This is not a championship caliber team

[GSH]

This is not a championship caliber team. Not now, anyway. They could develop into one. But with the stunts they have pulled the last several nights - the unforced errors in crunch time? Not a chance. And the most disturbing part is that a lot of the worst mental errors are being committed by their best players.

Tonight they had a 5 point lead, and possession of the ball, with about 1:10 left. Instead of running off some time and looking for a high percentage shot late in the clock, they tried to force an alley-oop on a damned fast break, and used up what? Four seconds? Stupid.

And can they really be so casual in overtime that they fail to bring the ball across mid-court within 8 seconds? Seriously? In overtime, with the game on the line? I know Parker is talented, and he was a beast - in the fourth quarter especially. But every team has talented players, who can dominate quarters. Championship teams have a sense of urgency. Runner-up teams look back on all the opportunities they missed throughout the season.

You could argue that the Spurs keep finding some way to come out on top. You could - but it would be a ridiculous argument. Only the fact that Memphis is a young, sub-.500 team allowed the Spurs to even get to overtime. The Spurs did everything they could to give the game away, and any better team would have said "Thank you" and gone home with a W. The previous two games required miracle plays by Manu. But when you look at how close Manu's last shot in Denver came to rolling out, or how close his last shot against Milwaukee came to being a travel, you have to recognize that the Spurs could just as easily be sitting on a 3 game losing streak. As good as Manu and Tony played at the end of those games, the W's are still a matter of luck.

Championships aren't won on luck. The Spurs have quite literally thrown away three games in a row with stupid, lackadaisical play down the stretch. The fact that the basketball gods chose to go dumpster diving and give the games back doesn't mean a thing. The basketball gods take the months of May and June off.

The Spurs have the talent, now, to win another championship. They have a better bench than they have had in years. And any of their Big 3 can rise to the level of hero on any given night. But even that won't be enough to overcome the kind of stupid unforced errors they have committed in the last few games. They began the season believing that they needed to get off to a fast start. Lately they seem to have gone back to the attitude that a loss or two, here and there, is no big deal. Losing a few games won't kill them - but the attitude will. There are no gimmes in the NBA, and every game along the way is important. Championship teams live and breath that.

[HarlemHeat37]

I don't think they are a championship team yet either, but games like these are pretty meaningless IMO..the defending champion Lakers had plenty of games like these where they needed last second shots to win, same with the Celtics..

As long as they aren't dropping the games and are still the #1 seed, it's fine with me..

[jestersmash]

You call that alley oop a mental error? It wasn't forced. It wasn't anything beyond the capabilities of what R.J. can do as a finisher around the rim. The ball slipped out of his hands and he knew he missed an easy one. It was written all over his reaction after the play.

And, if you think this isn't a championship-caliber team right now, I'd be interested to hear what you think about the Lakers..right now, or the Heat..right now, or Dallas.. right now.

I don't understand the point of such gloom and doom threads after a 23-3 start. People have generally been pretty good about not hyping up the start either, so I don't understand the point of this thread.

[BanditHiro]

You call that alley oop a mental error? It wasn't forced. It wasn't anything beyond the capabilities of what R.J. can do as a finisher around the rim. The ball slipped out of his hands and he knew he missed an easy one. It was written all over his reaction after the play.

And, if you think this isn't a championship-caliber team right now, I'd be interested to hear what you think about the Lakers..right now, or the Heat..right now, or Dallas.. right now.

I don't understand the point of such gloom and doom threads after a 23-3 start. People have generally been pretty good about not hyping up the start either, so I don't understand the point of this thread.

autoimmune fans need something to complain about

[ClingingMars]

it's the regular season

talk to me in March

for Pop, this is the pre-season

[GSH]

I don't think they are a championship team yet either, but games like these are pretty meaningless IMO..the defending champion Lakers had plenty of games like these where they needed last second shots to win, same with the Celtics..




Needing a last-second shot to win is one thing. Needing a last-second shot to win because you failed to call a time out, and inbounded the ball under the opponent's basket, is another thing. In the NBA, all the players are pretty damned good. And on some nights they are going to outplay you. On the nights when you outplay them, you can't afford to keep handing the ball back to them with stupid plays. They will beat you a good percentage of the time.

If you're a football fan, think about the teams that gain a lot of yardage every game, but don't score in the red zone. It's a sure sign of a mentally weak team. The Spurs have been mentally weak in the last few games, especially in crunch time, which is where a lot of games are won or lost.

I disagree that throw-away games along the way are unimportant. So far they have managed to get the W's. But this stuff will catch up with them.

[TD 21]

Never take a snapshot of the NBA season and declare that what a team is, unless it was already definitively that beforehand (like the Clippers, Kings, Timberwolves, Warriors, Raptors, Bobcats, Wizards, Pistons, Cavaliers and Nets, who are all terrible teams . . . it doesn't matter if they're in the midst of a five game winning streak or they fluke out and win seven out of ten, etc.).

A team like the Spurs, we know they're very good. We don't quite know yet if they're great. Ultimately, we won't even begin to be able to answer that until we see multiple games against the other elite teams. But really, we won't know until the playoffs. The only time we've seen this group in the playoffs, they were swept in the 2nd round. Not exactly an extensive track record. We know they've improved since then, though.

The only two teams in the league that it can be said with certainty that they're championship caliber are the Lakers and the Celtics. Everyone else, we're just making educated guesses at this point.

[Hoops Czar]

it's only December...

[L.I.T]

Winning streaks of 12 and 8 games are pretty good indicators of the potential for a team to make some noise in the playoffs.

No team wins every game in a dominating fashion, especially during an 82 game season. There will be lulls over stretches and in games. However, the Spurs have shown a remarkable resiliency when it comes to pulling out victories or making the necessary stops and plays to pull out games. Go back to any season the Spurs made it deep in the playoffs and you'll find multiple games where they played lackadaisical or made mental errors in the 4th quarter and during crunch time moments.

I find the argument that the Spurs are showing a lack of urgency on the court when they have a 23-3 record odd. By no means are they that talented of a team to be able to 'coast' along to that type of record.

There are many reasons why the Spurs aren't necessarily top-tier contenders; chief among them what the Clippers/TWolves/Grizzly have exposed. But their mental focus I don't think is one of them.

[gospursgojas]

Spurs on coast mode, playing down to opponent's level

[Mikesatx]

Mental Errors, off nights, shit happens. Your focussing on the fact that the team almost lost how about the fact that instead of hanging their heads they took each and every game. 2 of their 3 losses this year came on nights when Tony didn't show up. Dallas needed a 12-14 night from Dirk and a complete off night from Tony to get the W.

Go watch other teams that you are concerned about and then watch the Spurs. There is no doubt they are the best team in the league today. Boston is right there, the Lakers haven't hit their stride yet but they will and Dallas is still Dallas. Miami won't beat San Antonio, Boston or LA this year.

[BanditHiro]

Didn't read, but I disagree.

lol

[mingus]

Team is going to have major trouble against Boston and LA if Splitter isn't a key ingrediant to it. I think the Spurs are pretenders if they are running with the rotation of bigs they have going right now.

[jjktkk]

This is not a championship caliber team. Not now, anyway. They could develop into one. But with the stunts they have pulled the last several nights - the unforced errors in crunch time? Not a chance. And the most disturbing part is that a lot of the worst mental errors are being committed by their best players.

Tonight they had a 5 point lead, and possession of the ball, with about 1:10 left. Instead of running off some time and looking for a high percentage shot late in the clock, they tried to force an alley-oop on a damned fast break, and used up what? Four seconds? Stupid.

And can they really be so casual in overtime that they fail to bring the ball across mid-court within 8 seconds? Seriously? In overtime, with the game on the line? I know Parker is talented, and he was a beast - in the fourth quarter especially. But every team has talented players, who can dominate quarters. Championship teams have a sense of urgency. Runner-up teams look back on all the opportunities they missed throughout the season.

You could argue that the Spurs keep finding some way to come out on top. You could - but it would be a ridiculous argument. Only the fact that Memphis is a young, sub-.500 team allowed the Spurs to even get to overtime. The Spurs did everything they could to give the game away, and any better team would have said "Thank you" and gone home with a W. The previous two games required miracle plays by Manu. But when you look at how close Manu's last shot in Denver came to rolling out, or how close his last shot against Milwaukee came to being a travel, you have to recognize that the Spurs could just as easily be sitting on a 3 game losing streak. As good as Manu and Tony played at the end of those games, the W's are still a matter of luck.

Championships aren't won on luck. The Spurs have quite literally thrown away three games in a row with stupid, lackadaisical play down the stretch. The fact that the basketball gods chose to go dumpster diving and give the games back doesn't mean a thing. The basketball gods take the months of May and June off.

The Spurs have the talent, now, to win another championship. They have a better bench than they have had in years. And any of their Big 3 can rise to the level of hero on any given night. But even that won't be enough to overcome the kind of stupid unforced errors they have committed in the last few games. They began the season believing that they needed to get off to a fast start. Lately they seem to have gone back to the attitude that a loss or two, here and there, is no big deal. Losing a few games won't kill them - but the attitude will. There are no gimmes in the NBA, and every game along the way is important. Championship teams live and breath that.

:rolleyes Thanks for pep talk coach.

[gospursgojas]

On the contrary, this team reminds me of our championship teams...

Spurs build big lead, get bored lose lead...Pop calls time out, Spurs re-gain lead.
Spurs build big lead, get bored lose lead...Pop puts in 3rd stringers, Spurs re-gain lead.

When the lineup of Quin, Neal, Bonner, Udoka, and Manu can give spurs a lead, they're doing alright.

[Hoops Czar]

Look on the bright side... Splitter had two assists in eight minutes.

[mingus]

Also. Duncan is going to have to be in Beastmode like he was against Denver for the Spurs to have a shot.

[jjktkk]

Didn't read, but I disagree.

:lmao

[GSH]

You call that alley oop a mental error? It wasn't forced. It wasn't anything beyond the capabilities of what R.J. can do as a finisher around the rim. The ball slipped out of his hands and he knew he missed an easy one. It was written all over his reaction after the play.

And, if you think this isn't a championship-caliber team right now, I'd be interested to hear what you think about the Lakers..right now, or the Heat..right now, or Dallas.. right now.

I don't understand the point of such gloom and doom threads after a 23-3 start. People have generally been pretty good about not hyping up the start either, so I don't understand the point of this thread.


What's the point in any thread? I'm as big of a homer as anyone here. And there's no gloom and doom. I'm mostly saying that the last 3 wins are nothing to celebrate. It's one thing if another team comes out and outplays you on any given night. That's going to happen. The Spurs have been very, very sloppy down the stretch the last several games.

And if you think that alley-oop was a smart play at that point in the game, you're just plain-old wrong. If they had been able to get a lay-up while only using up 4 seconds, that would have been fine. But the Grizzlies got back in transition. The pass had to be perfect, and Manu tried to force it in anyway. The smart play was running some clock. That wasn't a smart play.

Say what you want, but the Spurs are a short and curly away from riding a 3 game losing streak. And none of those 3 games should have been nail-biters. Wouldn't have been, without some really stupid play in the last few minutes.

[HarlemHeat37]

I don't think the Spurs are a legit contender yet, but that's due to my lack of confidence in the frontcourt, outside of Duncan, and perimeter defenders..hopefully Anderson helps, he was already showing flashes..

[100%duncan]

stfu. you post on game blogs like ur a damn priest and now you post this.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

3 games in 4 nights. We made some very poor errors, admittedly, but it's the middle of December and this team has every chance to grow into a killer by April.

[TD 21]

I think they are a legit contender because I only see two teams that I can understand being considered more likely to win the championship than them. If you're third most likely (definitely no worse than fourth), it's tough not to be a contender.

