NBA.com Blogtable: Better team – Mavs or Spurs?

[duncan228]

Hit the link for video:

The Beat: San Antonio Spurs (http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2010/12/29/blogtable-better-team-mavs-or-spurs/): Spurs General Manager R.C. Buford joins The Beat on the state of the Spurs and their best start in franchise history.


Blogtable: Better team – Mavs or Spurs? (http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2010/12/29/blogtable-better-team-mavs-or-spurs/)

Play along: If one of these teams is going to the NBA Finals, will it be the Mavs or Spurs?

David Aldridge: I love the Spurs right now. (Emphasis on “right now.” See Question/Answer #1.) What they’re doing now that they haven’t been able to do, maybe ever during their run, is avoid those long scoreless streaks that put so much pressure on their defense to hold everyone under 90 every night. That’s hard to do in this era, with the rules and Duncan’s declining effectiveness. I know Pop thinks the D is mediocre, and maybe it is by San Antonio’s standards. But it can still be pretty good, especially if George Hill can stay healthy.

Steve Aschburner: Spurs. What we’re seeing in San Antonio isn’t just a start to the season anymore, it’s the season, period. That makes what the Spurs are doing all the more real, and it puts more onus on them to make sure this leads to something satisfying at the end. Beyond that, I just think they’re built better for the postseason and the competition out West. When a San Antonio team can win getting only modest (or less) production out of Tim Duncan, that team has plenty in reserve and ready options. Dallas is doing a great job, but we’ve been forced to choose and I choose Spurs.

Fran Blinebury: I like them both, but will give the very slight edge to the Spurs, especially if they can keep Tim Duncan’s minutes way down during the regular season in order to produce in the playoffs. Manu Ginobili deserves MVP mention and Tony Parker is healthy and on the attack. I like the way they are running more on offense and have a roster full of 3-point shooters that has been difficult to defend. While Dallas has already shown the depth of its team, the Spurs can still improve when they rookie James Anderson back onto the floor and rookie Tiago Splitter becomes more integrated into the rotation. What is already a great rivalry could climb to new heights with a playoff meeting this season.

Art Garcia: Wouldn’t it be nice if we had BCS standings in the NBA and both went if they finished 1 and 2? Scratch that idea. We don’t need another BCS. This is like choosing between modern-day Elizabeth Banks and Cocktail-era Elizabeth Shue. I’m going with the squad that’s playing the better defense. The one that has more of an inside presence. The one with the better power forward. Yes, in a complete role reversal, the Dallas Mavericks. (Toronto loss notwithstanding.)

Scott Howard-Cooper: Very slight edge to the Spurs because of their championship experience. They are more dependable that time of the year. But what a fun matchup if it comes to be. Dallas with improved interior defense, San Antonio with terrific guard play – good stuff.

Shaun Powell: Love what the Mavericks are doing defensively, and how Jason Kidd, Jason Terry and Dirk Nowitzki, men of a certain age, are ignoring physical logic. This is a very good team, a very veteran team, a very capable team. But, c’mon. You know Tim Duncan’s alarm clock is set to mid-April.

John Schuhmann: It would be an easy call if you just started watching the NBA on Tuesday. But I don’t think there’s a real clear answer. Both are top 10 on both ends of the floor. Dallas has been better defensively, while San Antonio has been better offensively. Dallas is deeper, while San Antonio has the stronger track record. I’ll give a slight edge to the Spurs, because they’ve got the advantage in the standings at this point, and I feel like they’ll end up being just as good as the Mavs defensively when push comes to shove.

Sekou Smith: With their history and this being an odd numbered year, the safe money is on the Spurs. They are leading the league right now. But my gut tells me this Mavericks team could make some bigger noise in the playoffs. Tyson Chandler changes the game for them in the middle, giving them the defensive backbone they’ve lacked in recent years. They are playing better defense and they have better depth than any other team in the Western Conference, Boston’s the only team that can go deeper into its bench.

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2010/12/29/blogtable-better-team-mavs-or-spurs/

[in2deep]

this guy nailed it:
David Aldridge: I love the Spurs right now. (Emphasis on “right now.” See Question/Answer #1.) What they’re doing now that they haven’t been able to do, maybe ever during their run, is avoid those long scoreless streaks that put so much pressure on their defense to hold everyone under 90 every night. That’s hard to do in this era, with the rules and Duncan’s declining effectiveness. I know Pop thinks the D is mediocre, and maybe it is by San Antonio’s standards. But it can still be pretty good, especially if George Hill can stay healthy.

