Did the Magic get better or worse?

[Ari Gold]

Basically as in players getting dealt
Orlando lost : VC , Lewis,Gortat,Pietrus
Orlando got : Arenas, Turkoglu ,J-Rich , Earl Clark

Did they get better or worse?

[Darrin]

I like the backcourt, especially with Jameer Nelson coming off the bench. The Magic still have Brandon Bass, who has been playing out of his mind, and Dwight Howard upfront. They gave up the 3rd richest contract in the NBA. Hedo should improve the ball movement and they can run the pick-and-pop with Arenas and Hedo now. Defensively, they may lack something. But the risk had to be taken.

[tomtom]

They definitely trade defense for offense here so I think it might just come out to a wash

[LkrFan]

Magic got better.



Turkeyglue is the playmaker that VC never was. That means they are not relying solely on Jameer's "playmaking" abilities
Jameer and Gil are both essentially SGs that have some passing ability. The fact that they won't both be sole playmakers on the team with Turkeyglue in the fold is huge for them. Now they can spot up and play off the ball - without the offense stalling as has been in the past
Bass needed to start. He's no stud, but he is physical and has shown flashes. He's tough and will help D12 down low. Retard was not a PF in any sense of the word. Retard Lewis' inability to contend with KG means the Magic were never a threat. If his 3-ball wasn't falling he was useless. Bass fits what the Magic needs at PF and is improving. The fact that the Magic traded Retard shows me they believe in him.
J-Rich >>>> Carter at this point. He's a streaky shooter that sometimes plays with a chip on his shoulder. He should provide some youth and some fire to the Magic

The only thing I sweat if I'm a Magic fan is them giving up Gortat. Overrated or not, now D12 is the only center on the roster. The team they need to worry about is in Boston and not Miami. If they can gel I think they can at least take them to 6 games and maybe even upset them - due to the age factor of Boston's big 3. They are more balanced now so I think they will surprise.

I'm really interested in seeing what Turkeyglue's return to Orlando will do to their team. I compare Hedo to LO on the Lakers in a way. The Lakers have the ability to put pressure on your defense by having LO (a PF) rebound and ignite a fastbreak. That's a nice asset to have to be able to get some early offense before a team like Boston has a chance to set up their defense.

Magic just got better IMO

[Warlord23]

I think the trade is pretty much a wash, Arenas and Turk are unlikely to suddenly improve enough for the Magic to contend, and their frontcourt is not good enough to get past the Celtics or Heat. Overall they get worse because they lose the Polish fan base by trading Gortat :lol.

[HarlemHeat37]

Magic got better.



Turkeyglue is the playmaker that VC never was. That means they are not relying solely on Jameer's "playmaking" abilities
Jameer and Gil are both essentially SGs that have some passing ability. The fact that they won't both be sole playmakers on the team with Turkeyglue in the fold is huge for them. Now they can spot up and play off the ball - without the offense stalling as has been in the past
Bass needed to start. He's no stud, but he is physical and has shown flashes. He's tough and will help D12 down low. Retard was not a PF in any sense of the word. Retard Lewis' inability to contend with KG means the Magic were never a threat. If his 3-ball wasn't falling he was useless. Bass fits what the Magic needs at PF and is improving. The fact that the Magic traded Retard shows me they believe in him.
J-Rich >>>> Carter at this point. He's a streaky shooter that sometimes plays with a chip on his shoulder. He should provide some youth and some fire to the Magic

The only thing I sweat if I'm a Magic fan is them giving up Gortat. Overrated or not, now D12 is the only center on the roster. The team they need to worry about is in Boston and not Miami. If they can gel I think they can at least take them to 6 games and maybe even upset them - due to the age factor of Boston's big 3. They are more balanced now so I think they will surprise.

I'm really interested in seeing what Turkeyglue's return to Orlando will do to their team. I compare Hedo to LO on the Lakers in a way. The Lakers have the ability to put pressure on your defense by having LO (a PF) rebound and ignite a fastbreak. That's a nice asset to have to be able to get some early offense before a team like Boston has a chance to set up their defense.

Magic just got better IMO

:vomit:..

