So how much does your family owe?

[CosmicCowboy]

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/111th-congress-added-more-debt-first-100

The federal government has accumulated more new debt--$3.22 trillion ($3,220,103,625,307.29)—during the tenure of the 111th Congress than it did during the first 100 Congresses combined, according to official debt figures published by the U.S. Treasury.
That equals $10,429.64 in new debt for each and every one of the 308,745,538 people counted in the United States by the 2010 Census.
The total national debt of $13,858,529,371,601.09 (or $13.859 trillion), as recorded by the U.S. Treasury at the close of business on Dec. 22, now equals $44,886.57 for every man, woman and child in the United States.

(more details at link)

Just my immediate family (myself, wife, two kids, two grandkids) now owes $269,319. Damn.

[Duff McCartney]

:sleep

[CosmicCowboy]

:sleep

:lmao

You really don't get it, do you?

The stupid ignorant masses like Duff McCartney are gonna bear the brunt of the fallout.

My kids will be fine.

[Duff McCartney]

What fallout? Hasn't there always been a national debt in this country? And when has any nation ever attempted to call in that debt or they would attack. Answer...none.

The fact that the United States spends the most on its military just put people at ease. I don't see you complaining about the generation prior that was racking up debt as well.

Being probably the world power has its advantages, and one of those advantages is that no one threatens the United States with debt.

How will your kids be fine?

[CosmicCowboy]

What fallout? Hasn't there always been a national debt in this country? And when has any nation ever attempted to call in that debt or they would attack. Answer...none.

The fact that the United States spends the most on its military just put people at ease. I don't see you complaining about the generation prior that was racking up debt as well.

Being probably the world power has its advantages, and one of those advantages is that no one threatens the United States with debt.

How will your kids be fine?

Well, for one thing, unlike you they both have a good work ethic and marketable skills...:lol

[George Gervin's Afro]

What fallout? Hasn't there always been a national debt in this country? And when has any nation ever attempted to call in that debt or they would attack. Answer...none.

The fact that the United States spends the most on its military just put people at ease. I don't see you complaining about the generation prior that was racking up debt as well.

Being probably the world power has its advantages, and one of those advantages is that no one threatens the United States with debt.

How will your kids be fine?

he's delusional..

[George Gervin's Afro]

:lmao

You really don't get it, do you?

The stupid ignorant masses like Duff McCartney are gonna bear the brunt of the fallout.

My kids will be fine.

If things are as bad as you say they are your kids are f*cked as well...

[CosmicCowboy]

he's delusional..

Keep fucking off, sleeping late, and playing xbox. Everything will be fine.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Keep fucking off, sleeping late, and playing xbox. Everything will be fine.

No I'm laying awake at night sweating the national debt and how it is going to affect my family..oh wait it won't affect my family because my offspring are ugly but smart..

sincerely,

the paranoid cosmic cowboy

[CosmicCowboy]

No I'm laying awake at night sweating the national debt and how it is going to affect my family..oh wait it won't affect my family because my offspring are ugly but smart..

sincerely,

the paranoid cosmic cowboy

If politics and current events don't affect you, then why are you wasting your time in a political forum?

[Drachen]

If politics and current events don't affect you, then why are you wasting your time in a political forum?

While I agree that the national debt is as much a worry now as it has been at least the last 15 years years (at 16 I worried about the national and followed the 96 elections pretty closely), I do have to disagree that your kids will be fine (unless they have dual citizenship). If the country does go into a debt induced downward spiral, then it won't matter who you are, you will be adversely affected in a very very bad way.

[CosmicCowboy]

While I agree that the national debt is as much a worry now as it has been at least the last 15 years years (at 16 I worried about the national and followed the 96 elections pretty closely), I do have to disagree that your kids will be fine (unless they have dual citizenship). If the country does go into a debt induced downward spiral, then it won't matter who you are, you will be adversely affected in a very very bad way.

I was being facetious to a certain extent because of the attacks from the peanut gallery. I've lived through modest inflation and 20%+ interest rates and it's not pretty. I know it will affect everyone.

