View Full Version : ESPN: Too much Kobe dooms Lakers
jestersmash
12-01-2010, 04:01 AM
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/22276/too-much-kobe-dooms-lakers
Too much Kobe dooms Lakers
The Los Angeles Lakers might have to learn that a little less Kobe Bryant may go a long way this season.
On Tuesday, Bryant scored 29 points but it took him 25 shots to get there in a 98-96 loss to the Memphis Grizzlies. During the Lakers current three-game losing streak, Bryant has attempted at least 20 shots in each game and has averaged 26.3 FGA per game.
This season, the Lakers are 2-3 when Bryant attempts at least 25 shots in a game, compared to 11-2 when he attempts fewer than 25 shots.
Look even deeper and you will see that all five of the Lakers losses have come when Bryant has at least 20 shots. When Bryant attempts fewer than 20 shots, the Lakers are 7-0.
Odd, from what I've read/heard from most Lakers fans I could've sworn all of this losing was due to Pau Gasol being "too soft."
KapitanTutan
12-01-2010, 04:04 AM
Kobe "6/25er" Bryant
:toast
rayray2k8
12-01-2010, 04:08 AM
Kobe wasn't the reason why the Lakers lost to the Grizz last night.. He SHOULD have taken the last shot.
Gutter92
12-01-2010, 06:01 AM
Kobe wasn't the reason why the Lakers lost to the Grizz last night.. He SHOULD have taken the last shot.
he woulda been blocked, he had to pass it..the man doesn't have ups like he used to
Rummpd
12-01-2010, 06:23 AM
Kobe is bricking his way along in the race with James to see who can get the lower fg%
jestersmash
12-01-2010, 02:33 PM
bump
Hahaha, that's hilarious.
Jose Canseco
12-01-2010, 03:15 PM
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/22276/too-much-kobe-dooms-lakers
Odd, from what I've read/heard from most Lakers fans I could've sworn all of this losing was due to Pau Gasol being "too soft."
It's both. Kobe is a ballhog. Nothing new here. But Pau has also played soft at times in some of the games.
In the five games Kobe has taken 25 or more shots, Pau is shooting 42.2% from the field himself and averaging 2 fewer free throw attempts than in the other games. So when he's not shooting efficiently from the field, he gets passive instead of getting more aggressive and trying to get to the free throw line. We all know Kobe is the other way. Even if Kobe isn't hitting his shot, he'll keep shooting and will stay aggressive. Pau has been pretty consistent rebounding the ball, but when he misses a few shots, he shrivels up on offense.
In the 5 Laker losses, Pau is shooting a much better 48.6% from the field, but it's still down considerably from the 55.7% from the field he shoots in the Laker wins.
There is no doubt Kobe still hasn't figured out how not to go fullblown blackhole in close games where he's not shooting efficiently. But that doesn't excuse Pau entirely from playing soft at times as well.
DAF86
12-01-2010, 04:14 PM
It's both. Kobe is a ballhog. Nothing new here. But Pau has also played soft at times in some of the games.
In the five games Kobe has taken 25 or more shots, Pau is shooting 42.2% from the field himself and averaging 2 fewer free throw attempts than in the other games. So when he's not shooting efficiently from the field, he gets passive instead of getting more aggressive and trying to get to the free throw line. We all know Kobe is the other way. Even if Kobe isn't hitting his shot, he'll keep shooting and will stay aggressive. Pau has been pretty consistent rebounding the ball, but when he misses a few shots, he shrivels up on offense.
In the 5 Laker losses, Pau is shooting a much better 48.6% from the field, but it's still down considerably from the 55.7% from the field he shoots in the Laker wins.
There is no doubt Kobe still hasn't figured out how not to go fullblown blackhole in close games where he's not shooting efficiently. But that doesn't excuse Pau entirely from playing soft at times as well.
Is that a bad thing? IMO when a guy isn't feeling it is better for him to look for others a little bit more and don't force the issue like Kobe does.
TheMACHINE
12-01-2010, 04:20 PM
thats 2 losses in a row where Ron Artest touched the ball with 2 seconds left and pumped faked a 3 and fucked up.
bus driver
12-01-2010, 04:24 PM
kobe will be alright, he just needs the power of the white women
Giuseppe
12-01-2010, 04:31 PM
Exactly. You can only win it every June. He's two in-a-row.