[Rummpd]

Spurs bench is very, very deep when Dice does not even play vs. Lakers and Anderson not even healthy. Silly arguements above on those favoring Dallas and bench strength.

[spurspokesman]

When Duncan can score 2 points and Mcdyess sits and we blow away the lakers I say spurs. But Dallas always give us there best.

[spurspokesman]

Chris Broussard is an annoying individual. He might be lakerluva lol

[Hooks]

This Spurs team is pretty far from peaking, that's something these guys fail to understand. Our only back up SF on the roster has been out all season long (JA), he'll be a massive upgrade over the 6'4 SG Neal in terms of defense. Splitter has yet to be integrated as well...

[GSH]

The Mavericks bench is longer than ours, not deeper.

Dallas' bench includes: Brian Cardinal, Alexis Ajinca, Dominique Jones, Steve Novak, and Ian Mahinmi. None of whom could have made the Spurs roster this season. (And let me head off the French contingent by saying that they both have great potential, but no numbers to back it up with yet. Satisfied?) They also have a spotty Brendan Haywood, and a pretty worthless DeShawn Stevenson - if he wasn't having a career season (by far) from the 3P line. I wouldn't want to be counting on either of those guys in the playoffs. That's 7 players from their roster that range from half-assed to nearly worthless.


Edit: I should finish this.

If you look 8 deep, the Mavs have some really good talent. Dirk is Dirk. Kidd, Barea, Terry, and Beaubois - pretty good collection of guards if they are all healthy. Caron Butler and Tyson Chandler - check. He's not the old Sean Marion, but he's still pretty damned good. If they can win in the playoffs with that rotation, they're in pretty good shape. Beaubois is out. They can't afford any more injuries out of that group.

The suggestion that their bench is deeper than the Spurs is laughable, if you don't understand that a lot of the people who commented don't really follow the Spurs.

[wildbill2u]

Dirk out (day to day) and the short handed Toronto bunch beat the Mavs last night. I think this may show a basic weakness on the Mavs. Can they win without a full out effort from Nowitski?

We just showed we could beat the Lakers without Manu and Tim playing well. We don't want to play without them--and probably wouldn't succeed if they were gone for long--but the game showed we do have depth and some other arrows in the quiver.

Mavs are older than we are. Dirk (11 seasons) and Kidd (16) are still rolling but take them out with injury and Mavs are seriously impaired. I doubt they have the depth to contend over the long season as well as we do.

Come playoff time it will depend on who's healthiest and has the reserves ready to step in and play a significant role. It could look like one of the Rocky movies with each team delivering blows that would stagger any other mortal team.

[boutons_deux]

no "long scoreless streaks"??

How about 2nd qtr vs Lakers?

[GSH]

Dirk out (day to day) and the short handed Toronto bunch beat the Mavs last night. I think this may show a basic weakness on the Mavs. Can they win without a full out effort from Nowitski?

We just showed we could beat the Lakers without Manu and Tim playing well. We don't want to play without them--and probably wouldn't succeed if they were gone for long--but the game showed we do have depth and some other arrows in the quiver.

Mavs are older than we are. Dirk (11 seasons) and Kidd (16) are still rolling but take them out with injury and Mavs are seriously impaired. I doubt they have the depth to contend over the long season as well as we do.

Come playoff time it will depend on who's healthiest and has the reserves ready to step in and play a significant role. It could look like one of the Rocky movies with each team delivering blows that would stagger any other mortal team.

It's not just Dirk. I know I posted it just above, but the Mavs can't afford an injury (or an off night, really) from any of those top 7 players. If Anderson comes back 100% from his injury, the Spurs have the best bench in the league. And they are tough. I don't think that any of them are the kind that will faint under playoff pressure. All the way down to Chris Quinn.

The one thing I will disagree with you on is that even when they aren't playing well, having Tim and Manu on the floor is different from having them in street cloths. We didn't win that game without Tim and Manu. I understand what you're getting at. But Dirk on the floor, even on a bad night, is a lot better than Dirk on the bench.

[Ginobili2Duncan]

The difference between both teams is the play of the two franchise players. Nowitzki has led to a 24-6 record with an MVP type of season. Meanwhile, the Spurs currently have the best record in the NBA, despite the fact that Duncan is averaging a career low in minutes.

[ElNono]

What's a Blogtable?

[Agloco]

John Schuhmann: It would be an easy call if you just started watching the NBA on Tuesday. But I don’t think there’s a real clear answer. Both are top 10 on both ends of the floor. Dallas has been better defensively, while San Antonio has been better offensively. Dallas is deeper, while San Antonio has the stronger track record. I’ll give a slight edge to the Spurs, because they’ve got the advantage in the standings at this point, and I feel like they’ll end up being just as good as the Mavs defensively when push comes to shove.

