Mark Cuban " Dirk will go down as top 10 NBA player of all time"

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

On how we'll view Dirk Nowitzki when he hangs it up:
"Oh, as a top-10 all-time player, no question. It's funny because over the years as we've had guys come onto the team from other teams, everybody's got their opinion, but when you see it day-in and day-out, your opinion changes. ... He contributes in every which way and when it's all said and done we're going to look back and know that he's top 10."

Discuss

[Gold Tooth Carl]

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[lefty]

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat ????????????????????????????????????

[toki9]

Not likely without a ring...just off the top of my head, I'd put the following ahead of him: Jordan, Russell, Dr J, Chamberlain, Bird, Magic, Kareem, West, Kobe, Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem...and then there are those without rings who were probably still better than Dirk: Barkley, Malone, Stockton, Ewing (Maybe?)...Maybe Dirk could crack top 20? Maybe?

[Greg Oden]

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat ????????????????????????????????????

lefty, without his usual goods.

[Gold Tooth Carl]

Top 10 all time choker, yes

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

top 20 imo, maybe with a ring Dirty can move up

[Rummpd]

Duncan > Garnett > Dirk in the last 15 years or so. Nothing against Dirk but Gasol is chasing him rather than Dirk passing either Garnett or Duncan on all time great.

[u4lakers14]

easily top ten that are playing right now, maybe even top 5.

all time? sorry, but not without delivering the ultimate prize. that might seem harsh, and with a better supporting cast he probably would have.

i dont think he has really slowed down yet in his career, in fact he seems to maybe be playing his best ball ever, but the window will eventually close.

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

Duncan you have a point because of his dominance and rings. But KG??? lol

[BRHornet45]

Top 50? Yea ... top 10? LMAO

[Budkin]

All time?? No fucking way.

[GuerillaBlack]

Players better than Dirk that are retired: Jordan, Hakeem, Magic, Kareem, Larry Bird, Dr. J, Barkley, Russell, Drexler, Chamberlain, Moses, Stockton, Malone, and I know I'm forgetting some others.

Players that are still playing that are better than Dirk now, and/or will be higher on the All-Time list: Kobe, LeBron, Shaq, Wade, Duncan

So, top ten for Dirk? LOL.

[Darthkiller]

he is not even top 10 this decade.

[SourCandy]

top 20 imo, maybe with a ring Dirty can move up

This.

[Cry Havoc]

Even with a ring Dirk wouldn't be top 10. He's a hell of a player, no doubt about it. But he's not very good on defense. It just dooms him because when you get into the top 10 all-time you're talking about guys that positively impact the game every second they're on the floor.

Dirk might be top 20 All-time when he hangs them up.

[lefty]

Top 50 Europe TBH

[Greg Oden]

he is not even top 10 this decade.

name 10 better

[Fpoonsie]

On the offensive side of the ball, I wouldn't argue. There's simply been no one with his size AND unbelievable stroke.

Obviously, his D is still highly suspect, which severely hurts his case for top 10. If he can get a ring (and I sincerely hope he finally does), and learn to really start using that length to his advantage, who knows?

[Hooks]

All that talent and money and Cuban still can't win a ship, such a waste. Dirk lacks the rings to be a top 10 player of all time. Dirk will go down as one of the greatest PF's of all time, prolly the best offensive PF ever but far from a top 10 NBA player of all time.

[monosylab1k]

He's not top 10, probably not top 20, debatably top 30. Cuban being Cuban. Not even I can troll Spurfans as well as he can.

[Darthkiller]

name 10 better

Shaq
Duncan
Kobe
Dwade
Lebron
Jordan
Nash
Ginobili
Gasol
Kidd

[monosylab1k]

Shaq
Duncan
Kobe
Dwade
Lebron
Jordan
Nash
Ginobili
Gasol
Kidd

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao :lmao:lmao:lmao

You're going to count Wizards-era Jordan????? You really must have been struggling for names after LeBron.

[monosylab1k]

seriously, I've never seen a list that pathetic in all my life.

[monosylab1k]

well, not counting lakaluva listing his sexual conquests.

[monosylab1k]

my god, i'm going all peewee's lovechild with the nonstop one sentence replies.

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

Shaq
Duncan
Kobe
Dwade
Lebron
Jordan
Nash
Ginobili
Gasol
Kidd

:lmao
Go back to the Pistons board

[Greg Oden]

that list is sad beyond belief. i was seriously waiting to see Webber on there.

[monosylab1k]

that list is sad beyond belief. i was seriously waiting to see Webber on there.

He was probably 2 or 3 names away from listing Peja.

[Fpoonsie]

He's not top 10, probably not top 20, debatably top 30. Cuban being Cuban. Not even I can troll Spurfans as well as he can.

Honestly, and forgive me while I go all GNSF for a second, I don't see why Cubes would be even suggesting this. I know he loves Dirk, but insisting that Dirk will go down amongst the elite all-time only seems to paint Cuban in an even more negative light due to his inability to bring a 'chip to DAL.

[Killakobe81]

the past two decades:

better: Shaq, Duncan, and Kobe definitely.

in the discussion with dirk: Wade, Lebron, TMAC, Kidd ...

I think a title may push wade over if he finishes his carer strong and Wade wins more and dirk none ...but Some of you guys are underrating dirk, here. Of course Cuban is overrating him ...but dirk deserves respect. Now Im here in dallas and watch almost as mant Mavs games as Laker games it has confirmed what i already knew offensively dirk is a badass and he has improved on defense (yes he used to suck) and as a passer ...

[u4lakers14]

he is not even top 10 this decade.

mav fan perspective

1st decade of this century
1. 2000
2. 2001
3. 2002
4. 2003
5. 2004
6. 2005
7. 2006
8. 2007
9. 2008
10. 2009

hes easily top ten in this decade. (2010-)

[monosylab1k]

Honestly, and forgive me while I go all GNSF for a second, I don't see why Cubes would be even suggesting this. I know he loves Dirk, but insisting that Dirk will go down amongst the elite all-time only seems to paint Cuban in an even more negative light due to his inability to bring a 'chip to DAL.

it's just Cuban. His love for Dirk is borderline sexual. Dirk winning MVP was like Cuban's happiest moment in his life.