Aren't these the three games immediately following Gasol's triple double?
Just sayin'.
Jose Canseco
12-01-2010, 05:27 PM
Is that a bad thing? IMO when a guy isn't feeling it is better for him to look for others a little bit more and don't force the issue like Kobe does.
Depends how you look at it. From my perspective, an offensive star big man in the league should not be passive on the court even if he's playing poorly on offense. Draw fouls, get to the free throw line, and maybe that will get your game going. If you're supposed to be one of the best offensive big men in the league, you shouldn't play passively on offense.
Continuing to play aggressively still helps get your teammates good looks because it forces the defense to collapse even if you're not making your shots. Being smarter with your shot selection isn't the same thing as being passive. Pau gets passive. And it's not like he's piling assists when he shoots poorly from the field. In those 5 losses, Pau is only averaging 3 assists and not once got more than 4 assists in any of the games. His season average is 4.1 APG. So it's not like when he's not scoring efficiently, he's racking up assists. That shows he's playing passive as opposed to smarter but just looking for teammates more.
If in these games where Pau has shot poorly, he was getting to the line a lot and racking up a lot of assists, then you'd have a point. But he's not. So no, I don't think playing passively on offense is a good thing for Pau. Depending how you look at it, Pau is the most important or second most important player for the Lakers offense. He needs to stay aggressive on offense even if he's not scoring efficiently.
Giuseppe
12-01-2010, 05:37 PM
Pau started reading his press clippings in small group discussion with Brown & Blake. Instead of rising to their own accomplishments, the trio got the shit scared out of 'em, and climbed into a hole.
duncan228
12-01-2010, 06:03 PM
What’s wrong with the Lakers? The usual (http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/12/01/what%e2%80%99s-wrong-with-the-lakers-the-usual/).
Kurt Helin
The Lakers have lost three games in a row and the San Andreas Fault is the only thing that shakes up Los Angeles worse.
Despite back-to-back titles and a head coach who treats the regular season as a means to an end, Lakers fans can get pretty worked up — the team has only lost three straight once since Pau Gasol came to town. And no Phil Jackson championship team has ever lost four in a row, so clearly Wednesday night’s game in Houston is like Game 7 of the finals.
There’s also hand wringing and pontificating about what is wrong with the Lakers? Why the losing streak?
Meet the new loss, same as the old loss. What’s hurting the Lakers now are the same two things that cause all their losing streaks.
First, they stop protecting the paint and the rim on defense. Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom’s natural instinct is not to block shots in the paint, if you combine that with a big man on the other team who can hit the midrange jumper — Marc Gasol did that, Roy Hibbert did that — then you pull the Lakers bigs out and make it harder for them to do what they don’t do that well anyway. (By the way, the Rockets can do this, too.)
Andrew Bynum helps fix a lot of this. But even Gasol and Odom come playoff time become much better about this.
Secondly, the Lakers get in the cycle of getting the ball inside less to Gasol and standing around and watching Kobe in isolation more. It’s a pattern you can see coming — the Lakers stop feeding Gasol and running the offense through him a few times in a row, and things stagnate. The Laker don’t get points.
So Kobe decides to break the cycle, isolates and tries to take on more of the offense. He demands the ball, because he has that personality. The team defers, then stands around and watches him. Lather, rinse and repeat a few times down the court. And the offense gets more stagnant and the other team can overload their defense. Which Kobe is more than willing to take on singlehandedly, because he is Kobe.
Phil Jackson doesn’t yell at Gasol and Odom to get their behinds back in the paint on defense, he doesn’t call a time out and scream to start throwing the ball back inside to Gasol. He lets the losses remind his players what works. He lets their competitive natures teach the lesson, thinking a lesson you teach yourself is one you are better to remember. (He also knows he an afford the losses to teach the lessons in a way many teams cannot.)
The Lakers are in one of those cycles now. Soon — maybe against the Rockets, maybe not — the Lakers will break out of it, start doing those things right again. Bynum will eventually return and change the dynamic on defense and on the glass.
It is what it always is with the Lakers. Nothing to panic about, just some mid-season teaching.
ChrisRichards
12-01-2010, 06:09 PM
Kobe is one of the dumbest and most overrated player in the league. Seriously, how can you shoot that much when you have a fucking great team around you? The guy is just selfish, no other words can descibe him.