[ElNono]

Are those dollar amounts adjusted for inflation? Todays trillions are yesterday's billions.

[Drachen]

I was being facetious to a certain extent because of the attacks from the peanut gallery. I've lived through modest inflation and 20%+ interest rates and it's not pretty. I know it will affect everyone.

man, 20% inflation, crazy. I remember my parents telling me in 1997 that they were paying off our old house (we moved from there in 1994, but still owned it). I asked them where they got all of this money from, and they told me they had opened a 15 year cd for just over 10k in 1982. I am sure you can guess the rest.

[Duff McCartney]

If politics and current events don't affect you, then why are you wasting your time in a political forum?

There's a difference between having it affect you, and bring up posts like this that mean absolutely nothing. Yeah the debt is rising...and? The debt of this country has been rising since it was first founded..maybe even more so.

It would have been nice to hear your reservations about spending during the invasion of Iraq and advocating for us to leave both Iraq and Afghanistan and cut the spending there. But you weren't.

[CosmicCowboy]

There's a difference between having it affect you, and bring up posts like this that mean absolutely nothing. Yeah the debt is rising...and? The debt of this country has been rising since it was first founded..maybe even more so.

It would have been nice to hear your reservations about spending during the invasion of Iraq and advocating for us to leave both Iraq and Afghanistan and cut the spending there. But you weren't.

I have said repeatedly in this forum we should get the fuck out of Iraq and Afghanistan.

Are you REALLY that dense?

[nkdlunch]

If things are as bad as you say they are your kids are f*cked as well...

[CosmicCowboy]

There's a difference between having it affect you, and bring up posts like this that mean absolutely nothing. Yeah the debt is rising...and? The debt of this country has been rising since it was first founded..maybe even more so.

It would have been nice to hear your reservations about spending during the invasion of Iraq and advocating for us to leave both Iraq and Afghanistan and cut the spending there. But you weren't.

You honestly think there is no tipping point? That debt can just rise forever? With no ramifications? Do you not see the Fed monetizing debt?

Yeah, math is clearly not something you understand.

[DMX7]

"Reagan proved deficits don't matter."
-Dick Cheney, Dark Sith

[EVAY]

And how much more will they owe after the $828 Billion tax cut package that was passed hits the bottom line?

[CosmicCowboy]

And how much more will they owe after the $828 Billion tax cut package that was passed hits the bottom line?

Dumb.

It wasn't a tax cut. It was an extension of the current tax rates.

Now if you want to debate raising taxes on everyone thats a whole different thread.

I think everyone in here will agree that getting the deficit under control (if it's even possible at this late date) will require raising taxes and massively cutting spending.

[Duff McCartney]

You honestly think there is no tipping point? That debt can just rise forever? With no ramifications? Do you not see the Fed monetizing debt?

Yeah, math is clearly not something you understand.

I do believe absolutely there is a tipping point and the debt can't rise forever. But to pretend like this is a two year phenomenon is ridiculous. Maybe you were or were not advocating for massive cuts in spending when the last administration was in, I don't know.

But I do know that the problem runs deeper than this administration will ever be able to remedy. Maybe it's the way the entire system is run, because raising taxes and cutting pork projects is barely a dent in the debt. It would take massive cutting of defense spending to also bring the debt down. But nobody is willing to do that.

[CosmicCowboy]

I do believe absolutely there is a tipping point and the debt can't rise forever. But to pretend like this is a two year phenomenon is ridiculous. Maybe you were or were not advocating for massive cuts in spending when the last administration was in, I don't know.

But I do know that the problem runs deeper than this administration will ever be able to remedy. Maybe it's the way the entire system is run, because raising taxes and cutting pork projects is barely a dent in the debt. It would take massive cutting of defense spending to also bring the debt down. But nobody is willing to do that.

Duff, next time at least read the linked article before you recite your "I'm a cool liberal" cue cards.

It had all the numbers.

It's called exponential growth.

As you are starting to sense, it's a structural problem and not a Republican/Democrat problem.

