ESPN article "Haberstroh: Parker for MVP?"... anyone? [Archive]

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Pauleta14

11-25-2010, 11:36 AM

Is there someone on ST who is an ESPN Insider and could post the whole article please?

Thanks. :toast

lefty

11-25-2010, 11:37 AM

MVP candidate? Yes, no question

But they won't give it to him

Brazil

11-25-2010, 11:40 AM

MVP candidate? Yes, no question

But they won't give it to him

you drunk ?

Brazil

11-25-2010, 11:40 AM

didn't know Sequ is a writer for BSPN

lefty

11-25-2010, 11:42 AM

you drunk ?
No, but I'm stoned out of my minded

ShoogarBear

11-25-2010, 12:25 PM

If things go right, nobody on the Spurs should be even close to any MVP discussion.

If any one person is garnering those kinds of stats, then that means there's been a major injury.

ducks

11-25-2010, 12:33 PM

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166858

this is funny because someone started a thread about this last night except for another player on the team

ohmwrecker

11-25-2010, 12:34 PM

TP might nose in the discussion, but he won't get it . . . He and RJ are strong candidates for MIP though.

ducks

11-25-2010, 12:39 PM

love will get mip

Mal

11-25-2010, 12:59 PM

Only if Spurs have 71-1 season

Cane

11-25-2010, 01:02 PM

jiggy_55

11-25-2010, 01:03 PM

only if spurs have 71-1 season

lol 81-1

kaji157

11-25-2010, 01:27 PM

I think both him and Manu will be on the very very early discussion. At the same time i think this will be the perfect argument for the media to cancel each other out.

I think both have a chance to make the All-NBA second or third team. Maybe even voted in by the coaches to the ASG if we keep this peace, as all coaches are seeing how TP-MG backcourt is destroying every team without Duncan being a force inside, the same way the Pistons got 4 All-Stars on coach voting.

DAF86

11-25-2010, 01:28 PM

Parker's arguably not even the MVP of the Spurs, its 1A and 1B between him and Ginobili and I'm leaning towards Manu since he not only has the stats but the closer/clutch factor and being the leader in the huddles.

I wouldn't be surprised to see them get some MVP votes, I think Manu got one last year lol, but right now the likely MVP is between CP3 and Dwight Howard.

This, except that to me it has been Parker 1A and Manu 1B, besides the mere fact of having Duncan on the team will take a lot of MVP hype out of Tony or Manu or any other Spur player not name Duncan.

buttsR4rebounding

11-25-2010, 01:34 PM

Only if Spurs have 71-1 season

I guarantee they won't have a 71-1 season...since they play 82 games.

Pauleta14

11-25-2010, 01:44 PM

So nobody has acces to the article?

romain.star

11-25-2010, 02:03 PM

So nobody has acces to the article?

LOL bah je crois qu'il va falloir raquer pedro !

colargol

11-25-2010, 02:11 PM

LOL bah je crois qu'il va falloir raquer pedro !

ben merde alors...:depressed

diego

11-25-2010, 02:36 PM

You know that contract hangover theory? It doesn't apply to Tony Parker.

At the end of October, the San Antonio Spurs re-upped with their star point guard for a four-year, $50 million extension that should keep him in a Spurs uniform through 2014-15. Three weeks later, the Spurs boast the league's best record of 12-1 -- and Parker, who is currently sporting the league's ninth-highest player efficiency rating, is a huge reason why.

In the midst of a 10-game winning streak, the Spurs have stormed out of the gate in multiple ways. Just two seasons ago, the Spurs were the fourth-slowest team in the NBA, averaging 90.4 possessions per game. This year? They have cranked out an extra 7.4 possessions per game with predominantly the same core. Don't look now, but the Spurs are actually outpacing the Phoenix Suns in the speed game, ranking seventh in possessions per game with 97.8 to the Suns' 97.3.

So what changed? The Spurs are unleashing the blow-by speed of Parker outside of the half court.