But we'll see after they play some games against the elite teams. I'd suggest not reading too much into this recent stretch. Sure, it's annoying and frustrating, but it's par for the course in an 82 game season.

[suitedkings]

Best part of this thread is seeing the pic in gospursgojas signature.

[mystargtr34]

Spurs arent true championship contenders IMO either (despite what the record might suggest) but that realisation had nothing to do with this game.

I cant see any scenario where a team can win a championship with DeJuan Blair and Matt Bonner as its 2nd and 3rd best bigs... especially when you look at what the contenders have up front. If anything... the Spurs W-L record is giving people a false sense of hope. Something doesnt feel right about the team.. like its lacking real championship pedigree outside of the Big 3.. but it could be just me.

[jjktkk]

What about good teams find a way to win?

[SpursDynasty]

]From 2007-2010, the Spurs were too old, not athletic enough, and didn't have enough scoring, and winning 50-52 games the past couple of seasons was not enough.

Now, the Spurs are younger, more athletic, score more, are off to a 23-3 record, and that's not good enough?

[jestersmash]

I don't think the Spurs are a legit contender yet, but that's due to my lack of confidence in the frontcourt, outside of Duncan, and perimeter defenders..hopefully Anderson helps, he was already showing flashes..

This, I agree with this.

I simply wasn't persuaded by the reasons the OP gave for arguing why the Spurs aren't championship-caliber right now. You're highlighting the wrong things. There are far more fundamental, pressing issues with the Spurs than missing an easy alley-oop or turning the ball over in crunch time.

If you had to make a thread discussing why the Spurs aren't championship-caliber yet, it probably should've focused on the fact that we haven't developed Tiago to the level he needs to be at if we want to satisfactorily match up against a healthy L.A.'s front court, to give one example.

Harping on basic, mental errors is overrated. Those are errors that are easily rectified for future games, and if anything you should be glad that the Spurs are learning those lessons early on...in the regular season..while winning.

[GSH]

3 games in 4 nights. We made some very poor errors, admittedly, but it's the middle of December and this team has every chance to grow into a killer by April.


Ahh... the voice of reason. Couldn't agree more. I even think they will.

And if they have grown into a killer by April, they won't be doing some of the stupid shit they have done the last 3 games. You can throw away 45 minutes of great play with 3 minutes of carelessness.

I didn't think even the hardened homers would disagree with that.




Harping on basic, mental errors is overrated. Those are errors that are easily rectified for future games, and if anything you should be glad that the Spurs are learning those lessons early on...in the regular season..while winning.

Heh... mental errors overrated? I wonder what Pop would say about that?

[Capt Bringdown]

I don't think the Spurs are a legit contender yet, but that's due to my lack of confidence in the frontcourt, outside of Duncan, and perimeter defenders..hopefully Anderson helps, he was already showing flashes..

Agreed. Blair as a starter is a cute enough gimmick for regular season, but not good enough for the rigors/demands of a championship drive. I have been pleasantly surprised with Bonner's play the last couple of games, but consistency is a problem with him.

[jestersmash]

Heh... mental errors overrated? I wonder what Pop would say about that?

Man, I've actually had nightmares where I was a player for the Spurs getting chewed the fuck out by Pop :lol

He's about as intimidating as they come, but at the same time I appreciate the fact that he knows when to pull back in order to extract the best out of a player. I love the fact that he almost never will get mad at you for missing a shot. Instead, he'll get mad at you for not shooting a wide open shot, even if you're not one of the top 3 star players on this team.

It's precisely that kind of coaching that allows players like Matt Bonner to go 5-7, 6-8, 7-7 from 3 point land periodically when we really need it.

[Cry Havoc]

The (arguably) greatest team in NBA history lost 10 games in the regular season.

They lost to bad teams.

They lost in overtime.

They lost some close games.

They got blown out by 30.

And that's the greatest team in history. What team doesn't make stupid gaffes throughout the season? What team doesn't lose winnable games, what team doesn't win loseable games?

How many bad games did our title teams have?

This is a fear-mongering thread.

WE ARE 23-3.

We are WINNING GAMES.

THAT IS ALL THAT MATTERS.

[DeadlyDynasty]

One thing I can say about the Spurs that I've never been able to say before this year: they are fun to watch. They are a WCF contender for sure. :tu

[jestersmash]

One thing I can say about the Spurs that I've never been able to say before this year: they are fun to watch. They are a WCF contender for sure. :tu

Not only that, but Spurs-Lakers is an actual rivalry that I think we can all look forward to watching in the playoffs.

It's laughable how the media is trying to fabricate new rivalries out of thin air. Knicks-Boston? Seriously? I loved Paul Pierce's response to this issue, by the way. Guy was just taken aback that people actually think there is some sort of rivalry between 2010 Celtics and 2010 Knicks. What a joke.

Now they're trying to re-kindle the Knicks-Heat rivalry? What a god damned joke.

To be an actual rivalry, I'd say one of the most fundamental pre-requisites is that both teams have to be of comparable skill.

Spurs/Lakers
Lakers/Celtics

These are matchups worthy of being called "rivalries."

[gospursgojas]

ESPN cant hide its Lebron 11 games in a row or whatever and Knicks winning boner right now.

[MaNu4Tres]

TD 21 Agreed with everything :tu

HH Agreed on front-court take (Only thing worrying me about this team; other than health of big 3 and how Anderson comes back from the injury.)

[GSH]

The (arguably) greatest team in NBA history lost 10 games in the regular season.

They lost to bad teams.




You're kidding, right? You're seriously fucking kidding?

That team only lost 6 games in two seasons to non-playoff teams. And several of those were teams that were .500 or better, but still didn't make the playoffs. It doesn't have anything to do with the Spurs this season, but damn.

[Cessation]

they are just playing down to these bottom feeders

[rmt]

Spurs arent true championship contenders IMO either (despite what the record might suggest) but that realisation had nothing to do with this game.

I cant see any scenario where a team can win a championship with DeJuan Blair and Matt Bonner as its 2nd and 3rd best bigs... especially when you look at what the contenders have up front. If anything... the Spurs W-L record is giving people a false sense of hope. Something doesnt feel right about the team.. like its lacking real championship pedigree outside of the Big 3.. but it could be just me.

I agree. Bonner and Blair will not work against the big front lines of LAL and BOS. Spurs made their big run with Splitter on the floor, but he ended up with only 8 mins.

BOS is so deep in the front court I think they could even survive an injury to KG. Bynum/Gasol/Odom have too much length for TD and whoever Pop puts out there because it won't be Splitter. Against 2 post players like Randolph and Gasol, Pop still plays Blair/Bonner/Dice and watches as Randolph continually rebounds the ball for easy put backs.

[DeadlyDynasty]

I agree. Bonner and Blair will not work against the big front lines of LAL and BOS. Spurs made their big run with Splitter on the floor, but he ended up with only 8 mins.

BOS is so deep I think they could even survive an injury to one of their big 3. Bynum/Gasol/Odom have too much length for TD and whoever Pop puts out there because it won't be Splitter. Against 2 post players like Randolph and Gasol, Pop still plays Blair/Bonner/Dice and watches as Randolph continually rebounds the ball for easy put backs.

The goods :tu

[polandprzem]

I agree. Bonner and Blair will not work against the big front lines of LAL and BOS. Spurs made their big run with Splitter on the floor, but he ended up with only 8 mins.

BOS is so deep in the front court I think they could even survive an injury to KG. Bynum/Gasol/Odom have too much length for TD and whoever Pop puts out there because it won't be Splitter. Against 2 post players like Randolph and Gasol, Pop still plays Blair/Bonner/Dice and watches as Randolph continually rebounds the ball for easy put backs.

And credits Randolph for doing it

[BUMP]

ESPN cant hide its Lebron 11 games in a row or whatever and Knicks winning boner right now.

lol ugly
lol ugly sister

[GSH]

You know what's ironic is that, unlike a lot of people here, I'm not worried about their frontcourt. I'm not worried about Splitter's minutes, or Blair's height. I'm not worried that they are shooting too many 3-pointers, or even that their defense isn't the same as it used to be. I wouldn't have been worried if they had lost any of the last 3 games.

Piss poor clock management, and utter carelessness in crunch time - those are the things that runner-up teams do. That 8 second violation... IN OVERTIME still has me pulling my hair out. That wasn't Beno out there, it was one of the best PG's in the league.

I think this team, with the way Pop is letting them run, has what it takes to grind down any other team in the league in 7 games. I've said so from the start. But the kind of stuff they've done recently won't get them there. And those things are sort of like missed free throws - they can be contagious. If you lose three in a row (instead of winning 3 coin-tosses), a lot of players start pressing. Especially younger players, of which we have several.

The Nuggets believe that they beat the Spurs, and got screwed. If the Spurs hadn't done some VERY stupid things, the Nuggets would be thinking "We gave it our best shot, and we still can't beat them." That's what will make this a championship caliber team.

[HankChinaski]

TD & HH made some points with their reasoning. Me honestly, I can't go and judge this team not being championship contenders till we have at least seen what we can do against teams like Boston, LA, Dallas a bit more extensively.

All i know is that in previous years when one of the big three had a bad night it practically guaranteed a loss.

That hasn't been the case this year. In slumps in game where Manu/Parker/Duncan have come out not firing well on the offensive end we have had a bench come out on the floor and play well with the minutes given.

And when are you guys going to stop living in the past and realize this team isn't going to be the defensive half court operated monsters it used to live by?

It's a team adjusting to variation of play while still finding a medium with providing great team defense when they are focused.

Now games like tonight and the last two before where they just make errors of judgement in game makes them look bad in a certain light....it doesn't determine for me that they are not a champ caliber team.

[cutewizard]

This is not a championship caliber team. Not now, anyway. They could develop into one. But with the stunts they have pulled the last several nights - the unforced errors in crunch time? Not a chance. And the most disturbing part is that a lot of the worst mental errors are being committed by their best players.

Tonight they had a 5 point lead, and possession of the ball, with about 1:10 left. Instead of running off some time and looking for a high percentage shot late in the clock, they tried to force an alley-oop on a damned fast break, and used up what? Four seconds? Stupid.

And can they really be so casual in overtime that they fail to bring the ball across mid-court within 8 seconds? Seriously? In overtime, with the game on the line? I know Parker is talented, and he was a beast - in the fourth quarter especially. But every team has talented players, who can dominate quarters. Championship teams have a sense of urgency. Runner-up teams look back on all the opportunities they missed throughout the season.

You could argue that the Spurs keep finding some way to come out on top. You could - but it would be a ridiculous argument. Only the fact that Memphis is a young, sub-.500 team allowed the Spurs to even get to overtime. The Spurs did everything they could to give the game away, and any better team would have said "Thank you" and gone home with a W. The previous two games required miracle plays by Manu. But when you look at how close Manu's last shot in Denver came to rolling out, or how close his last shot against Milwaukee came to being a travel, you have to recognize that the Spurs could just as easily be sitting on a 3 game losing streak. As good as Manu and Tony played at the end of those games, the W's are still a matter of luck.

Championships aren't won on luck. The Spurs have quite literally thrown away three games in a row with stupid, lackadaisical play down the stretch. The fact that the basketball gods chose to go dumpster diving and give the games back doesn't mean a thing. The basketball gods take the months of May and June off.

The Spurs have the talent, now, to win another championship. They have a better bench than they have had in years. And any of their Big 3 can rise to the level of hero on any given night. But even that won't be enough to overcome the kind of stupid unforced errors they have committed in the last few games. They began the season believing that they needed to get off to a fast start. Lately they seem to have gone back to the attitude that a loss or two, here and there, is no big deal. Losing a few games won't kill them - but the attitude will. There are no gimmes in the NBA, and every game along the way is important. Championship teams live and breath that.


