The Detroit Pistons are the team to beat

[timvp]

I know that the Pistons just lost and I know that the Spurs just stormed through Phoenix, but the Pistons are still the team to beat. They are the league's best defensive team. They have some of the best clutch players. The are big, strong and hungry to repeat.

If the Spurs can get past the Suns and face Detroit, I'm worried that the Pistons are primed to take down this team. For several reasons, they're built to beat the Spurs.

1) Billups is exactly the type of point guard that hurts Parker. Parker can overcome most point guards, with the only exceptions being the strong ones. That's why Stephon Marbury always gives him trouble. That's why Billups will be tough.

2) Prince will make life tough for Manu. Manu hasn't really faced a good defender in the playoffs. Prince is a top three perimeter defender. He's long and will be able to bother Manu's shots.

3) Rasheed Wallace and Ben Wallace are two of the better players in the league in regards to guarding Tim Duncan. Combined, they are no doubt the toughest matchup for TD. Rasheed is perhaps the best defender on Duncan, going back to his Portland days. Ben Wallace will provide great help side defense.

4) Hamilton will be able to rest by guarding Bowen. Or if Prince is out of the game, he's another guy who you can throw at Manu.

5) The Pistons are great at taking away three-point shooters. Thus, Horry and Barry will have limited impacts.

6) Offensively, the Pistons have some mismatches. Bowen will no doubt be on Hamilton, leaving Manu on Prince. That matchup is a nightmare for the Spurs.

7) Pop's man-love for Larry Brown might lead him to not take the right approach to the series. He might be too worried about offended his best friend instead of just concentrating on beating him.


All in all, Spurs fans need to settle down. It's way too early to starting talking about river boats. The Suns series isn't over and the Pistons are waiting right around the corner. If you are building a team to beat the Spurs, the Pistons are pretty darn close to what you'd come up with.

Recognize.











Believe.

[SequSpur]

They just lost, they played poorly in games against Indiana... Spurs sweep.

[ducks]

larry brown is overrated
pop should easly outcoach him
billups had 8 turnovrs tonight
spurs have beaten the pistons before
pistons have not gotten by heat yet
wade was on fire with that great d with heat
wade sucked in game one due to rest not pistons d

[ducks]

I will add pistons will be the best team spur faced in postseason
I thought suns would have been but unless they make big adjustments pistons will give the spurs more trouble

[Old School Chic]

They are big, strong and hungry to repeat.

You forgot ugly. :lol

[ducks]

prince is great but manu will get him in foul trouble
manu is a allstar and is getting calls now

[Tek_XX]

The pistons are an excellant team, but the spurs are just as good offensively and Defensively. It will be a tough series...if the spurs get past the suns.

[PM5K]

I know that the Pistons just lost and I know that the Spurs just stormed through Phoenix, but the Pistons are still the team to beat. They are the league's best defensive team. They have some of the best clutch players. The are big, strong and hungry to repeat.

If the Spurs can get past the Suns and face Detroit, I'm worried that the Pistons are primed to take down this team. For several reasons, they're built to beat the Spurs.

1) Billups is exactly the type of point guard that hurts Parker. Parker can overcome most point guards, with the only exceptions being the strong ones. That's why Stephon Marbury always gives him trouble. That's why Billups will be tough.

2) Prince will make life tough for Manu. Manu hasn't really faced a good defender in the playoffs. Prince is a top three perimeter defender. He's long and will be able to bother Manu's shots.

3) Rasheed Wallace and Ben Wallace are two of the better players in the league in regards to guarding Tim Duncan. Combined, they are no doubt the toughest matchup for TD. Rasheed is perhaps the best defender on Duncan, going back to his Portland days. Ben Wallace will provide great help side defense.

4) Hamilton will be able to rest by guarding Bowen. Or if Prince is out of the game, he's another guy who you can throw at Manu.

5) The Pistons are great at taking away three-point shooters. Thus, Horry and Barry will have limited impacts.

6) Offensively, the Pistons have some mismatches. Bowen will no doubt be on Hamilton, leaving Manu on Prince. That matchup is a nightmare for the Spurs.

7) Pop's man-love for Larry Brown might lead him to not take the right approach to the series. He might be too worried about offended his best friend instead of just concentrating on beating him.


All in all, Spurs fans need to settle down. It's way too early to starting talking about river boats. The Suns series isn't over and the Pistons are waiting right around the corner. If you are building a team to beat the Spurs, the Pistons are pretty darn close to what you'd come up with.

Recognize.











Believe.

Thanks Captain Obvious !

The Champs Are The Team To Beat, Really ???

[timvp]

Thanks Captain Obvious !

The Champs Are The Team To Beat, Really ???

Another great post by PM5K.

To go with all the others he's had.

[Kori Ellis]

Thanks Captain Obvious !

The Champs Are The Team To Beat, Really ???


Did you actually read the breakdown of the concerns with the specific matchups? Or you just responded with your routine smart-ass comment?

[Nikos]

I truly think Detroit is beatable. I like the Spurs matching up against them best. Obviously if Shaq's isn't close to healthy, then Miami would be better. But I just don't think Detroit is a team to fear. The Spurs have the balance to beat them IMO.

But first things first, they have to beat the Suns first.

[3rdCoast]

Guys, I am extremely saddened by yall. You are making ASSumptions that Miami will not win the series when it is tied 1-1. :wtf :pctoss

[Kori Ellis]

I truly think Detroit is beatable. I like the Spurs matching up against them best. Obviously if Shaq's isn't close to healthy, then Miami would be better. But I just don't think Detroit is a team to fear. The Spurs have the balance to beat them IMO.

But first things first, they have to beat the Suns first.

I think both the Pistons and the Heat will give the Spurs huge match-up problems. A lot of Spurs fans seem to think that after the Suns, it's a cakewalk. I don't think so.

Plus you are right, the Suns series isn't over yet.

[timvp]

Guys, I am extremely saddened by yall. You are making ASSumptions that Miami will not win the series when it is tied 1-1. :wtf :pctoss

Unless Shaq can get to at least 80%, that series is done in five.

[3rdCoast]

Unless Shaq can get to at least 80%, that series is done in five.

At 1-1 the series is done? Even though they just won tonight? I am missing something.Or I am just that dumb, you pick.

You better hope the Heat win, your Swishahouse CD's are on the line.... :fro

[Guru of Nothing]

Detroit presents some challenging matchups, but I don't see them taking the Spurs beyond game 6 (if we get past PHX and they get past MIA).

[ducks]

who have the pistons played in playoffs
they have not really been tested in postseason
pacers please without artest
heat without shaq

[Boo]

Miami scares me more than Detroit.

[2centsworth]

Phoenix is clearly the team to beat right now, but if the spurs advance to face detroit I don't think Detroit will win for several reasons.

1. Spurs have more talent

2. Detroit doesn't shoot the 3 all that well

3. They have no real inside scoring presence. Wallace has turned himself into a jump shooter.

4. Spurs have home court.

5. Detroit's offense sucks, just wait to you match up their terrible offense with the spurs defense. Though the spurs may only score 80, detroit will struggle to break 70.


The Heat will give the spurs the most trouble.

[timvp]

who have the pistons played in playoffs
they have not really been tested in postseason
pacers please without artest
heat without shaq

How soon Spurs fans forget how the Pistons dominated the team that beat the Spurs last year.

[ducks]

heat scare me more
shaq lands on manu or tp they are toast :oops

[ducks]

How soon Spurs fans forget how the Pistons dominated the team that beat the Spurs last year.

pistons played MUCH BETTER LAST YEAR

[timvp]

Phoenix is clearly the team to beat right now, but if the spurs advance to face detroit I don't think Detroit will win for several reasons.

1. Spurs have more talent

2. Detroit doesn't shoot the 3 all that well

3. They have no real inside scoring presence. Wallace has turned himself into a jump shooter.

4. Spurs have home court.

5. Detroit's offense sucks, just wait to you match up their terrible offense with the spurs defense. Though the spurs may only score 80, detroit will struggle to break 70.


The Heat will give the spurs the most trouble.

Congrats on coming back with reasons to back up your view point. Much better than PMS above.

Though they aren't noted to be a great three-point shooting team, they did well tonight. At one point the had eight straight threes, IIRC.

[Manu20]

The only problem for Detroit is that they don't have a good bench with the exeption of McDyess.

Also, the matchup that worries me the most is Billups vs. Parker. When Parker plays well the Spurs are almost unbeatable.

First the Spurs have to take care of the suns.

[timvp]

pistons played MUCH BETTER LAST YEAR

They did?

[Duff McCartney]

How soon Spurs fans forget how the Pistons dominated the team that beat the Spurs last year.

Please don't tell me you think both of these teams are the same as they were last year.

[3rdCoast]

Why are so many people counting Shaq out already? A Shaq at 50% is better than 90% of the NBA's big men. He is THAT DOMINANT.

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

who were the bigmen that the pistons had coming of the bench last year, it was Okur, and i think someone else i cant remember.

[ducks]

Cold spell from long range down the stretch hurts Pistons
By TIM REYNOLDS, AP Sports Writer
May 25, 2005

MIAMI (AP) -- A barrage of 3-pointers brought the Detroit Pistons to the brink of claiming a stranglehold on the Eastern Conference finals.

Then the long shots stopped falling, and the Miami Heat evened the series.

The Pistons missed six of their final seven 3-point tries, including two that were rushed by Rasheed Wallace in the final 2 minutes. Their reliance on the long shot -- and a 40-point night from Miami guard Dwyane Wade -- helped the Heat eke out a 92-86 win in Game 2 on Wednesday night.

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``Maybe we took some quick outside shots,'' said Pistons coach Larry Brown, whose team finished 9-for-23 from 3-point range. ``But I thought it was a great game. They just made the plays at the end that we made in Game 1.''

Detroit connected on eight 3-pointers in the first 38 minutes Wednesday -- including two by Chauncey Billups and Lindsey Hunter to end the third quarter, when the Pistons completed the climb from a 14-point first-half deficit and took a 63-62 lead.

Tayshaun Prince and Hunter each connected from behind the arc to open the fourth, giving the Pistons a 69-66 lead. Billups hit another 3-pointer with 6:08 left, again putting Detroit on top 76-74.

But the Pistons wouldn't lead again -- and it wasn't a coincidence that they didn't hit another 3-pointer.

Detroit isn't a team that heavily relies on the outside shot. The Pistons averaged 4.4 3-pointers per game in the regular season, and made 5.3 per game -- on 33.7 percent shooting -- in their first 12 playoff games.

Yet the 3-pointers were falling in waves early in the second half of Game 2. The Pistons were 5-for-8 from long range in the third quarter. Those 15 points matched Miami's total points in the period, during which Detroit turned an 11-point halftime deficit into a one-point lead.

And another 3-pointer that may have been ill-advised provided one of the game's biggest turning points.

Billups spotted up on the right wing with 2:40 left, and let fly with a shot that would have brought the Pistons within two points. But Wade came from behind and blocked the shot, sending the sellout crowd into a roar.

``He's as good as it gets in our league,'' Brown said.

Damon Jones' layup 11 seconds later pushed Miami's lead to 87-80 and the outcome was never seriously in doubt again.

[Nikos]

If Parker played well vs Pistons, then there is no way I can see them beating the Spurs. If Parker got dominated by Billups, then I think they would have a good chance.

