America is Held Hostage By Global Private Bankers

[Parker2112]

Somebody's blog:






Washington is owned by the private global banking cartel that owns Wall Street. International law does not apply to this criminal cartel. They stole trillions of dollars from the American people with help from corrupt politicians over a stretch of many decades, culminating in the government bailout in 2008, and they have not been held accountable.

These bandits and looters could care less if America crashes and burns. In fact, they want America to die because they want to institute a private world government upon its ruins. And they're doing a fantastic job at it because they've had decades of practice in nations in Latin America, Africa, and Asia where they bought off greedy politicians, and robbed their people through the IMF/World Bank/WTO.

The entire business model of the private global banking tricksters is based on stealing the wealth of nations, and destroying national independence in order to allow lawless multinational corporations to completely take over.

Once nations are put into needless debt by these private global bankers, they put the squeeze on them by forcing them to pay back usurious loans that make them go bankrupt. After the inevitable mayhem that follows national collapse, they impose a military dictatorship so that the people can't resist. Damon Vrabel calls it the "death of nations." (http://csper.wordpress.com/2010/07/07/sovereign-debt-the-death-of-nations-vs-the-wealth-of-nations/) He writes:

The fact is that most countries are not sovereign (the few that are are being attacked by CIA/MI6/Mossad or the military). Instead they are administrative districts or customers of the global banking establishment whose power has grown steadily over time based on the math of the bond market, currently ruled by the US dollar, and the expansionary nature of fractional lending. Their cult of economists from places like Harvard, Chicago, and the London School have steadily eroded national sovereignty by forcing debt-based, floating currencies on countries.
Civilized nations stand up for themselves, they don't bow down to private bankers. America can prove to the world that it is civilized, honest, and free by showing the global banking overlords the door.

The way to fight back against the global robbers at the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank/IMF/World Bank and the big banks is entirely peaceful. It is a matter of exposing their deviance and deception to the public, and then hitting the streets. An enemy can't be defeated unless it remains in the shadows, striking at will. Directing public light at the private global banking cartel's evil influence over nations that are thought to be free and independent by the people is the only way to bring an end to their crimes, and treachery against Mankind.

A new civilization based on the divine values of freedom, justice, truth, and mutual respect among nations, and private institutions, can't be born unless we all come together as global citizens and fight back against the unlawful rule of the private global banking cartel. Our countries are suffering because of their greed and ruthless control.

The austerity measures that are being called for by the banks and the elite is bringing chaos onto the streets of Europe on a scale never before seen, and it won't be long before America enters the stage. We are nearing the moment when the globalist conspirators behind the plans for a new world order will openly declare the end of America. When they do, we shall declare the end of them, and fight for the rebirth of America, and all of Mankind.

Only an order based on the rule of law and freedom should be accepted. The conspiratorial elite intend to achieve a new world order through this period of engineered chaos not by law, but by brutal force because it is the only way to impose a criminal, bank-owned government on a global scale. Despite their rhetoric, these devilish traitors are not visionary thinkers because corrupt designs for a world state isn't new in history. Their arrogance is a cover. They will fail hard. And America will be set free from bondage, along with other nations.

This is global government, a private corporate global government, taking over every major society with the same formula. It is fraudulent, and it must be resisted, or we have no future.

There is a peaceful global revolution against the private global banking cartel, and it can't be stopped. Join it and help everyone live free, or die a slave under the empire of debt.

[TDMVPDPOY]

What u think the cartel in the EU is doing to the countries in the EU that took out bailouts or go broke...most of their countries main assets not privatised yet will end up in the cartels hands....

[Parker2112]

What u think the cartel in the EU is doing to the countries in the EU that took out bailouts or go broke...most of their countries main assets not privatised yet will end up in the cartels hands....

Scorch the ground and then pick up the ashes for cheap.

[Parker2112]

EU countries are seeing this first-hand...too many Americans are afraid to hear it just yet, even though the signposts are well in place.

[boutons_deux]

bankers/capitalists have been inflating and benefitting from bubble for centuries. They then foreclose on real assets from distressed borrowers and flip the assets.

Europe and America are identical. Americans just refuse to see how fucked they are.

[Parker2112]

bankers/capitalists have been inflating and benefitting from bubble for centuries. They then foreclose on real assets from distressed borrowers and flip the assets.

Europe and America are identical. Americans just refuse to see how fucked they are.


Dems and Progressives are bought just like the Right, Boutons. Thats the damn truth.

Obama was the Bankster candidate. No one can dispute that.

[MannyIsGod]

America is held hostage by its own stupid apathetic populace.

[Parker2112]

America is held hostage by its own stupid apathetic populace.


that and a mountain of debt. everyone is in debt. people. states and local govt. corps. businesses. federal govt. congressmen. we signed over our country slowly but surely, for new cars, new dubs, new social programs, election money, johnny's education, new inventory.

now the wealth has accumulated in the hands of a few, and they own us at every step. media. state politics. federal politics. Congress.

not sure if apathy tells much of the story at this point.

[Parker2112]

America is held hostage by its own stupid tendency to borrow and borrow and borrow and borrow.....


fify

[CosmicCowboy]

America is held hostage by its own stupid apathetic populace.

When half the country doesn't pay any tax or better yet, gets "reverse" tax in the form of payments from the government they have NO incentive to demand a fiscally responsible government.

I personally think that every single person should have to pay SOME tax (if only 2-3% of income) just to get some skin in the game and take their responsibility of voting seriously.

[MannyIsGod]

Its ironic that you think more freedoms will somehow change the fortunes of this country when the people don't even use the freedom they have no effectively. You make excuses for our population because it fits the paradigm you want it to.

[MannyIsGod]

When half the country doesn't pay any tax or better yet, gets "reverse" tax in the form of payments from the government they have NO incentive to demand a fiscally responsible government.

I personally think that every single person should have to pay SOME tax (if only 2-3% of income) just to get some skin in the game and take their responsibility of voting seriously.

When 2% of the country takes up half the wealth then your point is fucking moot. Having a stake isn't just about paying, its about what rewards you're able to reap

In any event, saying that half the country doesn't pay tax is the bullshit I expect out of a chain letter. Everyone pays taxes all the time. Aren't you fond of telling us how expenses are passed down the line? You think that taxes are immune? You don't think that sales tax counts as a tax either?

[lefty]

Damn reptilians

[CosmicCowboy]

When 2% of the country takes up half the wealth then your point is fucking moot. Having a stake isn't just about paying, its about what rewards you're able to reap

In any event, saying that half the country doesn't pay tax is the bullshit I expect out of a chain letter. Everyone pays taxes all the time. Aren't you fond of telling us how expenses are passed down the line? You think that taxes are immune? You don't think that sales tax counts as a tax either?

*sigh*

Federal Income Tax, Manny.

[Parker2112]

Its ironic that you think more freedoms will somehow change the fortunes of this country when the people don't even use the freedom they have no effectively. You make excuses for our population because it fits the paradigm you want it to.

the bullshit in European nations/streets will hit us sooner than later. And before it does, we will be bailing them out.

keep disbelieving if you like.

[CosmicCowboy]

Even stupid people are rational and will typically vote their self interest.

Take a person who pays NO Federal taxes and has ZERO skin in the game...

An Election comes up...

Congressman #1 says "I promise to give you A,B,C,D,E, and F"

Congressman #2 says "A,B,C,D,E, & F are all nice things to have if you can afford them, but we can't afford them"

Who do you thing they will vote for?

