Quick Grades: Spurs vs. Lakers - Dec. 28

[timvp]

Quick Grades: Spurs vs. Lakers (http://www.sanantoniodispatch.com/san-antonio-spurs/spurs-grades/quick-grades-spurs-vs-lakers/)

Entering the contest with a two-game losing streak, the Lakers entered the game with a chip on their shoulder. After the Spurs cruised to a 97-82 victory, the Lakers left with a chip on their shoulder. San Antonio took control in the middle of the third quarter and never looked back. Offensively, the Spurs, especially the role players, did a good job attacking. However, it was defense where the game was won. The Spurs held L.A. to 35.4% shooting from the field and only 38 second half points. The win improves the Spurs to 27-4, which is now six games better than the 21-10 Lakers.

Tim Duncan D
If you told me before the game that Tim Duncan would score two points and pull down four rebounds on 1-for-7 shooting in 29 minutes, I’d ask how many points the Lakers won by. Thankfully, the Spurs were able to overcome Duncan’s difficult night. They did so by basically going away from him and limiting his touches. Duncan simply couldn’t do anything against the length of the Lakers on the offensive end. Defensively, he was better. He defended the post well, played good team defense and ran the court. However, his lack of defensive boards wasn’t helping matters.

Manu Ginobili A-
I’ve given Manu Ginobili credit when he played very well offensively and mediocre defense. Tonight, it was the opposite. Defense is where Ginobili shined. He made life extremely difficult for Kobe Bryant, even early on when Bryant hit four of his first five shots. Ginobili’s defensive success came by making it difficult for Bryant to catch the ball and then harassing his dribble. Ginobili also did great work challenging shots without fouling. On offense, it wasn’t a graceful evening for the Argentine star. He missed 8-of-12 shots and committed four of the team’s nine turnovers. To Ginobili’s credit, he handed out a team-high six assists and quarterbacked a Duncan-less and Parker-less lineup in the second half that was able to keep the lead for a seven-minute stretch.

Tony Parker A+
Tony Parker was the engine that drove the team Tuesday night. He was relentless in pushing the pace and getting the team into its offense before the Lakers could set their defense. He created very well for himself and others — and would have had a healthy amount of assists if his teammates were knocking down open three-pointers. Defensively, Parker was also very good. He kept the Lakers point guards from doing much of anything and competed well when switched onto bigger players. All in all, Parker played with an impressive amount of aggression and toughness, while buzzing around the court at a speed that was seemingly a step faster than usual. Oh, and he did all that without turning the ball over in his 34 minutes of work.

Richard Jefferson A-
Although Richard Jefferson’s outing might be remembered most for the handful of open three-pointers he missed, I thought it was very important that he kept shooting. Last year, Jefferson would have shied away from the perimeter shot and would have clogged the team’s offensive attack. By continuing to fire away, Jefferson stuck to his role and allowed the Spurs to keep getting open looks. On defense, Jefferson wasn’t as great as his compatriots but he made a few very good plays off the ball. His seven rebounds were important and his physicality was at a higher than normal level.

DeJuan Blair A+
When you look at the Spurs and Lakers on paper, the biggest weakness for the Spurs is their lack of comparable size. In particular, Blair being able to hang on offense or defense against L.A.’s bigmen appears to be an impossibility. Well, on the court, things played out much differently. Blair played with endless energy and was the best bigman on either team. Offensively, he utilized a combination of crafty moves and brute strength to score 17 points. On defense, his quick feet and quicker hands made it difficult for the Lakers to take advantage of their superior height. When the ball was free, Blair went and got it — finishing with a season-high 15 boards. We’ll have to wait and see how it plays out in the subsequent matchups this season but for at least one night Blair was a much bigger asset against the Lakers than anyone could have imagined.

George Hill A+
It’s not a coincidence that the Spurs allowed 110.5 points per contest in the four games George Hill recently missed due to a toe injury. It’s also not a coincidence that the Spurs are allowing only 81 points in the two games since his return. Against the Lakers, his defense was unbelievable. The Spurs haven’t had a perimeter player play better defense since #12 retired. Against Bryant, Hill wouldn’t give him an inch and was the main reason Bryant finished 8-for-27 from the field. His nine rebounds (eight defensive), four blocks and two steals all speak to how active Hill was on this night. When he wasn’t flustering Bryant, Hill was swooping in from away from the ball to muck up a Lakers possession. On offense, Hill was also good. He got to the free throw line seven times and kept the pedal to the metal. Overall, Hill did everything the Spurs could have wanted out of him — and more.

Matt Bonner A
Matt Bonner gave the Spurs a solid 26 minutes of action. Defensively, Bonner was strong and played better than expected post defense. He also did good work out on the perimeter and boarded well. On offense, he was the only shooter able to knock down three-pointers (he was 2-for-3, the rest of the team was 7-for-29). When things got stagnant on the offensive end, Bonner had surprising success using his dribble to create. This game gave Pop no reason to stop giving Bonner consistent minutes.

Gary Neal B+
Early on, Gary Neal couldn’t buy a shot from three-point land. But sticking with it, Neal eventually found his stroke and drained a pair of fourth quarter triples that helped nail the coffin. Defensively, he was good enough and played with a ton of juice on that end. For his first ever taste of Spurs versus Lakers, Neal showed the competitiveness and fearlessness needed in this heated rivalry.

Tiago Splitter C
When Tiago Splitter signed, his ability to help negate the Lakers size advantage was hyped. In the first go-around, it didn’t really work out as planned. He had trouble scoring or rebounding against the length. On the post, the Lakers were most comfortable when Splitter was on the court. Splitter had a couple nice plays but it was mostly a night to forget for the big Brazilian.

Gregg Popovich A
One of the main differences between the two teams on Tuesday night was the fact that the Spurs adjusted better to living with a struggling superstar. Even when Bryant was cold, the Lakers continued to run their offense through him. Pop, on the other hand, was quickly able to go away from Duncan and, to a lesser degree, Ginobili. I was happy that Pop gave Splitter a chance to get his feet wet against the Lakers. Pop also deserves credit for continuing to believe in Neal and sticking with Blair after he had a horrific opening stint.

[polandprzem]

Manu Ginobili A-

LJ is on crack !

[Darkwaters]

Nice to have the Quick Grades back Timvp!

Hope all is going well for you and the fam. Merry belated Christmas and, of course, happy new year.

[SpurSpurSpurs]

Aren't you being too generous with those grades?

They've been playing great even if Tim is not. Does this mean we should trade him now? Kidding! ROFLMAO!

