2 year pay freeze for federal workers ?

[lefty]

According to Obama...

America's Debt Crisis (http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/fixing_crisis/)
Obama calls for federal wage freeze

By Charles Riley, staff reporterNovember 29, 2010: 11:49 AM ET


NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- President Obama on Monday will call for a two-year freeze in the wages of federal employees.
The freeze, which would save $60 billion over 10 years, would make a small dent in the nation's debt problem. The accumulated deficits are currently forecast to exceed $9 trillion over the next decade.


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Quick Vote
What do you think of President Obama's $60-billion federal worker pay freeze?


It's a step in the right direction
Not enough money saved, don't bother


or View results (http://money.cnn.com/POLLSERVER/results/54018.html)



Still, it's an important step to help generate taxpayer support at a time when policymakers will need to make numerous difficult decisions (http://money.cnn.com/2010/11/17/news/economy/debt_commission_rivlin_domenici/index.htm?iid=EL&iid=EL) about curbing the debt, one fiscal expert said.
"It's a real money issue and a psychological first step," said Maya MacGuineas, fiscal policy director at the New America Foundation. (Obama's debt panel nears final report (http://money.cnn.com/2010/11/28/news/economy/debt_commission_meetings/index.htm?iid=EL))
Obama was scheduled to announce the proposal later Monday.
According to the administration, the two-year pay freeze would save $2 billion for the remainder of fiscal year 2011 and $28 billion over the next five years.
The freeze would not apply to military personnel, but would apply to all civilian federal employees, including those in various alternative pay plans and those working at the Department of Defense.
Federal workers shouldn't feel singled out: The White House says more tough choices are on the way.
"This freeze is not to punish federal workers or to disrespect the work that they do," the White House said in a statement. "It is the first of many actions we will take in the upcoming budget to put our nation on sound fiscal footing -- which will ask for some sacrifice from us all."
According to a recent CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll, 68% of Americans say reducing the deficit is more important than avoiding cuts in salary and benefits for federal workers.
In the same poll, Americans said that avoiding significant spending cuts to Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, college loans, aid to farmers and unemployed workers is more important than reducing the deficit.
Take the Social Security quiz (http://money.cnn.com/quizzes/2010/news/social_security_debate/?iid=EL)
Congressional approval will be required to before the freeze is implemented, and Obama's proposal is likely to pick up support on the other side of the aisle.
Republicans have argued in favor of a freeze in recent weeks, and the co-chairmen of Obama's bipartisan deficit commission made a similar recommendation earlier this month.
Monday's announcement is not the first time government employees have faced cuts during the Obama administration. During his first year in office, he froze the salaries of top White House officials and proposed to do so for other top political appointees. He also eliminated bonuses for all political appointees.
-- CNNMoney senior writer Jeanne Sahadi contributed to this report. http://i.cdn.turner.com/money/images/bug.gif (http://money.cnn.com/2010/11/29/news/economy/federal_pay_freeze/index.htm?hpt=T1#TOP)

[TeyshaBlue]

It's a small, inconsequential step relative to the budget. Hopefully, there is more low hanging fruit out there to be quickly harvested.
IMO, it's more important as a statement than anything else....and coming from a company with a 3 year (and counting) long wage freeze, I feel their pain. However wage freeze > layoff.

[Creepn]

What's the point of tackling the debt problem if we still have 2 money eating wars going on?

[CosmicCowboy]

I'd rather see a 5% across the board budget cut.

[Sportcamper]

A 20% cut in pay for all Senators & Congressmen would be fair…Let these millionaires experience what middle America is going through….

[DMX7]

I'd rather see a 5% across the board budget cut.

Does that inlcude military spending, social security or medicare? Because it doesn't to Republicans actually in congress.

[boutons_deux]

Fuck it all, roll back the tax rates, all of them, to 1980 before St Ronnie started the Wealthy War On America.

[CosmicCowboy]

Does that inlcude military spending, social security or medicare? Because it doesn't to Republicans actually in congress.

For me it does. Tell the cabinet heads to earn their money and find 5% of cuts they can make without interrupting the basic mission. It happens in the private sector all the time.

[LnGrrrR]

For me it does. Tell the cabinet heads to earn their money and find 5% of cuts they can make without interrupting the basic mission. It happens in the private sector all the time.

You know that every general is going to say how they're strapped for cash and need every cent to accomplish the mission. Heck, the Air Force is flying with machines that get patched up weekly. Big political battle there.

[CosmicCowboy]

You know that every general is going to say how they're strapped for cash and need every cent to accomplish the mission. Heck, the Air Force is flying with machines that get patched up weekly. Big political battle there.

The military could find 5% too without sacrificing combat readiness.

[LnGrrrR]

The military could find 5% too without sacrificing combat readiness.

Probably, but good luck getting generals to admit that. :lol

[EVAY]

Well, of course it isn't much, but it has to be done. Everything single little thing, regardless of how much or how little it helps, has to be done at this point.

[Wild Cobra]

Wow... Just wow...

