, or rapist, ball hog. I'm new to this board, but I've been calling him _irk for years. He plays one side of the ball. He won't bang. He barely rebounds. He won't post up. He does nothing that a big man is supposed to do yet millions of people love him. Even Avery Johnson tried to get him to sack up. We know who Cuban chose and you guys still haven't done shit.

Laugh at that. :toast

[jason54858]

Jason Kidd is a good passer who knows how to get a player into position to score. _irk is 7' and plays like a guard. Because he is 7' he is too tall for every SF/PF in the L to guard him. Plus he is too quick for a regular 7 footer to guard him. All of this goes into his favor. If he has these advantages, he should score. Easily. Double team? Triple team? With Jason Kidd on your team he can get you the ball for you to go to work. Sure having a 2nd option is better, but not much given the advantages _irk has.

Kobe never played with anyone the caliber of J Kidd, yet he can still do damage. You say _irk doesn't have a legit 2nd option. Welcome to 2004-2007 for Kobe. No Shaq. No Malone. No Payton. Just Kwame, Cook, inconsistent LO, and Smush Parker. Everybody on the 2010 Mavs is better than that bunch. Shoot, until Pau showed up Kobe didn't have a legit 2nd option. Kobe's career high is 81. Pau played for Memphis when he did that.

I don't want to give the impression that I am dismissing what _irk is doing. But, IMO, Kobe is a better offensive player than he is.

Dude, your fucking up your whole argument using Jason Kidd as your reason Dirk has an advantage.

[diego]

the fact that my first impulse is to agree with Lkrfan shows that i must be wrong. :lol

actually though, the thing is Lkrfan makes a poor argument. clearly dirk, when you look at his numbers and his teammates, he is a great, unique scoring player. but IMO and I already know mavs fans mostly hate anyone who says this, dirk has a little bonner to his game, a little fools gold: its mostly jumpshooting and when the shot isnt there it gets ugly. Last year in the PO, he started on fire but later I remember several stretches where dirk was getting the ball and having difficulty getting a shot up, and there was no plan B, it was as if his teammates were just watching him fail. the best offensive player has to have a better repertoire. still, you have to wonder how much that is not having someone to play off of. apart from him the mavs have a bunch of good to ok role players, he is basically alone out there. maybe his defenders are right that he's doing what he can with what he has, or maybe his strength is not as valuable as it seems. Lkrfan is pushing me to the former, and I'm wondering if the mavs will ever get the right piece next to him- its definitely not jason terry

[MavFan6488]

_irk is 7' and plays like a guard. Because he is 7' he is too tall for every SF/PF in the L to guard him. Plus he is too quick for a regular 7 footer to guard him. All of this goes into his favor. If he has these advantages, he should score. Easily.
you have never watched him play have you?

easily :lol:lol:lol

have you ever seen him shoot his one-legged turn around fade-away jump shot with a hand in his face? he does that every game, multiple times. that's his signature shot. go on youtube, watch it and then judge again..

[Ace]

Kobe never played with anyone the caliber of J Kidd, yet he can still do damage. You say _irk doesn't have a legit 2nd option. Welcome to 2004-2007 for Kobe. No Shaq. No Malone. No Payton. Just Kwame, Cook, inconsistent LO, and Smush Parker. Everybody on the 2010 Mavs is better than that bunch. Shoot, until Pau showed up Kobe didn't have a legit 2nd option. Kobe's career high is 81. Pau played for Memphis when he did that.

I don't want to give the impression that I am dismissing what _irk is doing. But, IMO, Kobe is a better offensive player than he is.

I know you love your nicknames as much as you love rydin Kobe's dick but you may be equally as stupid as your love for those two. Didn't you say LO came to the Lakers and he was once a number one option, implying he didn't struggle to make that transition. Now he was inconsistent, because it fits your argument which just so happens to be your favorite dick's owner Kobe.

[jestersmash]

Dirk has a higher PER than Kobe right now of all players in the NBA. It doesn't mean he's better; it's simply another statistic to consider and it's nice because PER better encompasses one's "overall game" than looking at isolated states like PPG alone or FG% alone, etc.

Here are the top 10 players in the NBA according to PER -

1 Chris Paul, NO 14 34.4 .608 38.7 8.8 23.0 2.0 13.9 8.0 27.74 120.4 4.0
2 Pau Gasol, LAL 15 38.3 .606 17.2 7.2 21.6 10.7 22.1 16.8 26.82 131.3 4.4
3 Dwight Howard, ORL 14 33.9 .600 5.7 13.3 26.2 9.8 31.8 21.1 26.68 113.8 3.8
4 Al Horford, ATL 15 31.7 .655 19.5 7.4 19.4 9.1 25.7 17.7 25.49 105.6 3.5
5 Dirk Nowitzki, DAL 14 37.2 .620 7.5 9.7 27.3 3.8 20.9 12.9 24.80 103.4 3.4
6 Tyrus Thomas, CHA 14 22.0 .594 5.2 15.0 24.8 14.1 19.4 16.8 24.20 58.4 1.9
7 LeBron James, MIA 15 37.6 .559 24.7 12.3 30.4 1.5 14.9 8.4 24.00 113.7 3.8
8 Russell Westbrook, OKC 15 37.1 .551 25.5 12.0 29.1 4.6 11.3 8.1 23.99 108.0 3.6
9 Kobe Bryant, LAL 15 32.9 .544 15.5 9.7 32.8 3.5 15.1 9.8 23.77 97.9 3.3
10 Manu Ginobili, SA 14 33.1 .630 20.4 11.2 24.6 2.1 10.1 6.1 23.71 91.5 3.1