Still a long way.

Well see in June.

In the end, the strongest team wins.

[HankChinaski]

Whoever was mentioning I can't see a team win with having Blair/Bonner in your starting lineup...shut up.

Just because Blair walks out with the starting line up every game this season doesn't mean he is going to be closing every game with them. This rotation of the front court is just me thinking Pop is trying to manage the minutes of Duncan and Dice.

If you have been watching every game so far this season like I have you can see how Pop has been utilizing Bonner and Blair in some extend periods in the first half to manage Duncan and Dice more efficiently into the second half to close out the games. And depending how either Bonner and Blair look he'll play one over the other for majority playing time to rest out Duncan/Dice.

Splitter just isn't ready to be getting a large chunk of the playing time off the bench just yet. My thoughts on him as of right now. Terrific footwork on defense, manageable position and boxing out man in the paint on the glass (yet despite that isn't generating rebounds per game like he could be able to.), shows ability to pass in and out of the post, ability to play and create in the post. He just doesn't seem to know what set role he should be providing every game. I mentioned this before earlier in an older thread but I truly believe Pop hasn't really given any real role for Splitter this year yet. He just throws him out as an energy guy much like Blair last year. If we were playing more back into a half court set offense every single position that always feed it into their big in the post ala the Duncan years then I could see him flourishing better. That isn't this team setup right now. It's faster and driven by it's back court slashing into the paint to create for the shooters outside and around the bucket. Overall he needs more polish with the system and that's going to be an off-season into training camp type of situation with Splitter. For now, i'm content with where he is right now.

We have a terrific back-court, above average to pretty good front-court. If we could play duncan and dice 35 minutes a game all season and into the playoffs without seeing a drop-off in performance or wear and tear the coaching staff would do so. But that isn't the case and more importantly they have to evaluate during the regular season what this current squad from last year can do against the elites now that they are playing better.

[temujin]

I agree.
But not because of the error with the 8'' clock.

Because Bonner most likely will play in the 4th in PO games as well, and Spurs have ZERO chance to make it to the Final without Splitter playing big time.

As easy as that.

[TDMVPDPOY]

23-3 u mad?

[mingus]

the team has frontcourt deficiencies, but the heart on that this team is demonstrating early on is great. it's a team on the decline, but figthing its hardest to keep the window open and defy critics, and you gotta love that. that's all you can ask for.

[mystargtr34]

One thing I can say about the Spurs that I've never been able to say before this year: they are fun to watch. They are a WCF contender for sure. :tu

Only if Dallas can knock off the Lakers for them... tbh.

[G-Dawgg]

Their offense is sick, and will win them games... but unless it gets better, their defense will NEVER win them a championship.... -Mark my words.

[sandman]

Sweet Baby Jesus, every last one of you guys would have easily bet your left testicle that the Spurs would have a hell of a lot more than three losses coming to the close of the first trimester of the season.

[quentin_compson]

I agree that they're not looking like a championship caliber team right now, but fortunately, the jury is still out on that one as they have more than enough time to get better defensively on a consistent basis - and start to play Splitter more.
Without Splitter playing starter minutes, I don't think the Spurs can get it done against teams with big and good FCs like the Lakers or the Celtics.

As far as the mental errors go, I think GSH is overestimating this one game against the Grizz. The Spurs have been playing a lot of games as of late, and over the course of 82 games, there will be times when you are just not as sharp mentally as you'd like to be.
Seeing that the last couple of games have been really close, I guess the Spurs are in for a loss in those kinds of games sooner rather than later, though.

[Rummpd]

Never take a snapshot of the NBA season and declare that what a team is, unless it was already definitively that beforehand (like the Clippers, Kings, Timberwolves, Warriors, Raptors, Bobcats, Wizards, Pistons, Cavaliers and Nets, who are all terrible teams . . . it doesn't matter if they're in the midst of a five game winning streak or they fluke out and win seven out of ten, etc.).

A team like the Spurs, we know they're very good. We don't quite know yet if they're great. Ultimately, we won't even begin to be able to answer that until we see multiple games against the other elite teams. But really, we won't know until the playoffs. The only time we've seen this group in the playoffs, they were swept in the 2nd round. Not exactly an extensive track record. We know they've improved since then, though.

The only two teams in the league that it can be said with certainty that they're championship caliber are the Lakers and the Celtics. Everyone else, we're just making educated guesses at this point.



????The Lakers can definetely say that but the Spurs can say anything the Celtics want and more as the true big three has 11 titles between them.

[rmt]

As far as the mental errors (in particular, the 8 sec violation), IMO Parker should get a pass. He played 41 mins. going at that speed and still played great. Wasn't he getting instructions for the next play from Pop?

I'd blame TD more. Wasn't Randolph inside the circle? TD should have taken it strong to the hole, shouldn't have passed off the ball to RJ, and the game shouldn't have gone to overtime.

Hill's injury and having to play IME contributed to the game being so close.

[DMC]

This is not a championship caliber team. Not now, anyway. They could develop into one. But with the stunts they have pulled the last several nights - the unforced errors in crunch time? Not a chance. And the most disturbing part is that a lot of the worst mental errors are being committed by their best players.

Tonight they had a 5 point lead, and possession of the ball, with about 1:10 left. Instead of running off some time and looking for a high percentage shot late in the clock, they tried to force an alley-oop on a damned fast break, and used up what? Four seconds? Stupid.

And can they really be so casual in overtime that they fail to bring the ball across mid-court within 8 seconds? Seriously? In overtime, with the game on the line? I know Parker is talented, and he was a beast - in the fourth quarter especially. But every team has talented players, who can dominate quarters. Championship teams have a sense of urgency. Runner-up teams look back on all the opportunities they missed throughout the season.

You could argue that the Spurs keep finding some way to come out on top. You could - but it would be a ridiculous argument. Only the fact that Memphis is a young, sub-.500 team allowed the Spurs to even get to overtime. The Spurs did everything they could to give the game away, and any better team would have said "Thank you" and gone home with a W. The previous two games required miracle plays by Manu. But when you look at how close Manu's last shot in Denver came to rolling out, or how close his last shot against Milwaukee came to being a travel, you have to recognize that the Spurs could just as easily be sitting on a 3 game losing streak. As good as Manu and Tony played at the end of those games, the W's are still a matter of luck.

Championships aren't won on luck. The Spurs have quite literally thrown away three games in a row with stupid, lackadaisical play down the stretch. The fact that the basketball gods chose to go dumpster diving and give the games back doesn't mean a thing. The basketball gods take the months of May and June off.

The Spurs have the talent, now, to win another championship. They have a better bench than they have had in years. And any of their Big 3 can rise to the level of hero on any given night. But even that won't be enough to overcome the kind of stupid unforced errors they have committed in the last few games. They began the season believing that they needed to get off to a fast start. Lately they seem to have gone back to the attitude that a loss or two, here and there, is no big deal. Losing a few games won't kill them - but the attitude will. There are no gimmes in the NBA, and every game along the way is important. Championship teams live and breath that.

Show me an example of a championship caliber team that has not won games because they recovered from unforced turnovers.

The very mark of a championship caliber team is one that can win even when they aren't playing well.

Kobe Bryant has made a career out of last second heroics in regular season against sub par teams. I would say the Lakers are a championship caliber team.

Every team makes runs and they give up runs. The difference in the game is the size and longevity of those runs. These are all NBA teams. Any of them can beat you on any given night.

If the record is an anomaly, why don't more teams have that anomaly? Why, in the history of this game, have better Spurs teams not have better starts? Why haven't the Nets had such a start?

These comments about sub par teams is amusing. The Spurs became a >500 team because they won, it wasn't bestowed upon them.

The Lakers play as if losing a game here and there doesn't matter.

No team since then has had the "win every game" mentality, luck and ability as the Jordan era Bulls. It's probably not going to happen.

I will take the Spurs with their problems and the best record in the league over the Spurs without those problems and middle of the pack. That's because they will be even better once they get in step, after the break. Middle of the pack Spurs without fixable issues are just a 2nd round exit waiting to happen again.

[bonnington]

I am Ok with them not beign a chapionship caliber team yet. They are playing good enough to have the best record, they have been lucky too, and that counts, and it's fucking december.

[SA210]

Their offense is sick, and will win them games... but unless it gets better, their defense will NEVER win them a championship.... -Mark my words.

[DieHardSpursFan1537]

It's December. If they win games, they win games. You think they are not championship, but yet they have the best record in the league. We'll see in a couple months...

[pjjrfan]

Until I see how they match up with Boston and the Lakers height and determination, I wll wait to call them a championship caliber team. But these victories are far form meaningless. Great teams build up during a season. This team has gained an identity on which it can hang its hat. Each of these victories has been a building block towards the goal of getting a championship. The players know thier roles, and are gaining the confidence of knowing that they can win any game against any opponent if they stick to the plan. This team works the whole game long, not always smart, but they keep grinding away, aren't discouraged by falling behind though they do seem to lose focus with big leads, much like the 2003 team. But I like what I'm seeing, though I would like to see Splitter assert himself more on the defensive end of the floor. And Blair use his strength more to keep his opponent out of the paint. I do agree that the allep oop was a bad decision and that the 8 sec turnover was a really careless mistake. But they still overcame this, last season's team would have lost all 3 games, this team refuses to just wilt and die, lessons that will serve them well come playoff time.

[RodNIc91]

Get over our 'luck' the past 3 games. Everybody, even the best players make mistakes. Its december and its not like our players commit this mistakes in may and june. Maybe just manu that time in 06 but still our roster is capable of great things. They know its not about regular season. Plus, your wrong on the luck part. They arent won on luck, true, but you always need to be lucky to win a championship. Werent the lakers lucky 2 years ago when they won to OKC, or when Yao got hurt cause Im sure that Rockets team would've beat them have he stayed healthy. Or werent they lucky when that Courtney Lee alley-opp was goaltended by Gasol in the finals.

Even our teams have been lucky when we have won championships. 07 when Dallas fell to Golden State, which was a hell of a Mavs team. Or 03 when Horry failed the 3 pointer in the WCSF. Besides I dont know what are you trying to prove. That this is not a championship caliber team? I think most of us here recognize that there is a long way before that, but you have to admit our team is arguably the best team right now.

[biskvito]

"splitt" some minutes between Bonner, McDyess, Blair and Spurs should be fine

[DMC]

The 8 sec turnover, the foot out of bounds... those I see as careless mistakes. The alley oop was a wide open transition play that showed great hustle and chemistry. They just missed it. I like that they brushed it off and went ahead with the game.

We all see every little mistake like this, but every game has these. Like Pop preaches, they have to play though them. Any decent team can win when they play their A game, but when a team can step up their game on a moments notice and get the win, that's a special team. It's almost never the same guy who does it. One night it's Manu, then it's Parker, then it's Duncan or maybe RJ or one of the bench players who steps up.

One thing is for sure, Blair is really having a hard time this year. I think the position of center isn't his best place to be, but until he can develop and hit that outside shot, he's going to be stuck in there with people much larger than he is. He needs to focus on rebounding and dishing the ball. He makes some shots but quite often he's looking up at a tower and trying to score over it. It gets ugly. I like the kid though, I hope he sticks with it and improves, otherwise I think he's going to be trade bait.

[JustinJDW]

So you're saying, because the errors that the Spurs made didn't cost them the game, then they must have won on luck?

Ok man, every team makes errors, in every game. The key is to minimize them and make your opponent make even more errors. If the Nuggets won that game, would anyone say that they won on luck, "because the errors that they made to dig themselves into a double-diggit deficet didn't cost them the win"?

A win is a win son, and besides, you don't think Pop is all over the team's ass right now, chewing them out over the mistakes they have made late in the games? The key is to get better as the seasons progressess.

