What in the World Are They Spraying?

[Blake]

If there were a suspicious male standing at the intersection nearest to your house, would it be fear mongering if your neighbor told you so?

Would it not benefit the situation to get as many eyes on the situation as possible?

With a hard description, isnt it possible that someone might ID him? Or at least you can keep an eye out to protect your family? Or if a cop lives in your 'hood, he might go question the guy?

What is the worst thing that you can do? Answer: dont say shit, and let the neighborhood be in the dark about the whole affair.

if you want to equate this example to this thread, the cops ask the guy what he was doing, he said "nothing" and the cops said "ok, move along or we'll cite you for loitering." Case closed.

great example. :tu

[Blake]

I said I already made my case. Kucinich alone makes for prima facie evidence. try again.

I've tried to skim the thread, but it's too much youtubing and jabbing.

Please do me a favor. Be the prosecutor and explain how Kucinich's testimony makes for guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

[Parker2112]

I've tried to skim the thread, but it's too much youtubing and jabbing.

Please do me a favor. Be the prosecutor and explain how Kucinich's testimony makes for guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

you misunderstand. prima facie standard only requires a question of fact. In other words, presenting anough info to establish a possibility that it happened as the state says.

From that point, defense pokes their holes, then it goes to a jury to make the determination.

In this case we arent talking trial anyway. We are talking grand jury, to which the standard is even lower.

I'm going to quote the Kucinich reference for you.

[Parker2112]

if you want to equate this example to this thread, the cops ask the guy what he was doing, he said "nothing" and the cops said "ok, move along or we'll cite you for loitering." Case closed.

great example. :tu

no comparison. The cops cant effectively question DoD. try again.

The cops I refer to in my metaphor would be DoD officials in real life, and likely not investigators but whistleblowers.

[Parker2112]

Kucinich recently told the Columbus Alive newspaper (Jan. 24, 2002) that despite official denials, as head of the Armed Services oversight committee he is well acquainted with chemtrail projects. “The truth is there’s an entire program in the Department of Defense, ‘Vision for 2020,’ that’s developing these weapons,” Kucinich told reporter Bob Fitrakis.

http://www.willthomas.net/chemtrails/Articles/Concerned_over_Chemtrails.htm

[Parker2112]

I cant find the actual interview, and I did look to the Columbus Alive website's search feature. I know that Kucinich is not the head of the armed services oversight committee at present, he is chair of another subcommittee I think, on domestic government oversight. So I cant vouch for this with 100% certainty, but it definitely needs to be dealt with before the contention reaches laughable status

[Blake]

you misunderstand. prima facie standard only requires a question of fact. In other words, presenting anough info to establish a possibility that it happened as the state says.

From that point, defense pokes their holes, then it goes to a jury to make the determination.

In this case we arent talking trial anyway. We are talking grand jury, to which the standard is even lower.

I'm going to quote the Kucinich reference for you.

simple testimony from Kucinich is not prima facie.

[Parker2112]

simple testimony from Kucinich is not prima facie.

One person's testimony is enough to convict for life or better. The key is the witnesses credibility. You already know this.

Here we aren't trying to convict, we are simply trying to get to the jury. Lower standard even.

Blake youre hell on wheels when it comes to internet research. If you poke holes in this interview's actual existence I will buy you a six pack.

[Parker2112]

In jurisdictions in which there is a grand jury (http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-grand-jury.htm), such as some parts of the United States, a prima facie case must be made to a grand jury in order for the prosecution to secure an indictment (http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-an-indictment.htm). A prima facie case is a lesser burden of proof (http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-burden-of-proof.htm) than is required to secure a conviction (http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-conviction.htm) during a trial, when guilt must be proved beyond a reasonable doubt (http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-reasonable-doubt.htm). This is because a grand jury is not convened to find guilt or innocence, but only to discover whether there is justification for a trial to take place.

[Blake]

no comparison. The cops cant effectively question DoD. try again.

The cops I refer to in my metaphor would be DoD officials in real life, and likely not investigators but whistleblowers.

k, let me know when the whistle has been blown by someone with actual evidence.

[Parker2112]

k, let me know when the whistle has been blown by someone with actual evidence.

kucinich is chopped liver? he would make such a claim in the press without first-hand knowledge? You really think?

[Blake]

One person's testimony is enough to convict for life or better. The key is the witnesses credibility. You already know this.

and if there are offcials that deny such testimony, then it's not any kind of proof in any form.


Here we aren't trying to convict, we are simply trying to get to the jury. Lower standard even.

Blake youre hell on wheels when it comes to internet research. If you poke holes in this interview's actual existence I will buy you a six pack.

I don't deny the existence of the interview; I don't buy that such an interview is prima facie.

Do you have a legit legal source that says it is prima facie, or is it your own dedecutive reasoning that leads to that conclusion?

[Blake]

kucinich is chopped liver? he would make such a claim in the press without first-hand knowledge? You really think?

many people have claimed may things for many different reasons.

What did the press do when Kucinich came to them with this knowledge?

[Parker2112]

and if there are offcials that deny such testimony, then it's not any kind of proof in any form.



incorrect. it boils down to credibility. Havent you ever watched Matlock? :lol

Jury decides who to believe, based on credibility.

Both sides present their case and jury decides who is lying.

Prima facie only comes in at the early stages. If a congressman testifies, you can bet your ass the jury will get to decide the case.

[Parker2112]

and if there are offcials that deny such testimony, then it's not any kind of proof in any form.



I don't deny the existence of the interview, I don't buy that such an interview is prima facie.

Do you have a legit legal source that says it is prima facie, or is it your own dedecutive reasoning that leads to that conclusion?




STANDARD FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT

Pursuant to Rule 56, Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, summary judgment is proper
only if "there is no genuine issue as to any material fact and . . . the moving party is entitled to
judgment as a matter of law." "[T]he substantive law will identify which facts are material. Only
disputes over facts that might affect the outcome of the suit under the governing law will properly
preclude the entry of summary judgment. Factual disputes that are irrelevant or unnecessary will
not be counted." Anderson v. Liberty Lobby, Inc., 477 U.S. 242, 248, 106 S.Ct. 2505 2510,
91 L.Ed.2d 202 (1986). The burden is on the moving party to demonstrate that no genuine issue
of material fact exists. Celotex Corp. v. Catrett, 477 U.S. 317, 323, 106 S.Ct. 2548, 2552-53,
91 L.Ed.2d 265 (1986). In determining whether the moving party has met its burden, the court
must consider all inferences drawn from the underlying facts in a light most favorable to the party
opposing the motion and must resolve all reasonable doubt against the moving party. Anderson,
477 U.S. at 255, 106 S.Ct. at 2513-14; See Matsushita Elec. Indus. Co. v. Zenith Radio
Corp., 475 U.S. 574, 587-88, 106 S.Ct. 1348, 1358-57, 89 L.Ed.2d 538 (1986).

"[T]he court must consider all inferences drawn from the underlying facts in a light most favorable
to the party opposing the motion . . . . " Anderson. v. Liberty Lobby, Inc.

The court may grant summary judgment only "if there is no genuine issue as to any
material fact." Anderson v. Liberty Lobby, Inc., 477 U.S. 242, 250, 106 S.Ct. 2502, 2511, 91
L.Ed2d. 202 (1986). The burden rests on the moving party to demonstrate the lack of a genuine
issue of fact. Adickes v. S. H. Kress & Co., 398 U,.S. 144, 157, 90 S.Ct. 1598, 1608, 26
L.Ed.2d 142 (1970). The record must be viewed in the light most favorable to the moving party
opposing the motion. United States v. Diebold, Inc., 369 U.S. 654, 82 S.Ct. 993, 994, 8
L.Ed.2d 176 (1962).

"The court may grant summary judgment only "if there is no genuine issue as to any material fact."
Anderson v. Liberty Lobby, Inc.