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

the past two decades:

better: Shaq, Duncan, and Kobe definitely.

in the discussion with dirk: Wade, Lebron, TMAC, Kidd ...

I think a title may push wade over if he finishes his carer strong and Wade wins more and dirk none ...but Some of you guys are underrating dirk, here. Of course Cuban is overrating him ...but dirk deserves respect. Now Im here in dallas and watch almost as mant Mavs games as Laker games it has confirmed what i already knew offensively dirk is a badass and he has improved on defense (yes he used to suck) and as a passer ...

My nigga with the goods

[kamikazi_player]

Shaq
Duncan
Kobe
Dwade
Lebron
Jordan
Nash
Ginobili
Gasol
Kidd

List is terrible, but you could have put KG instead of Jordan if you were desperate enough.:lol

[Blake]

Honestly, and forgive me while I go all GNSF for a second, I don't see why Cubes would be even suggesting this. I know he loves Dirk, but insisting that Dirk will go down amongst the elite all-time only seems to paint Cuban in an even more negative light due to his inability to bring a 'chip to DAL.

even blue named mav fan knows thats mostly true.

he'd most likely be hyping Nash in a similar manner had he stayed and won a ring with Dirk.

[Muser]

I'd put him in the top 20, and he's probably the second or third best player without a ring I can think of off the top of my head.

[lefty]

I'd put him in the top 20, and he's probably the second or third best player without a ring I can think of off the top of my head.
Barkley
Malone
Stockton
Kevin Johnson
Ewing

[Blake]

Gasol


I might be wrong, but I don't think Gasol has ever gotten one single MVP vote in the history of ever.

I like him as a choice over Dirk though. :tu

[kamikazi_player]

Barkley
Malone
Stockton
Kevin Johnson
Ewing

I would put him probably behind Barkley and Stockton. I would say probably even with Malone and better than Ewing and Johnson.

[lefty]

I would put him probably behind Barkley and Stockton. I would say probably even with Malone and better than Ewing and Johnson.
To be fair, KJ and Ewing played in a much tougher era

[GuerillaBlack]

the past two decades:

better: Shaq, Duncan, and Kobe definitely.

in the discussion with dirk: Wade, Lebron, TMAC, Kidd ...

I think a title may push wade over if he finishes his carer strong and Wade wins more and dirk none ...but Some of you guys are underrating dirk, here. Of course Cuban is overrating him ...but dirk deserves respect. Now Im here in dallas and watch almost as mant Mavs games as Laker games it has confirmed what i already knew offensively dirk is a badass and he has improved on defense (yes he used to suck) and as a passer ...

I'd have to agree here. I actually work at the AAC, so I get to go in and see some Mavs games, and Dirk is definitely a great player. A beast offensively and has gotten better defensively. And he knows he's good. Just puts up contested/guarded jumpers and starts walking back before they go in, with an ugly ass smile on his face.

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

Johnnson and Ewing?? No

[kamikazi_player]

Still I think be had a better career overall than those two, maybe in a year or so he'll pass Malone.

[lefty]

Add Kobe and Shaq to the list of great players who have never won a legit title.

[mindcrime]

Duncan you have a point because of his dominance and rings. But KG??? lol

KG was a beast in his prime.

[SpursDynasty85]

Duncan you have a point because of his dominance and rings. But KG??? lol



KG and Dirk is very debatable. KG's first 10 years was greater than Dirk's first 10. Dirk is more a catalyst for his Mavs than KG, but KG is being considered a dpoy favorite this year. That would be 2 dpoy in the last 4 years. Really impressive also.

[JamStone]

Dirk is not even top 20 this past decade. Add to Darthkiller's list:

Chris Paul
T-Mac
Vince Carter
Dwight Howard
Chris Webber
Jermaine O'Neal
Billy Hoyle
Jenny Jones
Nate Robinson
JJ Redick

[Dex]

Not in Dallas, he won't.

[DJB]

It will take at least 2 rings for him to even sniff the top 20.

[baseline bum]

Barkley
Malone
Stockton
Kevin Johnson
Ewing

Elgin Baylor is better than all of them.

[diego]

active players with more rebounds than dirk:

shaq
kg
duncan
ben wallace
camby
marion
(kidd is only 34 boards behind him :lol)

active players with more assists than dirk:
too many to list, but dirk is between luke ridnour and jose calderon

active players with more blocks:
16 of them, dirk is between shawn marion and haywood.

active players with more points:
shaq
kobe
kg


the only things dirk is elite in are points and rebounds. but when we go all time, he drops to 60th in rebounds and 26th in points. kg, who mavs fans have been scoffing at, tops him in both categories, as well as assists, blocks, defense, titles and individual accolades.

dirk is definitely a top 10 jumpshooter of all time, maybe that's what cuban meant. otherwise he is effectively trolling

[diego]

you're right, I'm selling dirk short. He managed to drag the mavs franchise above .500, that is a gargantuan task in and of itself.

[Juanobili]

Top 10 foreign players, yeah maybe... but thats about it lol

[tdunk21]

Top 10 all time choker, yes

:lmao

[tdunk21]

dumb owner, dumb team and dumb fans......lol

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

lol butthurt spics

[diego]

it's almost as big a task as being able to drag your fatass off the couch

are you saying diego > dirk? because it doesnt take me 10+ years to get off a couch.
thanks, i think.

[z0sa]

No, I'm saying you're fat.

You do know Dallas is currently the #1 fattest city in America?

[Cry Havoc]

KG and Dirk is very debatable. KG's first 10 years was greater than Dirk's first 10. Dirk is more a catalyst for his Mavs than KG, but KG is being considered a dpoy favorite this year. That would be 2 dpoy in the last 4 years. Really impressive also.

