Project Spurs: Coach, can we talk?

[duncan228]

Coach, can we talk? (http://projectspurs.com/)
Written by Nick Kapsis
Project Spurs

Ya know, we really have come along way, Coach. It seems as if just yesterday I was cursing you and your decision to oust Bob Hill—in retrospect, not one of my finer moments, and none-too-fair to you. But, in all fairness, Hill didn’t just look good on the sidelines, it was as if he came from Miami Vice’s central casting. And let’s be honest, Coach, any adolescent at the time would have felt the same way. I’m not proud of the way I acted, but Don Johnson is Don Johnson—and Don Johnson you ain’t.

But, see, I didn’t get it back then. I was just a punk kid, prone to the superficial. Nuance was lost on me. I knew what I was seeing and I knew there was more to the game than putting the little orange ball in the hole, but I was immature. Irrational, even. I was a fanatic in the worst sense of the word: passionately ignorant.

So even as I saw my hero, The Admiral (have-you-seen-his-biceps?!?), David Robinson, getting unfairly taken apart by the media, Bob Hill was still Don Johnson. And, really, so what if he watched a team zone-up his star defensively on one end while tasking his own to defend the opposition’s (Olajuwon) one-on-one at the other? Crockett had his pros and cons—apparently devising half-court defensive schemes would fall into the latter. (But, man… he sure knew how to dress, and his hair was spectacular.)

Thankfully, and appreciatively, though, you never held that against me. You truly were a gentleman, often allowing my criticisms and inflammatory rhetoric to simply roll off your back. It went in one ear, and out the other. Had I not known any better, I would have believed my words had fallen on a deaf ear or were simply inaudible. But I did know better. You were the better man, above it all—a mountain of a man—and for that you should be commended—I will truly never understand how it is you’ve managed to put up with me for all these years or how you managed to stay focused on the task at hand as I berated and/or questioned your tactics from the comfort of my home. But you did, and because of that—just days away from the fourteenth anniversary of Hill’s firing (Dec. 10, 1996)—we can both look back and laugh. We really have come a long way, Coach.

Read more (http://projectspurs.com/2010-articles/december/coach-can-we-talk.html)

[Blackjack]

For clarification:

Coach, I know you know what I know. I know what I know you've known because what you've known is what allowed me to know.

And just like I know you've heard me thru the TV screen all these years, I know that you know what you're doing. I know this knowingly without the ability to really know.

Comprendé?

[TD 21]

I think anyone who's convinced themselves that this is some mastermind move of Pop's to let Splitter rest in the early going, bring him along slowly, let him get acclimated and then unleash him later in the season, is going to be disappointed and surprised when they find out that's not at all what's happening.

What's really happening is this: Barring injury, with the possible exception of the Lakers (I'm not even confident in that), he's not going to be a top three big at any point this season and will probably end up battling it out with Blair to see who's the fourth big in the playoff rotation. It will probably be dependent on match-ups more than anything.

[SpursDynasty85]

I think anyone who's convinced themselves that this is some mastermind move of Pop's to let Splitter rest in the early going, bring him along slowly, let him get acclimated and then unleash him later in the season, is going to be disappointed and surprised when they find out that's not at all what's happening.

What's really happening is this: Barring injury, with the possible exception of the Lakers (I'm not even confident in that), he's not going to be a top three big at any point this season and will probably end up battling it out with Blair to see who's the fourth big in the playoff rotation. It will probably be dependent on match-ups more than anything.


If this is really the plan then Coach Pop needs to go. I will give him the benefit of the doubt because I'm sure Buford and management and probably Pop knows Splitter needs to play for the spurs to be the best team it can be.

[Blackjack]

I don't know what to think, TD 21, in all honesty.

The case can easily be made that Pop simply made do when the circumstance dictated he needed to. One can quibble with the fact that the Spurs didn't look to revamp, retool or upgrade in any significant fashion after the '07 title, I certainly was one to question the logic, but they did manage to make the WCF. And had it not been for a Manu injury and a tarmac, who's to say they don't go back-to-back? So even if I had my doubts about the approach, it's hard to chastise Pop and Co. for giving the '07 crew an opportunity to defend their title.

And after that, the 08-09 and 09-10 seasons, the decisions made or not made weren't really of the championship variety. Sure, there were plenty of decisions I disagreed with, whether it was playing a has-been over a never-was or what-might-could-be or deciding to go small instead of playing a serviceable big man, but they weren't decisions preventing the Spurs from winning championships.

When it really comes down to it, it just seems like Pop saw a glimmer of hope with the smaller and more offensive units he had at his disposal and was certain the personnel on the roster couldn't replicate the championship formula of yesteryear -- they couldn't play the same D with his best defensive lineups and the D they could muster wasn't good enough to compensate for their lack of O.