[Kool Bob Love]

Posting to BUMP in the future. :nerd

[DPG21920]

Well, many of us, even during the winning streak and before the season even started said this team was not likely a contender as currently constructed. Having said that, the upside as is seems considerably higher than many could imagine.

I see what OP is saying with regards to the team making very uncharacteristic mental mistakes in big moments. It is never good to see that from a team like this. But all teams have those moments. If it continues to be a trend then it will be time to worry. As for now, they Spurs have had many more championship moments than bonehead moves.

[Do1mannn]

This is not a championship caliber team. Not now, anyway. They could develop into one. But with the stunts they have pulled the last several nights - the unforced errors in crunch time? Not a chance. And the most disturbing part is that a lot of the worst mental errors are being committed by their best players.

Tonight they had a 5 point lead, and possession of the ball, with about 1:10 left. Instead of running off some time and looking for a high percentage shot late in the clock, they tried to force an alley-oop on a damned fast break, and used up what? Four seconds? Stupid.

And can they really be so casual in overtime that they fail to bring the ball across mid-court within 8 seconds? Seriously? In overtime, with the game on the line? I know Parker is talented, and he was a beast - in the fourth quarter especially. But every team has talented players, who can dominate quarters. Championship teams have a sense of urgency. Runner-up teams look back on all the opportunities they missed throughout the season.

You could argue that the Spurs keep finding some way to come out on top. You could - but it would be a ridiculous argument. Only the fact that Memphis is a young, sub-.500 team allowed the Spurs to even get to overtime. The Spurs did everything they could to give the game away, and any better team would have said "Thank you" and gone home with a W. The previous two games required miracle plays by Manu. But when you look at how close Manu's last shot in Denver came to rolling out, or how close his last shot against Milwaukee came to being a travel, you have to recognize that the Spurs could just as easily be sitting on a 3 game losing streak. As good as Manu and Tony played at the end of those games, the W's are still a matter of luck.

Championships aren't won on luck. The Spurs have quite literally thrown away three games in a row with stupid, lackadaisical play down the stretch. The fact that the basketball gods chose to go dumpster diving and give the games back doesn't mean a thing. The basketball gods take the months of May and June off.

The Spurs have the talent, now, to win another championship. They have a better bench than they have had in years. And any of their Big 3 can rise to the level of hero on any given night. But even that won't be enough to overcome the kind of stupid unforced errors they have committed in the last few games. They began the season believing that they needed to get off to a fast start. Lately they seem to have gone back to the attitude that a loss or two, here and there, is no big deal. Losing a few games won't kill them - but the attitude will. There are no gimmes in the NBA, and every game along the way is important. Championship teams live and breath that.

Really!!!! .... What are you on Dope or Dog Food? The Spurs are balling...At the end of the day its about W's and L's and as far as I'm concerned we are 19 games above 500 The Best in The League and 1 Big away from wining it all again.... SO Stop posting these STUPID POST's!!!!!!!!!!

[ElNono]

We had mistakes like that during the regular season in previous championship teams too. Focus isn't going to be there all season long. I still think we have some weak links, and ultimately it's still a bit early to weed out completely the contenders from the pretenders. Obviously Phoenix and Orlando just made some major moves, and we'll see how they pan out. Teams like the Hornets started hot and crumbled in a matter of 5 weeks. I'm just gonna enjoy the ride and lets hope we're healthy and at our best in April.

[Horse]

You call that alley oop a mental error? It wasn't forced. It wasn't anything beyond the capabilities of what R.J. can do as a finisher around the rim. The ball slipped out of his hands and he knew he missed an easy one. It was written all over his reaction after the play.

And, if you think this isn't a championship-caliber team right now, I'd be interested to hear what you think about the Lakers..right now, or the Heat..right now, or Dallas.. right now.

I don't understand the point of such gloom and doom threads after a 23-3 start. People have generally been pretty good about not hyping up the start either, so I don't understand the point of this thread.
Amen brother we're 20 gms over .500 in December STFU!

[HarlemHeat37]

To be fair, even though I don't think the Spurs are currently a legit contender on the level of Boston or LA, if they can keep that #1 seed, it would obviously make a massive difference..not necessarily because the Spurs would play at home, but because the Mavs and Lakers would probably have a tough, long series in the 2nd round..

[BlairForceDejuan]

The ONLY thing keeping the Spurs from being a lock for Finals appearance, let alone #5, is interior defense. Dice and Duncan will hopefully be solid enough to do some damage, but I am not happy at all with Tiago's progression so far.

[Frankie23]

My only concern so far is that a team like Memphis or Minny raped us on rebounds. I think mental focus playing against bad teams is low (we lost against LAC), but still we were able to get the win, something that didn't happen in the last 2 years..
Also, being the best team in the league (record) motivates rivals to give something more against the Spurs. That "over energy" and our low energy, especially coming from a taugh b2b, is what made us win in OT last night..

[Anonymous Cowherd]

My only concern so far is that a team like Memphis or Minny raped us on rebounds. I think mental focus playing against bad teams is low (we lost against LAC), but still we were able to get the win, something that didn't happen in the last 2 years..
Also, being the best team in the league (record) motivates rivals to give something more against the Spurs. That "over energy" and our low energy, especially coming from a taugh b2b, is what made us win in OT last night..

Memphis are the best offensive rebounding team in the entire league.

Minnesota have the best rebounder in the entire league.


If there are teams likely to "rape us on rebounds", they'd be the among the top teams where that's OK because it will happen to everyone.

[Leetonidas]

Meh, the T-Mac facerape in 33 seconds of our team took place in the 2005 season...that turned out pretty good for us.

[Leetonidas]

No it wouldn't. You didn't even win a game at home in the last series you played. Stop fooling yourself, asshole.

You are a bad troll and you should feel bad about how bad you suck.

[Dex]

Parker has been lazy bringing the ball up in late game situations for a while now. They usually don't seem to pay as much attention in the waning minutes, but when he's running the clock, there are several times where he BARELY gets it over in the allotted eight seconds.

I'm pretty sure they let one slide last night before they actually called him on it. Hopefully that will be a bit of a wakeup call. :wakeup

[Cessation]

that was the 3rd game in 4 nights
lol he mad, 23-3

[LakaFan]

Spurs are not contenders


I agree

[angelbelow]

Lots of great points in this thread.

I feel like the mental errors made in the past few days are simply embarrassing. This team prides itself on being more well coached, and high B-all IQ and quality characters players. Even as fans, we pride ourselves in our coach, our caliber of players, the way we draft, how we always manage to compete while remaining (for the most part) under the luxury tax. So I think the string of mental errors are embarrassing, however, for the reason why we love the Spurs, I don't think its a big deal just yet. I think that they'll correct these errors as soon as next month.

I hate the argument "Were winning so /thread." Winning is great, obviously I'm enjoying the best record AND the best start in franchise history. However I don't want to settle. There are still areas of improvement. Do you guys think the guys are sitting back and partying cause they have the best record or do you think the coaching staff is working on improving the team?

The biggest one is rebounding/size and length. Ill use the T-Wolves game where we came back to win in overtime and last nights game as examples. In both games were outrebounded but still found a way to win. That's fine because we can out class those teams on the level of skill, talent, and coaching, but would this work against the elite? When given a team thats just as talented and just as well coached, can you afford to drop the rebounding category and expect to win? History says no.

I don't know if Blair, Splitter would necessary help in the rebounding area either. Blair has been shown to be out muscled by guys like Love and Randolph, so he probably wont be that effective against Gasol, Shaq, Perkins etc. Splitter has been a pretty poor rebounder so far. Bonner... well we know what were getting with him. Playing Bonner against the Lakers or Celtics won't work either. He won't spread the floor at all, especially in the playoffs. In the regular season they might leave him open, but with Odom (who is still haunting Rashard Lewis' game) playing the 4, theres a grim chance Bonner is going to do anything at all.

All in all, I do think were contenders, but I don't see us being the "favorites" to win it anytime soon.

[spurtech09]

aslong as the spurs keep winning things will be alright.....spurs are winning and thats what matters...

[sandman]

Duncan is posting career lows across the stat sheet, Tiago and Blair have been non-factors all season, GHill has been completely inconsistent, interior D is the worst it has been in years...

and yet, the team is 23-3.

It's not like they have been playing at the apex of their ability/potential all season to get where they are at right now. This is a team with holes and the need for players to step up and fill their roles.

and yet, the team is 23-3.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Are people forgetting that SPAM?

Come on guys!

[DMC]

Spurs are not contenders


I agree

You should be out getting ready for the annual "Boo Your Team off the Floor" Staples center Christmas Day tradition.

[DMC]

Lots of great points in this thread.

I feel like the mental errors made in the past few days are simply embarrassing. This team prides itself on being more well coached, and high B-all IQ and quality characters players. Even as fans, we pride ourselves in our coach, our caliber of players, the way we draft, how we always manage to compete while remaining (for the most part) under the luxury tax. So I think the string of mental errors are embarrassing, however, for the reason why we love the Spurs, I don't think its a big deal just yet. I think that they'll correct these errors as soon as next month.

I hate the argument "Were winning so /thread." Winning is great, obviously I'm enjoying the best record AND the best start in franchise history. However I don't want to settle. There are still areas of improvement. Do you guys think the guys are sitting back and partying cause they have the best record or do you think the coaching staff is working on improving the team?

The biggest one is rebounding/size and length. Ill use the T-Wolves game where we came back to win in overtime and last nights game as examples. In both games were outrebounded but still found a way to win. That's fine because we can out class those teams on the level of skill, talent, and coaching, but would this work against the elite? When given a team thats just as talented and just as well coached, can you afford to drop the rebounding category and expect to win? History says no.

I don't know if Blair, Splitter would necessary help in the rebounding area either. Blair has been shown to be out muscled by guys like Love and Randolph, so he probably wont be that effective against Gasol, Shaq, Perkins etc. Splitter has been a pretty poor rebounder so far. Bonner... well we know what were getting with him. Playing Bonner against the Lakers or Celtics won't work either. He won't spread the floor at all, especially in the playoffs. In the regular season they might leave him open, but with Odom (who is still haunting Rashard Lewis' game) playing the 4, theres a grim chance Bonner is going to do anything at all.

All in all, I do think were contenders, but I don't see us being the "favorites" to win it anytime soon.

Some of your points are valid, others are weak.

For instance: Everyone in the league is out muscled by Love and Randolf. Blair is a rebound machine compared to everyone but those guys. Also, who cares? Neither of these teams is a threat to the Spurs.

The only concern we should be discussing is facing the defending champs in the West, and against Dallas. We really don't have a problem with any other teams. Boston isn't going to keep us out of the Finals, nor will Miami. Dallas or the Lakers can. We should build to beat those two teams.

So it's pointless to even worry about whether Blair will be effective against players who aren't in our conference. If we can get to the Finals, we will probably win because that means we got over LA and Dallas. Anyone who can beat both of those teams in the playoffs probably wins it all. I say probably because the East has a couple of good teams and you never know what happens in a 7 games series or even leading up to it.

[angelbelow]

Some of your points are valid, others are weak.

For instance: Everyone in the league is out muscled by Love and Randolf. Blair is a rebound machine compared to everyone but those guys. Also, who cares? Neither of these teams is a threat to the Spurs.

The only concern we should be discussing is facing the defending champs in the West, and against Dallas. We really don't have a problem with any other teams. Boston isn't going to keep us out of the Finals, nor will Miami. Dallas or the Lakers can. We should build to beat those two teams.

Maybe I was unclear, but I realize that they aren't a threat, which is why I think we won because we were able to outclass those guys. My concern is that we have to be a great rebounding team against teams like the Lakers and Celtics, but to your point, more importantly the Lakers for now. Therefore, I don't think we can rebound poorly against the Lakers or Mavericks and have a good shot.