[Ace]

Laugh at that. :toast
Not really sure why your screen name is Laker fan when truth is your a Kome dick ryder all the way.

[jestersmash]

Also, to be fair, Kobe's true shooting percentage isn't as bad as one might initially think. Yeah, he's certainly a chucker, but he also gets to the line pretty damned often and his FT% is terrific, yielding a TS% of .544

Dirk's still more efficient shooting-wise, mind you, with a TS% of .620

[Zelophehad]

He does speak german

You are unfunny motherfucker. Please shut up.


No. Kobe is. He just don't have to give us 30 ppg no more. His athleticism isn't what it used to be, but his jumper and post game keeps him lethal.

He's been by far the Lakers third best player this year according to advanced statistics.

http://basketballvalue.com/teamplayers.php?year=2010-2011&mode=summary&sortnumber=21&sortorder=DESC&team=LAL

[MI21]

Dirk is amazing.

I just want to know when he is going to decline? He is a durable fucker as well. Just a great player.

[HarlemHeat37]

Jason Kidd is a good passer who knows how to get a player into position to score. _irk is 7' and plays like a guard. Because he is 7' he is too tall for every SF/PF in the L to guard him. Plus he is too quick for a regular 7 footer to guard him. All of this goes into his favor. If he has these advantages, he should score. Easily. Double team? Triple team? With Jason Kidd on your team he can get you the ball for you to go to work. Sure having a 2nd option is better, but not much given the advantages _irk has.

Jason Kidd hasn't been more than a role player for years now..

Kobe playing with Kidd wouldn't be impressive..Kidd's game wouldn't be the same in the triangle offense..we aren't even talking about prime Kidd here, we're talking about role player Kidd..

I also don't understand why you're listing Dirk's physical advantages over other players..obviously he wouldn't be as good if he didn't have a height advantage..the thread isn't about specific skills or anything like that, it's about which player is the best offensive player in the NBA right now, meaning, which player is the most effective..Nowitzki's physical advantages are obviously part of his effectiveness, and you can't take that away from him..


Kobe never played with anyone the caliber of J Kidd, yet he can still do damage. You say _irk doesn't have a legit 2nd option. Welcome to 2004-2007 for Kobe. No Shaq. No Malone. No Payton. Just Kwame, Cook, inconsistent LO, and Smush Parker. Everybody on the 2010 Mavs is better than that bunch. Shoot, until Pau showed up Kobe didn't have a legit 2nd option. Kobe's career high is 81. Pau played for Memphis when he did that.

I agree that prime Kobe is better than current Dirk..I don't see how that's relevant here..

[MI21]

Dirk is amazing.

I just want to know when he is going to decline? He is a durable fucker as well. Just a great player.

[Zelophehad]

Dirk is amazing.

I just want to know when he is going to decline? He is a durable fucker as well. Just a great player.

According to all of the advanced stat geeks the two biggest determinants of career length are size and shooting ability since those two don't decline as much with age, so he should be good for a few more years.

[endrity]

According to all of the advanced stat geeks the two biggest determinants of career length are size and shooting ability since those two don't decline as much with age, so he should be good for a few more years.

May I also add something here.

Dirk's shot mechanics are picture perfect. He shoots a perfect rainbow. That means that even if he can't get much of an elevation, something that some guards start to feel later on in their career, Dirk should still be an above average scorer at mid to late 30s. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to believe Dirk will still be an All-Star at 35.

[LkrFan]

I know you love your nicknames as much as you love rydin Kobe's dick but you may be equally as stupid as your love for those two. Didn't you say LO came to the Lakers and he was once a number one option, implying he didn't struggle to make that transition. Now he was inconsistent, because it fits your argument which just so happens to be your favorite dick's owner Kobe.
Yes, when LO was a Clipper he was their #1 option. He then went on to Miami to team up with DWhistle before he was the centerpiece of the Shaq trade. Because of his inconsistencies the Lakers were never really a threat because of it. Now that we have Pau, he is a 3rd option at best and he is thriving.

[Ace]

Yes, when LO was a Clipper he was their #1 option. He then went on to Miami
Point proven

[DAF86]

It boggles my mind that people are often so nonchalant about Dirk's phenomenal FG%. It's almost like an afterthought. "Oh yeah he shoots pretty well from the field, too."