[LkrFan]

:vomit:..
:vomit:(LkrFan is on the Left, HarlemHeat37 is on the right)

[frodo]

looks they've reshuffled their cards which in many other cases would affect chemistry but that's not much of a concern in this case imho. Hedo & Hill just rejoined the old team, J-Rich will take the role VC used to play so he'll be fine too.

[rayjayjohnson]

Serious q, if lewis was the thrid most expensive contract in the league, who is one and two?

[rayjayjohnson]

Magic got better as long as hedo can, pardon the pun, get some of that magic back.

[frodo]

I think the trade is pretty much a wash, Arenas and Turk are unlikely to suddenly improve enough for the Magic to contend, and their frontcourt is not good enough to get past the Celtics or Heat. Overall they get worse because they lose the Polish fan base by trading Gortat :lol.

and they also lost a lot french fans as well by losing Pietrus. losing Pietrus will turn out a mistake imo, dude has been a solid performer on both ends and its really not easy to find a replacement for him. i reckon their starting lineups will be:

D-Howard
hedo
Hill
J-Rich
Nelson

subs: Gilbert etc...

[rayjayjohnson]

who said anything about hill?

[DeadlyDynasty]

Their problem last year was they were too finesse to handle the C's. So they go out and trade for 4 finesse offensive players...well done, Otis.

[Ace]

Magic got better.



Turkeyglue is the playmaker that VC never was. That means they are not relying solely on Jameer's "playmaking" abilities
Jameer and Gil are both essentially SGs that have some passing ability. The fact that they won't both be sole playmakers on the team with Turkeyglue in the fold is huge for them. Now they can spot up and play off the ball - without the offense stalling as has been in the past
Bass needed to start. He's no stud, but he is physical and has shown flashes. He's tough and will help D12 down low. Retard was not a PF in any sense of the word. Retard Lewis' inability to contend with KG means the Magic were never a threat. If his 3-ball wasn't falling he was useless. Bass fits what the Magic needs at PF and is improving. The fact that the Magic traded Retard shows me they believe in him.
J-Rich >>>> Carter at this point. He's a streaky shooter that sometimes plays with a chip on his shoulder. He should provide some youth and some fire to the Magic

The only thing I sweat if I'm a Magic fan is them giving up Gortat. Overrated or not, now D12 is the only center on the roster. The team they need to worry about is in Boston and not Miami. If they can gel I think they can at least take them to 6 games and maybe even upset them - due to the age factor of Boston's big 3. They are more balanced now so I think they will surprise.

I'm really interested in seeing what Turkeyglue's return to Orlando will do to their team. I compare Hedo to LO on the Lakers in a way. The Lakers have the ability to put pressure on your defense by having LO (a PF) rebound and ignite a fastbreak. That's a nice asset to have to be able to get some early offense before a team like Boston has a chance to set up their defense.

Magic just got better IMO

They have no defenders to guard Lebron or Wade. What does having Gorat do for them against Boston? Boston's advantage is having multiple defenders to send at Howard not the other way around. Besides being 6'10 how is Hedo like LO? Did you really put any thought into that?

[jacobdrj]

It is a wash. I am not sure they will ever recover from VanGundy's moronic decision to overplay Jameer in the Finals in favor of Rafer Alston. The reality is, as long as Jameer is a Magic, they will not be able to get over the hump.

[Venti Quattro]

The Magic... are fucked.

[JoeTait75]

How does this help them against Boston or Miami?

Not sure it does.

[Capt Bringdown]

I'd say getting rid of Rashard Lewis and Vince Carter is a plus, even when you consider the uncertain abilities and attitudes of Arenas and Turkoglu.
You know with absolute certainty what Rashard Lewis and Vince Carter do in the playoffs, so I reckon it's worth the gamble.

[Venti Quattro]

How does this help them against Boston or Miami?

Not sure it does.

Boston - they are fucked in the frontcourt

Miami - the height advantage they had is now gone, so they are also fucked

[LnGrrrR]

I really don't get the trade. It also might be because I hate the idea of a team that lives or dies by the three ball.