[Parker2112]

Its ironic that you think more freedoms will somehow change the fortunes of this country when the people don't even use the freedom they have no effectively. You make excuses for our population because it fits the paradigm you want it to.

the last few generations have been trained to tune out of reality all together. never have the distractions been so numerous as now. recreational technology is making slaves of young people more and more each day. its no wonder no one gives a fuck.

Also: Cosmic Cowboy is owning your ass on that tax argument, you just dont want to admit it.

[boutons_deux]

the bullshit in European nations/streets will hit us sooner than later.

The European bullshit, essentially IRL, PT, ES (Greece is a EC country in name only), was brought on by the Euros following the American example, including Euro banks buying toxic shit and AIG casino insurance, real estate/derivatives/trading casino, not vice versa.

America is World Champion Financial/Capitalist/Democratic Fraud

[Parker2112]

Its ironic that you think more freedoms will somehow change the fortunes of this country when the people don't even use the freedom they have no effectively. You make excuses for our population because it fits the paradigm you want it to.

so you are saying that recovery is a vote away? even when we see that a vote for Hope is a vote for the same policies Bush gave us? Follow the $. The election $$$ beats your vote any day of the week.

And the system is rigged to prevent third parties from any real chance of getting elected. The two parties' candidates are bought from the word go, then you choose between the fairy tales they spin during the campaign. then you vote based on which one you would like to believe. then they get elected and carry on the business of the campaign donors using official letterhead.

Sounds like apathy aint the problem at all.

[Parker2112]

The European bullshit, essentially IRL, PT, ES (Greece is a EC country in name only), was brought on by the Euros following the American example, including Euro banks buying toxic shit and AIG casino insurance, real estate/derivatives/trading casino, not vice versa.

America is World Champion Financial/Capitalist/Democratic Fraud

its the same people running the same scheme worldwide. you actually think national borders and mean something when it comes to banking interests?

Actually, I know you know better.

Europe is home base of the tyrants at work.

[Galileo]

THE FRAUDULENT RESERVE: Ron Paul Says Fed Policy 'Is Out of Control' - Bloomberg Interview (Dec. 1) [VIDEO]

This is pretty brilliant. Try to set aside a few minutes.

WATCH VIDEO:

http://dailybail.com/home/the-fraudulent-reserve-ron-paul-says-fed-policy-is-out-of-co.html

Ron Paul on Debt and War (VIDEO)

WATCH VIDEO:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/71950.html

FED Was Liquefying The World (VIDEO)

The Federal Reserve on Wednesday revealed the details of some $3.3 trillion in emergency loans it made to financial institutions during the credit crisis as mandated by a revamp of US regulations. CNBC's Steve Liesman has the details.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xu8uqedkto&feature=player_embedded#!

Drs. Ron and Rand Paul on Fox 12-02-10 (VIDEO)

WATCH VIDEO HERE:

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/151019

[Parker2112]

Nice call Galileo, but I'm almost sure CNBC is way too tin-hat/fringe for most to take seriously here.

[MannyIsGod]

the bullshit in European nations/streets will hit us sooner than later. And before it does, we will be bailing them out.

keep disbelieving if you like.


the last few generations have been trained to tune out of reality all together. never have the distractions been so numerous as now. recreational technology is making slaves of young people more and more each day. its no wonder no one gives a fuck.

Also: Cosmic Cowboy is owning your ass on that tax argument, you just dont want to admit it.



so you are saying that recovery is a vote away? even when we see that a vote for Hope is a vote for the same policies Bush gave us? Follow the $. The election $$$ beats your vote any day of the week.

And the system is rigged to prevent third parties from any real chance of getting elected. The two parties' candidates are bought from the word go, then you choose between the fairy tales they spin during the campaign. then you vote based on which one you would like to believe. then they get elected and carry on the business of the campaign donors using official letterhead.

Sounds like apathy aint the problem at all.

It sounds like you're one of the idiots I was talking about earlier. You rant and rant and rant about people being "trained" and the system being rigged and do you even understand what you advocate when you talk about liberty?

You need to understand one thing right now:

People have all the freedom they need to make the change happen they just don't care.

Yes, the system is broken as hell but its not due to anything else other than the people who vote and who they hold (or don't don't) accountable. There's no one to a gun to this nations head other than the nations own citizens. Yet, you somehow believe that the source of the problem is outside the nations borders in the people who take advantage of this and other nations.

When people really get fed up and decide to hold their leaders accountable then something will change. When they get fed up and decide to actually learn about the system and how to enact change they will.

If the people of this country were interested in addressing the actual concerns of this nation then they would do so and there would be nothing any banker in Europe or anywhere else could do about it. But the fact of the matter is that they're too interested in dancing with the stars and other mundane shit to actually take control.

Its not that this country needs more liberty, its that this country doesn't take advantage of the liberty it already has.

[MannyIsGod]

Even stupid people are rational and will typically vote their self interest.

Take a person who pays NO Federal taxes and has ZERO skin in the game...

An Election comes up...

Congressman #1 says "I promise to give you A,B,C,D,E, and F"

Congressman #2 says "A,B,C,D,E, & F are all nice things to have if you can afford them, but we can't afford them"

Who do you thing they will vote for?

Too bad almost no one pays zero federal taxes. When business owners pay larger amounts in income tax do they pass the expense on or not? Do people not pay other taxes as well?

EVERYONE has skin in the game, CC. Everyone. Your argument that because some segments of society don't pay federal income tax they have no skin in the game ignores other taxes and ignores economics as well. If your stance is that people don't have skin in the game then its a complete bullshit stance to start off with and doesn't even merit the responses I've given it.

If your stance is that that people who pay lower amounts in taxes have less of a stake in the game then you completely ignore the following:

1) They have much less influence in the game as well. The more money a person makes and has the more they're able to influence the political process in many ways. I'd even wager that influence grows at an exponential rate as your income increases.

2) The relative value of money in relation to income. A person who makes 25,000 a year is going to value the 2,500 that makes up 10% of their income more than a person who makes 100,000 a year is going to value the $10,000 that makes up their 10% for obvious reasons. Yes, there will be exceptions to this and I'm not aware if there is an actual economic principle that says this but it strikes me as common sense.

You also ignore that a small percentage of this country makes a large portion of the money. Even with a flat tax that percentage would pay the majority of income tax.

Your argument is nothing more than a infotainment talking point and its not new.

[DMX7]

When half the country doesn't pay any tax or better yet, gets "reverse" tax in the form of payments from the government they have NO incentive to demand a fiscally responsible government.

I personally think that every single person should have to pay SOME tax (if only 2-3% of income) just to get some skin in the game and take their responsibility of voting seriously.

You mean federal government, I assume. Unless, of course, you've forgotten about property tax, sales tax, gas tax, etc...

[Parker2112]

It sounds like you're one of the idiots I was talking about earlier. You rant and rant and rant about people being "trained" and the system being rigged and do you even understand what you advocate when you talk about liberty?

You need to understand one thing right now:

People have all the freedom they need to make the change happen they just don't care.

Yes, the system is broken as hell but its not due to anything else other than the people who vote and who they hold (or don't don't) accountable. There's no one to a gun to this nations head other than the nations own citizens. Yet, you somehow believe that the source of the problem is outside the nations borders in the people who take advantage of this and other nations.

When people really get fed up and decide to hold their leaders accountable then something will change. When they get fed up and decide to actually learn about the system and how to enact change they will.

