wth happened to raising the bar

[eyeh8u]

Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate

[BUMP]

Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate

Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate


Now i am not a man who like regulation or big brother but the nba forum is becoming a Cesspit , non nba threads, wiki spams, we need the police or some vigilantes to regulate

[YoungB]

The best regulators were all banned bro.

[BlackSwordsMan]

The only regulator is mama kori.

[Ace]

http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/3468/244336-bannanas_super.jpg

[narmerguy]

I know. There's no decent basketball takes anymore so it's only worth coming if you get off on watching the triangle of stupid mk, laker trolls, and lost spurs spouting the same shit and making the same stupid personal attacks. If you're lucky koolaid forget to make 15 homosexual comments in one thread but usually not.

[DesignatedT]

the nba board fuckin sucks now

[Koolaid_Man]

the nba board fuckin sucks now


not from where I sit...it's fucking fabulous...and gettin betta ere day...

[Pistons < Spurs]

the nba board fuckin sucks now

Agreed. It's been on the decline for a long time. I hoped things would change for the better, but it's only gotten worse.

[lefty]

We have reached a plateau

Now we need a new bar that is actually high

[j.dizzle]

:lmao This forum is entertainment , who the fuck actually talks about basketball on this site anymore hahaha. I come on here when I feel like laughing at ppl getting their troll on.:lol

[Fpoonsie]

People that keep complaining about the quality of the NBA Forum are MORE than welcome to contribute something to offset what they deem such "trash."

[DPG21920]

Well great takes like Manu for Roddy B/Caron is a lateral move keep the glimmering hope alive that this board can recover tbh.

[DeadlyDynasty]

ghey

[Leetonidas]

lakaluva is singlehandedly destroying the NBA forum

[VBM]

There are other forums out there. This isn't worth complaining about, imo...

[YoungB]

:lmao DPG is the self proclaimed bar raiser, everything else is a "terrible argument" :rollin

Rememba det one time gtown got swole, and you covered your eyes and said "this isn't happening this isn't happening" until he went away? crofl

[Roddy Beaubois]

Well great takes like Manu for Roddy B/Caron is a lateral move keep the glimmering hope alive that this board can recover tbh.

:lmao god damn bro

[Kori Ellis]

The NBA forum has been horrible for four years.

Only you guys can do something about it. Instead of starting whining threads and responding to trolls, you can step up your game and post about basketball.

You guys whine like crazy that you are sick of Lakaluva and Kool, but how many threads per week do you guys start calling them out/talking about them? If you hate the trolls, ignore them. Put them on your ignore list and try to contribute. If you aren't contributing positively yourself, then you have nothing to whine about.

[HarlemHeat37]

Kori, have you given any consideration to Mono and I becoming co-mods?..

[Kori Ellis]

Kori, have you given any consideration to Mono and I becoming mods?..

None whatsoever.

[HarlemHeat37]

None whatsoever.

:lol:lol:lol

Not even an audition?..

[KapitanTutan]

seriously HH?

[HarlemHeat37]

seriously HH?

What's up, b?..

[KapitanTutan]

What's up, b?..

you wanna moderate this shithole bro? :lol

[ChrisHansen]

Well great takes like Manu for Roddy B/Caron is a lateral move keep the glimmering hope alive that this board can recover tbh.

Hi midget

How did BUMP's nuts taste that fateful day?

lol dunked on

[HarlemHeat37]

Maybe you've willingly admitted it was stupid to say so, but you were also on the Bosh > Amare bandwagon this summer. That alone disqualifies your mod eligibility.

I was against the Amare signing for the Knicks for the max, but I've always said Bosh and Amare was a toss-up depending on when you asked me, and my most recent pre-season post about it said that Amare was better than Bosh..

That last post was during October, before the season, it was in the Fox Sports- Top 10 Power Forwards thread:


I would go..

1- Gasol
2- Nowitzki
3- Duncan
4- Stoudemire
5- Bosh
6- Garnett
7- Boozer
8- Randolph
9- Lee
10- Smith[

So I had Amare ahead of Bosh, even before he went on his tear this season, so I don't know why you're reaching here..

[Trill Clinton]

None whatsoever.

:lol Gotdayum

[koriwhat]

Kori, have you given any consideration to Mono and I becoming co-mods?..

are you 13? a control freak? or just someone with too much time on his hands? wtf "i wanna be a mod!"

[Ace]

are you 13? a control freak? or just someone with too much time on his hands? wtf "i wanna be a mod!"
Koriwhat trolling as usual

[DeadlyDynasty]

Kori is cold. Not frigid, but cold.

[koriwhat]

Koriwhat trolling as usual

i'm not trolling.

[HarlemHeat37]

are you 13? a control freak? or just someone with too much time on his hands? wtf "i wanna be a mod!"

You're out of your element, don't even try..

I'll private msg you if I need some medical care from a male nurse, otherwise, we have nothing to talk about it..

[frodo]

are you 13? a control freak? or just someone with too much time on his hands? wtf "i wanna be a mod!"

lol calf tats gone mad :lol

[koriwhat]

You're out of your element, don't even try..

I'll private msg you if I need some medical care from a male nurse, otherwise, we have nothing to talk about it..

13 yrs old huh? i thought so... your lame attempts at trolling me confirm your adolescence.

[frodo]

13 yrs old huh? i thought so... your lame attempts at trolling me confirm your adolescence.

yeah he is 13yrs old really as far as i know, he just found some hair growing on his calfs recently, some typical change that happens in puberty.

[koriwhat]

yeah he is 13yrs old really as far as i know, he just found some hair growing on his calfs recently, some typical change that happens in puberty.

pathetic! did you happen to read the title of this thread? yeah, raise the bar already. damn!

stop bringing it like dane crook and get your pryor on!

[HarlemHeat37]

:lol having less education than a 13-year old..

[Ace]

Koriwhat single handily might be bringing down the NBA forum with his trolling tbh

[Ace]

I'm not Spur fan black anymore
:elephant

[koriwhat]

Koriwhat single handily might be bringing down the NBA forum with his trolling tbh

for someone who contributes jackshit to this forum you sure do have a lot to say about me. what gives? how about contribute or shut the fuck up and stop pointing fingers? i'm not trolling no one and very rarely do if at all, you on the other hand...

look in the mirror bitch!

