Quick Grades: Spurs vs. Mavericks - Nov. 26

[timvp]

Quick Grades: Spurs vs. Mavericks (http://www.sanantoniodispatch.com/san-antonio-spurs/spurs-grades/quick-grades-spurs-vs-mavs/)

http://sanantoniodispatch.com/nov26grades.jpg
http://sanantoniodispatch.com/nov26grades2.jpg (http://www.sanantoniodispatch.com/san-antonio-spurs/spurs-grades/quick-grades-spurs-vs-mavs/)

[Chomag]

great grading as usual Timvp! Spurs have got to find a way to win these kind of games when the other team takes away everything easy from them with D. They can't just rely on hot shooting especially in the playoffs because teams in playoff mode will contest everything and shut their hot shooting down.

There is no secret that Golden State Warriors have always been a high scoring team yet count how many playoff series that they have won.

[TDMVPDPOY]

NEAL b2b turnovers in the 4th :(

fck that shit

this game was winnable until pop decided to go bench on the mavs teams for way longer then expected...

alot of the players were slow on switches

[ducks]

agree manu ran out of gas pop has to stop playing him all these minutes

[Bender]

I tried to quote the Bonner section but I couldn't... anyway, after saying what you said about bonner, why do you think he got major minutes, and was in during crunch time too...?

[ploto]

I have not had a chance to see the Spurs play for any extended time this year until tonight, and I guess I just happened upon a game where they looked just like the Spurs of last season. Manu played well early on before tiring. Tony played poorly and did not seem to care. Jefferson was horrid. Bonner was the first big off the bench, and he was awful. Hill was the bright spot off the bench.

[itzsoweezee]

lol @ attributing nowitzski's 12-14 shooting to blair's defense. what a laughable review. the guy played like 10 minutes the whole game and was the only one that even made dirk uncomfortable with the ball.

mcdyess and bonner, on the other hand, got absolutely abused by dirk.

maybe you should consider rebounding in your "grades"?

[Yorae]

How's duncan doing? I'm feeling a bit worried about the way he's been playing lately.

[timvp]

why do you think Bonner got major minutes, and was in during crunch time too...?

Bonner has been getting the same type of minutes in recent games. For whatever reason, Pop never really adjusts based on history of a player versus a team. I doubt he even considered that Bonner almost always sucks against the Mavs.

[timvp]

lol @ attributing nowitzski's 12-14 shooting to blair's defense. what a laughable review. the guy played like 10 minutes the whole game and was the only one that even made dirk uncomfortable with the ball.Read it again. I gave Blair credit for doing some surprisingly good work against Nowitzki. I followed that up by saying that good work didn't slow down Nowitzki. I didn't attribute Nowitzki's shooting to Blair.


mcdyess and bonner, on the other hand, got absolutely abused by dirk.

maybe you should consider rebounding in your "grades"?Again, I think you need to go back and read. It was all mentioned.

[timvp]

I have not had a chance to see the Spurs play for any extended time this year until tonight, and I guess I just happened upon a game where they looked just like the Spurs of last season. Manu played well early on before tiring. Tony played poorly and did not seem to care. Jefferson was horrid. Bonner was the first big off the bench, and he was awful. Hill was the bright spot off the bench.

Classic, ploto "not watching" until the Spurs lose :lol

[elbamba]

Don't know how Dice can get anything higher than a C-. His game was awful tonight. He seemed out of position on almost every play.

The whole team seemed out of position and cluttered on both offense and defense.

Pop should have also received a D for this game as his lineup was crap. Splitter played well and couldn't crack the lineup in the second half. Blair needs to be a bench player. The passing sucked all game and they did nothing to improve on it.

My take, Spurs needed this loss. They have looked bad the last three games. This loss at home will make them work on ball movement and moving on both ends of the floor. We can't just sit back and watch Manu play.

[ploto]

Classic, ploto "not watching" until the Spurs lose :lol

How about having other priorities and being able on a holiday to sit down for 2 hours and watch TV? I haven't even had time to watch an Olympiakos game in a couple of weeks.

[ElNono]

Except for Manu, Hill and Neal in a few stretches, I thought the Mavs wanted it more.
I just think we need to do better at home, especially with the early fouls. Chandler got a parade to the line and you can't do that.

[ElNono]

Good grades, BTW. I mostly agree. :tu

[Borosai]

You know the team isn't focused when Tim gets a rebound taken away by Kidd, and Dice gets one taken away by Barrea. Most of the guys were not completely there.

[Blackjack]

Watching this game, on a positive note, I can't help but watch these two teams play and feel like the pendulum of the rivalry has swung back into the Spurs' favor. At least, it felt that way before and during the game. We'll see if anything changes.

But the matchups are much better now and the confidence/swagger of both teams has changed quite a bit. The Spurs played like they weren't threatened at all and would eventually turn it on, which hasn't been the case in recent years -- the Mavs seemed to have the upper hand from '06 until last postseason.

[Sean Cagney]

Watching this game, on a positive note, I can't help but watch these two teams play and feel like the pendulum of the rivalry has swung back into the Spurs' favor. At least, it felt that way before and during the game. We'll see if anything changes.

But the matchups are much better now and the confidence/swagger of both teams has changed quite a bit. The Spurs played like they weren't threatened at all and would eventually turn it on, which hasn't been the case in recent years -- the Mavs seemed to have the upper hand from '06 until last postseason.

Not in 08 though we got them 3-1, but besides that you are right man. We need to take this back and take it back now fully! Tough loss tonight and most played bad as you and others said, but they did not seem like they ever though they could not win this one.

[spurs1990]

What is the SA Dispatch? Is that a second newspaper in San Antone?

[baseline bum]

I wanted to punch a hole in my TV on that play near the end where they were up 3, isolated Dirk near the left elbow and no Spur came to give help to Bonner. Then Dirk hit the fallaway off one foot and sealed the game.

[Cessation]

descent grades

yes pop had questionable lineups, this is just one instance, dirk is hot, and he puts bonner on him at crunch time, really? does he not care about stops? is bonner going to stop him?

spurs just got outplayed, plain and simple, theyve been playing uninspired ball last couple of games, maybe they tired

whats the point of startign blair if he only plays 10 minutes? might as well start splitter, get him used to the rest of the starters

[Drewlius]

I know Bonner becomes a scapegoat way too often, even though he has bailed us out these last few weeks. But his defense is simply atrocious. It honestly makes me want to scream when I see his awful rotations.

[TDMVPDPOY]

About splitter

with the high pick, how come his always running away from the high pick quicker then screening the defender, most of the time the dribbler wont pass him the ball on those type of plays the spurs run. Most of the time its high pick and dribble penetrate inside...

and when the ball is dump inside into him, why is he always passing it out when the defender is an inferior player aka IAN BUSTS MAHINMI

[Capt Bringdown]

Re Splitter and "Being a bigger part of the rotation appears to simply be a matter of time."

Not a safe bet with Pop. 18 points in one game, 10 seconds in the next. A good showing in the first half, pine time in the second. And on and on...

[Pauleta14]

Thanks timvp!

I agree with your grades a comments overall.
For whatever reason (early foul trouble is not enough) TP wasn't agressive offensively, he ended taking a lot of bad/desperates shots, he didn't work on P&R, didn't try to get to the line...

I think Tony was 1 of the reasons RJ had a bad game.

Let's hope he bounces back next game.............against CP3! (he better be at 100%)

[Pauleta14]

BTW I stil don't understand why Splitter didn't play much against Chandler, each time he plays, he produces...

[NASpurs]

The rotations in this game were fucking laughable. You would have thought this team never played together and the lineup late third quarter, early fourth quarter made me wanna punch Pop in the fucking balls. His love for Bonner when he's not producing is sickening. It's like Pop just waits in anticipation for Bonner to blow up shootings threes to open up the game a bit but when that doesn't happen, it's really frustrating as a fan to see him in there.

[duncan228]

What is the SA Dispatch? Is that a second newspaper in San Antone?

Yes. And it's integrated with SpursTalk.

Introducing: The San Antonio Dispatch

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164914

SpursTalk's Integration with SanAntonioDispatch.com

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165234

[TJastal]

The rotations in this game were fucking laughable. You would have thought this team never played together and the lineup late third quarter, early fourth quarter made me wanna punch Pop in the fucking balls. His love for Bonner when he's not producing is sickening. It's like Pop just waits in anticipation for Bonner to blow up shootings threes to open up the game a bit but when that doesn't happen, it's really frustrating as a fan to see him in there.

Yah, what's up with that Bonner lover/Pop apologists? I thought Bonner was supposed to be sat when he wasn't producing...

[Blackjack]

timvp, what was that lineup early in the fourth?

I believe it was Parker, Hill, Neal, Bonner and 'Dyess and the Mavs had Dirk, Ian and Marion on the floor. You recall?

Edit: Never mind, Terry and Barea.

[JustinJDW]

I missed the first half, but did Tiago really play that well to get an A grade after only playing eight minutes? Can someone explain if he played that well in those eight minutes?

[Libri]

I agree that Blair's defense on Dirk was not bad. DeJuan played him tight and even poked the ball away twice. Unfortunately, Blair doesn't have the height and Dirk simply shot over him, like he does with everybody.