If the people of this country were interested in addressing the actual concerns of this nation then they would do so and there would be nothing any banker in Europe or anywhere else could do about it. But the fact of the matter is that they're too interested in dancing with the stars and other mundane shit to actually take control.

Its not that this country needs more liberty, its that this country doesn't take advantage of the liberty it already has.

Not even close.

If people in this country wanted to get their country back, they would have to hope they could raise a higher bid than those already in line. And how can they ever do that? They cant keep a job, a home, their health.

Please, Manny. Please.

And whats with all these big letters?

[MannyIsGod]

Not even close.

If people in this country wanted to get their country back, they would have to hope they could raise a higher bid than those already in line. And how can they ever do that? They cant keep a job, a home, their health.

Please, Manny. Please.

And whats with all these big letters?

What the hell do they need to raise money for? The money is used to buy the simple peoples votes with shitty sound bite commercials they fall for. In any case, the average person donating 20 dollars would raise more than enough money to win any modern campaign.

What you're telling me is that average person can't spend 20 dollars on their country?

You don't want to put any blame on the people because it completely undermines your libertarian dream. How can people who can't function in a democracy ever function in a libertarian system?

[CosmicCowboy]

You mean federal government, I assume. Unless, of course, you've forgotten about property tax, sales tax, gas tax, etc...

I'm not sure why you guys want to keep arguing this point. Yes, I am talking about FEDERAL taxes.

Half the people in the country don't pay them, thus they view excessive federal spending as something that simply doesn't effect them, or even benefits them.

Having to write a big check to the IRS on April 15 tends to change peoples perception on Federal spending.

[MannyIsGod]

Because you're wrong even with FEDERAL Taxes. You completely ignore the points I made in the post.

Yeah, Having to write a big check to the IRS changes peoples perceptions. So does having to live on 25,000 a year. Don't be so myopic.

[CosmicCowboy]

Hey Manny, I posted a thread for you in the club.

[CosmicCowboy]

Because you're wrong even with FEDERAL Taxes. You completely ignore the points I made in the post.

Yeah, Having to write a big check to the IRS changes peoples perceptions. So does having to live on 25,000 a year. Don't be so myopic.

Living on $25,000 a year is a choice.

Even the lowliest fast food fry cook can get to be manager eventually if he applies himself.

[boutons_deux]

"when the people don't even use the freedom they have no effectively"

Come on, MIG, you're not that naive.

Citizens have been totally disenfranchised. No matter which radical DC wrecker they think they are electing, every one of them is corrupted when they arrive in DC by the corporate/VRWC money machine.

eg, tea baggers and Repugs raised earmarks as a campaign whining point, but tea bagger supported candidates have filed $1B request for earmarks.

A tea bagger leader wants to disenfranchise further, you know the "inalienable rights", by restricting voting to property owners, just like in original Constitution. :lol

Next up: no wimmen, no niggas, no Asians, no wetbacks can vote, only wealthy Euro-American land owners. iow, the oligarchy perpetuating the oligarchy.

[boutons_deux]

Another example of Repugs (and Dems) ignoring their supporters, and faking "radical mandates" when none has been granted

CBS Poll Finds Only 46 Percent Of Republicans Support GOP’s Stand On Extending Bush Tax Cuts For Rich

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/12/03/gop-base-tax-cuts/

[Parker2112]

What the hell do they need to raise money for? The money is used to buy the simple peoples votes with shitty sound bite commercials they fall for. In any case, the average person donating 20 dollars would raise more than enough money to win any modern campaign.

What you're telling me is that average person can't spend 20 dollars on their country?

You don't want to put any blame on the people because it completely undermines your libertarian dream. How can people who can't function in a democracy ever function in a libertarian system?

And you dont give sufficient weight to the ever-growing disparity in wealth and privilege when discussing political clout and access to politicians and the political process.

you would rather view the electorate as a stupid lot of lazy bastards.

You also neglect to acknowledge the time required for the "common" men and women to do the important stuff: holding down a job/s, caring for kids, household responsibilities....for the average family they just dont have the time to focus on politics the way a budding young meteoroligist can between classes :lol

[Parker2112]

Another example of Repugs (and Dems) ignoring their supporters, and faking "radical mandates" when none has been granted....

Thats what I was waiting for :toast

[MannyIsGod]

And you dont give sufficient weight to the ever-growing disparity in wealth and privilege when discussing political clout and access to politicians and the political process.

you would rather view the electorate as a stupid lot of lazy bastards.

You also neglect to acknowledge the time required for the "common" men and women to do the important stuff: holding down a job/s, caring for kids, household responsibilities....for the average family they just dont have the time to focus on politics the way a budding young meteoroligist can between classes :lol

You are so bad at reading. I mean you're flat out terrible, Parker. In thread after thread after thread you bitch about something that has been addressed. You should read my posts in this thread.

Yeah, I have tons of time in between working 30 hours a week, a full time college workload, and studying. I don't know what to do with all my extra time.

In any event, if those people have such little time to educate themselves on the process how do you expect a libertarian society to work? That is the point you ultimately miss.

[MannyIsGod]

Its no secret that the GOP and Dems ignore their supporters. Its also no secret that at the ballot box those representatives aren't held accountable.

[MannyIsGod]

Living on $25,000 a year is a choice.

Even the lowliest fast food fry cook can get to be manager eventually if he applies himself.

Eventually. So in the meantime he's choosing to make 25,000. :lol

[Parker2112]

You are so bad at reading. I mean you're flat out terrible, Parker. In thread after thread after thread you bitch about something that has been addressed. You should read my posts in this thread.

Yeah, I have tons of time in between working 30 hours a week, a full time college workload, and studying. I don't know what to do with all my extra time.

In any event, if those people have such little time to educate themselves on the process how do you expect a libertarian society to work? That is the point you ultimately miss.


Lol pot calling the kettle black...

If you go back and read my posts on libertarian philosophy, you realize all the bullshit about "libertarian society" being too demanding of the average joe has already been dealt with...yet you continue to repeat that crap daily. Its like a self propogating mythical conclusory argument propogated amongst you and the rest of the progressives on this board to deal with something none of you care to understand.

[MannyIsGod]

I honestly could give two shits about your posts on libertarian philosophy because you don't seem to have a firm grasp on what libertarian philosophy is. You love to champion it and you obviously have a crush on Ron Paul but its obvious you don't actually subscribe to libertarian ideals when you bring up government intervention. There's a reason every intelligent person on this board clashes with you on this subject and its not because we're all misunderstanding you.

You know, when EVERYONE is clashing with you then you might want to stop blaming it on everyone else. Just a thought.

[MannyIsGod]

Libertarian Party Platform. You might want to take some time to actually read it.

http://www.lp.org/platform


. The only proper role of
government in the economic realm is to protect property rights, adjudicate disputes, and provide a
legal framework in which voluntary trade is protected. All efforts by government to redistribute
wealth, or to control or manage trade, are improper in a free society.


. The only proper role of
government in the economic realm is to protect property rights, adjudicate disputes, and provide a
legal framework in which voluntary trade is protected. All efforts by government to redistribute
wealth, or to control or manage trade, are improper in a free society.


We favor free-market banking, with unrestricted competition among banks and depository
institutions of all types. Individuals engaged in voluntary exchange should be free to use as money
any mutually agreeable commodity or item. We support a halt to inflationary monetary policies and
unconstitutional legal tender laws.