As far as Prince goes, he hasn't been able to post up Wade at all. Yes Wade is stronger than Manu, but I think Manu can draw some charges if he digs down deep enough. Prince isn't really a good fadeaway shooter ala Rashard Lewis. Prince pretty much has to get all the way underneath to score it. And if Prince is good enough to destroy Manu on offense AND shut him down on defense, then he should be a Top 15 player in this league -- and if Prince is THAT good he should get at least 20ppg against the Heat, WHILE limiting Wade. The Heat's team defense isn't close to the Spurs, and Prince isn't exactly tearing it up.

If Prince is that much of a threat, why not put Bowen on him? If Wade can guard Prince in the post, I think Bowen can at least contain Tayshaun Prince.

I have no problems with Manu guarding Rip at all.

Duncan is an MVP calibur player and should be able to dominate when it matters. If he gets shut down by the Wallace's then how good is he really?

I am not saying the series would be easy, but the Spurs have the balance to outduel the Pistons. If they played aggressive and smart, they should be able to beat them in a series.

Anyhoo, the Pistons aren't a lock to beat the Heat, and same for the Spurs over the Suns. Still a lot of basketball left.

[Kori Ellis]

who were the bigmen that the pistons had coming of the bench last year, it was Okur, and i think someone else i cant remember.

Okur, Williamson, Campbell last year.

McDyess, Campbell this year.

[nkdlunch]

A lot of Spurs fans seem to think that after the Suns, it's a cakewalk. I don't think so.


Who thinks this??? Some people got some issues. :rolleyes

I'ts gonna be a war against Detroit. But Spurs are showing right now they want it more than the Pisstons, by all the hustle and killer insctinct shown in this series.

This is my last post about the Finals until Spurs are finished w/Suns. Don't want no bad karma.

[Nikos]

How soon Spurs fans forget how the Pistons dominated the team that beat the Spurs last year.

They dominated the Lakers, WITHOUT Malone. Big difference.

[3rdCoast]

They dominated the Lakers, WITHOUT Malone. Big difference.

Very true. I am still baffled how people are doubting Shaq and the HEAT.

[Duff McCartney]

Seriously, the way timvp puts it..should the Spurs get past the Suns, it's best if they don't even show up to the Finals.

[IceColdBrewski]

No doubt about it. Pistons are legit.

[blaze89]

As I stated in another thread, Pistons scare me the most. They match up well with the Spurs and play the team game well. They are also the defending champs so in the words of Ric Flair: "To be the man, you've got to beat the man!"

It should be a good series (provided we get past Phoenix), both games this year were close - game 1 - Detroit comes from behind and lose by 3 and in game 2 - the game which Duncan left with bad ankle - Spurs rallied but Detroit pulled away.

I feel Detroit is the team to beat.

[Kori Ellis]

Seriously, the way timvp puts it..should the Spurs get past the Suns, it's best if they don't even show up to the Finals.

Apparently you can't read.

[timvp]

Seriously, the way timvp puts it..should the Spurs get past the Suns, it's best if they don't even show up to the Finals.

:lol

I said that the Pistons are the team to beat. I didn't say the Spurs can't beat them. It'll be tough, but the Spurs will be favored by pretty much everybody.

[3rdCoast]

When the Heat make it then what? Is SA or PHX still favored???

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Timvp i think you made an excellent thread. Anytime the spurs face a defense which is even remotely stingy or physical the spurs offense is absolutely non existent. rasheed wallace is by far the best defender when it comes to guarding TD, no one can guard him as well as sheed, and tayshaun prince is gonna be a handful. we can keep rip down or chauncey down but i dont see us stopping both at the same time. also both wallaces should have no problem keeping parker out of the lane. and if parker isnt slicing through the lane, he's rendered pretty useless as his outside J is ugly! im really rooting for miami to pull it out against detroit tho it will probably be a 5 game series like u said. i think the chances of the spurs beating a showboating miami team (See: alonzo mourning) will be much easier than a rugged pistons team.

[myhc]

Detroit scares me much more than Miami does. In regards to the frontcourt matchups, Miami would be a war no doubt with even a less than 100% Shaq and Mourning as a backup. But Detroit has the bodies to throw at Duncan to limit him. Rasheed Wallace has always been one of the best at limiting Duncan and with Big Ben, McDyess and even Elden Campbell in the mix, I can see them neutralizing Duncan.

As for the backcourt, you know Wade is going to drop 25-30 on you but nobody else on that team scares me. Detroit on the other hand is so unpredictable. Both Billups and Hamilton are streaky shooters but when it counts, they are both very clutch in the 4th quarter. And like you said TPark, I worry about Billups scoring on Tony down on the post again and again.

[Old School Chic]

http://www.portorso.net/ronny00.gif

:vomit Yuk!

[Nikos]

Timvp?

One thing I remember you saying last year was how Malone's absense paved the way for the Pistons to win it. I distinctly remember you saying the Pistons would not have won the series if Malone was 100%. Why the change of opinion all of a sudden? Why are the Pistons so dominant now? Why are they any better than the Spurs were last year? Or a healthy Lakers for that matter?

[timvp]

If Parker played well vs Pistons, then there is no way I can see them beating the Spurs. If Parker got dominated by Billups, then I think they would have a good chance.

True.


As far as Prince goes, he hasn't been able to post up Wade at all.

Yes he has. And he's been able to shoot over him.


Prince isn't really a good fadeaway shooter ala Rashard Lewis. Prince pretty much has to get all the way underneath to score it.

Huh?

He has one of the best mid-range games in the league. He can hit from a lot of places on the court.


And if Prince is good enough to destroy Manu on offense AND shut him down on defense, then he should be a Top 15 player in this league

Well Prince is a highly underrated player. He leads the Pistons in +/- this season -- in both the regular season and in the playoffs. In fact, last time I checked he was second to Manu in +/- in the playoffs. Going by those stats, he's the engine of that team.


If Prince is that much of a threat, why not put Bowen on him? If Wade can guard Prince in the post, I think Bowen can at least contain Tayshaun Prince.

I have no problems with Manu guarding Rip at all.

Bowen is built to guard Rip. That is one huge thing the Spurs have going for them. Rip is in constant motion and going around picks ... but Bowen should be able to stay with him.

If you put Manu on Rip, Manu would have to be put on IVs at halftime.


Duncan is an MVP calibur player and should be able to dominate when it matters. If he gets shut down by the Wallace's then how good is he really?

I'm not sure what that means. There are great defenders in the league. Wallace isn't going to "shut down" Duncan, but he'll make life hard for him.

[timvp]

Timvp i think you made an excellent thread. Anytime the spurs face a defense which is even remotely stingy or physical the spurs offense is absolutely non existent. rasheed wallace is by far the best defender when it comes to guarding TD, no one can guard him as well as sheed, and tayshaun prince is gonna be a handful. we can keep rip down or chauncey down but i dont see us stopping both at the same time. also both wallaces should have no problem keeping parker out of the lane. and if parker isnt slicing through the lane, he's rendered pretty useless as his outside J is ugly! im really rooting for miami to pull it out against detroit tho it will probably be a 5 game series like u said. i think the chances of the spurs beating a showboating miami team (See: alonzo mourning) will be much easier than a rugged pistons team.

:tu

[TwoHandJam]

I agree with everything you say in your analysis timvp, the Pistons are most definitely the team to beat. However, I think the Spurs still have a good chance of winning it all should they get to the finals. Here are some of my thoughts in no particular order:

1) The Pistons' most clutch players are Billups and Rip. These are the guys they go to in the crunch. I'd put Bowen on Billups and Manu on Rip and take my chances with Tony on Prince funneling him to the help or letting him shoot from outside in the final minutes of a close game. I know it's a bad mismatch but Billups and Rip are far more dangerous.

2) The Pistons remind me a lot of the Spurs of '03 with their offensive droughts. We don't seem to suffer from them as badly as they do this year.

3) Detroit hasn't had the chance to play against us with Nazr yet this year. He changes the equation a bit.

4) The Billups-Parker matchup is definitely scary. If Tony struggles, things could get ugly.

5) We have HCA. That is huge.

6) With Det/Mia going at least 5 games (I agree Mia will definitely lose btw), Devin could be back for us by then and if we take care of business with PHO, we'll have more rest.

Ultimately, I think the Parker-Billups matchup could decide the series. If Tony ever needed to perform up to his abilities, it has to be in this series. Right now Billups/Arroyo > Parker/Beno until proven otherwise.

[ducks]

Why are so many people counting Shaq out already? A Shaq at 50% is better than 90% of the NBA's big men. He is THAT DOMINANT.


Mouring in the early rounds given the minutes is better then a 50% shaq

[timvp]

Timvp?

One thing I remember you saying last year was how Malone's absense paved the way for the Pistons to win it. I distinctly remember you saying the Pistons would not have won the series if Malone was 100%. Why the change of opinion all of a sudden? Why are the Pistons so dominant now? Why are they any better than the Spurs were last year? Or a healthy Lakers for that matter?

The Pistons are getting better and better. Plus, I look at the matchups and they look really tough for the Spurs. At each position, the Pistons can compete.

This isn't meant to be a doom and gloom thread. The Spurs were the favorites coming into the playoffs -- and rightfully so. They should still be favorites now.

But like I said last year that the Lakers were going to be a tough matchup and everyone told me I was crazy, I'm saying the same thing this year about the Pistons.

IF it happens and the Spurs do their job of taking down the Suns, it'll be an epic battle.

[E20]

Whoever makes it out of the East will be very tough to play. If we play Detroit, they are basically San Antonio; unselfish, play D and have people who are dangerous with the basketball. Miami, if we play them will be tough aswell--you got Wade and if you make a mistake he'll punish you either scoring or finding an open shooter/big and we're gonna have to deal with Shaq--so Rasho,Horry, and Nazr are gonna have they're hands full aswell.

[3rdCoast]

Mouring in the early rounds given the minutes is better then a 50% shaq

Great. Same team = Great for Miami

[myhc]

I agree with everything you say in your analysis timvp, the Pistons are most definitely the team to beat. However, I think the Spurs still have a good chance of winning it all should they get to the finals. Here are some of my thoughts in no particular order:

1) The Pistons' most clutch players are Billups and Rip. These are the guys they go to in the crunch. I'd put Bowen on Billups and Manu on Rip and take my chances with Tony on Prince funneling him to the help or letting him shoot from outside in the final minutes of a close game. I know it's a bad mismatch but Billups and Rip are far more dangerous.


I don't agree with those defensive matchups. No way would I have Manu chasing Rip all over the court, having Rip rest on defense guarding Bowen, and have Manu drained in addition to having to face Prince. You take away their biggest offensive threat with Bowen, put Manu on Prince and take your chances with Tony on Chauncey.

[Nikos]

Timvp's Quotes

Yes he has. And he's been able to shoot over him.

When he hasn't shot over him he was busy bobbling the ball or committing offensive fouls on Wade. And that has happened about 3-4 times easy. Prince is definetely NOT dominating that matchup at all.


Huh?

He has one of the best mid-range games in the league. He can hit from a lot of places on the court.

Sure he can hit from a lot of places. But if you body him up like Wade did, you an draw some charges on him. He isn't extremely proficient at taking a bump and fading on his man and scoring. He has to have fairly deep position to be most efficient. I don't see why Prince will be any better against the Spurs D, than the Heat's.




Well Prince is a highly underrated player. He leads the Pistons in +/- in both this season -- in both the regular season and in the playoffs. In fact, last time I checked he was second to Manu in +/- in the playoffs. Going by those stats, he's the engine of that team.