[DeadlyDynasty]

I'd say getting rid of Rashard Lewis and Vince Carter is a plus, even when you consider the uncertain abilities and attitudes of Arenas and Turkoglu.
You know with absolute certainty what Rashard Lewis and Vince Carter do in the playoffs, so I reckon it's worth the gamble.

I have no problem with them jettisoning VC and Lewis...they were overpaid and basically useless. Losing Pietrus (who is actually a pretty good defender) and a legit back-up big man were the bigger losses imo. Hedo's a perfect fit and should never have left...the rest of the bunch offer nothing new.

[LkrFan]

They have no defenders to guard Lebron or Wade. What does having Gorat do for them against Boston? Boston's advantage is having multiple defenders to send at Howard not the other way around. Besides being 6'10 how is Hedo like LO? Did you really put any thought into that?
Wrong thread so GTFO with that LeHype/Wade shit. I guarantee you they ain't winning shit. I'd sig bet you, but I know your punkass have no honor.

Like LO, Hedo can rebound a miss, take it coast to coast, dish, and shoot the 3. Not many players in the league 6'10" can do that. Too bad he isn't as tough nor play any defense. That's where the comparisons stop. Won't matter much to the Magic because they will try to out score you. Hedo helps them in that regard way more than Wince ever did.

You mention Boston's multiple defenders. With Hedo, Gil, and Jameer all on the court at once it is hard for them to shut down one player and have their offense stall like in the past. All can shoot the 3 and all can make plays for themselves and others. They should provide a lot of space for D12 to operate downlow.

I'm not saying they are coming out of the east, but the question was did they improve. I say yes - potentially...

[timvp]

Tough to say. A lot of ifs. If Arenas' isn't totally broken, if Hedo tries again and if J-Rich can put down the liquor, it'll probably make them better. But Arenas probably is broken, Hedo probably won't care now that he has his final NBA contract and J-Rich probably will probably keeping getting his drank on.

That said, they weren't going anywhere before the trade. They weren't going to win anything relying on VC's non-competitiveness and Lewis' quickly declining game.

[Technique]

They got worse simply because they just ripped apart their core and are starting the team chemistry all over in the middle of the season.

Granted they do still have time, but this trade is more of a desperation trade to make something happen rather than an actual improvement to their roster.

[Texas_Ranger]

I guess they are better, but still not that great as Boston or Miami.

They don't have a bigman when Howard goes out.

[UnWantedTheory]

I think the trade works out for everyone. PHX gets some decent young players in Gortat & Pietrus, & can get rid of VC after the year.(?)Also, I believe a 1st, so that is good. They may possibly have talent enough to still squeak into the PO's, which was all they were going to do anyways. The Magic had to shake things up, so getting Hedo back, who fit so well previously, & a young talented JRich is a decent deal. The Reshard/Arenas trade Idk about. It actually might be a good fit. Both are terrible contracts for the Magic so eh. It probably helps the jam at G with the Wiz & getting rid of Arenas is a major plus for them. I dont really think the Magic greatly improved, but I do think that down the road they will be better for it. To be honest, they were not going to truly challenge for the chip this year so why not? It makes them better, if only marginally. The ugly side of that trade for ORL is losing Gortat, since now they only have 1 legit C. It will be interesting to see how they figure out that G rotation from here on out. Who knows it could have been genius. I am not too worried about them though.

[Scola]

Somewhat better.
I did like the Lewis for Arenas swap, I feel that Arenas is more likely to show up in a big game situation. Plus Arenas might try for the first year since he wants to repair his image.
The second deal w/ Phoenix is ok, but it will depend on how Turk plays, what they do w/ Richardson this off-season, and if Arenas can stay healthy. Hedo's ($10M) & Arenas' ($18M) contract's are both kinda long at 4 years each. Losing Gortat will hurt since finding a decent 7 foot backup is kinda hard. In the end they're still better built than the Heat and I think they would win in a 7 game series.

[Spurs Brazil]

They got better but not enought to win the East. Lewis and Carter were playing horrible

[Ace]

Wrong thread so GTFO with that LeHype/Wade shit. I guarantee you they ain't winning shit. I'd sig bet you, but I know your punkass have no honor.
You mentioned the Heat saying they are not the ones to worry about. I was just stating that now they have no one to guard either Wade or Lebron. Don't get your panties in a wad.

