Tim Duncan Article

[Jason R]

From the day he arrived in the NBA, Tim Duncan affected the San Antonio Spurs in a way few single players have. Arriving on a team that had mustered only 20 wins in a disastrous, injury plagued season just a year before, Tim Duncan took the Spurs on the second largest season turnaround in NBA history. From 20 wins to 56, the Spurs' turnaround is second only to Boston's, who accomplished their rebound after acquiring both Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett. Tim Duncan, as a rookie, did almost the same.

http://www.examiner.com/sports-in-san-antonio

Feedback is appreciated. Trolling and heckling almost expected. :P

[DMC]

Imagine if Boston had acquired TD, or if KG came to SA instead of Boston.

[Danny.Zhu]

Tim Duncan, as a rookie, did almost the same.

You forgot DR.

[DMC]

Yeah, it's easy to forget that David came back from injury, so you effectively went from a team without either TD or DR to a team with both.

[Jason R]

Yeah, I won't lie. I didn't mean to ignore the admiral like that. I still think TD did almost as much individually as KG, Pierce and Allen together. However, you're right. Robinson was still a 20/10 guy in 98. So I didn't give him the credit he really deserved in the article.

[Jason R]

I actually want to do a piece on Robinson next. The problem is he entered the league when I was still young and it'd require a good deal more research. Probably make a good article in the end though.

[SpursDynasty85]

Yeah, I won't lie. I didn't mean to ignore the admiral like that. I still think TD did almost as much individually as KG, Pierce and Allen together. However, you're right. Robinson was still a 20/10 guy in 98. So I didn't give him the credit he really deserved in the article.

Yea because even without Duncan the spurs would have been a 50win team probably.

[Jason R]

Yeah. David probably could have carried that. The surrounding cast is still pretty dreadful though. The names from '98 that stand out to me are Sean Elliott, Avery Johnson, Vinny del Negro, Jaren Jackson and Will Perdue.

Johnson, Elliott and del negro were all 10 ppg guys. Jackson had 9 and Malik 3. I know the guys would have stepped up without Duncan but that would have still been a hard fifty wins.

[poop]

Duncan was a serious MVP candidate his rookie year.

not too often that happens.

[Jason R]

I remember reading an article about Duncan being really upset about Karl Malone beating him. Was really down on himself and spent the Summer training really hard to get better. I always liked that article because it helped me see how serious he was about being the best.

It's the same reason I get upset when people dismiss Duncan out of a top 10 discussion. I'm ok with you not thinking him being top 10, but to just dismiss him out of hand ignores a lot of his work.

FYI the thing in the red bikini is frightening.

[poop]

people talk about Lebron being the greatest hyped up uber-rookie taken in the last 15 years etc etc...Duncan had at least as much impact immediately, was better at building a team around, won ROTY AND was close to MVP his rookie year....

in other words Duncan shat all over Lebron up to this point in their careers.

[Jason R]

I totally agree. Duncan was one of the most extraordinary and NBA ready rookies to ever come into the league. His performance that year was phenomenal.

[Blake]

Yeah, I won't lie. I didn't mean to ignore the admiral like that. I still think TD did almost as much individually as KG, Pierce and Allen together. However, you're right. Robinson was still a 20/10 guy in 98. So I didn't give him the credit he really deserved in the article.

I dont really know, but I'm thinking when Danny.Zhu said you forgot DR, he meant that in David's rookie year, the Spurs at the time had the greatest turnaround from 21 to 56 wins.

The title of your article is off too. The subject matter was nothing more than a history review that the average Spur fan knows backwads and forwards.

I can think of at least 5 or 6 single players than meant more to their franchise than Duncan.....one of those being David. Without David, there is a high chance that the Spurs are not in San Antonio today. There is also a chance that Duncan might have left the Spurs if not for David.

[SpursDynasty85]

people talk about Lebron being the greatest hyped up uber-rookie taken in the last 15 years etc etc...Duncan had at least as much impact immediately, was better at building a team around, won ROTY AND was close to MVP his rookie year....

in other words Duncan shat all over Lebron up to this point in their careers.


I think people were referring to Lebron being the best out of highschool if I'm not mistaken. Which is true. No one dominated like that straight out of highschool..

