Good game

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

Spurs played tough and looked good.

You know i don't troll, so i am not trying to start anything, but i gotta ask your opinion on that last call?

If the Spurs have the ball and that call is in SA, does it go against the Spurs?

Spurs did well to be in that position on a b2b.

Enjoy the win :toast I will go drown my sorrows and wait for the Melo trade to be announced :bang

[honestfool84]

I will go drown my sorrows and wait for the Melo trade to be announced

:lol

thank you, kind sir. i can always appreciate a fan like yourself.

stay classy, my friend.

[Quiet Strength]

I think it would go against the spurs.. It was an obvious charge.

[cd98]

I thought it was a picture perfect charge. No one has argued that it wasn't. The only argument was whether it should be called or not. I guess that depends on what rules you think should be applied on the last possession of a close game.

Of course, if knocking over everything in your path on the last play of the game was absolutely permissible, Shaq would have been unstoppable in the day.

[Rob123]

as a fan of basketball, I hope that foul gets called in Sa if the spurs have the ball.

That was a blatant charge, and swallowing your whistles and allowing a team to win like that just because it's the last play of the game would have been a disgrace. However, the fact that I even have to defend that shows that in all reality that call is not made 95% of the time.

It's a testament to the refs last night, that was a great, and incredibly ballsy call.

[twincam]

I will agree with the rest.
It was a text book charge call.
If you look at the replay...you'll see that two referrees in plain view made the same call at the same time. Legitimate call.

[jestersmash]

If you don't call that charge, it would set a dangerous precedent for end of game situations in the future.

If no charge call is made, what stops players from deliberately charging into people, knocking them to the floor, and scoring an easy dunk/lay in over the top if they feel that refs will inexorably swallow their whistles in that type of situation?

What you saw wasn't a 50/50 call that could have gone either way despite what George Karl was saying. That's patently absurd. In game time, in slow motion, it was a picture perfect charge.

The way to counter Ginobili's position would have been to stop on a dime, rise up, and shoot a quick 5-10 foot jumper.

Ginobili countered Melo's drive, and Melo didn't have the presence of mind to counter Ginobili's position. Simple as that.

[suitedkings]

i hate hypotheticals cause you never know what would happen in a different enviroment with different players.

in this case i strongly believe the right call was made.

[cd98]

I do love how ESPN cited Scott Hastings, the television guy for the Nuggets, as saying that the call should never have been made. That's like asking Sean Elliott if he thought it was a charge. Wonder what Elliott would say...

[fyatuk]

That call HAD to be made, and it HAS to be made on any circumstances. Manu was set (which isn't even necessary), perfectly squared, not in the circle, and gave Melo plenty of space to adjust.

However, I've seen that not called on the Spurs before, and my reaction was "That's a charge..."

[jmanu20]

Two correct end of game calls on consecutive nights in the NBA. Who would have thought?

Let's say that was Boston vs. Miami instead of New York, and Lebron hoists a three just a little too late like Amare. Let's also pretend that the Spurs were playing the Lakers (with Joey C as the ref), and that was Kobe with the last shot, and Manu gets the exact same positioning on the charge.

Something tells me that it would have been L #5 for Boston and L #4 for the Spurs!

[8FOR!3]

Here's the thing with NBA referees. That call was the right one and should be called. Sometimes the refs will make the wrong decision and no call something like that because it would be "determining the outcome of the game." My feeling is though, that on a play like that where there was clear contact you've got to do one of two things. Defensive foul and an and one opportunity, or you call the charge. His feet were set, he was outside the circle, and I honestly think you've got to call that a charge on anybody anywhere you go.

The true question is do you think the refs should decide the outcome of the game? When in fact, they were put in a position to decide the outcome of the game regardless. If you no call that charge, then you're still deciding the outcome of the game. Just because it's in the last seconds doesn't mean you shouldn't call fouls when they're there, it happens all of the time, but it shouldn't.

[boutons_deux]

As we hear nearly every game, charging/blocking PFs are often very close and so very hard to call.

However, there was nothing "close" about Manu's set, motionless, out-of-circle position and non-flop, nor anything close about Marshmelo's bulldozing charging PF.

[TJastal]

Here's the thing with NBA referees. That call was the right one and should be called. Sometimes the refs will make the wrong decision and no call something like that because it would be "determining the outcome of the game." My feeling is though, that on a play like that where there was clear contact you've got to do one of two things. Defensive foul and an and one opportunity, or you call the charge. His feet were set, he was outside the circle, and I honestly think you've got to call that a charge on anybody anywhere you go.