I like how this guy talks about "installing his DNA" to his teammates and its all about winning and "defense" when he's clearly not even practicing what he preaches.
I really, really, really hate this guy, I mean seriously. What a fucktard.
Giuseppe
12-01-2010, 06:12 PM
Kobe is one of the dumbest and most overrated player in the league. Seriously, how can you shoot that much when you have a fucking great team around you? The guy is just selfish, no other words can descibe him.
I like how this guy talks about "installing his DNA" to his teammates and its all about winning and "defense" when he's clearly not even practicing what he preaches.
I really, really, really hate this guy, I mean seriously. What a fucktard.
:rolleyes
ChrisRichards
12-01-2010, 06:14 PM
If its any consolation, Pau Gasol's game gives me a boner.
Giuseppe
12-01-2010, 06:17 PM
If its any consolation, Pau Gasol's game gives me a boner.
I used to get a boner when that Jamal Sampson girl was on the bench for the Lakers. He'd be dressed in the all black ensemble with the dangling earrings and his leg folded over the other like girls. I got that same outfit for Katie-girl one Xmas.
ChrisRichards
12-01-2010, 06:25 PM
I used to get a boner when that Jamal Sampson girl was on the bench for the Lakers. He'd be dressed in the all black ensemble with the dangling earrings and his leg folded over the other like girls. I got that same outfit for Katie-girl one Xmas.
OMG
:lol
Giuseppe
12-01-2010, 06:30 PM
OMG
:lol
He was striking though. :lol
Kobe take less shots? :lol
He's due for a big game but he won't shoot any less. He wants to remind everyone he's the top dog regardless of games loss.
TheMACHINE
12-01-2010, 07:41 PM
Kobe take less shots? :lol
He's due for a big game but he won't shoot any less. He wants to remind everyone he's the top dog regardless of games loss.
you are right, those 5 rings on his fingers remind most people. He needs to calm down with his shots and let the team help him win his 3rd Finals MVP.
you are right, those 5 rings on his fingers remind most people. He needs to calm down with his shots and let the team help him win his 3rd Finals MVP.
He didn't have a problem letting Shaq and Gasol help with those.
Giuseppe
12-01-2010, 08:09 PM
Though Shaq couldn't win a title until Kobe took him in and Gasol couldn't win a playoff game till Kobe took him in.
TheMACHINE
12-01-2010, 08:10 PM
He didn't have a problem letting Shaq and Gasol help with those.
im sure he doesnt have a problem now.
ALVAREZ6
12-01-2010, 08:13 PM
Kobe is one of the dumbest and most overrated player in the league. Seriously, how can you shoot that much when you have a fucking great team around you? The guy is just selfish, no other words can descibe him.
I like how this guy talks about "installing his DNA" to his teammates and its all about winning and "defense" when he's clearly not even practicing what he preaches.
I really, really, really hate this guy, I mean seriously. What a fucktard.
I don't hate Kobe, the contrary I have great respect, but I agree with some of this.
Kobe definitely shoots way too much, it's been going on for years. I think you're right, there's no excuse to hog the ball so much on such a good team. It does make him seem selfish, whether or not it's true...but I can definitely see why Pau previously had minor problems with Kobe being Kobe. By taking so much of the offensive load and shooting so many shots per game, it takes away from the effectiveness of the other players on the roster and makes the Lakers more reliable on Kobe's performance. Of course they rely a good deal on Kobe by nature, as he's great individually obviously, but I think it'd be better for his team to try to involve others much more consistently.
If Kobe shot less and focused his game on only taking "good shots"...his FG% would increase and his PPG would decrease, but at this point in his career he really shouldn't give a damn about his PPG averages. Yet it seems like he does. Kobe: you're clearly a fuckin baller with your talent, the whole world knows it.
I'm done, mid-post. Don't know why I'm posting about what could make the Lakers better.
TheNextGen
12-01-2010, 08:45 PM
I don't hate Kobe, the contrary I have great respect, but I agree with some of this.
