Taxes 2011

[Wild Cobra]

The $858 billion package now goes to the House, where many Democrats are unhappy with a provision that allows estates as large as $10 million to pass to heirs tax-free. Democratic leaders, however, say they expect the bill to ultimately pass and become law.
The bill passed by the Senate, 81-19, would extend them for two years.
Senate acts; Keeping tax rates intact up to House (http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2010/12/15/general-us-tax-cuts_8205840.html)

[George Gervin's Afro]

Senate acts; Keeping tax rates intact up to House (http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2010/12/15/general-us-tax-cuts_8205840.html)


Well this should shut up the Republicans about being concerned with the deficits.. the same deficits they were concerend with prior to the recent congressional elections..

[DarrinS]

Keeping tax rates the same infuriates Dems, for whatever reason.

[Wild Cobra]

Well this should shut up the Republicans about being concerned with the deficits.. the same deficits they were concerend with prior to the recent congressional elections..
Only in the eyes of fools.

Taxes vs. revenue is dynamic, not static. It is just a political lie to say that they would have an additional $858 billion without this. Taxing more would reduce some on the econiomic activity, and produce less revenue that the said $858 billion. It's even possible that tax revenues on other citizens due to employment changes would drop dramatically. That with the rich sheltering more money could easily yield even less than the said $$858 billion if these taxes were restored.

Now what I don't like is the reduction of SS insurance. If anything, we need to increase that slightly, maybe to 6.5% or so. Just a modest increase.

[Wild Cobra]

Keeping tax rates the same infuriates Dems, for whatever reason.
I think you forget.

All money in the USA belongs to them. They get to determine how much we get to keep.

At least that is their approach.

[boutons_deux]

The Repug/conservative fear-mongering about a deficit was/is a huge lie, like all their "principles"

While fear-mongering about the deficit, the Repugs did everything possible to ignore the unemployed, and impede the Dems from helping the unemployed. For the Regugs, the unemployed were to be exploited to extort enrichment of the super-wealthy.

and of course, the SS 2% cut to made repaid by govt, puts SS in the deficit/budget picture for the first time. Removing the 2% cut will be lied about again as a tax increase.

The downward death spiral of the lower 98% continues, which is the primary objective of Repugs and conservatives.

[Wild Cobra]

Nobody's given me an answer yet. Anyone know who sneaked in the 2% SS reduction?

It's not in the bill, and too many amendments to search.

HR 4853 (http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-111hr4853eah/pdf/BILLS-111hr4853eah.pdf)

[LnGrrrR]

I'm glad that they took out the "death tax" for the most part. I don't really agree with that one.

[Wild Cobra]

Just called my congressman's office. His aid had no answer for me, except I might be able to find it in one of the 11 related bills.

[CosmicCowboy]

Nobody's given me an answer yet. Anyone know who sneaked in the 2% SS reduction?

It's not in the bill, and too many amendments to search.

HR 4853 (http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-111hr4853eah/pdf/BILLS-111hr4853eah.pdf)

My guess is it came out of the compromise session. Obama probably wanted to extend the earned income tax credits and the counter-offer was probably the SS cuts for everyone...

[Wild Cobra]

My guess is it came out of the compromise session. Obama probably wanted to extend the earned income tax credits and the counter-offer was probably the SS cuts for everyone...
I still don't like it.

Don't get me wrong, I will save far more than the "making work pay" that it's replacing. I just don't believe we need lower SS rates. Just calculated...

I will save between $1,400 to $1,600, over the $400 it's replacing. Maybe more, depending on promotions and overtime!

[MannyIsGod]

2% across the board SS reduction?

[CosmicCowboy]

2% across the board SS reduction?

Just the employee side. Employers still pay 6.5%.

[DarrinS]

I don't think the govt is ever justified in taking more than a third of your money, even if you're some 20-ish billionaire punk who created a worthless social networking software for other self-absorbed narcissists.


http://www.nypost.com/rw/nypost/2010/12/15/news/photos_stories/US-MEDIA-IT-INTERNET-FACEBOOK-AWARD090305--300x450.jpg

[MannyIsGod]

Does that cut have an expiration date?

[CosmicCowboy]

Does that cut have an expiration date?

one year

[ElNono]

I gather the Tea Party is up in arms about this?
BTW, I don't ever want to hear again that Keynesianism is exclusive to one party...

[Winehole23]

Keeping tax rates the same infuriates Dems, for whatever reason.Adding nearly another trillion to the deficit seems to please the GOP, for whatever reason.

Oh right, tax cuts.

[DarrinS]

Adding nearly another trillion to the deficit seems to please the GOP, for whatever reason.

Oh right, tax cuts.