The true question is do you think the refs should decide the outcome of the game? When in fact, they were put in a position to decide the outcome of the game regardless. If you no call that charge, then you're still deciding the outcome of the game. Just because it's in the last seconds doesn't mean you shouldn't call fouls when they're there, it happens all of the time, but it shouldn't.

Excellent point many overlooked.

[Cry Havoc]

Here's the thing with NBA referees. That call was the right one and should be called. Sometimes the refs will make the wrong decision and no call something like that because it would be "determining the outcome of the game." My feeling is though, that on a play like that where there was clear contact you've got to do one of two things. Defensive foul and an and one opportunity, or you call the charge. His feet were set, he was outside the circle, and I honestly think you've got to call that a charge on anybody anywhere you go.

The true question is do you think the refs should decide the outcome of the game? When in fact, they were put in a position to decide the outcome of the game regardless. If you no call that charge, then you're still deciding the outcome of the game. Just because it's in the last seconds doesn't mean you shouldn't call fouls when they're there, it happens all of the time, but it shouldn't.

:tu

I would definitely want that call to be made against the Spurs. I'd rather lose fairly than getting off on a bad decision by the official.

[UnWantedTheory]

As we hear nearly every game, charging/blocking PFs are often very close and so very hard to call.

However, there was nothing "close" about Manu's set, motionless, out-of-circle position and non-flop, nor anything close about Marshmelo's bulldozing charging PF.

[GSH]

I would be pissed, just like every fan in Denver, if they called the same play against the Spurs. Mostly because I think that the refs always swallow their whistles on those last-second plays. But I can honestly say that if I hit the rewind button and watched it again, I would say it was a charge. I might still be tweaked that they chose that particular moment to make that call, but I couldn't deny that it was a charge. I don't have any problem saying that the refs blew one in the Spurs favor, but that wasn't it.

I will say that I don't think Manu was fouled on the inbounds play. I definitely don't think a whistle should have been blown. The Spurs got sloppy and paid the price. I'm sure I'll get flame-roasted for saying so.

[Chomag]

Nah, I think you were pretty spot on GSH. Last few seconds of the game it's usually a no call in that situation. Funny that they blew the whistle there but they did. Usually they don't want a whistle to decide the outcome of the game in the final seconds.

Will take the win of course but Spurs almost lost this one.

[lefty]

Spurs played tough and looked good.

You know i don't troll, so i am not trying to start anything, but i gotta ask your opinion on that last call?

If the Spurs have the ball and that call is in SA, does it go against the Spurs?

Spurs did well to be in that position on a b2b.

Enjoy the win :toast I will go drown my sorrows and wait for the Melo trade to be announced :bang

Thanks

It was nice shitting on your team

Now go make me a sandwich

[Dex]

That was a textbook charge, so I think it would've been made in any arena. In fact, it was so textbook that the refs had no choice but to call it. If they could've let it slide, they probably would've.

That being said, Manu got there just about as late you as you can get set, and still have it called a charge. I thought originally that he jumped under Anthony, but the replay shows he got set before Anthony leaped.

It was just surprising because in a game where both the momentum and the calls were going Denver's way, it was a greatly unexpected twist to an otherwise great game winning drive.

Good to see you around, NuGGeTs-FaN

[cd98]

I would also add that if Hill can get called for an offensive foul like he did in the last minute of the game then so can Carmelo.

[xellos88330]

I think the call would have went against SA here. It was too easy of a call to make. As far as swallowing the whistle, they swallowed it on Harrington as he was pulling the arm of McDyess preventing him to bring the help defense.

I am thinking the referees let that one slide, but when the second foul hit, they had no choice but to call it. One missed call can be attributed to a mistake, two missed calls on the same play can create some serious problems for the officials.

[lmbebo]

i hate it when the refs don't make the correct call. Anyone remember D.Fisher jumping of Barry's back in 2008? Refs swallowed the whistle.

THe McDyess and Harrington foul should have been a no call, a double foul or a jump ball maybe? Both players were hooked into each other.

They called a very inconsistent game though last time it felt like. Nene's 6th foul was bogous.