[crc21209]

The one thing that bothered me the most is that Pop used some pretty dumb ass matchups against Dirk. I don't know if he's trying to hide his cards right now or what, but Bonner on Dirk? :td. Blair can use his body and quickness against Dirk, but let's face it...he's too damn undersized to defend him. Bonner is too damn soft to defend Dirk. That leaves us with a couple of options...especially in crunch time...he should've gone with Dice. Now I know he wasnt do so hot on Dirk to start off but I'll take Dice > Bonner on Dirk any day of the week. Another matchup I hope I see next time the Spurs take on Dallas is Splitter on Dirk...why not? See what the kid's got against him...

[Pauleta14]

The one thing that bothered me the most is that Pop used some pretty dumb ass matchups against Dirk. I don't know if he's trying to hide his cards right now or what, but Bonner on Dirk? :td. Blair can use his body and quickness against Dirk, but let's face it...he's too damn undersized to defend him. Bonner is too damn soft to defend Dirk. That leaves us with a couple of options...especially in crunch time...he should've gone with Dice. Now I know he wasnt do so hot on Dirk to start off but I'll take Dice > Bonner on Dirk any day of the week. Another matchup I hope I see next time the Spurs take on Dallas is Splitter on Dirk...why not? See what the kid's got against him...


It's just CIA Pop...
He knows perfectly how to deal with Dirk, we saw last PO that our best asset against him is McDyess and constantly changing the player defending him so that he doesn't fell comfortable...

Just a regular season game, the main reason we lost was Tony and the 3pts shots were off.

[Russo21]

Please trade Jefferson for a tall SF defender who can spot up and hit the trey before RJ totally starts sucking like he did last season. After his hot start he's showing serious signs of classic RJ suckage again. Please do it now while he may have upped his value a little freakin bit!

[Russo21]

Ditto for Blair and Bonner. Someone may like Bonner's semi hot streak and jump at a spur of the moment trade for him... in which they will likely want to jump off of a building after pulling the trigger.

[greyforest]

I have not had a chance to see the Spurs play for any extended time this year until tonight, and I guess I just happened upon a game where they looked just like the Spurs of last season. Manu played well early on before tiring. Tony played poorly and did not seem to care. Jefferson was horrid. Bonner was the first big off the bench, and he was awful. Hill was the bright spot off the bench.

Pretty much. Tonight was a flashback to last year.

Spurs until this game have looked quite different.

[angelbelow]

Couldn't catch the game, thanks for the quick grades. Sucks that we lost, but from the boxscore and the quick grade we just had a few too many plays off sync. Bound to happen.. on to the next one.

[Ice009]

Alright so I just watched the game. I couldn't watch it live and I gotta ask why is Pop overplaying Bonner?

Bonner absolutely stinks. He's gotta be shooting close to 0% inside. Splitter played well and never got anymore minutes in the second half. We're not going anywhere with Bonner and I'd prefer it if he was traded. If we can trade both McDyess and Bonner, but get McDyess back then that might be a great trade because that means Pop would have no choice but to play Splitter. Pop needs his hand forced on this because Bonner just won't help us in the playoffs.

I am absolutely sick of the Spurs letting Dallas come into our house and rip us apart. It's happened too often over the last few seasons where we let Dallas manhandle us on our own court. Really pathetic display of toughness from the Spurs in this game.

[Obstructed_View]

Yah, what's up with that Bonner lover/Pop apologists? I thought Bonner was supposed to be sat when he wasn't producing...

Actually I'm the one that said he should be a role player who only gets minutes when he's hitting threes. Pop thinks he should be the first big off the bench and should be the primary center to close out games against the other team's best big. Tpark and Chumpdumper think you're dumb if you disagree.

[TJastal]

Alright so I just watched the game. I couldn't watch it live and I gotta ask why is Pop overplaying Bonner?

Bonner absolutely stinks. He's gotta be shooting close to 0% inside. Splitter played well and never got anymore minutes in the second half. We're not going anywhere with Bonner and I'd prefer it if he was traded. If we can trade both McDyess and Bonner, but get McDyess back then that might be a great trade because that means Pop would have no choice but to play Splitter. Pop needs his hand forced on this because Bonner just won't help us in the playoffs.

I am absolutely sick of the Spurs letting Dallas come into our house and rip us apart. It's happened too often over the last few seasons where we let Dallas manhandle us on our own court. Really pathetic display of toughness from the Spurs in this game.

You're preaching to the choir, here. I have no idea why Pop isn't using Splitter to get him acclimated quickly in order to have him ready to go by the playoffs. It's fucking retarded. He'd rather waste precious minutes on a one trick pony like Bonner rather than a legit 7-foot polished big man that the franchise waited years to sign.

At this rate of 5-15 minutes here & there sandwiched between 2 or 3 DNP's Splitter will be nowhere near ready to contribute in a tough playoff game atmosphere.

[Obstructed_View]

The Mavericks broadcasters mentined something interesting. Bonner has shot 21 of 36 from three point range (58%) and has shot 3 of 24 from two point range (12.5%).

[Pauleta14]

Alright so I just watched the game. I couldn't watch it live and I gotta ask why is Pop overplaying Bonner?

Bonner absolutely stinks. He's gotta be shooting close to 0% inside. Splitter played well and never got anymore minutes in the second half. We're not going anywhere with Bonner and I'd prefer it if he was traded. If we can trade both McDyess and Bonner, but get McDyess back then that might be a great trade because that means Pop would have no choice but to play Splitter. Pop needs his hand forced on this because Bonner just won't help us in the playoffs.

I am absolutely sick of the Spurs letting Dallas come into our house and rip us apart. It's happened too often over the last few seasons where we let Dallas manhandle us on our own court. Really pathetic display of toughness from the Spurs in this game.


I think that (even more since the Minesota game where Bonner sucked 80% of the game and finaly scored a couple big 3s in the end) Pop can't admit that sometimes Bonner is not in a good day offensively and has nothing to do on the floor...

Add the fact that Pop doesn't want (rightfully) to overplay McDyess (who proved during last PO to be helpfull against Dirk) and his apparent lack of trust in Splitter... you do the maths!

Concerning the last part of your post, I think Pop doesn't give a shit of the rivalry with the mavs, for him it's just another game and doesn't seem to prepare the team specialy for a derby...

When they meet, the mavs are definetely hungrier than the spurs during the regular season...

[TJastal]

The Mavericks broadcasters mentined something interesting. Bonner has shot 21 of 36 from three point range (58%) and has shot 3 of 24 from two point range (12.5%).

Did they mention Bonner's zero turnovers as well? Cuz that is such an important stat for a guy who is averaging less than 1 assist a game and all.

[UnWantedTheory]

Read it again. I gave Blair credit for doing some surprisingly good work against Nowitzki. I followed that up by saying that good work didn't slow down Nowitzki. I didn't attribute Nowitzki's shooting to Blair.

Again, I think you need to go back and read. It was all mentioned.
As much as I agree with your grades...to be fair, the Blair assessment was vague in regard to the Nowitzki results. When you say Blair "obviously didnt slow Nowitzki down at all as Nowitzki finished 12-14 from the field for 26 points." can be misleading....since he only played 13 minutes. I am not saying I agree with itsoweezee's overall "attribution theory" , but I can understand the reaction. But overall a very good job. I enjoy your comments & grades. I also thank you for your dedication & work. It is very much appreciated.

[objective]

Yes, it was like a playoff game where Dirk was unstoppable (as he's been the last week or so, not just against the Spurs), Parker had a bad game, RJ was invisible and benched in crunch time and replaced by George Hill just like last year, Bonner was a brickfest, smallball reared it's head, Manu had his nose bloodied and so on.

But Spurs couldn't go undefeated the rest of the way, and the Mavs are a good team.

Hopefully in the playoffs Splitter will be getting many more minutes if not starting, all of the big three step up for postseason and Jefferson and Bonner will be playing much better ball than they displayed last playoffs.

[TJastal]

I think that (even more since the Minesota game where Bonner sucked 80% of the game and finaly scored a couple big 3s in the end) Pop can't admit that sometimes Bonner is not in a good day offensively and has nothing to do on the floor...

Add the fact that Pop doesn't want (rightfully) to overplay McDyess (who proved during last PO to be helpfull against Dirk) and his apparent lack of trust in Splitter... you do the maths!

Concerning the last part of your post, I think Pop doesn't give a shit of the rivalry with the mavs, for him it's just another game and doesn't seem to prepare the team specialy for a derby...

When they meet, the mavs are definetely hungrier than the spurs during the regular season...

Stop sugar coating, Pauleta.

You know this one hurt. Spurs blew a 13 game winning streak against their cross town rival, and did it in humiliating fashion. Parker's name is being trashed left and right in the media and that is starting to affect his play, IMO. Jefferson has curled up into a fetal position once again. Bonner is getting PT over Splitter, even though he can't do anything but shoot 3's against sub .500 teams.