It is well settled that a plaintiff may survive summary judgment by "presenting evidence
sufficient to demonstrate a genuine issue of material fact



A genuine issue of material fact is a legal term often used as the basis for a motion for summary judgment. A summary judgment is proper if there is no genuine issue of material fact and the movant is entitled to a judgment as a matter of law. Such a motion will be granted if the party making the motion proves there is no genuine issue of material fact to be decided. When the moving party makes a prima facie showing that no genuine issue of material fact exists, the burden shifts to the nonmoving party to rebut the showing by presenting substantial evidence creating a genuine issue of material fact.


A party moving (applying) for summary judgment is attempting to eliminate its risk of losing at trial, and possibly avoid having to go through discovery, by demonstrating to the judge, by sworn statements (http://spurstalk.com/wiki/Testimony) and documentary evidence (http://spurstalk.com/wiki/Documentary_evidence), that there are no material issues of fact remaining to be tried. If there's nothing for the jury to decide, then, the moving party asks rhetorically, why have a trial? The moving party will also attempt to persuade the court that the undisputed material facts require judgment to be entered in favor of the moving party. In many jurisdictions, a party moving for summary judgment takes the risk that, although the judge may agree there are no material issues of fact remaining for trial, the judge may also find that it is the non-moving party who is entitled to judgment as a matter of law.

[Parker2112]

Summary judgment is awarded if the undisputed facts and the law make it clear that it would be impossible for one party to prevail if the matter were to proceed to trial. The court must consider all materials in the light most favorable to the party opposing the motion for summary judgment.
If a trial could result in the jury (or judge in a bench trial (http://spurstalk.com/wiki/Bench_trial)) deciding in favor of the party opposing the motion, then summary judgment is inappropriate.

[Parker2112]

in other words, the court assumes that Kucinich is telling the truth (light most favorable to me) and then decides if that would be sufficient to find for me.

[Parker2112]

The burden is on the moving party to demonstrate that no genuine issue
of material fact exists. Celotex Corp. v. Catrett

in other words, Chump was full of shit.

[Parker2112]

many people have claimed may things for many different reasons.

What did the press do when Kucinich came to them with this knowledge?

this small media outlet reported it. There are several other reports by small local press in this thread, but you dismissed them as youtubes.

[Blake]

incorrect. it boils down to credibility. Havent you ever watched Matlock? :lol

please cite a similar example where it has boiled down to simple credibility of one witness.


Jury decides who to believe, based on credibility.

Both sides present their case and jury decides who is lying.

Prima facie only comes in at the early stages. If a congressman testifies, you can bet your ass the jury will get to decide the case.

I think you watch too much Matlock.

[Blake]

in other words, the court assumes that Kucinich is telling the truth (light most favorable to me) and then decides if that would be sufficient to find for me.

:lol

again, Kucinich testimony on it's own is not prima facie of any kind.

does Kucinich have documentary evidence to back up his testimony?

[Blake]

this small media outlet reported it. There are several other reports by small local press in this thread, but you dismissed them as youtubes.

I dismissed them because they are youtubes.

What's the name(s) of the outlet(s) and how did they handle this important information?

[Parker2112]

please cite a similar example where it has boiled down to simple credibility of one witness.



I think you watch too much Matlock.

havent you heard of the "star witness?" thats the one which the case revolves around, and the one without which the case falls apart

[Parker2112]

I dismissed them because they are youtubes.

What's the name(s) of the outlet(s) and how did they handle this important information?


Kucinich recently told the Columbus Alive newspaper (Jan. 24, 2002) that despite official denials, as head of the Armed Services oversight committee he is well acquainted with chemtrail projects. “The truth is there’s an entire program in the Department of Defense, ‘Vision for 2020,’ that’s developing these weapons,” Kucinich told reporter Bob Fitrakis.

as i said they reported it.

[Parker2112]

this is not youtube:


CHEMTRAILS CONFIRMED

by

William Thomas

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



As a resurgence of unusual aerial trails crisscross Canadian skies, official confirmation of chemtrails has come from the U.S. Congress.

“Chemtrails” is the term widely used to describe the brilliant white plumes laid down by U.S. Air Force tanker planes photo-identified over North America and a dozen other allied nations. Unlike normal condensation trails – which form when hot engine exhaust momentarily condenses in the frigid stratosphere like exhaled breath on a cold day - chemical trails linger for hours, turning clear skies into milky haze in a process the U.S. Air Force calls “aerial obscuration”



Chemtrail Ban Sought In Congress

“Chemtrails” also appear in House Resolution 2977. Introduced last October by Ohio Rep. Dennis Kucinich, this bill called for the peaceful uses of space, and a ban on “exotic weapons”. Section 7 of the “Space Preservation Act of 2001” sought specifically to prohibit “chemtrails”.

Kucinich recently told the Columbus Alive newspaper (Jan. 24, 2002) that despite official denials, as head of the Armed Services oversight committee he is well acquainted with chemtrail projects. “The truth is there’s an entire program in the Department of Defense, ‘Vision for 2020,’ that’s developing these weapons,” Kucinich told reporter Bob Fitrakis. The U.S. Space Command’s 2020 vision calls for “dominance” of space, land, sea and air.

The unusual white plumes reported by Air Canada pilots, police officers and former military personnel over Canada and the U.S. during the past three years are often contrasted by brief, pencil-thin contrails left by commercial jets flying above them.

Contrails form when water vapor clumps around dirt particles acting as nuclei. According to NASA and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, contrails can only form at temperatures below minus 76 degrees, and humidity levels of 70 percent or more. Even in ideal conditions, contrails rarely last more than 20 minutes.

But atmospheric studies by NASA and NOAA - including TARFOX, ACE-Asia, ACE-I and II, INDOEX and Project SUCCESS - confirm that artificial clouds and contrails can be manufactured under conditions of low humidity by dispensing particles from aircraft. The smaller the size of the nuclei introduced into the atmosphere, the greater the rate of artificial cloud formation.


Canadians Petition Parliament
Canadians were the first to complain about chemtrails to their federal government. On Nov. 18, 1999, NDP Defense critic Gordon Earl petitioned Parliament on behalf of 550 residents of Espanola, Ontario to “repeal any law that would permit the dispersal of military chaff or of any cloud-seeding substance whatsoever by domestic or foreign military aircraft without the informed consent of the citizens of Canada thus affected.”

According to CBC Newsworld (Aug 29, 1999), “Many in the community have reported respiratory problems and strange aches and pains. Town council heard that some believe military jets are dropping material over the town as part of a weather experiment” - after laboratory tests confirmed the presence of aluminum in rainwater falling through chemtrails over Espanola five-times higher than provincial health safety limits.

The Ministry of Defense eventually replied, “It’s not us.”



Studies Prove Chemtrails Cannot Be Contrails

The “airliner” argument collapsed along with the Twin Towers, when heavy chemtrails were reported over Vancouver Island and widely separated U.S. cities despite the grounding of all commercial flights last Sept. 11, 12 and 13.

Photographs of heavy aerial gridding over Santa Fe, New Mexico and B.C.’s Sunshine Coast also contradict official weather data showing high altitude humidity at the same times and locations to be less than one third the moisture needed for contrails to form.

In Houston, Texas, Mark Steadham conducted a 62 day survey of jet traffic over that busy hub. Using a computer program called Flight Explorer, Steadham identified commercial and military aircraft sharing the same sky. The contrails from commercial jets dissipated within 22 seconds. The plumes left behind at the same time by big military jets persisted for four to eight hours.


Canadian and U.S. Aviation Officials Confirm Chemtrails
The first break in an investigation begun by the Environment News Service in Jan. 1999, came 11 months later when Victoria airport authority Terry Stewart returned a call to a Victoria resident concerned about the X’s and grid patterns being laid over the B.C. capitol. “It’s a military exercise, a U.S. and Canada air force exercise that’s going on,” Stewart reported on Dec. 8, 2000. “They wouldn’t give me any specifics on it.”