Course Duncan was the better rookie. Timmy was playing better than DROB as a rookie.

[Jason R]

@Blake I didn't create the title, which also happens to be the one thing I've had people consistently be upset with me over. When I submitted it to the editor, he changed it. I don't agree with it for all the reasons you list.

[jjktkk]

[QUOTE=Jason R;4811530][/ Arriving on a team that had mustered only 20 wins in a disastrous, injury plagued season just a year before, Tim Duncan took the Spurs on the second largest season turnaround in NBA history.QUOTE]

IIRC, don't the Spur's own the top 2 turnaround records? #1 turnaround, the Admiral's rookie year?

[Jason R]

Duncan's is a game better I think, and the Celtics beat the Spurs record by something like four.

[Blake]

Duncan was a serious MVP candidate his rookie year.

not too often that happens.

Duncan finished 5th his rookie year in 97-98.........David finished 7th that same year.

David finished 6th his rookie year in 89-90.....ahead of Hakeem who finished 7th.

[Jason R]

Just confirmed with SI, Duncan's was a game better than DRob's and Celtics were better by six than Duncan's.

[Jason R]

@Blake I also agree with the piece not covering new ground per say, it's a soft piece. I used to do a number of pieces on players like Pistol Pete and such. Since this was essentially an 'audition' piece I went a safe route. I want to cover some more serious parts of the game like number analysis in future pieces, but for now figured this was satisfactory.

[jjktkk]

Just confirmed with SI, Duncan's was a game better than DRob's and Celtics were better by six than Duncan's.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[SpursDynasty85]

Just confirmed with SI, Duncan's was a game better than DRob's and Celtics were better by six than Duncan's.



Not only were they the worst team. They won the friggin title. That was crazy.

[poop]

the celtics should have an * for that record turnaround season (2008) because their team was completely artificially manufactured. they basically got a whole new team overnight...you dont go from 20 years of mediocrity to a league-slaying championship Titan from one season to the next without alot of 'help'.

it was part of the 'agenda' to restore the lakers-celtics rivalry in order to push ratings following years or spurs-pistons dominance. (no coincidence that was also the year the lakers were gifted Gasol and also became title contenders ovenight...coincidence?)

[Jason R]

I don't know about that. I do know Duncan helped DRob do almost the same in his first year. Shows how NBA ready he was.

The only reason I don't like getting into "is the NBA rigged" theories is because that ruined wrestling for me in high school. Once I realized it was all a show (largely because of the Undertaker's antics) I didn't watch anymore. I hope the NBA isn't rigged in that manner and generally don't think it is. Hopefully.

[Fpoonsie]

:lol

http://www.spursreport.com/forums/cantina/105462-hey-management.html

Complaining (or strangely bragging) at SR about getting a thread deleted on ST, deleting MY post which somehow resulted in my banishment from a site I've posted at twice in the past 2 or 3 years, and then asking for feedback on your unsurprisingly mundane article at the same site you were criticizing.

You were a bitch at SR, and you're still one at ST.

[Jason R]

You'll have to explain how I deleted your post.

And no I wasn't bragging. I just find it amusing that considering how many threads go untouched on Spurs Talk, that the one I post in is the one that gets deleted. When all I was asking was if San Antonio Dispatch was a content mill or not. I think that's a fair question to ask, considering the fact that there were no solid statements about compensation. There are a ton of good writers who go unpaid while content mills generate revenue from online advertisements, and that issue goes directly to the reason Mysa.com wants people going to their website instead of reading the posts on other forums. When writers essentially write for free they're generating revenue for investors while they churn the content.

I'm sure you think you're a real internet tough guy because you can put a smiley face in your post, use the word bitch and come off condescending. That's cool, but regardless of what you think you knew or know about me, the truth is you don't know anything. I think I've been the first person to admit to being an ass because that was proper internet decorum on most forums.

You want to toss an insult at my writing? That's fine. I actually have a contract with Blizzard Entertainment, so you're not hurting my feelings. I get paid to do things that I love. I'm actually working towards expanding my exposure. You can stick with the insults. Lord knows I can't resist them sometimes, even when I try. But internet talk is tough. You're not doing anything new, you're just turning along with the rest of the world and doing nothing productive.

