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Nbadan
05-26-2005, 12:49 PM
FBI Records Cite Quran Abuse Allegations
By ROBERT BURNS, AP Military Writer
33 minutes ago


WASHINGTON - Terror suspects at the Guantanamo Bay prison told U.S. interrogators as early as April 2002, just four months after the first detainees arrived, that military guards abused them and desecrated the Quran, declassified FBI records say.

"Their behavior is bad," one detainee is quoted as saying of his guards during an interrogation by an FBI special agent in July 2002. "About five months ago the guards beat the detainees. They flushed a Quran in the toilet."

The statements about guards disrespecting the Quran echo public allegations made many months later by some detainees and their lawyers after prisoners' release from Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. The once-secret FBI documents show a consistency to the allegations and are the first indication that Justice and Defense department officials were aware in early 2002 that detainees were accusing their guards of mistreating the holy book.

Separately on Wednesday, Amnesty International urged the United States to shut down the prison, calling it "the gulag of our time." White House spokesman Scott McClellan said the human rights group's complaints were "unsupported by the facts" and that allegations of mistreatment were being investigated.

more...Yahoo News (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050525/ap_on_re_us/guantanamo_quran_1)

For those of you still paying attention, its becoming more clear now that the Newsweak article about Koran desecration wasn't based on some anonymous source and they would like us to believe, but on confidential FBI memos that have documented cases of Koran desecration since 2002.

Newsweek should demand Scotty McClellon's resignation, but instead they stumble and mumble about how sorry they are, they didn't mean to cause any trouble, and they won't do it again, bla bla bla.


Wed May 25, 2005 05:15 PM ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - An FBI agent wrote in a 2002 document made public on Wednesday that a detainee held at the U.S. naval base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, had accused American jailers there of flushing the Koran down a toilet. The release of the declassified document came the week after the Bush administration denounced as wrong a May 9 Newsweek article that stated U.S. interrogators at Guantanamo had flushed a Koran down a toilet to try to make detainees talk. The magazine retracted the article, which had triggered protests in Afghanistan in which 16 people died.

The newly released document, dated Aug. 1, 2002, contained a summary of statements made days earlier by a detainee, whose name was redacted, in two interviews with an FBI special agent, whose name also was withheld, at the Guantanamo prison for foreign terrorism suspects. The American Civil Liberties Union released the memo and a series of other FBI documents it obtained from the government under court order through the Freedom of Information Act.

"Personally, he has nothing against the United States. The guards in the detention facility do not treat him well. Their behavior is bad. About five months ago, the guards beat the detainees. They flushed a Koran in the toilet," the FBI agent wrote. "The guards dance around when the detainees are trying to pray. The guards still do these things," the FBI agent wrote.

The Pentagon stated last week it had received "no credible and specific allegations" that U.S. personnel at Guantanamo had put a Koran in the toilet. The documents indicated that detainees were making allegations that they had been abused and that the Muslim holy book had been mishandled as early as April 2002, about three months after the first detainees arrived at Guantanamo.

More:Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=8606845&src=rss/topNews)

The Ressurrected One
05-26-2005, 01:23 PM
For those of you still paying attention, its becoming more clear now that the Newsweak article about Koran desecration wasn't based on some anonymous source and they would like us to believe, but on confidential FBI memos that have documented cases of Koran desecration since 2002.
No, wrong again.

Based on confidential FBI memos that have documented detainee allegations of Koran desecration. Big difference.

Nice try though...

No substantiated claims are mentioned in any of those "confidential" FBI memos.

Clandestino
05-26-2005, 01:32 PM
detainees will say anything... fuck these terrorists.. i'd love to piss on a koran in front of one of them... i'm sure our beheaded people would love if some terrorist had just desecrated a bible in front of them.

Nbadan
05-26-2005, 02:25 PM
I tend to believe that if there are enough documented cases of people saying the same thing, from different resources, the allegations must have some shade of truth with it. Also, in a e-mail released today it sure seems like members of the DOD have been plotting for some time to blame Gitmo prisoner abuse on the FBI


DETAINEES-2797B

E-mail (from CTD employee to Frankie Battle) noting that sender is forwarding this EC up the chain of command, concerning alleged impersonation of FBI Agents at GTMO

12/05/03

Same document as Detainee-2797 with the following unredacted: "Of concern, DOD interrogators impersonating Supervisory Special Agents of the FBI told a detainee that the FBI…" and "These tactics have produced no intelligence of a threat neutralization nature to date and CITF believes that techniques have destroyed any chance of prosecuting this detainee." and "If this detainee is ever released or his story made public in any way, DOD interrogators will not be held accountable because these torture techniques were done (by) the "FBI" interrogators. The FBI will (be) left holding the bag before the public."

ACLU.org (http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=18336&c=206)

Nbadan
05-26-2005, 04:16 PM
http://www.creators.com/0515/LK/LK0520g.gif

http://cagle.slate.msn.com/working/050525/thompson.jpg

Nbadan
05-26-2005, 04:28 PM
http://cagle.slate.msn.com/working/050524/horsey.gif

http://cagle.slate.msn.com/working/050523/hajjaj.jpg

The Ressurrected One
05-26-2005, 05:29 PM
I tend to believe that if there are enough documented cases of people saying the same thing, from different resources, the allegations must have some shade of truth with it.
Or, they were taught to say these things if ever captured.