Sekou Smith: With their history and this being an odd numbered year, the safe money is on the Spurs. They are leading the league right now. But my gut tells me this Mavericks team could make some bigger noise in the playoffs. Tyson Chandler changes the game for them in the middle, giving them the defensive backbone they’ve lacked in recent years. They are playing better defense and they have better depth than any other team in the Western Conference, Boston’s the only team that can go deeper into its bench.

Um no.....

Upon Andersons return the Spurs are 11 deep with the lone exception(s) being Quinn and maybe Udoka(who will be inactive anyway).

All of our bigs are rotation players, so are all of our guards save Quinn and possibly Anderson initially.

The Spurs have the deepest bench in the league and it's not even close.

[Agloco]

no "long scoreless streaks"??

How about 2nd qtr vs Lakers?

How about not in the 4th quarter when it matters? That's the real difference.

[ohmwrecker]

What's a Blogtable?

It's like a roundtable, but blog-shaped.

[ShoogarBear]

Yeah, I don't get all the {Dallas, Boston, LA} is deeper comments. At the beginning of the year, before we knew what Neal and Anderson had to offer, sure. But presuming Splitter and Anderson continue to develop and establish minutes, nobody will be deeper 1-11.

Of course, in the playoffs 1-8 depth is far more important than 1-11 depth, but that's another argument.

[VI_Massive]

It's like a roundtable, but blog-shaped.

Oh no, I think it IS a round table, just one at which many bloggers are seated.

[GSH]

Yeah, I don't get all the {Dallas, Boston, LA} is deeper comments. At the beginning of the year, before we knew what Neal and Anderson had to offer, sure. But presuming Splitter and Anderson continue to develop and establish minutes, nobody will be deeper 1-11.

Of course, in the playoffs 1-8 depth is far more important than 1-11 depth, but that's another argument.


That's usually the case, but I wonder. I've been saying for a while that I don't think Pop is going to shorten his rotations in the playoffs, the way he has always done before. He usually goes with the guys he has confidence in, but I really believe that his confidence goes pretty far down the bench this year. And why shouldn't it?

It's no secret that the Spurs have increased their pace drastically. They can keep fresh legs on the floor, and their subs are capable of keeping the pressure on the other team. There have been times in the past that the Spurs subs came in, and the offense ground to a halt. This bunch can make it rain.

I don't think that our second string could keep up with other playoff teams' starters. But they can hold down the fort against them. Enough that the other teams will have to keep their starters on the floor, or risk getting swamped. I think we could see a very tired Dirk Nowitzki (and Jason Kidd) in some fourth quarters. Because I think the Mavs are really a 1-7 team, and not even a 1-8 team.

The other thing I think is a big deal is that we have some guys on our bench who are capable of a lot more than solid minutes. We've got guys who, on any given night, can go off for big numbers. And with some consistency, not just on fluke nights. There's Tiago Splitter who is virtually unused right now. Would anyone be surprised if he put up 18-10 in a game? It wouldn't even raise any eyebrows, except from the people saying he should be getting more floor time.

Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but I can't remember a team that was any more explosive than this one. It used to be that I didn't feel like any Spurs lead was big enough - they would find a way to make it a tight game by the end. Now I don't feel like any hole is deep enough.

I think with this bench, and the quicker pace, we are going to be able to grind a lot of good teams down. And I think it is exactly Dallas' lack of depth that will be their downfall, except when their starters play the perfect game.

[DesignatedT]

and I feel like they’ll end up being just as good as the Mavs defensively when push comes to shove.

This.

[ohmwrecker]

Oh no, I think it IS a round table, just one at which many bloggers are seated.

Really?!

[ElNono]

It's like a roundtable, but blog-shaped.

Any similarities with a Blogosphere? :wakeup

[TE]

That's usually the case, but I wonder. I've been saying for a while that I don't think Pop is going to shorten his rotations in the playoffs, the way he has always done before. He usually goes with the guys he has confidence in, but I really believe that his confidence goes pretty far down the bench this year. And why shouldn't it?

It's no secret that the Spurs have increased their pace drastically. They can keep fresh legs on the floor, and their subs are capable of keeping the pressure on the other team. There have been times in the past that the Spurs subs came in, and the offense ground to a halt. This bunch can make it rain.