Again, I don't know what to think. Pop's a smart guy and one of the best coaches to ever grace the sidelines. He just is. Period. So rationalizing as it may be, in context, the decisions he's made with the personnel he had at his disposal, I can only argue that he didn't necessarily choose the right players to develop (whether it was for that season or future seasons) or to give them a few extra wins here or there. Maybe you can make the argument having Duncan paired with another legit frontcourt player could have helped to prolong his career -- maybe (tough to prove and Duncan's likely the same player he would have been given all the mileage and knee issues prior) -- but there's really not a whole lot that could have been changed that would have put the Spurs in any better position than they are now (on the court-wise -- not speaking to trades or front office decisions).

So like I said, I know that Pop knows what we know. I have to believe -- I just have to (in the name of Jobu) -- that the wear and tear and the injuries to Splitter have been the reason for a slower-than-hoped-and-anticipated integration. I just have to believe Pop's not so far detached from those Spurs teams prior to the Duncan era or all of the teams during this current Spurs run that tried to compensate for defense and size with offense, shooting.

It's just not that complicated. With Splitter, Anderson and Neal added to the core of last year, the Spurs now have the potential to both play the necessary D and hit the requisite amount of 3s. They haven't had that combination since '07.

I've just gotta believe . . .

[Man In Black]

Maybe Pop is waiting for Splitter AND Anderson to get healthy? He'll start to play Splitter when the situation calls for it, against teams with big bigs but then when Anderson is back, then Pop unleashes both of them.

At least that's what I see happening. Whether it does or not, well...only Pop knows.

[Blackjack]

Maybe Pop is waiting for Splitter AND Anderson to get healthy? He'll start to play Splitter when the situation calls for it, against team with big bigs but then when Anderson is back, then Pop unleashed both of them.

At least that's what I see happening. Whether it does or not, well...only Pop knows.

The only thing that could be holding back Splitter from seeing minutes would be a.) injury; or b.) inability.

Splitter's clearly not lacking for ability or usefulness, so I have to believe it's due to injury, wear-and-tear and the precaution borne in its light.

Rightly or wrongly, it just makes more sense than believing Pop has just forgotten what it is that made him a champion 4-times over.

It felt like Pop was on the right track regarding Anderson before he went down. He had him really starting to become a legit rotation player and James was finally starting to work himself back into shape and find his game off the dribble and in the open court. So the fact that Anderson looked to be on his way to fulfilling a pretty significant role is somewhat encouraging on the Tiago front -- though the depth of talent on the wing is non-existent compared to their frontline.

We'll see. The skepticism's warranted but I'm erring on the side of competence.

[Man In Black]

That is logical. Emotion cannot rule the decision making process.
http://www.startrek.com/legacy_media/images/200307/spock01/320x240.jpg

[Blackjack]

Speaking of Spock, how exactly would he feel about the NBA's first Klingon?

http://www.chathamjournal.com/weekly/moxiepix/b3_2124.jpg

[jjktkk]

As I've said in other threads regarding Splitter, some Spurs fans have been eagerly awaiting Spitter's arrival for a couple of years now and want to see Splitter getting siginificant minutes right away, if not actually be in the starting lineup. I also think some of us Spurs fans have overhyped Splitter, maybe even puting some unrealistic expectations on Splitter being the next, great, Spurs, big man, to come riding in on a white horse for one last championship run for the Spurs. And by Splitter not instantly getting regular minutes right away, some fans are already panicking that Splitter will forever ride the pine, instead of having alittle faith and patience in that Splitter will become a factor for this team, once Pop deems Splitter healthy and ready for an expanded role.

[Man In Black]

I'm cool with 8 & 8 but even moreso, a mobile big who doesn't shy away from physical contact. It's weird that so many are freaking out like this, especially since the team has been good to real good this season.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The only thing that could be holding back Splitter from seeing minutes would be a.) injury; or b.) inability.

c) http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/media/act_matt_bonner.jpg d) http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/media/act_antonio_mcdyess.jpg e) http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/media/act_dejuan_blair.jpg

[itzsoweezee]

I think anyone who's convinced themselves that this is some mastermind move of Pop's to let Splitter rest in the early going, bring him along slowly, let him get acclimated and then unleash him later in the season, is going to be disappointed and surprised when they find out that's not at all what's happening.

What's really happening is this: Barring injury, with the possible exception of the Lakers (I'm not even confident in that), he's not going to be a top three big at any point this season and will probably end up battling it out with Blair to see who's the fourth big in the playoff rotation. It will probably be dependent on match-ups more than anything.

You're completely right. Delusional people are going to be delusional.

Popovich is obsessed with his system. You miss preseason and don't have that shit down? You're SOL.