[Parker2112]

I honestly could give two shits about your posts on libertarian philosophy....and you want someone to read your posts? :lmao



...because you don't seem to have a firm grasp on what libertarian philosophy is. You love to champion it and you obviously have a crush on Ron Paul but its obvious you don't actually subscribe to libertarian ideals when you bring up government intervention. There's a reason every intelligent person on this board clashes with you on this subject and its not because we're all misunderstanding you.

You know, when EVERYONE is clashing with you then you might want to stop blaming it on everyone else. Just a thought.

It draws criticism because it contradicts the right and left. And I openly ridicule both sides every day. And I could give a fuck about the backlash, because its expected. And you and your other we-need-big-govt-to-combat-global-warming crowd can never advocate for reduction of federal govt because of your own biases. So your stance on libertarian school of thought is entirely predictable as well.

As for what the libertarian platform is, why dont you spend some of your precious time and point to some place I contradicted it?

When you realize you cant, then feel free to kill all that fucking noise.

[Parker2112]

Libertarian Party Platform. You might want to take some time to actually read it.

http://www.lp.org/platform

oh fuck.

Do you understand the implications of the Federal Reserve on true competition amongst banks? Do you understand the implications of ending the fed and putting currency control in the hands of the treasury, where the constitution prescribes? Do you understand why I have advocated for an audit of the fed? Do you fucking understand that the fed is anything BUT free competition?

Ignorance on full display. If you cant figure out the party line, then just fucking stop Manny. Stop with the bullshit theories about a platform you have yet to comprehend, much less the implications on society, and go back to Rachel Maddow and Jon Stewart for your next marching orders. The idea is too big for you bud.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Even if this country were smart, educated, voting, non-apathetic, it is insanely naive to believe the people at the top would not still be screwing us.

[MannyIsGod]

oh fuck.

Do you understand the implications of the Federal Reserve on true competition amongst banks? Do you understand the implications of ending the fed and putting currency control in the hands of the treasury, where the constitution prescribes? Do you understand why I have advocated for an audit of the fed? Do you fucking understand that the fed is anything BUT free competition?

Ignorance on full display. If you cant figure out the party line, then just fucking stop Manny. Stop with the bullshit theories about a platform you have yet to comprehend, much less the implications on society, and go back to Rachel Maddow and Jon Stewart for your next marching orders. The idea is too big for you bud.

Was I ever arguing in favor of the fed? I've read about the libertarian platform for much longer than you have. Didn't you say you were a recent convert?

And you'd LOVE to think everyone argues with you because you slam both left and right but most of the posters here have problems with both the left and the right. You have built yourself up so much in your own head. There is a reason why everyone argues with you Parker. Ignore it if you'd like.

[MannyIsGod]

Even if this country were smart, educated, voting, non-apathetic, it is insanely naive to believe the people at the top would not still be screwing us.

Why? Don't we have the problem to remove those people who screw us? Explain how a public which you just mentioned would allow that to happen.

CBF do you think people like you put Bush into power? Or do you think it was the ignorant masses?

[MannyIsGod]

and you want someone to read your posts? :lmao




It draws criticism because it contradicts the right and left. And I openly ridicule both sides every day. And I could give a fuck about the backlash, because its expected. And you and your other we-need-big-govt-to-combat-global-warming crowd can never advocate for reduction of federal govt because of your own biases. So your stance on libertarian school of thought is entirely predictable as well.

As for what the libertarian platform is, why dont you spend some of your precious time and point to some place I contradicted it?

When you realize you cant, then feel free to kill all that fucking noise.

I have almost always advocated the reduction of federal government and I have a long posting history in this very forum that says as much.

Try again.

As for when you contradicted it you've done so in every thread where you have called for government action and that is quite a few threads. You've done so in this thread:



the last few generations have been trained to tune out of reality all together. never have the distractions been so numerous as now. recreational technology is making slaves of young people more and more each day. its no wonder no one gives a fuck.

Also: Cosmic Cowboy is owning your ass on that tax argument, you just dont want to admit it.

Libertarian philosophy and your first paragraph are completely inconsistent.

[MannyIsGod]

you guys all miss the boat. Handle it in the courts. How is that a huge hole? EPA is more subject to administration pressure than judges.

It would require more diligence by private activist groups to monitor activities. And regulation can still happen. But the govt has not kept this country environmentally safe. Look at the Gulf.

LP Platform


We realize that our planet's climate is constantly changing, but environmental advocates and social pressure are the most effective means of changing public behavior.

Inconsisent

Edit: I'll expand on this. Courts are a government entity which require regulation in order to operate. You must have a standard or laws in order for them to function. They are part of the government no matter how you slice it.

The libertarian party doesn't want these issues decided by the government in court. They want social and free market pressures to decide this. In other words, if Company A makes a product in a clean way and Company B makes it in a dirty way they don't want people to sue Company B they want them to simply not purchase the product.

A solution in the courts is completely out of whack with what the Libertarian Party wants.

[MannyIsGod]

I'm not interested in looking further back, but as I said Parker there is a reason you clash with everyone and considering most here bear little or no allegiance to either party you trying to say its because you bash both parties is laughable.

Considering you've named yourself a recent libertarian (unless I'm mistaken?) many here have been discussing the pros and cons of libertarianism for almost a decade in this forum I really don't think that has even the slightest bit of merit.

[Parker2112]

LP Platform



Inconsisent

Edit: I'll expand on this. Courts are a government entity which require regulation in order to operate. You must have a standard or laws in order for them to function. They are part of the government no matter how you slice it.

The libertarian party doesn't want these issues decided by the government in court. They want social and free market pressures to decide this. In other words, if Company A makes a product in a clean way and Company B makes it in a dirty way they don't want people to sue Company B they want them to simply not purchase the product.

A solution in the courts is completely out of whack with what the Libertarian Party wants.

been reading it for years eh?

The lynchpin of the libertarian approach is protecting private rights in court, rather than through a bloated administrative agency.

Evidently you dont know shit about libertarian platform, manny. Keeping deluding yourself.

[Parker2112]

LP Platform



Inconsisent

Edit: I'll expand on this. Courts are a government entity ...

you dont know jack. end of story.

[MannyIsGod]

you dont know jack. end of story.

Cato institutes stance on the environment


Science can inform individual preferences but cannot resolve environmental
conflicts. Environmental goods and services, to the greatest extent
possible, should be treated like other goods and services in the marketplace.
People should be free to secure their preferences about the consumption
of environmental goods such as clean air or clean water regardless of
whether some scientists think such preferences are legitimate or not. Likewise,
people should be free, to the greatest extent possible, to make
decisions consistent with their own risk tolerances regardless of scientific
or even public opinion.

http://www.cato.org/pubs/handbook/hb111/hb111-44.pdf

Yeah, I don't know jack.

[MannyIsGod]

been reading it for years eh?

The lynchpin of the libertarian approach is protecting private rights in court, rather than through a bloated administrative agency.

Evidently you dont know shit about libertarian platform, manny. Keeping deluding yourself.

Sure, direct me to the part of the libertarian platform that says this. The lynchpin in the libertarian approach is an educated and informed public which is able to make appropriate decisions in the free market according to their preference.

The fact that the libertarian party wants a government with preference neutrality completely counters the idea of courts imposing what they see as fair.

[Parker2112]

I'm not interested in looking further back, but as I said Parker there is a reason you clash with everyone and considering most here bear little or no allegiance to either party you trying to say its because you bash both parties is laughable.