It's very convenient how you can always raise taxes, but you can never unspend what you have already spent.

[Winehole23]

Irrefutable. Also, non-sequitur.

[boutons_deux]

"please the GOP, for whatever reason"

come on, you know their obvious, stated game.

bigger deficits means cutting spending/shrink govt on poor, sick and young, non-whites, until it can be drowned in a bathtub, leaving MIC, BigFood, carbon extractor tax cuts/subsidies, etc untouched.

The 2% SS is the worst new cut, since it exposes SS to general deficit problem, moving it into the Repug firing range and towards destruction, aka, privatization.

[Winehole23]

Last time the GOP tried to destroy it, they got destroyed at the polls. Coincidence?

[TeyshaBlue]

Last time the GOP tried to destroy it, they got destroyed at the polls. Coincidence?

They don't call it the "third rail" for nothing.

[boutons_deux]

Last time the Repugs ran the govt, they screwed it up and got kicked out on their ass, now they get voted back in after prolonging and deepening their screwed economy.

Americans have a short memory. Repugs will kill SS, rape Medicare and Medicaid, defund health reform, get voted out. Americans are too stupid, esp the right wingers, and amnesiac to make the Repugs wander around out of power for very long.

[ElNono]

Only in the eyes of fools.

Taxes vs. revenue is dynamic, not static. It is just a political lie to say that they would have an additional $858 billion without this. Taxing more would reduce some on the econiomic activity, and produce less revenue that the said $858 billion. It's even possible that tax revenues on other citizens due to employment changes would drop dramatically. That with the rich sheltering more money could easily yield even less than the said $$858 billion if these taxes were restored.

Bullshit premise. Considering we're already deep in the red, any additional spending goes into the national credit card, which we will have to pay for at some point, but will include interest. It's very likely this $800+ billion will cost us well upwards of 1 trillion once you add up said interest.

Not once, ever, tax cuts have paid for themselves in the form of recouped revenue due to growth. Not once. This is not going to be the exception unfortunately. This is really no different than a $1 trillion 'stimulus package' on it's face.

[Wild Cobra]

just the employee side. Employers still pay 6.5%.
6.2% SS, 1.45% medicare.

[Wild Cobra]

bigger deficits means cutting spending/shrink govt on poor, sick and young, non-whites, until it can be drowned in a bathtub, leaving MIC, BigFood, carbon extractor tax cuts/subsidies, etc untouched.

Can you for once, step off your soap box?


The 2% SS is the worst new cut, since it exposes SS to general deficit problem, moving it into the Repug firing range and towards destruction, aka, privatization.

Now I agree but disagree with you.

This should not count as adding to the deficit, because SS should not be used as part of the revenue used for spending, outside of SS. That said, I think the SS rate does need to be a little higher than it is today.

[Wild Cobra]

Bullshit premise. Considering we're already deep in the red, any additional spending goes into the national credit card, which we will have to pay for at some point, but will include interest. It's very likely this $800+ billion will cost us well upwards of 1 trillion once you add up said interest.

Not once, ever, tax cuts have paid for themselves in the form of recouped revenue due to growth. Not once. This is not going to be the exception unfortunately. This is really no different than a $1 trillion 'stimulus package' on it's face.
You don't know what you are talking about, and I'm not going to take the time to explain it right now.

I will say this much. What right does anyone have to say that collecting less in revenue is costing money. the government needs to spend within it's means and stop finding new ways to spend money.

Fuck you, and fuck them, for thinking they come before us.

[Crookshanks]

Only in Washington does keeping the tax rates the same translate to a tax cut and raising budget spending items by 5% instead of 10% over the current budget is considered a budget cut. Talk about fuzzy math...

[ElNono]

You don't know what you are talking about, and I'm not going to take the time to explain it right now.

There's nothing to explain. Maybe they didn't teach you basic math in part-changer school, but it's nothing more than that.


I will say this much. What right does anyone have to say that collecting less in revenue is costing money. the government needs to spend within it's means and stop finding new ways to spend money.

It's costing money because there are no cost cutting measures included in the bill that will offset for the loss of revenue. Since the government has no plans to reduce spending, and since it's already on the red, it will have to borrow in order to make up for the difference. Since the government can't borrow at 0% interest, the actual cost of this will escalate to much more than $800+ billion.

Now, if you want to bitch and moan about how much government spends, then start another thread. This is not what is being discussed here. It's a FACT that these tax cuts will cost all of us well over a trillion when the time comes to pay it back. The way the government is borrowing and kicking it forward is *exactly* the same as any 'stimulus package'.


Fuck you, and fuck them, for thinking they come before us.

WTF are you babbling about? lol, u mad