I don't think so. KG was a monster on both sides of the ball. He dominated defensively and was pretty dominant offensively as well -- not as much as Dirk, but his defense more than makes up for it.

If I have to pick a player today in their prime to build a championship team around and character wasn't a concern, I'd take KG every time. I'd kinda hate myself for it though, because he's a massive bag of douches.

[8FOR!3]

Dirk's not top 10, probably not even top 20, but that'd have to take some thought to decide. But that doesn't take anything away from him at all, I've got a lot of respect for him as a player and competitor, but there's been some true greats throughout the history of the league.

[diego]

No, I'm saying you're fat.

ahh. Too bad you cant prove that. Whereas I can prove, that Dirk is worse than KG and most definitely not top 10 all time, and that the mavs are at best a mediocre, ringless franchise. :lol

[Juanobili]

who decides these top-10, 20 10 lists anyways?

If that makes Dirk and Cuban happy, then good for them

[Juanobili]

I guess that would be some kind of insult if the Mavs franchise was somehow a reflection on me.

You're a Mavs fan :lol

[monosylab1k]

Whereas I can prove, that Dirk is worse than KG

prove it.

[monosylab1k]

You're a Mavs fan :lol

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3127/3229444616_94aa5edca1.jpg

[diego]

funny, it says dallas mavericks under your name, it doesnt say fat beaner under mine, but I'm the one making wild conclusions. care to comment on dirk's standing or is racist lol jokes all you got?

[IronMexican]

I used to think Gold Tooth Carl was a mid troll, but with his mavfan ball washing, I now know it isn't him. Prob some spurfan who should be re-greyed.

[Deimosfobos]

It will take at least 2 rings for him to even sniff the top 20.

[Cry Havoc]

I can't help where I'm born Juan. You on the other hand can control the amount of Taco Cabana you eat but you chose not to.

:lmao

Weight smack. This is rich.

[diego]

kg:
all nba: 9 (4 1stteam)
all defense: 11
MVP: 1
DPOY: 1
all time pts: 22660
all time rebounds: 12,438
all time blocks: 1809
all time assists: 4778

dirk:
all nba: 10 (4 1st team)
all defense: 0
MVP: 1
DPOY: 0
all time pts: 21737
all time rebounds: 7994
all time blocks: 959
all time assists: 2523

summary:
all nba: +1 dirk
all defense: +11 kg
mvp: even
dpoy: +1 kg
pts: +923 kg
rebounds: +4444 kg
blocks: +850 kg
assists: +2255 kg

could've included steals but why bother. dirk has one more all nba selection. he is a better jumpshooter and a great scorer. kg shits on him in every other category. dirk is two years younger but you can't project future production because of possible injury; even if you did, he will never eclipse KG in anything but points scored

[JamStone]

Statistical totals is a skewed comparison when one player has played three more seasons and about 200 more games than the other. Plus even with the choke jobs in 2006 and 2007, Dirk has been a better player in the playoffs than KG and arguably with less talent around him.

I'm on the fence. I think an argument can be made for either player being better than the other depending on what you look for. I might lean towards KG, but it's certainly arguable either way. Plus, Dirk shits on KG over the last couple seasons.

[Muser]

Barkley
Malone
Stockton
Kevin Johnson
Ewing

I'd take Dirk over Stockton Johnson and Ewing. Would rank Malone over Dirk but idk about Barkley.

[tdunk21]

kg:
all nba: 9 (4 1stteam)
all defense: 11
MVP: 1
DPOY: 1
all time pts: 22660
all time rebounds: 12,438
all time blocks: 1809
all time assists: 4778

dirk:
all nba: 10 (4 1st team)
all defense: 0
MVP: 1
DPOY: 0
all time pts: 21737
all time rebounds: 7994
all time blocks: 959
all time assists: 2523

summary:
all nba: +1 dirk
all defense: +11 kg
mvp: even
dpoy: +1 kg
pts: +923 kg
rebounds: +4444 kg
blocks: +850 kg
assists: +2255 kg

could've included steals but why bother. dirk has one more all nba selection. he is a better jumpshooter and a great scorer. kg shits on him in every other category. dirk is two years younger but you can't project future production because of possible injury; even if you did, he will never eclipse KG in anything but points scored

mav fags being owned....

[DieHardSpursFan1537]

:lol:lmao:rollin:lmao:lol:rollin:lmao:lol:rollin:l mao:lol:rollin:lmao:lmao:lol:rollin:rollin:lmao:lm ao:lol:lol:lol:lol:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin:rol lin:rollin:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

Just make's Mark Cuban look like a bigger ass.

[diego]

Statistical totals is a skewed comparison when one player has played three more seasons and about 200 more games than the other. Plus even with the choke jobs in 2006 and 2007, Dirk has been a better player in the playoffs than KG and arguably with less talent around him.

I'm on the fence. I think an argument can be made for either player being better than the other depending on what you look for. I might lean towards KG, but it's certainly arguable either way. Plus, Dirk shits on KG over the last couple seasons.

its an all time comparison. that is their body of work up to now.
is dirk going to get 4000 rebounds, 800 blocks and 2200 assists in 200 games? he definitely isnt going to get any all defense or DPOY awards. and funny you should say its an unfair comparison to look at totals, then proceed to compare dirk age at 30-32 to kg at 32-34.

[endrity]

Statistical totals is a skewed comparison when one player has played three more seasons and about 200 more games than the other. Plus even with the choke jobs in 2006 and 2007, Dirk has been a better player in the playoffs than KG and arguably with less talent around him.

I'm on the fence. I think an argument can be made for either player being better than the other depending on what you look for. I might lean towards KG, but it's certainly arguable either way. Plus, Dirk shits on KG over the last couple seasons.

The problem I have with a lot of the statistical argument is that people find various categories and assign them the same value as scoring. As a franchise you pay premium dollar to your top guy so that first and foremost he can be an unstoppable scorer, and not play hot potato with the ball in the last five minutes.

Having said that, his 2008 ring gives KG a huge edge in this debate. Without it, it would be easier to say Dirk.