Considering you've named yourself a recent libertarian (unless I'm mistaken?) many here have been discussing the pros and cons of libertarianism for almost a decade in this forum I really don't think that has even the slightest bit of merit.

there are more reasons than just my calling out the right and the left. I have said some really cross shit since Ive been posting here, and rubbed many the wrong way. Even those who I have never insulted or ridiculed take offesne to the way I have gone after other posters. Im not here to make friends.

Also: My main goal posting here is solely to put the third party views at the table. Otherwise I dont do my homework. I am here solely to secure airtime for an alternative message. And to bash the trash that got us into this predicament in the first place (the two party paradigm). And you need to open your eyes to the fact that MOST posters here are hopelessly invested in leaning one way or the other. Whats more, most posters here are hopelessly invested in buying the status quo as the only way that will work. Yourself included ("we are incapable of making libertarianism work. We must keep the status quo").

[Parker2112]

Sure, direct me to the part of the libertarian platform that says this. The lynchpin in the libertarian approach is an educated and informed public which is able to make appropriate decisions in the free market according to their preference.

The fact that the libertarian party wants a government with preference neutrality completely counters the idea of courts imposing what they see as fair.

if you know anything about libertarian philosophy, property rights of the individual are of paramount importance. how do you think property rights are protected?

[MannyIsGod]

Dude, the alternative message was here before you had even heard about it.

You really think highly of yourself, informer of the masses.

[Parker2112]

We, on the contrary, deny the right of any government to do these things, and hold that where governments exist, they must not violate the rights of any individual: namely, (1) the right to life -- accordingly we support the prohibition of the initiation of physical force against others; (2) the right to liberty of speech and action -- accordingly we oppose all attempts by government to abridge the freedom of speech and press, as well as government censorship in any form; and (3) the right to property -- accordingly we oppose all government interference with private property, such as confiscation, nationalization, and eminent domain, and support the prohibition of robbery, trespass, fraud, and misrepresentation.

Since governments, when instituted, must not violate individual rights, we oppose all interference by government in the areas of voluntary and contractual relations among individuals. People should not be forced to sacrifice their lives and property for the benefit of others. They should be left free by government to deal with one another as free traders; and the resultant economic system, the only one compatible with the protection of individual rights, is the free market.

http://www.lp.org/platform

[MannyIsGod]

if you know anything about libertarian philosophy, property rights of the individual are of paramount importance. how do you think property rights are protected?

Public goods are not covered by property rights of the individual. The environment is a public good.

Unless of course you can tell me who owns the Gulf of Mexico? Who owns our atmosphere? Who owns the national parks? Who owns the Mississippi Rivers? Who owns our aquifers?

Then again I don't know jack!

[MannyIsGod]

BRB bidding on the atmosphere on Ebay so my property rights protect it.

[Parker2112]

factories and corps never pollute private property?

[Parker2112]

you know shit dude. Do you understand how standing in a court of law works? Do you understand how citizen watchdog groups can sue over public resources? how riparian landowners have rights to sue over a body of water?

educate yourself, your in the stoneages. I cant even believe you want to argue libertarianism with any authority. you dont even understand property rights.

[MannyIsGod]

factories and corps never pollute private property?

Don't backtrack now please. The post I pulled from wasn't addressing public property. It was addressing all environmental regulation which is primary directed at protecting public property.

You asked me to provide where you were inconsistent with libertarian viewpoints so please don't backtrack now.

[MannyIsGod]

you know shit dude. Do you understand how standing in a court of law works? Do you understand how citizen watchdog groups can sue over public resources? how riparian landowners have rights to sue over a body of water?

educate yourself, your in the stoneages. I cant even believe you want to argue libertarianism with any authority. you dont even understand property rights.

You apparently can't get it through your head that this view you keep spouting is completely contrary to the libertarian platform.

Please provide me to something that backs that up.

[MannyIsGod]

you know shit dude. Do you understand how standing in a court of law works? Do you understand how citizen watchdog groups can sue over public resources? how riparian landowners have rights to sue over a body of water?

educate yourself, your in the stoneages. I cant even believe you want to argue libertarianism with any authority. you dont even understand property rights.

There are no property rights for public goods such as the atmosphere or the ocean, public lands, or our water sources. You can't seem to understand this.

[Parker2112]

not a chance. my shit is still totally consistent. I am simply pointing out the holes in your logic

[Parker2112]

dude, the fucking game is on.

[Parker2112]

As a free-market environmentalist (http://spurstalk.com/wiki/Free-market_environmentalist), he asserts private property rights (http://spurstalk.com/wiki/Property_rights) in relation to environmental protection and pollution prevention.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_paul

[MannyIsGod]

I can multitask. If you can't feel free to go watch it. When you come back, feel free to post some links to documentation backing up what you say as I have used the libertarian party and the largest libertarian think tanks publications to do.

Thanks.

[MannyIsGod]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_paul

Did you see the word private in your Wikipedia sentence? Thanks.

[Parker2112]

There are no property rights for public goods such as the atmosphere or the ocean, public lands, or our water sources. You can't seem to understand this.

then explain how shit like this happens:
http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/dayton-news/little-miami-river-watchdog-sues-over-proposed-zipline-expansion-1020195.html

[MannyIsGod]

then explain how shit like this happens:
http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/dayton-news/little-miami-river-watchdog-sues-over-proposed-zipline-expansion-1020195.html

Really? I mean really?

BECAUSE THATS NOT A LIBERTARIAN SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT.

:lmao

[Parker2112]

private groups sue over public resources all the time.


Environmental Defense has sued the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality (TCEQ), alleging that the agency has not complied with state law including its own rules


The Otter Project and the Environmental Defense Center (EDC) filed a lawsuit in federal district court against the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service today, in response to the Service’s failure to issue a final decision repealing the no otter zone--an outdated rule prohibiting southern sea otters from reestablishing historic populations in California waters south of Point Conception


The Northwest Environmental Defense Center is suing two federal agencies over a controversial gravel mining proposal for Oregon’s Chetco River.



Four environmental groups and a Montgomery County couple filed lawsuits yesterday arguing that federal transportation officials approved the intercounty connector project before adequately studying the highway's effects on wildlife and public health.

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah no shit, Parker. Thats because we're not in a libertarian form of government.

:lmao

I'm literally LOLing right now.

[Parker2112]

those laws that permit suit can exist in a libertarian system BECAUSE THEY DONT NECESSARILY REQUIRE AGENCIES TO ENFORCE! JUST AS IS THE CASE HERE, PRIVATE ENFORCEMENT IS TOTALLY A-OK!!!!

ARE YOU GETTING THE GIST YET?

[Parker2112]

you can downsize govt and put enforcement into the hands of private citizens (contrary to what you implied, which you are now backing away from), which is how libertarians would do it.

[MannyIsGod]

You realize that the Libertarian platform is to repeal those laws, right?

[MannyIsGod]

Read the Cato brief I posted then come back.

[Parker2112]

You realize that the Libertarian platform is to repeal those laws, right?

what "laws" are you talking about? the ones that allow you to sue a polluter for spoiling a public resource, as in standing granted by the SC?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friends_of_the_Earth,_Inc._v._Laidlaw_Environmenta l_Services,_Inc.

how would libertarians manage to take that off the books, fool? :lol

[Parker2112]

The Court held that the plaintiff (http://spurstalk.com/wiki/Plaintiff) residents in the area of South Carolina's (http://spurstalk.com/wiki/South_Carolina) North Tyger River (http://spurstalk.com/w/index.php?title=Tyger_River&action=edit&redlink=1) had standing to sue an industrial polluter, against whom various deterrent civil penalties (http://spurstalk.com/wiki/Civil_penalty) were being pursued. Standing was properly based on the fact that the residents alleged that they would have used the river (http://spurstalk.com/wiki/River) for recreational purposes, but could not because of the pollution (http://spurstalk.com/wiki/Pollution).

this was a case of riparian landowners suing to enforce their rights to a public water body

[Parker2112]

now that Ive informed you of rights you didnt know you had, get to work and go sue some polluters

[Parker2112]

two difft scenarios here: 1)private citizen sues private party over pollution to public resource, or 2) private citizen sues govt to enforce laws.