I agree. He is underrated. The engine of the team? I don't really even know what that means. The Wallace's have just as much impact on D if not more. But Prince does have a huge impact on stopping his man, and still remaining a threat on offense. Not a HUGE threat, but a very good 2 way player.




Bowen is built to guard Rip. That is one huge thing the Spurs have going for them. Rip is in constant motion and going around picks ... but Bowen should be able to stay with him.

If you put Manu on Rip, Manu would have to be put on IVs at halftime.

I remember Manu guarding Rip in the last game and Rip didn't even get off a clean look. I remember Manu making him even bobble the ball a couple times. I think he even blocked his shot once. Manu can guard Rip if he was told to. Rip hasn't exactly been dominating these playoffs, he is not going to score 40 on you if you don't have Bowen on him. If he does he will need a ton of shots to do so.




I'm not sure what that means. There are great defenders in the league. Wallace isn't going to "shut down" Duncan, but he'll make life hard for him.

What it means is that if Duncan can't rise above the Wallace's defense and do what he has to do to lead the team to victory, then he isn't the dominating force that he is made to be.

[timvp]

1) The Pistons' most clutch players are Billups and Rip. These are the guys they go to in the crunch. I'd put Bowen on Billups and Manu on Rip and take my chances with Tony on Prince funneling him to the help or letting him shoot from outside in the final minutes of a close game. I know it's a bad mismatch but Billups and Rip are far more dangerous.

No offense, but that's suicide. Billups is too quick for Bowen. Manu wouldn't last long chasing Rip and Prince would torture Parker.

No way the Spurs could ever align like that.


2) The Pistons remind me a lot of the Spurs of '03 with their offensive droughts. We don't seem to suffer from them as badly as they do this year.

Good point but the '03 Spurs were champions:)


3) Detroit hasn't had the chance to play against us with Nazr yet this year. He chances the equation a bit.

The Pistons played against Nazr as a Spur.

But point taken.


4) The Billups-Parker matchup is definitely scary. If Tony struggles, things could get ugly.

True.


5) We have HCA. That is huge.

Pistons can win on the road just as easy as they win at home. I wouldn't call it that much of an advantage.


6) With Det/Mia going at least 5 games (I agree Mia will definitely lose btw), Devin could be back for us by then and if we take care of business with PHO, we'll have more rest.

Good point.


Ultimately, I think the Parker-Billups matchup could decide the series. If Tony ever needed to perform up to his abilities, it has to be in this series. Right now Billups/Arroyo > Parker/Beno until proven otherwise.

True.

[TwoHandJam]

I don't agree with those defensive matchups. No way would I have Manu chasing Rip all over the court, having Rip rest on defense guarding Bowen, and have Manu drained in addition to having to face Prince. You take away their biggest offensive threat with Bowen, put Manu on Prince and take your chances with Tony on Chauncey.You didn't read what I said. I said I'd go with those assignments in the final minutes of a close game.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

this hopeful spurs-pistons finals will not be about the defense but more about the OFFENSE. both teams will play superb D, we are talking about the 2 most consistent teams in the league. im also afraid that if we get by PHX, spurs will be not be used to going into the lane and getting roughed up again after the open lane galore phoenix has been giving us all series so far. so i think its gonna come down to who will be more productive offensively b/c our defenses should neutralize each other.

[PM5K]

Congrats on coming back with reasons to back up your view point. Much better than PMS above.

Though they aren't noted to be a great three-point shooting team, they did well tonight. At one point the had eight straight threes, IIRC.

That shit didn't deserve a logical response.

[myhc]

You didn't read what I said. I said I'd go with those assignments in the final minutes of a close game.

My bad. But even in a close match, as Timvp said, I don't agree with those matchups. Billups would blow by Bruce and Prince can just take it right into the paint and shoot over Tony.

[TwoHandJam]

No offense, but that's suicide. Billups is too quick for Bowen. Manu wouldn't last long chasing Rip and Prince would torture Parker.

No way the Spurs could ever align like that.Again, I think we could only do this for limited possessions at the end of a close game. I don't think Bowen is too slow for Billups. If he can guard Marion and Allen, why would he be too slow for Billups? Billups has a great first step but he isn't unguardable by Bruce.

I guess my subconscious is just telling me that Parker won't be able to hang with Billups in the crunch. Billups is bigger and stronger and is a tough matchup for TP. I could also see the unwanted effect of Tony losing confidence when Billups nails clutch shots over him. He more than any other Piston is the assassin for that team. I really feel Bowen will be guarding him when it matters.




Good point but the '03 Spurs were champions:)DET doesn't have Kerr. :)


Pistons can win on the road just as easy as they win at home. I wouldn't call it that much of an advantage. I see the series going to a seventh game easily, that's why I feel the advantage is there. I agree that DET is tough on the road though.

[DDS4]

1) Billups has the bulk, but Tony has the speed. I like to think Tony will have no problem getting into the lane and break down Detroit's defense. Billups can try to post up, but I don't think the Pistons run their offense that way.

2) Agreed. Prince has the wingspan, but Manu is crafty in piling up fouls on the opposing defender.

3) I really don't see the Pistons doubling Timmy that much. Brown doesn't like to double team unless he really has to. If they do, Nazr should be able to rack up points and offensive rebounds or Horry should be free.

4) Rip isn't 100% so I don't see him guarding Manu too much. Most of his energy will be spent on the Piston offense.

5) Pistons are good but we're the best passing team around the perimeter and with kick-outs.

6) Manu should be able to guard Prince on post-ups. He'll have 2 seven footers for help.

7) Disagree wholeheartedly. If you were the Pop, wouldn't you want to beat your teacher? Pop has 2 rings to Larry Brown's one. Pop will have a level head just like he's instilled into his team.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

another thing i wanna add is how will the spurs deal with a game 7 situation? yes they have experience but the only elimination game MOST of these guys have played in was a game 5 against seattle a couple of years ago. i know these guys are poised but with a game 7 and an anything can happen scenario, it'd be interesting to see how SA responds. because as most of you know, anytime SA faces an elimination game they havent faired too well.

[timvp]

When he hasn't shot over him he was busy bobbling the ball or committing offensive fouls on Wade. And that has happened about 3-4 times easy. Prince is definetely NOT dominating that matchup at all.

1) Prince can't dominate that matchup. Wade is Miami's first option ... not to mention one of the best players in the league. I never said Prince > Wade. Prince, offensively, is the Pistons fourth option most of the team.

2) Prince has two turnovers in the series.


Sure he can hit from a lot of places. But if you body him up like Wade did, you an draw some charges on him. He isn't extremely proficient at taking a bump and fading on his man and scoring. He has to have fairly deep position to be most efficient. I don't see why Prince will be any better against the Spurs D, than the Heat's.

Wade drew one charge on him in two games. And that was a horrible call. It was a blatant flop by Wade.

Prince can score from all over. That's one of the strengths to his game.



I agree. He is underrated. The engine of the team? I don't really even know what that means. The Wallace's have just as much impact on D if not more. But Prince does have a huge impact on stopping his man, and still remaining a threat on offense. Not a HUGE threat, but a very good 2 way player.

Being the team's best +/- in both the regular season and the playoffs means that he's a huge part of that team. I never said he was a huge offensive threat.



I remember Manu guarding Rip in the last game and Rip didn't even get off a clean look. I remember Manu making him even bobble the ball a couple times. I think he even blocked his shot once.

You mean the game where Manu played 16 minutes and had no blocks?


Manu can guard Rip if he was told to.

Yeah he can, but that's not what you want. Manu would average like 16 minutes per game for the series.


What it means is that if Duncan can't rise above the Wallace's defense and do what he has to do to lead the team to victory, then he isn't the dominating force that he is made to be.

So I can't say that the Wallaces can guard him because that means Duncan isn't as good as he is made to be? Doesn't make sense to me.

[timvp]

That shit didn't deserve a logical response.

Not like you had one anyways.

[Kori Ellis]

What it means is that if Duncan can't rise above the Wallace's defense and do what he has to do to lead the team to victory, then he isn't the dominating force that he is made to be.

Then I guess by your logic, Duncan sucks. Because Rasheed Wallace (for the most part) has owned him for a long, long time.

[Nikos]

Then I guess by your logic, Duncan sucks. Because Rasheed Wallace (for the most part) has owned him for a long, long time.

Yes, if in a 7 game series he couldn't outplay Rasheed by a large margin, then yes he is overrated.

[PM5K]

Not like you had one anyways.

That's true as well....

[timvp]

Yes, if in a 7 game series he couldn't outplay Rasheed by a large margin, then yes he is overrated.

By who? Wallace has always played Duncan well. You'd think that'd be calculated into his "rating" by now.

[Ginobilly]

And we still have Big Dogg Robinson if we start struggling on offense. He's another player Timmy and Manu could kick it out to and score, even with a hand in his face. Bowen is another player that is going to have to step up and hit his corner 3's cause the Pistons will not guard him. Rip is going to be cheating off bruce and pestering Duncan with Rasheed. Will Bowen make them pay???

Lets first get by the suns first and then we could start talking about it more.

[samikeyp]

The Spurs, while playing well, haven't won jack yet. They get two more then I will be ready to talk Miami or Detroit.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

another thing i wanna add is how will the spurs deal with a game 7 situation? yes they have experience but the only elimination game MOST of these guys have played in was a game 5 against seattle a couple of years ago. i know these guys are poised but with a game 7 and an anything can happen scenario, it'd be interesting to see how SA responds. because as most of you know, anytime SA faces an elimination game they havent faired too well.

anyone?

[samikeyp]

they are 2-0 so far this year. Lets hope that keeps up.

[Nikos]

1) Prince can't dominate that matchup. Wade is Miami's first option ... not to mention one of the best players in the league. I never said Prince > Wade. Prince, offensively, is the Pistons fourth option most of the team.

All I am saying is Prince has not even really caused many problems with his postups on Wade. I know for a fact on 3-4 plays Prince either turned it over or ended up up bobbling the ball without even getting off a good shot. The point is Prince has deliberately taken Wade in the post about 6-7 times, and has deliverd maybe once or twice. Not very effiecient for such a dominant post player as you seem to be alluding to.


2) Prince has two turnovers in the series.


And both were on post ups. And there was a good 4-5 plays where he wasn't even close on the play. He has missed more 1 on 1 post ups on Wade then made. Thats not dominance IMO.



Wade drew one charge on him in two games. And that was a horrible call. It was a blatant flop by Wade.

Yes, and more often than not Prince has not delivered against Wade in 1 on 1 situations.


Prince can score from all over. That's one of the strengths to his game.

Sure. But he isn't a dominant scorer all in all. He isn't a great 3pt shooter, and isn't really a dominant post player. He can have some solid games where he hits from all over the place, but I don't see him as being unstoppable against the Spurs. If he is, it won't be solely cause of not having a long 3 guarding him, but also some weak team defense.





Being the team's best +/- in both the regular season and the playoffs means that he's a huge part of that team. I never said he was a huge offensive threat.


You make it sound like he will dominate any Spur and be a huge matchup problem. I don't see it that way.



You mean the game where Manu played 16 minutes and had no blocks?

No actually it may have been Game 1. But I know for a fact there was one play where Manu forced Rip to lay the ball on the side of the backboard, and it wasn't cause of the Spurs help defenders.




Yeah he can, but that's not what you want. Manu would average like 16 minutes per game for the series.

If Manu gets tired that easy than I don't know what to say? He must not be that great of an overall player if he gets tired guarding Rip 16 minutes, and yet other teams can put defenders on Rip and make him shoot 4-18 for a game. I'll take my chances on Manu guarding Rip if Prince were as dominant as you say.