[frodo]

:lol having less education than a 13-year old..
at least he learned some skills of bickering, that combined with calf tats are enough to make him an asshole that he wants to be.

[koriwhat]

trolls being trolls...

"boo hoo we bitch at you and act like dicks to you but you're the asshole... boo hoo!"

[KapitanTutan]

lol calftats

[Ace]

for someone who contributes jackshit to this forum you sure do have a lot to say about me. what gives? how about contribute or shut the fuck up and stop pointing fingers? i'm not trolling no one and very rarely do if at all, you on the other hand...

look in the mirror bitch!

Koriwhat is trolling me :cry

[HarlemHeat37]

You're still retarded for saying it's a toss up, you Lebanese barbarian.

It was clearly a toss-up in years past IMO..

Doesn't matter, I still said Amare was better..I want an apology, tbh..no shame in admitting you were wrong..

[DPG21920]

:lmao DPG is the self proclaimed bar raiser, everything else is a "terrible argument" :rollin

Rememba det one time gtown got swole, and you covered your eyes and said "this isn't happening this isn't happening" until he went away? crofl

Everything else or just in that thread with his terrible arguments. Unless you can link to other times then please shhh, girl.

[DPG21920]

Tbh I find it ironic you're calling these arguments terrible when they appear way more correct than yours. Anyone who ever tried to argue "Bosh > Amare" could not have possibly used a good argument doing so.

This is completely false. Completely. I have already proven this with my arguments compared to yours. I used advanced metrics and facts. You have used nothing to disprove that at the time the argument was made that it was not close.

Until you can go into great detail and prove definitively with statistical evidence that at the the time the argument was made they were not close as players, I would appreciate it if you stopped breathing in my direction.

[DPG21920]

:lmao That is what I thought. Until you step your game up, you need to stop posting.

[DPG21920]

That is what I thought, girl.

[DPG21920]

:lol Being able to use other peoples "per the usual" but not statistical analysis

[DPG21920]

Also, if you could show me FACTS that I do not watch the games I would appreciate it. I only deal with facts and things that can be backed up tangibly.

lol trying to troll me.

[DPG21920]

Another terrible argument from you girl.

[DPG21920]

lol small>retarded

lol spur fan>retarded Mav fan

lol getting so mad, you need to chill bro.

[DPG21920]

Why are you getting so mad :lol?

Just relax, learn to:



This is completely false. Completely. I have already proven this with my arguments compared to yours. I used advanced metrics and facts. You have used nothing to disprove that at the time the argument was made that it was not close.

Until you can go into great detail and prove definitively with statistical evidence that at the the time the argument was made they were not close as players, I would appreciate it if you stopped breathing in my direction.

[ohmwrecker]

Statistically, Amare is clearly better than Bosh, but what seals the deal for me is imagining Bosh and Amare switching teams . . . Miami would be unarguably better, the Knicks would be about the same or worse.

[DPG21920]

That is true right now.

But what about the actual argument, which was that the players were comparable before this year.

[DPG21920]

At the moment, no. But I already said that, so again, you are a retard. You fail to comprehend the most basic of arguments.

[ohmwrecker]

It's hard to say because Bosh has struggled as a third option, but I would give Stoudemire the edge in almost every scenario. Just my opinion. Bosh is a really good player, but Amare is a freak of nature. Sorry to throw a wrench in the works here.

[DPG21920]

It's hard to say because Bosh has struggled as a third option, but I would give Stoudemire the edge in almost every scenario. Just my opinion. Bosh is a really good player, but Amare is a freak of nature. Sorry to throw a wrench in the works here.

Do you think they were comparable players talent wise, statistically and any other way you want to measure before this year? Bosh was never a 3rd option BEFORE THIS YEAR.

[DPG21920]

OK so lets go over this. Right now, Amare is clearly a better player than Bosh. Several months ago, Amare and Bosh were the exact same player they both are now. Simple logic states that Amare was a better player back then as well.

Players get better. Players mature. Situations change. There are many times where players are close, then one goes one way and one goes another.

You would know this if you watched games outside of the Mavs where all players stay the same.

[ohmwrecker]

Do you think they were comparable players talent wise, statistically and any other way you want to measure before this year? Bosh was never a 3rd option BEFORE THIS YEAR.

Bosh put up better numbers, obviously, as the #1 option on the Raptors. Bosh is more skilled finesse player, but Amare is just a phenomenal athlete which, for me, is almost always preferable. Bosh might be slightly better defensively, but the separation isn't that wide.

[DPG21920]

So you are saying there were comparable at that time?

[DPG21920]

Tbh, it's funny the pussy footed mav krew members like mono and stretch like to deny the fact DPG is a retard because they're BFFs with him so they let him make these comments. Nothing against DPG here, just funny how much of a joke the mav krew is.

I know more about your team than you do, so don't bark up that tree unless you really feel like looking silly.

Making a joke is not the same as being serious, but for a retard, that is apparently not self evident.

[ohmwrecker]

So you are saying there were comparable at that time?

Me? Statistically, yes.

[DPG21920]

You would know this if you watched games outside of the Mavs where all players stay the same.


Tbh, it's funny the pussy footed mav krew members like mono and stretch like to deny the fact DPG is a retard because they're BFFs with him so they let him make these comments. Nothing against DPG here, just funny how much of a joke the mav krew is.


I know more about your team than you do, so don't bark up that tree unless you really feel like looking silly.

Making a joke is not the same as being serious, but for a retard, that is apparently not self evident.


I wasn't talking about the Mavs. I was talking about the Mav Krew. Idk what the fuck your comment even meant.

Woah, relax bro.

I will break it down for you so you don't have to get upset.

I made a joke about the Mavs as noted in the first quoted phrase above.

You then said the Mav Krew is "pussy footed" because they say I'm awesome even though I talk about the Mavs in a way which is false.

I then said I clearly know more about the team you root for than you do and that my joke should not have been taken serious because it was in fact a joke.

You then became enraged because you could not grasp what happened and I explained it.