EVERYTHING needs to be cut and it needs to be cut now.

As you said about defense, ain't gonna happen.

[Winehole23]

Dumb.EVAY ain't dumb, and you went rhetorical.

Whatever you call it, it adds around $800B to the deficit.

[Winehole23]

And you're all for it, correct?

[Winehole23]

How much more will we owe now, b/c of the extension?


Have you made that calculation yet?

[boutons_deux]

"EVERYTHING needs to be cut and it needs to be cut now"

Somehow I don't think Congress will not cut their own salaries, staffing, expense accounts, gold-plated health and pension plans. Do you?

Defense, DEA, oil/gas/coal tax breaks/subsidies, DHS, etc won't be touched.

I figure CC means only cutting health care, pensions, school meals for kids, poor, elderly, and other vulnerable, non-lobbyist-supported targets.

[CosmicCowboy]

"EVERYTHING needs to be cut and it needs to be cut now"

Somehow I don't think Congress will not cut their own salaries, staffing, expense accounts, gold-plated health and pension plans. Do you?

Defense, DEA, oil/gas/coal tax breaks/subsidies, DHS, etc won't be touched.

I figure CC means only cutting health care, pensions, school meals for kids, poor, elderly, and other vulnerable, non-lobbyist-supported targets.

No, dumbass. I say put everything on the chopping block, including defense. As for corporate tax breaks, I am on record in here advocating a two stage flat tax with no exceptions, deductions, or credits.

[boutons_deux]

What you say and what will happen are about as overlapping the The Truth and anything coming from Fox Repug Propaganda network.

Without doubt, as the VRWC has always intended, tax cuts and tax loopholes for the wealthy will continue, while spending on the needy (they aren't Real Americans after all) and tax increases on the needy will be progressive. aka, wealth redistribution from the lower 98% to the top 2%.

And it's ONLY the lower 98%'s kids who are getting killed and maimed in the VRWC/MIC bogus wars. Shared sacrifice? GMAFB

[Winehole23]

How much more will we owe now, b/c of the extension?


Have you made that calculation yet?You pretended to care, CC.

Have you tallied up the cost of the extension of the Bush tax cuts per capita, on top of the given tally?

If not, why not?

[sickdsm]

National Debt affects all of us greatly. I like watching this video from time to time. I'm not a doomsayer but i think it shows a very possible outcome and helps me keep things in perspective. Especially the part of the Chinese pulling their money out.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2N8gJSMoOJc&feature=pyv&ad=6050032234&kw=market


Grain Markets are near an all time high with some investment firms already buying options that will pay off if they double. Think about that. Professional investors are taking your grandma's retirement money and banking on doubling commodity prices. Do you guys think you can afford $15 milk and everything associated with it?


That would be guns/ammo/lock the front door scenario.

[Yonivore]

Hey, I'm debt free and, if the Senate will pass the Repeal of ObamaCare and His Excellence will sign it, according to the CBO (That would be the Congressional Budge Office that, until now has towed the Administration line one ObamaCare), it would reduce spending by a half-trillion dollars and lower taxes by three quarters of a trillion.

My kids and grand kids appreciate that greatly.

There are Democrat Senators that know the 2010 midterms were about Obama's and Pelosi's agenda and see their own fates -- in 2012 -- riding on how they respond to the mandate to undo Obama's radical agenda. It's possible this, along with the repeal of Administrative Czarism, may actually pass out of the Senate to force a presidential veto.

We live in interesting times...so, the old Chinese curse says.

[Yonivore]

National Debt affects all of us greatly. I like watching this video from time to time. I'm not a doomsayer but i think it shows a very possible outcome and helps me keep things in perspective. Especially the part of the Chinese pulling their money out.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2N8gJSMoOJc&feature=pyv&ad=6050032234&kw=market


Grain Markets are near an all time high with some investment firms already buying options that will pay off if they double. Think about that. Professional investors are taking your grandma's retirement money and banking on doubling commodity prices. Do you guys think you can afford $15 milk and everything associated with it?