So I can't say that the Wallaces can guard him because that means Duncan isn't as good as he is made to be? Doesn't make sense to me.

If Duncan didn't clearly outplay them, and play his type of championship ball, then yes, he isn't the best player in the world. Duncan should be able to get numbers even if the rest of the Spurs struggle IMO. All great players can find ways to at least be a dominating force even if the defender on them is elite. Duncan can't play like he did in Game 1 of the Denver series 3 or 4 times in the Detroit series. Otherwise he is simply not the best player in the game.

[Nikos]

By who? Wallace has always played Duncan well. You'd think that'd be calculated into his "rating" by now.

Played him well? Sure. But if he was playing near the level of Duncan or making him shoot 35% for a series, than I can't bring myself to say Duncan is the best in the game, even if his teamattes underacheived.

[slayermin]

The team that wins the backcourt battles will win the war.

To beat the Pistons, I think you have to breakdown their interior defense. That's not a small task but AI was able to do it in games 3 and most of game 4, when Philly played Detroit. And we have the bigger version of AI in Manu.

Also, I was reading on the Pistons board that they were a little worried about playing Phoenix. It seems that Nash gave them problems in their regular season matchups. Well, if TP can incorporat a little bit of Nash's game from his matchup in the Conference Finals, that would be another way to cause havoc in the lane. He's just as quick and elusive but he has to focus on playmaking because of all the help defense he will be attracting from the Pistons bigs.

As far as Billups and Hamilton, they are primarily perimeter players. I do not think they are very good at penetrating unless you go for one of their pumpfakes. They don't really beat guys off the dribble like TP and Manu. And Hamilton isn't really a three point threat. Billups will try to post up Parker but TP has post defense experience and he's stronger than he was even from a year ago.

Tayshaun Prince will be a tough matchup. But if he becomes a problem, I think Big Dog could post him up and defend him on the post. He's kind of light in the butt. It will be interesting to see how they try to exploit his size.

I like our chances against Detroit.

[Nikos]

I think both the Pistons and the Heat will give the Spurs huge match-up problems. A lot of Spurs fans seem to think that after the Suns, it's a cakewalk. I don't think so.

Plus you are right, the Suns series isn't over yet.

No it won't be a cakewalk if the Spurs and the Pistons met in the finals. But I don't exactly see the Pistons having any dominating matchups. Thats all. It would be a tight battle. But technically the Spurs are the more balanced team. But as we seen in the past Parker can dissapear at times, Manu gets too tired, Duncan loses focus at times, and the offense can go stale. This season the Spurs offense was a lot better than the Pistons, and even slightly better on D. But of course the Pistons matchup well position for position, and Billups is a big game player. Which is why I say if Parker just played him to a stand still, then they would beat the Pistons. If not it would be tough, but not impossible.

[itzsoweezee]

i think the pistons will have a harder time scoring against the spurs than the spurs will against the pistons. both of these defenses are great, but san antonio is a far superior team on the offensive end.

[SilverPlayer]

The one strength we need to remember against Detroit is kicking and passing the ball. Detroit doesn't hold a candle to the Spurs in that regard. That is the one advantage we have, and we have to play the passing game to perfection, otherwise it will be a long series. No one on this team is going to beat Detroit one on one. They have to play as the ultimate unselfish team, and if they do that it will be Spurs in 6.

[milkyway21]

i think the Pistons are overrated. Prince, too!

They won the title last year bec Malone was injured. If they were just playing against a healthy Duncan last yr(not the Lakers), I doubt if they could win the title.

come on. surely some of us knows Pops gave Brown some points on how to beat PhilJax's triangle offense, they constantly talked during the series....

If Shaq is just 100% healthy and gives his 100% energy on defense(halftime:5 rbds:huh), the Heat could sweep this team easily.

If Pistons are best team, they could have swept Philly, a team with no real center or the depleted Indiana team, no Artest, injured Jermaine O'Neal.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

timvp, what about switching BB onto Prince and have Manu guard Hamilton? Actually, now that I think about it, that would be too tiring for him and hurt his offence too much. But it might work in spurts.

Prince is the big X-factor in a possible series with the Pistons. And you're right that we don't have a defender to matchup well on Chauncy (TP too small, Barry too weak, Beno has disappeared). We may play a lot of zone!?

With our ability to run, we might be able to play an up tempo game against the Pistons and take them out of their comfort zone. How did they do against Washington this year? I just looked it up and they won 3 games but they were all scores in the low 100s, so it can be done. They were 1-1 against Phoenix, both high scoring games. Fascinating matchup.

I think either Pistons or Heat would give us a 6 or 7 game series if we beat the Suns (never over till it's over), although if Shaq is out that would be 5 games. This season is far from over (although I relly like the way we're shaping up!)

[atlfan25]

i'd be most worried about rasheed on tim, he's been givin him fits for years.

[myhc]

i think the Pistons are overrated. Prince, too!

They won the title last year bec Malone was injured. If they were just playing against a healthy Duncan last yr(not the Lakers), I doubt if they could win the title.

come on. surely some of us knows Pops gave Brown some points on how to beat PhilJax's triangle offense, they constantly talked during the series....

If Shaq is just 100% healthy and gives his 100% energy on defense(halftime:5 rbds:huh), the Heat could sweep this team easily.

If Pistons are best team, they could have swept Philly, a team with no real center or the depleted Indiana team, no Artest, injured Jermaine O'Neal.

oh come on, let's just go by who they played last year, not what if so and so played. even without malone, you'd still expect a team led by Shaq and Kobe to at least take a series past 5 games and they couldn't do it. 1 player would not have been the difference. give the pistons a little more credit than that. i guess it is true that if you don't have 1 certifiable superstar on your team and just a bunch of really good players, you won't get the respect you deserve.

tayshaun prince is not overrated. how can you call him overrated when he regularly shuts down the opposing team's best wing player? he is, IMO, as important, if not more so, as Ben Wallace in keying that great defense.

[Horry For 3!]

I'm not sure....Heat and Pistons are both tough but as long as the Spurs play their great defense and do good on offense like they have been then they can beat anyone.

[milkyway21]

prince is not overrated people...he is good and he is goodyeah...he is good but not as good a Kobe or KG ...there's no cause for alarm.

for me a player who logs in an almost 38min and ave just 14 pts a game is overrated. Look i didn't even hear this player make more than 35 pts in a game.

if there's a player i fear most in Detroit they're Billups, Rip or Rasheed all-around game.

definitely, not Prince.

Sorry, people.

[milkyway21]

tayshaun prince is not overrated. how can you call him overrated when he regularly shuts down the opposing team's best wing player

ok I might be wrong...let's check what he can do, shall we?

Spurs vs Detroit (SA)

Prince: 38 min; 10 pts. 1 blk, 3 fouls; 5 TOs

the opponents:
Manu : 34 min 18 pts.
TP : 39 min 20 pts.

...doesn't look like shutting down to me. it's a vice versa.

:rolleyes:rolleyes

[Spurminator]

Detroit scares me, because I can see them forcing bad games from Parker, Manu and Duncan all at the same time. They can completely shut down the lane and force us into jump shooting.

However, I think we present the same problems for them with our defense... so maybe they cancel each other out and it will come down to who has the better offense. Let's hope that's us.

[MadDog73]

How soon Spurs fans forget how the Pistons dominated the team that beat the Spurs last year.


I hate this analogy.

1. Karl Malone didn't play against the Pistons. Different series with him in there.

2. It's not like we were swept by the Lakers or anything. 0.4 seconds between us and a date with the Pistons.

That said, your first post was very good, and I agree: the Pistons will be our toughest challenge yet.

[2centsworth]

Hope we get the Pistons. Keep the Freakin Heat away. SHAQ, ALONZO, and WADE plus Miami's deadly 3 pt shooting should keep every spurs fan up at night.

[bigzak25]

that's good stuff guys...

shut down sheed and all will be well.
if he's on duncan, hopefully TD will tire him out...
and nazr just needs to be ready for the dish when Ben comes over to help out...

i worry about sheeds long range cuz if nazr is on him, those shots will be wide open...

i see a tossup, but as other's have said, i think detroits offensive droughts will be longer than the spurs....I see our Spurs outlasting detroit more than beating them. Homecourt plus manu gives me reason to be optomisitic. I expect horry to hit some big shots as well.

I'm not putting much faith in TP, unfortunately. If we can call it a draw with Billups at the end of each game, i'll be very happy. Prove me wrong TP. And I kind of expect Barry to revert to his shell of himself in the Finals.

But as others have said, and i'm not one to jinx our Spurs...STILL business to take care of with Phoenix. Shut em down boys. Oh, and i'm hoping the East series goes at LEAST six games...a tired opponent will be nice. :smokin

[td4mvp3]

i also went back to the two games in the regular season and saw the tp and billups were about even in everything in the first game, when both starting lineups best mirrored what they had last year. the second game, billups seemed to own parker but duncan was out and i'm sure that does something. at the same time, though, that second game saw manu score nearly as much as prince in half the time. i also don't understand how detroit would be the team to beat when timvp freely admits that SA would be favored by just about everyone. wouldn't that make SA the team to beat? i also disagree with the idea that detroit is the best defensive team in the league when the spurs have owned the points allowed category all year. certainly they've done jack squat to stop the suns, but nash is playing so much better than he did in the regular season and no one's ever stopped amare. given that a spurs team with nesterovich was up by 20 at one point in the first meeting against the pistons and a squad with no TD and very little manu still only lost by nine (not to mention a miami squad with an iffy shaq and bunch of what most folks considered scrubs aside from wade lost by only nine and then won by six), i'd say the series with detroit would be tough but by no means the nightmare it was made out to be.

[Sportcamper]

http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2005-05/17742608.jpg

[spvrs]

It's going to be a battle if Spurs meet the Pistons. I will say what I'm most worried about is RWallace, I saw that play where Tim sprained his ankle and RW slid his feet under there on purpose.

Plus after playing the Suns, who aren't physical and don't like playing defense it's going to be like night and day. Remember what happened to Seattle in Game 1, even the players where saying 'we aren't in sacramento anymore...'

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

The Pistons are looking a lot less invincible than a lot of people think. Last night's fourth quarter exemplified that. The Pistons go through stretches where they seem to be sleeping walking and then suddenly turn their game back on. I don't know if it's arrogance or lack of focus but I think if the Spurs keep looking like they have in crunch time vs. the Suns then the Pistons could be in a lot of trouble. Of course, if they don't knock that shit off then it may very well be Miami in the finals, not the Pistons.

I don't think they Pistons present the nightmare matchup problems that people think simply the Spurs play great team defense. They hardly ever make one of their players try to stop someone solely by themselves. Remember the huge mismatch Rashard Lewis was supposed to represent? It's going to be the same thing with Manu on Prince. Prince might try to post him up, but Manu is going to have back up. Bowen on Hamilton is going to be fun to watch, although I think I'd give Bruce the edge there. Hamilton can look like Ray Allen at times, but he's been rather cold during the Heat series, and at other key times as well. Billups is a tough cover, but I think Tony is up to the task. He's fast enough that he can stay up in Billups face and try to take away the jumpshot without worrying too hard about getting torched by Chauncey going to the basket. And even if he does there's always those shot blockers helping out. And I doubt that Billups will be asked to post up. The Pistons are so much better when he's out on the perimeter moving the ball around and such. Sheed vs. Duncan will be a great one to watch, simply because Sheed gives Duncan trouble, but it's been a long time since these two have seen each other in the playoffs. Tim has always been able to crank it up to 11 in the finals and I don't expect that to change should they face the Pistons. I think Brown is smart enough to know that doubling Duncan is a kiss of death because the Spurs perimeter has been knocking down threes all playoffs and Nazr has really figured out how to get to the rim in those situations as well. Frankly, I think the Pistons are much more dangerous when Rasheed is down on the blocks because he's a great offensive rebounder in those situations and has enough low post moves to choke a horse. If Tim can keep him on the perimeter rather than having to battle him down low it will be much easier on his body and better for the Spurs in general.