[Blackjack]

c) http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/media/act_matt_bonner.jpg d) http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/media/act_antonio_mcdyess.jpg e) http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/media/act_dejuan_blair.jpg

That would fall into b.) inability. As in, inability to earn minutes over Bonner, Blair or steal some preservation minutes from 'Dyess.

But if you'd like another option, there's always c.) incompetence.

[Man In Black]

You're completely right. Delusional people are going to be delusional.

Popovich is obsessed with his system. You miss preseason and don't have that shit down? You're SOL.
Manu missed preseason and as a rookie, became the missing piece needed to win a title and send DRob sailing into the sunset a champion.


In his first season in the NBA, Ginóbili played backup for veteran guard Steve Smith.[3] He spent much of the early season injured, and found it hard to adjust to the NBA's style of play. As his injury improved, so did Ginóbili, winning the Western Conference Rookie of the Month in March, and being named to the All-Rookie Second Team at the end of the season.[5] Still, he only started in five games as the Spurs chalked up a 60–22 regular season win–loss record.[10][11] The Spurs then entered the playoffs eager to upend the defending champions Los Angeles Lakers, and this was when Ginóbili rose to prominence.


For people who say that Pop doesn't play players in the playoffs if they didn't get a full training camp and was hurt for a long part of the season and even though he has skills that should translate to negating another team's advantage...

In contrast to his regular season, Ginóbili became an integral part of Gregg Popovich's rotational set up in the playoffs, playing in every game.[5] The Spurs eliminated Phoenix and Los Angeles[12] and in those games his scoring threat took opponents by surprise, giving them one more thing to cope with against the now highly-favored Spurs. He helped guide them past the Dallas Mavericks in the Western Conference Finals and then the New Jersey Nets in the Finals,[12] securing San Antonio's second championship. After the win, Ginóbili won his first Olimpia de Oro ("Golden Olympia") as Argentina's sportsperson of the year,[13] and even met Argentine president Néstor Kirchner.[3] A gym in Bahía Blanca was dedicated in Ginóbili's honor as well.[3]

It's happened before, and well...it could happen again. Just let the process evolve. You don't change it for change's sake.

[TD 21]

I don't know what to think, TD 21, in all honesty.

The case can easily be made that Pop simply made do when the circumstance dictated he needed to. One can quibble with the fact that the Spurs didn't look to revamp, retool or upgrade in any significant fashion after the '07 title, I certainly was one to question the logic, but they did manage to make the WCF. And had it not been for a Manu injury and a tarmac, who's to say they don't go back-to-back? So even if I had my doubts about the approach, it's hard to chastise Pop and Co. for giving the '07 crew an opportunity to defend their title.

And after that, the 08-09 and 09-10 seasons, the decisions made or not made weren't really of the championship variety. Sure, there were plenty of decisions I disagreed with, whether it was playing a has-been over a never-was or what-might-could-be or deciding to go small instead of playing a serviceable big man, but they weren't decisions preventing the Spurs from winning championships.

When it really comes down to it, it just seems like Pop saw a glimmer of hope with the smaller and more offensive units he had at his disposal and was certain the personnel on the roster couldn't replicate the championship formula of yesteryear -- they couldn't play the same D with his best defensive lineups and the D they could muster wasn't good enough to compensate for their lack of O.

Again, I don't know what to think. Pop's a smart guy and one of the best coaches to ever grace the sidelines. He just is. Period. So rationalizing as it may be, in context, the decisions he's made with the personnel he had at his disposal, I can only argue that he didn't necessarily choose the right players to develop (whether it was for that season or future seasons) or to give them a few extra wins here or there. Maybe you can make the argument having Duncan paired with another legit frontcourt player could have helped to prolong his career -- maybe (tough to prove and Duncan's likely the same player he would have been given all the mileage and knee issues prior) -- but there's really not a whole lot that could have been changed that would have put the Spurs in any better position than they are now (on the court-wise -- not speaking to trades or front office decisions).

So like I said, I know that Pop knows what we know. I have to believe -- I just have to (in the name of Jobu) -- that the wear and tear and the injuries to Splitter have been the reason for a slower-than-hoped-and-anticipated integration. I just have to believe Pop's not so far detached from those Spurs teams prior to the Duncan era or all of the teams during this current Spurs run that tried to compensate for defense and size with offense, shooting.

It's just not that complicated. With Splitter, Anderson and Neal added to the core of last year, the Spurs now have the potential to both play the necessary D and hit the requisite amount of 3s. They haven't had that combination since '07.

I've just gotta believe . . .

You think positive, I'll think realistic.

I don't think it's wear and tear at this point. I bought that when they brought him back slowly from his injury and during the first handful of games, but not at this point. What I think it is, is very simple.