[Fpoonsie]

And I just find it amusing that considering how often people bitch about this site over there, when I simply ask a question as to what YOUR purpose was in asking so many questions about a specific part of it, my post gets deleted and I get banned. Whether or not you had anything to do with it really doesn't matter I suppose. I simply thought the hypocrisy "amusing."

And the quick jump to label me an "internet tough guy" is equally hilarious merely because I was able to group all my opinions on your posting style and overall e-demeanor into one word. Your weak defense of your "acting an ass" due to your assumption that that's what the setting called for is laughable. If memory serves, that behavior would get any other poster banned (and sent to ST where they could actually enjoy themselves), but because of whatever arbitrary "pull" you had at the site, you were allowed to condescend and behave however you wanted, and no one could question it, or much less, respond in kind.


Feedback is appreciated.


It's mundane.


:cry I write for Blizzard. You can't hurt my feelings. :cry

Yeah, I was right. You're a bitch.

[ajh18]

Tim Duncan is considered by many to be the greatest PF to ever play. And he still doesn't get the respect he should.

Consider this: If you were a GM entering the draft, and you knew how their careers would play out both in terms of performance and personality, who do you draft as a rookie: Shaq, Lebron, Kobe, KG, or Duncan?

I think the vast majority of GMs would pick Duncan. Consistency. Long period of dominance. No off-court drama. No laziness. Coachable. Plays defense. Great playoff performer. Doesn't choke. For a single year, or to put up stats, you'd pick one of the others. But for a career, to build a team around? You pick Duncan.

All that said, David Robinson is probably the more valuable Spur. David put up stats like all the guys mentioned above. But unlike any of them, he stepped aside when he was still capable of putting up those numbers, for the betterment of the team.

Robinson's humbleness and team-first attitude in those few years formed the foundation of the Spurs culture today. It's what led to a team where community service and character off the court aren't just appreciated, they're expected. It's what set the standard for a star like Ginobili to be willing to come off the bench, and Tim Duncan (who I'm sure could still put up 20-10 today if given the minutes and if he wanted to) is willing to look at the big picture and hand the offensive reins over to Manu and Parker.

I think Tim Duncan would be the first to admit that Robinson helped him to become the type of teammate he is, and Duncan had the personality to be receptive to that. He also had the skill to take our team that next step forward.

Talking about the Spurs as a franchise, the Robinson-Duncan impact and relationship in terms of who the Spurs are, is impossible to ignore.

[DMC]

Tim Duncan is considered by many to be the greatest PF to ever play. And he still doesn't get the respect he should.

Consider this: If you were a GM entering the draft, and you knew how their careers would play out both in terms of performance and personality, who do you draft as a rookie: Shaq, Lebron, Kobe, KG, or Duncan?

I think the vast majority of GMs would pick Duncan. Consistency. Long period of dominance. No off-court drama. No laziness. Coachable. Plays defense. Great playoff performer. Doesn't choke. For a single year, or to put up stats, you'd pick one of the others. But for a career, to build a team around? You pick Duncan.

All that said, David Robinson is probably the more valuable Spur. David put up stats like all the guys mentioned above. But unlike any of them, he stepped aside when he was still capable of putting up those numbers, for the betterment of the team.

Robinson's humbleness and team-first attitude in those few years formed the foundation of the Spurs culture today. It's what led to a team where community service and character off the court aren't just appreciated, they're expected. It's what set the standard for a star like Ginobili to be willing to come off the bench, and Tim Duncan (who I'm sure could still put up 20-10 today if given the minutes and if he wanted to) is willing to look at the big picture and hand the offensive reins over to Manu and Parker.

I think Tim Duncan would be the first to admit that Robinson helped him to become the type of teammate he is, and Duncan had the personality to be receptive to that. He also had the skill to take our team that next step forward.

Talking about the Spurs as a franchise, the Robinson-Duncan impact and relationship in terms of who the Spurs are, is impossible to ignore.

Kobe: One more ring. Championships mean everything especially to GMs.

[ajh18]

Kobe: One more ring. Championships mean everything especially to GMs.