That would be guns/ammo/lock the front door scenario.
I didn't pay that close of attention to the time line but, since the video begins on December 19, 2012 and, presumably takes place over a short period of time, are the producers trying to tie it all in with the 12/21/2012 hysteria?

Excellent marketing.

[Yonivore]

You pretended to care, CC.

Have you tallied up the cost of the extension of the Bush tax cuts per capita, on top of the given tally?

If not, why not?
Allowing people to keep more of their money, in the form of tax cuts -- particularly the extension of an existing tax structure, doesn't cost them anything. It's the Government spending that costs.

Have you tallied up the cost of all the policy initiatives of the Obama administration per capita?

Somebody has to stand up and say, enough, we can't afford it -- even if you tax the shit out of everyone.

[Winehole23]

Allowing people to keep more of their money, in the form of tax cuts -- particularly the extension of an existing tax structure, doesn't cost them anything. It's the Government spending that costs.If tax cuts aren't offset by spending cuts, the result is more deficit. The money borrowed to fill the gap costs us all.

Have you tallied up the cost of all the policy initiatives of the Obama administration per capita?No, but I don't defend those policies, so I'm not quite sure why it falls to me to cost them out.

CC drew attention to the national debt. Like you, his concern about it appears to be selective.

[Yonivore]

If tax cuts aren't offset by spending cuts, the result is more deficit. The money borrowed to fill the gap costs us all.
Then stop spending.


No, but I don't defend those policies, so I'm not quite sure why it falls to me to cost them out.
Why? Because it's the spending, not the lack of taxes, that bankrupting this country. Far from not defending the policies, any right-thinking American should be in full-throated opposition to them.

Hence, the Tea Party.


CC drew attention to the national debt. Like you, his concern about it appears to be selective.
It's not selective. I choose to separate tax policy from government spending policy. I don't think Americans should be footing the bill on much -- the vast majority -- of what Washington vomits our trillions in treasure.

Let them get their money somewhere else.

[boutons_deux]

"Because it's the spending, not the lack of taxes, that bankrupting this country."

You Lie

[Yonivore]

Tell me something, Winehole. If you run out of paycheck before you have everything you need and want, do you demand more money from your employer?

No, you either borrow money or you wait and save until you have enough money to make the purchase.

There are so many government expenses that are unnecessary that many of us are fed up. They can cut the spending.

Cut unnecessary spending.

Get serious about waste, fraud, and abuse of entitlements -- that, alone, would probably erase the deficit.

Quit paying years of unemployment to dead beats.

Stop building [name your Congressman] memorial [name your project]s.

[Winehole23]

I choose to separate tax policy from government spending policy. The two bear some relation to each other. You separate them so as to avoid having to justify the consequences of deficit financed cuts.

[Yonivore]

The two bear some relation to each other. You separate them so as to avoid having to justify the consequences of deficit financed cuts.
I don't understand why the argument can't go the other way?

You join them to justify out-of-control government spending. You seem to believe the American people should just open their wallets and fund whatever wild-eyed, pie-in-the-sky, spending measure those 536 people in Washington care to dream up.

Cut spending. Stop Spending. It's that simple.

[Winehole23]

You join them to justify out-of-control government spending. You seem to believe the American people should just open their wallets and fund whatever wild-eyed, pie-in-the-sky, spending measure those 536 people in Washington care to dream up.I support no such thing. Per contra, your defense of deficit financed cuts couldn't be any louder, or any clearer.

[Yonivore]

I support no such thing. Per contra, your defense of deficit financed cuts couldn't be any louder, or any clearer.
Stop spending. Cut Spending. Move money from unnecessary government programs to the Constitutionally mandated government programs.

Close, de-fund, and dismantlle unconstitutional government bureaucracies.

Institute a fair and reality-based tax policy where everyone -- all 350 Million of us -- pay a fair and proportional amount of tax to support the necessary aims of government.

Period.

It's that simple.

[Winehole23]

Are you for the extension of tax cuts Obama negotiated with the GOP last month? It's that simple.