[ohmwrecker]

They made the right call on the last play. I'm a little surprised because the officiating for both sides was pretty terrible all night, but Manu drew a perfect charge. There is no doubt about that.

[spurs10]

Good call on the charge. I know the inevitable Melo trade is not something Nugget fans are happy about, but he's not really a person of great character seemingly. You very well might be better off.

[boutons_deux]

"Usually they don't want a whistle to decide the outcome of the game in the final seconds."

Game7, WCF, Mavs@Spurs

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

Good call on the charge. I know the inevitable Melo trade is not something Nugget fans are happy about, but he's not really a person of great character seemingly. You very well might be better off.

yeh it was a good call. Just one that you don't expect to be made at home with a game on the line. Unfortunately it is indicative of fans belief that the refs are bias and favour home teams.

It seems strange these days when a ref gets the call right in a close game :lol

As for the Melo trade, ill be glad when he is gone. Helluva player but he is a fame whore just like Lebron. I'd rather watch guys like AA, as opposed to Melo/LBJ etc

Woody Paige mentioned that there was rumour that the Nets would be willing to part with all 5 1st rd picks if it gets them Melo :greedy

Id rather D Favors and a couple of picks. I think Favors/Nene will be a nice frontcourt

[TE]

Stay classy Nuggets fan, out of a lot of other non-spur fan posters, you are one of the classiest in my book.

[gospursgojas]

Here's the thing with NBA referees. That call was the right one and should be called. Sometimes the refs will make the wrong decision and no call something like that because it would be "determining the outcome of the game." My feeling is though, that on a play like that where there was clear contact you've got to do one of two things. Defensive foul and an and one opportunity, or you call the charge. His feet were set, he was outside the circle, and I honestly think you've got to call that a charge on anybody anywhere you go.

The true question is do you think the refs should decide the outcome of the game? When in fact, they were put in a position to decide the outcome of the game regardless. If you no call that charge, then you're still deciding the outcome of the game. Just because it's in the last seconds doesn't mean you shouldn't call fouls when they're there, it happens all of the time, but it shouldn't.

The refs did not determine the game.

The refs did not charge, Melo did.

[Man In Black]

Rodney and Haywood were 2 of the 3 Refs who called it a charge. The Senior Official, Tricky Dick Bavetta...did not.

[duncan228]

Grind-it-out wins thrill Spurs (http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2010/12/17/grind-it-out-wins-thrill-spurs/)
Mike Monroe

Spurs captain Tim Duncan has seen a lot in his 13-plus seasons as a perennial All-Star and two-time NBA Most Valuable Player

This season’s version of the Spurs is beginning to find a special place in his heart because of its penchant for perseverance.

“That’s what I love about this team,” Duncan said. “I think we learned a lot from the ups and downs of last year. We’re playing a lot more of those 48 minutes than we were last year.”

Four times this season, the Spurs have come back from double-digit deficits in the second half to produce a victory.

No comeback has more convinced Duncan of the resiliency he admires than the Spurs’ recovery from a one-point deficit with just 7.1 seconds left in a 113-112 victory Thursday night in Denver.

Keep Reading... (http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2010/12/17/grind-it-out-wins-thrill-spurs/)

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2010/12/17/grind-it-out-wins-thrill-spurs/

[Agloco]

If you don't call that charge, it would set a dangerous precedent for end of game situations in the future.

If no charge call is made, what stops players from deliberately charging into people, knocking them to the floor, and scoring an easy dunk/lay in over the top if they feel that refs will inexorably swallow their whistles in that type of situation?

Watch a lot of end game basketball?

This is the entire point of the debate. Most of the time, refs DO swallow their whistles and let the players decide the game at the end. It's extremely rare to see a call like that at the buzzer, much less on the road, and even MUCH less against a superstar player like Melo.

It was an extremely lucky call we got. Redo that sequence 100 times again, and we get that call perhaps 3-4 times.

[ChuckD]

yeh it was a good call. Just one that you don't expect to be made at home with a game on the line. Unfortunately it is indicative of fans belief that the refs are bias and favour home teams.

It seems strange these days when a ref gets the call right in a close game :lol

As for the Melo trade, ill be glad when he is gone. Helluva player but he is a fame whore just like Lebron. I'd rather watch guys like AA, as opposed to Melo/LBJ etc

Woody Paige mentioned that there was rumour that the Nets would be willing to part with all 5 1st rd picks if it gets them Melo :greedy

Id rather D Favors and a couple of picks. I think Favors/Nene will be a nice frontcourt

I think you're right in calling him a fame whore. If he wanted to win the game, a quick scan of the lane would have showed that he had an easy pass for a layup to the man Manu completely left and turned his back on.