[FkLA]

lol @ MavFans laughing at the idea that KG > Dirk

did you fags even watch KG in his prime?

[JamStone]

its an all time comparison. that is their body of work up to now.
is dirk going to get 4000 rebounds, 800 blocks and 2200 assists in 200 games? he definitely isnt going to get any all defense or DPOY awards. and funny you should say its an unfair comparison to look at totals, then proceed to compare dirk age at 30-32 to kg at 32-34.

Even if you do career comparisons, when there is a big discrepancy in games played, just use averages. points per game, rebounds per game, assists per game, etc. I didn't say Dirk would catch KG in those stats. I just said it was skewed to use "totals" when there's a huge difference in games played.

And how is it funny to mention how totals are skewed and then compare the two over the last two years? It's not contradictory for me to say those two things.

[ElNono]

I'm with mono on this one. No way he's top 10. More like top 30 all time and that's a hell of an accomplishment. Cubes just taking you all for a ride.

[mindcrime]

Statistical totals is a skewed comparison when one player has played three more seasons and about 200 more games than the other. Plus even with the choke jobs in 2006 and 2007, Dirk has been a better player in the playoffs than KG and arguably with less talent around him.

I'm on the fence. I think an argument can be made for either player being better than the other depending on what you look for. I might lean towards KG, but it's certainly arguable either way. Plus, Dirk shits on KG over the last couple seasons.

You may want to revisit some of KG's playoff games. 2004, game 7 against the Kings would be a good start. If you consider Latrell "Iv'e got a family to feed" Sprewell and Sam "E.T." Cassell elite talent then more power to you.

[diego]

the only way you can argue dirk > kg is if you base your argument around scoring/efficiency >>>> rebounding and defense. For a guard, even though I dont agree, that might be reasonable. for a big man? no question that both factor prominently. if the difference between dirk's rebounding and defense was 10-20% KG's, maybe it's close. but the difference is closer to 50% than it is 20%. No contest IMO.

and yes, I believe it is absurd to consider the past couple seasons in an all time ranking. You have to look at all of their seasons. even if you subtract 200 games from KG's career, either at the start or the end, he will still have a considerable advantage in boards, blocks, assists and steals.

[Trill Clinton]

Cuban gettin' his troll on

[TDfan2007]

Statistical totals is a skewed comparison when one player has played three more seasons and about 200 more games than the other. Plus even with the choke jobs in 2006 and 2007, Dirk has been a better player in the playoffs than KG and arguably with less talent around him.

I'm on the fence. I think an argument can be made for either player being better than the other depending on what you look for. I might lean towards KG, but it's certainly arguable either way. Plus, Dirk shits on KG over the last couple seasons.

:tu

prime KG > prime Dirk, but not by much. However, KG's prime was very short-lived and not very effective. Dirk has a way better offensive game, but KG is much better on D. It's a tough call, but I'd lean more towards KG too since he's the more complete player. I won't argue with someone who picks Dirk though.

But to respond to the Mark Cuban: :lmao

[TDfan2007]

lol butthurt spics

lol calling the fan of the better player/better team butthurt. Nobody is butthurt about Cuban's comments. We all just think it's fucking hilarious. Most Spurs fans are secure enough with Timmy's place in history to not care what some owner says about his player, but it won't stop us from laughing and having fun.

Mav fans on this board are so sad. You guys are almost as entertaining as your owner.

[TDfan2007]

You may want to revisit some of KG's playoff games. 2004, game 7 against the Kings would be a good start. If you consider Latrell "Iv'e got a family to feed" Sprewell and Sam "E.T." Cassell elite talent then more power to you.

In 2004, those two guys were fantastic and Minnesota was set to win a championship. Unfortunately they just ran into the Lakers 5 seconds before the Shaq/Kobe combo imploded.

Both players have failed over and over in the playoffs, and both have put up great numbers in the playoffs. KG was obviously not good enough to be the #1 option on a championship team, but he was an incredible 2nd/3rd option for Boston. Dirk doesn't need to play alongside a number one option to win a championship, he needs a big who can play D and rebound, among other things. He has that now so we'll see what happens.

[Zelophehad]

I think Dirk is better than guys like Ewing and KG, but its not so clear I would talk shit about it. Those two have such a massive edge defensively, its hard to gauge how much Dirk's better offensive game makes up for that gap.

[Jacob1983]

Gasol had to go to a different team just to win a playoff game. Doesn't that say something about him? Dirk is at least in the top 50 of all time.

[red strike 07]

Dirk is top 20 all time....

[TE]

Dirk ain't in the top 10.


Shit, Tim barely scratches the top 10 in my book (number 7), how the fuck can a ringless and chokesome player like Nowitski be in that retards top 10 list.


Lol anything related to maverick success = delusional.

[Darrin]

He's a top-ten talent but this is a league that's been around for over 60 years. The NBA can't afford to put him that high. He's good, and could go up against any of the all-time greats--this isn't about what he lacks--but I don't think the numbers fit.

[Texas Chili Dog]

Dirk is less than 40 points from passing Bird on the scoring list.

Just FYI...not comparing the two or anything. :lol

[Phillip]

Even with a ring Dirk wouldn't be top 10. He's a hell of a player, no doubt about it. But he's not very good on defense. It just dooms him because when you get into the top 10 all-time you're talking about guys that positively impact the game every second they're on the floor.

Dirk might be top 20 All-time when he hangs them up.

lol larry bird

lol magic johnson

lol shit ass defenders

[Phillip]

Plus even with the choke jobs in 2006 and 2007

having no true #2 option and all the role players missing wide open looks that you set them up with, resulting in being doubled and tripled every time you touch the ball = choke job

got it :tu

[Cry Havoc]

lol larry bird

lol magic johnson

lol shit ass defenders

lol Dirk being a 7 foot SG.

lol Magic + Bird having 8 more rings than Dirk

lol career 2.7 assists despite getting the ball most of the game

lol 1 block per game

lol Bird having more rebounds, assists, and steals than Dirk

[Texas Chili Dog]

lol Bird having more rebounds, assists, and steals than Dirk

and points*



* for 3-4 more days

[Greg Oden]

lol career 2.7 assists despite getting the ball most of the game


so you're saying a guy who's been far and away the best and most capable scorer on his team by a huge margin should be passing the ball instead of scoring himself. Nice logic, dumbshit.