[dunkman]

Dallas was playing defense all the game, and they obviously had the Spurs well studied. The Spurs had a lot of TO's but that was by design. The Spurs couldn't shot long distance as they usually do, because the Mavs have counter plays. Then the players started driving, but the Mavs packed the line.

Pop should pay attention to this game, it exposed many weaknesses.

Splitter looked exhausted when he went to the bench. He's was used as Tim's backup. Since Duncan played 35 mpg, it left little time for him.

[TJastal]

Dallas was playing defense all the game, and they obviously had the Spurs well studied. The Spurs had a lot of TO's but that was by design. The Spurs couldn't shot long distance as they usually do, because the Mavs have counter plays. Then the players started driving, but the Mavs packed the line.

Pop should pay attention to this game, it exposed many weaknesses.

Splitter looked exhausted when he went to the bench. He's was used as Tim's backup. Since Duncan played 35 mpg, it left little time for him.

Well maybe Pop should use him with Duncan, ya think? And how about giving him Bonner's 23 minutes while were at it.

He couldn't possibly do a worse job defending Dirk, since that is the type of player he's been hyped up for years to be able to guard effectively.

[Ice009]

I think that (even more since the Minesota game where Bonner sucked 80% of the game and finaly scored a couple big 3s in the end) Pop can't admit that sometimes Bonner is not in a good day offensively and has nothing to do on the floor...

Add the fact that Pop doesn't want (rightfully) to overplay McDyess (who proved during last PO to be helpfull against Dirk) and his apparent lack of trust in Splitter... you do the maths!

Concerning the last part of your post, I think Pop doesn't give a shit of the rivalry with the mavs, for him it's just another game and doesn't seem to prepare the team specialy for a derby...

When they meet, the mavs are definetely hungrier than the spurs during the regular season...

So what do you think we should do with Bonner? What do you think about Bonner playing against the best teams in the NBA? Do you think he can help us in big games and the playoffs?

His shot is atrocious, it just seems to come out even worse for some reason when we play a top team that is really paying attention to him defensively. He needs time to set, but he ain't going to get that time in the playoffs or when a team really wants to pay close attention to him. On defense it becomes a joke and his rebounding is becoming awful. Ian looked better to me tonight that is how bad Bonner was.

RJ was a complete no show to. Absolutely horrible performance from RJ.

[WalterBenitez]

After a while without watching Spurs playing I went back, not the proper time I'd say, but ... what I look is we need extra help for Manu, TD, TP, when two of them aren't in a good nigth the other can't carry the team. :wakeup

Nice effort by Manu, Hill :toast, but I'm still wondering what could happen in Jefferson's mind after these games, not saying he was the reason we lost, but some of our guys have a low level floor in his bad nights, I mean TD in a bad night has a average level for a guy not named TD, but the rest aren't close.

Great to see Tiago making some good moves (my wife told me she loved his face and and how good is he going out of the court :p: )

Hey POP, give some rest to Manu he is getting old.

[Spurs Brazil]

Good read timvp

I didn't have complains about Tiago minutes until yesterday. Dice and Bonner were horrible, Tiago played well in the 2nd quarter and saw no action in the 2nd half

[TJastal]

Good read timvp

I didn't have complains about Tiago minutes until yesterday. Dice and Bonner were horrible, Tiago played well in the 2nd quarter and saw no action in the 2nd half

So Splitter getting 3 DNP's in the 4 games before that was acceptable?

[temujin]

The first big issue is playing Bonner and Jefferson in big games.
These two folks are nice kids, but clearly not big time basketball material and should only be played with mediocre teams, of which the NBA is literally filled.
Please no Lakers, Dallas nor Boston.

The second issue, partially connected to the first, is Splitter. Why is he getting so little/no playing time at this stage of the season? Lack of training camp is no excuse now. I think he was perfect to play Nowitski, but no. Let it be clear: the only -very slim- chance the Spurs have to make it to the Finals relies on Splitter being fully incorporated and contributing substantially. He could be a much bigger factor than Blair or Dice. It's hard to get into this role by playing 2/3' here and there plus garbage time.

The third issue is playing Ginobili so many minutes. This is going to back fire in the long run. Manu should be down to playing 28' max. If this means losing a few games, so be it. The season is off to a good start and that should be manageable.

[Spurs Brazil]

So Splitter getting 3 DNP's in the 4 games before that was acceptable?


For me it was, Dice and Bonner were doing fine.

Yesterday Tiago was better than both in the 2nd quarter and never played again

[TJastal]

For me it was, Dice and Bonner were doing fine.

Yesterday Tiago was better than both in the 2nd quarter and never played again

So you're saying as long as Dice & Bonner are doing ok during the regular season, Splitter should get DNP's?

[dunkman]

Well maybe Pop should use him with Duncan, ya think? And how about giving him Bonner's 23 minutes while were at it.

He couldn't possibly do a worse job defending Dirk, since that is the type of player he's been hyped up for years to be able to guard effectively.

Pop will make adjustments for the playoffs, at this point it's unnecessary to show too many counter plays, defensive schemes and offensive weapons. If the final goal is to win another championship, the Spurs need to be better in the standings than the Lakers to improve the possibilities to reach the finals.

One logical adjustment is to play Duncan and Splitter together, another is to bring Manu from the bench. The Spurs usually went more inside for scoring. Parker doesn't play P&R with Duncan, after setting the screen Splitter cuts to the basket, but never receives the ball, etc.

Blair was very effective against Dirk, but Pop introduced Bonner who struggled to make shots under defensive pressure.

[SenorSpur]

So what do you think we should do with Bonner? What do you think about Bonner playing against the best teams in the NBA? Do you think he can help us in big games and the playoffs?


Bonner should be handled like any other Spurs player, not named the Big Three. Whenever he's struggling, his miniutes should be limited. This is especially true of Bonner because he's a one-dimensional player. When he's not shooting well, and Pop overplays him, it can often result in negative consequences.

[diego]

my thoughts:

1) the front court is deep but the overall level is just average. no matter who is in, there is a glaring weakness, be it shooting, post play, post D, mobile D, passing, length, bulk, etc etc.

2) tony had a bad night, if not for that we likely win tonight; still, chandler is obviously a big improvement for the mavs.

3) pop needs to either settle on a rotation (especially since we were coming from a long win streak with a somewhat defined rotation) or go ahead and see what he has with splitter and neal. those guys will have a very hard time finding their roles on the team if pop is going to yank them around so much

4) manu can handle the minutes provided he is getting help during those minutes. but if he has to carry the offense for 33+, then yes it is detrimental in the long run. it hurt to see duncan fumble/miss some of the opportunities manu tried to create for him inside, we sorely missed those kind of easy assisted baskets

5) if i were pop/RC, I would explore trading any combination of blair/bonner/splitter/mcdyess/hill/RJ/neal for more proven all around players. you can only play 5 guys at a time; tim and manu can't carry 4 mediocre guys at a time anymore, and pop hasnt shown he can get the best of that kind of depth IMO. it feels like we have too many specialists around the big 3

[TJastal]

Bonner should be handled like any other Spurs player, not named the Big Three. Whenever he's struggling, his miniutes should be limited. This is especially true of Bonner because he's a one-dimensional player. When he's not shooting well, and Pop overplays him, it can often result in negative consequences.

Bonner should be on IR really, insurance against injury, and if activated he should only be used to rest veterans on B2B's. Instead, Pop has Splitter pretty much playing this role, which is absolutely retarded.

[yavozerb]

Bonner should be on IR really, insurance against injury, and if activated he should only be used to rest veterans on B2B's. Instead, Pop has Splitter pretty much playing this role, which is absolutely retarded.

Ya, lets put the leading 3pt shooter in the NBA on the bench for the whole game. Man, your basketball IQ is on par with some of the worst..

[Ice009]

5) if i were pop/RC, I would explore trading any combination of blair/bonner/splitter/mcdyess/hill/RJ/neal for more proven all around players. you can only play 5 guys at a time; tim and manu can't carry 4 mediocre guys at a time anymore, and pop hasnt shown he can get the best of that kind of depth IMO. it feels like we have too many specialists around the big 3

Hill is starting to play better so I wouldn't include him in a trade. Against one of our biggest rivals Hill just had a pretty good game. That's a great change compared to most of those other guys you listed that usually step down for these kind of challenges.

Splitter, you can't put on the trade block at all because he hasn't had anywhere near enough a chance to show what he can do. I really want to know what Pop is doing with him. Is he just resting him because he's played a lot of ball and wants to make sure he is in great shape before giving him more minutes? If he's ready to go and Pop is playing Bonner instead then it's absolutely idiotic.

Splitter needs to play so we can see how he fits into the team and if he's as good as we thought.

[rascal]

The Mavericks broadcasters mentined something interesting. Bonner has shot 21 of 36 from three point range (58%) and has shot 3 of 24 from two point range (12.5%).

Thats because most of his 3 point shots are uncontested shots. If there is any pressure on him his % tanks.

[TJastal]

Thats because most of his 3 point shots are uncontested shots. If there is any pressure on him his % tanks.

Bingo. Nobody is going to be leaving him wide open like they were before, so get ready to see Bonner doing alot of dribble penetration and running out of control sky hooks that he'll make once a blue moon in practices...