The “specifics” came in March the following year, when Maine radio reporter S. T. Brendt called a senior Air Traffic Control manager after she, her news director and staff counted 370 plumes filling skies normally devoid of commercial aircraft. During his hitch in U.S. Navy Intelligence, Brendt’s husband had never seen an aerial armada this big. “It looked like an invasion,” Lou Aubuchont said.

The FAA manager told Brendt he had been ordered to redirect incoming commercial flights around “military exercises” on several occasions that month. In follow-up interviews at the WMWV studios, the government official confirmed widespread chemtrail activity. As they flew north into Canada, he said, the planes were spraying a substance that showed up as a “haze” on Air Traffic Control radar screens.

This characteristic signature of radar beams reflecting off fine aluminum particles confirmed the Espanola lab tests. It also matched a patent issued to Hughes Aircraft Corp. in 1994. This practical blueprint described spraying reflective aluminum particles into Earth’s greenhouse atmosphere, “For the Reduction of Global Warming”.

Computer simulations at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory showed that spraying 10 million tons of aluminum oxide into the upper atmosphere would reflect between one and two percent of incoming sunlight. The predictions promised no net warming over 85 percent of the earth surface, despite a predicted doubling of CO2 within the next 50 years.

The biggest lobby pushing for a reduction in global warming are insurance companies bigger than Big Oil and the international trade in arms. Multinationals such as the Swiss Reinsurance Company and Lloyd’s of London report unsustainable losses incurred by Extreme Weather Events caused by a rapidly warming planet. It is feared that if they go bankrupt, so will the money markets and banks that back them.

Andrew Dlugolecki - director of one of the world’s six biggest insurance groups, CGNU - warned the Hague two years ago that unless action is taken to curb global warming, the resulting damage will exceed the dollar value of all the world’s resources by 2065. “Already we’re beginning to run out of money in the insurance industry,” Dlugolecki declared.

It was Edward Teller, father of the H-bomb, who called for spraying a chemical “sunscreen” at a 1998 International Seminar on Planetary Emergencies. Besides disturbing regional weather patterns, Teller’s chief climate modeler, Ken Caldeira worries about negative health effects. The atmospheric scientist who crunched the numbers on Teller’s “sky shield” further warns such a project could, “destroy the ozone layer”. Caldeira believes the U.S. government will publicly admit to chemtrails this spring.



Health Hazard
Scientists say aluminum oxide as inert as sand poses no toxic threat. But after examining more than 3,000 health studies published since 1997, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency confirmed a strong link between tiny particulates and thousands of premature deaths each year.

According to a New York Times feature, “Tiny Bits of Soot Tied to Illnesses” (April 21, 2001), numerous health studies show that “microscopic motes - composed of metals, carbon and other ingredients - are able to infiltrate the tiniest compartments in the lungs and pass readily into the bloodstream and have been most strongly tied to illness and early death, particularly in people who are already susceptible to respiratory problems.”

In a report headlined, “Tiny particles can kill” New Scientist (Aug. 5, 2000) reported a Harvard “Six Cities” study, which “identified particles with a diameter of less than 10 microns as threat to public health.”


Barium Chemtrails
A scientist working at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base told Columbus Alive (Dec. 6, 2001) that two different chemtrails projects are currently being conducted by the U.S. military. One involves creating clouds to cool global warming.

Chemtrails are also being deployed by the Pentagon to suspend a mixture of barium stearate and fine iron particles as a temporary atmospheric antenna for conducting radio and radar waves over the horizon. The soapy stearate used to carry the airborne iron particles appears in the sky as prismatic bands of color.

Barium-iron chemtrails were reportedly used to create long range radio-and-radar “ducting” during sustained air strikes on Iraq, Kosovo, and Afghanistan. The scientist interviewed by Fitzrakis also stated that barium chemtrails are being used in conjunction with an “atmospheric heater” called HAARP in Gakon, Alaska.

HAARP’s inventor Bernard Eastland told this reporter that the principal purpose of this multi-million watt weapon is to “steer the jet stream” and change the weather. His patent calls for spraying barium in the atmosphere to enhance the effects of HAARP. “Wright-Pat has long been deeply engaged in HAARP’s electromagnetic warfare program,” Eastlund told Columbus Alive.



Electromagnetic Hazards
If some of the chemtrails being sprayed overhead contain compounds for conducting electromagnetic energy, residents of all affected communities could be in even graver danger from the intense electromagnetic radiation emitted by cellphone and microwave transmitter towers, radar installations at military bases, high-voltage power lines, high-power military relay towers and myriad other well-documented sources of "electronic smog" - 15 million times more intense than natural background levels.

Barium chemtrails could accidentally amplify these already hazardous electromagnetic emanations

Canadian military officers at Canadian Forces Base Comox spokesmen have heatedly denied the existence of this joint military operation. But Terry Stewart told the Vancouver Courier (Aug. 15, 2001) that his information confirming the Canada-U.S. military exercise came directly from CFB Comox.

[Parker2112]

this is not youtube:


CHEMTRAILS CONFIRMED

by

William Thomas

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



As a resurgence of unusual aerial trails crisscross Canadian skies, official confirmation of chemtrails has come from the U.S. Congress.

“Chemtrails” is the term widely used to describe the brilliant white plumes laid down by U.S. Air Force tanker planes photo-identified over North America and a dozen other allied nations. Unlike normal condensation trails – which form when hot engine exhaust momentarily condenses in the frigid stratosphere like exhaled breath on a cold day - chemical trails linger for hours, turning clear skies into milky haze in a process the U.S. Air Force calls “aerial obscuration”



Chemtrail Ban Sought In Congress

“Chemtrails” also appear in House Resolution 2977. Introduced last October by Ohio Rep. Dennis Kucinich, this bill called for the peaceful uses of space, and a ban on “exotic weapons”. Section 7 of the “Space Preservation Act of 2001” sought specifically to prohibit “chemtrails”.

Kucinich recently told the Columbus Alive newspaper (Jan. 24, 2002) that despite official denials, as head of the Armed Services oversight committee he is well acquainted with chemtrail projects. “The truth is there’s an entire program in the Department of Defense, ‘Vision for 2020,’ that’s developing these weapons,” Kucinich told reporter Bob Fitrakis. The U.S. Space Command’s 2020 vision calls for “dominance” of space, land, sea and air.

The unusual white plumes reported by Air Canada pilots, police officers and former military personnel over Canada and the U.S. during the past three years are often contrasted by brief, pencil-thin contrails left by commercial jets flying above them.

Contrails form when water vapor clumps around dirt particles acting as nuclei. According to NASA and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, contrails can only form at temperatures below minus 76 degrees, and humidity levels of 70 percent or more. Even in ideal conditions, contrails rarely last more than 20 minutes.

But atmospheric studies by NASA and NOAA - including TARFOX, ACE-Asia, ACE-I and II, INDOEX and Project SUCCESS - confirm that artificial clouds and contrails can be manufactured under conditions of low humidity by dispensing particles from aircraft. The smaller the size of the nuclei introduced into the atmosphere, the greater the rate of artificial cloud formation.


Canadians Petition Parliament
Canadians were the first to complain about chemtrails to their federal government. On Nov. 18, 1999, NDP Defense critic Gordon Earl petitioned Parliament on behalf of 550 residents of Espanola, Ontario to “repeal any law that would permit the dispersal of military chaff or of any cloud-seeding substance whatsoever by domestic or foreign military aircraft without the informed consent of the citizens of Canada thus affected.”

According to CBC Newsworld (Aug 29, 1999), “Many in the community have reported respiratory problems and strange aches and pains. Town council heard that some believe military jets are dropping material over the town as part of a weather experiment” - after laboratory tests confirmed the presence of aluminum in rainwater falling through chemtrails over Espanola five-times higher than provincial health safety limits.