People tend to forget that Parker is only 28 years old. It's easy to lump him in the same age bracket as Manu Ginobili and Tim Duncan, since they've played together for so long. But Ginobili and Duncan have five years on Parker, which makes an enormous difference in this league. So instead of catering to their mid-30s stars, the Spurs embraced the fact that they possess one of the league's fastest point guards in his prime, who also happens to represent the future of the franchise.

By putting Parker in the driver's seat, the Spurs have seen their transition game make up 13.3 percent of the team's offense, according to Synergy data, up dramatically from their 9.4 percent rate last season. Teams find it hard enough to stay in front of Parker in the half court, but the Spurs are leveraging the three-time All-Star's speed and quickness in traffic where there's no safety net in the form of defensive rotations. Flying in transition, Parker doesn't have to circumvent two or three defenders on his way to the rack anymore.

You'll notice this season that the Spurs have been pushing the ball off defensive rebounds, but more importantly, they're also getting turnovers, which trigger the run-and-gun style of play. Causing turnovers was a sore spot for the Spurs last season, as they ranked third to last in opponent turnover percentage. This season, the Spurs have jumped 15 spots in the rankings on their way to a 14.3 percent opponent turnover rate.

Once again, Parker is leading the way. Parker was vocal this offseason about his newfound dedication to the defensive side of the ball, but those proclamations usually end up being contract propaganda. In Parker's case, though, it was more than just talk. The 6-foot-2 point guard has been far more active in passing lanes this season. Whether it's intercepting entry passes to bigger point guards trying to body him up -- which happened more than once against Deron Williams on Friday night -- or picking off a lazy swing pass, we're seeing an offseason promise actually come to fruition on the court. With 26 steals this season, the normally undisruptive point guard is just three steals away from eclipsing his 2009-10 total after just 13 games, while ranking ninth in the NBA with 2.0 steals per game.

Parker utilizes a lightning-quick first step to destroy his man off the dribble, but it never seemed to translate on the defensive end. Similar accelerators like Dwyane Wade, Chris Paul and Rajon Rondo perennially rank atop the steals leaderboard, but Parker was the rare case in which a devastating first step vanished on the other side of the ball. Not anymore.

As is always the case with Parker, however, we have to complement our compliments with a caution: He can't seem to stay healthy for a full season. Over the previous three seasons, he has missed about 16 games per season and perennially battles a fragile left ankle. But he seems to be fully healthy after suffering a broken right hand in March and has shown zero signs of slowing down at age 28.

While Ginobili is in the midst of another spectacular season, the Spurs have redefined themselves through Parker's play on both ends of the floor. These aren't the same ol' Spurs, and if MVP voters are looking for the most valuable and transformative player on the league's best team -- which is often the case -- then it's time we recognize Parker as a legitimate MVP candidate in the early going.

Tom Haberstroh is a writer for ESPN Insider and ESPN.com's Heat Index.

diego

11-25-2010, 02:42 PM

tony is earning the praise, but I agree with others that it has been him and manu together, I dont think you can even call it 1a 1b, they're both playing at a great level. on defense both of them are hounding the other team into a lot of mistakes, when they do it simultaneously it causes havoc, IMO that is the main difference with other seasons.

Pauleta14

11-25-2010, 03:02 PM

LOL bah je crois qu'il va falloir raquer pedro !

Il suffit d'être patient... :lol

Pauleta14

11-25-2010, 03:03 PM

Thanks Diego! :toast

chasky

11-25-2010, 03:06 PM

lol 81-1

OR 71 -11 not bad at all.

Darkwaters

11-25-2010, 03:59 PM

lol 81-1

No, thats 71 wins, 1 loss and 10 ties

Brazil

11-25-2010, 09:42 PM

Putain les gars un article sur tp mvp on aura tout vu! Moi je dis que tp devrait divorcer tous les ans.

DxB

11-25-2010, 10:02 PM

Gino is our MVP... fuck the idiots who give it to parker

The Truth #6

11-25-2010, 10:22 PM

Parker and Manu are playing so well together all we can complain about is who is the true MVP candidate. Ha. They both are thriving under the more open, up-tempo system. Just imagine if they were allowed to play this way together a few years ago when they both were more explosive.