It's not even just his FG% - it's the fact that he's so damned consistent in attaining that FG%. He's not really one to have ultra efficient nights mixed with ultra poor shooting nights in a way that averages out to > 50% FG shooting.

On the contrary, Dirk's one of the most consistently efficient scorers in the game. He either has really great games or slightly less than par (for him) games. I don't remember the last time he's downright had an awful shooting night. He just doesn't have them that often.

I fear when Dirk shoots against us - every time. I think it's going in every time and it's a testament to just how steady he is.

Kobe Bryant? Kevin Durant? I don't fear them nearly as much as I fear Dirk when they take shots, because I know on any given night it's not totally unreasonable to see Kobe go 10-24 or 11-30, etc.

Dirk is a career 47% shooter.

[Booharv]

LkrFan has had some pretty shitty takes in this thread.

[Ghazi]

Dirk is a career 47% shooter.

lol Manu > Dirk

[TD 21]

Dirk is amazing.

I just want to know when he is going to decline? He is a durable fucker as well. Just a great player.

Of course he is. He hasn't played a man's game his entire career, so as a result, he doesn't have the wear and tear of guys who do.

It doesn't take much to stand in the pinch post and shoot over guys 3-4 inches taller a lot of the time. That's why he can play big minutes (that and the fact that the Mavs need him to). Aside from carrying the offense, they really don't ask for anything else out of him. I know that sounds like a lot, but he's not like a guy like Wade or Ginobili, who often work hard to get their points. He get's a lot of his points relatively easily, which is a credit to him and to the league's coaches, who often put players significantly smaller on him.

Rebounding, shot blocking, banging in the post on both ends, consistently deep playoff runs, this is the type of stuff that wears players out over time...and the type of stuff Nowitzki knows nothing about.

[Ace]

LkrFan has had some pretty shitty takes in this thread.

Story of his life...

[HarlemHeat37]

LkrFan has had some pretty shitty takes in this thread.


Look at the Lakers. They never had a spectacular offense. Neither did Utah. What they do have is good coaches that have the backing of their front office to make the tough decisions if need be.

[endrity]

Of course he is. He hasn't played a man's game his entire career, so as a result, he doesn't have the wear and tear of guys who do.

It doesn't take much to stand in the pinch post and shoot over guys 3-4 inches taller a lot of the time. That's why he can play big minutes (that and the fact that the Mavs need him to). Aside from carrying the offense, they really don't ask for anything else out of him. I know that sounds like a lot, but he's not like a guy like Wade or Ginobili, who often work hard to get their points. He get's a lot of his points relatively easily, which is a credit to him and to the league's coaches, who often put players significantly smaller on him.

Rebounding, shot blocking, banging in the post on both ends, consistently deep playoff runs, this is the type of stuff that wears players out over time...and the type of stuff Nowitzki knows nothing about.

Poor Dirk, how dare he be so effective without destroying his body before he hits 30!

Dirk is a 25 and 11 guy in the playoffs, hardly taking it easy there either. For a guy that hasn't had a legit All-Star next to him during all his prime, winning an MVP, coming close to a title, and being in 4 FIRST team all-NBA it's pretty good.

The thing that I don't understand though, is why people need to turn the thread on a referendum on Dirk. The title of the OP was whether he is the best offensive player in the game right now. I don't think so, I said it earlier, but it would take a damn good argument to convince me he isn't in the top 5. Can we keep all relevant discussion within this issue. Or am I to expect a "4 rings faggot" argument really soon here?

[HarlemHeat37]

You can make an argument for Carmelo, too..I'd probably go with Dirk, Anthony or Gasol for this year, so far..

[endrity]

Dirk is a career 47% shooter.

How about you post some TS% here, to account the fact that he is deadly from the 3pt line as well as around 90% from the FT line for the last couple of seasons. Than we can talk.

The funny thing is I love Manu, loved him at Virtus too, before anyone in the NBA knew how to pronounce his name, which they still do it wrongly. But it's bitter fanboys like you who make people hate a specific player. Manu is great, amazing. And he will never even be closely compared to what Dirk has achieved as an individual during his NBA career. Not even remotely. One has an MVP, 2 other top 3 finishes, and 4 1st Team All-NBA. Manu can't even begin dreaming about these. So please, get a grip. I'll be on your side all day long if you argue something like Manu being the 3rd best SG in the NBA. He is not the best foreigner.

[TD 21]

Poor Dirk, how dare he be so effective without destroying his body before he hits 30!

Dirk is a 25 and 11 guy in the playoffs, hardly taking it easy there either. For a guy that hasn't had a legit All-Star next to him during all his prime, winning an MVP, coming close to a title, and being in 4 FIRST team all-NBA it's pretty good.