[DPG21920]

Me? Statistically, yes.

Ok. Thank you.

[DPG21920]

So you are saying Mav fans are retarded? I rarely ever talk bad about the Mavs unless it is a joke. I respect the Mavs. I hate them, but I respect them and give my honest opinion on them.

That is why they like me.

Now you are mad that your fanbase likes me more than you? :lol

Let me guess, you don't care about that even though you brought it up unprovoked :lol

[DPG21920]

Have you ever been wrong?

[DPG21920]

How can the Mav people respect you when you have been wrong? Because you didn't say you were mad at them for liking me because I wouldn't admit I was wrong (which my argument overall wasn't at the time, and I did admit Amare was better now, so again you are retarded), you said you can't understand how they can like someone who was wrong about something, which you said you yourself have been numerous times.

[DPG21920]

I can link to me saying Amare is better now. So again, you are wrong.

You didn't answer my question though.

[DPG21920]

My argument has been clear the whole time. When the argument was made I said I liked Bosh better but that the gap was small.

I now said Amare is better.

What about that is wrong? Please explain using facts and statistical analysis.

[DPG21920]

My argument has been clear the whole time. When the argument was made I said I liked Bosh better but that the gap was small.

I now said Amare is better.

What about that is wrong? Please explain using facts and statistical analysis.

[DPG21920]

No, until you provide your factual, analytical based argument that disproves what I said (that the gap between the two was small), I will not continue to answer your questions.

Please also address this:

How can the Mav people respect you when you have been wrong? Because you didn't say you were mad at them for liking me because I wouldn't admit I was wrong (which my argument overall wasn't at the time, and I did admit Amare was better now, so again you are retarded), you said you can't understand how they can like someone who was wrong about something, which you said you yourself have been numerous times.

[DPG21920]

:lol You can't. Thanks for playing. Now please stop.

I cannot believe a fan base as proud as the Mavs would like someone who cannot make a legit argument but will go to such great lengths to call scoreboard on an argument that is not their own. Especially when they themselves have professed to be wrong numerous times and when the person they are arguing with admitted they were wrong about which player was better.

But you probably can't address that either.

[spursncowboys]

Since Aug, who has been banned? For what reasons?

[YoungB]

:lol Neither player has changed much over the past few months. It's stupid to say that it was a toss up a few months ago, but now Amare's clearly better. He's been better all along, you just weren't smart enough to see it until it got exposed openly.

[DPG21920]

Well the stats proved otherwise unless you can show some numbers to back that up.

[YoungB]

To me, Amare is more dangerous because he has more of an offensive repertoire, Bosh reminds me of a very poor man's Dirk who mostly scores off jumpers. Amare commands double teams and attention, which is why there are 6 Knicks players averaging double figures. Amare also shoots the ball at a much higher fg%, 54% compared to 49%. Slightly better rebounder, better shot blocker this year, and the gap is only going to widen as Amare seems to be focused on these aspects of his game finally and getting better. Bosh, as the only talented big man on the Heat, still can't manage to grab more than 7 rebounds or a half a block a game. Neither is very effective without the ball in their hand, but at least Amare is better suited as a number one option and can be effective on the pick and roll as well as the iso. I've said it all along and it finally came true whenever Bosh moved to Miami, the dude was overrated and only puts up those nice numbers when he's getting all the touches. His game just doesn't seem to correlate with higher wins for his team. In every full season Amare played in which he was healthy, his win shares are MUCH higher than Bosh's.

[YoungB]

Aside from microfracture surgery and the Shaq debacle, Amare has put up win share totals of 14.6, 14.6, 11.2, and 10.7 over the past several years. Compared to Bosh, who put up 10.1, 9.8, 9.7, 9.6, and 9.6 his best years.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/stoudam01.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html

[DPG21920]

Sure, but how does that disprove my argument that no matter whom you liked, the gap was close?

Also, Bosh is the better rebounder for their career. 8.9 Amare, 9.3 for Bosh.

[Cane]

To me the only real drawbacks to having Amar'e instead of Bosh include his injury history and brain-dead IQ defensively (Bosh is better than Amar'e here although not by much). However's Amar'es portfolio's worth of serious injuries is enough to pass on him for the Heat especially when you also consider intangibles like Bosh's relations with the King and Flash.

Bosh hasn't been as impressive as Amar'e was whether its in the playoffs or reg season. Amar'e DESTROYED a prime Duncan time and time again and in the 2nd half of the last season Amar'e was playing like he was the best big in the league. He carried the Suns to a high seed in the competitive West while teams like the Spurs, OKC, and Blazers were struggling just to get a low seed.

As players and impact goes, Amar'e > Bosh. However his injuries are enough to shy away from seriously investing in him especially for the deal the Knicks had to make unless you're the PHX Suns. Its a crying shame that the Suns didn't match on the Amar'e offer since I'm in the camp where a ballclub should keep its WCF core especially with Nash and Hill no longer being regular season superstars.

[YoungB]

Sure, but how does that disprove my argument that no matter whom you liked, the gap was close?

It proves that it really wasn't close, Amare's play was leading to more wins for his team which is the ultimate goal in basketball. It took a trained eye to see that Bosh was a product of the system prior to this year, and now it's being exposed. Just as people said Amare was a product of Nash, and DoK repeatedly said he wasn't, but low and behold Amare is beasting this year on the Knicks without him. Just admit you were wrong, no harm no foul.

[DPG21920]

Good start, win shares is a nice way to back up something you say. Now obviously there are multiple things and statistics to look at such as PER, per minute numbers, usage rates, teammates usage rates, pace and system.

Still, none of that proves that at the time of the argument, they were comparable players statistically.

This year, Amare has taken a step forward and I have admitted he is better than Bosh. So I really don't get the beef with me.

I never said Bosh>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Amare.

[Cane]

Bosh is better than Amare defensively :lmao, how?

Not by much. Seems to have better fundamentals and stays in front of his man better but not by much. Smh @ Amar'e saying he never learned defense to the media

[DPG21920]

The gap appeared close back then just because Bosh was in a lucky scenario where he got to be a stat whore, now that Bosh is on a team that actually cares about winning the wideness of the gap has been exposed. Believe it or not, there's more to basketball than stats John Hollinger.