[Mal]

Pop C.

Pop killed the game in first minutes of 4th. Too weak lineup with ballhogging Parker. Mavs got some easy shots, and gain momentum.

[Pauleta14]

Stop sugar coating, Pauleta.

You know this one hurt. Spurs blew a 13 game winning streak against their cross town rival, and did it in humiliating fashion. Parker's name is being trashed left and right in the media and that is starting to affect his play, IMO. Jefferson has curled up into a fetal position once again. Bonner is getting PT over Splitter, even though he can't do anything but shoot 3's against sub .500 teams.

I think we'll have to wait the next few games to start making conclusions about TP and RJ, maybe you're right, but making those conclusions after ONE bad game is weird...

[diego]

Hill is starting to play better so I wouldn't include him in a trade. Against one of our biggest rivals Hill just had a pretty good game. That's a great change compared to most of those other guys you listed that usually step down for these kind of challenges.

Splitter, you can't put on the trade block at all because he hasn't had anywhere near enough a chance to show what he can do.

yes, hill played better. but if you need to package him with one or two lesser guys to get a player that can consistently fill a need, you sacrifice him. same with splitter. i'm not a trade guru, I dont know the other teams situations well enough to know who needs what and how the contracts match, nor do I pretend to know the ideal target for the spurs. but if you rate players 1-10, i feel in the frontcourt we have 4 players that are 5s, where I'd rather have 2 6s and 2 4s, or better yet 2 7s and 2 3s. the overall talent level is maybe the same, but I'd rather it be concentrated in the top two rotation players than spread out in this situation where dyess/blair/bonner/splitter are always going to be situational players. considering our two best players cover the 1-2-3 spots, you sacrifice hill if it can get you a better front court player.

[TJastal]

yes, hill played better. but if you need to package him with one or two lesser guys to get a player that can consistently fill a need, you sacrifice him. same with splitter. i'm not a trade guru, I dont know the other teams situations well enough to know who needs what and how the contracts match, nor do I pretend to know the ideal target for the spurs. but if you rate players 1-10, i feel in the frontcourt we have 4 players that are 5s, where I'd rather have 2 6s and 2 4s, or better yet 2 7s and 2 3s. the overall talent level is maybe the same, but I'd rather it be concentrated in the top two rotation players than spread out in this situation where dyess/blair/bonner/splitter are always going to be situational players. considering our two best players cover the 1-2-3 spots, you sacrifice hill if it can get you a better front court player.

So you're ready to write off Splitter and trade him off in order to find some other big that Pop will most likely sit in favor of Bonner. Not only that, you'd be fine having Gary Neal backing up both Parker and Manu logging 25 minutes a game at least.

All I can say is we're blessed here at spurstalk. Truly.

[spurtech09]

the whole team looked tired......the only one with alot of energy was splitta man.....

[Agloco]

The Mavericks broadcasters mentined something interesting. Bonner has shot 21 of 36 from three point range (58%) and has shot 3 of 24 from two point range (12.5%).

Yeah, I noticed this a few games back. Anytime Bonner touches the ball for more than 2 seconds in any given offensive possession, there's usually trouble.

It kinda reminds me of Bruce. If he got his feet set and fired from a spot, it was usually money. Once he put it on the floor though, it was nothing but ugly.

[ElNono]

Ya, lets put the leading 3pt shooter in the NBA on the bench for the whole game.

Well, how long would you play him then? Honest question. Obviously, you rather look at the glass half full part of Matt. He's also among the worst 2pt shooters in the NBA, and a fairly subpar defender.
I think people got their discourse right in the offseason: He's a situational role player whose role should be minimal on a team with championship aspirations.
That doesn't mean to bench him for the whole game. It might mean to bench him on some specific games, and play him more in others. If he has the hot hand, you ride it, and if he doesn't he sits down. Finding that balance might be easier said than done, but after three seasons with the team, it's not that hard to identify some of those situations. A good example is what timvp mentions in the OP: Matt normally does lays an egg against Dallas. Give him 10 mins to see if he can contribute, and if he doesn't move on to something else.

[TJastal]

Well, how long would you play him then? Honest question. Obviously, you rather look at the glass half full part of Matt. He's also among the worst 2pt shooters in the NBA, and a fairly subpar defender.
I think people got their discourse right in the offseason: He's a situational role player whose role should be minimal on a team with championship aspirations.
That doesn't mean to bench him for the whole game. It might mean to bench him on some specific games, and play him more in others. If he has the hot hand, you ride it, and if he doesn't he sits down. Finding that balance might be easier said than done, but after three seasons with the team, it's not that hard to identify some of those situations. A good example is what timvp mentions in the OP: Matt normally does lays an egg against Dallas. Give him 10 mins to see if he can contribute, and if he doesn't move on to something else.

I'm really even tired of the whole idea of "riding Bonner's hot hand" to cheesy regular season wins. It's counterproductive when all it means is your 25 year old 7 foot prospect rides the pine instead. Splitter needs those minutes to develop even if he makes mistakes and costs the spurs a few wins along the way.

[RodNIc91]

Timvp two questions. First, was just me or did dice get hurt? I think he was limping after that putback in the fourth. Second, in SA dispatch I havent seen again Game thoughts, are they over?

[SA210]

Well, how long would you play him then? Honest question. Obviously, you rather look at the glass half full part of Matt. He's also among the worst 2pt shooters in the NBA, and a fairly subpar defender.
I think people got their discourse right in the offseason: He's a situational role player whose role should be minimal on a team with championship aspirations.
That doesn't mean to bench him for the whole game. It might mean to bench him on some specific games, and play him more in others. If he has the hot hand, you ride it, and if he doesn't he sits down. Finding that balance might be easier said than done, but after three seasons with the team, it's not that hard to identify some of those situations. A good example is what timvp mentions in the OP: Matt normally does lays an egg against Dallas. Give him 10 mins to see if he can contribute, and if he doesn't move on to something else.

This

[spurs10]

I only saw the game at the end of the 3rd and the 4th quarters. Hill looked good out there, and everyone one else was struggling. Tim and Manu came back in when Dallas was gaining momentum. Wonder if we'll ever see Tiago out there with Tim, we seemed pretty vulnerable under the basket and our perimeter shots weren't falling. From what I've read TP had a bad night, which very well could have been partially responsible for RJ's setback and the loss all together. Dallas looked all happy and when you can't stand them, that's hard to take. Hope we rebound on Sunday...it'll be tough.

[Agloco]

Bonner should be on IR really, insurance against injury, and if activated he should only be used to rest veterans on B2B's. Instead, Pop has Splitter pretty much playing this role, which is absolutely retarded.

The only thing/person that's retarded around these parts is you. Bench the leading 3-point shooter in the NBA because he got abused by one of the elite players in the league. :rolleyes

[itzsoweezee]

The only thing/person that's retarded around these parts is you. Bench the leading 3-point shooter in the NBA because he got abused by one of the elite players in the league. :rolleyes

He's also one of the worst, if not the worst, 2-point shooters in the NBA. He's a horrible defender, and can't rebound worth shit.

I wouldn't bench him completely. But his minutes need to be limited to about 10-12 per game. He's a situational player and Popovich is giving him starter minutes. It's absolutely insane.

[TJastal]

The only thing/person that's retarded around these parts is you. Bench the leading 3-point shooter in the NBA because he got abused by one of the elite players in the league. :rolleyes

He should be benched when he's not hitting his shots, and never used against elite players in the first place. :ihit

At the very least he ought to be the 5th big, battling Blair for minutes depending on matchups. But Pop feels Bonner is more of a 2nd or 3rd big who should be in the game at crunch time because once in awhile he'll hit a friggin' 3 pointer against a scrub team.

We should be riding that 25 year old stallion named Splitter at 28-30 minutes a game by now.

[TJastal]

He's also one of the worst, if not the worst, 2-point shooters in the NBA. He's a horrible defender, and can't rebound worth shit.

I wouldn't bench him completely. But his minutes need to be limited to about 10-12 per game. He's a situational player and Popovich is giving him starter minutes. It's absolutely insane.

This.

[dunkman]

my thoughts:

1) the front court is deep but the overall level is just average. no matter who is in, there is a glaring weakness, be it shooting, post play, post D, mobile D, passing, length, bulk, etc etc.

2) tony had a bad night, if not for that we likely win tonight; still, chandler is obviously a big improvement for the mavs.

3) pop needs to either settle on a rotation (especially since we were coming from a long win streak with a somewhat defined rotation) or go ahead and see what he has with splitter and neal. those guys will have a very hard time finding their roles on the team if pop is going to yank them around so much

4) manu can handle the minutes provided he is getting help during those minutes. but if he has to carry the offense for 33+, then yes it is detrimental in the long run. it hurt to see duncan fumble/miss some of the opportunities manu tried to create for him inside, we sorely missed those kind of easy assisted baskets

5) if i were pop/RC, I would explore trading any combination of blair/bonner/splitter/mcdyess/hill/RJ/neal for more proven all around players. you can only play 5 guys at a time; tim and manu can't carry 4 mediocre guys at a time anymore, and pop hasnt shown he can get the best of that kind of depth IMO. it feels like we have too many specialists around the big 3

I think that the Spurs are good at the SF position with Jefferson having improved his game, Manu sometimes when Pop uses the Parker - Hill back court.