TDMVPDPOY

11-25-2010, 11:25 PM

Gino is our MVP... fuck the idiots who give it to parker

lmao this, u a hater?

Cry Havoc

11-25-2010, 11:33 PM

Gino is our MVP... fuck the idiots who give it to parker

You need to watch the Spurs play occasionally. Parker is the unquestionable MVP so far this year for our team.

ALVAREZ6

11-25-2010, 11:34 PM

No Spur is winning MVP any time soon, that is for sure.

jestersmash

11-25-2010, 11:37 PM

Cry Havoc

11-25-2010, 11:41 PM

TDMVPDPOY

11-25-2010, 11:45 PM

its fkn simple

if parker is that great, we shouldnt be playing from behind...

i hate clutch moments as a measure to show how great a player is....great players dont put there teams in that situation where they have to play from behind for all quarters...

as for ginoboli or parker for mvp, none of them are going to win it or even going to be top7 vote getter...

ps. if kobe couldnt win a mvp the year he was caught cheating his spouse, then how on earth is stern going to allow parker to win one this year?

Bukefal

11-26-2010, 04:08 AM

Thanks for posting Diego! :toast

TP an early candidate yes, but he won't get it.

I don't know which team some of you have been watching, but Parker is clearly the MVP on our team so far. And no, I am not a Manu hater. Jestersmash and Cry Havoc put it well. It's just how it is.

eric365

11-26-2010, 04:12 AM

as for ginoboli or parker for mvp, none of them are going to win it or even going to be top7 vote getter...

TP was 8th in 2009, 15th in 2007 and 9th in 2006
Manu was 11th in 2010 and 10th in 2008

So it's not like all star game. For the MVP voting they got some vote in the past and they weren't as good as this season so far (at least for TP)

If we have a 65+ season, one of them will be top 6 IMO

kace

11-26-2010, 05:54 AM

Ginobili is our closer. Parker is our MVP. It's odd but that's how it is.

Ginobili has proven to be the most effective closer on the Spurs team for some years now (hell, in the entire NBA - not just for the spurs). This assertion is actually backed by facts and figures if you look at his "clutch score" or "super clutch score" ratings on 82games.

Despite the fact that Pop puts the ball in Ginobili's hands at the ends of games, Parker is still the overall MVP of this team thus far. His assists are up, his steals are up, his scoring is up, and he's shooting a phenomenal percentage from the field.

you've brought these numbers several times now but if you look at clutch time FG % and game winning shot FG %, you will see a huge advantage for parker in those two stats in 82games.com.

the fact is that manu and tony are two great closers (and i'd say that tim isn't that bad either lol) and if the ball is usually in manu's hands it's because he's a better FT shooter than both tim and tony, even if he improved.

anyway, i'm confident with one of those three with the ball in his hands to close games.

but for MVP, i think it won't be a spur and it's quite logical. the Spurs are trully a team and a lot of players contribute with tony and manu as the two best players this season.

anyway, i find it so great to see one of the best backcourt ever. really fun.

Pauleta14

11-26-2010, 07:14 AM

Who cares who's most valuable to the team between Tony and Manu, it's just nice to see some Spurs related article is the national coverage...

Tony and Manu are the Most Valuable Backcourt of the league! That's all that matters...

oski1000

11-26-2010, 08:15 AM

Without Manu, Spurs won´t make the first playoff round. MVP should agree with his contribution for the success of the team. We can imagine a team without Parker and still be succesfull.

Dartherus

11-26-2010, 08:31 AM

Without Manu, Spurs won´t make the first playoff round. MVP should agree with his contribution for the success of the team. We can imagine a team without Parker and still be succesfull.
Exactly, Parker is playing his best right now...but even at this stage...stats difference between TP and Manu are not so noticeable, check NBA.com, and take notice the mpg also....and we're talking the best Parker....

Manu, apart from the boxscore, contribute a lot of intangibles both in O and D...due to his GENIUS basketball IQ and competitive character (on par with Jordan imo), only physical limitations wouldn not make him jordanesque more often....