Check the al Qaeda manual. It's out there somewhere...lying about mistreatment is on their to do list if captured.

Nbadan
05-27-2005, 04:34 AM
Or, they were taught to say these things if ever captured.

Check the al Qaeda manual. It's out there somewhere...lying about mistreatment is on their to do list if captured.

After the photographic evidence of prisoner abuse at Abu Gharib, smuggled pics of horrible prisoner treatment in Gitmo, the fact that the adminstration hid the Abu Gharib prisoner abuse scandal for two months before finally being forced to confess that the allegations were true, at least 103 Iraqi prisoners have died while in custody and hundreds more are unaccounted for, our country's willingness to use Ubekistan, Saudi Arabia and other destinations in the region to 'out-source' torture, and the legal 'go ahead' by now Attorney General, Alberto Gonzales to justify the torture of both Afghan and Iraq POWs, desecrating of the Koran seems like child's play.

BronxCowboy
05-27-2005, 06:53 AM
You're wasting your time with these jokers, Dan.

Useruser666
05-27-2005, 09:14 AM
About face Dan! Now you're telling me you believe in FBI memos? HAHAHAHAHAH!

Funny how you believe anything that supports your stance, no matter who it is.

JohnnyMarzetti
05-27-2005, 09:36 AM
The incredible level of ignorance being displayed over this subject is .. incredible.

There were no riots due to the Newsweek story. Period.

Newsweek story/ Qu'ran desecration did not cause any riots.

Newsweek story/ Qu'ran desecration did not cause any deaths.

The lies that a story about Qu'ran desecration caused riots and deaths comes straight from the Whitehouse and never happened.

Get caught up with reality, people! This was reported by our own military on the ground in Afghanistan, and has since been confirmed by the DoD on several occasions. The riots had nothing to do with this report.

The muslim world is very, very upset at the activities of the United States of America. Qu'ran desecration barely registers on the radar against our other sins, and then only amongst the most extreme fanatics.

This propaganda is being disseminated to denigrate the muslim world & dehumanize them, to justify the atrocities we are performing against them.

With approximately 3 million muslims in the US ( http://cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/us.html ), why have there been no demonstrations at all ? All of their protest here have been peaceful.

Clandestino
05-27-2005, 11:33 AM
problem is... the guys are TRAINED terrorists... just like members of our military are trained in what to do and say when captured they are also trained in what to do and say...

JoeChalupa
05-27-2005, 11:34 AM
I don't find it hard to believe at all.

Clandestino
05-27-2005, 11:52 AM
another thing we have to remember. many begin their training at early, early ages. 11 is not too young.

Useruser666
05-27-2005, 12:20 PM
I don't find it unbelievable, just funny that Dan chooses to believe in FBI memos! I'm sure if the FBI came out with a report that said Saddam had WMD, then Dan would say it's all lies and the FBI is a mouth piece for Bush.

Clandestino
05-27-2005, 12:41 PM
yeah, i got a kick out of that too.. every other time, he is like, you can't believe the administration!

mookie2001
05-27-2005, 12:48 PM
it's kind of like when sean hannity quotes something from the new york times that he likes and then he says "look!, it's even in the ny times, and they're as liberal as you can get" but the rest of the time when the times is mentioned he'll just scoff the shit out of them for being liberal

Useruser666
05-27-2005, 01:11 PM
it's kind of like when sean hannity quotes something from the new york times that he likes and then he says "look!, it's even in the ny times, and they're as liberal as you can get" but the rest of the time when the times is mentioned he'll just scoff the shit out of them for being liberal

I guess so, but I don't pay any attention to those people.

Nbadan
05-28-2005, 01:05 AM
another thing we have to remember. many begin their training at early, early ages. 11 is not too young.

Excuse me? When have I ever said anything negative about the FBI? Never. Besides, its not just the FBI memos that back up these accusations, it's the same statements coming from the Red Cross, and from International Journalists including publications in Great Britian, our greatest allied in the war of Iraq. You would think that if the administration really cared about prisoner abuse they would have cracked down long ago on the intelligence officers who supposedly supervised it, I mean lets at least have a meaningful investigation so it looks like we are doing something instead of just throwing a few ignorant enlistees into the lions den.

By the way, in Yesterday's SAs local fishwrap there was an article about Koran abuse on the front page. I particularly liked the way the writer of the article spun the story by stating that although the military had about 10 pretty solid cases of Koran abuse in Gitmo, none of them involved flushing the Koran down the toilet.

ChumpDumper
05-28-2005, 09:45 AM
I do wonder about the details of the confirmed Koran abuse, and why anyone would think this would be an effective interrogation tactic. Would you guys be any closer to cracking if some dude started abusing the Bible?

Nbadan
05-28-2005, 11:24 AM
Its All Newsweaks Fault (http://www.markfiore.com/animation/why01.html) - by Mike Fiore