#1: standing does the trick. that and tons of cash.

#2:nyou need statutory grant of private enforcement or your sol.

[Parker2112]

Im out. get ta' sue'in.

[MannyIsGod]

Libertarians don't want that type of ruling. You need to read the platform and the brief I listed. You seem to think that somehow posting a ruling in a non libertarian form of government somehow enhances the libertarian party's position and I can't for the life of me understand why.

[Parker2112]

ah but they do, because those are private property rights (believe it or not) at stake.

[Parker2112]

and man, cato institute? that bunch of vieled neo-cons? what the hell do they have to do with true libertarians, who are completely anti-war? thats what i get for not paying attention...you're citing neocon sources to talk shit about Paul?

fuck the cato institute.

they dont give two shits about Ron Paul:
http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2007/12/07/cato-institute-vp-sneers-at-ron-paul-hes-not-our-kind-of-person/

http://wizbangpolitics.com/2008/01/12/cato-rejects-ron-paul.php

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/130382



Cato Institute Historically Has Rejected Ron Paul


Submitted by Doug Eberhardt (http://www.dailypaul.com/user/837) on Tue, 03/30/2010 - 21:34 in

Daily Paul Liberty Forum (http://www.dailypaul.com/forum/177)

There was someone who was asking about Cato Institute awhile back, but it seems that the ability to respond to that thread has ended.
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/115633
Lately, I have been reading some folks on LewRockwell.com criticizing the connections of the Cato Institute and in particular, today, a comment by Thomas DiLorenzo that kind of brings one's views about them to their proper conclusion.
In a nutshell, the Cato Institute is a Libertarian organization that hasn't invited Ron Paul to speak in over 27 years, but has invited "dozens, perhaps hundreds" folks from the Fed to speak. That and they are partially funded by "the biggest Republican donors in the world," the Koch brothers who are presently funding Rand Paul's opponent, Trey Grayson.
Details from http://LewRockwell.com: (http://lewrockwell.com/)
Koch Brothers Fund Trey Grayson’s Campaign (http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/54531.html)
Posted by Lew Rockwell ([email protected]) on March 30, 2010 08:44 AM
I have it on very good authority that Charles and David Koch, the ex-libertarian oil plutocrats of Wichita, Kansas, are helping bankroll neocon Trey Grayson’s senate campaign in Kentucky against Rand Paul. Grayson, who has been endorsed by Dick Cheney, is the protege of Mitch McConnell, the Bob Dole of Kentucky. Dole was also a favorite of the Kochs. This all makes twisted sense, since the Kochs are—says the BBC’s Greg Palast (https://www.amazon.com/dp/0452285674?tag=lewrockwell&camp=213381&creative=390973&linkCode=as4&creativeASIN=0452285674&adid=0QWBYAWMAHCHWVPAY1C9&)—the biggest Republican donors in the world, officially and otherwise. Of course, they support, and massively profit from, the regime. BTW, one hobby of the Kochs is their anti-Ron Paul “libertarian” Beltway movement.
UPDATE Thanks to Justin Raimondo for this (http://63.e5bed1.client.atlantech.net/pacs/expenddetail.php?cycle=2010&cmte=C00236489&name=Friends+Of+Trey+Grayson), which—btw—is only a small part of their funding.
UPDATE from Butler Shaffer:

I’m still impressed by the late Sam Konkin’s characterization of this crowd as “the Kochtopus.”
Koch Industries Expenditure Detail (http://63.e5bed1.client.atlantech.net/pacs/expenddetail.php?cycle=2010&cmte=C00236489&name=Friends+Of+Trey+Grayson)
Friends Of Trey Grayson, Ft Mitchell, KY
$1,000
2010 Primary
11/16/09
Friends Of Trey Grayson, Ft Mitchell, KY
$4,000
2010 Primary
11/16/09
Posted by Thomas DiLorenzo ([email protected]) on March 30, 2010 12:43 PM
Another example of the Kochtopus (http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/54531.html)/GOP (excuse me for repeating myself) animus toward Ron Paul is that one of the D.C. tentacles of the Kochtopus, the “libertarian” Cato Institute, has held an annual monetary conference for 27 straight years now, and has never once invited the most famous libertarian critic of central banking, Ron Paul, to speak. On the other hand, dozens — perhaps hundreds — of Fed bureaucrats have bloviated at these conferences for nearly three decades.
Stuki, I'm writing a comment to you here because of the spam filters not allowing me to reply to your post below.
is with their support, along with the others I mentioned in my YAL post below, for the war.
I did mention that there are some commonalities, but I can't choose the love of war and deat h over life and liberty. Neither can the Lew Rockwell crowd.
What does Cato, Heritage Foundation, FreedomWorks, and the other Koch supported organizations have against life?

[Parker2112]

get your shit straight Manny. your citing run of the mill republican crap to attack the Ron Paul Libertarian movement.

[MannyIsGod]

The Cato Institute is a bunch of NeoCons?

:lol :lol :lol

[MannyIsGod]

I'm going to take a guess that you were introduced to Libertarianism during Ron Paul's recent presidential campaign. Am I right?

[MannyIsGod]

get your shit straight Manny. your citing run of the mill republican crap to attack the Ron Paul Libertarian movement.

Thats some funny shit right there. You somehow think Ron Paul is the Libertarian Jesus sent to spread the new gospel.

Ron Paul is far from the center of the libertarian universe. I hate to break it to you, but Libertarianism is far greater than Ron Paul.

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah, the Cato Institute really rejects Ron Paul.

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=8828
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=11709

Ron Paul SPEAKING at the Cato Institute.

http://www.cato.org/weekly/index.php?vid_id=113

I'm fairly certain at this point you had no fucking clue about Cato until I posted it earlier. Then you decided to go googling it and you found that above. You should use google better.

Here, let me help

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=cato+ron+paul#hl=en&q=+site:cato.org+cato+ron+paul&sa=X&ei=ItP5TK7oHYSdlgfCgoG4DA&ved=0CAIQqAQwAw&fp=4488cb887e893d25

Cato rejects Ron Paul huh?

[MannyIsGod]

In some ways Ron Paul is the antidote for every problem that plagued Republicans in 2006: Voters were tired of Republican corruption, and Ron Paul has never succumbed to the temptations of Washington.

God damn they reject Ron Paul.

http://www.cato.org/homepage_item.php?id=680

[Parker2112]

Yeah, the Cato Institute really rejects Ron Paul.

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=8828
(NO Endorsement here.)

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=11709
(None here.)

Ron Paul SPEAKING at the Cato Institute.

http://www.cato.org/weekly/index.php?vid_id=113

(thats the first time in, what, 30 years?)
I'm fairly certain at this point you had no fucking clue about Cato until I posted it earlier. Then you decided to go googling it and you found that above. You should use google better.