But even with physical and age limitations, he's so clutch because of his IQ and character...

TP could be replaced with any of the freaking athletes good at scoring that are in NBA...Manu or Duncan not...Genius IQ and competitive character at the same time....is VERY VERY rare in NBA...

anakha

11-26-2010, 10:18 AM

Without Manu, Spurs won´t make the first playoff round. MVP should agree with his contribution for the success of the team. We can imagine a team without Parker and still be succesfull.

Exactly, Parker is playing his best right now...but even at this stage...stats difference between TP and Manu are not so noticeable, check NBA.com, and take notice the mpg also....and we're talking the best Parker....

Manu, apart from the boxscore, contribute a lot of intangibles both in O and D...due to his GENIUS basketball IQ and competitive character (on par with Jordan imo), only physical limitations wouldn not make him jordanesque more often....

But even with physical and age limitations, he's so clutch because of his IQ and character...

TP could be replaced with any of the freaking athletes good at scoring that are in NBA...Manu or Duncan not...Genius IQ and competitive character at the same time....is VERY VERY rare in NBA...

Since ST doesn't have a native smiley for this occasion, I'll have to import one...

http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-ughh.gif

Cry Havoc

11-26-2010, 11:12 AM

its fkn simple

if parker is that great, we shouldnt be playing from behind...

How many games have we played this year where we've trailed by more than 2-3 after the first quarter? Our average margin win is nearly double digits.

i hate clutch moments as a measure to show how great a player is....great players dont put there teams in that situation where they have to play from behind for all quarters...

Parker hasn't been clutch this year? He's taken 4 threes in the clutch and hasn't missed yet. He's had to grind out so many points in the clutch because NO ONE ELSE on the team was stepping up.

as for ginoboli or parker for mvp, none of them are going to win it or even going to be top7 vote getter...

If the Spurs win 60+ and get a 1-2 seed, you bet your ass one of them will be in the top 5 in MVP voting.

ps. if kobe couldnt win a mvp the year he was caught cheating his spouse, then how on earth is stern going to allow parker to win one this year?

No one here has said Parker is going to WIN it. Just that he should be in the running.

Without Manu, Spurs won´t make the first playoff round. MVP should agree with his contribution for the success of the team. We can imagine a team without Parker and still be succesfull.

Really? We can imagine a team without Parker? Who's going to pick up the scoring for the first 3 quarters so Manu can go off late? Who's going to be distributing while staying a huge threat as a penetrating player to collapse the defense? Who's going to force his way to the line to get the other team in foul trouble? You think Manu can do that for 4 quarters?

Exactly, Parker is playing his best right now...but even at this stage...stats difference between TP and Manu are not so noticeable, check NBA.com, and take notice the mpg also....and we're talking the best Parker....

"Check NBA.com". Basically this means you're too lazy to look up stats yourself, and rather than back up your statement with fact, you just want to hate on Parker. Got it.

Manu, apart from the boxscore, contribute a lot of intangibles both in O and D...due to his GENIUS basketball IQ and competitive character (on par with Jordan imo), only physical limitations wouldn not make him jordanesque more often....

Parker picks up the team when no one is scoring. He's also averaging 2 steals per year this year.

But even with physical and age limitations, he's so clutch because of his IQ and character...

Ah, okay, so IQ = MVP of the team, not how they play on he court. Got it.

TP could be replaced with any of the freaking athletes good at scoring that are in NBA...Manu or Duncan not...Genius IQ and competitive character at the same time....is VERY VERY rare in NBA...

Please show me how many PGs have averaged 20 PPG on 50% shooting over the past 25 seasons in the NBA. Thanks. And GTFO of this thread until you come back with real stats instead of this subjective nonsense.

http://espn.go.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/sa/san-antonio-spurs

Here, have some fucking stats:

Parker plays 1 more minute per game, gets the same number of rebounds despite being several inches shorter, averages 7.7 assists to Manu's 4.9, gets MORE steals (despite Manu's genius IQ and defensive playmaking), turns the ball over LESS, and is shooting 54% this year compared to Manu's 46.7%. This DESPITE being the primary scorer for the Spurs through the first three quarters. They're also scoring at basically the same rate, however when you factor assists into the equation, Parker is directly responsible for 36 to 44 points per game, while Manu has a hand in 28 to 36 points per game. Since Tony is getting more assists with less turnovers, his assist to TO ratio is much higher than Manu's as well -- 3.1 to 1.8.

