Quick Grades: Spurs vs. Warriors - Dec. 8 [Archive]

timvp

12-08-2010, 11:43 PM

Quick Grades: Spurs vs. Warriors (http://www.sanantoniodispatch.com/san-antonio-spurs/spurs-grades/quick-grades-spurs-vs-warriors/)

http://www.sanantoniodispatch.com/dec8grades.jpg (http://www.sanantoniodispatch.com/san-antonio-spurs/spurs-grades/quick-grades-spurs-vs-warriors/)

ShoogarBear

12-08-2010, 11:56 PM

Assuming he starts getting consistent minutes, I think Tiago's role will be different every night.

He's going to be asked to set picks and muscle in the paint and do a bunch of stuff that won't appear in box scores. Other than that, it's going to depend on matchups. On offense I see him a lot like Oberto, taking only what's given to him, (except without the range). The nice thing is that neither he nor Blair (nor Bonner) will slow down the offense if the Spurs want to run.

I do wish he was a better rebounder than he's shown so far.

jag

12-09-2010, 12:03 AM

I do wish he was a better rebounder than he's shown so far.

He gets to the ball well, it just doesn't seem like he has very good hands. At least not rebounding. He seems to have decent hands receiving passes in the paint and off the pick n roll.

HarlemHeat37

12-09-2010, 12:06 AM

His hands are easily his problem when it comes to rebounding, it has been the same all year..it's puzzling..the way he tries to grab them is so awkward..

He actually does a great job of boxing out and getting position most of the time, he just can't grab the board..

ducks

12-09-2010, 12:07 AM

he rebounds better then bosh

sananspursfan21

12-09-2010, 12:09 AM

didn't get to catch this one. wasnt too worried about it either, it is the warriors... maybe im gettin too cocky. thanks for the grades

Mel_13

12-09-2010, 12:11 AM

he rebounds better then bosh

:lol

The numbers are actually pretty close.

timvp

12-09-2010, 12:11 AM

DPG21920

12-09-2010, 12:13 AM

Tiago still looks like the game is moving a bit too fast. Like Timvp said, he is off-balance. Once he gets adjusted, I expect him to improve in all areas.

ElNono

12-09-2010, 12:17 AM

I thought he also could be more aggressive finishing. He had a couple of layups that looked pretty weak when he could just have stuffed it. It's not the wow factor that I'm looking for, it's that better/quicker defenders are going to block that shit 9/10 times.
But he's still figuring things out.
This was a good game in that while we had a few let downs here and there, we didn't get ourselves into a hole, and were in cruise control most of the time. I thought Tony and Blair had a great game too. Obviously, finding time for Tiago while resting Dice is always welcome.

Thanks for the grades, timvp.

Mel_13

12-09-2010, 12:19 AM

One thing about Tiago, he's definitely not soft. He reminds me of Manu, in that he'll take a shot and not give the opponent the satisfaction of admitting it hurts. He just shakes it off and moves on.

SnakeBoy

12-09-2010, 12:30 AM

I think Splitter will get better at rebounding when he gets more comfortable. To me it looks like he's thinking ahead about what to do with the ball before he actually has it in his hands.

DPG21920

12-09-2010, 12:32 AM

Yeah, CBF and I were talking about that. He is tough and scrappy, but not aggressive. There is a major difference.

Nathan89

12-09-2010, 12:33 AM

I give Blair A because he jumped on Lee jump-shot and let him drive straight to the basket. I know some of you guys give him a lot of credit for BBIQ but I don't think his BBIQ is so great. Just another good game against a small team and more stupid mistakes.

Libri

12-09-2010, 12:38 AM

I agree, those 3s by Neal were tough. I think it's clear that Neal doesn't need to set his feet in order to make the three. He can do it on the run. If he continues to make those tough 3s and capture Pop's trust, we might see him in a situation where he will be able to contribute with a clutch shot.

I Heart Ginobili

12-09-2010, 12:47 AM

Udoka B+? Every time the guy has the ball in his hands i cringe because he is so awkward out there, he may have fit in with the old spurs offense, but i don't see it working out for him in the faster paced scheme. cant wait til anderson is back so we can dump his ass

spurs1990

12-09-2010, 01:10 AM

Everyone check out who is number one in Google Trends:

http://www.google.com/trends

ShoogarBear

12-09-2010, 01:17 AM

Shit. . . Aretha Franklin has pancreatic cancer? :depressed

EricB

12-09-2010, 01:19 AM

Uh oh, did Ron Artest go back in the stands again or something?