I'm not for it because the costs aren't offset by spending cuts.

Are you for the deal or against it, Yoni?

[Yonivore]

Are you for the extension of tax cuts Obama negotiated with the GOP last month? It's that simple.

I'm not for it because the costs aren't offset by spending cuts.

Are you for the deal or against it, Yoni?
I don't think it went far enough.

Are you for or against raising the debt ceiling?

Republicans are against it unless it is joined with drastic spending cuts. I think that's a good plan.

[Winehole23]

I don't think it went far enough.Is that a qualified yes?

Are you for or against raising the debt ceiling?I think it's a dumb idea not to. The costs sovereign default would add to our debt load would probably outweigh any good it might do to leave it unchanged. There's more than one way to skin a cat. Intentionally defaulting on US obligations ain't the way to go.


Republicans are against it unless it is joined with drastic spending cuts. I think that's a good plan.It would be, if that were in fact their plan. As it stands, the GOP is backing away from spending cuts and won't vote against new tax cuts.

[sickdsm]

I didn't pay that close of attention to the time line but, since the video begins on December 19, 2012 and, presumably takes place over a short period of time, are the producers trying to tie it all in with the 12/21/2012 hysteria?

Excellent marketing.



I don't think so. I believe its tied into the projected date of when QE4 is supposed to kick in.

[sickdsm]

LMAO at the guys thinking that raising taxes will stop the bleeding. I'm going to assume that they/you work for someone else. Why should I take the risk of being a small business owner and employer if my higher profit is going to be taxed to sh*t? Its certainly nice as a Joe Blow punching the clock to hang his headaches at the door when I can't. Enough is enough, we need to drastically cut the spending. I don't beleive it will happan though.

[sickdsm]

I don't think so. I believe its tied into the projected date of when QE4 is supposed to kick in.

Isn't it supposed 12-12-11, or so the doomsayers say it will end?

[Winehole23]

LMAO at the guys thinking that raising taxes will stop the bleeding. Incorrect. Spending has to be cut at the same time, and debt retired.

[sickdsm]

Yes, but far more important is drastically cutting spending. Pretty far off the wall to actually happen. Like I said before, Taxes are enough for the guy taking the risk. Why should I stick my foot out anymore?

[Winehole23]

Yes, but far more important is drastically cutting spending. I can see you're still laboring under the delusion that the US taxpayer can somehow be spared the cost of correcting fiscal and economic imbalances that built up for 30 years.

[Winehole23]

It's an effective pose electorally, to be sure. But it's not realistic.

[boutons_deux]

deficit vs jobs.

Sure looks like DC is gonna fuck the people wanting jobs (jobs which also keep tax revenues down and deficit up), but DC won't dent the deficit.

Repugs already saying their $100B of cuts in discretionary spending was "hypothetical".

[sickdsm]

It's an effective pose electorally, to be sure. But it's not realistic.

Do you see any way of raising taxes effectively but still doable to the individual? It won't put a dent into things Drastic measures like eliminating social security, slicing welfare programs down, reduce foreign aid and cutting govt. jobs are needed.

The aid to Israel with their actions is ridiculous



Higher taxes are just going to get put right back into programs.


The govt money that gets pissed away around here is unbelievable. New govt. houses that fixtures get ripped out and pawned bc they'll just bring a new one.

And your going to raise taxes enough to continue to pay for things like that?


And where is the "taxpayer spared" by slicing govt funding? The taxpayer is that has been paying for alot of the things that they don't benefit from in the first place. Same pay but reduced benefits is being spared?

[Winehole23]

And where is the "taxpayer spared" by slicing govt funding? The taxpayer is that has been paying for alot of the things that they don't benefit from in the first place. Same pay but reduced benefits is being spared?This is actually a good point. Cutting benefits is intrinsically painful. Socially speaking.

Officially, I'm not allowed to care about the worthless layabouts deprived of public largesse you're calling us to pity here, but that host doubtless includes many worthy and otherwise respectable US taxpayers too.

[Winehole23]

Their pain is and will be real.