Kobe definitely shoots way too much, it's been going on for years. I think you're right, there's no excuse to hog the ball so much on such a good team. It does make him seem selfish, whether or not it's true...but I can definitely see why Pau previously had minor problems with Kobe being Kobe. By taking so much of the offensive load and shooting so many shots per game, it takes away from the effectiveness of the other players on the roster and makes the Lakers more reliable on Kobe's performance. Of course they rely a good deal on Kobe by nature, as he's great individually obviously, but I think it'd be better for his team to try to involve others much more consistently.
If Kobe shot less and focused his game on only taking "good shots"...his FG% would increase and his PPG would decrease, but at this point in his career he really shouldn't give a damn about his PPG averages. Yet it seems like he does. Kobe: you're clearly a fuckin baller with your talent, the whole world knows it.
I'm done, mid-post. Don't know why I'm posting about what could make the Lakers better.
Kobe was shooting alot in those losses cuz the other Lakers were crap...check the bench stats in the past 3 games.
Y'all niggas be looking at the final total thinking he shot all those ball hogging and not looking for his teammates. How many of those shots were given to him with 3 seconds remaining in the shot clock. How many of those shots were taken when they were down by 9 or 10 and he was able to get his team back to 2-3 points with a minute remaining.
Kobe be just being Kobe right?...who knows, maybe he'll win a few rings if he changes his ways right? :rolleyes
Honestly, Kobe has already proved he can win...i aint gonna analyze every game in the regular season.
TheMACHINE
12-01-2010, 08:52 PM
errr..when Lakers wins its cuz of Gasol...when Lakers lose its cuz of Kobe. Get with the program NextGen.
jestersmash
12-01-2010, 08:56 PM
errr..when Lakers wins its cuz of Gasol...when Lakers lose its cuz of Kobe. Get with the program NextGen.
I realize the attempt at sarcasm, but it doesn't work because what you're implying simply isn't true.
Most Lakers fans legitimately place the blame primarily on Gasol for losses and seem to conveniently ignore Kobe's excessive volume shooting on nights where his shot is off.
Man In Black
12-01-2010, 09:55 PM
http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/26173420
namlook
12-01-2010, 10:19 PM
Kobe should just keep doing what he has been doing the past two years and get that three peat and shut everyone up yet again. The man is a winner, period. Gasol was 0 for 12 in the playoffs before he teamed up with Kobe. As great as Shaq has been he has one ring in his career without Kobe. etc etc.
LakasRool4eva
12-01-2010, 10:23 PM
loling@ da hataz................................that article was so bias i stopped reading it..............
Nathan89
12-01-2010, 10:28 PM
Kobe should just keep doing what he has been doing the past two years and get that three peat and shut everyone up yet again. The man is a winner, period. Gasol was 0 for 12 in the playoffs before he teamed up with Kobe. As great as Shaq has been he has one ring in his career without Kobe. etc etc.
Reasons-
Jordan/The Dream- and he was young
He got old.
So this sentence means nothing you dumb shit.
Ghazi
12-01-2010, 10:29 PM
Daddy hasn't rang sans Kobe, legitimately that is
let us proceed...
LnGrrrR
12-01-2010, 10:55 PM
How many shots is Kobe up to tonight?
HarlemHeat37
12-01-2010, 11:15 PM
:lolLakers were up 7 when he entered the game with 6 minutes left, end up losing by 10..he shot 2-7 in that stretch and got torched by Shane Battier..ended up -20..
:(MVP:(..
Ghazi
12-01-2010, 11:17 PM
:lol Heat
namlook
12-01-2010, 11:21 PM
Reasons-
Jordan/The Dream- and he was young
He got old.
So this sentence means nothing you dumb shit.
Shaq has played 10 seasons without Kobe and has one ring to show for it. Now who is the dumbshit?
jestersmash
12-01-2010, 11:34 PM
Kobe should just keep doing what he has been doing the past two years and get that three peat and shut everyone up yet again. The man is a winner, period. Gasol was 0 for 12 in the playoffs before he teamed up with Kobe. As great as Shaq has been he has one ring in his career without Kobe. etc etc.
It's like a god damned cult.
jestersmash
12-10-2010, 10:59 PM
Bump. This thread seems relevant after tonight's game.
23 shots for Kobe. Another "L" for the Lakers.
hater
12-10-2010, 10:59 PM
LMAO Kobe blows dick
jestersmash
01-30-2011, 06:32 PM
Relevant?
jestersmash
02-16-2011, 10:42 PM
8-24?
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