[benefactor]

RJ...:tu

I almost at the point where I am ready to completely take back all the negative things I said about RJ in the offseason. Last year RJ's all around game would have suffered along with all the missed shots. This year he is much more consistent in maintaining his agressiveness no matter what happens. He is being exactly what we need at the SF position right now.

Hill...Blair...nothing else needs to be said. They played out of their minds and were the reason the Spurs won the game. Let's hope we see the same two players against the Lakers in a seven game series.

[igruex]

Tiago Splitter C
When Tiago Splitter signed, his ability to help negate the Lakers size advantage was hyped. In the first go-around, it didn’t really work out as planned. He had trouble scoring or rebounding against the length. On the post, the Lakers were most comfortable when Splitter was on the court. Splitter had a couple nice plays but it was mostly a night to forget for the big Brazilian.


It seems to me Tiago got used to have a size advantage. He's struggling to adjust to compete against size on a regular basis.

[Mal]

Duncan played some good defense on Gasol. He should be better then D, just for that.

[sa_butta]

Ginobili's overall grade seems a bit high to me...

[Spurs Brazil]

Great grades timvp :tu

[timvp]

Ginobili was difficult to grade because while he wasn't very good on offense, it was by far his best defensive game of the season -- especially in terms of individual defense. So if I routinely give him good grades even when he doesn't play much defense, I don't think I could have given him a much lower grade when his impact on the game just happened to come in a different form.

[TDMVPDPOY]

that tim duncan fella is posting up scrub numbers, maybe he should void his contract and settle for nba minimum....

[MI21]

Nice grades, pretty much agree.

The two guys I was most impressed and surprised by were Bonner and Blair, who were the two biggest question marks for mine.

This has to give them confidence next time they face LA.

[polandprzem]

Ginobili was difficult to grade because while he wasn't very good on offense, it was by far his best defensive game of the season -- especially in terms of individual defense. So if I routinely give him good grades even when he doesn't play much defense, I don't think I could have given him a much lower grade when his impact on the game just happened to come in a different form.

That's correct

With his impact on a game spurs played better.

But IMO a grade B- is more adequate.
1. You had him struggling on O
2. LA are not in great shape
2a. LA played poorly when it comes to take advantage of the big lineup
2b. They seemed to lack energy

[mathbzh]

Ginobili's grade his a little bit too high (B/B+)
This season, he is our MVP and I expect more from him.

[polandprzem]

Nice grades, pretty much agree.

The two guys I was most impressed and surprised by were Bonner and Blair, who were the two biggest question marks for mine.

This has to give them confidence next time they face LA.

Still LA gonna dare Spurs (bonner) to hit treys. Without 3poiter spurs O is bad against bigs of LA caliber players. And if the ball gonna be slower in the palyoffs our halfcourt sucks and moving ball will not be as fluid.

Hopefully spurs can build from this win on the defensive end from now on.
If not - this will be a fluke game.

[Cry Havoc]

Someone grade the Lakers please...

No problem.

Derek Fisher D+
Fish looked completely lost in this game. Swarmed by incredible defensive rotations, he finished with as many turnovers (3) as assists. On a night the Lakers desperately needed someone to hit shots, Fisher shied away from firing away, and after his 3rd quarter mini-meltdown against Richard Jefferson (which undoubtedly will inspire many a "U MAD?" poster), the Spurs put the Lakers away. 0 for 1 from downtown, Fisher looked old and out of sorts against San Antonio's speedy, slashing backcourt. Fisher was -21 in just 25 minutes of action, a performance that could see the Laker brass scrambling for potential trades to shore up their PG depth, of which they have little to speak of.

Kobe Bryant F
Kobe gets the worst grade out of any player from last night. He began by immediately taking 5 of his team's first 6 shots, and didn't pass the ball on any of those possessions, completely removing any offensive flow the Lakers had. His spat with George Hill, along with missing 13 shots in a row made it very apparent that the Spurs combination of Manu and Hill with a dash of RJ on switches got into his head. Obviously bothered by George Hill's length :hat, Kobe did get warm in the 4th, when the game was already close to being over, and pulled the Lakers to within 9 before the Spurs scored the knockout punch. His 5 turnovers to go with just one assist is a microcosm of the Lakers right now -- Selfish, stat-hungry, and completely out of rhythm on offense. After all his time in the league, Kobe still hasn't made the mental commitment to playing team basketball, and he killed their momentum before it could ever get started last night.

Ron Artest C-
One rebound. That's all you need to know about his contribution to defense last night. Really, does anyone recall Artest even playing? Other than knocking down a couple of treys (the only player besides Kobe to hit more than one three), Artest was largely invisible in this showing. He gets a C- because he was one of only three Lakers to finish with 10+ points, and was the only Laker with significant minutes who didn't turn the ball over. He actually didn't get a tech this game, so that contributes to his (relatively) serene score below.

"What about Bob?" rating: Chillin' on his shrink's couch, but needing a stress ball.

Lamar Odom D
The man who is usually a complete nightmare for the Spurs to guard, Odom shot 33% in this game. He did pull down 8 rebounds, but with both teams missing so much, that's not really as much to his credit. His hustle looked great at times, and at others he didn't even seem to want to be on the court. Overall, he wasn't nearly aggressive enough on either side of the ball. Odom gets a lower grade than usual because he HAS to demand the ball in games like this, as he presents perhaps the most difficult mismatch of anyone the Lakers have for the Spurs.

Pau Gasol D
Another player who gets a low grade due to the fact that he should be far more effective, Gasol continues his surprising lack of stellar play in the post for the Lakers. Be it from fatigue, injury, or just a lack of desire, Gasol's play as of late has to be highly disconcerting to the Lakers management. Gasol looked slow and hesitant all night, and got caught flat footed by the Spurs slashing guards, who blew by him early and often for easy points. He did finish with 3 blocks, however he wasn't closing plays out, and got completely smashed on the glass by DeJuan Blair. Harassed by help D and double teams, Gasol elected often to pass out of the post, something that will only give opposing bigs more confidence to force him into uncomfortable spots on the floor. The Lakers need to be patient and to repost Gasol, because if he isn't effective, they often must resort to Kobe's outside shot as their primary method of scoring.

Steve Blake C-
When the other team is actually happy to see you, that's usually a bad thing. Such was the case last night for Blake, who along with Fisher looked completely lost on offense, and couldn't guard a sack of potatoes on D. It stands to question that in the heat of the undoubtedly tough Western Conference Playoffs this year, will Phil ever feel comfortable putting Blake into the game? "Alright Steve, get out there and guard Deron. Steve? Hello?" "He fainted, coach." "Oh." The Lakers are going to struggle to get anything from this position in the playoffs unless Fisher is hitting his shots. Why the C-? Well, what were you expecting from Steve Blake?