But like i said, I do think were contenders, I think were about even with the mavericks and but I'm not confident about our ability to match up with LA just yet.

[rmt]

So it's pointless to even worry about whether Blair will be effective against players who aren't in our conference. If we can get to the Finals, we will probably win because that means we got over LA and Dallas. Anyone who can beat both of those teams in the playoffs probably wins it all. I say probably because the East has a couple of good teams and you never know what happens in a 7 games series or even leading up to it.

Blair is too short to be effective against 2 seven foot post players like Gasol and Bynum. They'll just shoot over him.

If they get to the Finals and have to play both LA and DAL, they'll be dead tired and have nothing in the tank for BOS. I don't think they match up well with BOS at all who are so deep (especially in the front court). Against LA and DAL, at least they have 1 position that's a mismatch (Parker).

I'm hoping that DAL and LA have to battle it out before playing SA and that some other team (ORL or MIA) take out BOS before the Final. If LA makes it out of the West, I hope BOS is waiting for them.

[jjktkk]

Just a side note, per Twitter, ESPN's Ric Bucher noticed Bynum wincing as he was running up and down on the court. Bucher also noticed how Bynum was stretching out and testing his braced, right, knee/leg.

[mingus]

Some of your points are valid, others are weak.

For instance: Everyone in the league is out muscled by Love and Randolf. Blair is a rebound machine compared to everyone but those guys. Also, who cares? Neither of these teams is a threat to the Spurs.

The only concern we should be discussing is facing the defending champs in the West, and against Dallas. We really don't have a problem with any other teams. Boston isn't going to keep us out of the Finals, nor will Miami. Dallas or the Lakers can. We should build to beat those two teams.

So it's pointless to even worry about whether Blair will be effective against players who aren't in our conference. If we can get to the Finals, we will probably win because that means we got over LA and Dallas. Anyone who can beat both of those teams in the playoffs probably wins it all. I say probably because the East has a couple of good teams and you never know what happens in a 7 games series or even leading up to it.

lol pointing out that another poster's points are weak when your argument for why the Spurs dont have to worry about Boston is because if they beat LA they probably beat Boston. That's one of the shittiest points in this thread, which is basically a repository of shitty points.

[Agloco]

Tonight they had a 5 point lead, and possession of the ball, with about 1:10 left. Instead of running off some time and looking for a high percentage shot late in the clock, they tried to force an alley-oop on a damned fast break, and used up what? Four seconds? Stupid.


Is an alley-oop not a high percentage shot? Jefferson just fucked it up is all.

Agree with your other points though. Looked as if Jefferson was single handedly trying to give this game away.

[diego]

RJ's improvement is a big reason we are 23-3, despite all the problems others have mentioned. that's why its discouraging to hear he reverted last night (judging from comments, didnt see the game). Its more important for RJ to be clutch, and not just in shooting, than for him to maintain the improved 3pt %. Thats what makes or breaks him, bonner too for that matter. I've been able to watch several games lately and I think we need to integrate RJ more, to keep him engaged and take the load of the big 3. The big 3 + RJ and hill playing at a high level is enough to mitigate some of the shortcomings inside, but they need to be clutch and smart to make up for the lack of size.

[TD 21]

Blair is too short to be effective against 2 seven foot post players like Gasol and Bynum. They'll just shoot over him.

If they get to the Finals and have to play both LA and DAL, they'll be dead tired and have nothing in the tank for BOS. I don't think they match up well with BOS at all who are so deep (especially in the front court). Against LA and DAL, at least they have 1 position that's a mismatch (Parker).

I'm hoping that DAL and LA have to battle it out before playing SA and that some other team (ORL or MIA) take out BOS before the Final. If LA makes it out of the West, I hope BOS is waiting for them.

Gasol and Bynum are 7-foot +. I don't care what their listings say, watch them when they're being guarded by 6-11 and 7-0 guys and you'll notice a clear difference.

The big rotation/minute distribution against the Lakers has to be as follows to have a legitimate chance at beating them: Duncan 36-40 mpg, McDyess 28-32 mpg, Splitter 20-24 mpg, Bonner 8-12 mpg. It's not going to work any other way.

The Spurs undoing against the Lakers could easily be Pop's inability to nail down a rotation against them. Does he go Anderson over Neal for more size on the wing? Does he play small, get more shooting on the floor and play Jefferson some at four when Odom is in? Blair or Splitter?

He needs to have a rotation against the Lakers nailed down by game 1 if and when. They can't go into a series against them making it up as they go along. They need to hit the ground running, particularly if they have home court.

The Spurs aren't going to win the paint battle, but they need to limit the damage as best they can and the only way to do that is to lean heavily on Duncan, McDyess and Splitter.

Unfortunately, I'm thinking more and more that Pop is going to essentially concede the paint and flat out try to beat them from the outside. I suspect we'll see roughly 20 mpg out of Bonner, we'll see some Jefferson at four against Odom (they might even close this way if they can get away with it), which would allow them to play Ginobili, Hill and Parker simultaneously for stretches.

[Nathan Explosion]

The Spurs are definitely finding ways to play down to the level of their competition. They are making stupid mistakes that should be costing them games.

HOWEVER, the fact that they are committing mistakes that should be costing them games, and keep finding ways to win in spite of themselves does say something about the make up of this team.

Winning easy is one thing. Finding ways to win games you should be losing is another.

[Nathan Explosion]

The one thing that EVERYONE, posters, sports media, and the like have said is that with Bynum, the Lakers have a size advantage over everyone. But here's the one thing that they're not mentioning, how many playoff games has Bynum played?

The guy can't stay healthy, and while he can help the Lakers in the game, there's nothing he can do from the bench to help the team win. As a fan, I don't worry about the Lakers size advantage because even Phil is worried about his frontline.

Bynum is a non factor for the Lakers because he hasn't shown the ability to stay on the court for long periods of time, especially come playoff time.

[jjktkk]

Gasol and Bynum are 7-foot +. I don't care what their listings say, watch them when they're being guarded by 6-11 and 7-0 guys and you'll notice a clear difference.

The big rotation/minute distribution against the Lakers has to be as follows to have a legitimate chance at beating them: Duncan 36-40 mpg, McDyess 28-32 mpg, Splitter 20-24 mpg, Bonner 8-12 mpg. It's not going to work any other way.

The Spurs undoing against the Lakers could easily be Pop's inability to nail down a rotation against them. Does he go Anderson over Neal for more size on the wing? Does he play small, get more shooting on the floor and play Jefferson some at four when Odom is in? Blair or Splitter?

He needs to have a rotation against the Lakers nailed down by game 1 if and when. They can't go into a series against them making it up as they go along. They need to hit the ground running, particularly if they have home court.

The Spurs aren't going to win the paint battle, but they need to limit the damage as best they can and the only way to do that is to lean heavily on Duncan, McDyess and Splitter.

Unfortunately, I'm thinking more and more that Pop is going to essentially concede the paint and flat out try to beat them from the outside. I suspect we'll see roughly 20 mpg out of Bonner, we'll see some Jefferson at four against Odom (they might even close this way if they can get away with it), which would allow them to play Ginobili, Hill and Parker simultaneously for stretches.

Coming into the season, we knew the Lakers imposing frontline would have an advantage on every team except Boston. After seeing this current Spurs team their strength is the perimeter. Nothing will change that fact. We have to hope that our frontline competes and makes the Lakers's frontline work for everything they get. And if Bonner isn't on, I pray that Pop benches him. I'm pulling for Splitter to find a permament spot in the rotation prior to the playoffs.

[TVI]

Bynum is a non factor for the Lakers because he hasn't shown the ability to stay on the court for long periods of time, especially come playoff time.

This.

He should be named Andrew Ming.

[angelbelow]

Gasol and Bynum are 7-foot +. I don't care what their listings say, watch them when they're being guarded by 6-11 and 7-0 guys and you'll notice a clear difference.

The big rotation/minute distribution against the Lakers has to be as follows to have a legitimate chance at beating them: Duncan 36-40 mpg, McDyess 28-32 mpg, Splitter 20-24 mpg, Bonner 8-12 mpg. It's not going to work any other way.

The Spurs undoing against the Lakers could easily be Pop's inability to nail down a rotation against them. Does he go Anderson over Neal for more size on the wing? Does he play small, get more shooting on the floor and play Jefferson some at four when Odom is in? Blair or Splitter?

He needs to have a rotation against the Lakers nailed down by game 1 if and when. They can't go into a series against them making it up as they go along. They need to hit the ground running, particularly if they have home court.

The Spurs aren't going to win the paint battle, but they need to limit the damage as best they can and the only way to do that is to lean heavily on Duncan, McDyess and Splitter.

Unfortunately, I'm thinking more and more that Pop is going to essentially concede the paint and flat out try to beat them from the outside. I suspect we'll see roughly 20 mpg out of Bonner, we'll see some Jefferson at four against Odom (they might even close this way if they can get away with it), which would allow them to play Ginobili, Hill and Parker simultaneously for stretches.

It's funny you say this because I used to think the Suns were idiots for going small and using offense as their main weapon of choice. And now, we may be headed in that direction against the Lakers.

If Dice is up for it, and Splitter develops nicely the rest of the way, I think we've got a helluva a chance, but I guess we'll see.

[UnWantedTheory]

I think they are a legit contender because I only see two teams that I can understand being considered more likely to win the championship than them. If you're third most likely (definitely no worse than fourth), it's tough not to be a contender.

But we'll see after they play some games against the elite teams. I'd suggest not reading too much into this recent stretch. Sure, it's annoying and frustrating, but it's par for the course in an 82 game season.

[DMC]

Blair is too short to be effective against 2 seven foot post players like Gasol and Bynum. They'll just shoot over him.

If they get to the Finals and have to play both LA and DAL, they'll be dead tired and have nothing in the tank for BOS. I don't think they match up well with BOS at all who are so deep (especially in the front court). Against LA and DAL, at least they have 1 position that's a mismatch (Parker).

I'm hoping that DAL and LA have to battle it out before playing SA and that some other team (ORL or MIA) take out BOS before the Final. If LA makes it out of the West, I hope BOS is waiting for them.

I don't believe SA will be "dead tired". It's not like they are racing in the Tour de France. These guys have to play someone regardless. The Lakers went 7 a couple times last year it seems.

Are you saying that the Spurs cannot go to 7 twice and still compete in the Finals?

The logic escapes me. They play 82 games before the playoffs and never a back to back in the playoffs.

[DMC]

Wow some of you say some outlandish shit. There's no way Pop concedes anything, especially the Paint. Pop isn't going to play 7 second offense and forget about defense in the paint.

[DMC]

Maybe I was unclear, but I realize that they aren't a threat, which is why I think we won because we were able to outclass those guys. My concern is that we have to be a great rebounding team against teams like the Lakers and Celtics, but to your point, more importantly the Lakers for now. Therefore, I don't think we can rebound poorly against the Lakers or Mavericks and have a good shot.

But like i said, I do think were contenders, I think were about even with the mavericks and but I'm not confident about our ability to match up with LA just yet.

No, I understood you just fine, but like many others here you are just as focused on the East teams and teams that won't matter come playoff time as you are the Lakers and Mavs. There's no reason to build a team around beating an Eastern team. No franchise builds a team to beat the opposite conference. You have to get to the Finals, and in the West that means going through LA and Dallas. If you can do that, you take your chances with whomever gets there. You cannot structure for all possibilities.

Right now the Lakers are strong because of Gasol and Odom, not Bynum. Odom spreads the floor because he can shoot the outside shot and he can run the break. He's a good rebounder and finishes well. Gasol, we all know what he can do. Get them together and they score a ton and give up one shot only, if that. We haven't even covered Kobe, Artest or the other shooters on the team. Dallas isn't the Dallas of last year. With Tyson Chandler, they have a dimension in the paint they didn't previously have. Dirk can now hang back and feed off Chandler's paint presence, enjoying probably single coverage that he can easily shoot a high percentage over.