The Ministry of Defense eventually replied, “It’s not us.”



Studies Prove Chemtrails Cannot Be Contrails

The “airliner” argument collapsed along with the Twin Towers, when heavy chemtrails were reported over Vancouver Island and widely separated U.S. cities despite the grounding of all commercial flights last Sept. 11, 12 and 13.

Photographs of heavy aerial gridding over Santa Fe, New Mexico and B.C.’s Sunshine Coast also contradict official weather data showing high altitude humidity at the same times and locations to be less than one third the moisture needed for contrails to form.

In Houston, Texas, Mark Steadham conducted a 62 day survey of jet traffic over that busy hub. Using a computer program called Flight Explorer, Steadham identified commercial and military aircraft sharing the same sky. The contrails from commercial jets dissipated within 22 seconds. The plumes left behind at the same time by big military jets persisted for four to eight hours.


Canadian and U.S. Aviation Officials Confirm Chemtrails
The first break in an investigation begun by the Environment News Service in Jan. 1999, came 11 months later when Victoria airport authority Terry Stewart returned a call to a Victoria resident concerned about the X’s and grid patterns being laid over the B.C. capitol. “It’s a military exercise, a U.S. and Canada air force exercise that’s going on,” Stewart reported on Dec. 8, 2000. “They wouldn’t give me any specifics on it.”

The “specifics” came in March the following year, when Maine radio reporter S. T. Brendt called a senior Air Traffic Control manager after she, her news director and staff counted 370 plumes filling skies normally devoid of commercial aircraft. During his hitch in U.S. Navy Intelligence, Brendt’s husband had never seen an aerial armada this big. “It looked like an invasion,” Lou Aubuchont said.

The FAA manager told Brendt he had been ordered to redirect incoming commercial flights around “military exercises” on several occasions that month. In follow-up interviews at the WMWV studios, the government official confirmed widespread chemtrail activity. As they flew north into Canada, he said, the planes were spraying a substance that showed up as a “haze” on Air Traffic Control radar screens.

This characteristic signature of radar beams reflecting off fine aluminum particles confirmed the Espanola lab tests. It also matched a patent issued to Hughes Aircraft Corp. in 1994. This practical blueprint described spraying reflective aluminum particles into Earth’s greenhouse atmosphere, “For the Reduction of Global Warming”.

Computer simulations at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory showed that spraying 10 million tons of aluminum oxide into the upper atmosphere would reflect between one and two percent of incoming sunlight. The predictions promised no net warming over 85 percent of the earth surface, despite a predicted doubling of CO2 within the next 50 years.

The biggest lobby pushing for a reduction in global warming are insurance companies bigger than Big Oil and the international trade in arms. Multinationals such as the Swiss Reinsurance Company and Lloyd’s of London report unsustainable losses incurred by Extreme Weather Events caused by a rapidly warming planet. It is feared that if they go bankrupt, so will the money markets and banks that back them.

Andrew Dlugolecki - director of one of the world’s six biggest insurance groups, CGNU - warned the Hague two years ago that unless action is taken to curb global warming, the resulting damage will exceed the dollar value of all the world’s resources by 2065. “Already we’re beginning to run out of money in the insurance industry,” Dlugolecki declared.

It was Edward Teller, father of the H-bomb, who called for spraying a chemical “sunscreen” at a 1998 International Seminar on Planetary Emergencies. Besides disturbing regional weather patterns, Teller’s chief climate modeler, Ken Caldeira worries about negative health effects. The atmospheric scientist who crunched the numbers on Teller’s “sky shield” further warns such a project could, “destroy the ozone layer”. Caldeira believes the U.S. government will publicly admit to chemtrails this spring.



Health Hazard
Scientists say aluminum oxide as inert as sand poses no toxic threat. But after examining more than 3,000 health studies published since 1997, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency confirmed a strong link between tiny particulates and thousands of premature deaths each year.

According to a New York Times feature, “Tiny Bits of Soot Tied to Illnesses” (April 21, 2001), numerous health studies show that “microscopic motes - composed of metals, carbon and other ingredients - are able to infiltrate the tiniest compartments in the lungs and pass readily into the bloodstream and have been most strongly tied to illness and early death, particularly in people who are already susceptible to respiratory problems.”

In a report headlined, “Tiny particles can kill” New Scientist (Aug. 5, 2000) reported a Harvard “Six Cities” study, which “identified particles with a diameter of less than 10 microns as threat to public health.”


Barium Chemtrails
A scientist working at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base told Columbus Alive (Dec. 6, 2001) that two different chemtrails projects are currently being conducted by the U.S. military. One involves creating clouds to cool global warming.

Chemtrails are also being deployed by the Pentagon to suspend a mixture of barium stearate and fine iron particles as a temporary atmospheric antenna for conducting radio and radar waves over the horizon. The soapy stearate used to carry the airborne iron particles appears in the sky as prismatic bands of color.

Barium-iron chemtrails were reportedly used to create long range radio-and-radar “ducting” during sustained air strikes on Iraq, Kosovo, and Afghanistan. The scientist interviewed by Fitzrakis also stated that barium chemtrails are being used in conjunction with an “atmospheric heater” called HAARP in Gakon, Alaska.

HAARP’s inventor Bernard Eastland told this reporter that the principal purpose of this multi-million watt weapon is to “steer the jet stream” and change the weather. His patent calls for spraying barium in the atmosphere to enhance the effects of HAARP. “Wright-Pat has long been deeply engaged in HAARP’s electromagnetic warfare program,” Eastlund told Columbus Alive.



Electromagnetic Hazards
If some of the chemtrails being sprayed overhead contain compounds for conducting electromagnetic energy, residents of all affected communities could be in even graver danger from the intense electromagnetic radiation emitted by cellphone and microwave transmitter towers, radar installations at military bases, high-voltage power lines, high-power military relay towers and myriad other well-documented sources of "electronic smog" - 15 million times more intense than natural background levels.

Barium chemtrails could accidentally amplify these already hazardous electromagnetic emanations

Canadian military officers at Canadian Forces Base Comox spokesmen have heatedly denied the existence of this joint military operation. But Terry Stewart told the Vancouver Courier (Aug. 15, 2001) that his information confirming the Canada-U.S. military exercise came directly from CFB Comox.

[ChumpDumper]

kucinich is chopped liver? he would make such a claim in the press without first-hand knowledge? You really think?I think that quote was cherry picked. the last one you cited makes no mention of actual chemtrail weapons.

And no, Kucinich isn't the most credible member of Congress.

[ChumpDumper]

And the "scientist" won't even give his name.

Inadmissible.

[Parker2112]

I think that quote was cherry picked. the last one you cited makes no mention of actual chemtrail weapons.

And no, Kucinich isn't the most credible member of Congress.

thats possible. And his cred is your opinion. I think the fact that he tried to impeach Bush SPEAKS VOLUMES ABOUT HIS CRED. but thats just me. you might feel differently.

[Parker2112]

what about the hughes patent? they have invested money in R&D, they have ties to MIC, they have a stated purpose.

Welsbach Seeding Patent for Global Warming PDF (http://www.willthomas.net/Chemtrails/welsbach-seeding.pdf)

[ChumpDumper]

what about the hughes patent? they have invested money in R&D, they have ties to MIC, they have a stated purpose.

Welsbach Seeding Patent for Global Warming PDF (http://www.willthomas.net/Chemtrails/welsbach-seeding.pdf)Those materials should be easy to collect from the "chemtrails" and the places below them since they are supposed to be much heavier than air.

Have they been collected and documented?