Shannon Brown C-
I wanted to give Shannon an F, due to his 1-11 shooting. But did anyone notice that he also outrebounded every other Laker? In a minute less than Bynum, the 6'4" guard from Illinois pulled in 11 boards. For comparison, in 34 minutes Gasol had five rebounds. However, Shannon just couldn't hit a jumper in this game, and if you're a scorer on your team and you don't score, you're hurting the team. Phil should seriously consider starting Shannon Brown at PF instead of Gasol, just to send a message loud and clear to his struggling star. Phil could even borrow a jersey from Sir Charles to really drive the message home that a 6'4" guy shouldn't be kicking Pau's ass, even if they're on the same team.

Matt Barnes B+
I actually liked what I saw from Barnes, in the limited minutes (17) he played. He came with intensity on defense, and looked much more active than most Lakers. He drove into the paint and hit a couple of tough shots against the San Antonio defense. I can't understand why Phil didn't reward him with more playing time, because aside from Bynum, Barnes was one of L.A.'s positive influences last night on both sides of the court. In fact, every time I see this guy he seems to be consistently doing good things for L.A., making me wonder why he's relegated so often to the end of the bench.

Andrew Bynum A-
Really, how could you ask much more of this guy? He hit all 4 of the shots he took. He attacked on offense. He had nearly as many boards as Odom and Gasol in far fewer minutes. Phil says he's a step slow and so he's not playing him as much, but if anything I thought he was much more assertive at rotating to the ball than Gasol was last night. Bynum gets docked to an A because he only had one foul, meaning he should have been more aggressive, and down to an A- because of his Shaq-like line at the stripe: 2-8, the only Laker to miss from the free throw line, yet because of his struggles the team shot a collective 16-22. Yikes. Popovich is undoubtedly rubbing his hands, plotting in the playoffs to go with his vaunted, "Hack-a-Bynum" strategy, or perhaps the less well-known "Chop-a-Drew". Also of note, high school BBall coaches everywhere are busting their clipboards as their players think, "Wow, I can make it to the NBA without ever learning to shoot free throws!"

Derrick Caracter, Joe Smith, and Luke Walton: B+
Managing just 3 minutes between them (well, all allotted to a guy that I didn't even know played for the Lakers in Caracter), the trio of unsung superstars actually didn't do anything to hurt the Lakers last night. Caracter had 5 points in 3 minutes of play even, proving he's already a more effective scorer than Kobe.

Phil Jackson D-
Really, I'm not sure I can give Phil a grade for this game, because it was obvious as soon as the game started that #24 was the one in control of the Lakeshow. Still, Phil should be heavily critiqued for his coaching job last night. Failing to throw an early reign on Bryant, he let Bean single-handedly destroy any offensive rhythm the Lakers might have had, then didn't play the guys who actually seemed like they wanted to be on the court. More PT to Barnes and Bynum, and the Lakers might have kept the lead to single digits and had a shot in the 4th. Phil was completely outcoached by Popovich here, as his team could not deal with the frenetic speed and rotating D the Spurs used all night to frustrate and confuse the Lakers starters.


EDIT: Changed Barnes from B- to a B+, added some content.

[Frankie23]

Hey kids, this game is played at both ends of the floor. Manu got an A++ at D but struggle with his shooting night despite hitting a big 3s in the 4th quarter that was kind of a dagger.. But, instead of chucking like other stars, he passes the ball (6 assists)

[Xevious]

Hill and Blair won this game. We all knew those two would have to be big this season for us to hang with the big boys and they showed it tonight.

[emanueldavidginobili]

100% agree on manu grade his defense was very good, using his quick hands to be a pest to the lakers also he set up his teamates well he could of had more assist if neal hit a couple more shots, but did anyone see when they were talking about manu on nba tv with kevin mchale and chris webber? it was pretty cool how mchale said he saw manu in europe when he was 20 and he said he was the most wildest player he has ever seen throwing passes 30 rows up in the stands every other possesion haha.

[polandprzem]

Hey kids, this game is played at both ends of the floor. Manu got an A++ at D but struggle with his shooting night despite hitting a big 3s in the 4th quarter that was kind of a dagger.. But, instead of chucking like other stars, he passes the ball (6 assists)

Wow a whole new level of basketball knowledge :wow:

[lefty]

It’s also not a coincidence that the Spurs are allowing only 81 points in the two games since his return. (Hill)

For his first ever taste of Spurs versus Lakers, Neal showed the competitiveness and fearlessness needed in this heated rivalry.



Gregg Popovich A
One of the main differences between the two teams on Tuesday night was the fact that the Spurs adjusted better to living with a struggling superstar. Even when Bryant was cold, the Lakers continued to run their offense through him. Pop, on the other hand, was quickly able to go away from Duncan and, to a lesser degree, Ginobili. I was happy that Pop gave Splitter a chance to get his feet wet against the Lakers. Pop also deserves credit for continuing to believe in Neal and sticking with Blair after he had a horrific opening stint.

:tu

[dunkman]

The Spurs are a good team this season, playing at home they are expected to win always.

It certainly isn't a good sign that the Lakers had various losing streaks, but it's only a regular season game. It's not a true measure about the Lakers and the Spurs can play better too.

The NBA best record is impressive, thought the Celtics are probably still a better team - because the Spurs played most of their games at home.

[Spursfanfromafar]

@ CryHavoc, ..Nice take on the Lakers. Very amusing to read.

[Cry Havoc]

@ CryHavoc, ..Nice take on the Lakers. Very amusing to read.

Thanks! :tu Was beginning to wonder if anyone was going to read it. :lol

[Darkwaters]

Thanks! :tu Was beginning to wonder if anyone was going to read it. :lol

I read it. :toast

Nice read. I wonder if the Lakers fans would agree on the take?

[ShoogarBear]

It's an anomaly that Duncan was invisible, Dice was a DNP-CD, and Blair was the dominant big man on either side. You have to figure that in future matchups Duncan and Blair both regress to their means (along with Gasol), and Dice gets off the bench. So, despite Splitter being a relative nonfactor in this game, I think the key to a seven-game Laker series will still depend largely on whether the Spurs can get 15 effective MPG from him.

[lefty]

No problem.

Derek Fisher D+
Fish looked completely lost in this game. Swarmed by incredible defensive rotations, he finished with as many turnovers (3) as assists. On a night the Lakers desperately needed someone to hit shots, Fisher shied away from firing away, and after his 3rd quarter mini-meltdown against Richard Jefferson (which undoubtedly will inspire many a "U MAD?" poster), the Spurs put the Lakers away. 0 for 1 from downtown, Fisher looked old and out of sorts against San Antonio's speedy, slashing backcourt. Fisher was -21 in just 25 minutes of action, a performance that could see the Laker brass scrambling for potential trades to shore up their PG depth, of which they have little to speak of.