The thing that I don't understand though, is why people need to turn the thread on a referendum on Dirk. The title of the OP was whether he is the best offensive player in the game right now. I don't think so, I said it earlier, but it would take a damn good argument to convince me he isn't in the top 5. Can we keep all relevant discussion within this issue. Or am I to expect a "4 rings faggot" argument really soon here?

Like I said, it's partially a credit to him, but it's also a reality. People want to know why he's still pretty much the same player he's ever been; that's why.

Guys like O'Neal, Duncan, Garnett, Olajuwon, Robinson, Ewing, etc., wear down around that age because they're asked to do basically everything. Eventually, it takes it's toll.

He hasn't had a legit All-Star, but he's had a consistently bloated payroll and teams (not this current one, though) filled with guys a cut below All-Star caliber. I have no sympathy for Nowitzki, who handed away a championship.

I didn't turn the thread. I was merely responding to another fan who thinks Nowitzki's better than he is because he scores a lot. Funny how guys like Bosh, Stoudemire, Ellis, Martin, etc., take all this criticism (deserved, mind you) for being one dimensional, but Nowitzki is praised for it.

[jestersmash]

Dirk is a career 47% shooter.

This is an irrelevant and useless statistic.

You need to look at TS% because it takes into account FT% and the fact that shooting 40% from the 3 point line is equivalent to shooting 50% from 2. He has a career TS% of 58% which is phenomenal.

And, his true shooting percentage in the last 5 years is above his career average.

More importantly, with regards to my post, I was talking about how he's shooting right now thus far. He's well over 50. Career FG% is irrelevant for that sake alone.

[Ghazi]

lol TD 21

shut the fuck up bro

[endrity]

Like I said, it's partially a credit to him, but it's also a reality. People want to know why he's still pretty much the same player he's ever been; that's why.

Guys like O'Neal, Duncan, Garnett, Olajuwon, Robinson, Ewing, etc., wear down around that age because they're asked to do basically everything. Eventually, it takes it's toll.

He hasn't had a legit All-Star, but he's had a consistently bloated payroll and teams (not this current one, though) filled with guys a cut below All-Star caliber. I have no sympathy for Nowitzki, who handed away a championship.

I didn't turn the thread. I was merely responding to another fan who thinks Nowitzki's better than he is because he scores a lot. Funny how guys like Bosh, Stoudemire, Ellis, Martin, etc., take all this criticism (deserved, mind you) for being one dimensional, but Nowitzki is praised for it.

Neither of the guys you mentioned has scored as efficiently as Dirk has, for as long as Dirk has, in the high profile games that Dirk has, while becoming the closer that Dirk has. A guy that is about to become a 10 times all star, quite honestly, shouldn't even get mentioned with those guys, with Stoudemire the only mild exception.

It's seems to me like some fans think of Dirk as some sort of Memo Okur, big man, nice jumper, who has nothing else to fall back on. I understand if a casual fan makes that remark, but a Spurs fan shouldn't. Dirk gets most of his points today from the low post, 12-15 ft close to the basket, very much like a traditional forward. He also draws considerable defensive attention there, and is able to quickly attack the basket and get to the ft line because of it. And while it doesn't get mentioned often, I think Dirk has become an excellent passer, excellent. His reads out of double teams are perfect. And while his rebounding has dropped a bit during the reg season, that is mostly because Dallas has had great rebounders at all the other positions. He still hits the boards hard in the playoffs though, so to me it's a non issue.

He had a good roster in 05-07, but at the end of the day, Dirk needed to do most of the scoring and he did.

The fact that Dallas has the third highest payroll in the league today is a joke. That is purely something that the organization should be held accountable to, nothing more. The Knicks had one of the highest payrolls for most of the decade, but I am sure no one will claim that it translated into one of the most talented rosters in the league. Dirk has his part of the blame for 06 and 07, some exaggerate it, some forget it. But in no way should he hold responsibility for the front office's shortcomings for all these year.

[hitmanyr2k]

Like I said, it's partially a credit to him, but it's also a reality. People want to know why he's still pretty much the same player he's ever been; that's why.

Guys like O'Neal, Duncan, Garnett, Olajuwon, Robinson, Ewing, etc., wear down around that age because they're asked to do basically everything. Eventually, it takes it's toll.

He hasn't had a legit All-Star, but he's had a consistently bloated payroll and teams (not this current one, though) filled with guys a cut below All-Star caliber. I have no sympathy for Nowitzki, who handed away a championship.

I didn't turn the thread. I was merely responding to another fan who thinks Nowitzki's better than he is because he scores a lot. Funny how guys like Bosh, Stoudemire, Ellis, Martin, etc., take all this criticism (deserved, mind you) for being one dimensional, but Nowitzki is praised for it.

True. Shooters have longevity because that's pretty much all they do. They don't do any dirty work whatsoever. People used to marvel at Reggie Miller's longevity in the league and it used to make me laugh because all that MF did was shoot the damn ball. Didn't play defense or anything else that would wear a player down over the course of a career. Same goes for Ray Allen. He'll be able to stay around for at least another 3 seasons because all he does is shoot.