The Spurs need reliable bigs. You cannot depend on your scoring to get you there, you have to build for defense. You can force defense and crank it up, risking fouling of course but crank it up still. On offense, you just take what you are given and hope your shots start to fall. You cannot make that happen suddenly.

[Solid D]

Well, the Lakers lost to Denver in Denver after resting for a day. The Spurs won in Denver 2nd game of a b2b.

The Lakers lost to the Phoenix Suns at home on 2 days rest. The Spurs beat the Suns in PHX.

The Lakers lost to the Jazz in Salt Lake City. The Spurs beat the Jazz in Salt Lake City.

The Lakers lost to Indy and Memphis. The Spurs beat Indy and Memphis.

The Spurs win 3 games in 4 days but don't look real sharp so they aren't contenders?

I guess the Lakers aren't either, then.

[Whisky Dog]

These are humans like you and me playing this game, not robots. Some of you have unrealistic expectations. How can anyone complain about 23-3? They didn't win pretty enough for you? Get the fuck outta here.

[analyzed]

For me the million dollar question is , can Pop's new european run and gun style top the Lakers? The big question is with the Lakers twin tower combination of Bynum and Gasol, do we stick to our european system of using a four like Bonner to stretch their defense as a counter mismatch to their size by using speed and the perimeter or do we try to matchup with size by using Tiago and TD together ? The thing is Tiago and TD have not played one minute together and I really don't think the combination is part of Pop's equation at all. So question has to be asked, do we need Tiago and Duncan to play together to match-up against the Lakers Bynum and Gasol ?

The other thing is if you guys havent noticied that since Anderson has gone down , we have been using Manu and even Neal at back-up small forward, serously will this work against Artest and Barnes of the Lakers ? With how confident both Neal and Manu have been lauching threes without hesitation ala European international teams, this might actually work to counter the Lakers big front court.

At the end , I'm still not convinced we can beat LA with this system and makeup of our line-up, however as we play stronger teams, things might become more feasible. It's happened before where small ball ( Golden state vs Dallas, Pheonix etc) so maybe it is possible.

[angelbelow]

No, I understood you just fine, but like many others here you are just as focused on the East teams and teams that won't matter come playoff time as you are the Lakers and Mavs. There's no reason to build a team around beating an Eastern team. No franchise builds a team to beat the opposite conference. You have to get to the Finals, and in the West that means going through LA and Dallas. If you can do that, you take your chances with whomever gets there. You cannot structure for all possibilities.

Right now the Lakers are strong because of Gasol and Odom, not Bynum. Odom spreads the floor because he can shoot the outside shot and he can run the break. He's a good rebounder and finishes well. Gasol, we all know what he can do. Get them together and they score a ton and give up one shot only, if that. We haven't even covered Kobe, Artest or the other shooters on the team. Dallas isn't the Dallas of last year. With Tyson Chandler, they have a dimension in the paint they didn't previously have. Dirk can now hang back and feed off Chandler's paint presence, enjoying probably single coverage that he can easily shoot a high percentage over.

The Spurs need reliable bigs. You cannot depend on your scoring to get you there, you have to build for defense. You can force defense and crank it up, risking fouling of course but crank it up still. On offense, you just take what you are given and hope your shots start to fall. You cannot make that happen suddenly.

So what's your point? I said Lakers and the Celtics, Im not focusing on eastern conference teams, this thread is about whether or not our team can contend for a championship, but to isolate your argument, I didnt just list the Celtics as a problem.

I agree with you about Odom and Gasol, but my point is that both are excellent rebounders.

I agree with you about the Lakers, Gasol and Odom. I didn't cover Dallas, but I dont disagree with your points. After reading your post im not sure if you're quoting me to disagree or reinforce what im saying.

[UnWantedTheory]

No, I understood you just fine, but like many others here you are just as focused on the East teams and teams that won't matter come playoff time as you are the Lakers and Mavs. There's no reason to build a team around beating an Eastern team. No franchise builds a team to beat the opposite conference. You have to get to the Finals, and in the West that means going through LA and Dallas. If you can do that, you take your chances with whomever gets there. You cannot structure for all possibilities.

Right now the Lakers are strong because of Gasol and Odom, not Bynum. Odom spreads the floor because he can shoot the outside shot and he can run the break. He's a good rebounder and finishes well. Gasol, we all know what he can do. Get them together and they score a ton and give up one shot only, if that. We haven't even covered Kobe, Artest or the other shooters on the team. Dallas isn't the Dallas of last year. With Tyson Chandler, they have a dimension in the paint they didn't previously have. Dirk can now hang back and feed off Chandler's paint presence, enjoying probably single coverage that he can easily shoot a high percentage over.

The Spurs need reliable bigs. You cannot depend on your scoring to get you there, you have to build for defense. You can force defense and crank it up, risking fouling of course but crank it up still. On offense, you just take what you are given and hope your shots start to fall. You cannot make that happen suddenly.
I am actually pretty sure you didnt understand what angelbelow said. If so, you wouldnt have gone on about something that was not said and go on forever about things that were agreed upon. That logic escapes me. :flag:

[rmt]

I don't believe SA will be "dead tired". It's not like they are racing in the Tour de France. These guys have to play someone regardless. The Lakers went 7 a couple times last year it seems.

Are you saying that the Spurs cannot go to 7 twice and still compete in the Finals?

The logic escapes me. They play 82 games before the playoffs and never a back to back in the playoffs.

LA only played 7 games in the Finals, for which I would hope they would be playing all out especially since it's for the championship and they don't have any games after game 7 and will be off for the rest of the summer.

IMO, LA and DAL are the only 2 teams in the West who can beat SA in a 7 game series. The others don't have the experience or haven't played together long enough/integrating new players (UTA, PHX). DAL always plays SA in close battles. LA usually beats SA and Phil Jackson seems to out coach Pop.

Playing against DAL and LA, SA is going to rely heavily on the Big 3 (2 of which are old). The regular season (even though there are back to backs) does not involve playing an elite team over and over again which is draining. Instead the schedule has the bottom dwellers, the young, inexperienced teams, the good but not great teams, etc interspersed with games against the elite teams. Quinn, Udoka, Anderson and looks like Splitter probably will not be playing at all. Neal and Blair will get some minutes but not as much as the RS.

[MannyIsGod]

This thread title is pretty stupid considering the date on the calender. Might as well say the 2011-2012 Spurs are not a championship caliber team yet.

The real title should be that the Spurs are not perfect and each subsequent response should simply read "no shit".

[benefactor]

This thread title is pretty stupid considering the date on the calender. Might as well say the 2011-2012 Spurs are not a championship caliber team yet.

The real title should be that the Spurs are not perfect and each subsequent response should simply read "no shit".
:tu

[EricD]

Yeah the team with the best record in the NBA is not a championship contender.


Fucking morons GET A CLUE!

[EricD]

This thread title is pretty stupid considering the date on the calender. Might as well say the 2011-2012 Spurs are not a championship caliber team yet.

The real title should be that the Spurs are not perfect and each subsequent response should simply read "no shit".

Amen to that brotha!

:tu

[Jimcs50]

Kobe would disagree:

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=5921270

[polandprzem]

ohh jinx50

Hi !

[Jimcs50]

ohh jinx50

Hi !


:p:

it does not jinx if someone else says something and I agree, only when I make an original assumption or proclamation.

[rascal]

The spurs are playing themselves to a western conference finals loss to the Lakers as a best case scenario. I agree that the lakers or dallas are the biggest threats to San Antonio.

[rascal]

Spurs are one borderline star big short of being title contenders. The spurs have feasted on a weak schedule(winning many close games on last second shots or overtime against weaker opponents) and as the schedule gets tougher the record will normalize to the true strenght of the team.

[yavozerb]

Spurs are one borderline star big short of being title contenders. The spurs have feasted on a weak schedule and as the schedule gets tougher the record will normalize to the true strenght of the team.

The schedules for most of the elite NBA teams has been pretty soft. The NBA has gotten so top heavy that 2/3 of the league is considered soft now a days.

[rascal]

The schedules for most of the elite NBA teams has been pretty soft. The NBA has gotten so top heavy that 2/3 of the league is considered soft now a days.

Thats why an early start guady record is not indicative of a championship team. Its all about matchups with the top teams and the verdict is still out on the Spurs because they haven't faced many of the top teams yet( mainly the Lakers).

[easjer]

If we're going to discuss schedule as a legitimate issue, then shouldn't the fact they've only lost 3 games be worth noting?

That would indicate that even if they play down to their opponents, they are making hay while the sun shines. They'll need these 'easy' wins down the road when things get tough to help them stay on top.

I'm with others confused by this thread. NO team plays 100% well with no mental mistakes all throughout an extremely long season.

[yavozerb]

Thats why an early start guady record is not indicative of a championship team. Its all about matchups with the top teams and the verdict is still out on the Spurs because they haven't faced many of the top teams yet( mainly the Lakers).

Other than the Lakers, who would fall under your definition of a championshp team then? If you can win 22 out of 25 games and have the best record in the NBA, then you most certainly should be talked about as a contender. There is only about 6 teams in the NBA that have a chance of winning the championship, and yes, the spurs are one of them in my opinion.

[Rummpd]

Time will tell on the Spurs but one has to at least consider them a championship contender. Also who is to say a team like the Thunder will not knock off the Lakers this year and the Spurs may meet them or another team in the WCF.

Some interesting perpectives on how regular season and other things predict championship success:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NBA_teams_by_single_season_win_percentage

http://www.basketballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1075

Also, current odds by Vegas that are about right IMO (Spurs 8 to 1):

http://linesmaker.com/live_odds/nba_champion_odds.htm

[rascal]

Other than the Lakers, who would fall under your definition of a championshp team then? If you can win 22 out of 25 games and have the best record in the NBA, then you most certainly should be talked about as a contender. There is only about 6 teams in the NBA that have a chance of winning the championship, and yes, the spurs are one of them in my opinion.

They are only a contender if the Lakers get injuries to key players. There will be many disappointed people in here when the dust settles on the playoffs. The spurs will not get past a healthy Laker team in the playoffs. Enjoy the regular season wins.

They don't have the frontline to match up with LA. Its the same frontline as last year. Splitter is a non factor for this year and he is turning out to not be as good as expected. He is not even good enough to break into the rotation and get quality minutes and the spurs are going to need much more than even that.

[rascal]

Other than the Lakers, who would fall under your definition of a championshp team then? If you can win 22 out of 25 games and have the best record in the NBA, then you most certainly should be talked about as a contender. There is only about 6 teams in the NBA that have a chance of winning the championship, and yes, the spurs are one of them in my opinion.

Lakers are the only contender in the west barring injuries. No one is getting past them if they are healthy again this year. Next year they are bound for a fall unless they make a major player acquisistion. The lakers have one more run in them with the current core.


The east has Miami, Boston and Orlando as the contenders.

[Mel_13]

Enjoy the regular season wins.

You would do well to follow your own advice.

[DMC]

So what's your point? I said Lakers and the Celtics, Im not focusing on eastern conference teams, this thread is about whether or not our team can contend for a championship, but to isolate your argument, I didnt just list the Celtics as a problem.

I agree with you about Odom and Gasol, but my point is that both are excellent rebounders.

I agree with you about the Lakers, Gasol and Odom. I didn't cover Dallas, but I dont disagree with your points. After reading your post im not sure if you're quoting me to disagree or reinforce what im saying.
Last time I checked, the Celtics were an Eastern Conference team. Did that change?