[Hoops Czar]

top 10 Mav of all time.

[Greg Oden]

holy shit, a cav fan of all people making that joke.

the mavs all time best starting 5 would kick the shit out of the cavs best 5.

[Hoops Czar]

Greg Oden, top five biggest busts ever to set foot in the nba. Lets see... better future Cleveland or Portland... easy answer really... Cleveland.

I like the Mr. Exclusive pic of Oden. Hang on to it cause it will be a real collectors item. You can tell all your grand kids how you were one of the very few to actually see him play an nba minute.

[Greg Oden]

yeah but that's all negated by the fact that it's Cleveland. maybe the most miserable city in the country.

[Hoops Czar]

misery loves company...

[Cry Havoc]

so you're saying a guy who's been far and away the best and most capable scorer on his team by a huge margin should be passing the ball instead of scoring himself. Nice logic, dumbshit.

Kobe is considered a shot hog and has managed almost 5 assists per game his entire career.

The assists are a reflection of his game. Dirk is not a great passer. The poster I was responding to had listed Magic and Bird as being poor on defense, but both of those guys made their team offenses noticeably better. If Dirk isn't scoring, he isn't helping his team, because other than being a phenomenal shooter/scorer (Bird was as well, mind you), Dirk doesn't do a lot on the offensive side of things.

[FkLA]

KG is arguably the most versatile defender in nba history. He had small market Minny winning 45-55 games year in and year out...the most talented players he had alongside him were Spreewell and Casell, and he managed the #1 seed and WCF trip with them. Couldve gone farther if not for Casell's injury in the WCF, he was running the point that series against the Lakers. A typical season for KG in Minny was...25 ppg, 13 rpg, 5 apg, 2 spg. 1st team all-nba and all-defense year in and year out.

Just those things alone trump what Dirk has done. Add the ring he got with Boston where he served as the defensive anchor and it really isnt even that close. Yet you Mav fags laught at the idea that KG > Dirk...lol.

[Greg Oden]

KG is arguably the most versatile defender in nba history. He had small market Minny winning 45-55 games year in and year out...the most talented players he had alongside him were Spreewell and Casell, and he managed the #1 seed and WCF trip with them. Couldve gone farther if not for Casell's injury in the WCF, he was running the point that series against the Lakers. A typical season for KG in Minny was...25 ppg, 13 rpg, 5 apg, 2 spg. 1st team all-nba and all-defense year in and year out.

Just those things alone trump what Dirk has done. Add the ring he got with Boston where he served as the defensive anchor and it really isnt even that close. Yet you Mav fags laught at the idea that KG > Dirk...lol.

you are just a nasty fungal wart on the nba forum's ass, tbh. us regulators should get some cream to clear your sorry ass up.

[FkLA]

you are just a nasty fungal wart on the nba forum's ass, tbh. us regulators should get some cream to clear your sorry ass up.

the truth hurts tbh, doesnt it ?

[Greg Oden]

the truth hurts tbh, doesnt it ?

naw tbh, your posts belong in the proverbial toilet. every time i read one of your mediocre posts, i want to re injury my knee so the injury so the pain of the knee will overtake the pain of reading your shit posts.

[FkLA]

stop :(

[Greg Oden]

if there is a god, you are talking to yourself.

[FkLA]

youre regulating me to the ground tbh :cry

too bad the fact that kg > dirk remains, and theres nothing uve provided that proves otherwise.

[Greg Oden]

youre regulating me to the ground tbh :cry

too bad the fact that kg > dirk remains, and theres nothing uve provided that proves otherwise.

provide these facts, chunky.

lol copy and paste from wikipedia

[Greg Oden]

Yo Greg, I'd even take it a step further and say that his posts tend to lie on the wrong side of "par" or the median..it's posters like these that make certain internet posters want to kill themselves after reading said posts, tbh.

agree tyson, and if you'd take a second or two from plowing desert bro's wife, you would also know that this homo often gets caught putting from the rough, which is never an intelligent idea.

[FkLA]

that little paragraph is enough tbh

stop regulating me tho, really stop it :cry

[rEgUlaToR!!!!!]

so much regulation in this thread...

[TE]

you are just a nasty fungal wart on the nba forum's ass, tbh. us regulators should get some cream to clear your sorry ass up.

That's harsh. :lol

[diego]

Even if you do career comparisons, when there is a big discrepancy in games played, just use averages. points per game, rebounds per game, assists per game, etc. I didn't say Dirk would catch KG in those stats. I just said it was skewed to use "totals" when there's a huge difference in games played.

And how is it funny to mention how totals are skewed and then compare the two over the last two years? It's not contradictory for me to say those two things.

ok, so I decided to take out KG's first season (he was 19, dirk entered the league at 20) and his last two (so the last season counted for KG is at age 32, dirk's current age). The result is a comparison age 20-32.

games played: +30 kg
minutes played: +2701 kg
pts scored: +1295 dirk
rebounds: +3187 kg
blocks: +579 kg
stl: +526 kg
assists: +1866 kg

this difference in games is small and it is fair for KG to have this advantage, both in games and minutes because it shows from age 20 - 32 he played more, either by being healthier, a better matchup, the best at his position for his team, etc.

dirk's scoring advantage becomes noticeable with this comparison. But look at the other advantages- they are practically the same.


dirk's scoring advantage: 6.5% of KG's total
kg rebounding advantage: 40% of dirk's total
kg block advantage: 60% of dirk's total
kg stl advantage: 60% of dirk's total
kg assist advantage: 74% of dirk's total

is that 6.5% extra production in scoring from dirk outweigh an average 59% extra production in reb, blk, stl, and assists from kg?