You mean like Amare with Dantoni now and today? Calling Bosh a stat whore and not Amare and using the system/scenario argument is damn foolish here, damn foolish.

[DPG21920]

Bosh is better than Amare defensively :lmao, how?

You watching Nene destroy him.

[HarlemHeat37]

Bosh isn't even close to the same player he was last year, he's clearly regressed as the 3rd option, it's going to take him a while to adjust(he's gotten better as the season has progressed though, to be fair)..

To say Bosh scores off just jump shots is silly..Bosh was top 5 in the NBA last year in points in the paint..that's probably the main regression in his game..

2009-2010
Bosh: 54% of his shot attempts were jump shots, 46% of his offense was in the paint..
Amare: 51% of his shot attempts were jump shots, 49% of his offense was in the paint..

A notable difference is that 61% of Amare's offense was assisted, while only 50% of Bosh's offense was assisted..

Bosh averaged more FTA per game than Stoudemire, despite posting a similar usage..so, again, he clearly wasn't just a jump shooter, not even close..he was one of the best players in the NBA at drawing free throws in the paint last year, which hasn't been the case this year, due to lack of aggressiveness and adjusting to a completely new role that he has never played..

Using Win Shares as an argument is weak..Bosh has more Win Shares this year than Stoudemire does, and he's had a better WS/48 than Stoudemire for the last few years..speaks volumes, since Stoudemire's teams have been better, and WS is heavily based on a team success..

Saying it wasn't a toss-up, when pretty much everybody that followed the NBA said it was, it just stupid..there's no argument that shows that it wasn't a toss-up..

I would take Amare too, because he's a proven playoff performer that plays more aggressively on a consistent basis..however, as #1 options, it was clearly a toss-up..

[YoungB]

Still, none of that proves that at the time of the argument, they were comparable players statistically.

It only appeared that way. Now if Amare had made leaps and bounds this offseason and everyone was raving how much better he was and developed a Dirk-like jumper and he was obviously a much better player than before, then you might have an argument. But the point is, Amare's game was translating to more wins for his team (win shares) which is the ultimate goal in basketball to me. Nothing else should really matter.

[DPG21920]

Defensive win shares this year:

Amare: .9

Bosh: 1.7

NYK: 18th in defense

MIA: 1st

[DPG21920]

Bosh isn't even close to the same player he was last year, he's clearly regressed as the 3rd option, it's going to take him a while to adjust(he's gotten better as the season has progressed though, to be fair)..

To say Bosh scores off just jump shots is silly..Bosh was top 5 in the NBA last year in points in the paint..that's probably the main regression in his game..

2009-2010
Bosh: 54% of his shot attempts were jump shots, 46% of his offense was in the paint..
Amare: 51% of his shot attempts were jump shots, 49% of his offense was in the paint..

A notable difference is that 61% of Amare's offense was assisted, while only 50% of Bosh's offense was assisted..

Bosh averaged more FTA per game than Stoudemire, despite posting a similar usage..so, again, he clearly wasn't just a jump shooter, not even close..he was one of the best players in the NBA at drawing free throws in the paint last year, which hasn't been the case this year, due to lack of aggressiveness and adjusting to a completely new role that he has never played..

Using Win Shares as an argument is weak..Bosh has more Win Shares this year than Stoudemire does, and he's had a better WS/48 than Stoudemire for the last few years..speaks volumes, since Stoudemire's teams have been better, and WS is heavily based on a team success..

Saying it wasn't a toss-up, when pretty much everybody that followed the NBA said it was, it just stupid..there's no argument that shows that it wasn't a toss-up..

I would take Amare too, because he's a proven playoff performer that plays more aggressively on a consistent basis..however, as #1 options, it was clearly a toss-up..

I agree, they are trying to take things in isolation and they are using arguments that don't make sense because they lack understanding of the players and the stats.


What does that have to do with Bosh? Millsap destroyed Bosh way worse than Nene "destroyed Amare" (btw, Nene has been a ghost in the 2nd half).

See the following post.



Defensive win shares this year:

Amare: .9

Bosh: 1.7

NYK: 18th in defense

MIA: 1st



It only appeared that way. Now if Amare had made leaps and bounds this offseason and everyone was raving how much better he was and developed a Dirk-like jumper and he was obviously a much better player than before, then you might have an argument. But the point is, Amare's game was translating to more wins for his team (win shares) which is the ultimate goal in basketball to me. Nothing else should really matter.

You still don't get it.

[YoungB]

A notable difference is that 61% of Amare's offense was assisted, while only 50% of Bosh's offense was assisted

This is where advanced stats can lead to bullshit. Say a guy like Ray Allen moves really well without the ball, coming off screens and using picks, as well as backdoors to get his points. Hence he's going to have a lot of his offense assisted technically, even though it shouldn't be a knock on his game at all.

[DPG21920]

Bosh higher win share this year than Amare.

[YoungB]

You still don't get it.

No you don't get it. You admit Amare is now the better player, although nothing much changed in either of their games. Amare was always better, you just weren't smart enough to see it before. Perceptions can be tricky.


Bosh higher win share this year than Amare.

The year is young?

[HarlemHeat37]

I don't even like Bosh, as I've said many times..

To say he's the same player as previous years is false, though..

The main difference is that he went from a guy that shot around 50% of his shots as jump shots and 50% of his game inside the paint, to this year, where he's shooting 75% of his shots as jump shots and only 25% of his game inside the paint..

He's clearly adjusting to a role he has never played before..

My point isn't that Bosh would be as good as Amare in a difference situation..I think Amare is better, as I said before the season..my point is that it was clearly a toss-up before this season, as pretty much everybody said at the time..

[DPG21920]

This is where advanced stats can lead to bullshit. Say a guy like Ray Allen moves really well without the ball, coming off screens and using picks, as well as backdoors to get his points. Hence he's going to have a lot of his offense assisted technically, even though it shouldn't be a knock on his game at all.

It's not a knock on Amare. It is shows that Bosh had to do a lot of things himself with all the focus on him. He had to create.