You are talking about probably the two best teams in the league, not the two best teams in the conference. We need to get through Dallas and LA.

To be a championship caliber team, it doesn't mean that you will beat whomever the East puts out. It means that you have what it takes to get there. The Celtics were a championship caliber team last year, but they lost. They could have probably won if they had Perkins in that last game. Orlando was a championship caliber team the year prior, but they too lost. Neither team had the ability at that time to beat LA. If we can beat LA and make it to the Finals, we should be able to beat whomever the East lobs at us. That's my point.

You said Blair gets out-muscled by Randolf and Love. My point: So? Who doesn't? We aren't facing either of these in the playoffs or the Finals if we get there. It would be great to be able to crush these guys, but man there are some dudes out there that are just freaks and you just play around them.

The Spurs don't need to be able to dominate all facets of the game in order to win a ring. We have never dominated all facets of the game. We just do what we do better than they do or for a longer time. The difference maker for the Spurs has almost always been composure in chaotic situations, when the opponent becomes agitated and crazy shit happens. That seems to happen in every playoff series, and invariably it's the Spurs who come out ahead because they remained poised.

[DMC]

If the Spurs make it to the WCF this year, it will be one hell of a shock to the system of all these armchair pundits who said the Spurs are done. If we win it all? *crickets*

[angelbelow]

Last time I checked, the Celtics were an Eastern Conference team. Did that change?

You are talking about probably the two best teams in the league, not the two best teams in the conference. We need to get through Dallas and LA.

What the hell is the matter with you? How many times have I stated in this thread that I agree with you about Dallas and LA, those teams will be the immediate concerns. Yet you continue to claim that I put an emphasis on Eastern conference teams.



To be a championship caliber team, it doesn't mean that you will beat whomever the East puts out. It means that you have what it takes to get there. The Celtics were a championship caliber team last year, but they lost. They could have probably won if they had Perkins in that last game. Orlando was a championship caliber team the year prior, but they too lost. Neither team had the ability at that time to beat LA. If we can beat LA and make it to the Finals, we should be able to beat whomever the East lobs at us. That's my point.

Technically you can be a theoretical champion caliber team without beating the best teams in the East. But to be the actual champion, however, you have to beat the ECF. You speak as if whoever comes out of the east is a sure fire loss, is that what you believe? Is that why you are solely worried about the Lakers and Mavs... because whoever comes out of the East is an auto-win?


You said Blair gets out-muscled by Randolf and Love. My point: So? Who doesn't? We aren't facing either of these in the playoffs or the Finals if we get there. It would be great to be able to crush these guys, but man there are some dudes out there that are just freaks and you just play around them.

My point isnt that we should be worried about Randolph and Love in the playoffs, my points is that we face elite rebounding teams in the Lakers and Mavs (West) and Celtics in the east. This is where I do think you did misunderstand what I as trying to say.


The Spurs don't need to be able to dominate all facets of the game in order to win a ring. We have never dominated all facets of the game. We just do what we do better than they do or for a longer time. The difference maker for the Spurs has almost always been composure in chaotic situations, when the opponent becomes agitated and crazy shit happens. That seems to happen in every playoff series, and invariably it's the Spurs who come out ahead because they remained poised.

Championship teams are built on more than poised. While poise is probably required, they're built more so on defense. This means we need to be above average in the areas such as team defense, perimeter defense, interior defense, defensive rebounding, etc. Almost every team that's ever won the coveted NBA title have been above average to great defensive teams.

[EricB]

You would do well to follow your own advice.

He's been the most miserable son of a bitch for years.

Don't count on it.

[G-Dawgg]

Yeah the team with the best record in the NBA is not a championship contender.


Fucking morons GET A CLUE!

Oh they're definately contenders, but they don't have what it takes defensively to actually WIN the championship....

..and we all know that offense wins games & defense wins championships... 'nuff said.

[IknowU]

Is it really necessary to play defense at this time of the season???? Whats the rush?

We are cruising and scrapping through the season so far by just having a good offense.

imo Pop has a defense system setup, but he wont unleash it until after All Star break leading into the playoffs.

The defense system most likely includes Tiago and his role to the team. But most importantly we are trying to get through the regular season with using minimal resources and effort.

[GSH]

This thread title is pretty stupid considering the date on the calender. Might as well say the 2011-2012 Spurs are not a championship caliber team yet.

The real title should be that the Spurs are not perfect and each subsequent response should simply read "no shit".


You made me laugh, Manny.

How about this? I think the Spurs are incredibly talented, and have the best bench they have had in years. Potentially ever, if Anderson comes back 100% and Splitter can work his way into the rotation.

On top of that, they are playing at a very high level, for this early in the season. If they gel like they usually do duing the Rodeo road trip, they are going to be scary good.

But even with all of that, they aren't going to win it all by playing stupid. Especially in the last 5-6 minutes of ball games. The team that plays toughest down the stretch usually wins in the post-season. Like I said before, 3 minutes of stupidity can ruin 45 minutes of brilliant ball.

Am I okay so far?

I understand that nobody is perfect, and it's early in the season. I guess what I'm saying is that the guys who have been here the longest should be the leaders when it comes to disciplined play down the stretch. Not perfect - but disciplined. The Spurs have done some really stupid things at the end of about 4 games in a row. Not just bad plays. Riciculously, egregiously sloppy things. And most of them were from our experienced, star players. You may disagree, but I think that's a problem.

Those guys have been around too long to be able to blame it on being early in the season. Bad timing on the pick and roll, missed defensive rotations - those things you expect to get better as the season wears on. But failing to get the ball across mid-court, in overtime? Failing to call that time out in Denver? That kind of breakdown in discipline can turn a 7-game series.

It's just my amateur opinion, but I don't think you can wait until late in the season to set the tone for those kinds of things. The older guys have to set the bar high for the younger ones.

[rasho8]

All you haters make me laugh. Shut the fuck up and wait.

[Nick Manning]

OP is right, tbh.

[easjer]

I understand that nobody is perfect, and it's early in the season. I guess what I'm saying is that the guys who have been here the longest should be the leaders when it comes to disciplined play down the stretch. Not perfect - but disciplined. The Spurs have done some really stupid things at the end of about 4 games in a row. Not just bad plays. Riciculously, egregiously sloppy things. And most of them were from our experienced, star players. You may disagree, but I think that's a problem.

Those guys have been around too long to be able to blame it on being early in the season. Bad timing on the pick and roll, missed defensive rotations - those things you expect to get better as the season wears on. But failing to get the ball across mid-court, in overtime? Failing to call that time out in Denver? That kind of breakdown in discipline can turn a 7-game series.

It's just my amateur opinion, but I don't think you can wait until late in the season to set the tone for those kinds of things. The older guys have to set the bar high for the younger ones.

I guess I'm confused about where the Spurs are unaware of the mental lapses and not addressing them? It seems from what I've read that they are aware that they aren't perfect and have stuff to fix.

I really just don't get this thread.

I expect these things will be cleaned up when they cost them games. And if they aren't, well, then their record was a fluke and we can castigate them appropriately for it.

I just keep reading and shrugging. Like, ok. Yeah. And?

[LongtimeSpursFan]

Other than the Lakers, who would fall under your definition of a championshp team then? If you can win 22 out of 25 games and have the best record in the NBA, then you most certainly should be talked about as a contender. There is only about 6 teams in the NBA that have a chance of winning the championship, and yes, the spurs are one of them in my opinion.

:toast

Teams that are not championship contenders do not go on multiple 9+ game winning streaks or have a record of 23-3 after only 26 games. Which by the way is almost one-third of the season.

I was always taught that a good sample is about 40. So after 40 games if they have one of the top 4 or 5 records in the league that means that statistically speaking they are one of the better teams. It doesnt matter who they played, championship teams find ways to win. Teams that are not good or championship level find ways to lose.

[GSH]

I caught a lot of shit for this thread early in the season. All I said was that no matter how much talent or heart the team has, they aren't going to be able to beat the better teams in the league when their best, most experienced players do ridiculously stupid things in crunch time. They got by with it a bunch of times through this season, and came out with W's anyway. But you can't count on riding the luck train all the way through the playoffs.

The other thing I said was that they couldn't wait until the end of the season to straighten that out. You feel me now?






Teams that are not good or championship level find ways to lose.



Back atcha.


Don't give me any shit about how the Spurs didn't have Duncan. I know that having Duncan would have helped - we all know that. But that's not the reason they lost to Portland. (Or Denver, for that matter.) They lost because their floor leaders - their guys with championship experience - got stupid and careless down the stretch. And so did their coach.

Put Duncan in the lineup, but against any of the really elite teams that we will be facing in the post season. Nothing changes. Playoff games are going to be hard-fought. And you can't win those series when you totally give away any games in the last few minutes.

Championship teams have an attitude - an edge. They put their foot on the throat of a lesser opponent, and they execute in crunch time. Right now, this team doesn't show me that. And it's gotten pretty damned late in the season to develop it.

[tuncaboylu]

Championship caliber teams doesn't blow, championship cliaber teams doesn't lose this kind of games. Bla bla bla.

Boston lost to Charlotte at home while leading 13 at the beginning of 4th quarter. There is no championship caliber team in the league.

[LakerHater]

Portland is, didnt you see the streamers fallin after they beat the Spurs!??

[DesignatedT]

:lmao bumping this now.

We lost 2 games in a row on the road against 2 of the hottest teams in the NBA without our team captain. Declare the season over. Might as well forfeit

[spurtech09]

of course not duncan isn't in the line-up.....with timmy d no matter what are nba championship material.....just wait intill they win the nba championship 2011.....

[Amuseddaysleeper]

We aren't getting past the Lakers, sorry guys.

[rmt]

I can live with having the best the Spurs have (Manu, TP) mess up. What I can't live with is not putting the best out there - having Novak inbound the ball, playing Blair/Bonner instead of Splitter/Dice.

I guess even the best of them are human - Pop included. Too bad his love for Bonner's been going on nearly 3 years. It was acceptable when there was no other alternative but now there is and he's kept him planted on the bench. I think that with Splitter integrated this team is as close to championship caliber as it could be without a perimeter defender and would have a shot at beating LA but Pop's stubbornness and Blair/Bonner are not going to cut it.

[chazley]

I caught a lot of shit for this thread early in the season. All I said was that no matter how much talent or heart the team has, they aren't going to be able to beat the better teams in the league when their best, most experienced players do ridiculously stupid things in crunch time. They got by with it a bunch of times through this season, and came out with W's anyway. But you can't count on riding the luck train all the way through the playoffs.

The other thing I said was that they couldn't wait until the end of the season to straighten that out. You feel me now?






Back atcha.


Don't give me any shit about how the Spurs didn't have Duncan. I know that having Duncan would have helped - we all know that. But that's not the reason they lost to Portland. (Or Denver, for that matter.) They lost because their floor leaders - their guys with championship experience - got stupid and careless down the stretch. And so did their coach.

Put Duncan in the lineup, but against any of the really elite teams that we will be facing in the post season. Nothing changes. Playoff games are going to be hard-fought. And you can't win those series when you totally give away any games in the last few minutes.

Championship teams have an attitude - an edge. They put their foot on the throat of a lesser opponent, and they execute in crunch time. Right now, this team doesn't show me that. And it's gotten pretty damned late in the season to develop it.

Cliffs: Duncan doesn't make a difference if he had played.

Ok. Thanks for the top notch analysis.

[urunobili]

this would have been bumpable if we would have lost both with TD... that said... I feel you brother...

[Ginobili2Duncan]

We aren't getting past the Lakers, sorry guys.



Come on, you'e better than this.