But the bigman roation isn't so good compared to other teams. While the Spurs seldom get outrebounded, they allow a lot of points in the paint and the bigman offense isn't what it was.

In the Mavs game, when the Spurs wanted to go inside for scoring, Duncan and the other bigs had trouble catching the ball from the player driving that collapses the defense.

However, there should be more isolation plays for Duncan to post-up also P&R. Splitter excells in P&R.

Pop should design something with good looks. The bigman offense should be more fluid.

[Chomag]

That's really the whole deal though isn't it? Spurs are extremely deep, There is no reason that a player as situational as Bonner is, should be getting this many minutes when you have so much talent on the team to work with.

[Agloco]

He's also one of the worst, if not the worst, 2-point shooters in the NBA. He's a horrible defender, and can't rebound worth shit.

I wouldn't bench him completely. But his minutes need to be limited to about 10-12 per game. He's a situational player and Popovich is giving him starter minutes. It's absolutely insane.

I'm inclined to agree. However, the problem I have with this argument is that if the Spurs had won, we wouldn't be having this discussion at all. It was all good until the Spurs lost one.

Having said that, I think going forward we need to evaluate Bonners ability to get his 3 off against various teams (not his D). Once he puts it on the floor, its generally a bad outcome.


He should be benched when he's not hitting his shots, and never used against elite players in the first place. :ihit

At the very least he ought to be the 5th big, battling Blair for minutes depending on matchups. But Pop feels Bonner is more of a 2nd or 3rd big who should be in the game at crunch time because once in awhile he'll hit a friggin' 3 pointer against a scrub team.

We should be riding that 25 year old stallion named Splitter at 28-30 minutes a game by now.

He definitely a 3rd or 4th Big, not a 5th. Problem is, you're on record as wanting to bench Bonner altogether while agreeing with statements such as the one itsoweeze posted above. You cant have it both ways.

Splitter isnt ready for prime time yet. He'll be getting those minutes later in the season I suspect.

[TJastal]

I'm inclined to agree. However, the problem I have with this argument is that if the Spurs had won, we wouldn't be having this discussion at all. It was all good until the Spurs lost one.

Having said that, I think going forward we need to evaluate Bonners ability to get his 3 off against various teams (not his D). Once he puts it on the floor, its generally a bad outcome.



He definitely a 3rd or 4th Big, not a 5th. Problem is, you're on record as wanting to bench Bonner altogether while agreeing with statements such as the one itsoweeze posted above. You cant have it both ways.

Splitter isnt ready for prime time yet. He'll be getting those minutes later in the season I suspect.

That's why I precluded my statement by saying "at the very least" .. do you understand what that means?

[Mel_13]

That's why I precluded my statement by saying "at the very least" .. do you understand what that means?

Do you?

:lmao

[TJastal]

Do you?

:lmao

"prefaced" is what I meant

[Agloco]

That's why I precluded my statement by saying "at the very least" .. do you understand what that means?


Do you?

:lmao

This is why I love hanging around a conversation that TJastals involved in.

All you need to do is give him some rope and watch as he goes to work hanging himself.

Good stuff once again. :lol


In the spirit of the holiday season: The word you're looking for is prefaced

[TJastal]

This is why I love hanging around a conversation that TJastals involved in.

All you need to do is give him some rope and watch as he goes to work hanging himself.

Good stuff once again. :lol


In the spirit of the holiday season: The word you're looking for is prefaced

I'm glad your having your jollies correcting my grammar and vocab. /yawn

[jjktkk]

This is why I love hanging around a conversation that TJastals involved in.

All you need to do is give him some rope and watch as he goes to work hanging himself.

Good stuff once again. :lol


In the spirit of the holiday season: The word you're looking for is prefaced

+1. So true. If I wanted to do drugs, Tjastal is the first guy I would look to and ask him to recommend some good hallucingenics.

[TJastal]

+1. So true. If I wanted to do drugs, Tjastal is the first guy I would look to and ask him to recommend some good hallucingenics.

I don't sell drugs to inbreds. I figure their lives are tough enough...

[jjktkk]

I don't sell drugs to inbreds. I figure their lives are tough enough...

Bob Hill, is that you?

[Agloco]

I'm glad your having your jollies correcting my grammar and vocab. /yawn

Someone's gotta do it. I want you as presentable as possible before people destroy your arguments; or rather before you destroy your own. :lol

Happy Holidays. One can only hope that you rise above your blind Bonner/Pop hate enough to at least acknowledge their accomplishments of late.

[SenorSpur]

That doesn't mean to bench him for the whole game. It might mean to bench him on some specific games, and play him more in others. If he has the hot hand, you ride it, and if he doesn't he sits down. Finding that balance might be easier said than done, but after three seasons with the team, it's not that hard to identify some of those situations. A good example is what timvp mentions in the OP: Matt normally does lays an egg against Dallas. Give him 10 mins to see if he can contribute, and if he doesn't move on to something else.

Sterling points, here.:toast

Pop implores the very same strategy with Blair. There are some teams who prevent serious matchup issues that ultimately neutralize Blair's effectiveness. We saw that last night against the Mavs, where Blair's minutes were limited. I don't see where Bonner is above similar treatment. He's a valauble contributor against certain teams, primarily when he's knocking down shots and spacing the floor. Despite him being a big body, we all know that rebounding, defense and shotblocking are not his strong suits. He's certainly not on the floor because of his prowess in those areas. His limitations mean that he's got a low ceiling - especially against a team like Dallas and the Fakers.

ElNono is spot on here. There's no way Bonner should garner a 30+ minute against an opponent where he's ice cold from the arc and an obvious liability in every other phase of the game.

[SenorSpur]

I think that the Spurs are good at the SF position with Jefferson having improved his game, Manu sometimes when Pop uses the Parker - Hill back court.

But the bigman roation isn't so good compared to other teams. While the Spurs seldom get outrebounded, they allow a lot of points in the paint and the bigman offense isn't what it was.

In the Mavs game, when the Spurs wanted to go inside for scoring, Duncan and the other bigs had trouble catching the ball from the player driving that collapses the defense.

However, there should be more isolation plays for Duncan to post-up also P&R. Splitter excells in P&R.

Pop should design something with good looks. The bigman offense should be more fluid.

To understand the limitations and shortcomings of the Spurs frontcourt, all one has to do is remember the Phoenix series. That was not a one-time abberration, that was an indictment as to the age, physical limimtations, and lack of versatility of that frontcourt unit, as a whole.

Fast forward a few months, and we've seen glimpses of the contributions of Tiago Splitter, who was supposed to be a helpful antidote to some of those woes. Regardless of why he's being sparingly utlized up to this point, Splitter's absence from the regular rotation, means the Spurs glaring defensive deficiencies are on full display again. They are again susceptible to giving up points in the paint, second chance rebounds and being vulnerable to the pick and rolls.

Now that Duncan is in decline, there just isn't enough collective contributions from the other frontcourt players, on a nightly basis, to offset loss of his brillant, all-star level production.

[Obstructed_View]

Matt Bonner can get four to six three point shots a game without playing 30 minutes or guarding players like Dirk for the nearly the entire fourth quarter. People that don't understand this reality need ot pull their head out of their ass.

[ChumpDumper]

We should be riding that 25 year old stallion named Splitter at 28-30 minutes a game by now.That would pretty much guarantee an injury.

[Manufan909]

the whole team looked tired......the only one with alot of energy was splitta man.....

Someone else said Splitter looked exhausted when he sat down. Which is it?

[Obstructed_View]

That would pretty much guarantee an injury.

Oh shit! Someone needs to tell Pop that before Duncan, Manu, Parker, Jefferson or Hill get hurt because they're all playing that many minutes. Perhaps Pop should go to that "DNP for two games" strategy that's keeping Splitter's fragile body in one piece.


:lol Saving Splitter from injury. Maybe he'll be fresh for the summer.

[TJastal]

That would pretty much guarantee an injury.

Baloney. He'll have a bigger chance of injury playing sporadic minutes every other game like he is now, cuz his body won't be in any kind of conditioning.

Get him into game shape and he'll put in 40 minutes a game without a limp or a hitch I'll wager.

[TJastal]

Oh shit! Someone needs to tell Pop that before Duncan, Manu, Parker, Jefferson or Hill get hurt because they're all playing that many minutes. Perhaps Pop should go to that "DNP for two games" strategy that's keeping Splitter's fragile body in one piece.


:lol Saving Splitter from injury. Maybe he'll be fresh for the summer.

:lmao :owned

[UnWantedTheory]

Oh shit! Someone needs to tell Pop that before Duncan, Manu, Parker, Jefferson or Hill get hurt because they're all playing that many minutes. Perhaps Pop should go to that "DNP for two games" strategy that's keeping Splitter's fragile body in one piece.