Haha, I wasn't suggesting you get the surrounding cast to go with them. Horry has more rings than either, but I doubt the GMs would pick him first.

I would argue that you replace Kobe with Duncan on the Lakers all these years, they have more titles than they do now... with less drama, trade demands, and throwing teammates under the bus.

[DMC]

I actually want to do a piece on Robinson next. The problem is he entered the league when I was still young and it'd require a good deal more research. Probably make a good article in the end though.

I met David a few times in his rookie year. Once he was at a local scarfing establishment and this 8 year old kid wanted to interview him for a school project. David sat down with this kid an proceeded to be interviewed. There were no cameras for photo ops. It was pure David. He's a great guy.

[DMC]

Haha, I wasn't suggesting you get the surrounding cast to go with them. Horry has more rings than either, but I doubt the GMs would pick him first.

I would argue that you replace Kobe with Duncan on the Lakers all these years, they have more titles than they do now... with less drama, trade demands, and throwing teammates under the bus.
It doesn't work quite like that. You are saying this particular brick holds up the building, but any brick removed and the building crumbles. Sure Duncan holds it up very well, better than almost any other brick in history, but it still requires all the bricks else Duncan is just a talented 1st rounder who ended up playing for a team that wasted him.

Also, don't pose that kind of a question if you don't want that kind of an answer. You cannot sculpt the question in such a way as to get the answer you want by doing it that way. You have to say "If you had to choose one, and you knew Duncan was better, which would you choose?"

[ajh18]

It doesn't work quite like that. You are saying this particular brick holds up the building, but any brick removed and the building crumbles. Sure Duncan holds it up very well, better than almost any other brick in history, but it still requires all the bricks else Duncan is just a talented 1st rounder who ended up playing for a team that wasted him.

Also, don't pose that kind of a question if you don't want that kind of an answer. You cannot sculpt the question in such a way as to get the answer you want by doing it that way. You have to say "If you had to choose one, and you knew Duncan was better, which would you choose?"

In no way did I ever imply that Duncan did it on his own. No player has. The question was which of those players mentioned you would choose to build a team around, from scratch, from the beginning of their careers.

I was arguing that because of his consistency, post-season play, and attitude on and off the court, GMs would pick Duncan out of the players mentioned... including Kobe. Some people might feel differently, and thats fine. But I don't think that simply because he has one more ring, a GM would pick Kobe as the foundation of a team over Duncan. I think if drafting either guy as a rookie, most would choose Tim. But that's my opinion.

[DMC]

In no way did I ever imply that Duncan did it on his own. No player has. The question was which of those players mentioned you would choose to build a team around, from scratch, from the beginning of their careers.

I was arguing that because of his consistency, post-season play, and attitude on and off the court, GMs would pick Duncan out of the players mentioned... including Kobe. Some people might feel differently, and thats fine. But I don't think that simply because he has one more ring, a GM would pick Kobe as the foundation of a team over Duncan. I think if drafting either guy as a rookie, most would choose Tim. But that's my opinion.

I understand perfectly what you're saying. What I am saying is that Duncan TODAY comes with the other bricks that got him there. The same is true for Kobe.

You cannot simply remove all the coaches, teammates and other factors and call Tim better than Kobe. You are trying to have your cake and eat it too. Building around two rookies, Tim or Kobe... anyone would pick Tim because Tim was a 1st overall draft pick. Kobe wasn't. Olawakondi (sp?) would get the nod over Kobe in that race. The problem is that you cannot take these two unknowns and add them as knowns, but select them again without those attributes and factors that make them knowns.

So basically, if it came down to Duncan or Kobe, which would you want to build a team around? Since you are on a Spurs forum, I would think it would be Duncan for you. Not many build teams around guards.

[Seventyniner]

I understand perfectly what you're saying. What I am saying is that Duncan TODAY comes with the other bricks that got him there. The same is true for Kobe.

You cannot simply remove all the coaches, teammates and other factors and call Tim better than Kobe. You are trying to have your cake and eat it too. Building around two rookies, Tim or Kobe... anyone would pick Tim because Tim was a 1st overall draft pick. Kobe wasn't. Olawakondi (sp?) would get the nod over Kobe in that race. The problem is that you cannot take these two unknowns and add them as knowns, but select them again without those attributes and factors that make them knowns.