Meanwhile the Spurs are looking at an uphill battle on offense because this Pistons team (when they show up to play) was built for playoff defense. At every position they can outmuscle the Spurs, so barring the refs breaking out the whistles early and often, the Spurs are going to take a licking. But even with all the clotheslines that Parker and Manu took in Seattle they stayed aggressive, so I expect them to keep on ticking in the paint.

Benchwise this is really a push-Arroyo is certainly better than Beno or Barry at the point, but the Spurs have more shooters at their fingertips. The only bench shooter that I've seen out of Detroit so far is Hunter. McDyess and Campbell vs. Rasho and Horry may be an unexpectedly key matchup.

If it's Spurs-Pistons in the finals, I got to go with the Spurs in six, but none of those games are going to be easy to watch.

[Rummpd]

B.S. the Pistons are a tough and strong team but were a mid level offensive team while as David Dupree points out = Spurs top tier.

Also, it is questionable whether this team could have beaten the Spurs last year and this year a stronger Spurs team (if Duncan healthy) should get through them in 6 games or so. Having Nazr is a great piece against Detroit that kills on the offensive boards I might add.

[picnroll]

Lot of matchup problems for the SPurs in a Detroit - SA finals.

One big problem is Bowen - Prince. Prince is as good as Bowen defensively but brings a lot more to the table offnesively. Bowen is ideally suited to playing against a team with a primary perimeter scorer who when taken away disrupts the other teams entire offensive flow. Detroit doesn't have that player. Bowen can take a few points away from Prince or Hamilton but probably not enough to compensate for his limitations at the offensive end.

Can the Spurs find a better balance? Barry? Barry's having an impact in the free flowing, loose defense Suns series but hopw much success will he have in a tough Detorit - SA matchup. Not real confident there. Brown. He might help the O- D balance but unfortunately he hasn't shown he's past his injury. That leaves Big Dog. He hasn't been an impac so far in the playoffs. Could he possibly, hopefully be a key ingredient. If Big Dog could play adequate D on Prince or even Horry on Prince and Robinson on Big Ben maybe, then that would force Prince to play Robinson since Hamilton couldn't and it would in turn force Hamilton to cover Manu. Just fishing for possibilities.

[SWC Bonfire]

They won the title last year bec Malone was injured. If they were just playing against a healthy Duncan last yr(not the Lakers), I doubt if they could win the title.

I agree with this wholeheartedly, and am glad to see someone thinks the same thing. The Spurs owned the Pistons last year (the matchups just worked in our favor), and don't tell me the regular season doesn't count. One of those games if I recall was for playoff position for both clubs at the end of the year, and the Pistons were hot at that point. If the Spurs get past the Lakers, they could have posed some serious problems for the Pistons. I don't think that the Pistons, great team that they are, would have won the series.

Maybe the Spurs get that chance this year. I wouldn't bet on the Pistons, though.

Our guys' offense in the face of defensive pressure>their guys' offense in the face of defensive pressure.

[GoSpurs21]

How soon Spurs fans forget how the Pistons dominated the team that beat the Spurs last year.This is not last years team. If the Spurs continue to click on offense and defense, they will run the pistons or heat out of the building while holding either to under 80.

[ambchang]

How soon Spurs fans forget how the Pistons dominated the team that beat the Spurs last year.

Can't really say that ... If team A beats team B, and team B beats team C, there is no guarantee that team A will be team C, this isn't math, and it's all about matchups.
But on the other hand, I agree with your matchup assessment, I do think Pistons match up very well with the Spurs for al the reasons you have listed. The bench is where the Spurs have a big advantage.
Watched the game last night, and the period where the Heat made that big run is when both Rasheed Wallace and Tayshaun Prince went to the bench. If the Spurs can wear down the Pistons starter, or get Rasheed, Prince or Billups in foul trouble, the Pistons will struggle mightily on the offensive end.
The Heat on the other hand, are also a tough matchup. Not because of Shaq, and all this talk about Shaq being hurt is just pure bull. He is not hurt, he is just done. He has not been dominant since 2001, and his game has declined considerably since then. Have you noticed all those 5 rebounds games he puts up this year? Anyways, Wade, Mourning and Eddie Jones are the 3 players that have the potential to hurt the Spurs. Wade for obvious reasons, Mourning because he can defend Duncan very well, and Jones because he can slash to the basket and shoot the 3. If Bowen is on Wade, that means Parker will be on Damon Jones, and Manu will be on Eddie Jones, and Manu, with all the energy he has to expend on the offensive end, will be tired in chasing Eddie around those screens ...

[zedman]

You have some interesting points, but ...



2) Prince will make life tough for Manu. Manu hasn't really faced a good defender in the playoffs. Prince is a top three perimeter defender. He's long and will be able to bother Manu's shots.


It takes practically an entire team to defend against Manu.



3) Rasheed Wallace and Ben Wallace are two of the better players in the league in regards to guarding Tim Duncan. Combined, they are no doubt the toughest matchup for TD. Rasheed is perhaps the best defender on Duncan, going back to his Portland days. Ben Wallace will provide great help side defense.

[QUOTE=timvp]
5) The Pistons are great at taking away three-point shooters. Thus, Horry and Barry will have limited impacts.


Impede Horry and Barry enough to really affect the outcome? Better not leave Parker, Manu, Nazr or Tim to do it. Also, from what I can tell Horry has a higher basketball IQ than than anyone on the Pistons. He'll be able to sting them good.



6) Offensively, the Pistons have some mismatches. Bowen will no doubt be on Hamilton, leaving Manu on Prince. That matchup is a nightmare for the Spurs.


The Spurs are smarter on offense. I see too many bad offensive decisions made by detriot; especially late in close games.



7) Pop's man-love for Larry Brown might lead him to not take the right approach to the series. He might be too worried about offended his best friend instead of just concentrating on beating him.


Plain sillyness if you ask me.



All in all, Spurs fans need to settle down...


Yes, please, tell me how to live.

[Marcus Bryant]

I concur with timvp and will add that Miami concerns me as well. Both teams feature very good offensive guards coupled with very physical frontlines. Detroit is definitely the better defensive unit, though Miami isn't too bad themselves. The Spurs are vulnerable to teams with such a combo of backcourt offense and muscle up front. Detroit can execute Seattle's gameplan used in the last series to perfection.

It's one thing to produce a ton of offense when you're facing Phoenix and another when you are facing a top defensive unit and one with a ton of experience.

I don't know why some Spurs fans seem so surprised by this view. The Lakers took four straight from them last season in the 2nd round doing the same basic thing...play physical up front, clog the lane, brush off the Slovenian, rotate the ball out to the shooters, and run screen rolls for a guard and take a bunch of pull up Js off penetration.

Now's not the time to get overconfident Spurs fans. As easy as the WCF seems so far, should the Spurs indeed move on to the next level some of you are going to be in for a rude awakening.

This concludes my last ever post on the internets under any name.

[Jimcs50]

Spurs will beat either Maimi or Detroit.
they are better offensively and just as good defensively.

I would put Bruce on Rip, he can run all over the court with him without getting tired.

Put TD on Sheed, he can go out to guard him on the perimeter like he did against Q. Or you can put Nazr on him, because Sheed really does not drive.

Put Nazr on Ben Wallace, he can stay in the paint and help out on anyone penetrating while TD is away from the basket. Or TD can guard him as well, either way is fine.

Put Manu on Prince.

Put TP on Billups.

This defense would pretty much shut down Detroit's offense and Detroit would have problems getting to 90 pts.

[picnroll]

For statistic nuts PER
2 - Duncan - 27.64
14 – Ginobili – 22.80
30 – Billups – 19.45
39 – Parker – 18.40
43 – Ben Wallace – 17.82
48 – McDyess - 17.56
64 – Mohammed – 16.81
68 - Rasheed Wallace – 16.72
69 – Prince – 16.54
72 – Hamilton – 16.34
99 – Horry – 15.20
116 – Udrih – 14.60
121 – Barry – 14.32
151 – Nesterovic – 12.56
157 – Arroyo – 11.69
187 – Hunter – 9.80
188 – Bowen – 9.76

http://www.knickerblogger.net/stats/jh_ALL_PER.htm

[Nikos]

For statistic nuts PER
2 - Duncan - 27.64
14 – Ginobili – 22.80
30 – Billups – 19.45
39 – Parker – 18.40
43 – Ben Wallace – 17.82
48 – McDyess - 17.56
64 – Mohammed – 16.81
68 - Rasheed Wallace – 16.72
69 – Prince – 16.54
72 – Hamilton – 16.34
99 – Horry – 15.20
116 – Udrih – 14.60
121 – Barry – 14.32
151 – Nesterovic – 12.56
157 – Arroyo – 11.69
187 – Hunter – 9.80
188 – Bowen – 9.76

http://www.knickerblogger.net/stats/jh_ALL_PER.htm

Check the playoff ones as well. There is a playoff PER page for every team.

[SpursChampsIII]

Whoever is playing the best basketball is the team to beat...that would be the Spurs. Yes, it's true the Spurs have not made it past Phoenix yet, but you seem to have given the Detroit-Miami series to the Pistons, since you say they are right around the corner...Pistons might not be around the corner when we get there. The Spurs will not be intimidated by Detroit just because they are defending champs...the Spurs have been there TOO.

Recognize That

[T Park]

The logical question then to ask TIMVP I would think.


How would YOU beat the Pistons???


I honestly havent watched them, but the ay it sounds they practically dont have a chance.

[SpursChampsIII]

oh come on, let's just go by who they played last year, not what if so and so played. even without malone, you'd still expect a team led by Shaq and Kobe to at least take a series past 5 games and they couldn't do it. 1 player would not have been the difference. give the pistons a little more credit than that. i guess it is true that if you don't have 1 certifiable superstar on your team and just a bunch of really good players, you won't get the respect you deserve.

tayshaun prince is not overrated. how can you call him overrated when he regularly shuts down the opposing team's best wing player? he is, IMO, as important, if not more so, as Ben Wallace in keying that great defense.

Am I mistaken, or did Wade drop 40 on Prince last night? Detroit was not a better team than a "healthy" Lakers team last year...Malone absolutely would have made a difference. However, I'm glad it worked out the other way and the Lakers fell on their face.

[1Parker1]

"This defense would pretty much shut down Detroit's offense and Detroit would have problems getting to 90 pts."

LOL. Jim, I think that's the whole problem in the first place why people are worried about Detroit. It works both ways. Detroit's defense has just as good of a chance to shut down SPurs offense, and SPurs would have problems getting to 90 pts.

[Jimcs50]

The logical question then to ask TIMVP I would think.


How would YOU beat the Pistons???


I honestly havent watched them, but the ay it sounds they practically dont have a chance.


TPark, the Spurs know how to beat the Pistons. We beat them this season already and lost a close game to them in Detroit when TD played all of 1 min in the game and Manu played only 16 mins.

timvp is just spouting off what the media has been telling him...he is not thinking clearly.