Like LO, Hedo can rebound a miss, take it coast to coast, dish, and shoot the 3. Not many players in the league 6'10" can do that. Too bad he isn't as tough nor play any defense. That's where the comparisons stop.
Hedo not is anywhere close to the defender or rebounder LO is so saying they're similar is reaching IMO

You mention Boston's multiple defenders. With Hedo, Gil, and Jameer all on the court at once it is hard for them to shut down one player and have their offense stall like in the past. All can shoot the 3 and all can make plays for themselves and others. They should provide a lot of space for D12 to operate down low
I mentioned Boston multiple defenders, but the ones they can send at Howard are who I was referring to. Shaq and Perkins are capable of guarding him one on one, therefore everyone else can stay at home on shooters.

[himat]

Well I don't think this question can be answered yet. Personally, I think the move is just a move right now. It doesn't make them much better or worse. If they can deal for some front court depth in the near future though, which I am sure they are trying to do, then yes they will be much better.

Right now I think Orlando could beat Miami if they got hot, but not Boston. They need to get some new front court depth behind Howard ASAP.

[Phillip]

Suns got the best of this trade, definitely.

[Darrin]

Serious q, if lewis was the thrid most expensive contract in the league, who is one and two?

According to Hoopshype.com, he is due to make 20 million this season. That is second only to Kobe's 24 million.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries.htm

[DynastySpurs210]

Well I believe the suns got the best of this deal, getting rid of jrich and hedos overrated contract gives them a huge financal boost. Um and for the magic uh Idk, were in the hell are they pulling out this kinda cash to pay for arenas,j rich and hedo??? Not to mention d Howard and a new stadium.

[DazedAndConfused]

Defensively this team will suffer.

Hedo, J-Rich, and Arenas are not known for their defensive prowess, and against teams with quality SF's like Boston/Miami they will have trouble on the perimeter. Offensively they should improve, I never felt that Carter was a good fit at all. Hedo is the PERFECT fit for the Magic's system and they will welcome him back, J-Rich and Arenas are wild cards but my gut is telling me they will do well in the Magic offense.

They still need some more pieces, but overall this should help them move in the direction they want to go in.

[LkrFan]

You mentioned the Heat saying they are not the ones to worry about. I was just stating that now they have no one to guard either Wade or Lebron. Don't get your panties in a wad.
I didn't mention the Hype in this thread - you did.


Hedo not is anywhere close to the defender or rebounder LO is so saying they're similar is reaching IMO
Tell me something I don't know. I said Hedo is 6'10", can ignite a fast break, and can take it the distance just like LO can. I even said he can't play defense like LO. Reading is fundamental.

I mentioned Boston multiple defenders, but the ones they can send at Howard are who I was referring to. Shaq and Perkins are capable of guarding him one on one, therefore everyone else can stay at home on shooters.Boston does have multiple post defenders to throw at D12 - agreed. 39 year old Shaq guarding D12 one on one - disagreed. Porkins - yes if he returns healthy.

[WeNeedLength]

Their defense is going to suck ass now. J-Rich should improve their offense though since Lewis and Carter were choking on it most of the time to start the season. I say it's a wash as someone else said. It will be interesting to see how the Suns are now.

[duncan228]

LeBron James understands why Orlando brought Hedo Turkoglu back (http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/12/19/lebron-james-understands-why-orlando-brought-hedo-turkoglu-back/)
Matt Moore

When the Orlando Magic reacquired Hedo Turkoglu this weekend in their batch of megatrades (http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/12/18/done-deal-magic-trades-phoenix-vince-carter-and-others-for-jason-richardson-hedo-turkoglu/), the biggest reaction was confusion. Why would they bring back Turkoglu, who had been let go in 2009 because the Magic felt his skills would erode with age, and then that exact thing occurred? He was a washout with Toronto after he signed his huge deal with them. When you signing elsewhere is something the Blazers are grateful for, you’re in bad shape. He was just as unimpressive with Phoenix. Who could possibly explain why the Magic wanted him back in blue?

LeBron James, that’s who.