So basically, if it came down to Duncan or Kobe, which would you want to build a team around? Since you are on a Spurs forum, I would think it would be Duncan for you. Not many build teams around guards.

I think the point is that if you ask a GM to start a franchise with either Kobe or Duncan as they came into the league, but knowing how their careers have gone so far, most would still pick Duncan, even though Kobe has one more ring. Kobe has had better surrounding talent, better coaching, and an owner willing to spend anything it takes and yet still is just ahead of Duncan.

[ajh18]

I think the point is that if you ask a GM to start a franchise with either Kobe or Duncan as they came into the league, but knowing how their careers have gone so far, most would still pick Duncan, even though Kobe has one more ring. Kobe has had better surrounding talent, better coaching, and an owner willing to spend anything it takes and yet still is just ahead of Duncan.

This is exactly the point. :toast

[Blake]

Consider this: If you were a GM entering the draft, and you knew how their careers would play out both in terms of performance and personality, who do you draft as a rookie: Shaq, Lebron, Kobe, KG, or Duncan?

I think the vast majority of GMs would pick Duncan. Consistency. Long period of dominance. No off-court drama. No laziness. Coachable. Plays defense. Great playoff performer. Doesn't choke. For a single year, or to put up stats, you'd pick one of the others. But for a career, to build a team around? You pick Duncan.


The majority of GMs would pick Kobe, imo.

[dunkman]

the celtics should have an * for that record turnaround season (2008) because their team was completely artificially manufactured. they basically got a whole new team overnight...you dont go from 20 years of mediocrity to a league-slaying championship Titan from one season to the next without alot of 'help'.

it was part of the 'agenda' to restore the lakers-celtics rivalry in order to push ratings following years or spurs-pistons dominance. (no coincidence that was also the year the lakers were gifted Gasol and also became title contenders ovenight...coincidence?)

The Celtics paid a fair price for KG and Ray Allen. From 2003 the Celtics were purchased by another group that managed the team much better.

The Lakers on the other hand mysteriously got Gasol, Ariza and Fisher for almost nothing.

[ChuckD]

IIRC, don't the Spur's own the top 2 turnaround records? #1 turnaround, the Admiral's rookie year?


No. Boston trio is number one, TD rookie year #2, and DRob rookie year #3

[XMas TRoLL]

Hey Management...
There's a certain site we don't talk about here, but that's not the point at hand. What's interesting is that I managed to get a thread deleted from the site. You know the sort of content that gets posted on there. Yet somehow I managed to do something so royally FUBAR that I got the entire thread deleted. Of course, somehow it would be me that manages to get something like that done.


Why do you have to say "a certain site"? it's called SpursTalk your from SpursReport and there is also SpursClub used to be SpursCentral (the site you abandoned) I don't know why you guys have to still act like it's some sort of 6th grade cafeteria. DizzG,mouse,LadySpurKori, they all moved on and matured but you and your 12 posters at SR insist on living in the past. It's your right I guess but when will you and SR move forward, or better yet will you ever?

[DMC]

Dig up threads much?

[Agloco]

The majority of GMs would pick Kobe, imo.

Not sure here. I'm kinda thinking that most would go with Shaq.

[mouse]

I find it amusing that considering how many threads go untouched on Spurs Talk, that the one I post in is the one that gets deleted.





I never liked deleted topics no matter what site I go to. Lock the bitch but deleting it is really immature and shows that the webmaster has something to hide or cover up.
I know It's the moderator and webmasters rights to do so but it is what it is when you do it. Look what all that over censorship did to SR.

I know at one time or another I will eventually piss off every human being on planet earth but the SR krew take holding a grudge to levels not seen since the Jews of Germany.

The sad part is most of the drama was really minor and not worth years of bitterness not seen since NAPSTER was shut down.

I know people that have forgiven DWI drivers who killed one of there loved ones and yet SR can't get over something someone posted back in 1999?

I actually now after all these years find this shit fascinating and mind boggling and have it up there on the top of my list of unexplained shit along with WTC7 and Stonehenge.

:lmao