He didn't have a guy like Nash helping out and drawing attention. Nash didn't make Amare, but he helped. Same with the system and pace.

[DPG21920]

No you don't get it. You admit Amare is now the better player, although nothing much changed in either of their games. Amare was always better, you just weren't smart enough to see it before. Perceptions can be tricky.



The year is young?

You still don't get it. My argument was that I like Bosh but that the gap was close. Is that wrong? If not, STFU.

[HarlemHeat37]

This is where advanced stats can lead to bullshit. Say a guy like Ray Allen moves really well without the ball, coming off screens and using picks, as well as backdoors to get his points. Hence he's going to have a lot of his offense assisted technically, even though it shouldn't be a knock on his game at all.

I fully agree that Amare is better at moving off the ball than Bosh..my point is that before this season, we only knew Bosh as a #1 option, so I was comparing the 2 as primary options for their teams, where they both had the ball a lot..

I'm not arguing for Bosh being as good as Stoudemire now..I'm arguing why I thought it was a toss-up in the past..

[YoungB]

It's not a knock on Amare. It is shows that Bosh had to do a lot of things himself with all the focus on him. He had to create.

He didn't have a guy like Nash helping out and drawing attention. Nash didn't make Amare, but he helped. Same with the system and pace.

Proven false, Amare is doing just fine without him contrary to what you all THOUGHT would happen.

[DPG21920]

Yeah I still don't get what magical event happened recently that made Amare better when he originally was worse.

Amare got better, but Bosh obviously got worse (or at least his role has really been difficult to adjust to). That is the difference.

You still never addressed the defensive argument. Please do.

[DPG21920]

Proven false, Amare is doing just fine without him contrary to what you all THOUGHT would happen.

No, I knew Amare would be fine. I never attributed everything to Nash. But nothing was proven false with regards to Nash helping Amare's numbers. Nash was a MVP and people had to pay attention to him. That helps.

[HarlemHeat37]

Bosh sucks as a 3rd option now and he sucked as a 3rd option back then, the difference is there was no evidence that Bosh was so bad as a 3rd option several months ago. He has no way to play off better players other than hulk up jumpers.

Exactly..how can you have argued that back then when you had no visual or statistical evidence of how Bosh plays as a non-#1 option?..this is the first year where he isn't the #1 option..

[YoungB]

I fully agree that Amare is better at moving off the ball than Bosh..my point is that before this season, we only knew Bosh as a #1 option, so I was comparing the 2 as primary options for their teams, where they both had the ball a lot..

I'm not arguing for Bosh being as good as Stoudemire now..I'm arguing why I thought it was a toss-up in the past..

Amare's the only one suited as a number one option IMO..we saw that teams with Amare as a 1 option can come damn close to a championship. Bosh led teams finish 4th or 5th in the east.

[DPG21920]

I fully agree that Amare is better at moving off the ball than Bosh..my point is that before this season, we only knew Bosh as a #1 option, so I was comparing the 2 as primary options for their teams, where they both had the ball a lot..

I'm not arguing for Bosh being as good as Stoudemire now..I'm arguing why I thought it was a toss-up in the past..

They don't get that.

[DPG21920]

Proven false, Amare is doing just fine without him contrary to what you all THOUGHT would happen.

Same favorable system and pace as well.

[HarlemHeat37]

Amare's the only one suited as a number one option IMO..we saw that teams with Amare as a 1 option can come damn close to a championship. Bosh led teams finish 4th or 5th in the east.

Amare has never been the clear #1 option until this year, but I agree that Bosh can't lead a team anywhere as a #1, obviously..

[YoungB]

No, I knew Amare would be fine.

:lol I wish I was a forum Hawk and could pull up old posts with ease. You never said anything which would lead someone to think you thought this, but go ahead and prove me wrong though.

[DPG21920]

I think win shares is a bullshit stat (you've never seen me use it). I don't feel like addressing a stat where no one is even sure how it's calculated. What about Amare got better as a player and what about Bosh got worse? Just like you, I want specifics. From what I've watched, they're the same players they were back then.

HH already went into it. Read it.

I have given you specifics. You just keep saying "I don't care about stats and no argument can be made".

Like I said, you have terrible/no arguments.

[HarlemHeat37]

Oh gee idk, I understand basketball and by watching how Bosh played, I knew he'd suck as a 3rd option. Doesn't that make any sense to you, or is your brain that dumb that you can't even get that?

What does that have to do with "understanding basketball"?..you had never even seen Bosh try to play off the ball on a consistent basis, how could you have come to that conclusion?..he wasn't in a position to play off the ball consistently, he didn't have the teammates or system to run it..

[YoungB]

Amare has never been the clear #1 option until this year, but I agree that Bosh can't lead a team anywhere as a #1, obviously..

So Amare is a true #1 option seeing how NY is playing great, and his previous success with the Suns as an "unclear #1 option." :lol While as you admitted, Bosh isn't a number 1 option, more like a #2 or 3. That's why I say comparing the 2 is retarded, no way is a number 2 option on the level of a true go to guy.

[DPG21920]

:lol I wish I was a forum Hawk and could pull up old posts with ease. You never said anything which would lead someone to think you thought this, but go ahead and prove me wrong though.

Are you fucking retarded? I never, never said Nash made Amare. I discussed with DOK how he did the same thing with Starbury.

So, next...

Saying Bosh>Amare at the time, but that it was close does not mean Nash made Amare.

[DPG21920]

Nothing was proven false, but if you actually watched some Suns games and actually understood basketball, you'd know Amare would be just as productive without Nash. You wouldn't need "proof" to think so.


I already said det tbh.

[DPG21920]

Felton >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Calderon & Hedo

[YoungB]

He was never good on offense at anything other than isos.

Which he still never really converted at that high of a rate, at 49% for a big..

[HarlemHeat37]

Calderon is a terrible p&r player, and Turkoglu was used horribly in Toronto, as he himself has admitted..they hardly ran any p&rs with Turkoglu, even though it's his only asset as a player..