This team simply has four other rotation quality bigs that Pop is more familiar and therefore comfortable with. Come playoff time, if Blair is out of the rotation, sure he'll be down, but big deal. In the off season, McDyess will retire and come next season, Blair and Splitter will have established roles. But if Pop were to go away from Blair now, he knows he could potentially hurt his confidence and the Spurs can't have that. It's only roughly a quarter of the way through the season, they need his young legs for at least another forty games or so. So he'll continue to rely on him. They also need Bonner to help eat up minutes and with how ridiculously well he's shot the ball in a bunch of games, he's not going to go away from him. At some point, he probably goes away from McDyess for a bit just to get Splitter some more time and preserve McDyess as much as possible for later in the season, when he inevitably takes over the starting position.

The point is, there is no logical player to take out of the rotation at this time and it's tough to play five bigs in a game. So Splitter is the fifth by default. But I don't buy that what's going on now is some process to build him up to becoming the second or third big at some point. I think, for the most part, what you see is what you get.

Pop basically said either yesterday or today that he feels he can't give him the minutes he needs right now to fully acclimate Splitter and at this point, it would probably take a certain match-up (Lakers) for him to play ahead of one of the other bigs (Blair).

[Blackjack]

You think positive, I'll think realistic.

Fine by me. I'm tired of feeling like a wet blanket, waiting for the next shoe to drop. I've been that for the last two years and given the results, I've decided to try something else -- namely Jobu (and I'm thinking about buying some of those Tony Robbins DVDs).

As per the usual, though, you and I see about the same thing. I've just decided to try a new tactic. And if it works, I'll let you know -- us sick puppies have to look out for each other. :hat

But to one specific point, and in my newfound benefit-of-the-doubt and optimistic approach, I don't believe there was some gameplan devised the moment they got Splitter to sign. What probably happened was, they saw the "body talking to him" this summer, Splitter sustained another injury that kept him out of camp, and knowing how much basketball he had played and the fact that he's been considered a little injury prone in his past, they probably decided they were going to have to take things pretty slow and make sure he truly had the time to recuperate for the upcoming year -- which given the fact that he averaged around 50 games a year, was coming off playing additional summer ball and would be entering a season that could extend to as many as 100 games, it's not unthinkable that they would then reevaluate how to best navigate Splitter's season for the long haul.

That's what I meant by wear and tear and injury. Not that he was broken down and exhausted or injured right now, just that he may be more susceptible to having a real setback if they don't proceed with caution.

And if it's not the case and Pop decides that this year just isn't for Tiago, a la George, then I'll be able to feign shock and disappointment. Ya know, just keepin' it fresh ... trying something new. :downspin:

[TD 21]

Fine by me. I'm tired of feeling like a wet blanket, waiting for the next shoe to drop. I've been that for the last two years and given the results, I've decided to try something else -- namely Jobu (and I'm thinking about buying some of those Tony Robbins DVDs).

As per the usual, though, you and I see about the same thing. I've just decided to try a new tactic. And if it works, I'll let you know -- us sick puppies have to look out for each other. :hat

But to one specific point, and in my newfound benefit-of-the-doubt and optimistic approach, I don't believe there was some gameplan devised the moment they got Splitter to sign. What probably happened was, they saw the "body talking to him" this summer, Splitter sustained another injury that kept him out of camp, and knowing how much basketball he had played and the fact that he's been considered a little injury prone in his past, they probably decided they were going to have to take things pretty slow and make sure he truly had the time to recuperate for the upcoming year -- which given the fact that he averaged around 50 games a year, was coming off playing additional summer ball and would be entering a season that could extend to as many as 100 games, it's not unthinkable that they would then reevaluate how to best navigate Splitter's season for the long haul.

That's what I meant by wear and tear and injury. Not that he was broken down and exhausted or injured right now, just that he may be more susceptible to having a real setback if they don't proceed with caution.

And if it's not the case and Pop decides that this year just isn't for Tiago, a la George, then I'll be able to feign shock and disappointment. Ya know, just keepin' it fresh ... trying something new. :downspin:

Let me ask you this. Hypothetically speaking, Splitter doesn't play internationally last summer, comes into camp well rested, doesn't get injured, looks mostly impressive throughout camp and preseason. Do you think things would be different than they are now? I don't.

That's my point. They didn't adjust their game plan with him along the way, it was always going to be this way. Only now, they have justification for doing what they're doing. But really, we should have all known better. There was no reason to think they were going to drop Blair, Bonner or McDyess from the rotation. Like I said, they may go through a stretch where they do that with McDyess, but it'll only be to preserve him for the long haul, it won't be an actual demotion.

All of your reasoning made sense a while back, but it doesn't fly now. He's 25, not 35. If they truly saw him as the piece so many of us saw him as, they'd be more concerned with acclimating and indoctrinating him at this point than they would be resting him. That they're not more concerned with doing the former should tell us all we need to know about how they view him this season.