Kobe Bryant F
Kobe gets the worst grade out of any player from last night. He began by immediately taking 5 of his team's first 6 shots, and didn't pass the ball on any of those possessions, completely removing any offensive flow the Lakers had. His spat with George Hill, along with missing 13 shots in a row made it very apparent that the Spurs combination of Manu and Hill with a dash of RJ on switches got into his head. Obviously bothered by George Hill's length :hat, Kobe did get warm in the 4th, when the game was already close to being over, and pulled the Lakers to within 9 before the Spurs scored the knockout punch. His 5 turnovers to go with just one assist is a microcosm of the Lakers right now -- Selfish, stat-hungry, and completely out of rhythm on offense. After all his time in the league, Kobe still hasn't made the mental commitment to playing team basketball, and he killed their momentum before it could ever get started last night.

Ron Artest C-
One rebound. That's all you need to know about his contribution to defense last night. Really, does anyone recall Artest even playing? Other than knocking down a couple of treys (the only player besides Kobe to hit more than one three), Artest was largely invisible in this showing. He gets a C- because he was one of only three Lakers to finish with 10+ points, and was the only Laker with significant minutes who didn't turn the ball over. He actually didn't get a tech this game, so that contributes to his (relatively) serene score below.

"What about Bob?" rating: Chillin' on his shrink's couch, but needing a stress ball.

Lamar Odom D
The man who is usually a complete nightmare for the Spurs to guard, Odom shot 33% in this game. He did pull down 8 rebounds, but with both teams missing so much, that's not really as much to his credit. His hustle looked great at times, and at others he didn't even seem to want to be on the court. Overall, he wasn't nearly aggressive enough on either side of the ball. Odom gets a lower grade than usual because he HAS to demand the ball in games like this, as he presents perhaps the most difficult mismatch of anyone the Lakers have for the Spurs.

Pau Gasol D
Another player who gets a low grade due to the fact that he should be far more effective, Gasol continues his surprising lack of stellar play in the post for the Lakers. Be it from fatigue, injury, or just a lack of desire, Gasol's play as of late has to be highly disconcerting to the Lakers management. Gasol looked slow and hesitant all night, and got caught flat footed by the Spurs slashing guards, who blew by him early and often for easy points. He did finish with 3 blocks, however he wasn't closing plays out, and got completely smashed on the glass by DeJuan Blair. Harassed by help D and double teams, Gasol elected often to pass out of the post, something that will only give opposing bigs more confidence to force him into uncomfortable spots on the floor. The Lakers need to be patient and to repost Gasol, because if he isn't effective, they often must resort to Kobe's outside shot as their primary method of scoring.

Steve Blake C-
When the other team is actually happy to see you, that's usually a bad thing. Such was the case last night for Blake, who along with Fisher looked completely lost on offense, and couldn't guard a sack of potatoes on D. It stands to question that in the heat of the undoubtedly tough Western Conference Playoffs this year, will Phil ever feel comfortable putting Blake into the game? "Alright Steve, get out there and guard Deron. Steve? Hello?" "He fainted, coach." "Oh." The Lakers are going to struggle to get anything from this position in the playoffs unless Fisher is hitting his shots. Why the C-? Well, what were you expecting from Steve Blake?

Shannon Brown C-
I wanted to give Shannon an F, due to his 1-11 shooting. But did anyone notice that he also outrebounded every other Laker? In a minute less than Bynum, the 6'4" guard from Illinois pulled in 11 boards. For comparison, in 34 minutes Gasol had five rebounds. However, Shannon just couldn't hit a jumper in this game, and if you're a scorer on your team and you don't score, you're hurting the team. Phil should seriously consider starting Shannon Brown at PF instead of Gasol, just to send a message loud and clear to his struggling star. Phil could even borrow a jersey from Sir Charles to really drive the message home that a 6'4" guy shouldn't be kicking Pau's ass, even if they're on the same team.

Matt Barnes B+
I actually liked what I saw from Barnes, in the limited minutes (17) he played. He came with intensity on defense, and looked much more active than most Lakers. He drove into the paint and hit a couple of tough shots against the San Antonio defense. I can't understand why Phil didn't reward him with more playing time, because aside from Bynum, Barnes was one of L.A.'s positive influences last night on both sides of the court. In fact, every time I see this guy he seems to be consistently doing good things for L.A., making me wonder why he's relegated so often to the end of the bench.

Andrew Bynum A-
Really, how could you ask much more of this guy? He hit all 4 of the shots he took. He attacked on offense. He had nearly as many boards as Odom and Gasol in far fewer minutes. Phil says he's a step slow and so he's not playing him as much, but if anything I thought he was much more assertive at rotating to the ball than Gasol was last night. Bynum gets docked to an A because he only had one foul, meaning he should have been more aggressive, and down to an A- because of his Shaq-like line at the stripe: 2-8, the only Laker to miss from the free throw line, yet because of his struggles the team shot a collective 16-22. Yikes. Popovich is undoubtedly rubbing his hands, plotting in the playoffs to go with his vaunted, "Hack-a-Bynum" strategy, or perhaps the less well-known "Chop-a-Drew". Also of note, high school BBall coaches everywhere are busting their clipboards as their players think, "Wow, I can make it to the NBA without ever learning to shoot free throws!"

Derrick Caracter, Joe Smith, and Luke Walton: B+
Managing just 3 minutes between them (well, all allotted to a guy that I didn't even know played for the Lakers in Caracter), the trio of unsung superstars actually didn't do anything to hurt the Lakers last night. Caracter had 5 points in 3 minutes of play even, proving he's already a more effective scorer than Kobe.

Phil Jackson D-
Really, I'm not sure I can give Phil a grade for this game, because it was obvious as soon as the game started that #24 was the one in control of the Lakeshow. Still, Phil should be heavily critiqued for his coaching job last night. Failing to throw an early reign on Bryant, he let Bean single-handedly destroy any offensive rhythm the Lakers might have had, then didn't play the guys who actually seemed like they wanted to be on the court. More PT to Barnes and Bynum, and the Lakers might have kept the lead to single digits and had a shot in the 4th. Phil was completely outcoached by Popovich here, as his team could not deal with the frenetic speed and rotating D the Spurs used all night to frustrate and confuse the Lakers starters.


EDIT: Changed Barnes from B- to a B+, added some content.
:tu

[silverblackfan]

Thanks! :tu Was beginning to wonder if anyone was going to read it. :lol

Felt accurate to me.
Barnes really was looking effective for a brief span. Good thing they didn't keep him in the game.