[Jimcs50]

"This defense would pretty much shut down Detroit's offense and Detroit would have problems getting to 90 pts."

LOL. Jim, I think that's the whole problem in the first place why people are worried about Detroit. It works both ways. Detroit's defense has just as good of a chance to shut down SPurs offense, and SPurs would have problems getting to 90 pts.


Parker, the Spurs offense is so much better than Detroits, it is not even funny.

The Spurs scored over 100 against them w/o TD in the game already this year.

[T Park]

TPark, the Spurs know how to beat the Pistons. We beat them this season already and lost a close game to them in Detroit when TD played all of 1 min in the game and Manu played only 16 mins.


How do you do it then???

[Jimcs50]

How do you do it then???

They play the way they have been playing.

They play their motion offense, they pass the ball around, inside out, around the perimeter and take the open shots.

They set picks, and drive to the hoop strongly like they did against Denver and Seattle, even though they will get hit, but they play their game.

Defensively, they chase Rip all over the court with Bruce, then Manu, they stay on Sheed when he is outside and they box out on the defensive boards.

[SpursChampsIII]

I concur with timvp and will add that Miami concerns me as well. Both teams feature very good offensive guards coupled with very physical frontlines. Detroit is definitely the better defensive unit, though Miami isn't too bad themselves. The Spurs are vulnerable to teams with such a combo of backcourt offense and muscle up front. Detroit can execute Seattle's gameplan used in the last series to perfection.

It's one thing to produce a ton of offense when you're facing Phoenix and another when you are facing a top defensive unit and one with a ton of experience.

I don't know why some Spurs fans seem so surprised by this view. The Lakers took four straight from them last season in the 2nd round doing the same basic thing...play physical up front, clog the lane, brush off the Slovenian, rotate the ball out to the shooters, and run screen rolls for a guard and take a bunch of pull up Js off penetration.

Now's not the time to get overconfident Spurs fans. As easy as the WCF seems so far, should the Spurs indeed move on to the next level some of you are going to be in for a rude awakening.

This concludes my last ever post on the internets under any name.

Bye

[Jimcs50]

Marcus has retired more often than George Foreman.

[1Parker1]

Parker, the Spurs offense is so much better than Detroits, it is not even funny.

The Spurs scored over 100 against them w/o TD in the game already this year.

Jim, I'm not saying Spurs offense is worse/better then Detroits. As you know, offense can only get you so far---until it meets defense! My point being that Detroit is just as good defensively, if not better, than the Spurs. Spurs are going to have a hard time scoring 100+ against Pistons in the Finals, and vice versa. It's easy to look at these past two games and marvel at the Spurs offense putting up 124 points and 112 points or however----Suns don't play defense!

As Timvp mentioned, we have matchup problems.

1) Parker vs. Billups, Tony is doing a pretty good job in this series against the league MVP with Nash, I don't know how well he will do against the Finals MVP--a guy who actually plays defense. Also, he's not going to get many layups with Rasheed and Ben in the middle. I'm not saying Tony won't have a few good games in there, but Spurs go as Tony goes (We're something like 23-3 when he scores 20+ points). It's a tough matchup. Please Arroyo--much quicker and stronger then Beno, another tough matchup.

2) Manu/Tayshaun: Any hope of us winning that series would rest on Manu. Tayshaun may be a great defender, etc, but if I've learned anything about Manu this year, it's that he will fight and give his 110% in every single game. I don't care who they throw at him, he'll find a way to get it done.

3) Tim/Rasheed: Actually, now that I think about it, we'll probably win at least one game in which Rasheed gets thrown out after 2 techs :) This matchup depends on how Tim's ankles hold up, Tim is clearly the better player, but Rasheed's a good defender and can put up 20+ on any given night also.

4) Bruce/Hamilton: Cancel each other out. That simple. I have full faith that Bruce can control Hamilton, he may have a game or two where he gets hot, but other then that...It would help if Bruce made some corner 3's at the other end however.

5) Nazr/Ben: I don't expect Ben to score 21 pts against us :) Actually, I think Rasho will be a big help in this series with his defense.

You know, now that I think about, Pistons don't look that scary. It's a coin toss, could go either way, IMO. Hopefully it goes our way.

[Jimcs50]

Parker, Spurs have better D. They gave up less points this year and they play 2/3 of their games against the West who play a lot better offense than the shitty East.

[MadDog73]

It's going to be a battle if Spurs meet the Pistons. I will say what I'm most worried about is RWallace, I saw that play where Tim sprained his ankle and RW slid his feet under there on purpose.

Plus after playing the Suns, who aren't physical and don't like playing defense it's going to be like night and day. Remember what happened to Seattle in Game 1, even the players where saying 'we aren't in sacramento anymore...'

I don't buy this. It's not like they haven't played any physical series before... Hell, even the Sonics took us to six after making that comment!

I honestly don't know who would win a Spurs / Pistons matchup. With only 2 games in the regular season, it's impossible to predict.

[tlongII]

The Pistons have the best starting 5 in basketball and their bench is underrated. There is no question they have the necessary tools to beat the Spurs in a playoff series.

[ShoogarBear]

Damn, timvp, I was about to post something along these exact same lines after Detroit-Miami game #1, but I didn't want to have to deal with the storm I knew would follow.

The three toughest matchups are Billups, Prince, and Rasheed.

A Detroit-SA final would be where we would miss Devin the most. In crunch time you have to stop Billups, and I don't know if TP can physically do that. Bruce would be a good matchup, but I don't want TP on either Hamilton or Prince, either. It would be nice to have Brown to throw in the mix.

Prince is so versatile and will be the first guy we face who can give Manu a tough time at both ends, and he could conceivably be used to harass any of TP, GRob, or Barry on the defensive end, too.

Rasheed, as we all know, is one guy who can capably guard a healthy TD for stretches without help from double-teams, leaving Ben Wallace to float in the paint.

[boutons]

The Spurs offense has struggled all season, often lost, against every team that plays physical and pretends to play defense, esp interior defense.

(see Spurs loss @MIA,
see Spurs butt-ugly narrow W vs Clips @SBC,
see Spurs loss @MEM,
see Spurs offense collapse when ambused by Raptors offense in L @TOR,
see 4 losses in 04 WC semis vs Lakers).

The Spurs offense vs no-defense/no-stop Suns looks like the 21st Century ShowTime Team.

I guarantee the Spurs offense will not look ShowTime against Heat with Shaq and Zo in the paint, and their front court keeping ours from driving (as they did @MIA loss), and esp no ShowTime against Pistons.

Against physical/defensive/paint-denying teams, the Spurs have shot as badly as the Pistons did last night, around or under 40%.

[Jimcs50]

The Spurs offense has struggled all season, often lost, against every team that plays physical and pretends to play defense, esp interior defense.

(see Spurs loss @MIA,
see Spurs butt-ugly narrow W vs Clips @SBC,
see Spurs loss @MEM,
see Spurs offense collapse when ambused by Raptors offense in L @TOR,
see 4 losses in 04 WC semis vs Lakers).

The Spurs offense vs no-defense/no-stop Suns looks like the 21st Century ShowTime Team.

I guarantee the Spurs offense will not look ShowTime against Heat with Shaq and Zo in the paint, and their front court keeping ours from driving (as they did @MIA loss), and esp no ShowTime against Pistons.

Against physical/defensive/paint-denying teams, the Spurs have shot as badly as the Pistons did last night, around or under 40%.


The Spurs were not healthy against Denver.

They are at full strength now.

I expect SA to sweep Detroit or Miami.

[tlongII]

The Spurs were not healthy against Denver.

They are at full strength now.

I expect SA to sweep Detroit or Miami.


I expect that you will be completely wrong.

[Jimcs50]

I expect that you will be completely wrong.


never!!!!

[ambchang]

I guarantee the Spurs offense will not look ShowTime against Heat with Shaq and Zo in the paint, and their front court keeping ours from driving (as they did @MIA loss), and esp no ShowTime against Pistons.

Against physical/defensive/paint-denying teams, the Spurs have shot as badly as the Pistons did last night, around or under 40%.

Actually, vs. Miami, Shaq and Zo on the floor at the same time will help the Spurs a LOT, Parker and Manu will run them to the ground.
Besides, Shaq's defense isn't all that great, Manu and Tim can pick and roll him all day.

[PiStOnS'D']

U guys are fuckin gay.The pistons will fuckin rape the mother fuckn spurs. u guys are jsut gay ass cunt slicken front runners

[boutons]

"Parker and Manu will run them to the ground."

Except that, as Phil did last May, Stan had his guards sag into the key to block our guards from getting into the paint in the loss @MIA. Spurs got badly outscored in the paint (only 16 pts from Shaq out of 48 Heat points in the paint), and lost.

[PiStOnS'D']

shut the fuck up u fuckin losers

[PiStOnS'D']

do u guys no a guy with a user naem of e20. i no that bitch he really likes the heat he jsut tries to act cool around u guys and be a gay ass front runner

[bigzak25]

the lakers suck man...talk about a frontrunner...you a pissedon fan now?

[PM5K]

U guys are fuckin gay.The pistons will fuckin rape the mother fuckn spurs. u guys are jsut gay ass cunt slicken front runners

You just can't argue with that analysis :bang

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Pistons'D', are you the same clown that hacked E20's username yesterday? The lack of puncuation and persistent potty mouth seems about right. If you're so damn certain of your point why not actually present your case? Jackass.

[TNT21]

How soon Spurs fans forget how the Pistons dominated the team that beat the Spurs last year.

Yeah, they were taking on 3 HOF'rs. Karl Malone is the one guy that killed us last year, he was what made that Laker team go and he was injured when they played against the Pistons. I guarantee that if KM was not injured in the finals, the Lakers would have won that series. It just sucked for us because he was healthy when we played them.

Anyway, the Pistons lack of bench will be their downfall!

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Anyway, the Pistons lack of bench will be their downfall!

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Dammit, there was supposed to be more than that! I wanted to add that Darco is there. Never underestimate the power of the Human Victory Cigar!

[kskonn]

I think that both teams present match up problems for each other, the key will be which coach and players exploit those mis matches.

For example:

Billups is stronger but parker can run circles around him, if we let manu urun the offense and have tony move without the ball that could really ware down Billups.

Mohamed and wallace should be a fun matchup to watch. Horry can bring either wallace out of the paint and I don't think that either wallace can defend Duncan one-on-one for a long period of time, they will eventually break down.

Bowen and Rip--- Bowen just has to man up. he also has to make him defend.

Manu and Prince-- personally this is the match up I most look forward to. they are both very good slefless players. I think the help defense will be key on both of these players for both teams.


I srongly feel that with these teams being matched so well it will come down to who executes the best. Neither team will be able to afford careless play. With that being said I feel the spurs hunger to get back to being the champion is stronger than detroits hunger to repeat. Spurs in 6.

[101A]

Detroit's defenense looks good when it tightens up; but watching the Indiana, and now Miami series, it seems to have lapses at least as often, if not more often than the Spur's.

It is Detroit's offense that is overrated, IMO. It reminds me of the the Spurs from several years back, hitting LONG stretches w/o being able to put it in the hole; stagnant, forced shots, etc. When it's working it looks pretty tight; but the Spurs will SERIOUSLY be able to slow that Detroit team down.

Arguably, the two best players in a Detroit/SA series both wear silver and black AND the Spurs have a deeper bench - and better overall shooting - with a similar defense.