[Parker2112]

#1. http://www.holmestead.ca/chemtrails/soiltest.html

#2. from the film:

aluminum levels in the snowpack at Mt. Shasta, California are 61 ppb (parts per billion) which is roughly 60 times higher than they should be. Phoenix is showing aluminum levels of 39,000 ppm (the number should be closer to 2 ppm). There are reports linking these increased levels of heavy metals to dying trees in the west (weakening the bark of coconut trees in Hawaii).

[Parker2112]

http://consci.s3.amazonaws.com//images/lab12brn1.jpg
http://contrailscience.com/images/lab12brn1.jpg

http://consci.s3.amazonaws.com//images/lab12brn1.jpg

[Parker2112]

fuck that noise.

[Parker2112]

the science behind my observations:




CONTRAIL PHYSICS
Clifford E Carnicom
September 17 2000
A preliminary model has been developed to estimate the length of time that is
required for a contrail to dissipate. It is assumed within this
discussion that the contrail is composed of water vapor (per
historical definition). The model developed agrees extremely well
with the historical behavior and observation of contrails. The model
is not intended to encompass all variables that may be in effect, but
it does model reasonably well the expected behavior of water at
flight altitudes. Any errors will be corrected if and as they are
brought to my attention. It will be noted that this model is not a
function of relative humidity, as no basis from thermodynamics
has yet been established for it's inclusion. Any model based upon
the premise of "mixing" as the primary mechanism for dissipation
requires quantification to receive consideration. Cloud formation and the
introduction of aerosol particles to assist in their formation is an
entirely different discussion which is to be examined separately.
The conclusions that result from the study of this model are several:

1. Contrails composed of water vapor routinely dissipate, as the physics and
chemistry of this model will demonstrate. As a separate and distinct
set of events, clouds may form if temperature, relative humidity, and
aerosol conditions are favorable to their development. If "contrails"
by appearance transform into "clouds", it can be concluded that the
material of composition is not water vapor.

2.The conditions under consideration show that the ice crystals
within a contrail can warm to the melting point and subsequently melt
with the heat provided by solar radiation.

3. As demonstrated both by historical observation and this model, the
time expected for contrail dissipation is relatively short, e.g., 2
minutes or less. This assumes the contrail is composed essentially
of water vapor, per the classic definition (condensed trail).

4. The rate of contrail dissipation is highly dependent upon the
the size of the ice crystal particles and the amount of solar radiation.
Dependence upon relative humidity is not evident. 'Cloud'
formation from aircraft, should it occur, is dependent primarily upon
the temperature, the relative humidity, and the type and size of
aerosol particles(nuclei) that are introduced.

The basic form of the contrail dissipation model, based upon the
chemistry, mathematics and physics of thermodynamics is as follows:

time for dissipation = (mass of water crystal * (Q + heat of fusion))
/ power

where Q is the amount of heat required to increase the temperature of
a substance (ice).

or

t(sec) = (m (kg) * Ht(kj/kg)) / P(watts)

where t is the time required for contrail
dissipation(transformation), in seconds, m is the mass of the ice
crystal in kilograms, Ht is the heat of transformation of ice in
kilojoules per kilogram, and P is the power applied to the system in
watts.

Calculating the internal energy, or enthalpy, of water vapor often
involves several phase changes, as water varies between solid, liquid
and vapor under varying conditions of temperature and pressure. In
the case of a contrail composed of water vapor, the heat of
transformation will consist of two phases. The first is the amount
of heat required to raise the temperature of the ice crystal at a
sub-zero temperature to 0 deg. C., which will be designated as Q in
the present case. The second segment of heat required will be that
which melts the ice crystal to a liquid form. The primary processes
involved in contrail formation therefore appear to involve:

1. The emission of water vapor from the aircraft.
2. The freezing of the water vapor at sub-zero temperatures into ice
crystals.
3. The warming of the ice crystals to the melting point through solar
radiation.
4. The melting of the ice crystal with solar radiation to where the
water vapor once again no longer is visible. This returns the water
to the state from which it was emitted from the engine.

Let us now quantify the components of this model with elements that
are typical or representative of the conditions of contrail
formation:

Mass:

Assume that we have a cubed particle size (nucleated ice crystal) of
dimension d on a side, measured in microns(designate as u). Given
also that the density of ice is .917gm/cm3, the mass of the particle
is:

mass=(d(u) * (1E-6m/u))^3 * (1E6cm3/m3) * (.917gm/cm3) * (1E-3kg/cm3)

or

mass = (d^3 * 9.17E-16 cm3 gm kg m3) / ( m3 cm3 gm)


Q + Heat of Fusion:

Q is equal to the amount of heat required to increase the temperature
of the ice crystal from the ambient temperature to 0 deg. C. The
specific heat of ice is given as 4.21 kJ/(kg C) at 0 deg. C. The
specific heat varies only slightly with respect to temperature and
pressure, and this value will therefore be used. J refers to joules
of energy.

The heat of fusion of ice is 335kJ/kg. It requires this amount of
energy to melt ice.

Therefore, the amount of heat required to transform the ice crystal
is:

dQ + heat of fusion = 4.21 kJ/(kg C) * dT + 355kJ/kg

where dQ is the amount of heat entering the ice crystal, the heat of
fusion is the amount of heat required to melt the ice crystal, and dT
is the temperature change from the ambient air to 0 deg. in Celsius.

The model now becomes:

t(sec) = (d^3 * (9.17E-16)cm^3 gm kg m^3 * ((((4.21kJ/kg)*dT)/(kg C))
+ 355kj/kg)) / P * (m^3 cm^3 gm)

Power (P):

The energy of solar radiation is given in terms of watts/ square
meter. Representative values measured range approximaely from 200 to
700 watts/m^3. To arrive at the power applied to the ice crystal, we
will take the surface area of the crystal exposed perpendicularly to
the sunlight, and apply the solar radiation to it. The solar
radiation will be applied on a continuous basis to the surface area
until melting is complete.

Power absorbed = d^2 * (watts/m^2) * (1E-6m/u)^2

and since 1 watt = 1 joule/sec

Power absorbed = d^2 * (J/(m^2 s) * (1E-12) m^2/u^2

The model now becomes:

t(sec) = (d(u)^3 * (9.17E-16) cm3 gm kg m^3 * ((4.21kJ/kg * dT kJ/kg
C) + (335kj/kg))) / (d(u)^2 * (J/(m^2 s) * (1E-12) m^2 / u^2)

Simplifying:

t(sec) = ((d(u) * (9.17E-13) * (4.21dT + 335) J cm^3 gm kg m^3 s
m^2) / (Watts * 1E-12 J m^2 m^3 cm^3 gm kg)

or t(sec) = (d(u) * (9.17E-13) * (4.21dT + 335)) sec / (Watts *
1E-12)

or t(sec) = (d(u) * .917 * (-4.21T + 335)) / Watts/m2

where d is measured in microns, T is the air temperature where the
contrail forms, measured in Celsius, and solar radiation is in watts
per square meter.

Representative cases and the application of this model will now be
considered. Research indicates that the expected size of particles
emitted from aircraft ranges between 30 and 200 microns (Goethe MB -
Ground Based Passive Remote Sensing of Ice Clouds with Scattered
Solar Radiation in the Near Infrared - Max Planck Inst Meteorol).
The temperature of the air at flight altitudes commonly approaches
-50 deg. C. Solar radiation commonly ranges between 400 and 700
watts per square meter.