Fpoonsie

12-09-2010, 01:20 AM

One thing about Tiago, he's definitely not soft. He reminds me of Manu, in that he'll take a shot and not give the opponent the satisfaction of admitting it hurts. He just shakes it off and moves on.

Agreed, and I certainly appreciate that about him, but he needs to go up a LOT stronger. He seems entirely too timid when goin for a lay in or "crashing" (and I use that term loosely, thus, the quotes) the boards. I'm hoping that'll come w/ more playing time and a steady increase in confidence.

Dex

12-09-2010, 01:27 AM

Uh oh, did Ron Artest go back in the stands again or something?

Actually, he said he's donating half of next year's salary to mental health charities, which is probably why he's a hot topic.

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2010/12/08/ron-artests-immeasurable-encore/

lurker23

12-09-2010, 01:30 AM

Rebounding has always been a bit of a weak spot for Splitter, going back a ways. While I'm not too optimistic about that ever changing, you would think that some of his problems would be correctable with steady drilling. We'll see how the rest of the season plays out, but if the off-season were to begin today, I'd hope the coaching staff would devote the summer with Tiago to rebounding drills and fundamentals.

ShoogarBear

12-09-2010, 01:45 AM

Maybe he can go back and look at some old vids of Nazr.

will_spurs

12-09-2010, 03:35 AM

Manu Ginobili A- Passed very well, especially on the break. Defense inconsistent.

So passing well but inconsistent defense and erratic shooting is enough to get Manu an A- grade... how the mighty have fallen (or at least your expectations).

Fireball

12-09-2010, 03:43 AM

Once again I liked what I saw from Splitter last night. He definetely gets right in the middle of everything and does not care if he gets slapped in the face or knocked to the ground. So he is not soft at all. And as someone mentioned in the game thread, he actually gets a good amount of calls (both on offense and defense) for a rookie. As Blair seems to get it rolling, I look forward to the next games and how many minutes Splitter will get against the Hawks etc.

Leonard Curse

12-09-2010, 03:53 AM

tiago is a blue collar center who likes contact, yes hes not getting alot of rebounds but hes forcing alot of turnovers and bangin with the bigs, something we dont really have right now. especially at that age

ManuTastic

12-09-2010, 07:37 AM

I like Splitter b/c he's a real, actual big man out there, doing work in the paint: setting screens, blocking out, scrapping, getting knocked around... but mostly letting Duncan rest. So far so good.

greyforest

12-09-2010, 08:58 AM

i'm glad splitter's finally getting minutes instead of mcdyess. mcdyess is an after-april player, and splitter needs to learn now.

Brazil

12-09-2010, 09:04 AM

Mel_13

12-09-2010, 09:19 AM

Good game, I liked:
- Tiago contributing
- George Hill rebirth confirmation
- TP. After two or three bad games, TP is back, as a whole it has been a great great beginning of season
- Tim Duncan 18 minutes
- Dejuan putting things together

I didn't like
- Ime - I still don't know why we bring this guy back
- GS FG%
- 22 TOs for 24 assists

Those were Golden State's numbers. The Spurs had 31 assists and only 11 TOs.

Pauleta14

12-09-2010, 09:43 AM

So passing well but inconsistent defense and erratic shooting is enough to get Manu an A- grade... how the mighty have fallen (or at least your expectations).

+1!! :lol

It reminds me the talk about TP's same grade after an almost perfect game!

Does it mean timvp expects more from Tony than from Manu?

Hum... :rollin

Anyway, I was happy with Manu's overall game, even when he is not in a great night, he finds ways to be useful to the team.
+ At least he was aware of his "level", didn't force "too much" (for him) and had limited TO...

BRs.Ganso

12-09-2010, 10:10 AM

12 points and 6 rebounds

and i want see Splitter improving his mid range shot.... would be a great upgrade in his game.

Blake

12-09-2010, 10:11 AM

Chris Quinn A+: Made all of his shot, dished the ball well and did not turn the ball over. Possible starting point guard controversy brewing.

jjktkk

12-09-2010, 10:17 AM

Good game, I liked:
- Tiago contributing
- George Hill rebirth confirmation
- TP. After two or three bad games, TP is back, as a whole it has been a great great beginning of season
- Tim Duncan 18 minutes
- Dejuan putting things together

I didn't like
- Ime - I still don't know why we bring this guy back
- GS FG%
- 22 TOs for 24 assists

Udoka is just a band-aid, until Anderson returns from injury. Udoka is not hurting the Spurs right now, so I don't see the need to rant and rave over a guy seeing spot minutes to spell Ginoboli a few minutes here and there during the game.