[sefant77]

Dirk is amazing.

I just want to know when he is going to decline? He is a durable fucker as well. Just a great player.

This durable fucker will probably end up in the Career Leaders in points Top10 with over 26000 points. Probably he will also crack the 10000 rebounds (since TD21 thinks he cant rebound).

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_career.html

[NRHector]

Of course he is. He hasn't played a man's game his entire career, so as a result, he doesn't have the wear and tear of guys who do.

It doesn't take much to stand in the pinch post and shoot over guys 3-4 inches taller a lot of the time. That's why he can play big minutes (that and the fact that the Mavs need him to). Aside from carrying the offense, they really don't ask for anything else out of him. I know that sounds like a lot, but he's not like a guy like Wade or Ginobili, who often work hard to get their points. He get's a lot of his points relatively easily, which is a credit to him and to the league's coaches, who often put players significantly smaller on him.

Rebounding, shot blocking, banging in the post on both ends, consistently deep playoff runs, this is the type of stuff that wears players out over time...and the type of stuff Nowitzki knows nothing about.you forgot to mention the free throws that the refs give him

[bongraider]

dirk is plain offensive

[dirk4mvp]

of course of all people DAF would try to come in this thread and end up looking like a dumbass.

crofl lkrfan. at least someone finally laughed at your _irk joke brah.

[LkrFan]

story of his life...
8-7.

[Cry Havoc]

Dirk is amazing. IMO, he's the most complete offensive player in the game right now. One of the best shots in the league, can hit from anywhere, impossible to guard, etc.

If Dirk had a serious threat alongside him he'd be even more lethal.

[LkrFan]

HH, I stand by my point that the Lakers do not have a spectacular offense. Again, Kobe said the triangle offense is boring. The offense can be manipulated on the fly which is especially useful at the end of games and qtrs so that the great individual talent (Shaq, Kobe, Pau) we've had can do damage. And way to cut off my entire quote so that it fits your shitty agenda. Good job.

[LkrFan]

Point proven
Says the guy who is a liar, and a man (?) that doesn't keep his word. :rolleyes

[TD 21]

Neither of the guys you mentioned has scored as efficiently as Dirk has, for as long as Dirk has, in the high profile games that Dirk has, while becoming the closer that Dirk has. A guy that is about to become a 10 times all star, quite honestly, shouldn't even get mentioned with those guys, with Stoudemire the only mild exception.

It's seems to me like some fans think of Dirk as some sort of Memo Okur, big man, nice jumper, who has nothing else to fall back on. I understand if a casual fan makes that remark, but a Spurs fan shouldn't. Dirk gets most of his points today from the low post, 12-15 ft close to the basket, very much like a traditional forward. He also draws considerable defensive attention there, and is able to quickly attack the basket and get to the ft line because of it. And while it doesn't get mentioned often, I think Dirk has become an excellent passer, excellent. His reads out of double teams are perfect. And while his rebounding has dropped a bit during the reg season, that is mostly because Dallas has had great rebounders at all the other positions. He still hits the boards hard in the playoffs though, so to me it's a non issue.

He had a good roster in 05-07, but at the end of the day, Dirk needed to do most of the scoring and he did.

The fact that Dallas has the third highest payroll in the league today is a joke. That is purely something that the organization should be held accountable to, nothing more. The Knicks had one of the highest payrolls for most of the decade, but I am sure no one will claim that it translated into one of the most talented rosters in the league. Dirk has his part of the blame for 06 and 07, some exaggerate it, some forget it. But in no way should he hold responsibility for the front office's shortcomings for all these year.

I never said any were as good as Nowitzki or had had as good a career as he has. My point is, people criticize those guys non stop, yet many of those same people gush over Nowitzki.

You probably see him more than me, but I see him enough to know he get's most of his points from mid-range. He usually shoots fade or fall away jumpers over undersized defenders. Anyone who's played the game knows that doesn't take much out of you.

He's not an excellent passer. Sabonis, Divac, Webber, O'Neal, Duncan, Garnett, Gasol, etc., these are excellent passers (O'Neal is the only possible exception, but he's at least a good passer).

His rebounding was never good. He's never once averaged 10. or better (did have two 9.9's, though). But rebound percentage is more telling than average per game. The top guys are around 20%. He's usually 6-8 percent lower. Which is pathetic for a 7-footer.

He had better than a good roster. They were always flawed, but they faced an even more flawed Heat team in '06 and lost, despite having what should have been an insurmountable lead. Then he follows it up by being the only MVP in history to accept his trophy while not being active in the playoffs...because he spearheaded the team that became the only 1st seed to lose to an 8th seed in a best of 7 series. All this because he, at 7-feet, let a bunch of 6-6 - 6-8 guys defend him in the pinch post primarily, instead of dominating them in the low post.

The Mavs have always had one of the most talented rosters in the league. You're seriously going to dispute that? A lot of years, they had more individual talent than the Spurs did.