:lol Saving Splitter from injury. Maybe he'll be fresh for the summer.
:lmao

[Manufan909]

Oh shit! Someone needs to tell Pop that before Duncan, Manu, Parker, Jefferson or Hill get hurt because they're all playing that many minutes. Perhaps Pop should go to that "DNP for two games" strategy that's keeping Splitter's fragile body in one piece.


:lol Saving Splitter from injury. Maybe he'll be fresh for the summer.

I agree with TJastal that this post is pure ownage, but chumperdumper's post does have some merit. I would say Splitter could easily start averaging 20-25 minutes, but he did have an injury in the summer and missed a lot of time at the beginning of the season, plus Pop's incredibly random rotations haven't helped him truly get back his stamina. You're to quick to own people sometimes, man.:lol

And to comment on what senorspur said earlier iirc, I wish Bonner was given minutes entirely based on effectiveness, just like Blair. As well as Tiago, if he was the 2nd best big last night like everyone claimed, he should have gotten Bonner's 2nd half minutes.

[TD 21]

Watching this game, on a positive note, I can't help but watch these two teams play and feel like the pendulum of the rivalry has swung back into the Spurs' favor. At least, it felt that way before and during the game. We'll see if anything changes.

But the matchups are much better now and the confidence/swagger of both teams has changed quite a bit. The Spurs played like they weren't threatened at all and would eventually turn it on, which hasn't been the case in recent years -- the Mavs seemed to have the upper hand from '06 until last postseason.

The Spurs probably feel that way because they clearly have more talent now, which hasn't been the case in the past. If only their genius coach would play the right match-ups, they'd stomp this team regularly.

But instead, it's fun to let a 7-foot guy shoot up over the top of undersized, mediocre defenders, who have no business guarding him. McDyess should have started and he and Splitter should have taken turns defending him. I'd like to see if this overrated clown can throw up a 12-14 game (what 7-footer couldn't, with Blair, Bonner and Jefferson primarily defending him?) against those two.

Why did they even bother signing Splitter if he's not going to spend significant time guarding Nowitzki? I don't want to hear any excuse about "it's still early, he's still getting comfortable". All nonsense (It's clear he has no intentions of pairing Duncan-Splitter together). His length and mobility is theoretically a perfect match-up for Nowitzki. Instead, the coach treats Nowitzki like he's Bosh, Odom or Stoudemire and he's worried about getting killed off the dribble. Incredible. This loss falls on him.

When the Spurs play the Lakers or the Mavs, Blair needs to be stapled to the bench. There isn't a good match-up for him and every minute he plays, is one less minute that McDyess or Splitter plays. Small ball (I'll include Bonner in that...he can't play 20 minutes a game against those teams) isn't going to cut it against teams that have that much size and length. The answer isn't to go small; it's to go big. When will this coach figure this out?

[Obstructed_View]

I agree with TJastal that this post is pure ownage, but chumperdumper's post does have some merit. I would say Splitter could easily start averaging 20-25 minutes, but he did have an injury in the summer and missed a lot of time at the beginning of the season, plus Pop's incredibly random rotations haven't helped him truly get back his stamina. You're to quick to own people sometimes, man.:lol

And to comment on what senorspur said earlier iirc, I wish Bonner was given minutes entirely based on effectiveness, just like Blair. As well as Tiago, if he was the 2nd best big last night like everyone claimed, he should have gotten Bonner's 2nd half minutes.

If Splitter were getting a few minutes every game, I'd be on board with the guys that suggest Pop's bringing him along slowly, and I'd be preaching patience.

Let's not pretend that the current, haphazard substitution pattern by Pop has anything to do with concerns for Splitter's health. People like to make the case that Splitter is injury prone when it suits them. If he is, they should be questioning Pop about his usage of Splitter, because the sub patterns would be the worst possible thing for an injury prone guy. Furthermore, if Pop were concerned about Splitter's wind, he'd be playing him. You can't watch a player sit for two or three games and then say "well it's no wonder the coach doesn't play him, he looked tired."

Splitter either needs to be rested until he's completely healthy or he needs to get the damn minutes.

[jjktkk]

matt bonner can get four to six three point shots a game without playing 30 minutes or guarding players like dirk for the nearly the entire fourth quarter. People that don't understand this reality need ot pull their head out of their ass.

+1.

[jjktkk]

to understand the limitations and shortcomings of the spurs frontcourt, all one has to do is remember the phoenix series. That was not a one-time abberration, that was an indictment as to the age, physical limimtations, and lack of versatility of that frontcourt unit, as a whole.

Fast forward a few months, and we've seen glimpses of the contributions of tiago splitter, who was supposed to be a helpful antidote to some of those woes. Regardless of why he's being sparingly utlized up to this point, splitter's absence from the regular rotation, means the spurs glaring defensive deficiencies are on full display again. They are again susceptible to giving up points in the paint, second chance rebounds and being vulnerable to the pick and rolls.

Now that duncan is in decline, there just isn't enough collective contributions from the other frontcourt players, on a nightly basis, to offset loss of his brillant, all-star level production.

+1.

[Ice009]

yes, hill played better. but if you need to package him with one or two lesser guys to get a player that can consistently fill a need, you sacrifice him. same with splitter. i'm not a trade guru, I dont know the other teams situations well enough to know who needs what and how the contracts match, nor do I pretend to know the ideal target for the spurs. but if you rate players 1-10, i feel in the frontcourt we have 4 players that are 5s, where I'd rather have 2 6s and 2 4s, or better yet 2 7s and 2 3s. the overall talent level is maybe the same, but I'd rather it be concentrated in the top two rotation players than spread out in this situation where dyess/blair/bonner/splitter are always going to be situational players. considering our two best players cover the 1-2-3 spots, you sacrifice hill if it can get you a better front court player.

The thing with George Hill is he has played some of his best games against Dallas and the Lakers. He raised his game against those teams last season and he did it again in his first game against Dallas. Maybe it's a coincidence that he had his best game of the season against Dallas as he's just rounding into form, but most of the players on the team shrivel up against these teams and give us nothing in the last few years.

90% of the players in the NBA shrivel up against LA so even if you trade Hill for someone better there's no guarantee that guy will show up against our biggest rivals LA and Dallas. George Hill has shown up against those teams 90% of the time.

Guys like Matt Bonner and RJ seem to be the ones that disappear against our biggest rivals when we need them the most. That is the problem.

[TD 21]

No question Bonner has disappeared against the Mavs and the Lakers. Offensively, there is no excuse. Defensively, he simply has no chance at adequately defending Nowitzki, Gasol and Odom.

It never matters to this coach, though, who apparently thinks it's fun to play him plenty against those teams and watch as those players destroy him.

Short of it being a no-brainer type trade, I wouldn't trade Hill. He's a good fit on this team. Blair, on the other hand, isn't. I wouldn't shop Blair per se, but if this team could acquire a better fit up front, I'd be open to trading him.

Blair is a terrible match-up against the Lakers and the Mavs. Unfortunately, they're the best and (probably) the third best teams in the conference. If this team has designs on going far in the playoffs, they'll have to go through at least one of, if not both of them.

This season, it's simple, come the playoffs, he can be the fifth big. What about next season, though, when McDyess is retired? Since this coach refuses to play Duncan and Splitter together, is a PF combination of Blair and Bonner supposed to suffice against the Lakers and the Mavs? Because it has no chance to.

[Obstructed_View]

Blair arguably played better against Dirk than anyone on the Spurs team last night.

[jjktkk]

No question Bonner has disappeared against the Mavs and the Lakers. Offensively, there is no excuse. Defensively, he simply has no chance at adequately defending Nowitzki, Gasol and Odom.

It never matters to this coach, though, who apparently thinks it's fun to play him plenty against those teams and watch as those players destroy him.

Short of it being a no-brainer type trade, I wouldn't trade Hill. He's a good fit on this team. Blair, on the other hand, isn't. I wouldn't shop Blair per se, but if this team could acquire a better fit up front, I'd be open to trading him.

Blair is a terrible match-up against the Lakers and the Mavs. Unfortunately, they're the best and (probably) the third best teams in the conference. If this team has designs on going far in the playoffs, they'll have to go through at least one of, if not both of them.

This season, it's simple, come the playoffs, he can be the fifth big. What about next season, though, when McDyess is retired? Since this coach refuses to play Duncan and Splitter together, is a PF combination of Blair and Bonner supposed to suffice against the Lakers and the Mavs? Because it has no chance to.

Whose to say Pop won't play Splitter and Duncan together eventually? The season just started. But if he doesn't, I would prefer Dyess and Duncan starting.

[jjktkk]

Blair arguably played better against Dirk than anyone on the Spurs team last night.

Last year in the playoffs, McDyess guarded Dirk resonably well. Not so much last night. I wonder if Splitter will get a shot at Dirk this season.

[angelbelow]

Last year in the playoffs, McDyess guarded Dirk resonably well. Not so much last night. I wonder if Splitter will get a shot at Dirk this season.

Theoretically hes going to be our best option. Dice has the combination of strength mobility that our other bigs didn't possess last year and certainly did a great job. Splitter probably isnt has strong but I think hes quicker... in other words, I sure as hell we get to see Splitter on dirk..