[Blackjack]

Let me ask you this. Hypothetically speaking, Splitter doesn't play internationally last summer, comes into camp well rested, doesn't get injured, looks mostly impressive throughout camp and preseason. Do you think things would be different than they are now? I don't.

Actually, sans the newfound optimistic approach, I do. I think if that's the case they take the same kind of approach they've done with Blair: a youthful stopgap with the potential to be much more.


All of your reasoning made sense a while back, but it doesn't fly now. He's 25, not 35. If they truly saw him as the piece so many of us saw him as, they'd be more concerned with acclimating and indoctrinating him at this point than they would be resting him. That they're not more concerned with doing the former should tell us all we need to know about how they view him this season.

But let's also not pretend that 25 years, especially his 25, is licence to not worry about fatigue. Because that's what we're speaking to here. If the body's fatigued and maybe even the mind as well, that's when injuries occur. And given the fact that he's never played the likes of an NBA schedule or dealt with the type of grind that it is, the jump from overseas itself would be tough enough -- he'd be in store for the infamous rookie wall everyone likes to talk about.

Pop's comments about Tiago's body talking to him and that they (the Spurs) were going to make him listen, it's just stuck with me. I'm fully aware that my new optimistic approach can lead to a good amount of rationalization, but it seems perfectly plausible to me.

Now, I do believe the hot start of Bonner threw a bit of a monkey wrench into the whole thing. I don't believe Pop envisioned that. And since they got off to such a hot start and haven't really wanted to mess with a good thing, Splitter's been put on the back burner. My only hope is that Pop and the Spurs can slowly ween themselves off of Bonner as the season wears and he cools off and by the time that's happened, Splitter's seen enough time on the court (picking up minutes from Blair and 'Dyess along the way) to where he can be the type of player that forces himself on to the court with his play.

That's the hope, at this point.

[TD 21]

Actually, sans the newfound optimistic approach, I do. I think if that's the case they take the same kind of approach they've done with Blair: a youthful stopgap with the potential to be much more.



But let's also not pretend that 25 years, especially his 25, is licence to not worry about fatigue. Because that's what we're speaking to here. If the body's fatigued and maybe even the mind as well, that's when injuries occur. And given the fact that he's never played the likes of an NBA schedule or dealt with the type of grind that it is, the jump from overseas itself would be tough enough -- he'd be in store for the infamous rookie wall everyone likes to talk about.

Pop's comments about Tiago's body talking to him and that they (the Spurs) were going to make him listen, it's just stuck with me. I'm fully aware that my new optimistic approach can lead to a good amount of rationalization, but it seems perfectly plausible to me.

Now, I do believe the hot start of Bonner threw a bit of a monkey wrench into the whole thing. I don't believe Pop envisioned that. And since they got off to such a hot start and haven't really wanted to mess with a good thing, Splitter's been put on the back burner. My only hope is that Pop and the Spurs can slowly ween themselves off of Bonner as the season wears and he cools off and by the time that's happened, Splitter's seen enough time on the court (picking up minutes from Blair and 'Dyess along the way) to where he can be the type of player that forces himself on to the court with his play.

That's the hope, at this point.

The difference with Blair was, there were only three other rotation caliber bigs last season. There is no spot for Splitter, at this point (at least in their eyes).

It's not that it's license to not worry about fatigue, it's that it's something that they shouldn't be more concerned with, in December, than getting him acclimated. This is not some fossil, like Ratliff. If fatigue and transitioning to the NBA grind is that big a deal, then why aren't they saving Neal (rhetorical question)?

It's plausible in December? Think about it. Ever if he were in the rotation, he'd only be playing 15-20 mpg. He couldn't handle that from here on out? And if he can't, how's he going to be the 25 mpg big many envisioned him being? He's going to go from playing sparingly to that? Doesn't make sense.

I think Bonner would have been in the rotation either way. The reality is, he's the third big. If Splitter were as important to this season as many of us thought, they'd be playing him over McDyess (again, to preserve him, not to demote him) right now. I'd be surprised if that messed up their rhythm. Splitter can't force his way on to the court with his play, if he doesn't get a chance to play.

[EricB]

You're completely right. Delusional people are going to be delusional.

Popovich is obsessed with his system. You miss preseason and don't have that shit down? You're SOL.


Still waiting on that coach you want to replace him with.

Waiting for the names.

[MaNu4Tres]

Splitter can't force his way on to the court with his play, if he doesn't get a chance to play.

But he's getting 10-12 minutes every other game!! Isn't that opportunity enough to accurately evaluate everything he can contribute?? Especially when he doesn't get to play with the starters and only gets to play with the shoot first (never look second) 2nd team guards?

:downspin:

[Blackjack]

The difference with Blair was, there were only three other rotation caliber bigs last season. There is no spot for Splitter, at this point (at least in their eyes).