I think some people are letting their dislike for KG as a person cloud their judgement of him as a player. yes, dirk is the better scorer. but KG is far superior in every other measurable facet of the game. I can understand if you like dirk more, be it for BB IQ, leadership, classiness :lol, whatever. But KG has produced more, won more individual accolades and more team accolades. there is no objective measure that doesnt favor KG.

[TE]

ok, so I decided to take out KG's first season (he was 19, dirk entered the league at 20) and his last two (so the last season counted for KG is at age 32, dirk's current age). The result is a comparison age 20-32.

games played: +30 kg
minutes played: +2701 kg
pts scored: +1295 dirk
rebounds: +3187 kg
blocks: +579 kg
stl: +526 kg
assists: +1866 kg

this difference in games is small and it is fair for KG to have this advantage, both in games and minutes because it shows from age 20 - 32 he played more, either by being healthier, a better matchup, the best at his position for his team, etc.

dirk's scoring advantage becomes noticeable with this comparison. But look at the other advantages- they are practically the same.


dirk's scoring advantage: 6.5% of KG's total
kg rebounding advantage: 40% of dirk's total
kg block advantage: 60% of dirk's total
kg stl advantage: 60% of dirk's total
kg assist advantage: 74% of dirk's total

is that 6.5% extra production in scoring from dirk outweigh an average 59% extra production in reb, blk, stl, and assists from kg?

I think some people are letting their dislike for KG as a person cloud their judgement of him as a player. yes, dirk is the better scorer. but KG is far superior in every other measurable facet of the game. I can understand if you like dirk more, be it for BB IQ, leadership, classiness :lol, whatever. But KG has produced more, won more individual accolades and more team accolades. there is no objective measure that doesnt favor KG.


Kevin Garnett is the better individual player. Look at what he did in Minnesota, singlehandedly taking a shit team to the West Finals, and periodical appearances in the playoffs akin to the Mavericks.

People dismiss KG's superiority over Dirk because he now plays on a team with a shitload of talent.


Case, closed.

[MavFan6488]

dirk is 32 years old..if he doesn't get injured, he will play in the nba until he's 38, 39. he will move way up in the all-time scoring list. i can see him finish top 10 in the scoring list all-time, at least. if he can't win a ring with the mavs the next 4 years, he might go to a different team. if he joins the spurs or lakers late in his career and wins a ring with either one of those teams i bet many people who called him 'noringski' or 'choker' in this thread will suddenly become dirk dicksuckers and wouldn't argue if someone brings up this argument again...

let him finish his career before you stomp on him...

[MavFan6488]

Duncan > Garnett > Dirk in the last 15 years or so. Nothing against Dirk but Gasol is chasing him rather than Dirk passing either Garnett or Duncan on all time great.
:lmao faggot gasol is chasing dirk's ass but that's about it.

gasol is just a kobe side-kick. he will never be one of the all-time greats.

[diego]

let him finish his career before you stomp on him...

let him finish his career before deciding how many more pts he'll score and rings he'll win. as of now, he is not top 10 scoring, has no rings, and has had an inferior career to KG, whether you measure it by stats, individual awards or team awards. nobody is stomping him, he's still a great player :toast

[poop]

ahhahahahhahahahahahahahahhaahahaa



































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DIRT AS TOP 10 all time ahhahhhahahahaahahahhahahahaa






















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.ha

[MavFan6488]

he will go down as the best european player and the best shooting 7 footer of all time that's for sure.
there's never been a player like him with the type of offensive skill set that he has. he's unique.

jordan and kobe are better players career-wise, but they're very similar too.

[MavFan6488]

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:O4FinmPRNB0P0M:http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/9585/bodybuilder.jpg&t=1

damn your wife is one ugly bitch.

[poop]

Dirt will go down as the best 7-foot shooter of all time.













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.














congradulations.

[poop]

damn your wife is one ugly bitch.

you wish you were married to such a hot little dish.

[MavFan6488]

Dirt will go down as the best 7-foot shooter of all time.













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congradulations.
You will go down as the best cocksucker of all time.













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congradulations.

[Rummpd]

Duncan you have a point because of his dominance and rings. But KG??? lol



Garnett is a much better defender than Dirk, better rebounder and more assists in the prime of his career. Garnett has a title and set records for 20/10/5 seasons early in his career with 6 straight years in that rare category.

Neither is accomplished as Duncan but I would definetely take Garnett in his prime on my team over Dirk when seeking a championship with the right parts around both.

[poop]

You will go down as the best cocksucker of all time.







congrats Bro







.




















.














congradulations.

[Rummpd]

Look it up Garnett's FG % Career is .498 and Dirk's is surprisingly low at 0.475

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/dirk_nowitzki/career_stats.html
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kevin_garnett/index.html

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/tim_duncan/index.html


Dirk is a great shooter but the problem is his softness he prefers to sit on the perimeter and not go inside like a big should. This year Dirk is unreal as a shooter and scorer, but over his career only averaging 8 rebounds a game and only 1 block per game at his size shows he is basically soft and prefers to sit outside.

Meanwhile Duncan shoots over 50% (0.508) for his career, grabs 11.5 boards and blocks 2.3 three shots a game. With 4 championships, 3 finals MVPs and 2 regular season MVPs he is the only one of the three that is a definitie lock to be top ten player (or at least on the border as there are a lot of debates about 5-12 all time).

Nothing against Dirk - but give me a REAL big man any day who can go inside and outside and help his team win.

[Rummpd]

Also not sure about that Euro thing - right now Dirk leads the pack for sure but what if Gasol finishes with say 4 championships and leads the Lakers to a title in the waning years of Bryant's career.

Based on the last two-three years I would also take Gasol paired with a great perimeter player than Dirk.

He is not the scorer Dirk is but still shoots about the same 0.474 pulls down close to 9 boards a game and blocks 1.7 shots per game and is a heady smart player that has been the additive main difference maker on two championships.