FuzzyLumpkins

12-09-2010, 10:35 AM

jjktkk

12-09-2010, 11:17 AM

Splitter strikes me as a guy that needs additional time in the weight room. I do not think its his hands rather that he gets outmuscled on these contested rebounds so you see him getting twisted around. Munson was manhandling him on the boards. He gets his hands on them he just cannot hold on real well when the board is contested. JMO

Some others on here have noticed the same thing. I too want to see Splitter a year from now, once hes been in the Spurs S&C program for a full year. Overall, I liked what I saw from Splitter last night.

Brazil

12-09-2010, 11:31 AM

Those were Golden State's numbers. The Spurs had 31 assists and only 11 TOs.

:downspin: You're right I was so like "so what are the negatives of this game ?" I ended to create it. 31 assists and 11 TOs is a very good ratio btw.

thx Mel for catching it

Brazil

12-09-2010, 11:33 AM

Udoka is just a band-aid, until Anderson returns from injury. Udoka is not hurting the Spurs right now, so I don't see the need to rant and rave over a guy seeing spot minutes to spell Ginoboli a few minutes here and there during the game.

I'm not saying Ime is hurting us but for me he is just a waste of time and money, I'd prefer seeing a young prospect of the D League having a chance rather than Ime.

lefty

12-09-2010, 11:48 AM

I'm not saying Ime is hurting us but for me he is just a waste of time and money, I'd prefer seeing a young prospect of the D League having a chance rather than Ime.
:worthy:

Agloco

12-09-2010, 11:48 AM

Agloco

12-09-2010, 11:49 AM

I'm not saying Ime is hurting us but for me he is just a waste of time and money, I'd prefer seeing a young prospect of the D League having a chance rather than Ime.

This, but as another poster stated, I think Ime gets the shaft once Anderson returns.

yavozerb

12-09-2010, 11:50 AM

I'm not saying Ime is hurting us but for me he is just a waste of time and money, I'd prefer seeing a young prospect of the D League having a chance rather than Ime.

This is a championship contending team and right now they need a player who simply is a proven NBA player. Ime may be older and has lost step be he is a seasoned vet who knows what NBA basketball is all about. The spurs have plenty of young players and another is not needed at this time in my opinion. Anderson will hopefully fully recover and be back in january and all this will be moot point anyway.

jjktkk

12-09-2010, 11:52 AM

I'm not saying Ime is hurting us but for me he is just a waste of time and money, I'd prefer seeing a young prospect of the D League having a chance rather than Ime.

Me too. Was hoping that Green would of showed enough to stick. Not familar about any D-League prospects. Can you name someone in the D-League in particular that your watching, or interested in?

Darkwaters

12-09-2010, 11:57 AM

I'm not saying Ime is hurting us but for me he is just a waste of time and money, I'd prefer seeing a young prospect of the D League having a chance rather than Ime.

Eh, I'm apathetic. Ime has no reasonable future with the team once Anderson returns that doesn't involve either a suit or a boot. But for now hes a cheap, experienced player that understands the system. The Spurs took a shot at a different route with Danny Green and he was unable to soak up any reasonable amount of minutes. The next D-League try-out might have not faired any better and we would be forced to play some of the veterans more minutes than we liked.

Honestly, reducing wear and tear on Ginobili (even if only 5 MPG) is more important than taking a flier on a long-shot youth project for a few weeks. Take the player that you'll be more comfortable in that role for the moment, long-term upside aside. Preserve the talent you have and don't get greedy. Udoka offers that, if just barely, better than a no-name prospect.

DocDoc

12-09-2010, 12:16 PM

Good game, I liked:

I didn't like
\- GS FG%

Pop has shifted the defense toward a more steal oriented defense to promte fast break opportunities.

The side effect of this is that missed steal attempts leave opponents better open looks and will lead to a higher FG% than in previous years. They will not get back to the level of some previous Spur's teams.

Doc

Spurs Brazil

12-09-2010, 01:56 PM

Nice to see Blair playing well, I hope he can put together a streak of good games like Hill.

TP attacking all the time is great to watch, we didn't see this TP at all last season

Tiago had a good game. He'll only get better with consistent playing time

DesignatedT

12-09-2010, 02:15 PM

Eh, I'm apathetic. Ime has no reasonable future with the team once Anderson returns that doesn't involve either a suit or a boot. But for now hes a cheap, experienced player that understands the system. The Spurs took a shot at a different route with Danny Green and he was unable to soak up any reasonable amount of minutes. The next D-League try-out might have not faired any better and we would be forced to play some of the veterans more minutes than we liked.