But your hypothetical was prior to the season and before Bonner and the Spurs started as hot as they did.

So if they've got Splitter fresh, healthy and ready to go, I don't believe he gets the Oberto treatment. He was their big acquisition and they know the guy can play. So it's not all that crazy to think he could quickly become a a Top-3 or 4 big and move up the ranks as play warrants -- Pop will play young guys when they're big-time talents and not fringe players.


It's not that it's license to not worry about fatigue, it's that it's something that they shouldn't be more concerned with, in December, than getting him acclimated. This is not some fossil, like Ratliff. If fatigue and transitioning to the NBA grind is that big a deal, then why aren't they saving Neal (rhetorical question)?

But you're assuming Splitter started from the same spot everyone else did. He was clearly put behind the 8-ball with injuries and combined with the recent mileage, Pop and the Spurs weren't willing to throw him out there to get into game shape while everyone else was going one-hundred miles an hour. Again, that's how you exacerbate a situation and run into injuries.

Neal's a different case because he played summer ball with the Spurs, came into camp healthy and he's one of two pure perimeter shooters, the other of which is out with injury (Anderson). It's easier to find opportunity for him at this point and he's been ready to take advantage of those opportunities because he's been up to speed from Day 1.


It's plausible in December? Think about it. Ever if he were in the rotation, he'd only be playing 15-20 mpg. He couldn't handle that from here on out? And if he can't, how's he going to be the 25 mpg big many envisioned him being? He's going to go from playing sparingly to that? Doesn't make sense.

Yes. If the guy's not ready to go when the season starts, he's still recovering and has yet to get into game shape, then you have to build his minutes up gradually -- you can't play a guy for long stretches to get his legs and figure everything out all that well when you're trying to get out of the blocks strong. And then when Bonner goes nuts and the team just keeps on winning at a ridiculous pace, it becomes harder and harder to upset the applecart.

This really is funny to me because having this conversation with you seems like I'm playing my own devil's advocate. But it seems to be helping me see why it is Pop's doing what he's doing -- and what it seems is, he believes the team being able to get off to this start without relying on Splitter is a blessing in disguise.

He could have never asked Splitter to take a back seat if he came into camp leg-weary but without injury. He likely couldn't have kept Splitter on the same page if he told him he was going to monitor his minutes because he believed he was injury prone or susceptible to injury more than any of his teammates. Now he gets to work Splitter in as slowly and methodically as he'd like and make sure Tiago's fresh and attuned with the majority of the terminology and schemes before becoming dependent upon him. When he's ready, he's ready, in other words -- which would allow him to hit the ground running instead of catching up on the fly.


I think Bonner would have been in the rotation either way. The reality is, he's the third big. If Splitter were as important to this season as many of us thought, they'd be playing him over McDyess (again, to preserve him, not to demote him) right now. I'd be surprised if that messed up their rhythm. Splitter can't force his way on to the court with his play, if he doesn't get a chance to play.

No doubt. Bonner would have had a role. But if you've got all four of those guys healthy to start the season (Blair, Bonner, 'Dyess and Splitter), you don't believe that would change things? Say maybe using Blair and Splitter to play early to preserve 'Dyess right out of the gates and play whichever of the two young bigs was getting it done the majority of the minutes?

I was a proponent of Blair starting. And, actually, unlike what seems to be a good amount of folks, I still am (for now -- it's a long-term approach). But in the end, I believe his best opportunity to help this team win at the highest of levels is as the power-forward version of Manu -- just a real bundle of energy off the bench that can change the game and be a real X-factor for the team.

So it's not hard for me to envision Pop having Blair start the season, have him be outplayed by Splitter, and then move him back to the bench. I don't believe Blair's someone you worry about confidence with. If anything, that's the type of thing that lights a fire under DeJuan. But Splitter not being up to speed and ready to go prevented him that opportunity. Bonner and the Spurs hot start provided another hurdle for Tiago. Now it seems as if Splitter will be fed minutes sporadically and on a case-by-case basis until the team starts to taper or he's accumulated enough minutes to showcase the type of player he really is, someone settled and comfortable with his teammates and surroundings.

He's not going to force his way on the court trying to prove he can score or in a couple of short stints. But once he's settled and has become a bigger and more consistent member of the rotation, he'll eventually find himself an opportunity. And hopefully when that time comes he's ready to take the reins and become the player most of us believe he needs to be for this team.

[Man In Black]

He could have never asked Splitter to take a back seat if he came into camp leg-weary but without injury. He likely couldn't have kept Splitter on the same page if he told him he was going to monitor his minutes because he believed he was injury prone or susceptible to injury more than any of his teammates. Now he gets to work Splitter in as slowly and methodically as he'd like and make sure Tiago's fresh and attuned with the majority of the terminology and schemes before becoming dependent upon him. When he's ready, he's ready, in other words -- which would allow him to hit the ground running instead of catching up on the fly.