Here, let me help

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=cato+ron+paul#hl=en&q=+site:cato.org+cato+ron+paul&sa=X&ei=ItP5TK7oHYSdlgfCgoG4DA&ved=0CAIQqAQwAw&fp=4488cb887e893d25

Cato rejects Ron Paul huh?

When are you going to address the info I posted earlier? Maybe, never? So you post a few articles from their webpage where they mention his views?

maybe point out the part where they actually endorse him for anything but a chance for republicans to reconsider their policies since Reagan, and you might have supported your contention. otherwise....:sleep

[Parker2112]

God damn they reject Ron Paul.

http://www.cato.org/homepage_item.php?id=680

when did they endorse him? again...:sleep

[Parker2112]

Thats some funny shit right there. You somehow think Ron Paul is the Libertarian Jesus sent to spread the new gospel.

Ron Paul is far from the center of the libertarian universe. I hate to break it to you, but Libertarianism is far greater than Ron Paul.

And does every person who claims to be a republican support Bush?

So is Ron Paul Libertarian or not? So, its not enough to agree with Paul to call myself a libertarian? I cant be a "real" Libertarian till I agree with the libertarian materials you throw in my face? You've gotta be shittin me holmes....

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Why? Don't we have the problem to remove those people who screw us? Explain how a public which you just mentioned would allow that to happen.

CBF do you think people like you put Bush into power? Or do you think it was the ignorant masses?

No dude this financial crisis has opened my eyes wider than I ever thought possible. And while theres no doubt a shitload of Americans just want their Apple products to have great apps, and just want to jack off on fantasy football, etc....I have no fucking doubt the outcome would be the same regardless of us, the American people. I believe the modern world is where it is partly because of the stupidity and indifference and apathy of the common person but I think the major part of it is that the people with money controlling everything are going to do whatever they want, and can morph their actions for the situation to make themselves look as clean as possible.

Even if we play hypotheticals and say "what if americans were smart, voting, involved" etc. Well where would the start-off point be?

Like you said with Bush....well Gore was a shit candidate too. And the way most those lemming Democrats folded all-so Democrat-like to agree on going to War, even if Gore had been elected we would have invaded at least one country. The economical-political calculus practically dicatated that America needed a major conflict at that point in time. Clinton was setting NATO precedents in minor conflicts while carefully ignoring others. I do not see that as a coincidence. It was all part of a larger tapestry of a plan.

It's all a big fucking game, and the American/Western middle class is the inevitable loser. We are the biggest source of wealth in the world, and the bottom line is they want it. And what have we seen ever since America was the indisputable number 1 power in this world? A obscenely direct, forced, rushed sapping of the wealth of the Western middle-class. By their/our own fucking leaders. Almost every major piece of legislation in America has been sapping away life of the middle class.

If we all somehow got smarter and involved and lobbied, protested, wrote congressmen, at some point in this decade....no end result would have come out of it. They would do what they want, maybe it would take longer, maybe they would present the legislation differently but the actual result would be the same.

If we all saw the emperor were wearing no clothes, and went out and did something about it....you'd see rioting on the streets kinda like in Europe (where say what you will, but at least they have the balls to tell their people they need to make the cuts they need to make, and the people have the balls to actually RIOT). And what has that rioting done? Nothing. And it never will. Because the framework is already in place in America for our own police and armed forces to mark rioters as terrorists and do whatever the fuck they want with us, legally, and make dissidents disappear.
And the people actually enforcing this will enforce it because jobs are becoming scarcer, and scarcer, and they just will want to earn their living and go home at the end of the day.

It's going to take an armageddon-like scenario for people in America to truly riot in a fashion that will illicit some change, but by then everyone is already a loser, them and us.

It's a rigged game, they have rigged it, they are going to win it, and we are going to lose it. It always was a rigged game, we never had any chance to win.

[Parker2112]

And when you get a chance, why dont you deal with this:


Cato Institute Historically Has Rejected Ron Paul



Submitted by Doug Eberhardt (http://www.dailypaul.com/user/837) on Tue, 03/30/2010 - 21:34 in

Daily Paul Liberty Forum (http://www.dailypaul.com/forum/177)
There was someone who was asking about Cato Institute awhile back, but it seems that the ability to respond to that thread has ended.
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/115633 (http://www.dailypaul.com/node/115633)
Lately, I have been reading some folks on LewRockwell.com criticizing the connections of the Cato Institute and in particular, today, a comment by Thomas DiLorenzo that kind of brings one's views about them to their proper conclusion.
In a nutshell, the Cato Institute is a Libertarian organization that hasn't invited Ron Paul to speak in over 27 years, but has invited "dozens, perhaps hundreds" folks from the Fed to speak. That and they are partially funded by "the biggest Republican donors in the world," the Koch brothers who are presently funding Rand Paul's opponent, Trey Grayson.
Details from http://LewRockwell.com: (http://lewrockwell.com/)
Koch Brothers Fund Trey Grayson’s Campaign (http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/54531.html)
Posted by Lew Rockwell ([email protected]) on March 30, 2010 08:44 AM
I have it on very good authority that Charles and David Koch, the ex-libertarian oil plutocrats of Wichita, Kansas, are helping bankroll neocon Trey Grayson’s senate campaign in Kentucky against Rand Paul. Grayson, who has been endorsed by Dick Cheney, is the protege of Mitch McConnell, the Bob Dole of Kentucky. Dole was also a favorite of the Kochs. This all makes twisted sense, since the Kochs are—says the BBC’s Greg Palast (https://www.amazon.com/dp/0452285674?tag=lewrockwell&camp=213381&creative=390973&linkCode=as4&creativeASIN=0452285674&adid=0QWBYAWMAHCHWVPAY1C9&)—the biggest Republican donors in the world, officially and otherwise. Of course, they support, and massively profit from, the regime. BTW, one hobby of the Kochs is their anti-Ron Paul “libertarian” Beltway movement.
UPDATE Thanks to Justin Raimondo for this (http://63.e5bed1.client.atlantech.net/pacs/expenddetail.php?cycle=2010&cmte=C00236489&name=Friends+Of+Trey+Grayson), which—btw—is only a small part of their funding.
UPDATE from Butler Shaffer:

I’m still impressed by the late Sam Konkin’s characterization of this crowd as “the Kochtopus.”
Koch Industries Expenditure Detail (http://63.e5bed1.client.atlantech.net/pacs/expenddetail.php?cycle=2010&cmte=C00236489&name=Friends+Of+Trey+Grayson)
Friends Of Trey Grayson, Ft Mitchell, KY
$1,000
2010 Primary
11/16/09
Friends Of Trey Grayson, Ft Mitchell, KY
$4,000
2010 Primary
11/16/09
Posted by Thomas DiLorenzo ([email protected]) on March 30, 2010 12:43 PM
Another example of the Kochtopus (http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/54531.html)/GOP (excuse me for repeating myself) animus toward Ron Paul is that one of the D.C. tentacles of the Kochtopus, the “libertarian” Cato Institute, has held an annual monetary conference for 27 straight years now, and has never once invited the most famous libertarian critic of central banking, Ron Paul, to speak. On the other hand, dozens — perhaps hundreds — of Fed bureaucrats have bloviated at these conferences for nearly three decades.
Stuki, I'm writing a comment to you here because of the spam filters not allowing me to reply to your post below.
is with their support, along with the others I mentioned in my YAL post below, for the war.
I did mention that there are some commonalities, but I can't choose the love of war and deat h over life and liberty. Neither can the Lew Rockwell crowd.
What does Cato, Heritage Foundation, FreedomWorks, and the other Koch supported organizations have against life?