From Wizards blog TruthAboutIt.Net, who caught up with James after the Wizards’ devastating loss to the Heat (http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/12/19/wizards-lose-to-heat-in-impressive-fashion-even-for-wizards/):


“I’ve thought that it was surprising when Turk (Hedo Turkoglu) wasn’t brought back the year after they beat us [Cleveland Cavaliers]. I just thought what Turk created for their team, that point-four created everything. He always created a mismatch and that was part of the reason why they beat us. There were times I would switch off onto Turk and they would go to Rashard (Lewis). Sometimes I would go on Rashard and they would go to Turk. We were too small on the perimeter during those years … I know they’re happy to have him back. It’s gonna be different, it’s going to be a different transition because I know when you break up a team and bring guys in it takes a while. We’ll see what happens.”

via Truth About It » Quote Mix: Ten good minutes with a mumbling LeBron James (http://www.truthaboutit.net/2010/12/washington-wizards-miami-heat-quote-mix-ten-good-minutes-with-a-mumbling-lebron-james.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TruthAboutIt+%28Truth+About+I t+-+Washington+Wizards+Blog%29).

James has had his fair share of experiences with changes to contending teams. His Cavs made several moves mid-season to try and get them over the top, including acquiring Ben Wallace and Wally Szczerbiak (yes, this was a real plan), and another move to acquire Antawn Jamison. Of course, that neither move wound up netting the small-market Cavaliers a championship, nor did they keep LeBron James in town should not go unnoticed as everyone starts glancing at Dwight Howard out of the corner of their eyes.

It was revealing though to read James’ comments about the Magic’s ability to work over a stout Cavalier defense in 2009 with Turkoglu running point forward. It was that mechanism that could kick start defensive rotations to cover, enabling the Magic to find the open three-point shooter. The Cavs weren’t the only team that fell victim to that tactic though, as the much heralded Boston Celtics also lost to the Turkoglu Magic. But of course, you have to mention, everyone together, say it with me…

Kevin Garnett didn’t play in that series.

It was two years ago, and hoping for a repeat of that performance is probably a fool’s errand considering the inevitable downward slide of Turkoglu’s abilities which have already lost quite a bit, and Boston being some sort of hell beast sent to destroy us all this season. But if you’re looking for why Orlando might think it that important, James points out a salient point.

Also, he thinks Justin Bieber is a “cook kid, man.” So there’s that.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/12/19/lebron-james-understands-why-orlando-brought-hedo-turkoglu-back/

[Koolaid_Man]

Basically as in players getting dealt
Orlando lost : VC , Lewis,Gortat,Pietrus
Orlando got : Arenas, Turkoglu ,J-Rich , Earl Clark

Did they get better or worse?


maybe better offensively been weaker defensively and defense is what wins titles when it counts....and Arenas, Jameer, Hedo, J Rich, ain't stopping no fucking body...Magic doing everything they can to keep Dwight but mark Kool's words...that Nigga will be traded to LA for Bynum in a couple years...Kobe will be sitting on 7 rings when Dwight joins him...paving the way for another 3 after that which will leave Kobe with 10 total and just one shy of Bill Russell...:lol

Man you gotta love being a Lakers fan...the past was great, the present is marvelous , and future looks fucking fabulous..:toast

[21_Blessings]

Got better by simply shipping off Carter. You won't go anywhere with that loser playing significant minutes.

[Xylus]

Tough to say. A lot of ifs. If Arenas' isn't totally broken, if Hedo tries again and if J-Rich can put down the liquor, it'll probably make them better. But Arenas probably is broken, Hedo probably won't care now that he has his final NBA contract and J-Rich probably will probably keeping getting his drank on.

That said, they weren't going anywhere before the trade. They weren't going to win anything relying on VC's non-competitiveness and Lewis' quickly declining game.

Say what? JRich doesn't have a drinking problem. I think you're referring to the DUI he got two years ago, but he's been an upstanding citizen ever since. Great teammate, great locker room guy, he'll be great for the Magic, no doubt.

[boutons_deux]

Hedo was a decent rebounder for the Spurs, 6 or 7 per game.

No reason a six-tenner can't get that every game (except laziness or ballessness)