I don't think that our second string could keep up with other playoff teams' starters. But they can hold down the fort against them. Enough that the other teams will have to keep their starters on the floor, or risk getting swamped. I think we could see a very tired Dirk Nowitzki (and Jason Kidd) in some fourth quarters. Because I think the Mavs are really a 1-7 team, and not even a 1-8 team.

The other thing I think is a big deal is that we have some guys on our bench who are capable of a lot more than solid minutes. We've got guys who, on any given night, can go off for big numbers. And with some consistency, not just on fluke nights. There's Tiago Splitter who is virtually unused right now. Would anyone be surprised if he put up 18-10 in a game? It wouldn't even raise any eyebrows, except from the people saying he should be getting more floor time.

Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but I can't remember a team that was any more explosive than this one. It used to be that I didn't feel like any Spurs lead was big enough - they would find a way to make it a tight game by the end. Now I don't feel like any hole is deep enough.

I think with this bench, and the quicker pace, we are going to be able to grind a lot of good teams down. And I think it is exactly Dallas' lack of depth that will be their downfall, except when their starters play the perfect game.

Damn good piece right there.

[ohmwrecker]

Any similarities with a Blogosphere? :wakeup
It's obviously spherical, but bloggish topographically.

[ShoogarBear]

That's usually the case, but I wonder. I've been saying for a while that I don't think Pop is going to shorten his rotations in the playoffs, the way he has always done before. He usually goes with the guys he has confidence in, but I really believe that his confidence goes pretty far down the bench this year. And why shouldn't it?

Well, it's not just Pop. That's standard NBA dogma. And it makes sense: in-game pace is slower, there's more time in-between games, starters' MPG go up, and so there' less bench time. So unless your 9-11 guys can keep pace with the other teams' 6-8 guys, why play them?

The last team I can recall that won by taking advantage of their depth in the playoffs was the 1975 Warriors (10 guys averaged more than 10 MPG, only one averaged more than 30 MPG).


It's no secret that the Spurs have increased their pace drastically. They can keep fresh legs on the floor, and their subs are capable of keeping the pressure on the other team. There have been times in the past that the Spurs subs came in, and the offense ground to a halt. This bunch can make it rain.

I think it's a given that pace will go down in the playoffs. Even the Suns had to slow down.


There's Tiago Splitter who is virtually unused right now. Would anyone be surprised if he put up 18-10 in a game? With the offensive skills I've seen, yeah I would be shocked by 18 from him in a playoff game. But that's besides your point.

Yes, any of end-of-the-bench guys are capable of a big game. But coaches in the playoffs would rather go with known consistency than having to play guys a few minutes just to see what they've got that night. And I see Pop probably going nine deep, with the 8-9 guys rotating between any number of different players/positions (Neal, Anderson, Splitter, Dice: I think Bonner is going to be firmly ensconced in the top 7).


Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but I can't remember a team that was any more explosive than this one. It used to be that I didn't feel like any Spurs lead was big enough - they would find a way to make it a tight game by the end. Now I don't feel like any hole is deep enough.

Yeah, that's definitely an exaggeration. Going back to the example of the mid-2000s Suns, their secondary problem (to lack of defense/rebounding) was that D'Antoni didn't use their depth during the regular season, so guys like Grant Hill were worn out by the playoffs. So again, depth during the regular season is a great thing if only because it allows you to have a rested shortened rotation in the playoffs.

Pop is not trying to reinvent playoff basketball. He's not going to come out trying to push the pace and play a five-man bench. He's made clear that he wants to see more of what's won him the other four rings.

[ElNono]

It's obviously spherical, but bloggish topographically.

A sphere shaped table is pretty useless, tbh

[SenorSpur]

I think with this bench, and the quicker pace, we are going to be able to grind a lot of good teams down. And I think it is exactly Dallas' lack of depth that will be their downfall, except when their starters play the perfect game.

On the contrary, the Mavs roster is deep too. They have lots of talent, as their roster is comprised with guys that have been regular rotation players in the NBA, at one time or another. Players like Deshawn Stevenson, Shawn Marion, Brendan Haywood have all been starters before. To their credit, there doesn't appear to be any outward moaning about playing time.

While the Mavs have a lot of household names on their stacked roster, the problem is they may not be the best fit. I think the Spurs role players are better suited because, unlike the Mavs bench, their roles are clearly defined.

[Kent_in_Atlanta]

Sekou Smith: "...they (Mavericks) have better depth than any other team in the Western Conference, Boston’s the only team that can go deeper into its bench."

Not possible. No team in the NBA has BETTER depth than the Spurs right now.