Wage and price controls were proven not to work back in the 70's, and since these are based on CPI normally anyway, they aren't really going up now as it is.

Is he planning to devalue the dollar so much as to not want to pay 10x more or something in federal wages?

Have to wonder when you know the facts.

Anyone care to look at CPI changes over the last 2 years? I don't have the time.

[CosmicCowboy]

Wow... Just wow...

Wage and price controls were proven not to work back in the 70's, and since these are based on CPI normally anyway, they aren't really going up now as it is.

Is he planning to devalue the dollar so much as to not want to pay 10x more or something in federal wages?

Have to wonder when you know the facts.

Anyone care to look at CPI changes over the last 2 years? I don't have the time.

CPI is bullshit anyway. It excludes food, energy, and commodities. Just because the price of Indonesian underwear and Chinese conputers hasn't gone up it doesn't mean we haven't had inflation recently.

[Wild Cobra]

CPI is bullshit anyway. It excludes food, energy, and commodities. Just because the price of Indonesian underwear and Chinese conputers hasn't gone up it doesn't mean we haven't had inflation recently.
We know that, but union contracts still use it, as does medicare, and even private employers.

[boutons_deux]

The VRWC wrecking hammer is coming down.

Repugs are saying absolutely impossible let the tax cuts for the superwealthy expire, but

1. Soc Sec to be reduced.

2. medicare payments to be reduced (won't happen, the docs will abandon Medicare patients)

3. medicaid rolls to be reduced

3. long-term unemployment benefits to expire.

4. cut govt employee salaries.

5. etc, etc, etc.

I expect the Repugs will, sooner or later, propose a salary/allowance increase for Congress. God knows Congress Works Hard For Their Money.

[boutons_deux]

eg:

GOP Sen. Mark Kirk: Extending jobless benefits ‘misguided,’ but tax cuts for the rich necessary

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/gop-senator-jobless-benefits-tax-cuts/

[Wild Cobra]

The VRWC wrecking hammer is coming down.

Repugs are saying absolutely impossible let the tax cuts for the superwealthy expire, but

Lemming alert...


1. Soc Sec to be reduced.

Link?


2. medicare payments to be reduced (won't happen, the docs will abandon Medicare patients)

That's in the democrats agenda, in the health care legislation they passed. not anything republicans did.


3. medicaid rolls to be reduced

Again, see health care plan.


3. long-term unemployment benefits to expire.

So? It's a time controlled insurance. Not a right.


4. cut govt employee salaries.

Really? Whay is it the current administration talking about it then?


5. etc, etc, etc.

Do you mean repugs, repugs, repugs...


I expect the Repugs will, sooner or later, propose a salary/allowance increase for Congress. God knows Congress Works Hard For Their Money.
Just when I thing you are at the bottom, you sink lower in intelligence.

[ducks]

the gov waste one third of their money easily each year

[Duff McCartney]

I think it's better that we make massive cuts to our military spending. At least 50 percent should be cut.

[scott]

Wow... Just wow...

Wage and price controls were proven not to work back in the 70's, and since these are based on CPI normally anyway, they aren't really going up now as it is.

Is he planning to devalue the dollar so much as to not want to pay 10x more or something in federal wages?

Have to wonder when you know the facts.

Anyone care to look at CPI changes over the last 2 years? I don't have the time.

These aren't "wage and price controls". Minimum Wage is an example of a price control. This is an employer lower costs to try to, at a minimum, balance their budget (something all successful businesses know how to do but a concept that evades the government).

Here's all the CPI info. Do your own research. http://bls.gov/news.release/cpi.toc.htm

[scott]

CPI is bullshit anyway. It excludes food, energy, and commodities. Just because the price of Indonesian underwear and Chinese conputers hasn't gone up it doesn't mean we haven't had inflation recently.

Wrong. CPI includes all those things. You are thinking of Core CPI, which isn't used in contracts.

Core CPI is useful in looking at short-term trends because of the volitility in food and energy. But any statistician or economist knows you have to use CPI that includes food and energy, since food and energy are two of the most necessary expenditures people have.

[CosmicCowboy]

Wrong. CPI includes all those things. You are thinking of Core CPI, which isn't used in contracts.

Core CPI is useful in looking at short-term trends because of the volitility in food and energy. But any statistician or economist knows you have to use CPI that includes food and energy, since food and energy are two of the most necessary expenditures people have.

I agree, but apparently the US Government doesn't. Check it out. Thats why they didn't re-adjust Social Security this year...they excluded food/energy etc. in the calculation.

[LnGrrrR]

I think it's better that we make massive cuts to our military spending. At least 50 percent should be cut.

50%? Maybe VERY gradually, but you can't just cut 50% outright. It would pretty much mean suicide for soldiers in the field.

[scott]

I agree, but apparently the US Government doesn't. Check it out. Thats why they didn't re-adjust Social Security this year...they excluded food/energy etc. in the calculation.