[Anonymous Cowherd]

excellent stuff on the Lakers, except you've been harsh on Odom. He had a fairly good game, certainly better than Shannon Brown or Ron Artest.

[slayermin]

I was actually worried that Blair and Neal were going to stink up the joint after their first half efforts. But to their credit, both kept fighting and turned in nice performances.

Splitter struggled and looked overmatched. But the effort was there. It's pretty clear that Bynum is gonna be a problem in future matchups. Man, I hope Splitter looks better next time around.

[Agloco]

Derrick Caracter, Joe Smith, and Luke Walton: B+
Managing just 3 minutes between them (well, all allotted to a guy that I didn't even know played for the Lakers in Caracter), the trio of unsung superstars actually didn't do anything to hurt the Lakers last night. Caracter had 5 points in 3 minutes of play even, proving he's already a more effective scorer than Kobe.

:lol

:tu here Havoc

[SenorSpur]

This was indeed a wonderful win, chocked full of some stellar performances by various Spurs players. That said, it's hard for me to imagine the Spurs having long-term success against this Fakers team, with Duncan being a non-factor. As terrific as Blair was, and I certainly hope he can continue this trend of success, the Spurs will still need production of our their future HOF PF/C, if they face off against the Fakers in the playoffs.

[TampaDude]

The Spurs are a good team this season, playing at home they are expected to win always.

It certainly isn't a good sign that the Lakers had various losing streaks, but it's only a regular season game. It's not a true measure about the Lakers and the Spurs can play better too.

The NBA best record is impressive, thought the Celtics are probably still a better team - because the Spurs played most of their games at home.

The Spurs and Celtics are the two best teams in the NBA right now. I know it's still early, but I'd love to see a Spurs-Celtics Finals. That would be EPIC!!! :hat

[gameFACE]

Splitter was just given a taste of what he needs to contend with. This is what you were brought here for. He may not have done well but someone above said at least the effort was there and I agree. You have to throw the guy into the fire and see what you got.

[GSH]

It's an anomaly that Duncan was invisible, Dice was a DNP-CD, and Blair was the dominant big man on either side. You have to figure that in future matchups Duncan and Blair both regress to their means (along with Gasol), and Dice gets off the bench. So, despite Splitter being a relative nonfactor in this game, I think the key to a seven-game Laker series will still depend largely on whether the Spurs can get 15 effective MPG from him.

That's probably not far off. But I think it would be a lot less necessary if Tim can remember how to shoot that 15-footer off the glass. He's got to be able to force those guys to respect that shot, to keep them from sagging to the restricted circle where they can gang bang him. Tim's lack of a top shelf game is already a big liability. When he is totally without that mid-range shot, he's a one trick pony. And I don't care how good he is at it, two competent big men in the middle are going to shut that down. Tony put the floater back into his game, and it makes a world of difference. Tim has to find his bank shot again - and the sooner the better.

As far as I'm concerned, the Lakers side of things last night came down to one factor - Phil Jackson. It was obvious what his game plan was. He told his team that the Spurs didn't have anyone to match up with Kobe. They were going to come out hard, let Kobe establish his dominance, and the Spurs would fold like origami. And for a few minutes, it looked like he might be right. George Hill was exceptional, and the Spurs team defense was a beautiful thing. The guys are really beginning to trust each other, and with good reason.

My biggest concern for this team is still the Big 3 playing loose and sloppy, and making bad decisions. Last night Tony tightened his act up, and it made a world of difference. (Make no mistake - he was awesome all night.) But Tim and Manu continued to throw the ball away, or at least throw possessions away with their poor passing.

Some of our 3-point woes were just from poor shooting. But a lot of those misses were caused by poor passing. When a 3-point shooter has to lunge to corral the pass, and maybe has to put the ball on the floor once to keep from travelling, it gives the defenders a chance to close. It also forces the shooter to rush the shot, and maybe not get squared up. Sometimes it forces him to pass up what could have been a wide open look. At the very least, it forces them to shoot a slightly different shot than the one they have been lined up on for several seconds. It makes a huge difference, especially on long 3-pointers out on the arc. Tim and Manu were both terrible with their passes last night. There's no way to prove it, but I'm dead certain that we would have made more of those shots, and totally blown the Lakers out of the game, if the passing had been better.

I'm also getting really sick of watching plays where Duncan gets a rebound, holds it for a second, then tosses a weak-ass little pass towards a guard, without even noticing that a defender is close by. Last night it didn't result in any turnovers, but that was sheer luck along with some hustle by our guards.

Something is squirrelly with Manu's shooting mechanics. The ball rotation is off, and I swear there are times when he is letting the ball roll off his little finger. Some of the shots he's making I think he's pulled (looking at the stroke), and then they go through the net. That's not going to fix itself. I don't know if Chip Engellund can help him, because of his unorthodox style, but I sure hope he gets it fixed before Spring. A shooter needs to keep jacking up shots to work through a slump. But that doesn't work when the stroke isn't sound.

[Frankie23]

Wow a whole new level of basketball knowledge :wow:
Well, maybe you are a coach or something, but don't overestimate the rest..:downspin:

[Bruno]

This game showed how weak Lakers are at the point guard spot. Offensively Blake and Fisher are average but they are a disaster on the defensive end.

The strategy of putting Bryant on Parker and hiding Fisher on a wing won't work as well as in the past because Bryant has slowed down and Spurs' wing are better offensively. Lakers can pack the paint but Spurs are shooting damn well this year. Parker could end up as a nightmare for Lakers in the playoffs because they don't really have an answer to stop him.

[boutons_deux]

they don't really have an answer to stop him.

It all depends on the Spurs can hitting their jump shots, unlike the 04 series where a very hot MvP-ish Tony vs MEM sweep found the Laker paint totally closed, and Malone bitch-slapped Tim, while the Spurs couldn't buy a bucket.

Tim is 6 years older now, so closing the paint again is all the Lakers have to do (as well as hitting their own shots)

[polandprzem]

This game showed how weak Lakers are at the point guard spot. Offensively Blake and Fisher are average but they are a disaster on the defensive end.

The strategy of putting Bryant on Parker and hiding Fisher on a wing won't work as well as in the past because Bryant has slowed down and Spurs' wing are better offensively. Lakers can pack the paint but Spurs are shooting damn well this year. Parker could end up as a nightmare for Lakers in the playoffs because they don't really have an answer to stop him.

The answer for LA was always to pack the paint and getting every possible rebound out of low % FG.

This years spurs are different in a way that they create havoc and unpredictability - something I was pounding last year almost every Polands Perspective volume

[mazerrackham]

Thanks! :tu Was beginning to wonder if anyone was going to read it. :lol

I thought it was good too. Amusing :tu

[jjktkk]

Ginobili's grade his a little bit too high (B/B+)
This season, he is our MVP and I expect more from him.