So Amare is a true #1 option seeing how NY is playing great, and his previous success with the Suns as an "unclear #1 option." :lol While as you admitted, Bosh isn't a number 1 option, more like a #2 or 3. That's why I say comparing the 2 is retarded, no way is a number 2 option on the level of a true go to guy.

Amare is playing great as a #1 option THIS season..

[YoungB]

Calderon is a terrible p&r player, and Turkoglu was used horribly in Toronto, as he himself has admitted..they hardly ran any p&rs with Turkoglu, even though it's his only asset as a player..



Amare is playing great as a #1 option THIS season..

So who was the Suns #1 option on offense in previous seasons? (I'll give you a hint, he always scored the most points..)

This should be interesting.

[DPG21920]

So lets get this straight:

1) HH and I say Bosh>Amare before this year started, but that it was very close and the gap was negligible. We provided statistical analysis to back up our arguments and the entire NBA including GM's agreed.

2) Mav Fan says "I don't believe in stats and it's impossible to make a statistical argument" and then says false things like Amare is the better defender & rebounder and that Bosh always shot way more jump shots than Amare.

3) They still use today's evidence to try and dispute the argument back then and fail to acknowledge that we all say Amare is now clearly better than Bosh at the moment, but at the time of the argument it was close.

4) They then say explain how the players are different, we do using statistical analysis while evaluating circumstance and their new roles and then Mav fan again says "I ignore the only tangible thing (stat. analysis) and I will only argue after the fact".

[HarlemHeat37]

So who was the Suns #1 option on offense in previous seasons? (I'll give you a hint, he always scored the most points..)

This should be interesting.

Nash and Stoudemire..they both had the ball in their hands as much as the other, obviously..

[HarlemHeat37]

:lol You guys clearly didn't watch the Raptors on a consistent basis..I've already proven you wrong about Bosh being strictly a jump shooter in previous seasons, and your claims about the Raptors playing Bosh off the ball was clearly wrong, too..

[YoungB]

DPG's mental capacity seems to not extend past advanced stats on a piece of paper (Which I've already shown how they can be flawed two or three different times on this site) so therefore anything else is a "terrible argument." :lol

The bottom line is, me and picklebreath were right about the two all along, we obviously saw something you guys didn't. You are the guys changing your previous stance. We knew who was better all along, and it was quite obvious to those with an IQ higher than that of a baby chimp.

[HarlemHeat37]

If you had previously watched Amare and understood basketball rather than judging everything off advanced statistics like a nerd, you would know Amare would be just fine as a #1. The fact you think a retarded stat like "% of FGs made off assists" means anything just proves my point. When Nash threw a pass to Amare that he had to catch in traffic and then finish over a taller player, that stupid advanced stat makes a great play by Amare look like a great play from Nash.

I've always said Amare would be fine as a #1 option..you can find dozens of posts where I say it..

It doesn't change the fact that attributing the Suns previous success to Amare when Nash was also on the team(and was arguably the #1 option), and discrediting Bosh as a #1 option, is obviously unfair..

[DPG21920]

DPG and Harlem don't seem to understand that YoungB and I are able to make conclusions about how Amare and Bosh would do this year based on what we saw from previously watching them. Their mental capacity prevents them from going beyond a piece of paper to gauge how someone will do as the #1 or #3 option.

You did nothing you idiot. DoK did. You did nothing however. Trying to steal credit from others makes you scum.

[YoungB]

So lets get this straight:3) They still use today's evidence to try and dispute the argument back then and fail to acknowledge that we all say Amare is now clearly better than Bosh at the moment, but at the time of the argument it was close.

:lmao You still really don't get it. Both players are the same as they were a few months ago, not much has changed. You only PERCEIVED that it was close, when in reality it was smoke and mirrors because Bosh is the type of player that can put up nice numbers as a #1 option on a shitty team like Toronto without ever translating his play to wins. Amare on the other hand has always been a good ball player who can contribute no matter what team he's on.

[DPG21920]

DPG's mental capacity seems to not extend past advanced stats on a piece of paper (Which I've already shown how they can be flawed two or three different times on this site) so therefore anything else is a "terrible argument." :lol

The bottom line is, me and picklebreath were right about the two all along, we obviously saw something you guys didn't. You are the guys changing your previous stance. We knew who was better all along, and it was quite obvious to those with an IQ higher than that of a baby chimp.

So the guy who understands and applies statistics is the idiot while the guys who say you cannot use stats and arguments are impossible to quantify are smart.

Now I have seen it all :lol

[DPG21920]

DPG's mental capacity seems to not extend past advanced stats on a piece of paper (Which I've already shown how they can be flawed two or three different times on this site) so therefore anything else is a "terrible argument." :lol

The bottom line is, me and picklebreath were right about the two all along, we obviously saw something you guys didn't. You are the guys changing your previous stance. We knew who was better all along, and it was quite obvious to those with an IQ higher than that of a baby chimp.

So they were never comparable players? Simple yes or no.

[YoungB]

So the guy who understands and applies statistics is the idiot while the guys who say you cannot use stats and arguments are impossible to quantify are smart.

Now I have seen it all :lol

I understand statistics, I just don't see them as an end all/be all of every argument. I've shown several instances on this site where advanced stats can be flawed, and sometimes it takes a little detective work to see why, since so many things go into the formulas for advanced stats. Someone like you just see's the stats and assumes someone elses work can be held as fact in every situation. If you want to talk stats, and only stats, Amare's are better, and always have been. I already posted the win shares, where when you compare complete seasons between the two (excluding microfracture, rookie years, etc.) Amare's lowest total is better than Bosh's best.

[DPG21920]

:lmao You still really don't get it. Both players are the same as they were a few months ago, not much has changed. You only PERCEIVED that it was close, when in reality it was smoke and mirrors because Bosh is the type of player that can put up nice numbers as a #1 option on a shitty team like Toronto without ever translating his play to wins. Amare on the other hand has always been a good ball player who can contribute no matter what team he's on.

Saying that not much has changed implies something has changed. Saying the players are the same implies nothing has changed.

If nothing has changed and something has changed, which one is it?

:lol All of the stats perceived it was close along with the rest of the NBA.