[MannyIsGod]

No dude this financial crisis has opened my eyes wider than I ever thought possible. And while theres no doubt a shitload of Americans just want their Apple products to have great apps, and just want to jack off on fantasy football, etc....I have no fucking doubt the outcome would be the same regardless of us, the American people. I believe the modern world is where it is partly because of the stupidity and indifference and apathy of the common person but I think the major part of it is that the people with money controlling everything are going to do whatever they want, and can morph their actions for the situation to make themselves look as clean as possible.

Even if we play hypotheticals and say "what if americans were smart, voting, involved" etc. Well where would the start-off point be?

Like you said with Bush....well Gore was a shit candidate too. And the way most those lemming Democrats folded all-so Democrat-like to agree on going to War, even if Gore had been elected we would have invaded at least one country. The economical-political calculus practically dicatated that America needed a major conflict at that point in time. Clinton was setting NATO precedents in minor conflicts while carefully ignoring others. I do not see that as a coincidence. It was all part of a larger tapestry of a plan.

It's all a big fucking game, and the American/Western middle class is the inevitable loser. We are the biggest source of wealth in the world, and the bottom line is they want it. And what have we seen ever since America was the indisputable number 1 power in this world? A obscenely direct, forced, rushed sapping of the wealth of the Western middle-class. By their/our own fucking leaders. Almost every major piece of legislation in America has been sapping away life of the middle class.

If we all somehow got smarter and involved and lobbied, protested, wrote congressmen, at some point in this decade....no end result would have come out of it. They would do what they want, maybe it would take longer, maybe they would present the legislation differently but the actual result would be the same.

If we all saw the emperor were wearing no clothes, and went out and did something about it....you'd see rioting on the streets kinda like in Europe (where say what you will, but at least they have the balls to tell their people they need to make the cuts they need to make, and the people have the balls to actually RIOT). And what has that rioting done? Nothing. And it never will. Because the framework is already in place in America for our own police and armed forces to mark rioters as terrorists and do whatever the fuck they want with us, legally, and make dissidents disappear.
And the people actually enforcing this will enforce it because jobs are becoming scarcer, and scarcer, and they just will want to earn their living and go home at the end of the day.

It's going to take an armageddon-like scenario for people in America to truly riot in a fashion that will illicit some change, but by then everyone is already a loser, them and us.

It's a rigged game, they have rigged it, they are going to win it, and we are going to lose it. It always was a rigged game, we never had any chance to win.

You don't think a smarter and more involved populace would select better parties and candidates? A populace that didn't doesn't seem very smart or informed to me.

If everyone realize what you did, do you think they would just sit there and take it?

The shit like the rioting gets dismissed because its a small number of people, CBF. The rest are too ignorant or apathetic to do anything. Its not because of government control.

[Parker2112]

They love him so much, he wasnt even on the radar during discussion in the last election



The Cato Institute on Ron Paul (http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/18180.html)

Posted by Lew Rockwell ([email protected]) on January 3, 2008 12:25 PM
Well, not actually on Ron Paul. Publications from the Nation to the Chistian Science Monitor have commented on the disdain for Ron that permeates the Beltway libertarian establshment. But today, at the Cato Institute, he doesn’t even exist (http://www.cato.org/pressroom.php?display=comments&id=796):
“For the Republicans, it’s a battle to take-on Rudy Giuliani on Super Tuesday. Mike Huckabee must win Iowa, as he won’t be winning New Hampshire. Mitt Romney’s traditional early state strategy will be in tatters if he loses tonight, as he faces the prospect of losing next week to John McCain. Which leaves Fred Thompson, if he’s still in the race, waiting on South Carolina to restart his plodding campaign. Separate winners in Iowa and New Hampshire may strongly reposition Giuliani, despite a dwindling national lead, to face-down his divided, socially conservative opposition.” (Thanks to Becky Akers.)

[Parker2112]

first page google search. maybe you're "superior google skills" missed it lofl

[Cant_Be_Faded]

You don't think a smarter and more involved populace would select better parties and candidates? A populace that didn't doesn't seem very smart or informed to me.

If everyone realize what you did, do you think they would just sit there and take it?

The shit like the rioting gets dismissed because its a small number of people, CBF. The rest are too ignorant or apathetic to do anything. Its not because of government control.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

It's not like I've personally stopped voting, etc. I have actually stopped following politics as much as I used to, and lately been following money and trying to make more of it during this crazy market. But when I really really delve into the way this works, I just can't help it but fully believe the powers-that-be would just press even harder if the populace pressed them. There's just wayyy too much money at stake here. And money always rules.

[MannyIsGod]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

It's not like I've personally stopped voting, etc. I have actually stopped following politics as much as I used to, and lately been following money and trying to make more of it during this crazy market. But when I really really delve into the way this works, I just can't help it but fully believe the powers-that-be would just press even harder if the populace pressed them. There's just wayyy too much money at stake here. And money always rules.

I don't totally disagree with you, but I pretty much think its impossible for this type of situation to occur with an educated and informed population. I don't believe there is any large systematic control of the population going on at all I just think that people are able to manipulate the system at their will if they have the resources because the people are asleep at the wheel.

When you have a small group of people with resources manipulating the system to their collective good it can very much come across as a conspiracy even when its not.

It's like a department store with no police around experiencing looting CBF. All the people are in there stealing from it, but they're not working together in some vast criminal conspiracy.

[Parker2112]

MANNY: When you have a small group of people with resources manipulating the system to their collective good it can very much come across as a conspiracy even when its not.




con·spir·a·cy - any concurrence in action; combination in bringing about a given result.
:lmao:lmao

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I don't totally disagree with you, but I pretty much think its impossible for this type of situation to occur with an educated and informed population. I don't believe there is any large systematic control of the population going on at all I just think that people are able to manipulate the system at their will if they have the resources because the people are asleep at the wheel.

When you have a small group of people with resources manipulating the system to their collective good it can very much come across as a conspiracy even when its not.

It's like a department store with no police around experiencing looting CBF. All the people are in there stealing from it, but they're not working together in some vast criminal conspiracy.

See but I think it's impossible for a population to be fully educated and informed so in a sense I think we're both talking hypotheticals.

[MannyIsGod]

100%? Of course, but at what point does it become unachievable and at what point does it turn the tide? Fuck if I know but if the people aren't the ones who are going to change the system then boutons is right and we're all just fucked.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I'm not saying every person rigging and winning the system is trying to control us perse, but I do think enough of them have so much to lose if the people rebel that there will be blood in the streets if we all rose up and tried to do something about it.

The Patriot Act's Orwellian provisions were not a coincidence they were by design and we are seeing why. The lobbying winners were hedging their bets, covering their bases.

[Th'Pusher]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

It's not like I've personally stopped voting, etc. I have actually stopped following politics as much as I used to, and lately been following money and trying to make more of it during this crazy market. But when I really really delve into the way this works, I just can't help it but fully believe the powers-that-be would just press even harder if the populace pressed them. There's just wayyy too much money at stake here. And money always rules.

When you delve into the way it works, you'll see that it's simply a lack of organization. The powerful intrests are simply better organized and they've successfully attacked and removed any counterbalance to their primary objective of generating profit at any cost. Organized labor, dismantled. Science that doesn't advance or hinders their ability to profit, ignored.

Having a well organized and expertly executed objective is not a rigged game though. It's simply business, which is what they do best. Fortunately we live in a democracy where these issues can be addressed, but they'll only be addressed through an informed well organized populace.