Dartherus

11-26-2010, 03:44 PM

Parker plays 1 more minute per game
1.5 min per game, 50% more of what you say, mr stats...

, gets the same number of rebounds despite being several inches shorter
Haven't I said it? physical limitations and AGE....manu had far more rebounds when younger...depite being an 'euro white softie' as many were labeled before in NBA....

", averages 7.7 assists to Manu's 4.9, gets MORE steals (despite Manu's genius IQ and defensive playmaking)"
Are you ware that PARKER PLAYS THE POINT? are you aware how much of the time he handles the ball?

Besides, all you mention is offense and THIS SEASON, MAnu was always ahead Tony in terms of effciency rating or PER rating, while Parker scored more and little else.....

Manu has always been FAR BETTER than Tony regarding intangibles coming from his genius IQ (off the ball movements, awareness, knwing when to pull the acelerator and when to slow down and save energy....)....

Manu has always been FAR BETTER AT D also....

And don't say because of age...PArker has improved lately at decision making, but He'll never be near the IQ of Manu at his prime....

BTW, Parker has been unable to show success OUTSIDE SPURS as Manu has achieved...why? simple, because a profilic scorer with just average IQ needs some genius IQ player on the same team, if not, it would become another profilic scorer in a crappy team....as it has happened with PArker in the French NT, where he misses the genius of Manu or Duncan....

Adn don't tell me it's because French NT sucks...because people who follow euro basketball closely, knows that THERE HAVEN'T BEEN DIFFERENCE in achievements in the French NT with or without Parker.....Dirk, Manu or Pau Gasol....have had a big positive impact on their NT teams, Parker didn't....

MaNuMaNiAc

11-26-2010, 03:52 PM

Are we seriously going to go down this idiotic road AGAIN!!!?? Christ!

diego

11-26-2010, 03:53 PM

cry havoc, I already said i think they're playing on the same level this season, and I don't agree at all with those guys saying you could just replace tony's production with any athletic guard. so I'm not saying manu > tony, but I want to give you some stats (from basketball-reference.com):

manu's TS% is 63%, tony's 59%; you have to take 3's and FT into account.
PER and rebound rate are slightly higher for manu; steals are exactly equal; blocks manu has 0.9% vs 0 for tony; manu has a slightly higher usage rate (which would contradict the tony for 3 quarters / manu for 1 argument); Tony is assisting much better than manu and taking care of the ball a little better than manu.

the point is, they are very even, and the stats you posted don't tell the whole story.

Brazil

11-26-2010, 03:54 PM

Adn don't tell me it's because French NT sucks...because people who follow euro basketball closely, knows that THERE HAVEN'T BEEN DIFFERENCE in achievements in the French NT with or without Parker.....Dirk, Manu or Pau Gasol....have had a big positive impact on their NT teams, Parker didn't....

You can think what you want bro' but you know shit about FNT and honestly I'm not sure about you following closely euro basketball

:lol "THERE HAVEN'T BEEN DIFFERENCE in achievements". Limit your takes on the NBA.

mathbzh

11-26-2010, 03:55 PM

the point is, they are very even

Maybe we could just agree on that and stop the drama...