The gap between him and Dirk is not that much when careers will be looked back at and in the end we all may agree that Dirk is a dangerous great shooter but leaves a lot on the table to this point as far as leading or even co-leading a team to a championship and Dirk has played with some very strong teams and simply not got it done to this point. He needs a couple of championships to even be considered top 12-15 at this point.

[MavFan6488]

comparing kg's game with dirk's game is like comparing apples with oranges. it makes no sense so why are trying so hard?

[MavFan6488]

and gasol won 2 rings because of kobe. not the other way around.

[MavFan6488]

Meanwhile Duncan shoots over 50% (0.508) for his career...
dirk is not a real PF. he plays this position because of his size but if you have to compare his career FG% to other players take kobes because dirks game has more in common with kobes than it has with duncans.

[Texas_Ranger]

What about David Robinson??

Was he better than Dirk??

[MavFan6488]

seriously, i'm sooo fed up with all the gasol hype.

measuring gasols 'greatness'..look what he has accomplished with memphis in '06. he lead them to the playoffs, props, but t-mac also led a team to the playoffs, so that is not a great accomplishment. gasol never won a f'ckin game in the playoffs as the unquestioned leader of team. now he has one of the greatest players ever on his team and being coached by arguably the best coach ever, and now he's one of the all time great all of a sudden?...he was a laughing stock in memphis and would still be of someone from the grizz front office had a milligram of brain his head.

[Rummpd]

My bottom line is that Dirk right now is not a top ten player and not close - he is a soft big man with poor leadership skills. All he can do is shoot well (but even the stats show taht is over-rated for his career) but does not bring enough to the table on both sides of the ball to even laughably be in consideration despite the Mavs oddball owners biased eyes.

Why have all the buzz about a 7 footer if he cannot rebound and block shots?

[diego]

What about David Robinson??

Was he better than Dirk??

IMO yes, but injury cut him short, if dirk continues playing at a high level he may well surpass him... still, if i had to choose a 25 yr old Drob or a 25 year old Dirk to start a team I'd choose Drob, for the same reasons I'd choose Garnett over dirk: the marginal difference in scoring doesnt justify the massive difference in every other category.

[Rummpd]

Dirk even in consideration as a greater player than David Robinson? B.S. wake me when Dirk has a quadruple double or wins two titles or scores 71 in a game. Dirk is a scorer period and those are a dime a dozen over the years of the NBA.

[HarlemHeat37]

How do the stats show that his shot isn't as good as hyped?..I don't like using TS% because it is dependent on the style of play and officials in every single game, but Dirk's career eFG%, which is what should be used, since it factors in 3s, shows that he's one of the more efficient high usage players of the decade..

With that being said, I would still take KG over Dirk from a peak and career perspective..

[SpursDynasty85]

Garnett is a much better defender than Dirk, better rebounder and more assists in the prime of his career. Garnett has a title and set records for 20/10/5 seasons early in his career with 6 straight years in that rare category.

Neither is accomplished as Duncan but I would definetely take Garnett in his prime on my team over Dirk when seeking a championship with the right parts around both.


This



IMO yes, but injury cut him short, if dirk continues playing at a high level he may well surpass him... still, if i had to choose a 25 yr old Drob or a 25 year old Dirk to start a team I'd choose Drob, for the same reasons I'd choose Garnett over dirk: the marginal difference in scoring doesnt justify the massive difference in every other category.


and this.


The first one brings up a very good point about building the right pieces around a player. Duncan/Garnett/Shaq even Robinson during his prime carried teams on their backs. Duncan of course had parker/ginobili as stars in 05, but he did carry an 03 team with no allstars. The aforementioned type guys are the first pick on almost anyone picking teams at a rec. These guys are the foundation and you just try to fill out the rest of the team around them.

Kobe on the other hand, you like his skills, but with out a big man in the middle, championships are going to be really hard to get.

For Kobe, a 1st round win was his unachievable stat.

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

lol

So much butthurt from Spurs fans in this thread. What a classic

[Agloco]

lol

So much butthurt from Spurs fans in this thread. What a classic

lol so many delusional Mavfans swinging on Cubans nuts.

lol Top 10 all time

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

lol so many delusional Mavfans swinging on Cubans nuts.

lol Top 10 all time

butthurt :lol

[Grey Spurfan]

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao





Dirk NoDickzki will go down as a top 10 CHOKER off all time :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao





amirite

[Grey Spurfan]

Dirt will go down as the best 7-foot shooter of all time.













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congradulations.












:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao :lmao:lmao CLASSIC!!!







btw that name is fucking hilarious bro...POOP! I get it, you're named after poop! :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[Harry Callahan]

Cubes is always going to see things through his rose colored glasses when it comes to his players.

I live in the Metroplex, and there is no doubt DN is an awesome talent and a great player - the Mavies would be a .500 club at best without him IMO. He is one of the top ten current NBA players - BUT.......

There is no way on god's green earth he could displace a top ten or even top 20 player All Time player without more playoff success than he's had to this point. Sorry. A first round exit three out of the last four years is not what a top ten all-time player does. He is also a below average defender.

I don't think you could even put him ahead of guys like Karl Malone, John Stockton, Julius Erving, Moses Malone and a bunch of other guys of that ilk. Those guys keyed multiple championship appearances and even an NBA title (1983 for Erving and Malone).

He's a terrific player, but Cuban can't help himself when he talks about his guys. He overvalues and overpays his own guys too often (in part because he can). I will say Dirk is a top dollar talent because he does perform at a very high level (in the regular season especially).

Funny story for you guys since we're talking about Mark Cuban -

I work in North Dallas, and I went into the office on a Sunday a few weeks ago to drop off some stuff. I was dressed casually and wearing a slick new Spurs cap. I have known for years that Mark Cuban works out at fitness club attached to the parking garage by my office.

I'm about to ride the elevator down...... the doors open....... and there is Mark Cuban looking down at me (he's pretty tall). He was leaving the health club with one of his kids. I'm sure he noticed my Spurs cap and that my eyes got as big a saucers. He knew I knew who he was.