1-POINT: Parker, Hill, Quinn (and Ginobili, for all intents and purposes)

2-Guard: Ginobili, Neal, Hill, and soon... J.Anderson

3-Small Forward: Jefferson, Ginobili, Udoka

3/4-Pwr Forward/Center: Duncan, Blair, Bonner, McDyess, Splitter

This is the deepest team the Spurs have ever had, and there isn't a deeper team in the league right now. Maybe the Celtics or Mavs are AS deep. Maybe not. But no one is deeper.

.

[GSH]

Yes, any of end-of-the-bench guys are capable of a big game. But coaches in the playoffs would rather go with known consistency than having to play guys a few minutes just to see what they've got that night. And I see Pop probably going nine deep, with the 8-9 guys rotating between any number of different players/positions (Neal, Anderson, Splitter, Dice: I think Bonner is going to be firmly ensconced in the top 7).




Good, reasonable responses. I can't argue with most of them, except to say that time will tell.

The only thing I question is that you mentioned Neal, Anderson, Splitter, and Dice. I assume you are including Hill as well as Bonner in that top 7. That's 11 guys that all have a legitimate shot at getting meaningful minutes in the playoffs. That's pretty deep for a Greg Popovich team. Maybe it will only be 8-9 on any given night. Maybe not. But once the Mavs go beyond their top 7 players, they are in a world of hurt. Agree? Disagree? Anyone... anyone... Beuller?

The other big wild card is Tim. I'm hopeful he will be the old Tim Duncan in the playoffs. But if he's having a game like last night against the Lakers, will Pop have enough confidence to go deeper into this bench? Damn betcha he will.

The one other big thing is that the Suns got all their points on the run... 8 seconds or less. They were gazelles. They only had two speeds - Full Sprint and Dinner. What I said was that the Spurs are explosive. There's a difference. And if you think about it for a minute, you'll know it's true.

Yeah, the pace slows down some in the playoffs. And Pop still wants the Spurs to play better defense. But if you think he isn't committed to the off-season changes, and that we're going to go back to the plodding 4-down offense from years past, I think you're way off base. The faster pace plays to the strengths of this roster. And the ability to keep fresh legs on the floor will be an advantage against the Mavs.

My opinion, and we can agree to disagree. But I think Pop understands that this team is no longer a bulldozer that only runs through Tim Duncan. Knowing that, what else can they do? They playoffs aren't going to change that.

[GSH]

On the contrary, the Mavs roster is deep too. They have lots of talent, as their roster is comprised with guys that have been regular rotation players in the NBA, at one time or another. Players like Deshawn Stevenson, Shawn Marion, Brendan Haywood have all been starters before. To their credit, there doesn't appear to be any outward moaning about playing time.


Outside of their top 7, Dallas has problems.

Marion is one of the top 7.

DeShawn Stevenson is shooting 3's right now. It won't last. He averaged 2.2 and 2.0 ppg the two years before this, and shot .177 and .320 from the 3P line. (.271 the year before that). Remember I said it first - his 3P shooting won't last. And it won't hold up in the playoffs.

The only place I might be too harsh is Brendan Haywood. He's a plowhorse, but maybe his numbers would be better with more minutes. But McDyess will eat his lunch.

Beyond that, their bench is crap.

[ohmwrecker]

A sphere shaped table is pretty useless, tbh

A blogosphere is not a table. Although, I suppose a blogosphere could contain blogtables inside it's atmosphere on a flat surface depending on level of gravity and the carpentry skills of it's inhabitants.

[SenorSpur]

Outside of their top 7, Dallas has problems.

Agree. Dallas has continued their standard philosophy of assembling a bunch of names, with no thought as to how those parts fit together. It's a flawed, short-sighted approach and one that they've even implemented with their D-League team.

[Supergirl]

Yeah, Spurs have a better bench, and are likely to get better as the season goes on (because that's what they've done every other year, because TD's minutes have been so limited for post season use). Mavs are hot now but Dirk is already injured, and they may find themselves wearing him out come postseason, much like Utah is likely to find with Deron Williams except D-Will is a lot younger than Dirk is.

[100%duncan]

This is great but I want the Spurs to be under the radar inspite of the record and stuff. I think our team is more comfortable not being in the spotlight. JUST SAYIN

[DieHardSpursFan1537]

Shaun Powell: Love what the Mavericks are doing defensively, and how Jason Kidd, Jason Terry and Dirk Nowitzki, men of a certain age, are ignoring physical logic. This is a very good team, a very veteran team, a very capable team. But, c’mon. You know Tim Duncan’s alarm clock is set to mid-April.