I realize he's "your (Mavs fans) guy", so I get why you guys defend him, I just don't get why other fans (namely, Spurs fans) do. He should receive a lot more criticism than he does.

sefant, he'll get to 10, 000 rebounds because of longevity, not because he's a good rebounder. He's 7-foot tall and plays just over 37 minutes a game for over a decade. Considering that, it's nearly impossible to not get to 10, 000 rebounds.

[Ghazi]

^post less, tbh

[LkrFan]

Found this gem on another board, but it fits this thread IMO:


Dirk is a prolific shooter, but at 7' and occupying the PF position, what else does he do? He's too slow to be a help defender, doesn't alter shots, hardly even blocks them. When he's lofting pretty fade away jumpers on the perimeter he's leaving smaller players up front to fend for rebounds. Owners like Mark Cuban have tunnel vision, focusing on the one elite thing Dirk does and blind to the distractions. Dirk is not a championship piece, IMO.

:stirpot:

[Cry Havoc]

Found this gem on another board, but it fits this thread IMO:



:stirpot:

LkrFan still trying to figure out the definition of what "offensive" means, posting about defense in this thread. :lmao

[Ace]

Says the guy who is a liar, and a man (?) that doesn't keep his word. :rolleyes

Once again you get owned and change the subject.

[Ace]

Found this gem on another board, but it fits this thread IMO:



:stirpot:
This thread is about offensive... :lmao

[endrity]

I never said any were as good as Nowitzki or had had as good a career as he has. My point is, people criticize those guys non stop, yet many of those same people gush over Nowitzki.

You probably see him more than me, but I see him enough to know he get's most of his points from mid-range. He usually shoots fade or fall away jumpers over undersized defenders. Anyone who's played the game knows that doesn't take much out of you.

He's not an excellent passer. Sabonis, Divac, Webber, O'Neal, Duncan, Garnett, Gasol, etc., these are excellent passers (O'Neal is the only possible exception, but he's at least a good passer).

His rebounding was never good. He's never once averaged 10. or better (did have two 9.9's, though). But rebound percentage is more telling than average per game. The top guys are around 20%. He's usually 6-8 percent lower. Which is pathetic for a 7-footer.

He had better than a good roster. They were always flawed, but they faced an even more flawed Heat team in '06 and lost, despite having what should have been an insurmountable lead. Then he follows it up by being the only MVP in history to accept his trophy while not being active in the playoffs...because he spearheaded the team that became the only 1st seed to lose to an 8th seed in a best of 7 series. All this because he, at 7-feet, let a bunch of 6-6 - 6-8 guys defend him in the pinch post primarily, instead of dominating them in the low post.

The Mavs have always had one of the most talented rosters in the league. You're seriously going to dispute that? A lot of years, they had more individual talent than the Spurs did.

I realize he's "your (Mavs fans) guy", so I get why you guys defend him, I just don't get why other fans (namely, Spurs fans) do. He should receive a lot more criticism than he does.

sefant, he'll get to 10, 000 rebounds because of longevity, not because he's a good rebounder. He's 7-foot tall and plays just over 37 minutes a game for over a decade. Considering that, it's nearly impossible to not get to 10, 000 rebounds.

I think I have responded to your points pretty much, so I won't lose too much time repeating the same arguments.

However, next time you watch him, please watch his passing. Dirk will never get a lot of assists, because when he catches the ball in his sweet spots, his job is to score, not dish it out again.

But watch him make reads in the offense and then get back to me. Garnett, and I watched so much of Garnett when he was with the Wolves, is pretty much the same level. In fact Dirk will often make more spectacular passes, especially to the centers when the teams double team him. The thing was Garnett was never the scorer Dirk was, therefore he had to create more to make up for it.

But I digress, the point is not Dirk v. Garnett, that debate has been played out way too many times here. The points is, what is Dirk's standing relative to other players solely on their offense. I think it's top 5 and this is where my argument will stop.

[LkrFan]

LkrFan still trying to figure out the definition of what "offensive" means, posting about defense in this thread. :lmao
I already posted about his offense - I even gave him props. I knew that if I posted about his defense I would get a rise out of a few _irk fans. It worked. :downspin:

[DAF86]

Crolf at all the butthurt Mav fans, I only posted that Dirk was a career 47% shooter as a response to a guy that said that he always shot above 50%.

I didn't say anything about Dirk's play this season, in fact if you ask me I will probably say that he's a top 2 MVP candidate right now.

And no, I don't hate him, he's along Nash in my list of players I would like to see win a championship, it's just that I don't think as highly of his game as most of you do, mostly because I think that a star bigmen should be a low post player, over 50% shooter, 10+ rebound guy that imposes himself on the defensive end. If he were a SF I wouldn't be so critical of Dirk.

[Ace]

I already posted about his offense - I even gave him props. I knew that if I posted about his defense I would get a rise out of a few _irk fans. It worked. :downspin:
Play it off as trolling, nobody will know the difference...