That's also incorrect. They didn't re-adjust Social Security payments this year because the CPI-W didn't change. The CPI-W is the legislatively mandated index by which SS payments are adjusted.

http://www.ssa.gov/cola/2010/2010faqs.htm

CPI-W includes food and energy.

http://bls.gov/news.release/cpi.t04.htm

[CosmicCowboy]

I was reading up on the SS adjustments and the CPI-W after my last post. You are correct that they have numbers plugged in there but I'm having a real hard time accepting those numbers. For example, NO change in medical costs? Only 3% in gasoline? Gas is up a LOT more than that in the last year...

[CosmicCowboy]

The cost of tuition went DOWN? LOL

They add a what? $1 a pack tax on tobacco last year and the CPIW says the price of tobacco products went down? :lmao

[Drachen]

The cost of tuition went DOWN? LOL

They add a what? $1 a pack tax on tobacco last year and the CPIW says the price of tobacco products went down? :lmao

Just to respond to your post, and admittedly without looking at the numbers, but it would seem logical to me that they don't include the cost of taxes in the CPI. As far as tuition, I could see TUITION going down even if the total cost of school goes up (fees, etc.).

[MannyIsGod]

The cost of tuition went DOWN? LOL

They add a what? $1 a pack tax on tobacco last year and the CPIW says the price of tobacco products went down? :lmao

Um, what? I read that data to show a 4 percent increase from last year.

[Drachen]

Ok, took a quick look at the numbers and in response to the person who said that gas went up more than they claimed, just think, last dec. the average gas price was $2.60 and the current average is 2.85 that is an increase of only 5.8% in the last year. (consumer reports for the former figure, AAA for the latter. The CPI summary said 4.6% in the last month I believe it was)

I saw no support or anything to condemn my claim that tax isn't included in CPI calculations.

As far as tuition goes, it shows that it only went down by 2 tenths of a percent. Then in the CPI-W it shows a different effect (i.e. it went up). (this info was in the CPI news release).

[MannyIsGod]

I know shit about the CPI but the CPI Scott linked shows a 4 percent increase in tuition over the past year and I trust Scott to know about economics more than anyone else in this forum.

[Drachen]

I know shit about the CPI but the CPI Scott linked shows a 4 percent increase in tuition over the past year and I trust Scott to know about economics more than anyone else in this forum.


There are several different figures, I just searched "tuition" on the pdf and looked at each of them.

[Drachen]

There are several different figures, I just searched "tuition" on the pdf and looked at each of them.

Sorry, looked at the wrong figure, the -.2% seems to be only over a one month period. I meant to be looking one column over. Yes, except for a few short periods of time, tuition is up.

[CosmicCowboy]

I know shit about the CPI but the CPI Scott linked shows a 4 percent increase in tuition over the past year and I trust Scott to know about economics more than anyone else in this forum.

Manny, are you looking at the CPI-W (table 4?) If so, I think you are reading it wrong. It shows ALL education expenses going down, not up...you are reading the wrong column.

http://bls.gov/news.release/cpi.t04.htm

[MannyIsGod]

it shows a 1.0 percent increase over the past year for all education and 3.9 for tuition and fees. I'm not sure what you're looking at.

[MannyIsGod]

It might show monthly decreases in tuition by a tenth of a percent but that pretty much means dick, IMO.

[CosmicCowboy]

it shows a 1.0 percent increase over the past year for all education and 3.9 for tuition and fees. I'm not sure what you're looking at.

You are looking at 2009, not 2010. Check again.

[MannyIsGod]

I'm looking at the change from 2009 to 2010.

[CosmicCowboy]

All the "education" related numbers in the 2010 column are negative. Look at it again.

*correction*

books and supplies is +.1

All other items including tuition, school fees, and childcare are negative.

[MannyIsGod]

They're negative by tenths of a percent because prices fluctuate throughout the year (especially for books and supplies which are very much dependent on inventories) which is why I'm not interested in them. Its not even a dramatic fluctuation but tenths of a percent where if you look at the change over the past year you see increases. As I said I know shit about this but this all seems pretty much like common sense to me.

[CosmicCowboy]

They're negative by tenths of a percent because prices fluctuate throughout the year (especially for books and supplies which are very much dependent on inventories) which is why I'm not interested in them. Its not even a dramatic fluctuation but tenths of a percent where if you look at the change over the past year you see increases. As I said I know shit about this but this all seems pretty much like common sense to me.

The comparison was from October 2009 to September 2010. The CPI-W says the price of education went down.

Did your education expenses go down this year?

[MannyIsGod]

You're completely misreading the chart. The column with Oct 2009 is the change from Oct 2009 to Oct 2010. The Column headed with Sept 2010 is from Sept 2010 to Oct 2010.

[CosmicCowboy]

You're completely misreading the chart. The column with Oct 2009 is the change from Oct 2009 to Oct 2010. The Column headed with Sept 2010 is from Sept 2010 to Oct 2010.

Oops...you are correct. Virtually everything went up. So why didn't the people on Social Security get a COLA?