MaNuMaNiAc

11-26-2010, 03:58 PM

The health of a lot of ego's in this thread riding on who's favorite player is considered better or more important. Just saying

Dartherus

11-26-2010, 03:59 PM

You can think what you want bro' but you know shit about FNT and honestly I'm not sure about you following closely euro basketball

:lol "THERE HAVEN'T BEEN DIFFERENCE in achievements". Limit your takes on the NBA.
http://www.nba.com/2010/news/features/11/26/race-to-mvp-week5/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1
READ, and learn a little, why Manu is ahead of Parker is they're so even in stats? the X factor, the intengibles (btw, MAnu has always been better at D)......people who analyze basketball tend to know about it.....READ

Brazil

11-26-2010, 04:06 PM

http://www.nba.com/2010/news/features/11/26/race-to-mvp-week5/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1
READ, and learn a little, why Manu is ahead of Parker is they're so even in stats? the X factor, the intengibles (btw, MAnu has always been better at D)......people who analyze basketball tend to know about it.....READ

:rolleyes Did I say that Manu is not ahead of parker ? For me they are the best backcourt in the nba and the spurs are winning I'm a big fan of both. Manu and him are playing great. I honestly don't care about who is the best and who has the most intangibles, I'm just glad they play for my favorite team.

Once again you can think whatever you want it's your opinion now your BS about FNT is funny because you know nothing about French bb.

Dartherus

11-26-2010, 04:14 PM

:rolleyes Did I say that Manu is not ahead of parker ? For me they are the best backcourt in the nba and the spurs are winning I'm a big fan of both. Manu and him are playing great. I honestly don't care about who is the best and who has the most intangibles, I'm just glad they play for my favorite team.

Once again you can think whatever you want it's your opinion now your BS about FNT is funny because you know nothing about French bb.
I know France got a silver medal in 2000 olympics....there aren't scrubs in such NT (not even today, last time I checked...they have more NBA players than any other nation outside USA in their roster)....my point is that Parker with a very powerful roster, hasn't been able to get the level of achievements gotten by players like dirk (a 3rd place in a World Cup with really crappy German NT), Pau Gasol (World Champ) or Manu Ginobili (Olympic champ)...that's the point....

Blackjack

11-26-2010, 04:15 PM

Are we seriously going to go down this idiotic road AGAIN!!!?? Christ!

Yup, that time of year. ST's favorite pastime. :lol

ShoogarBear

11-26-2010, 04:26 PM

Are we seriously going to go down this idiotic road AGAIN!!!?? Christ!

Got some newbies who need to work out their demons.

mingus

11-26-2010, 04:27 PM

where Parker might start to seperate from Ginobili is on the defensive end. haven't seen anyone mention that. offensively it's pretty much a wash.

jag

11-26-2010, 04:48 PM

If Dartherus keeps this up he's gonna get slaughtered.

Brazil

11-26-2010, 04:53 PM

I know France got a silver medal in 2000 olympics....there aren't scrubs in such NT (not even today, last time I checked...they have more NBA players than any other nation outside USA in their roster)....my point is that Parker with a very powerful roster, hasn't been able to get the level of achievements gotten by players like dirk (a 3rd place in a World Cup with really crappy German NT), Pau Gasol (World Champ) or Manu Ginobili (Olympic champ)...that's the point....

:lol what powerful roster ? just lol. Yeah on the paper France has a powerful roster too bad they never played together.

I don't see the link between TP and the 2000 silver medal tbh.
We also won the silver medal in 1948 BTW.

jag

11-26-2010, 04:57 PM

check NBA.com, and take notice the mpg also....

TP could be replaced with any of the freaking athletes good at scoring that are in NBA...

:lol wow

romain.star

11-26-2010, 05:32 PM

Cry Havoc

11-26-2010, 06:07 PM

Oh my god... not that again...

We have one of the best backcourt in the history of this league, and people still bitching about Parker vs Manu.
I honestly don't understand why you guys can't enjoy this amazing situation.

It's fine until they start talking about how Parker is just a "good" guard that could be replaced by any athletic player in the league.

UnWantedTheory

11-26-2010, 06:45 PM

:sleep

timvp

11-26-2010, 06:47 PM

On old fashioned Tony vs. Manu thread. Hadn't seen one of these in a while.

Dartherus

11-26-2010, 07:04 PM

If Dartherus keeps this up he's gonna get slaughtered.
Getting rantsd as answers are not being slaughtered....getting ARGUMENTS showing how Parker has been better than Manu in D, in PER ratings, how Parker has been able to do something with a roster equal or better to the argentinian NT (and who had been able to win a silver medal in 2000 olympics, yet for the next olympic cycle Parker was not able to lead them into anything)....