I say by February, he's running hard and making many people wonder why they ever doubted.

[TD 21]

But he's getting 10-12 minutes every other game!! Isn't that opportunity enough to accurately evaluate everything he can contribute?? Especially when he doesn't get to play with the starters and only gets to play with the shoot first (never look second) 2nd team guards?

:downspin:

10-12 every other game? Better hope Pop doesn't see that number, or he'll have to shorten it to 6-8 . . . once a week.

At 10-12 every other game, Splitter might not have anything left by the playoffs.


But your hypothetical was prior to the season and before Bonner and the Spurs started as hot as they did.

So if they've got Splitter fresh, healthy and ready to go, I don't believe he gets the Oberto treatment. He was their big acquisition and they know the guy can play. So it's not all that crazy to think he could quickly become a a Top-3 or 4 big and move up the ranks as play warrants -- Pop will play young guys when they're big-time talents and not fringe players.

I know it was, but you compared Splitter's situation to Blair, without acknowledging the opening in the big rotation when Blair was drafted.

He was their big acquisition because of what he's done at a high level professionally, the obvious need for someone with his physical tools and the hype that brought. Not necessarily because of how he fits on this team (this season, at least). Pop will play young guys when they're big time talents AND there's a clear opening.


But you're assuming Splitter started from the same spot everyone else did. He was clearly put behind the 8-ball with injuries and combined with the recent mileage, Pop and the Spurs weren't willing to throw him out there to get into game shape while everyone else was going one-hundred miles an hour. Again, that's how you exacerbate a situation and run into injuries.

Neal's a different case because he played summer ball with the Spurs, came into camp healthy and he's one of two pure perimeter shooters, the other of which is out with injury (Anderson). It's easier to find opportunity for him at this point and he's been ready to take advantage of those opportunities because he's been up to speed from Day 1.I'm making an educated guess. I just don't see how, in December, with a 25 year old NBA rookie, who's supposedly going to be a big part of a deep playoff run, they could be more concerned with fatigue and pacing him, etc., than they could be acclimating him.

I agree. That's why he's playing (out of necessity, more than anything . . . not that he hasn't played well) and that's why Splitter's not. You unknowingly agreed with me.


Yes. If the guy's not ready to go when the season starts, he's still recovering and has yet to get into game shape, then you have to build his minutes up gradually -- you can't play a guy for long stretches to get his legs and figure everything out all that well when you're trying to get out of the blocks strong. And then when Bonner goes nuts and the team just keeps on winning at a ridiculous pace, it becomes harder and harder to upset the applecart.

This really is funny to me because having this conversation with you seems like I'm playing my own devil's advocate. But it seems to be helping me see why it is Pop's doing what he's doing -- and what it seems is, he believes the team being able to get off to this start without relying on Splitter is a blessing in disguise.

He could have never asked Splitter to take a back seat if he came into camp leg-weary but without injury. He likely couldn't have kept Splitter on the same page if he told him he was going to monitor his minutes because he believed he was injury prone or susceptible to injury more than any of his teammates. Now he gets to work Splitter in as slowly and methodically as he'd like and make sure Tiago's fresh and attuned with the majority of the terminology and schemes before becoming dependent upon him. When he's ready, he's ready, in other words -- which would allow him to hit the ground running instead of catching up on the fly.Yeah, you do that in the early stages. We're beyond that now. That's why that type of reasoning doesn't fly at this point. At this point, they should be looking to play him at least 20 mpg, if they're counting on him to be a key player later in the season. Forget about Bonner. What about McDyess, who volunteered early in camp to sit? They couldn't give his minutes to Splitter right now?

I think in reality, Splitter is just not going to be (barring injury, of course) the key player we all thought he'd be and think he needs to be for this team to win a championship this season.

The time is now. 62 games is a lot, but for a guy new to the league, system, etc., you want him to get as many reps as possible. Build him up too slowly and he may not be ready to be the player they want him to (supposedly) be later on.


No doubt. Bonner would have had a role. But if you've got all four of those guys healthy to start the season (Blair, Bonner, 'Dyess and Splitter), you don't believe that would change things? Say maybe using Blair and Splitter to play early to preserve 'Dyess right out of the gates and play whichever of the two young bigs was getting it done the majority of the minutes?

I was a proponent of Blair starting. And, actually, unlike what seems to be a good amount of folks, I still am (for now -- it's a long-term approach). But in the end, I believe his best opportunity to help this team win at the highest of levels is as the power-forward version of Manu -- just a real bundle of energy off the bench that can change the game and be a real X-factor for the team.