[DPG21920]

I understand statistics, I just don't see them as an end all/be all of every argument. I've shown several instances on this site where advanced stats can be flawed, and sometimes it takes a little detective work to see why, since so many things go into the formulas for advanced stats. Someone like you just see's the stats and assumes someone elses work can be held as fact in every situation. If you want to talk stats, and only stats, Amare's are better, and always have been. I already posted the win shares, where when you compare complete seasons between the two (excluding microfracture, rookie years, etc.) Amare's lowest total is better than Bosh's best.

No, you haven't and you don't understand them. They are not an end all be all and neither myself or HH are using them as such. But they are a way to logically quantify an argument and it sure as hell beats "I just know it to be true...".

Have Amare's stats always been so much better than Bosh's that it wasn't close?

Bosh's defensive win shares>Amare's.

Bosh's win shares this years>Amare's.

[Roddy Beaubois]

I think picklebreath wins dis one just for never taking the mavfan/dok bait that DPG has thrown out there probably 500 times now.

[Cane]

They are comparable players but the comparison should lead into one saying Amar'e > Bosh.

Amar'e played like he was the best big man in the 2nd half of last season which carried the Suns in the ultra-competitive West to a high playoffs seed whereas Bosh was putting up imo "good stats on a bad team" and also milked sitting on the bench during the end of the season instead of playing...which is understandable considering he probably knew he was Miami Heat-bound but definitely a knock in this comparison.

Amar'e imo had a much better season especially with the wins in the regular season and playoffs and is a better player when you ignore his injury history. Bosh on the other hand seems like a perennial loser of a player - "good stats on a bad team" kind of guy unless he's part of a big 3.

[DPG21920]

The voters who elected Amare to 2nd all NBA while leaving Bosh off all 3 teams didn't perceive it to be close.

The Suns, Amare's own team who got to see him play every day didn't even want him back or perceive it to be close.

What does that say about a player when the team that knows him the most doesn't think he is a max player and lets him walk?

What does it say that the super team in MIA wants Bosh over Amare and the best players in the league chose Bosh over Amare and have a better record than the Knicks with Bosh putting up better overall win shares and defensive win shares than Amare?

[YoungB]

Bosh's defensive win shares>Amare's.

Bosh's win shares this years>Amare's.

This year is still young? Bosh being sliiiightly less retarded on defense in previous years does nothing to close the gap when you look at the big picture?

[DPG21920]

I think picklebreath wins dis one just for never taking the mavfan/dok bait that DPG has thrown out there probably 500 times now.

Huh?

[DPG21920]

They are comparable players but the comparison should lead into one saying Amar'e > Bosh.

Amar'e played like he was the best big man in the 2nd half of last season which carried the Suns in the ultra-competitive West to a high playoffs seed whereas Bosh was putting up imo "good stats on a bad team" and also milked sitting on the bench during the end of the season instead of playing...which is understandable considering he probably knew he was Miami Heat-bound but definitely a knock in this comparison.

Amar'e imo had a much better season especially with the wins in the regular season and playoffs and is a better player when you ignore his injury history. Bosh on the other hand seems like a perennial loser of a player - "good stats on a bad team" kind of guy unless he's part of a big 3.

So was Gasol on the Grizz and now he is MVPau

[DPG21920]

This year is still young? Bosh being sliiiightly less retarded on defense in previous years does nothing to close the gap when you look at the big picture?

Well you just don't get it. You still never answered the question directly. Before this year, was the gap, by all measurable accounts, between Amare and Bosh close? Yes or no?

[YoungB]

Well you just don't get it. You still never answered the question directly. Before this year, was the gap, by all measurable accounts, between Amare and Bosh close? Yes or no?

No you only perceived it as such. All smoke and mirrors.

[DPG21920]

Then you are still an idiot. Because nothing you have said or done disproves that gap wasn't close. Nothing.

[YoungB]

Then you are still an idiot. Because nothing you have said or done disproves that gap wasn't close. Nothing.

Win shares. Bosh could always try his hardest to put up similar stats, but it could never translate to more winshares.

[YoungB]

Besides the fact that this whole "you haven't proven anything :cry" argument is retarded, because you haven't done anything to prove that Bosh was ever in Amare's league to begin with. Nothing. It's only just now becoming apparently to you slower folks.

[DPG21920]

Win shares. Bosh could always try his hardest to put up similar stats, but it could never translate to more winshares.

So win shares this year don't matter and allllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll of the other statistical measures don't matter and you are saying that winshares in and of themselves disproves the notion that the gap was close :lol?

You clearly don't get it.

[DPG21920]

There's no factual way to disprove someone who says "tomorrow, when I wake up, the sun is gonna be green", but anyone with any semblance of a brain knows that the sky has been blue for as long as he can remember and knows that there's no logical backing behind the thought that the sky would be green tomorrow.

There is most definitely ways to prove it if it existed.

[DPG21920]

Besides the fact that this whole "you haven't proven anything :cry" argument is retarded, because you haven't done anything to prove that Bosh was ever in Amare's league to begin with. Nothing. It's only just now becoming apparently to you slower folks.

Yes we did. Look back at all of our analysis.

[DPG21920]

I think picklebreath wins dis one just for never taking the mavfan/dok bait that DPG has thrown out there probably 500 times now.

What bait, tbh? I am really not sure what you are going on about. Are you talking about the fact I said PB is piggy backing an argument that is not his own?

[YoungB]

So win shares this year don't matter and allllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll of the other statistical measures don't matter and you are saying that winshares in and of themselves disproves the notion that the gap was close :lol?

You clearly don't get it.

No I'm just sarcastically proving a point to you that anyone can use stats in their argument and it doesn't automatically proclaim them the UNDISPUTED CHAMP! :lol I could give a shit less about win shares, but since your whole argument revolves around similar statistics in years past...

Hey I've got a question for you. Since Jordan and Kobe have similar stats, does that mean they are equals?

[HarlemHeat37]

Last year Amare became the #1 option during the season and they went on a tear once he got the alpha dog role. Sorry that your brain is too small to comprehend it, but if you knew what you were talking about, you'd know the Suns were very good when Amare was the #1 last year.