Honestly, reducing wear and tear on Ginobili (even if only 5 MPG) is more important than taking a flier on a long-shot youth project for a few weeks. Take the player that you'll be more comfortable in that role for the moment, long-term upside aside. Preserve the talent you have and don't get greedy. Udoka offers that, if just barely, better than a no-name prospect.

Exactly this.

dbestpro

12-09-2010, 02:16 PM

A shot blocker will alter a shot. A good point guard will make you alter your dribble. What Splitter does is he makes other teams alter their plays. He has a way of blowing up the play without any recognizable stat.

Manufan909

12-09-2010, 02:41 PM

So glad to see in the highlights that Tiago played in the pretty much all the quarters.

And I'm also concerned about his rebounding, which hopefully becomes much better by the end of the season due to his comfort level. But what I'd really like the staff to work with him on in the summer is his FT shot. It has to be the ugliest on the team. I know he is 7' tall, but put some arc on that shit, got damn! Considering what Chip did for Blair in the offseason(29% increase atm from last season), I'm optimistic for what he can do to improve Splitter.

YoMamaIsCallin

12-09-2010, 03:26 PM

I think that Splitter is not so much soft or weak on the boards as he is just getting used to the pace and methods of the NBA. In Euro you don't see rebounders just wailing at the ball and arms of the guy who grabs it first like you do in the NBA, because they call those fouls. He needs to learn to treat the rebound like a fumble recovery in the NFL where it's dog eat dog.

boutons_deux

12-09-2010, 03:31 PM

As pointed out, he's never been much of a rebounder. Jason Kidd is a better rebounder.

yavozerb

12-09-2010, 04:07 PM

As pointed out, he's never been much of a rebounder. Jason Kidd is a better rebounder.

Tiago is an average rebounder for his position. What he does do well is box out his man and does not allow his own man to get to the rebound. What that said he will learn the in's and out's of the NBA game and get better all-around cause of it. Kidd is a great rebounder for a PG, but to say he could outrebound Tiago is just plain stupid.

Blackjack

12-09-2010, 04:29 PM

Tiago's rebounding problems aren't with his hands but legs.

He usually finds himself at or near the right position to grab a defensive board, but he's usually exploding to the ball off of his heels which causes him to rebound with his arms more so than his legs -- ball comes off the rim, defender looks to box out, while the offensive player goes to the board down hill, so to speak.

Tiago boxes out often as a way to impede more than stop cold. It's like throwing a lazy jab that the opponent can counter without any recourse. If the jab doesn't back the guy up or put him on his heels, he's going to keep moving forward and doing damage. And to further the boxing analogy, Splitter goes to the defensive board with his arms the way an amateur boxer or fighter throws a haymaker. If you don't explode from the legs and jump through the ball, you lose your strength at the apex. Just like if you're not keeping your feet planted on the ground while throwing your punches, you're not using all of your power.

I expect Tiago to get a little better, but not much in that respect. He's a good rebounder, and that's fine -- he's still a much better all-around big than the Spurs have had to put alongside Duncan in a long, time.

cutewizard

12-09-2010, 04:54 PM

Splitter has never really been a good rebounder but yeah he sometimes whiffs on boards he should easily get. To me, it looks like he doesn't really jump and go after the ball enough. He's usually off-balance and reaching. And then even if he gets the ball in his grasp for a second, the ball is too far away from his body and it gets knocked away.

I would classify his hands as good in regards to catching but they are pretty weak when it comes to holding onto the ball in traffic.

So what should the Spurs do with him so that he can improve his rebounding skills?

I mean, what kind of training should the Spurs do to him? Since the Spurs have a good low post training regimen, will we see Tiago develop into a pretty rebounding force in the future, say 2 years from now? Can we have your thoughts on this please?

Thank you! It is a pleasure learning from your posts.

dbestpro

12-09-2010, 05:33 PM

So what should the Spurs do with him so that he can improve his rebounding skills?

I mean, what kind of training should the Spurs do to him? Since the Spurs have a good low post training regimen, will we see Tiago develop into a pretty rebounding force in the future, say 2 years from now? Can we have your thoughts on this please?

Thank you! It is a pleasure learning from your posts.

He should learn to juggle so he knows how to grab a basketball whtiout looking at it.

BackHome

12-09-2010, 06:50 PM

Two things I noticed is that I love that Splitter likes to set picks but he tends to not stay with them and runs to the basket. The second things is that Hill needs to do a better job of getting players easy baskets and making the extra pass.

As far as Blair played I think he did better but he could be a much better player if he had an outside shot.