Whose to say Pop won't play Splitter and Duncan together eventually? The season just started. But if he doesn't, I would prefer Dyess and Duncan starting.

The point that hes trying to get at (i think) is a good, you have to experiment during the regular season with match-ups against teams that you will potentially face in the playoffs to see what could work. Giving Tiago or blair a healthy amount of opportunities to guard Dirk can really help our game planning in the future.

[The Truth #6]

The thing with George Hill is he has played some of his best games against Dallas and the Lakers. He raised his game against those teams last season and he did it again in his first game against Dallas. Maybe it's a coincidence that he had his best game of the season against Dallas as he's just rounding into form, but most of the players on the team shrivel up against these teams and give us nothing in the last few years.

90% of the players in the NBA shrivel up against LA so even if you trade Hill for someone better there's no guarantee that guy will show up against our biggest rivals LA and Dallas. George Hill has shown up against those teams 90% of the time.Guys like Matt Bonner and RJ seem to be the ones that disappear against our biggest rivals when we need them the most. That is the problem.


I speculated last night that Hill plays well against Dallas because the rivalry with Dallas, and perhaps playing against Barrera specifically, inspires him to play better. Timvp suggested Hill does better against Dallas because of matchups and how they defend, which helps Hill's game. It's hard to prove my point (something to the effect that Hill's problem is usually psychological/mental and/or lack of motivation) but if Hill does well against LA as well, then Timvp's point (which I roughly paraphrased) is probably right. Playing against LA, ie playing against Fisher, another short slow guard, probably plays to Hill's advantage.

Dallas and LA are definitely more important and better teams, but the matchups and defensive schemes might just favor Hill more.

Hard to say. I'm still trying to figure out why Hill struggles more often than he succeeds.

[Sisk]

On the plus side, his defense remained a bright spot for much of the affair.

http://captionsearch.com/pix/2rub7eoeem.jpg

[jjktkk]

The point that hes trying to get at (i think) is a good, you have to experiment during the regular season with match-ups against teams that you will potentially face in the playoffs to see what could work. Giving Tiago or blair a healthy amount of opportunities to guard Dirk can really help our game planning in the future.


It is a long season, so I'm sure Pop will continue to expierment with different lineups.

[TD 21]

Whose to say Pop won't play Splitter and Duncan together eventually? The season just started. But if he doesn't, I would prefer Dyess and Duncan starting.

It's clear he has no intentions of doing that, save for maybe a brief stretch or two each game against the Lakers. If that were something that was going to become a fixture later in the season, he'd be playing them together now and letting them get used to one another, so that they can forge some type of chemistry.

He can't play them together sparingly (that's an understatement) all season, then if/when this team runs into the Lakers, think all of a sudden that he can rely on them to play significant minutes together.

At this point, Duncan has probably forgotten what it's like to play next to a guy above 6-9, who can move and help him protect the rim. I don't think it would be a massive undertaking, but there's got to be some type of adjustment there.

[Obstructed_View]

It is a long season, so I'm sure Pop will continue to expierment with different lineups.

If Pop were experimenting with lineups Duncan and Splitter would have gotten a look or there would have been some attempts to run Blair or Bonner at the small forward position. He only experiments with lineups within what he has already decided to do. Pop made a statement before the season started to the effect that Splitter was going to be backing up Duncan. I actually posted up at the time that the good feeling I had about Splitter was beginning to fade.

[Obstructed_View]

Last year in the playoffs, McDyess guarded Dirk resonably well. Not so much last night. I wonder if Splitter will get a shot at Dirk this season.

Yes he did. I was simply replying to the person who declared Blair "a terrible matchup with Dallas and LA" as justification for trading him with no regard for how he played against Dallas less than 24 hours ago.

It's pretty clear that he's not ready to be a starting center for the Spurs, but he's capable of playing defense and he's got virtually no trade value from a monetary standpoint.

[jjktkk]

If Pop were experimenting with lineups Duncan and Splitter would have gotten a look or there would have been some attempts to run Blair or Bonner at the small forward position.

Why would Pop expierment trying Blair, and/or Bonner at the 3 spot? Both Blair and Bonner struggle enough enough as it is guarding quicker athletic 4s, let alone 3s. That would be setting them both up for failure IMO.


He only experiments with lineups within what he has already decided to do. Pop made a statement before the season started to the effect that Splitter was going to be backing up Duncan. I actually posted up at the time that the good feeling I had about Splitter was beginning to fade.

Even if Splitter doesn't start games this season, I fully believe Splitter will be a top reserve before the playoffs start this year, if not sooner, eventually taking minutes from Bonner, and Blair, as well as McDyess.

[TD 21]

Yes he did. I was simply replying to the person who declared Blair "a terrible matchup with Dallas and LA" as justification for trading him with no regard for how he played against Dallas less than 24 hours ago.

It's pretty clear that he's not ready to be a starting center for the Spurs, but he's capable of playing defense and he's got virtually no trade value from a monetary standpoint.

So you think he matches up well with Gasol, Odom or Nowitzki?

I didn't say I'd shop Blair or look to trade him, I said if the Spurs can get a better fit, I'd be okay with them moving him. It's not an indictment of Blair and it's not that I'm down on him or dislike him, though. It's just that the reality of the situation is, he's not a great fit as far as getting past the top teams in the playoffs goes.

[jjktkk]

If Pop were experimenting with lineups Duncan and Splitter would have gotten a look or there would have been some attempts to run Blair or Bonner at the small forward position. He only experiments with lineups within what he has already decided to do. Pop made a statement before the season started to the effect that Splitter was going to be backing up Duncan. I actually posted up at the time that the good feeling I had about Splitter was beginning to fade.


Yes he did. I was simply replying to the person who declared Blair "a terrible matchup with Dallas and LA" as justification for trading him with no regard for how he played against Dallas less than 24 hours ago.

It's pretty clear that he's not ready to be a starting center for the Spurs, but he's capable of playing defense and he's got virtually no trade value from a monetary standpoint.

I agree with you about Blair. Might not be starting material right now, but way too early to give up on him. Blair is a really good basketball player, whose still trying to figure it out.

[Obstructed_View]

So you think he matches up well with Gasol, Odom or Nowitzki?
The reality is, Blair was the best matchup against Dirk last night, so yeah, I'd put him in against any of those guys and see how he can do. The problem isn't how he matches up, it's that he's a shit defender much of the time. THAT is what needs to be fixed. He's still got a role on this team, and it far outweighs any trade value he might have, unless you have an idea of a player that's so hugely underpaid on a rookie contract that the Spurs could get for him.


I didn't say I'd shop Blair or look to trade him, I said if the Spurs can get a better fit, I'd be okay with them moving him. It's not an indictment of Blair and it's not that I'm down on him or dislike him, though. It's just that the reality of the situation is, he's not a great fit as far as getting past the top teams in the playoffs goes.

That hardly matters, because there are good matchups and Pop refuses to try them. A guy like Blair is going to be a hell of a lot better than smallball, particularly smallball with Bonner as the center.

[Obstructed_View]

Why would Pop expierment trying Blair, and/or Bonner at the 3 spot? Both Blair and Bonner struggle enough enough as it is guarding quicker athletic 4s, let alone 3s. That would be setting them both up for failure IMO.
Because it could hardly go worse than putting Richard Jefferson in at center or power forward, it could hardly go worse than running smallball for long stretches, and it could hardly go worse than running Bonner out at the four or the five. Bonner can't keep ANYONE in front of him, and he's outmatched no matter who you assign him to defensively, so if you're going to put him out on the court, why not have him matched up against a guy that he has some length on with two shot blockers to guard the paint if and when the guy decides to go past him? With all due respect, I'd rather see it on the court than just accept your opinion. Spurs fans have been fed this shit that there's something to fear about having size on the court. Big teams win championships.


Even if Splitter doesn't start games this season, I fully believe Splitter will be a top reserve before the playoffs start this year, if not sooner, eventually taking minutes from Bonner, and Blair, as well as McDyess.
I fully believed Pop would see how bad the 2006 team was getting shredded without Rasho and Nazr. I fully believed Pop would see that the Spurs needed Bowen and Hill against the Mavericks before it was too late. I fully believed Ian Mahinmi was going to start getting minutes when he tore up the Nets the way he did. I was wrong every single time. I have very little faith in Pop's common sense when it comes to common sense basketball decisions. I'll be REALLY happy if it turns out the way you say, though. :toast

[TD 21]

The reality is, Blair was the best matchup against Dirk last night, so yeah, I'd put him in against any of those guys and see how he can do. The problem isn't how he matches up, it's that he's a shit defender much of the time. THAT is what needs to be fixed. He's still got a role on this team, and it far outweighs any trade value he might have, unless you have an idea of a player that's so hugely underpaid on a rookie contract that the Spurs could get for him.



That hardly matters, because there are good matchups and Pop refuses to try them. A guy like Blair is going to be a hell of a lot better than smallball, particularly smallball with Bonner as the center.

You're going to base Blair's ability to guard Nowitzki off of 13 minutes of playing time? They didn't even go to Nowitzki that much, particularly early. If they did, he probably would have scored over Blair at will. Blair should never guard Gasol or Nowitzki.