A true MVP finds other ways to help his team win, when his scoring is off. And thats exactly what Ginoboli did last night.

[jjktkk]

This game showed how weak Lakers are at the point guard spot. Offensively Blake and Fisher are average but they are a disaster on the defensive end.

The strategy of putting Bryant on Parker and hiding Fisher on a wing won't work as well as in the past because Bryant has slowed down and Spurs' wing are better offensively. Lakers can pack the paint but Spurs are shooting damn well this year. Parker could end up as a nightmare for Lakers in the playoffs because they don't really have an answer to stop him.

+1. I've pointed this out in another post that everybody points out the Lakers immense size advatange against the Spurs, and that is true, but no one really mentions that the Spurs overall guard depth will give the Lakers headaches.

[wildbill2u]

The important thing is that we have guys ready to step in and step up their play when some of our Big 3 struggle. Like the Spartan phalanx, when a man goes down, another smoothly stepped forward to take his place in the shield wall due to their discipline.

Not only do we have good reserves, Pop is developing them with the confidence to step in and compete at a high level for extended minutes.

[Manufan909]

No problem.

Derek Fisher D+
Fish looked completely lost in this game. Swarmed by incredible defensive rotations, he finished with as many turnovers (3) as assists. On a night the Lakers desperately needed someone to hit shots, Fisher shied away from firing away, and after his 3rd quarter mini-meltdown against Richard Jefferson (which undoubtedly will inspire many a "U MAD?" poster), the Spurs put the Lakers away. 0 for 1 from downtown, Fisher looked old and out of sorts against San Antonio's speedy, slashing backcourt. Fisher was -21 in just 25 minutes of action, a performance that could see the Laker brass scrambling for potential trades to shore up their PG depth, of which they have little to speak of.

Kobe Bryant F
Kobe gets the worst grade out of any player from last night. He began by immediately taking 5 of his team's first 6 shots, and didn't pass the ball on any of those possessions, completely removing any offensive flow the Lakers had. His spat with George Hill, along with missing 13 shots in a row made it very apparent that the Spurs combination of Manu and Hill with a dash of RJ on switches got into his head. Obviously bothered by George Hill's length :hat, Kobe did get warm in the 4th, when the game was already close to being over, and pulled the Lakers to within 9 before the Spurs scored the knockout punch. His 5 turnovers to go with just one assist is a microcosm of the Lakers right now -- Selfish, stat-hungry, and completely out of rhythm on offense. After all his time in the league, Kobe still hasn't made the mental commitment to playing team basketball, and he killed their momentum before it could ever get started last night.

Ron Artest C-
One rebound. That's all you need to know about his contribution to defense last night. Really, does anyone recall Artest even playing? Other than knocking down a couple of treys (the only player besides Kobe to hit more than one three), Artest was largely invisible in this showing. He gets a C- because he was one of only three Lakers to finish with 10+ points, and was the only Laker with significant minutes who didn't turn the ball over. He actually didn't get a tech this game, so that contributes to his (relatively) serene score below.

"What about Bob?" rating: Chillin' on his shrink's couch, but needing a stress ball.

Lamar Odom D
The man who is usually a complete nightmare for the Spurs to guard, Odom shot 33% in this game. He did pull down 8 rebounds, but with both teams missing so much, that's not really as much to his credit. His hustle looked great at times, and at others he didn't even seem to want to be on the court. Overall, he wasn't nearly aggressive enough on either side of the ball. Odom gets a lower grade than usual because he HAS to demand the ball in games like this, as he presents perhaps the most difficult mismatch of anyone the Lakers have for the Spurs.

Pau Gasol D
Another player who gets a low grade due to the fact that he should be far more effective, Gasol continues his surprising lack of stellar play in the post for the Lakers. Be it from fatigue, injury, or just a lack of desire, Gasol's play as of late has to be highly disconcerting to the Lakers management. Gasol looked slow and hesitant all night, and got caught flat footed by the Spurs slashing guards, who blew by him early and often for easy points. He did finish with 3 blocks, however he wasn't closing plays out, and got completely smashed on the glass by DeJuan Blair. Harassed by help D and double teams, Gasol elected often to pass out of the post, something that will only give opposing bigs more confidence to force him into uncomfortable spots on the floor. The Lakers need to be patient and to repost Gasol, because if he isn't effective, they often must resort to Kobe's outside shot as their primary method of scoring.

Steve Blake C-
When the other team is actually happy to see you, that's usually a bad thing. Such was the case last night for Blake, who along with Fisher looked completely lost on offense, and couldn't guard a sack of potatoes on D. It stands to question that in the heat of the undoubtedly tough Western Conference Playoffs this year, will Phil ever feel comfortable putting Blake into the game? "Alright Steve, get out there and guard Deron. Steve? Hello?" "He fainted, coach." "Oh." The Lakers are going to struggle to get anything from this position in the playoffs unless Fisher is hitting his shots. Why the C-? Well, what were you expecting from Steve Blake?

Shannon Brown C-
I wanted to give Shannon an F, due to his 1-11 shooting. But did anyone notice that he also outrebounded every other Laker? In a minute less than Bynum, the 6'4" guard from Illinois pulled in 11 boards. For comparison, in 34 minutes Gasol had five rebounds. However, Shannon just couldn't hit a jumper in this game, and if you're a scorer on your team and you don't score, you're hurting the team. Phil should seriously consider starting Shannon Brown at PF instead of Gasol, just to send a message loud and clear to his struggling star. Phil could even borrow a jersey from Sir Charles to really drive the message home that a 6'4" guy shouldn't be kicking Pau's ass, even if they're on the same team.

Matt Barnes B+
I actually liked what I saw from Barnes, in the limited minutes (17) he played. He came with intensity on defense, and looked much more active than most Lakers. He drove into the paint and hit a couple of tough shots against the San Antonio defense. I can't understand why Phil didn't reward him with more playing time, because aside from Bynum, Barnes was one of L.A.'s positive influences last night on both sides of the court. In fact, every time I see this guy he seems to be consistently doing good things for L.A., making me wonder why he's relegated so often to the end of the bench.