In the tables presented, d is the dimension of the ice crystal along
one side of the cube, T is the temperature of the ambient air where
the contrail forms (.e.g, 35000ft. MSL), and P is the solar radiation
in Watts/sq. m. t is the length of time that it requires for the
contrail, or ice crystal to dissipate (i.e., transform from ice to
water vapor).

d(microns) T(deg. C.) P(watts/sq. m) t(sec)

1 -50 600 1
10 -50 600 8
30 -50 600 25
50 -50 600 42
100 -50 600 83

1 -40 400 1
10 -40 400 12
30 -40 400 35
50 -40 400 58
100 -40 400 115

1 -30 700 1
10 -30 700 6
30 -30 700 18
50 -30 700 33
100 -30 700 60

This model covers the expected size range of any particles expected
to be emitted by aircraft; most airborne particles range between
0-100 microns. It is of interest that the particle sizes considered
in this model are generally considered to be too large to serve as
cloud condensation nuclei; the average expected size of cloud
condensation nuclei is extremely small, and on the order of .1 to .2
microns. A 10 micron particle is considered extremely large with
respect to cloud condensation nuclei. This size distinction, when
coupled with the results of the model above, further indicate the
need to consider cloud formation as a separate and distinct physical
process from that of contrail dissipation. That analysis would
necessarily consider the significant role that aerosol particles,
deliberately or otherwise introduced, would have on the cloud
nucleation and formation process.

As can be seen, the results of this model agree extremely well with
the observed properties of contrails over their historical existence.
This work is based upon the physical processes, chemistry and
mathematics of thermodynamics with respect to water and the various
phase states. Consideration has also been given to the phenomenon of
sublimation, and it has been found to be not applicable due to the
extremely low atmospheric pressure requirements for sublimation to
occur(P<.006atm). The greatest variation within this model is seen
to relate to particle size. It is seen that the contrails composed
of the smaller particles dissipate within 30 seconds or less, and
that the contrails composed of even relatively large particles are
expected to dissipate within a couple of minutes at most.

If the dissipation of an observed contrail does not conform to the
model above, and the corresponding physics and chemistry and math of
same, then the logical conclusion that can be drawn is that the
material of emission is not likely to be water vapor. As mentioned earlier, the
physics of cloud formation are an entirely separate process, and are
highly dependent upon temperature, relative humidity, aerosol type
and the size of aerosol particles that are introduced. Any
alterations in the formation of cloud processes as they have been
repeatedly observed and recorded must necessarily consider the impact
of these aerosols, identified and unidentified, within the analysis.
Prior attention given to microscopic hydrated salts remains a
priority in this research.

Clifford E Carnicom
September 16 2000
Authored at Lake Heron, NM



Manny come get some :flipoff

[Parker2112]

chump how you feel about the science above?

[ChumpDumper]

#1. http://www.holmestead.ca/chemtrails/soiltest.htmlSo the levels of aluminum in the field is about two to over four times higher than the level cited that "is a problem for most growing plants. The primary target for aluminum is the root cap. Therefore, it has a major impact on root growth and efficiency."

And yet, the site says the field "yields a good crop."

Something is not right.


#2. from the film:
Recent testing of the water in and around the city of Mount Shasta by a group of local citizens claims to have found levels of aluminum that are a danger to health.

Independent testing of several area water sources and the city’s water supply have found either no aluminum or trace amounts.

http://www.mtshastanews.com/news/x1176011800/New-tests-find-trace-or-no-aluminum-in-area-water

[Parker2112]

my understanding was the positive samples came from the snowpack on the mountain itself. I would have to go back and check out the film.

[ChumpDumper]

Really, can't folks make their own chemtrails to show us all what for?

Get a jet and some aluminum oxide, go high and spay it.

What are they waiting for?

[ChumpDumper]

my understanding was the positive samples came from the snowpack on the mountain itself. I would have to go back and check out the film.Why would there be aluminum in the snow but not the water supply which was once snow?

Are you saying the chemtrail settling that the patent says could take up to a year could be so controlled that it would only be found in high concentrations in the snowpack and not at all in the water supply?

That seems unlikely.

[Parker2112]

you did good work chump. Im out.

[MannyIsGod]

Carnicom's science is wrong. I stopped reading after #1. which is simply completely incorrect.


It will be noted that this model is not a
function of relative humidity, as no basis from thermodynamics
has yet been established for it's inclusion.

Considering the relative humidity and how quickly the cold air reaches a supersaturated level is the most important factor in the duration of contrails it is rather ridiculous to leave that out of his model.

[MannyIsGod]

http://consci.s3.amazonaws.com//images/lab12brn1.jpg
http://contrailscience.com/images/lab12brn1.jpg

http://consci.s3.amazonaws.com//images/lab12brn1.jpg

I'm supposed to be alarmed by extremely small measurements that are normally present?

[Blake]

this is not youtube:


CHEMTRAILS CONFIRMED

by

William Thomas



no real surprise this guy also has his hand in 911 conspiracies

http://www.willthomas.net/911/index.htm

[Wild Cobra]

I cant find the actual interview, and I did look to the Columbus Alive website's search feature. I know that Kucinich is not the head of the armed services oversight committee at present, he is chair of another subcommittee I think, on domestic government oversight. So I cant vouch for this with 100% certainty, but it definitely needs to be dealt with before the contention reaches laughable status
Thing is, if he was actually privy to a classified experiment, he would go to jail for talking about it, which means he is talking out his ass.

[Wild Cobra]

kucinich is chopped liver? he would make such a claim in the press without first-hand knowledge? You really think?

He has always been a joke.

[Wild Cobra]

A must read for those with an open mind:

Jet trails just water vapor, not sprayed chemicals,
experts say (http://www-pm.larc.nasa.gov/newcontrail/nash_tenn_contrails_11292006.pdf)

[Wild Cobra]

contrails can only form at temperatures below minus 76 degrees, and humidity levels of 70 percent or more.
Bullshit.

Somebody's lying here.

[Wild Cobra]

http://consci.s3.amazonaws.com//images/lab12brn1.jpg
http://contrailscience.com/images/lab12brn1.jpg

http://consci.s3.amazonaws.com//images/lab12brn1.jpg
Was this analysis right after the 4th of July?

Those are common fireworks chemicals.

[Wild Cobra]

Another must read:

EPA; Aircraft Contrails Factsheet (http://www.epa.gov/oms/regs/nonroad/aviation/contrails.pdf)

[LnGrrrR]

fail. you cant even make a single intelligent correlation between chemtrails and the bullshit that RG spouted off about, which was dealt with pages ago. And yet you continue to carry the torch like your life depends on it.

Again, this has nothing to do with chemtrails. This is about unicorn meat, which you arrogantly dismiss without evidence. Fail.

[LnGrrrR]

Btw, the Joint Vision 20/20 calls for air/space dominance (among other things like global reachback, agile support, etc etc). That has nothing to do with chemtrails.

[MannyIsGod]

Bullshit.

Somebody's lying here.

Yeah that is completely wrong.

[LnGrrrR]

Was this analysis right after the 4th of July?

Those are common fireworks chemicals.

WC, if you look at the sample date, it was January 7th. Of course, I know a lot of places that light off fireworks in the New Year.

[Winehole23]

WC continues to school Parker. Nice.

[Wild Cobra]

WC, if you look at the sample date, it was January 7th. Of course, I know a lot of places that light off fireworks in the New Year.
No kidding, guess I should have included more. I just assumed because of the chemical makeup, it was right after the 4th. Of course then, there is Cinco de Mayo, and other times when the fireworks go off too!

You know, I just glanced at the chemicals, didn't even note the date.

[Parker2112]

No kidding, guess I should have included more. I just assumed because of the chemical makeup, it was right after the 4th. Of course then, there is Cinco de Mayo, and other times when the fireworks go off too!

You know, I just glanced at the chemicals, didn't even note the date.

Typical "skepticism at all costs." Reality be damned. And now that you've been checked, don't forget...you still haven't dealt with the numbers.

[Parker2112]

WC continues to school Parker. Nice.

self pwn much?

[Winehole23]

Occasionally. But I've never seen anything like you for it. The self-pwning seldom stops with you. This thread is a glittering example.

[LnGrrrR]

Parker, always skeptical of the numbers that don't side his way. Of course he is never skeptical of the lone nut.