[TD 21]

I think I have responded to your points pretty much, so I won't lose too much time repeating the same arguments.

However, next time you watch him, please watch his passing. Dirk will never get a lot of assists, because when he catches the ball in his sweet spots, his job is to score, not dish it out again.

But watch him make reads in the offense and then get back to me. Garnett, and I watched so much of Garnett when he was with the Wolves, is pretty much the same level. In fact Dirk will often make more spectacular passes, especially to the centers when the teams double team him. The thing was Garnett was never the scorer Dirk was, therefore he had to create more to make up for it.

But I digress, the point is not Dirk v. Garnett, that debate has been played out way too many times here. The points is, what is Dirk's standing relative to other players solely on their offense. I think it's top 5 and this is where my argument will stop.

I didn't say he was a bad passer, I just don't think he's a particularly good one. I'd also add to my list of excellent passing big men: Miller. But the absolute best were Sabonis, Divac and Webber.

There is no debate historically between Garnett and Nowitzki and anyone who thinks there is has no credibility.

Right now, it's top five. Overall, I don't think it's top five, though. You've got to keep some perspective, not get too caught up in what's happening in the present and rely on players track records (progression/regression to the mean) to kick in.

[dirk4mvp]

His rebounding was never good. He's never once averaged 10. or better (did have two 9.9's, though). But rebound percentage is more telling than average per game. The top guys are around 20%. He's usually 6-8 percent lower. Which is pathetic for a 7-footer.



Is 11 boards in the playoffs while having to exert even more energy on offense than normal due to playoff defenses being better good enough for you or are you gonna find a way to undermine that again because of the team he plays for?

[sefant77]

He's not an excellent passer. Sabonis, Divac, Webber, O'Neal, Duncan, Garnett, Gasol, etc., these are excellent passers (O'Neal is the only possible exception, but he's at least a good passer).

Gasol has a career average of 3.2 assist, Dirk of 2.7

Dirk played years in a heavy iso oriented offense.



His rebounding was never good. He's never once averaged 10. or better (did have two 9.9's, though). But rebound percentage is more telling than average per game. The top guys are around 20%. He's usually 6-8 percent lower. Which is pathetic for a 7-footer.

sefant, he'll get to 10, 000 rebounds because of longevity, not because he's a good rebounder. He's 7-foot tall and plays just over 37 minutes a game for over a decade. Considering that, it's nearly impossible to not get to 10, 000 rebounds.Again you tell Gaso is the far better rebounder when both have kind of the same career average (9.0 to 8.5) and Dirk toasting Gasol in playoff rebounding average.

Dirk played in better rebounding teams most of the times.

So just shut up

[Gutter92]

Play it off as trolling, nobody will know the difference...

:lmao

That shit won't fly past anyone but koriwhat

[ElNono]

I don't think Dirk's innate basketball talent is debatable. If his mental fortitude would match such talent, his teams would have undeniably won a championship or two already, especially during the 2005-2007 window, when he was in his prime and the league wasn't as lopsided as it is now.
He's definitely a HoF, and will probably retire as one of the best players of his generation. Much like Barkley, he will be remembered equally for his talent but also for his inability to lead fairly decent teams all the way.
I think his current scoring spree is both a reflection that his game has aged gracefully (most good jumpshooters do), and the burden of having to carry a lot of the offense due to lack of secondary options in Dallas right now. As somebody else said, most everybody there cannot create their own shot.

[Roddy Beaubois]

:lmao

That shit won't fly past anyone but koriwhat

More classic ST Member references! Building quite the niche there I see!

[J.J.Barea]

What the fuck is up with these closet Dirk haters?

Dirk is one of five players in NBA history to average 25/10 in the playoffs.
He's 23/8.5 in the regular season. (career wise & getting better every year)
He's 26/11 in the playoffs.
He's 30/13 in elimination games.

The higher the pressure, the more he steps up. The reason he hasn't gotten over the hump is he hasn't had enough help. The only Maverick to accompany him to the all star game since Nash left is Howard in '07. All champions in the last ten years have had multiple all stars.

[MavFan6488]

What the fuck is up with these closet Dirk haters?

Dirk is one of five players in NBA history to average 25/10 in the playoffs.
He's 23/8.5 in the regular season. (career wise & getting better every year)
He's 26/11 in the playoffs.
He's 30/13 in elimination games.

The higher the pressure, the more he steps up. The reason he hasn't gotten over the hump is he hasn't had enough help. The only Maverick to accompany him to the all star game since Nash left is Howard in '07. All champions in the last ten years have had multiple all stars.
jason kidd last all-star game. i think he replaced someone (kobe?), and he obviously had the benefit the game was held in dallas.. as good as kidd still passes, he's far from all-star material..

[KapitanTutan]

i wouldnt take anything a guy named JJ Barrea spits out seriously

[Giuseppe]

The higher the pressure, the more he steps up.