Andrew Bynum A-
Really, how could you ask much more of this guy? He hit all 4 of the shots he took. He attacked on offense. He had nearly as many boards as Odom and Gasol in far fewer minutes. Phil says he's a step slow and so he's not playing him as much, but if anything I thought he was much more assertive at rotating to the ball than Gasol was last night. Bynum gets docked to an A because he only had one foul, meaning he should have been more aggressive, and down to an A- because of his Shaq-like line at the stripe: 2-8, the only Laker to miss from the free throw line, yet because of his struggles the team shot a collective 16-22. Yikes. Popovich is undoubtedly rubbing his hands, plotting in the playoffs to go with his vaunted, "Hack-a-Bynum" strategy, or perhaps the less well-known "Chop-a-Drew". Also of note, high school BBall coaches everywhere are busting their clipboards as their players think, "Wow, I can make it to the NBA without ever learning to shoot free throws!"

Derrick Caracter, Joe Smith, and Luke Walton: B+
Managing just 3 minutes between them (well, all allotted to a guy that I didn't even know played for the Lakers in Caracter), the trio of unsung superstars actually didn't do anything to hurt the Lakers last night. Caracter had 5 points in 3 minutes of play even, proving he's already a more effective scorer than Kobe.

Phil Jackson D-
Really, I'm not sure I can give Phil a grade for this game, because it was obvious as soon as the game started that #24 was the one in control of the Lakeshow. Still, Phil should be heavily critiqued for his coaching job last night. Failing to throw an early reign on Bryant, he let Bean single-handedly destroy any offensive rhythm the Lakers might have had, then didn't play the guys who actually seemed like they wanted to be on the court. More PT to Barnes and Bynum, and the Lakers might have kept the lead to single digits and had a shot in the 4th. Phil was completely outcoached by Popovich here, as his team could not deal with the frenetic speed and rotating D the Spurs used all night to frustrate and confuse the Lakers starters.


EDIT: Changed Barnes from B- to a B+, added some content.

Fucking awesome, man! You should really think about doing quick grades for the opposing team more often, you have untapped potential.:toast

[Fabbs]

[SIZE="5"]
Tiago Splitter C
When Tiago Splitter signed, his ability to help negate the Lakers size advantage was hyped. In the first go-around, it didn’t really work out as planned. He had trouble scoring or rebounding against the length. On the post, the Lakers were most comfortable when Splitter was on the court. Splitter had a couple nice plays but it was mostly a night to forget for the big Brazilian.
timvp liked your recap grades but disagree on Splitter.
I thought at least two of the fouls called on Splitter were pure b.s. calls, the ones we are used to the Fakers being gifted. I hope this is not a disturbing trend which will render Splitter ineffective vs the Lackers, but it is a thought and certainly part of the fabric of Laker *winning* ways.

Splitters 1st shot attempt was an obvious Flagrant on Bynum. Bynums clotheline swipe of Splitters neck did not come within a foot of the basketball. Not even a remote attempt by Bynum to get the ball.
After the fts, very next trip back on D.....

Foul call #1:
Bon Bon tries to front Gasoft and ball is passed right over Bonny to Gasoft 5 ft from the rim. So Splitter leaves his man to give weakside help guarding the rim. Sure looks like Splitter got all ball and/or hand (and since "hand is part of the ball") on a seemingly clean block by Splitter which caused Gasoft to lose the ball to Ginobili. Tweet! Splitter is introduced to "Laker reffing" a mere 60 seconds into his Spurs V Lakers career! :lol

Foul 2
Score 27-19. Simple battle for position with Bynum and Splitter doing the NBA big dance where offensive guy tries to bump defender by sticking his ass into his midsection and Splitter thrusts back. (try not to get too turned on board homos) Good No call made, they seperate. Now Bynum tries to shuffle into the lane and does shuffle right into Splitter who apprears completely set. Tweet! foul on Splitter for impedeing. :lol Whatever...

Foul #3:
27-24. After a sweet assed block of Gasol, Splitter gets trying to stop Gasol from catching a pass down the middle of the lane by having his left hand around Gasofts waste. Bad D by Splitter, good call.

Foul 4 was in garbage time I dont even recall.

So while maybe a C is appropriate, some real fertilizer reffing offset Splitters debut vs Fakerville. I like the disruptions Splitter makes on D.

[angelbelow]

Watched the game at a sports bar in LA, must admit, couldn't follow the game that closely, too much going on. Thanks for the recap.

[Cessation]

Yes, those were fair grades for the lakers.

[Capt Bringdown]

Looking at the 12/22 Denver game, Splitter was cutting to the basket and benefiting from some nifty Parker passes off of penetration. I know the Lakers have historically shut down Parker in the lane, but last night showed that that tactic may not be effective this year.

At any rate, it's clear Splitter is better at cutting to the basket than posting up. I hope the Spurs continue to work this angle as the season rolls on.

I'd have to re-watch the tape, but Splitter's touches were from post ups in the Laker game?

[DMC]

It's been obvious for many many years that Phil has never had control of his team. The all star always runs the show, Phil just makes suggestions in a fortune cookie way.

I have mixed feelings about the "keep shooting" approach. I favor it heavily, but many will attack someone who keeps shooting with poor results.

Obviously Kobe didn't get the rest of the team involved, but he did keep shooting. Had he been hitting, we would have been in trouble.

So, there's a difference between "keep taking the open look" and "keep forcing the ball up there contested, screw the team". The 2nd was Kobe's approach. He was miffed at the team, and it showed. They played much differently tonight and the results reflect that.

[team-work]

Quick Grades: Spurs vs. Lakers (http://www.sanantoniodispatch.com/san-antonio-spurs/spurs-grades/quick-grades-spurs-vs-lakers/)
Tim Duncan D
If you told me before the game that Tim Duncan would score two points and pull down four rebounds on 1-for-7 shooting in 29 minutes, I’d ask how many points the Lakers won by. Thankfully, the Spurs were able to overcome Duncan’s difficult night. They did so by basically going away from him and limiting his touches. Duncan simply couldn’t do anything against the length of the Lakers on the offensive end. Defensively, he was better. He defended the post well, played good team defense and ran the court. However, his lack of defensive boards wasn’t helping matters.


From the context, it seems Duncan is healthy at least. And that is reassuring despite his recent slump.

[ShoogarBear]

It's been obvious for many many years that Phil has never had control of his team. The all star always runs the show, Phil just makes suggestions in a fortune cookie way.

Surely you're joking. You think Kobe's leadership got them those last two titles?

[jjktkk]

Surely you're joking. You think Kobe's leadership got them those last two titles?

Not really. I question Kobe's leadership. Hes hot and cold as far as leadership IMO.

[Rummpd]

I believe the Splitter grade is too low. He got absolutely abused IMO by the refs on some spurious fouls but fronted Bynum as effectively as anyone could - Bynum just showed some real skill in scoring over him and Splitter also made one of the prettiest passes of the year for inside to (of all people) Udoka. He also had a nice block in limited minutes.

Just having a true additional real big in there early on was nice and even though the LAL went on a run they were hitting contested shots and I personally believe Splitter should be in the B- to B range.