[Parker2112]

LnG, you dont even understand wtf just happened buddy. rif.

[LnGrrrR]

LnG, you dont even understand wtf just happened buddy. rif.

Parker, all you do is post a few lone nutter's numbers and steadfastly ignore any evidence not in your favor.

[Parker2112]

Parker, all you do is post a few lone nutter's numbers and steadfastly ignore any evidence not in your favor.

didnt you just ignore what just happened to make your comment? Now your ignoring the fact that you self pwned as well? Pot call kettle black? :downspin:

[Wild Cobra]

Parker, every time you post something you think is evidence, you get shot down. Why continue?

[Parker2112]

Parker, every time you post something you think is evidence, you get shot down. Why continue?

shot down with a theory that defies all logic? 4th of july in January?


:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[Parker2112]

This thread is full of so much "debunking" fail it wreaks.

1) chemtrails dont exist
2) contrails are chemtrails
3) Kucinich sponsors legislation he doesnt really read or comprehend
4) extraterrestrial weapons are based on alien intel
5) contrails, chemtrails and clouds all work the same
6) ignore the patent to hughes aircraft laying out a chemtrail program
7) 4th of july in january

And I could go on....

:tu

[Parker2112]

Chump made great headway in debunking the evidence presented. The rest of you failed time and time again. :tu

[Wild Cobra]

shot down with a theory that defies all logic? 4th of july in January?


:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao
You missed the point and LnGrrrR's correction I see.

[Parker2112]

you missed the printed date written clearly and in English I see, lol

[Wild Cobra]

you missed the printed date written clearly and in English I see, lol
So?

You missed my explanation. Already covered.

[Parker2112]

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168611

see 6:55 of the OP.

[Parker2112]

So?

You missed my explanation. Already covered.

If you want to talk about fail, you can start with your reading skills

[Wild Cobra]

If you want to talk about fail, you can start with your reading skills
My skills?

This is about the foolish notion that contrails are chemtrails.

Come on now. Only form at -70 degrees and colder?

That's a big lie.

Don't persist? Another lie.

If you want to be taken serious, you have to show actual evidence. Not BS that is so easily shot down, like the above, and the find of fire works chemical trace markers after the New Year.

[Parker2112]

i believe kucinich

[Wild Cobra]

i believe kucinich
Then you're a lemming libtard.

[Parker2112]

Then you're a lemming libtard.

He is very close to a libertarian. You are a joke who claims to be a libertarian.

[LnGrrrR]

Parker, are you aware that many places in the US light off fireworks on New Years?

[Wild Cobra]

He is very close to a libertarian. You are a joke who claims to be a libertarian.
He's a fucking joke anyway.

As I said before, libertarians can be anywhere from left to right ideology. They are simply anti-authoritarian. He is to the loony left of the scale, and contrails form at -40 degrees. Not -70. That's a big difference.

[Winehole23]

i believe kucinichKucinich backed away from it. Didn't you catch that?

[Winehole23]

You are a joke who claims to be a libertarian.Turn it around on yourself, tough guy.

You are a joke who claims to be libertarian, but really you just parrot whatever fringy thing you recently linked to from Infowars. Big difference.

[Winehole23]

Let them see what is on the end of that long newspaper spoon.

[Blake]

Parker, are you aware that many places in the US light off fireworks on New Years?

5MTaAJ87zGc

lol 4th of July in January

[MannyIsGod]

Turn it around on yourself, tough guy.

You are a joke who claims to be libertarian, but really you just parrot whatever fringy thing you recently linked to from Infowars. Big difference.

:wow

[mouse]

As long as you wannabee Whottts don't make any posts that the earth is 4 billion years old,Man evolved form an ape,WTC7 fell due to some small fires,or NASA doesn't lie to the public your safe in my book.

:corn:

[Blake]

As long as you wannabee Whottts don't make any posts that the earth is 4 billion years old,Man evolved form an ape,WTC7 fell due to some small fires,or NASA doesn't lie to the public your safe in my book.

:corn:

safe from what?

[mouse]

safe from what?

From being humiliated and embarrassed from my vast knowledge in these matters and expert debating skills I humbly posses.
But you should know that by now with the multiple times I have schooled you in the past.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144487

[MannyIsGod]

I don't argue with crazy people. I just tell them to STFU. Right, Mouse?

[mouse]

I don't argue with crazy people. I just tell them to STFU. Right, Mouse?

Why argue when you can just debate? I'm sure many people in our world from Eisenstein to Steve Jobs was called crazy at one time or another.


Pulling out the mental card is a cop out I rather you just say "I'm bias and only debate with people I like" It would make more sense.


I on the other hand don't judge people by their online postings I try and treat everyone the same when I am educating them regardless how much of an ass they are.
The truth is the mentality level in this forum is sub par for my taste and is why I try and avoid conversations with the brain dead.

In a nutshell this forum is beneath me and doesn't really appreciate my talents.

In my humble opinion.

[Blake]

From being humiliated and embarrassed from my vast knowledge in these matters and expert debating skills I humbly posses.
But you should know that by now with the multiple times I have schooled you in the past.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144487

anyone passing one of your schoolings automatically fails by definition.

Linking an example to such failure was unnecessary since the entire messageboard world knows this to be true.

[Parker2112]

Turn it around on yourself, tough guy.

You are a joke who claims to be libertarian, but really you just parrot whatever fringy thing you recently linked to from Infowars. Big difference.

Pretty far off the mark. I don't bother with mainstream reporting anymore you guys get that through the MSM.

I think about 40-60% of the stuff at infowars is folks hawking something or other...I dont bother with shit about slow kill programs, about Obama as CIA, etc.

However, they led the way on the Fed and on debunking the two party paradigm. They led the way on the TSA and they keep trying to rally support for true change in those areas.

So I dont see a problem posting the shit, no one else has the balls, and they are leading the way on things outside of MSM. So whats your problem with that?

And as for shit like fluoride, take a good look at any libertarian candidate, and many local party pages and you will see at at the top.

On Kucinich: And where did Kucinich back off his statements?

On WC's 4th of July debacle: he mispoke, as he is known to do. He couldnt even immediately recover, and I dont know if he wouldve without LnG pointing him towards New Years (which was obvious even to me).

[Blake]

So I dont see a problem posting the shit, no one else has the balls, and they are leading the way on things outside of MSM. So whats your problem with that?


nothing at all wrong with posting this shit.

defending this shit after 14 pages though is ridiculous.

Thus the ridicule.

[XMas TRoLL]

nothing at all wrong with posting this shit.

defending this shit after 14 pages though is ridiculous.

Thus the ridicule.

Should 12 pages be the new limit?

[Blake]

Should 12 pages be the new limit?

ridicule has no real limits. It depends on the situation.

[RandomGuy]

ridicule has no real limits. It depends on the situation.

I agree.

If you post shit like "chem-trails" you deserve to have your nose rubbed in it endlessly, being given the moniker "chem-trail boy" to remind everybody that you believe stupid shit and have poor standards of evidence.

[RandomGuy]

Kucinich recently told the Columbus Alive newspaper (Jan. 24, 2002) that despite official denials, as head of the Armed Services oversight committee he is well acquainted with chemtrail projects. “The truth is there’s an entire program in the Department of Defense, ‘Vision for 2020,’ that’s developing these weapons,” Kucinich told reporter Bob Fitrakis.


as i said they reported it.

Source link to original article?

The only person saying that Dennis Kucinich was referring to "chemtrails" when he was talking about "these weapons" is Mr. Thomas.

I was completely unable to locate the original article to determine the original context of the quote.

For all I know "these weapons" might have been Mr. Kucinich talking about arrows made from unicorn horns left over after the canning of their meat.

I will say it again for emphasis:

Source link to original Columbus Alive article?