[spursfan1000]

It was the right call, and thats the bottom line. Great game.

[jestersmash]

Watch a lot of end game basketball?

This is the entire point of the debate. Most of the time, refs DO swallow their whistles and let the players decide the game at the end. It's extremely rare to see a call like that at the buzzer, much less on the road, and even MUCH less against a superstar player like Melo.

It was an extremely lucky call we got. Redo that sequence 100 times again, and we get that call perhaps 3-4 times.

Show me instances where people have drawn charges as clear as Manu did and it was a no call (or a blocking charge), because I don't believe you.

I believe the call yesterday was rare because players generally don't even attempt to take a charge in that situation, and if they have it certainly wasn't as clear cut and obvious as Ginobili's play.

You're suggesting that of all instances where a player has taken a charge on the game winning shot on the road as clear as Ginobili did the refs have swallowed their whistles 96-97% of the time. If you don't mind I'd be curious to see even one example of that.

[Man In Black]

Does this count as refs getting it wrong?
Mgksq3ShJyU

[jestersmash]

Does this count as refs getting it wrong?
Mgksq3ShJyU

Damn, not bad. That one I consider to be a 50/50 call. It can go either way. It looked like Kobe had already left his feet before the defender was completely squared up/set.

But damn, that is extremely close. Ginobili's was certainly more clear cut but not by much.

That video certainly makes me better appreciate the magnitude of Ginobili's call a lot more.

[TJastal]

Show me instances where people have drawn charges as clear as Manu did and it was a no call (or a blocking charge), because I don't believe you.

I believe the call yesterday was rare because players generally don't even attempt to take a charge in that situation, and if they have it certainly wasn't as clear cut and obvious as Ginobili's play.

You're suggesting that of all instances where a player has taken a charge on the game winning shot on the road as clear as Ginobili did the refs have swallowed their whistles 96-97% of the time. If you don't mind I'd be curious to see even one example of that.

+1000000000000

I've seen Ginobili take virtually identical textbook perfect charges during more insignificant games (and never in closing seconds) and the refs act stupid and swallow the whistle.

But like I said in a different thread. Its amazing how the refs suddenly get a jolt of inspiration in the final seconds of a significant game when they are presented with an obvious situation that would reflect very badly on them if they fucked it up. They know exactly how far they can go in "fudging" the calls & outcomes and Ginobili's charge was well beyond that sphere of influence.

[JR3]

Textbook Charge. Appreciate the tone in this thread though. Looking forward to the rematch in SA coming up.

[SpurSpurSpurs]

THe McDyess and Harrington foul should have been a no call, a double foul or a jump ball maybe? Both players were hooked into each other.

You should watch the replay again. How can that be a double foul? Al Harrington was pulling Dyess out of the play. Dyess was just pulling himself out of Harrington so he can slide in to help.

About the call, 50/50. If I were the ref near the basket, I'd call a defensive foul, but the two refs on top of the play made the right call from their view. There was a slight movement from Ginobili's feet. I don't know if that makes it a legit defensive foul (I may be wrong, no time to check the rules). Really though call, and those 2 refs really do have the balls to call that one on a last play.

Question, does the ref beneath the basket doesn't have to make a call? Is he the one who's in charge for any other violation other than the foul from the ball handler? Just curious if he's letting them play or was looking for other violations?

[Fpoonsie]

You should watch the replay again. How can that be a double foul? Al Harrington was pulling Dyess out of the play. Dyess was just pulling himself out of Harrington so he can slide in to help.


I think he's referring to the loose ball foul called against Dice a couple minutes earlier where he and Al had locked arms going for a rebound. Not pertinent to the discussion, necessarily, but I can understand the confusion...

[Maddog]

I thought it was a picture perfect charge. No one has argued that it wasn't. The only argument was whether it should be called or not. I guess that depends on what rules you think should be applied on the last possession of a close game.

Of course, if knocking over everything in your path on the last play of the game was absolutely permissible, Shaq would have been unstoppable in the day.

At times he was..
THe first few minutes of a game with the Lakers and you could tell if you had a chance by how they would start calling Shags "bumps"