Amare wasn't the clear #1 option..Nash still had the ball a large portion of the time..you could argue that Amare was the Suns best player, but having a #1a option/elite PG to handle the ball obviously played a large factor in the Suns success last year and in previous years..

Amare has only finished ahead of Nash in MVP voting once..last season, Nash finished ahead of him, IIRC..clearly, he was never a clear #1..


I don't understand why you're using this anti-stats argument..my argument hasn't been centered around stats..

YoungB said that Bosh was a jump shooter, which I proved was clearly false..a lot of stats can lie without the proper back up, but how can "amount of jump shots" and "amount of points in the paint" lie?..Bosh was a heavy scorer in the paint before, top 5 in the NBA, half of his offense came in the paint..how is that being ignored here?..it was clearly a false statement..

I only brought up Win Shares because somebody else brought it up first..

I only brought up Nash's impact because of the statement that "Bosh as a #1= 1st round exit, Amare as a #1= contender" in the past..Nash obviously plays a part..

The rest of my argument has been centered around watching games..somebody claiming that they "knew" Bosh would suck off the ball, even though the Raptors never played him off the ball, is obviously a reach..

Claiming that Calderon and Turkoglu is enough for him to play off the ball is clearly false, and comes from somebody that doesn't have an idea of how the Raptors system works..


Again, I said Amare was better than Bosh before the season..clearly from that list that picklebreath linked before, "toss-up" or "close" was clearly the majority opinion..

Also, bringing up All-NBA teams is irrelevant..team record plays a huge part in it..the only time Bosh's team had a good record, he made the All-NBA 2nd team, IIRC..

[DPG21920]

No, that is not what you are doing since we have clear rebuttals to your attempts and you don't with ours.

[YoungB]

Yes we did. Look back at all of our analysis.

You've proven a lot less than DoK and now picklebreath, tbh.

[DPG21920]

Your analysis involves posting a bunch of nerdy advanced stats created by people who have never played basketball in their lives.

You analysis from a guy who self proclaimed "I have been wrong many times" and says "nothing can be proven".

That is like you saying a guy is a bad shooter, I show you the stat FG% = 50% and you say "stats can lie!!!!!!!!!!, I just know he is a bad shooter nerd!!!!!!!!!"

[DPG21920]

You've proven a lot less than DoK and now picklebreath, tbh.

Nice troll job :lol, I cannot believe I fell for this for so long. I don't get got often by trolling, but you did it.

[YoungB]

Nice troll job :lol, I cannot believe I fell for this for so long. I don't get got often by trolling, but you did it.

Thanks brah, but Amare really was always better. I might get your goat here and there but facts are facts, it's just hard for the casual observer to view things in a vaccuum when both players play in different situations. I don't fault you for not possessing the awesome cranial capacity that we do.

[DPG21920]

FG% isn't an advanced stat that's extremely subjective when being calculated. If you just wanna stick to regular stats, Amare has Bosh killed, except for a very small rebounding difference.

:lol Killed. If that is your argument, then you look even dumber because just basic stats prove the gap was close.

[DPG21920]

Thanks brah, but Amare really was always better. I might get your goat here and there but facts are facts, it's just hard for the casual observer to view things in a vaccuum when both players play in different situations. I don't fault you for not possessing the awesome cranial capacity that we do.

I should have known when you were going on about "People who understand, use and apply stats are dumb, while those like myself and PB who have no idea what they mean are clearly smart" :lol

[DPG21920]

Amare has an advantage in all but 1 basic statistics. Even if the advantage is small, when he has an advantage in every single category, it'd be retarded to ever argue Bosh > Amare.

So you are admitting finally the gap is small.

[Roddy Beaubois]

What bait, tbh? I am really not sure what you are going on about. Are you talking about the fact I said PB is piggy backing an argument that is not his own?

lol playing dumb

[HarlemHeat37]

Hey look I'm sorry you were too stupid to know that Bosh, someone who has played his entire career with the ball in his hands while being known as someone who is lazy, would suck off ball before you got to witness it first hand. Don't hold it against me for being smart enough to know that he would suck off ball.

Nothing to do with being "smart enough"..it was just a guess, pretty much, or a biased opinion based on your hatred of Bosh..the only accurate statement would have been that it would take time for Bosh to adjust, which is obvious..

Bosh hasn't been good as the #3 this year, but he's getting better, and there's plenty of time left in the season..there's always an adjustment period when a new role is implemented..

[DPG21920]

lol playing dumb

I honestly have no idea wtf you are talking about. The only time I mention DoK is when I say PB has no original argument.

[DPG21920]

The gap in FG% isn't small. Also, the fact Amare has averaged more PPG throughout his career while playing on better teams with better players speaks volumes about who is a more lethal offensive player, regardless of the fact it's only 1.5 more PPG.

So you are going a long route to saying they were close?

[DPG21920]

:lol I'm going upstairs to watch my team hopefully best the Blazers of Portland. Excellent discussion back and forth though my Mav brothers who were birthed from other mothers. We have entertained those who observed in a classy and basketball discussion related way. For which, I commend all of us.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

true tbh. Both sides of this argument can take credit for raising the bar.

Thanks picklebarrel

[YoungB]

Comments like that deserve negative props.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

tbh, it'd be better just to call me picklebreath. picklebreath is a better insult than picklebarrel. Having pickle breath means you're gay/love pickles, being a pickle barrel isn't really weird.

tbh, I wasn't even trying to insult you. I think you're a good poster, despite thinking you were a troll at first. I just read your name really fast and think pickle barrel. I'll just call you PB from now on.

[ohmwrecker]

tbh, it'd be better just to call me picklebreath. picklebreath is a better insult than picklebarrel. Having pickle breath means you're gay/love pickles, being a pickle barrel isn't really weird.

It means you put pickles in your barrel tbh.

[Roddy Beaubois]

tbh, I wasn't even trying to insult you. I think you're a good poster, despite thinking you were a troll at first. I just read your name really fast and think pickle barrel. I'll just call you PB from now on.

:lmao I was about to say. Changing picklebreath to picklebarrel might be the worst insult ST has ever seen. And that includes fabbs.

[Brazil]

wtf? a bb discussion in the nba forum?