Spurs put up a better record, in a tougher conference, and have looked at least as good in the playoffs. Detroit is tough, no doubt. But the Spurs are a better version.

[baseline bum]

Rasheed Wallace used to be the best Duncan defender in the league when he was on Portland. So much so that David was option #1 in that series in 99, because Tim could do nothing against Sheed. This matchup scares me, and it's why I've been saying all year that the only team that can take out a healthy Spurs team in 7 is Detroit. With the way Manu's playing I still like the Spurs chances, but Detroit is a physical team inside like Seattle, with solid defense on the perimeter too, unlike the Sonics.

[Louae]

I know that the Pistons just lost and I know that the Spurs just stormed through Phoenix, but the Pistons are still the team to beat. They are the league's best defensive team. They have some of the best clutch players. The are big, strong and hungry to repeat.

If the Spurs can get past the Suns and face Detroit, I'm worried that the Pistons are primed to take down this team. For several reasons, they're built to beat the Spurs.

You have every right to worry. The Pistons are more athletic and much more healthy than us. The Pistons are a very formidible team and I've been thinking about how difficult a time the Spurs will have with the Pistons.


1) Billups is exactly the type of point guard that hurts Parker. Parker can overcome most point guards, with the only exceptions being the strong ones. That's why Stephon Marbury always gives him trouble. That's why Billups will be tough.

I'm not too worried about Billups torching Parker throughout the game, Billups isn't their first option on offense. The Pistons would be giving up better scoring options in Prince's post game and Hamilton's mid-range game to really exploit this matchup offensively. Usually, they've been going with Prince, Hamilton and R.Wallace before they every get to Billups. Although, he can pose a problem for the Spurs in hitting key baskets down the stretch b/c he can outmuscle Parker when he gets into the paint. On offense, Parker needs to use his quickness to get into the paint and score or dish. He definately needs to push the tempo when he can and probe for easy buckets in transition. If he can do that, I think we can definately win this matchup. It really depends on Parker's aggressiveness.


2) Prince will make life tough for Manu. Manu hasn't really faced a good defender in the playoffs. Prince is a top three perimeter defender. He's long and will be able to bother Manu's shots.

This matchup has me really worried. I really believe Manu's best shot at scoring on Prince is penetrating off Tony's penetration, moving without the ball, and finding ways to create contact with Prince as he attacks the basket on Pick-N-Rolls or penetration and get Prince into foul trouble. Fortunately, that's what Manu usually does. But really, Manu's a winner and the man always finds a way to make an impact, so I'm not too worried about Manu getting off. HE WILL. Call it blind faith b/c that's what it is. I've doubted Manu so many times in the past, but the man is all heart with just enough talent to take him over the top. I say we win this matchup. Prince going against Bowen has me worried, though. Bowen isn't as strong a defender in the post and that's where Prince is going when he faces him.


3) Rasheed Wallace and Ben Wallace are two of the better players in the league in regards to guarding Tim Duncan. Combined, they are no doubt the toughest matchup for TD. Rasheed is perhaps the best defender on Duncan, going back to his Portland days. Ben Wallace will provide great help side defense.

You know, this matchup wouldn't worry me as much if TD was healthy. But Duncan is gonna have problems with the Wallaces b/c he has no lift. Nazr is gonna have to really come up big CLEANING UP THE JUNK, b/c Ben Wallace is gonna leave him to help R. Wallace and his opportunities TO CLEAN UP will be there.


4) Hamilton will be able to rest by guarding Bowen. Or if Prince is out of the game, he's another guy who you can throw at Manu.

That's a great point. And since Manu will likely be guarding Hamilton, I'm worried that he might tire Manu out going through so many screens and chasing him all over the court.


5) The Pistons are great at taking away three-point shooters. Thus, Horry and Barry will have limited impacts.

Totally agree. Although, I really think Horry is gonna have opportunities to knock some shots down in this series for two reasons. He's tall and he's clutch. Barry will return to being a non-factor. I just don't think he'll be hitting shots b/c he's not gonna be getting the looks he's getting against the Suns. I'm still not a believer in the one they call BONES.


6) Offensively, the Pistons have some mismatches. Bowen will no doubt be on Hamilton, leaving Manu on Prince. That matchup is a nightmare for the Spurs.

You really think so. I would rather have Bowen on Prince. And Manu chasing Hamilton around. If we can pressure Billups and ride him down the court, we could cut down the shot clock and limit the amount of time Hamilton has on running screens to get open.


7) Pop's man-love for Larry Brown might lead him to not take the right approach to the series. He might be too worried about offended his best friend instead of just concentrating on beating him.

I think that's a reach, but POP has always pissed me off at times with some of the things he does on offense and his substitutions.


All in all, Spurs fans need to settle down. It's way too early to starting talking about river boats. The Suns series isn't over and the Pistons are waiting right around the corner. If you are building a team to beat the Spurs, the Pistons are pretty darn close to what you'd come up with.

Recognize.

Believe.

Agreed.

[5ToolMan]

Timvp i think you made an excellent thread. Anytime the spurs face a defense which is even remotely stingy or physical the spurs offense is absolutely non existent. rasheed wallace is by far the best defender when it comes to guarding TD, no one can guard him as well as sheed, and tayshaun prince is gonna be a handful. we can keep rip down or chauncey down but i dont see us stopping both at the same time. also both wallaces should have no problem keeping parker out of the lane. and if parker isnt slicing through the lane, he's rendered pretty useless as his outside J is ugly! im really rooting for miami to pull it out against detroit tho it will probably be a 5 game series like u said. i think the chances of the spurs beating a showboating miami team (See: alonzo mourning) will be much easier than a rugged pistons team.
I think like the mass of media, who up until the recent offensive explosion of the Spurs still called the Spurs slow, plodding and boring, you are living in the past.

This Spurs team is much deeper offensively than any team of the past, including the 1999 and 2003 NBA Champions. The players added and developed AND the rule changes give this Spurs team great advantages offensively over all recent past Spurs teams.

I see injury as the only thing that has, or can slow these Spurs down.
Tim, Nesto and Brown all were limited or MIA in the Nuggets and Sonics series, but each are starting to contribute more as time goes on. Even with these major glitches, the Spurs offense has had few bad quarters in these playoffs, and even this year, when healthy.

When Tim and the Spurs were healthy, the Spurs average margin of victory was in line with the greatest teams of all time, and their scoring was on a consistant increase. AND, all this was while Tim and Manu were only logging limited minutes because of so much hoops played by each in recent summers. The focus of the team was still on defense most of the year, but they never had much trouble cranking up the offense, when it was needed.

While I hope Brown can contribute, even without him, once Tim and Rasho get their game legs back, the Spurs are simply too deep and too talented for the Pistons. This Pistons team has a bench that is almost as shallow as the Suns. Only McDyes is expected to make any significant contribution, forcing their starters to log major minutes.

With the starters now logging more minutes, the new rotations for the Spurs have given them a seldem mentioned but major advantage. Pop now has the benifit of always having at least two of Tim, Tony and Manu on the floor at the same time. This puts major pressure on the defense, and gives the roll players who are in the game more opportunity to shine, as the focus of the defense is always spread between two stars. With the big three playing more minutes, and having shorter rest between playing spurts, they stay warm and focused, eliminating as many cold spells.

[CavsSuperFan]

Maybe the Pistons are the team to beat...But I really hope that Shaq gains some mobility so he can soften them up for the finals...

(Two surgeries this past month in his thigh?)

I think Ben Wallace lucked out, BIG TIME! :smokin

[td4mvp3]

and we have more than two games this season to go on. looking at the 2003-04 season, again, parker and billups were about even, switching roles in lopsided losses. and in the only face off that featured the starting rosters of the 05, the spurs won in 04 by a pretty good margin, won again this year by 3 and came up just short without td and manu. looking at the 04 victory, the guys who really brought it were manu and parker, and that's with duncan only going for 12 points.

i like what someone else pointed out. both defenses are top notch so it will come down to offense. the pistons are far more iffy in that department.

[whottt]

I have to say that I agree with TimVP...

Billups > Parker

Rasheed > Duncan

Hamilton > Manu

Prince > Bowen

And of course...

Brown > Pop

Pistons are the better team and they will beat us...Fear them....because no one on our team can score and all of their guys can...we should be on the defensive against them at all times, they have no reason whatsoever to worry about us...and our nuts should shrivel over the offensive juggernaut that is the Detroit Pistons...

No doubt Pop will make this a defensive pissing contest and seem to think playing players that can't score but can play D...will be the way to win it.

There is ample reason to be a pussy about this.

Let's not forget that big Piston win against us when we went 21-61...the last time Detroit won in SA.

Of course it's all moot because...Suns in 7. And D'Antoni>>>>>>>>>Pop.

[timvp]

Another thing I'm worried about is the Suns getting the Spurs too overconfident and out of their system. The Spurs aren't this 120 point per game team that can come out and out score you. To win, they need a slower pace and offensive execution. Against the Suns, all you really have to do is pass it until you have a wide open shot.

Going from the Suns to the Pistons or the Heat is a huge jump. It's almost a different sport. That will make the first two home games that much tougher.




But, like I've said throughout all my posts in this thread, the most important thing right now is to finish off the Suns.

[milkyway21]

This is not last years team. If the Spurs continue to click on offense and defense, they will run the pistons or heat out of the building while holding either to under 80.this one i agree.

as what the Sam Smith of Chicago Tribune had pointed out, this 2005 Spurs team is no longer the boring-no offense only defense team anymore....

43 pts 4th qtr? game 1 & 2 4th qtr.70+ FG%.

This team now attacks its opponents.
Offense has improved a lot this year.

[boutons]

"The Spurs aren't this 120 point per game team that can come out and out score you"

How can the Spurs be guilty or blame-able for the Suns not putting up any defense, for being out of the Spurs' system?

The Spurs have offensive force, if there's no resistance, Spurs score.

It will be an adjustment in the Finals, but the Spurs are capable of making that adjustment. They know that Suns are especially sucky on defense, and Pistons/Heat will necessitate very different game plan.

Suns had a good road record, but there was one, huge, black pothole in their road trips, and that was @SBC Dec 28th, when the Spurs handed a healthy Suns their worst road L, by far, when the Suns' road dominance met the Spurs' home dominance, and Spurs prevailed.

And the Spurs' season road medicrity has NOT continued into the playoffs.

The Spurs can see the Finals just out reach, and last May is still a fresh and painful memory. There will be no let-down, no lackadaiscial play by Spurs @SBC.

[milkyway21]

I have to say that I agree with TimVP...

Billups > Parker

Rasheed > Duncan

Hamilton > Manu

Prince > Bowen

And of course...

Brown > Pop

Pistons are the better team and they will beat us...Fear them....because no one on our team can score and all of their guys can...we should be on the defensive against them at all times, they have no reason whatsoever to worry about us...and our nuts should shrivel over the offensive juggernaut that is the Detroit Pistons...

whott, i always respect your opinions but definitely not this:



Rasheed > Duncan:rolleyes
..i just can't imagine how could this be made possible for you. Saw that Rasheed missed shots game 2 of EC finals vs Miami, Rasheed got all the crucial shots...missing ALL of them:cry.