[mingus]

my feelings about this team before the season started were this, and they've for the most part stayed the same: the Spurs can win it all, they've got about 15% chance of beating the Lakers. assumming that Splitter gets pt and has a significant role, my feelings were and remain that Duncan will have to turn back the clock--maybe not all the way, but close to it--in order for the Spurs to beat LA. he would, in other words, have to make Gasol his bitch for an entire series. defensively, he would have to make him struggle, and offensively he'd have to average at least 18 ppg. i think that it is fairly possible, not probable. but to say that the Spurs won't be able to win a championship is just moronic.

[Capt Bringdown]

We aren't getting past the Lakers, sorry guys.

We might win one or two games. The Lakers have kicked it to another level since the all-star game, and it ain't even the playoffs yet. The emergence of a healthy Bynum makes them even better than last year's squad. That will make them champions again.

Spurs are rolling with essentially the same team that got curb-stomped by Phoenix last year. A healthy big 3 has produced the best regular-season record. But like recent regular season warriors such as Cleveland, Dallas & Phoenix, the Spurs will soon discover that gimmicks don't get you far in the playoffs.

Defense and rebounding win rings, not small ball & 3 point shooting. We had a real chance to improve in these depts, and to provide Duncan with some help this year, but it didn't happen.

[Wilford Brimley]

We might win one or two games. The Lakers have kicked it to another level since the all-star game, and it ain't even the playoffs yet. The emergence of a healthy Bynum makes them even better than last year's squad. That will make them champions again.

Spurs are rolling with essentially the same team that got curb-stomped by Phoenix last year. A healthy big 3 has produced the best regular-season record. But like recent regular season warriors such as Cleveland, Dallas & Phoenix, the Spurs will soon discover that gimmicks don't get you far in the playoffs.

Defense and rebounding win rings, not small ball & 3 point shooting. We had a real chance to improve in these depts, and to provide Duncan with some help this year, but it didn't happen.

jeez man, you definitely live up to your username. This Spurs team is too damn good to be considered 5 or 6 game fodder against LA, especially with HCA.

[Capt Bringdown]

This Spurs team is too damn good to be considered 5 or 6 game fodder against LA, especially with HCA.

Spurs are damn good, but the Lakers are way better. It's a fact.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Spurs are damn good, but the Lakers are way better. It's a fact.

It'll be the closest series these teams have had since, well I guess 2008. But I think the length of the Lakers and the fact that PJ owns Pop will be the end of it.

The Lakers will have 3 of the top 4 bigs in the series.

[ohmwrecker]

The Lakers are better than everybody right now, but they aren't unbeatable. Momentum is a huge factor in the playoffs and even a good, or seemingly, superior team can fall victim to a unfavorable momentum swing. The Spurs are good enough to get to the WCFs and you can safely assume that they are playing good basketball if they get there. With HCA, a chance to get a 2 game lead and catch a fortunate wave . . . I still like the odds.

If Duncan is coming back sooner than expected and enough time to gear up and key in on the defects, the Spurs have the personnel to figure it out and focus on maintaining a high level of playing for every minute and every possession that every team has to do to succeed in the post season.

The Spurs also have a good chance at drawing more favorable match ups in the first two rounds, while the Lakers will more than likely, have a tougher path to the WCFs. Worry about if and when it happens. Reality without retrospect is assuredly distorted.

[IronMexican]

it's the regular season

talk to me in March

for Pop, this is the pre-season

-Mars

[TE]

The Lakers are better than everybody right now, but they aren't unbeatable. Momentum is a huge factor in the playoffs and even a good, or seemingly, superior team can fall victim to a unfavorable momentum swing. The Spurs are good enough to get to the WCFs and you can safely assume that they are playing good basketball if they get there. With HCA, a chance to get a 2 game lead and catch a fortunate wave . . . I still like the odds.

If Duncan is coming back sooner than expected and enough time to gear up and key in on the defects, the Spurs have the personnel to figure it out and focus on maintaining a high level of playing for every minute and every possession that every team has to do to succeed in the post season.

The Spurs also have a good chance at drawing more favorable match ups in the first two rounds, while the Lakers will more than likely, have a tougher path to the WCFs. Worry about if and when it happens. Reality without retrospect is assuredly distorted.

Nice post.

[DesignatedT]

my feelings about this team before the season started were this, and they've for the most part stayed the same: the Spurs can win it all, they've got about 15% chance of beating the Lakers. assumming that Splitter gets pt and has a significant role, my feelings were and remain that Duncan will have to turn back the clock--maybe not all the way, but close to it--in order for the Spurs to beat LA. he would, in other words, have to make Gasol his bitch for an entire series. defensively, he would have to make him struggle, and offensively he'd have to average at least 18 ppg. i think that it is fairly possible, not probable. but to say that the Spurs won't be able to win a championship is just moronic.

Seems fair. People declaring the season over because "we won't get past the Lakers" obviously haven't watched a lot of basketball either. Assuming we get the 1, there is a lot of basketball to be played before we even meet that team like injuries, momentum swings. (assuming both of us make it there) and as much as every spur fan envies the Lakers, Dallas could very well turn it on at the right time and get some luck along the way.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Seems fair. People declaring the season over because "we won't get past the Lakers" obviously haven't watched a lot of basketball either. Assuming we get the 1, there is a lot of basketball to be played before we even meet that team like injuries, momentum swings. (assuming both of us make it there) and as much as every spur fan envies the Lakers, Dallas could very well turn it on at the right time and get some luck along the way.

That's what I'm hoping for, tbh.

[chazley]

Spurs fans have zero faith, it's too funny.

Lakers fans are just underestimating us. When they go to 7 games against Portland and Dallas and we're sitting pretty with a 5 game and 6 game series against the Grizz and Thunder, with HCA, it won't be as easy as all you guys think.

My money is still on the Spurs to beat the Lakers.

2-1.

[++SaiNt TiAg0++]

i feel better going into the playoffs now , than when duncan was healthy all im saying is my moneys on the spurs. wheres the prediction thread? lakers are doing great but theyre not going to be consistent in the playoffs they havent been all year these things just dont happen, im sorry but the lakers always have really good reg. seasons before dominating in the playoffs. those problems will come back to haunt them in the playoffs, watch..

[roycrikside]

People need to stop acting like the Lakers are invincible. They're the best team right now, but they can be had. There is no such thing as a perfect team.

The Lakers, Celtics and to a lesser degree Mavs have size and play fundamental basketball well, but aren't too speedy or athletic. The Bulls, Thunder and to a lesser degree Heat have incredible athletes, but don't always play very smart or sound offensively.

The Lakers are the best team in the veteran group (where the Spurs also belong) and the Bulls are the best team in the athlete group.

If the Spurs get home court advantage -- they might have to go 7-3 to get it -- they give themselves a fighter's chance. The Lakers don't have a deep enough team to score in the 100s on them consistently. They didn't get close in either of the first two meetings and even in the third game when they got off to such a great start in the first half, they did so by hitting a hell of a lot of contested long twos, contested threes, you name it. They shot the shots the Spurs wanted them to shoot and just made everything, and they still cooled off in the second half and didn't get to a 100.

Kobe struggles against the Spurs, barely scoring 1 point per FGA if he's lucky. And the Spurs are 2-1 against them despite Duncan not doing anything. If Tim plays up to his regular season averages, like 13 and 10 and we get some PT from Tiago and some solid games from Manu and Tony, we can beat those guys.

I think you guys are overreacting to the last two losses. We outplayed Portland, with both Roy and Camby in the lineup, at home, and without Tim. And we outplayed them badly. The offense was great, the defense was great, we did everything well except for turnovers and the last 30 seconds. If we have 15 turnovers in that game instead of 19, we win easy.

The Spurs are still a great team when they try hard and next to unbeatable at home. We just need to find a way to get 7 of these next 8 games (5 at home) and get that HCA.

[Man In Black]

Some people make it seem like last year's LAL won the title in a dominating fashion when that simply was not the case. It's not like they went 16-0 in the playoffs. They've been pushed, possibly benefited from some calls or no calls(depending upon how you look at it), and have gotten, what some have termed...lucky breaks.

It just takes a TEAM to understand what needs to be done. I'm going in with the confidence that I know the Spurs' Big 3 knows what it takes to win, but with the uncertainty that the rest of the team have to take a huge leap of faith and entrust that Pop knows what he's talking about. I think they have the physical tools, albeit they still don't have a 6'9 to 7 ft tall 230 lb F-C who could jump out of the gym and challenge the more athletic front lines like OKC and Portland but experience still means a whole lot. It work for Butler in the NCAA tourney, it could work for San Antonio too.

[timtonymanu]

Some people make it seem like last year's LAL won the title in a dominating fashion when that simply was not the case. It's not like they went 16-0 in the playoffs. They've been pushed, possibly benefited from some calls or no calls(depending upon how you look at it), and have gotten, what some have termed...lucky breaks.

It just takes a TEAM to understand what needs to be done. I'm going in with the confidence that I know the Spurs' Big 3 knows what it takes to win, but with the uncertainty that the rest of the team have to take a huge leap of faith and entrust that Pop knows what he's talking about. I think they have the physical tools, albeit they still don't have a 6'9 to 7 ft tall 230 lb F-C who could jump out of the gym and challenge the more athletic front lines like OKC and Portland but experience still means a whole lot. It work for Butler in the NCAA tourney, it could work for San Antonio too.

I actually don't think the Lakers are unbeatable. I know Tim, Tony, Manu, and McDyess will be huge in the playoffs. Neal may be a force too. However, RJ/Hill/Blair/Bonner is what worries me. I just get the feeling that a few of them will be nonfactors. IMO, if they show up, I believe this Spurs team will beat LA. At this point, the Spurs can only beat themselves.

Remember when people said the Spurs weren't gonna get out of the first round last year and they went into the playoffs a whole different team and knocked off the 2nd seed. Here's to hoping they take that extra gear again. :toast

[DeadlyDynasty]

Spurs fans have zero faith, it's too funny.

Lakers fans are just underestimating us. When they go to 7 games against Portland and Dallas and we're sitting pretty with a 5 game and 6 game series against the Grizz and Thunder, with HCA, it won't be as easy as all you guys think.

My money is still on the Spurs to beat the Lakers.

2-1.

1) You don't know that you'll face Memphis in the first round, but I sure as hell hope so, cause they offer a much greater challenge than the West-less Hornets or a punchless Rockets/Suns/Jazz team.

2) What makes you think LA will play both Dallas AND Portland? Look at the schedule, dumbshit. Portland isn't dropping below the 6th seed (Hornets will not gain any ground w/o West and the Grizzlies would have to make up 3 games with only 9 to play).
Furthermore, the Lakers and Mavs both have 10 games left, but the Lakers are ahead by one, have a game left against Dallas (in LA), and the Mavs just started a six-game roadie. LA has only 4 road games left--only one of which is against a +.500 team (Portland). Dallas is pretty much a lock for 3rd seed.

3) If the current standings hold up, you'd have to be on crack to think that you would get through Memphis and OKC with only 3 combined losses. In fact I would be willing to bet any amount of money on that not happening.


Suns-ball will only take you so far in the playoffs. This is a documented fact.

[GSH]

You guys can keep arguing with me about this, but you're wrong. The Spurs had this game (Houston) won, with a minute left in regulation. They got a stop, and Manu just fell asleep while making a pass to Tony, and the Rockets wind up with a layup for a give-away 2 points. The Spurs did everything they needed to do to win the game, and then gave it away by being careless and stupid. Championship teams just don't do that.
Then in overtime, when there was still a chance to at least go to double overtime, they stand around and don't foul and burn 13 seconds off the clock?

I'm sorry, but when your veteran leaders do things that stupid at the most critical points of a game, you're not a championship caliber team - no matter how much talent or experience you have. The Spurs have been doing this all season. They managed to win some of those games even though they did everything possible to give them away. But that has to catch up with you sooner or later.