[RandomGuy]

Kucinich knew perfectly well that the word "extraterrestrial weapons" in the bills original wording meant space alien technology, because the people who actually wrote the original bill's language meant it in that manner.


if you stretch the intent enough, you get the conclusion you want. But you cant reach that conclusion [that Kucinich meant "extraterrestrial weapsons" to mean "space alien technology"] in good faith unless you impute it to Kucinich too. Is that what your saying?

Actually that is what *you* are saying.


#3. If you think that Kucinich didnt know thet language was in the bill, regardless of who wrote it, you are on crack. And that is his effective endorsement of the language, which amounts to the same thing as him drafting it for all intents and purposes. Nothing to see here.




:lmao

http://www.trephination.net/gallery/macros/birdcrappedonkid2.jpg

[RandomGuy]

By the by, the film in the OP is debunked here:
http://contrailscience.com/what-in-the-world-are-they-spraying/

That website seems to be the best clearinghouse for information. Here is an excerpt from the section on this specific house bill:

http://contrailscience.com/kucinich-chemtrails-and-hr-2977/



Kucinich’s motivations are perhaps revealed by his speech to the house on May 18th, 2005, introducing a newer version of the bill:


“What has happened to our country? Why are we projecting fear and paranoia to such heights? Have we so lost our way and our faith that we are prepared to transform the heavens into hell? If the kingdom and the will of God is to be done on earth as it is in heaven, what is to happen when the United States takes nuclear fire up to the gates of heaven?
“Such an offense against humanity could bring the wrath of God upon this nation.”

So Kucinich thinks that space based weapons will offend God, since space is close to heaven, and if you put nuclear weapons near heaven then God will be offended and bring his wrath against us.

If you actually ARE a conspiracy theorist, then all this will come as little surprise to you. You will already believe the government is covering up technology based on crashed UFOs. Yet HR2977 is constantly being mentioned solely to make the case that “chemtrails” are something the government is aware of. The reality is that they were simply given a passing mention in bill written by new-age UFO conspiracy theorists and sponsored by an eccentric politician, all of who believe in things that are far more unusual than “chemtrails”. [emphasis mine-RG]

[RandomGuy]

What exactly did the DoD say Parker?


read the thread. WC did the research. Then he couldn't interpret his findings, but what he found was important nonetheless.

Here we have a fun exchange, in which Mr. Parker is asked to say exactly what the DOD said.

Mr. Parker implies rather strongly that Kucinich was told to shut up by the DOD, and not mention chemtrails in the bill.


Kucinich tried to stop the activity. DOD nipped that shit in the bud. Thats all I need to know WC.

it doesnt mention chemtrails cuz the word was redacted after DOD told Kucinich that refraining from chemtrail activity was not an option. The new bill left out any mention. Follow?

On what exactly does it seem Mr. Parker has made this fairly specific claim?

What did Wild Corbra find?


4/19/2002:
Unfavorable Executive Comment [about the bill in general] Received from DOD.

"unfavorable comment"

The question remains unanswered by Mr. Parker.

What *exactly* did the DOD say about the mention of "chemtrails" in the initial draft of the bill, Parker?

[Wild Cobra]

What did Wild Corbra find?

I found that there were other things than Chem Trails that could have been unfavorable, and almost proof positive since Chem Trails weren't mentioned in the second bull, yet had the same problems passing.

Parker... Do you read what you want between imaginary lines?

[MannyIsGod]

Lots of upper level cold air today with a decent amount of humidity and what do you get? LOTS AND LOTS OF CHEMTRAILS!

[ChumpDumper]

What's the chemtrail forecast. Should I stay inside today?

[MannyIsGod]

I went for a walk today. Was warm compared to the temps lately (balmy 28 or so) so I probably will pay the price for this by developing some sad form of cancer from the chemtrails.

[CosmicCowboy]

I've been coughing and hocking up buttloads of nasty flem but I thought it was just allergies from Cedar Pollen.

Glad to know theres a logical explanation.

[Blake]

I've been coughing and hocking up buttloads of nasty flem but I thought it was just allergies from Cedar Pollen.

Glad to know theres a logical explanation.

you may want to get checked out for sementrails.

[RandomGuy]

Bump. Because I can. Comedy. Gold.

[Wild Cobra]

Bump. Because I can. Comedy. Gold.
LOL...

Bumping a thread not active for two days?

[RandomGuy]

LOL...

Bumping a thread not active for two days?

Well Parker has logged on recently. I would hate for him to miss an opportunity to dig his hole deeper. :lol


Last Activity: Yesterday 05:20 PM

[Wild Cobra]

Well Parker has logged on recently. I would hate for him to miss an opportunity to dig his hole deeper. :lol
I think I killed the thermite thread...

[Blake]

I think I killed the thermite thread...

it was already DOA.

[RandomGuy]

it was already DOA.

I am so glad the whole "truther" movement seems to have imploded a bit.

The whole controlled demolition schtick got stale years ago.

It is funny to see the conspiracy theorists backpeddle and fall into infighting though.

I will re-visit some old truther websites to see what the State of Stupidity is these days.

[RandomGuy]

bump.

[RandomGuy]

Anyone else notice that Parker has abandoned his steaming turd of a thread here?

[Winehole23]

Don't worry. Whenever he finds a new wrinkle or a related news item, he'll be back to collect that turd as a trophy.

[RandomGuy]

Don't worry. Whenever he finds a new wrinkle or a related news item, he'll be back to collect that turd as a trophy.

Indeed.

[RandomGuy]

Bump.

What are they putting in our water?

[Wild Cobra]

Bump.

What are they putting in our water?
Dihydrogen oxide maybe?

[RandomGuy]

Dihydrogen oxide maybe?

Scary!

Bump, cause Parker seems up for it.

[RandomGuy]

Parker,

You might be interested in this.

w3qFdbUEq5s

That video is still comedy gold.

It sums up all that is wrong with the "chemtrails" in a nutshell.

[RandomGuy]

Just in case Parker wants to polish this turd.

[Agloco]

w3qFdbUEq5s

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183526

:stirpot:

[RandomGuy]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183526

:stirpot:

If only we required a *bit* more science education, indeed.

It has been my experience that no small part of conspiracy theory has its origins in bunk science.

[clambake]

would this spraying have any effect on a cube of butter?

[RandomGuy]

would this spraying have any effect on a cube of butter?

and would that butter fill up the Superdome?

[mouse]

Mouse haters drinks on me!

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/RackTheMouse/raditation-mouse-milk.gif

[Agloco]

Mouse haters drinks on me!

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/RackTheMouse/raditation-mouse-milk.gif

Lemme guess, they're spraying radioactive iodine and cesium into the supply right?:lol

[mouse]

Finish your milk before you engage in conversation your not qualified to comment on.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/RackTheMouse/radiation.jpg

[ChumpDumper]

What do you think they are spraying, mouse?

[Agloco]

Mouse, youre too funny. I hope we get a chance to have a beer together one of these days. You prefer Sapporo or Ichiban?

[RandomGuy]

Boink. Looks like Agloco has already read it. heh.

[Agloco]

Boink. Looks like Agloco has already read it. heh.

Yeah, I had completely forgotten about this thread......

rofl.

[Winehole23]

coal fly ash?

http://www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/12/8/9375/htm

[SpursforSix]

coal fly ash?

http://www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/12/8/9375/htm

Interesting to see if this makes any kind of splash.

[Winehole23]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDPI

[Winehole23]

http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1307/1307.1692.pdf

[pgardn]

http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1307/1307.1692.pdf

Why?

I may have missed something so how does this fit in?

[Winehole23]

not sure it does. just wanted to see which posters carry the torch.

[SpursforSix]

not sure it does. just wanted to see which posters carry the torch.

shit...my torch went out before I could get through the first page

[RandomGuy]

not sure it does. just wanted to see which posters carry the torch.

Heh, an oldy but a goodie.