The problem is how he matches up. Even if he were to play good defense, he has no chance to adequately guard either. The first possession yesterday was a perfect example. They ran Nowitzki off a down screen and got him a free throw line jumper. Blair defended it well, yet he still hit it with ease, because Blair can't bother his shot.

He doesn't guard mobile bigs all that well, but what's worse, is his lack of height. People can talk about his length all they want, it makes no difference with 7-footers, because they can still easily shoot up over the top of him.

I got no ideas. Just saying if there were a deal out there like the one I described, then I'd be okay with them moving him.

Getting past top teams in the playoffs hardly matters? Isn't that what it's all about? Against teams like the Lakers and Mavs, Blair is small ball.

[Cessation]

I agree. Whats the point of starting blair, even if he plays good during regular season, hell still get owned in the playoffs vs bigger and more skilled pfs of lakers and mavs.

Splitter should be starting, if he gets good, at least we have a real chance to challenge the other contenders.

Blair is perfect of the bench vs the 2nd string bigs of other teams, we know that already, its what he did all last year as a rookie, hell be even better this year.

[Obstructed_View]

You're going to base Blair's ability to guard Nowitzki off of 13 minutes of playing time? They didn't even go to Nowitzki that much, particularly early. If they did, he probably would have scored over Blair at will. Blair should never guard Gasol or Nowitzki.

The problem is how he matches up. Even if he were to play good defense, he has no chance to adequately guard either. The first possession yesterday was a perfect example. They ran Nowitzki off a down screen and got him a free throw line jumper. Blair defended it well, yet he still hit it with ease, because Blair can't bother his shot.

He doesn't guard mobile bigs all that well, but what's worse, is his lack of height. People can talk about his length all they want, it makes no difference with 7-footers, because they can still easily shoot up over the top of him.

I got no ideas. Just saying if there were a deal out there like the one I described, then I'd be okay with them moving him.

Getting past top teams in the playoffs hardly matters? Isn't that what it's all about? Against teams like the Lakers and Mavs, Blair is small ball.

I'd certainly rather base Blair's ability to match up against Nowitzki by the game they just played rather than your estimation that he doesn't match up well because he's too small. 13 minutes of reality beats the shit out of the baseless opinion of someone on a Spurs message board, thanks.

And no. Let's be clear: Three guards and no center is smallball. The reason Blair isn't a good compliment to Duncan isn't because he's too short, it's because he's a shitty defender a lot of the time, and THAT is what should cost him his starting job. It doesn't mean he's not capable of being a good defender, and if he puts it together I have no problem throwing him in against just about anyone.

If being unable to block Dirk Nowitzki's jumpshot is what makes a guy too short, then Bruce Bowen is the tallest motherfucker that ever played in the NBA.

[diego]

The thing with George Hill is he has played some of his best games against Dallas and the Lakers. He raised his game against those teams last season and he did it again in his first game against Dallas. Maybe it's a coincidence that he had his best game of the season against Dallas as he's just rounding into form, but most of the players on the team shrivel up against these teams and give us nothing in the last few years.

90% of the players in the NBA shrivel up against LA so even if you trade Hill for someone better there's no guarantee that guy will show up against our biggest rivals LA and Dallas. George Hill has shown up against those teams 90% of the time.

Guys like Matt Bonner and RJ seem to be the ones that disappear against our biggest rivals when we need them the most. That is the problem.

yes, but it will be difficult to trade guys that disappear for productive players, so you have to sweeten with good players, like hill, or splitter/blair and their potential + nice contracts. I like them as players, but they are not crucial to winning now.

against LA and dallas (especially now that they got chandler), we need better play from our bigs. Even if you believe Duncan is still capable of holding down the paint by himself against big teams like LA, Dallas, Boston, you dont want him doing that over 82 games. On top of that you consider his age and mileage, its clear Tim needs more help than manu and tony. with manu and tony playing the way they are, hill's importance is diminished. If it were up to me and I could turn hill + (neal or anderson) + bonner + blair + splitter + mcdyess (6 players!) into a wing defender who can shoot, a big who can rebound and defend very well and a big who can score and rebound even a little above average , I'd do it in a heart beat. I'd rather go have a short rotation of good to great players than a long rotation of average to good players.

As it is, we have a big who can shoot and rebound and defend, but only in spurts because of his age (dyess), an undersized PF who's only real value is 3pt shooting (bonner), an undersized PF who can score and rebound but needs to mature and even then will still be undersized (blair), and splitter. Splitter looks like he can become a solution to our problems, but how long will it take him to adapt to the NBA? to adapt to the team? to get healthy? and most important, to earn pop's trust? if you dont think the answer is within a year, then it makes sense to see what you can get back for him.

I'm not saying they all have to go either. But to me they are all expendable if you can get one player that is well-rounded enough to play extended minutes. When we face the Lakers and have to close out a game, we can't put dyess in to guard gasol one possession, then switch to bonner to open a driving lane the next, then switch to splitter to guard odom, then switch to blair to grab the rebound. we need a guy who can do at least two or three of those things at a time. right now, i'd guess that duncan + dyess is the best option for that, and its not a very encouraging option

as is the lakers will probably outrebound us and outscore us in the paint because of our lack of defense inside, not to mention make it much more difficult for us to score on them in the paint. the only way we can trump that is 3pt shooting (not going to happen in a series) or by improving our talent/size inside to take that advantage away from them. we have some good front court players, just not the kind we need to challenge them (or boston, and maybe not even dallas if chandler keeps playing like this)

[TD 21]

I'd certainly rather base Blair's ability to match up against Nowitzki by the game they just played rather than your estimation that he doesn't match up well because he's too small. 13 minutes of reality beats the shit out of the baseless opinion of someone on a Spurs message board, thanks.

And no. Let's be clear: Three guards and no center is smallball. The reason Blair isn't a good compliment to Duncan isn't because he's too short, it's because he's a shitty defender a lot of the time, and THAT is what should cost him his starting job. It doesn't mean he's not capable of being a good defender, and if he puts it together I have no problem throwing him in against just about anyone.

If being unable to block Dirk Nowitzki's jumpshot is what makes a guy too short, then Bruce Bowen is the tallest motherfucker that ever played in the NBA.

Apparently you didn't see him struggle mightily when guarding those players (particularly Gasol) last season.

Against teams that have the type of size and length the Lakers and Mavs have amongst their bigs, Blair constitutes small ball. He's not a big enough big to make any sort of positive impact against those two teams. He's a shitty defender against guys like Nowitzki and Gasol, in large part, because of how short he is. People can talk about Hayes all they want; guys like that are extremely rare. Generally speaking, you put a guy like Blair on guys like that, you're asking to get destroyed.

I don't care whether he's capable of becoming adequate defensively or not, this is not about developing someone the team can win without. This is about what gives this team the best chance this season and when they play elite or near elite teams, there best chance is with Blair stapled to the bench.

It's not about blocking Nowitzki's shot, it's about being able to bother it and make him work. McDyess proved in the playoffs last season that he was able to do that. Blair isn't.

[Obstructed_View]

Apparently you didn't see him struggle mightily when guarding those players (particularly Gasol) last season.

Against teams that have the type of size and length the Lakers and Mavs have amongst their bigs, Blair constitutes small ball. He's not a big enough big to make any sort of positive impact against those two teams. He's a shitty defender against guys like Nowitzki and Gasol, in large part, because of how short he is. People can talk about Hayes all they want; guys like that are extremely rare. Generally speaking, you put a guy like Blair on guys like that, you're asking to get destroyed.

I don't care whether he's capable of becoming adequate defensively or not, this is not about developing someone the team can win without. This is about what gives this team the best chance this season and when they play elite or near elite teams, there best chance is with Blair stapled to the bench.

It's not about blocking Nowitzki's shot, it's about being able to bother it and make him work. McDyess proved in the playoffs last season that he was able to do that. Blair isn't.

I gotta tell you that your bar's a little high if you're passing judgment on him for last season against the best players in the NBA. And if you want him "stapled to the bench" based on that, then you're asking for a lot of smallball with Bonner as your center, and the Spurs ain't winning shit like that. Blair can rebound, he's got good hands, he's a huge energy guy who's very clever around the basket, and he's capable of playing and defending far better than he has thus far.

He should be on the bench to start the game, it's true, but you're a fool if you think he shouldn't be coming off it at some point to help the team.

[TD 21]

I gotta tell you that your bar's a little high if you're passing judgment on him for last season against the best players in the NBA. And if you want him "stapled to the bench" based on that, then you're asking for a lot of smallball with Bonner as your center, and the Spurs ain't winning shit like that. Blair can rebound, he's got good hands, he's a huge energy guy who's very clever around the basket, and he's capable of playing and defending far better than he has thus far.

He should be on the bench to start the game, it's true, but you're a fool if you think he shouldn't be coming off it at some point to help the team.

He doesn't have the tools necessary to adequately defend those players, rookie or not.

I want him stapled to the bench against elite teams, which is entirely different than stapled to the bench in general.

I'm not "asking for a lot of small ball". I'm talking about starting McDyess and making Splitter the first big off the bench.