Hamilton > Manu:rolleyes
..Manu can easily figure out his opponents' defense on him he can find ways to take a shot every game. as of now he is averaging 20 pts per game in the playoffs. Meanwhile game 2 of EC finals Rip missed(again?),3 crucial FTs that could have brought them a shot closer vs Miami...:cry


Brown > Pop:rolleyes
...shld be Brown=Pops


Pistons are the better team and they will beat us...Fear them....because no one on our team can score and all of their guys can...i might agree on better team right now bec. Duncan is NOT 100% healthy. Manu is battered and bruised...

but NOT on the Spurs team unable to score.

hell, we are a better scoring team than Detroit.:cuss
the playoff stats so far, after game 2:

SA FG% 46.6 Det 44.5%

SA 3pt% 38.2% Det 33.7%

SA 3pt made=228 Det 187

SA highest FG% Nazr=56%

Det highest FG%McDyess=50.6% 2nd Big
Ben=50.5%

better think twice whott, you might have missed predicting this one again like the Sonics?

believe in the Spurs.

[SpursChampsIII]

U guys are fuckin gay.The pistons will fuckin rape the mother fuckn spurs. u guys are jsut gay ass cunt slicken front runners

Don't call your mama such names on this board. Be a nice son and pick her up on the corner by the crack house on the way home tonight.

[SpursChampsIII]

You just can't argue with that analysis :bang

The reason you can't argue with this punk ass bitch is because it's hard to read the post...hooked on ebonics.

[team-work]

I'd pick Detroit vs Spurs for the NBA Finals, not because of anything else...

Only that last time Duncan played in Detroit 1-2 minutes, after stepping on R Wallace's foot and went to injury list. If things are so funny, Duncan will take care of his unfinished business there and dominate.

To make things more funny, maybe R Wallace got his own ankle hurt during the Finals, and Antonio McDyess, a former All-Star Forward himself, will need to face Duncan most of the time.

[Sense]

I think we face more mismatches with Miami....Detroit isn't that good of a team.
I think we can definately beat them even at their best.

The spurs are playing championship basketball, and as I've seen with detroit they arent. Manu can get points against prince...and sheed cant cover duncan without getting in foul trouble this season. Ben wallace hasnt been productive either because hes been on duncan as well. I think the role players will kill them and manu will do his thing.

Overall, we shouldn't be worried about detroit because they know we are the team to beat.

[mavsfan1000]

I could see San Antonio shut down Detroit's offense because they have no superstars that are unguardable. Miami might be inexperienced but they have the potential to play incredible basketball. I think San Antonio would rather face Detroit even though they are the world champions. If Prince guards Ginobili than who will guard Parker.

[guaransheed]

I could see San Antonio shut down Detroit's offense because they have no superstars that are unguardable. Miami might be inexperienced but they have the potential to play incredible basketball. I think San Antonio would rather face Detroit even though they are the world champions. If Prince guards Ginobili than who will guard Parker. How about the point guard that made 2nd all NBA defensive team :rolleyes

[mavsfan1000]

How about the point guard that made 2nd all NBA defensive team :rolleyes
Miami owned Detroit tonight and will give San Antonio alot of problems. No one in the league can stop Wade.

[Tek_XX]

Ouch pistons forgot to play Defense tonight, i still think they are favored

[team-work]

Detroit has lots of similarities to Spurs, eg defense, inside presence, defensive-minded small forward...Miami depend on Wade heavily. (O'neal and others are injured).

Spurs can handle both of them.

[mavsfan1000]

This Miami team this year is actually better than last years lakers team so San Antonio will be challenged.

[T Park]

No one in the league can stop Wade.

no one has a bruce bowen either.

[Duff McCartney]

Yeah timvp...they sure are the team to beat. They can't even keep their poise. Getting stupid technicals at the wrong time.

[mavsfan1000]

Bruce Bowen sure did a good job of guarding Bryant last year. Wade is for real and I hope he loses but I think he is better than Bryant. His percentages show it.

[Jimcs50]

Bump.

You were saying, timvp?

:)

[MadDog73]

Since neither series is over yet, who knows who the team to beat will be?

[nkdlunch]

This Miami team this year is actually better than last years lakers team so San Antonio will be challenged.

This year's San Antonio team is way better than last years also :)

[mavsfan1000]

This year's San Antonio team is way better than last years also :)
I thought they were very good last year also. I thought they felt the pressure against LAL and hopefully don't feel the pressure in the finals.

[timvp]

Bump.

You were saying, timvp?

:)

The Pistons are winning the series.

Watch.

[mavsfan1000]

The pistons are overrated. They used to have a great bench but now it is a 6 man team. Miami is better than people think they are. I've been watching them all year in pain. They are the 2nd best team. They had slow start and kept getting better throughout the season. If they played like this all year they would've won 65 games. 11-7 start.

[Jimcs50]

The Pistons are winning the series.

Watch.

I hope so, starting tonight.




I bet $200 on them tonight and have to give 5 points to Miami. I am thinking a good Detroit blowout, considering that they are losing their coach and all.

[UnknownPlayer]

restrequest(timvp){STFU;timvp=Clueless}

[timvp]

Detroit has their backs up against a wall and they come with a 60 point first half. Even more impressive ... they have no turnovers.

But I thought timvp was clueless.

[ShoogarBear]

22 baskets, 17 assists.

[GrandeDavid]

Spurs have home court over either Miami or Detroit, so that would obviously be nice. Its not so much what those teams can impose on San Antonio, San Antonio has the top rated defense in the league and has shown a nack for running as well. I think that San Antonio is the "best" team in the league and would dispose of either Miami or Detroit in 6 games. More later...

[GrandeDavid]

Let's also try to focus on the problems THE SPURS would impose on the Pistons. I appreciate TimVP's humble, realistic approach to this potential matchup, but being objective, I'm sure Pistons fans are also gripping about 4/7 games against the TMT (Tim, Manu, Tony). Should be a helluva series! I'd still wager Spurs in six.

[mavsfan1000]

The Pistons don't matchup well to San Antonio.

[Jimcs50]

It still might be the Suns in the Finals....don't forget about that possibility.

[SWC Bonfire]

It still might be the Suns in the Finals....don't forget about that possibility.

Best case scenario - they beat each other up so bad and expend so much energy that the Spurs can open it up speed-wise on the winner of the series and be up 2-0 in a hurry, and grind out the remainder of the games against a tired team.

[Jimcs50]

Woudn't it be something for the Spurs to end the last 2 seasons with a 4 game sweep by their opponent?

That is a possibility you know.

[SWC Bonfire]

Woudn't it be something for the Spurs to end the last 2 seasons with a 4 game sweep by their opponent?

That is a possibility you know.

You could be struck by lightning - better possibility, you know.

[Jimcs50]

Best case scenario - they beat each other up so bad and expend so much energy that the Spurs can open it up speed-wise on the winner of the series and be up 2-0 in a hurry, and grind out the remainder of the games against a tired team.


Stop talking about the Finals.

You better hope the Spurs themselves are not doing it.

[Jimcs50]

Actually the odds were already posted by me, it is something like 273-3

Odds of being struck by lightning is something like 9,000,000-1.

[nkdlunch]

Woudn't it be something for the Spurs to end the last 2 seasons with a 4 game sweep by their opponent?

That is a possibility you know.

Hey Nostradamus, aren't you supposed to predict Spurs win?? you're fuking up my day! :depressed

[SWC Bonfire]

Why, am I going to jix them? The Spurs have proven themselves to be professionals. Do you really think my post and observation of the probable outcome of this series will have any effect? It is a best case scenario. Worst case? The plane crashes, thermonuclear war with China, volcanos poison the atmosphere. Not as likely, though. That's all I'm saying. With all the doom and gloom going around by some idiots on this forum, the power of positive thinking would do Spurs fans some good...

[nkdlunch]

Why, am I going to jix them? The Spurs have proven themselves to be professionals. Do you really think my post and observation of the probable outcome of this series will have any effect? It is a best case scenario. Worst case? The plane crashes, thermonuclear war with China, volcanos poison the atmosphere. Not as likely, though. That's all I'm saying. With all the doom and gloom going around by some idiots on this forum, the power of positive thinking would do Spurs fans some good...

Huh? I ain't talkin to you fool. I'm talkin to Nostradamus Jr.

[SWC Bonfire]

Actually the odds were already posted by me, it is something like 273-3

Odds of being struck by lightning is something like 9,000,000-1.

http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/medical.htm

Never has a 0-3 team won a seven game series in the history of the NBA. Not that it won't ever happen, but some sick bastards on here will hope that it will happen just so that they can say, "I told you so!"

The only sports that has happened in have been hockey (who doesn't play anymore) and baseball, both games with limited opportunities to score. That has a HUGE effect on whether a team can pull an upset.

[SPARKY]

Hopefully the Spurs respond after a shitty performance the way the Pistons did last night. Damn, one win and the Spurs are back in the NBA Finals. One fucking win.

[SWC Bonfire]

Huh? I ain't talkin to you fool. I'm talkin to Nostradamus Jr.

I was responding to Jim's earlier post, you may have missed it while you were typing your other comment.

[nkdlunch]

oh my bad

[Spurodamus]

http://members.aol.com/blackrose3000/images/negrodamus.jpg


You talking to me?

[Jimcs50]

Hey Nostradamus, aren't you supposed to predict Spurs win?? you're fuking up my day! :depressed

:)

Just trying to be a little pebble in your Nikes.....


Stay focused on winning this series. I have counted my Spurs' chickens too many times to know better, starting in 79 against the Bullets.

[timvp]

It's going to be tough.

[ducks]

Bring These Bad Boys On The Are Going To Get Owned!

[jochhejaam]

Bring These Bad Boys On The Are Going To Get Owned!

Yep, we've been hearing that for the last 3 rounds and we are unfazed.
The game is won on the court, not in the message boards :blah

"whenever a man thinks he stands firm, let him take heed lest he fall"
-Proverbs-

[SPARKY]

Yeah and, um, we've been hearing that for the last 3 rounds and we are unfazed.

Any other stunning insights?

[Vashner]

What are the current Vegas odds on Spurs/Thugz series?

Edit: According to Vegas.com the sports line is Spurs by 6 for Game 1...

So apparently the men with the money think Spurs are the team to beat NOT Detroit.

[milkyway21]

Yep, we've been hearing that for the last 3 rounds and we are unfazed.
The game is won on the court, not in the message boards :blah

"whenever a man thinks he stands firm, let him take heed lest he fall"
-Proverbs-:huh

so how was Rasheed in game 1? and Rip? and Prince, who can't stop Manu making 26 pts.? :blah

[ducks]

I think that the heat might have given the spurs more trouble after the first two games

[mavsfan1000]

I think that the heat might have given the spurs more trouble after the first two games
Shaq would give San Antonio some trouble because he keeps getting to the foul line and that would take away San Antonio's running game but still spurs in 6.

[2centsworth]

Phoenix is clearly the team to beat right now, but if the spurs advance to face detroit I don't think Detroit will win for several reasons.

1. Spurs have more talent

2. Detroit doesn't shoot the 3 all that well

3. They have no real inside scoring presence. Wallace has turned himself into a jump shooter.

4. Spurs have home court.

5. Detroit's offense sucks, just wait to you match up their terrible offense with the spurs defense. Though the spurs may only score 80, detroit will struggle to break 70.


The Heat will give the spurs the most trouble.

so far everything I've said has been true. Spurs need to keep up the defensive intensity and the series should not come back to SA.

[whottt]

Pistons in 6

[2centsworth]

Pistons in 6

coming from you should give spurs fans a lot of comfort.

[whottt]

And from the looks of this thread they needed it...

[T Park]

Pistons in 6



ha ha.....

[2centsworth]

And from the looks of this thread they needed it...
I get it.