Please.

[frodo]

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL :lol:lol:lol :lmao:lmao:lmaoLOLOLOLOLOLOL

it's cuz he has no D, right? HOLY FUCK that shit is hilarious I've never seen that before!

that's why they emptied their bank account and bought Jason Kidd i guess. Kidd has two Ds.

[024]

i think has been for a while.

[TD 21]

The increase in rebounding in the playoffs is more of a result of playing more minutes than anything. There is no argument to be made that he's a good rebounder. This isn't an opinion oriented thing, the statistics bear it out. It's not just average, it's percent. He fails at both.

In terms of assists, that doesn't necessarily mean a player is a good passer. He played more of his career with more firepower surrounding him than Gasol did, yet Gasol still is a half an assist higher per game. Not just because of those numbers, but Gasol is clearly a better passer.

As for their rebounding, Gasol, like Nowitzki, was a terrible rebounder. Unlike Nowitzki, he's become a good (not great, though, only at just over 16% this season, still well short of the big boys, despite his high average, which is a direct result of being well over 7-feet and playing roughly 38 mpg) rebounder the past few seasons.

[sefant77]

The increase in rebounding in the playoffs is more of a result of playing more minutes than anything. There is no argument to be made that he's a good rebounder. This isn't an opinion oriented thing, the statistics bear it out. It's not just average, it's percent. He fails at both.

career minutes 36.7
career rebounding 8.5

min/rebound 4.3

playoff minutes 41.7
playoff rebounding 10.9

min/rebound 3.8

No its not more a result of playing time than anything.



In terms of assists, that doesn't necessarily mean a player is a good passer. He played more of his career with more firepower surrounding him than Gasol did, yet Gasol still is a half an assist higher per game. Not just because of those numbers, but Gasol is clearly a better passer.

d´oh

Assists number are based more in which system you play than on "firepower" around you :rolleyes

Thats why Steve Nash numbers skyrocked with the Suns not because he became a twice so good passer :rolleyes

Between Nash and Kidd Dirk played for years in an iso based offense with less assisted baskets in general.

Best case Gasol is a slightly better passer than Dirk.



As for their rebounding, Gasol, like Nowitzki, was a terrible rebounder. Unlike Nowitzki, he's become a good (not great, though, only at just over 16% this season, still well short of the big boys, despite his high average, which is a direct result of being well over 7-feet and playing roughly 38 mpg) rebounder the past few seasons.

just give it up.

Even in his last two career year playoffs with the Lakers Gasol didnt reach Dirks career playoff AVERAGE.

Gasol is piling up rebounds because he plays center and on PG-SF they have just average rebounders.

[TD 21]

career minutes 36.7
career rebounding 8.5

min/rebound 4.3

playoff minutes 41.7
playoff rebounding 10.9

min/rebound 3.8

No its not more a result of playing time than anything.



d´oh

Assists number are based more in which system you play than on "firepower" around you :rolleyes

Thats why Steve Nash numbers skyrocked with the Suns not because he became a twice so good passer :rolleyes

Between Nash and Kidd Dirk played for years in an iso based offense with less assisted baskets in general.

Best case Gasol is a slightly better passer than Dirk.



just give it up.

Even in his last two career year playoffs with the Lakers Gasol didnt reach Dirks career playoff AVERAGE.

Gasol is piling up rebounds because he plays center and on PG-SF they have just average rebounders.

A large part is playing more minutes.

A large part is surrounding firepower. I didn't say solely.

Nash's assists skyrocketed with the Suns partially because of the system (faster pace led to more possessions), but also because of the firepower surrounding him.

Gasol is a clear cut better passer than Nowitzki.

Gasol's rebounding improved last season. His rebound percentage was better in the past two playoffs than Nowitzki's career playoff average.

I don't know why Mavs fans bother arguing. Nowitzki is mostly a one dimensional player. Doesn't mean he's not a very good player or won't be going to the Hall-of-Fame, though.

[diego]

Umm Dirk's fadeaway jumper is literally impossible to stop. I have never seen another player able to stop it EVER.


if thats the case why don't the mavs score every trip down? why do they have 10 pt quarters?

[IronMexican]

Looking good so far.

[Ghazi]

Dirk's shooting is insane through 14.5 games this year...

[Hemotivo]

dirk should be a SF

[diego]

exactly, he misses. when i think of impossible to stop, i think of jordan on the drive or shaq in the paint. double teams? he's not the first player to face a double. like you say, he has to be on fire. the mavs inability to capitalize on the doubles he draws is a big part of the problem.

[MavFan6488]

dirk vs. the spurs: 26 pts on 12-14 shooting....

[Venti Quattro]

dirk should be a SF

nope.

[Agloco]

dirk vs. the spurs: 26 pts on 12-14 shooting....

What's more astounding is that he did all of his damage WITHOUT a single free throw......


That's right, he never even went to the line. Just fucking insane.

Yeah, he's the best as of now.