In short, how parker has been able to lead a team to a notorious achievement without being backed up by Tim and Manu....

when someone show such facts as wrong, that would be getting myself slaughtered.....the rest are just rants and bitchings...

Cry Havoc

11-26-2010, 07:42 PM

TP could be replaced with any of the freaking athletes good at scoring that are in NBA..

:lmao

Thread should have ended right here.

:lmao

Cry Havoc

11-26-2010, 07:47 PM

Getting rantsd as answers are not being slaughtered....getting ARGUMENTS showing how Parker has been better than Manu in D, in PER ratings, how Parker has been able to do something with a roster equal or better to the argentinian NT (and who had been able to win a silver medal in 2000 olympics, yet for the next olympic cycle Parker was not able to lead them into anything)....

So just curious, how is it that Manu is so much better at scoring, but Parker is averaging as many points despite not firing away from 3 nearly as often or going to the line as often as Manu?

How is Manu so much better on D, but Parker is averaging more steals than he is?

How is it that Manu is so much better with the ball, but Parker is averaging MORE assists and FEWER turnovers (not fewer turnovers per minute, he's averaging fewer turnovers total than Manu) despite having the ball in his hands for most of the game?

In short, how parker has been able to lead a team to a notorious achievement without being backed up by Tim and Manu....

What does NT accomplishments have anything to do with the NBA? They don't. Stop bringing it up like it matters.

when someone show such facts as wrong, that would be getting myself slaughtered.....the rest are just rants and bitchings...

I've posted a lot of stats that you have yet to even address, choosing instead to cherry-pick the few that favor Manu and making ridiculous statements like the one I quoted above.

8FOR!3

11-26-2010, 08:55 PM

Tony Parker might just be the most valuable point guard in the league. But the most valuable player on the Spurs is Ginobili. He's the 2nd best 2 guard in the NBA and one of the best players. But it's clear that he has intangibles nobody else has.

Dartherus

11-26-2010, 10:08 PM

So just curious, how is it that Manu is so much better at scoring, but Parker is averaging as many points despite not firing away from 3 nearly as often or going to the line as often as Manu?
Where did I write that Manu was better at scoring? care to show me?

Are you aware that PER rating implies much more than just scoring?

How is Manu so much better on D, but Parker is averaging more steals than he is?
Go tell that to a good coach, and hear him LOL...:lol

Anyway, Manu has always had more spg than Parker in former seasons, but having more spg doesnt mean to be a better defender, Basketball Coach 101 could be fine for you....

How is it that Manu is so much better with the ball, but Parker is averaging MORE assists and FEWER turnovers (not fewer turnovers per minute, he's averaging fewer turnovers total than Manu) despite having the ball in his hands for most of the game?
again? I already answered this,,, are you aware that Tony plays POINT GUARD and Manu shooting guard?

do you realize how much time is TP with the ball in his hands? well, check the 101 course and we'll talk later kid....

What does NT accomplishments have anything to do with the NBA? They don't. Stop bringing it up like it matters.
Because it matters when you evaluate a player's resume.....

Because it shows that Manu can lead a team, being the MVP and getting titles, WITHOUT DUNCAN OR PARKER (noit only his NT, but also his teams in Europe)....

But Parker has failed miserably to achieve that without Tim and Manu....despite having a roster that had won a silver medal in the olympics without him (you can't have the excuse of lack of team play)...despite France having the most NBA player in his roster than any other country not named USA....but hey, Parker goes there, score a lot, but overall results of the team with him are far from being stellar, as players like Dirk, Pau, Scola or Manu has showed in such competitions....

The only chances that TP has to show his worth without Tim and Manu are in such competitions, and so far, he hasn't lived to the expectation....at least not to an equivalent of Manu's...

I've posted a lot of stats that you have yet to even address, choosing instead to cherry-pick the few that favor Manu and making ridiculous statements like the one I quoted above.[/QUOTE]

Josepatches_

11-26-2010, 11:04 PM