So it's not hard for me to envision Pop having Blair start the season, have him be outplayed by Splitter, and then move him back to the bench. I don't believe Blair's someone you worry about confidence with. If anything, that's the type of thing that lights a fire under DeJuan. But Splitter not being up to speed and ready to go prevented him that opportunity. Bonner and the Spurs hot start provided another hurdle for Tiago. Now it seems as if Splitter will be fed minutes sporadically and on a case-by-case basis until the team starts to taper or he's accumulated enough minutes to showcase the type of player he really is, someone settled and comfortable with his teammates and surroundings.

He's not going to force his way on the court trying to prove he can score or in a couple of short stints. But once he's settled and has become a bigger and more consistent member of the rotation, he'll eventually find himself an opportunity. And hopefully when that time comes he's ready to take the reins and become the player most of us believe he needs to be for this team.No. Last season, he was going to play Ratliff ahead of Blair in the opener, until his assistants talked him out of it. If he was going to play Ratliff over a rookie at the start, then I think he'd have done the same with McDyess. Generally, if he has even a semi-viable veteran option, he's going with or at least intends to go with that guy, at least to start.

Splitter probably would have been the last big Pop would have started, particularly at the start. Pop acts like Duncan is O'Neal, a true center and should only be surrounded with pure power forwards (save for Blair, but because of his lack of size, he's basically one by default). On the heels of his rookie season and preseason, if Blair were to go from starting to out of the rotation before the All-Star break, even he might lose confidence. There's only one way to get comfortable and settled with your surroundings.

At the expense of who? Not just a specific player, but minutes-wise. Eventually, I think we're looking at this: Roughly 28/20 between McDyess/Bonner at power forward and roughly 36/12 between Duncan and either Blair/Splitter at center. If I'm right, 12 mpg does not constitute a big role.

[Blackjack]

Like I said from the start, TD, we see much the same in terms of role and minute-allocation based off of what we've seen in recent years. The only way I can see either of us being wrong -- in the way we've been made to believe -- is if it's come on somewhat of a false premise. That's why I'm looking to play devil's advocate, willing to take another approach, and leave open for the possibility that we've witnessed more the exception than rule in the last two years.

It simply comes down to if Pop and Co. have been "making do" these last couple of years or if there really has been a philosophical change. If it's the former, there's championship hope. If it's the latter, it's more of the same underwhelming results.

It was nice to see them sit 'Dyess in order to get Splitter some quality minutes. But, and this goes back to "making do" or philosophical change, it remains to be seen if that was the start of something people like ourselves believe needs to happen (Splitter becoming a Top-3 big) or if it was just a night off for 'Dyess and throwing a bone to Tiago against a meager foe.

[DMC]

Pop is absolutely obsessed with his system (convinced is a better word) and for good reason. While the other teams are busy making lemonade out of botched possessions at one end, and letting Tony and Manu run all over them at the other, Pop's system actually has success at both ends. There are so many systems out there that don't work, so when you find one that does you should stick with it.

[DMC]

Like I said from the start, TD, we see much the same in terms of role and minute-allocation based off of what we've seen in recent years. The only way I can see either of us being wrong -- in the way we've been made to believe -- is if it's come on somewhat of a false premise. That's why I'm looking to play devil's advocate, willing to take another approach, and leave open for the possibility that we've witnessed more the exception than rule in the last two years.

It simply comes down to if Pop and Co. have been "making do" these last couple of years or if there really has been a philosophical change. If it's the former, there's championship hope. If it's the latter, it's more of the same underwhelming results.

It was nice to see them sit 'Dyess in order to get Splitter some quality minutes. But, and this goes back to "making do" or philosophical change, it remains to be seen if that was the start of something people like ourselves believe needs to happen (Splitter becoming a Top-3 big) or if it was just a night off for 'Dyess and throwing a bone to Tiago against a meager foe.
I don't think Pop thinks in terms of night off and throwing bones. He's developing a tool that he's going to need down the road. Tiago is going to be important in a few games this year, and Pop cannot use precious time to just have status quo on the floor maintaining a lead against sub par teams. He needs to get guys minutes for a reason.

[Blackjack]

I don't think Pop thinks in terms of night off and throwing bones. He's developing a tool that he's going to need down the road. Tiago is going to be important in a few games this year, and Pop cannot use precious time to just have status quo on the floor maintaining a lead against sub par teams. He needs to get guys minutes for a reason.

Of course he's giving Tiago's minutes with a purpose. That's not what I was suggesting, at all. But there's a difference between giving someone minutes just to create some depth and giving someone minutes because your intention is to make someone you can have depth behind.

Tiago can't just be some nice little option on the bench the Spurs have at their disposal. Splitter (and Anderson, to a lesser extent) are crucial to this team's endgame. What TD 21 and I are discussing is the extent of which we believe Pop views Splitter as a key component to their success. Whether Tiago Splitter is needed to be a Top 3 big in the rotation or just another '05 Oberto.