[Agloco]

It's been obvious for many many years that Phil has never had control of his team. The all star always runs the show, Phil just makes suggestions in a fortune cookie way.

Even if this was true, who can argue with the results?

[DMC]

Surely you're joking. You think Kobe's leadership got them those last two titles?
I think Pau Gasol got them the last two titles. There's a difference between leader and instructor.

Phil couldn't quell the Shaq/Kobe situation, quit shortly afterward and now cannot control Kobe. Pop would have pulled Kobe's ass out of the game after that first volley of quick shots.

With Phil, Kobe runs how he wants. If Kobe wants to get a lot of points, he doesn't pass, but he still gets minutes. If Kobe wants to win, he passes the ball around. Phil just accepts it and makes comments on it. Pop would act, Phil doesn't.

When has Phil ever yanked his star out of the game? I've seen Pop pull Tony and Manu out, yelling at them in the process and telling them to get on the bench. I've never seen Phil do anything like that.

[DMC]

Even if this was true, who can argue with the results?
No one can.

I would like to take the worst coach in the league and put him in charge of the Lakers. His results would probably be about the same as Phil's results.

I would like to put Phil in charge of the worst team in the league to see what improvements he could make. I would bet that his improvements would include bringing in two or three all stars and shitcanning the other guys.

Phil's not so much a coach as an architect.

http://cvirus.foolab.org/wp-content/1.gif

[Spurs7794]

No one can.

I would like to take the worst coach in the league and put him in charge of the Lakers. His results would probably be about the same as Phil's results.

I would like to put Phil in charge of the worst team in the league to see what improvements he could make. I would bet that his improvements would include bringing in two or three all stars and shitcanning the other guys.

Phil's not so much a coach as an architect.

Its ridiculous how much some people bash other teams' coaches and players accomplishments. You put Vinny Del Negro in charge of the Lakers and no FUCKING way they come anywhere close to how the Lakers do. Phil probably isnt a good coach for a bad team...but Pop probably wouldn't be all that great either. Pop thrives on a team that feeds off a winning culture and doesn't take shortcuts...shit teams do that all the time and Pop would go crazy.

[DMC]

Sorry, Pop and the Spurs organization build teams. They don't beg borrow and steal players from other teams.

Spolestra's situation in Miami is a good example. Great players can make a coach look great. Look at the situation Don Nelson left for Avery Johnson. The Spurs didn't go out and make blockbuster trades for big name players. No one ever heard of 2 of their big 3 prior to the draft. When has Phil Jackson ever won a championship with players he developed?

When Pop and RC trade the farm to get Howard and Anthony, then we can compare.

Phil had Kobe, Shaq, Karl Malone, Gary Peyton and, i think, Derrick Fisher. They couldn't beat a Detroit team full of decent players.

Vinny could have sat on the bench and watched Shaq dunk, but I don't know if he could have swung that shady deal for Pau.

[ShoogarBear]

Wow. Any other coach could have done what Phil Jackson did. Just wow.

[Cry Havoc]

Fucking awesome, man! You should really think about doing quick grades for the opposing team more often, you have untapped potential.:toast

Thanks. :tu Maybe I'll start adding these to TimVP's threads once in a while, if I keep getting good responses.

There is a big game with Dallas tonight... hmmmm. :stirpot:

--

As for Phil, I've always viewed him more of a psychologist than a coach. He goes to ultra-talented teams full of chemistry problems, and gets them to play together while stroking their... egos... then sits back and watches them win titles. Phil is a fantastic coach, but he's also had the liberty of cherry-picking the teams to manage. I mean... Jordan, Pippen, Shaq, Kobe, Gasol... how many coaches in NBA history do you think ever had a Pippen on their team one time, let alone be the 4th best player they ever coached. Think about that for a minute. So yes, he's a great coach, but it needs to be put into perspective. If Gasol doesn't go to L.A., Phil is still polishing his last LOB in 2003.

Part of me thinks that Phil runs an offense like the triangle simply because it's so convoluted that his stars are too busy wondering where they need to be on the floor next, as opposed to how many points they have. :lol

[DMC]

Wow. Any other coach could have done what Phil Jackson did. Just wow.
I don't think any other coach could have done everything Phil did. I think Phil was very intelligent in accepting the jobs with the conditions he stipulated.

Just name some players he's developed. He didn't develop Jordan or Kobe. Name someone he's mentored. Tell me a player who considers Phil to be what the Spurs consider Pop to be.

Do you think Vinny could coach the Heat to the record they have today?

[jjktkk]

thanks. :tu maybe i'll start adding these to timvp's threads once in a while, if i keep getting good responses.

There is a big game with dallas tonight... Hmmmm. :stirpot:

--

as for phil, i've always viewed him more of a psychologist than a coach. He goes to ultra-talented teams full of chemistry problems, and gets them to play together while stroking their... Egos... Then sits back and watches them win titles. Phil is a fantastic coach, but he's also had the liberty of cherry-picking the teams to manage. I mean... Jordan, pippen, shaq, kobe, gasol... How many coaches in nba history do you think ever had a pippen on their team one time, let alone be the 4th best player they ever coached. Think about that for a minute. So yes, he's a great coach, but it needs to be put into perspective. If gasol doesn't go to l.a., phil is still polishing his last lob in 2003.

Part of me thinks that phil runs an offense like the triangle simply because it's so convoluted that his stars are too busy wondering where they need to be on the floor next, as opposed to how many points they have. :lol

+1

[DMC]

Jackson also protects himself by not coaching teams that he thinks cannot win relatively soon. When he returned to the Lakers in 2007, they soon after acquired Pau Gasol. That makes you wonder if that deal was in the works, and Phil was given that information prior to signing.

[Mel_13]

Jackson also protects himself by not coaching teams that he thinks cannot win relatively soon. When he returned to the Lakers in 2007, they soon after acquired Pau Gasol. That makes you wonder if that deal was in the works, and Phil was given that information prior to signing.

Didn't happen that way.

PJ returned to LA for the start of the 05-06 season. The 05-06 and 06-07 teams were both knocked out in the first round. Gasol was acquired halfway through the third season of Jackson's current stint with the Lakers.

[ShoogarBear]

Since he's done so much cherry picking . . . what did the Bulls and Lakers do before he got there?

[Capt Bringdown]

I would like to take the worst coach in the league and put him in charge of the Lakers. His results would probably be about the same as Phil's results.

Seems to me that if you believe this, then you must necessarily dismiss all of what Coach Pop has accomplished with the Spurs.

Shame on you.

[jjktkk]

PJ is a great coach. But I consider his tenure with the Bulls to be greater than with the Lakers.