I was a little flustered - You don't see billionaires out in public like that very often. I didn't say anything to him as I entered the elevator -just nodded to him. As the doors opened on the first floor, I just motioned for him and his kiddo to go ahead. He thanked me and I said "You're welcome". I wish I could have come up with something clever to say, but I could not bring myself to saying anything when he has his kid with him. I'm sure he gets plenty of good (and not so good) natured ribbing all the time.

BTW, MC drives a somewhat common Lexus Coupe with "MFFL" plates ("Mavs Fan For Life" if you don't know). I was leaving my office for the drive home a couple of months ago and saw him then too.

I was somewhat favorably impressed that he does not have a legion of bodyguards surrounding him as he goes about his business. I think I would be a little paranoid if I were in his situation. On the other hand, he was not always wealthy and had to hustle and live somewhat modestly in his pre-Broadcast.com days. IOW he was a regular working Joe in his younger days.

[SpursDynasty85]

Cubes is always going to see things through his rose colored glasses when it comes to his players.

I live in the Metroplex, and there is no doubt DN is an awesome talent and a great player - the Mavies would be a .500 club at best without him IMO. He is one of the top ten current NBA players - BUT.......

There is no way on god's green earth he could displace a top ten or even top 20 player All Time player without more playoff success than he's had to this point. Sorry. A first round exit three out of the last four years is not what a top ten all-time player does. He is also a below average defender.

I don't think you could even put him ahead of guys like Karl Malone, John Stockton, Julius Erving, Moses Malone and a bunch of other guys of that ilk. Those guys keyed multiple championship appearances and even an NBA title (1983 for Erving and Malone).

He's a terrific player, but Cuban can't help himself when he talks about his guys. He overvalues and overpays his own guys too often (in part because he can). I will say Dirk is a top dollar talent because he does perform at a very high level (in the regular season especially).




True. Dirk is top 10 today. But he doesnt' have that IT factor. He has had a lot of talent around him. He's never had that "killer" around him to relieve pressure, but to me, that shows that Dirk never had it, so he needs someone else to bring it. If you look at the talent he's had, Jhoward,Devin harris, Stackhouse, Jason Terry, Caron Butler, Shawn Marion. These guys have been the top 1-2-3 options on teams. He's had the help, but the mavs are always missing the "x" factor.

Dirk performs well in the season and in the post season. He's clutch on the offensive end with out question. But when the team needs a steal, a hustle player, a defensive stop dirk is never there.

[rEgUlaToR!!!!!]

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao





Dirk NoDickzki will go down as a top 10 CHOKER off all time :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao





amirite

[rEgUlaToR!!!!!]

somebody just got regulated. try not 2 get 2 butthurt over it spurs fan,

[Greg Oden]

He has had a lot of talent around him.

:lmao

[Greg Oden]

also lol at anyone using the Dirk is soft argument when the person he's being compared to is KG. That scared sack of shit shoots just as many if not more turnaround jumpers than Dirk, and he's not nearly as clutch as Dirk.

[TheSullyMonster]

If I have to pick a player today in their prime to build a championship team around and character wasn't a concern, I'd take KG every time. I'd kinda hate myself for it though, because he's a massive bag of douches.

Really? Over Shaq? Duncan?

I'd think you'd at least take a player who won a ring as thhe #1 option.:lol

[SpursDynasty85]

:lmao

Your delusional if you think Dirk hasn't had talent around him. Mark Cuban is the owner. nuff said.

[Cry Havoc]

Really? Over Shaq? Duncan?

I'd think you'd at least take a player who won a ring as thhe #1 option.:lol

Uh, between KG and Dirk. If I had to start a team today with ANY player at the start of their career, it would be LeBron or Duncan.


:lmao

I find it amusing that people have been ripping LeBron for not winning a title with the as-built Cavs, citing that they won 60+ games in the regular season as a measure of how good the Cavs were.

Dirk's team won 67 games, but they weren't talented?

[Greg Oden]

Dirk's team won 67 games, but they weren't talented?

So your saying the 07 mavs were really 67 wins good? With Josh Howard as a #2? Yeah right.

[alchemist]

Top 25 no doubt. Top 10? Nah

[Cry Havoc]

So your saying the 07 mavs were really 67 wins good? With Josh Howard as a #2? Yeah right.

Did they win 67 games or not?

[Greg Oden]

Where do the Mavs rank in terms of talent of teams that have won 65+ games? With Dirk's backup that consisted of a swingman who disappeared after half and an undersized chucker, the Mavs are on top no doubt.

although I will give you credit for always appearing slightly more intelligent than you actually are.

[BUMP]

Uh, between KG and Dirk. If I had to start a team today with ANY player at the start of their career, it would be LeBron or Duncan.



I find it amusing that people have been ripping LeBron for not winning a title with the as-built Cavs, citing that they won 60+ games in the regular season as a measure of how good the Cavs were.

Dirk's team won 67 games, but they weren't talented?

The Mavs team winning 67 games in 06 was a huge testament to how bad the league was back then. THIS Mavs team currently is more talented then that one.

[Cry Havoc]

Where do the Cavs rank in terms of talent of teams that have won 65+ games? With LeBron's backup that consisted of a swingman who disappeared after half and an unorthodox forward past his prime, the Cavs are on top no doubt.

although I will give you credit for always appearing slightly more intelligent than you actually are.

:lol

Do you see the similarity here?

[Phillip]

Dirk performs well in the season and in the post season. He's clutch on the offensive end with out question. But when the team needs a steal, a hustle player, a defensive stop dirk is never there.

So exactly how many times has Dirk given up game winners and big shots? Watch the Mavs more often, and you will rarely if ever see Dirk being the reason that another team hit a game winner or a big shot. His IQ of positioning on the defensive end is actually quite high, and in crunch time situations, he pretty much is never the one out of position defensively, and if they try to attack him, he's not the one that gives up the buckets in those situations, and usually does a damn good job defending his man.