Tiago Splitter's Flip Shots

[timvp]

What is your opinion on the Tiago Splitter flip shots he unleashes in the lane? It's unorthodox, to say the least, to see a seven-footer try such shots in the NBA.

Do you think these shots are too soft and he needs to remove them from his repertoire to thrive at this level? Or, do you think these are crafty shots that are good to use in the right circumstances?

Question.

[VBM]

Dude passed on at least two dunks to do the flip BS...both either got blocked or missed badly. You can def. tell he's thinking too much out there.

[mingus]

it looks retarded. agains the bigs in the NBA, he's going to get it blocked. Bynum blocked the shit out of him. he's going to have to refine his offensive game a lot.

[DesignatedT]

its weak.

[Cane]

It seems like one of his signature shots he's developed so maybe he shouldn't abandon it completely but instead refine it in the offseason or develop it in conjunction with other moves since he seems to have great footwork. It does look easily blocked though by NBA standards..

I don't think Tiago's game can change too much until he gets more time on the court and until he trains in the upcoming offseason. Especially since he was dealing with injuries and fatigue earlier. He's probably at the point where the Spurs just want him to play and show his stuff since he's had to have made so many lifestyle changes already.

Hopefully Duncan can show him how its done in the NBA! I think Tiago has a ton of potential but unfortunately he probably won't truly shine until the next season when he'll have more opportunities with Dice retired, a year in the system, and working with the Spurs in the offseason. I think Tiago can still be a decent defensive-minded big though for this one, especially when it comes to charges.

[pjjrfan]

He needs work on his offensive game. he has good footwork, and is quick and agile, but tonight he got schooled big time on the nuances of the NBA big mans game.

[MullinFan]

There were a few of those I just wished he would throw em down... maybe he is more of a finesse player?

[Kori Ellis]

Too soft to use against most teams with a decent big. He has to go up with some more power.

[mingus]

He needs work on his offensive game. he has good footwork, and is quick and agile, but tonight he got schooled big time on the nuances of the NBA big mans game.

exactly.

i'd rather have his problem be not shooting a hook shot the way it's supposed to be done than not having good footwork or being slow. he does everything right on the low block then puts up his weak flip shot.

he's going to have to release the ball higher, know that if he's anywhere near the rim he should be dunking it or at least go up strong, and also learn how to use his body better (for boards and in the low post).

[ducks]

I think it is crafty and usefully but at times it can be to soft

[UnWantedTheory]

I mentioned this in passing in another thread without a reply. I was wondering why the weird release. To answer the question, I think both. At times I believe that those shots could be effective if utilized properly, but for the most part he needs to slam em' home.

[Trill Clinton]

dem shits is ugly.

He needs a lot of help over the summer to improve his low post game. It is below average to say the least.

[MannyIsGod]

Vlade was the only big I've ever seen use those on a regular basis. Tiago needs to figure out some way to make his shit work but he's so blockable right now for his height its not even funny.

[TD 21]

It takes a while with a lot of the international players. Yao damn near refused to dunk when he came over. Eventually, he got it. Splitter will, too.

Obviously, he needs to start finishing strong. But he also needs to be cognizant of the defensive three second rule. He's not an established, well known name amongst the refs, so already they're going to be quicker to call that on him than a lot of guys.

I'm not the least bit concerned with him overall, though. I could careless about his offense right now, it's just nice to have another 6-11 guy and one who's fairly mobile. He may not be much of a shot blocker or the greatest rebounder, but he's still a presence and deterrent in the paint, because of his size and length.

[KaiRMD1]

Too soft, your a seven footer that needs to finish strong. If he finished strong more often and threw those up once in a blue, I wouldn't care.

[EricB]

Tiago is pretty damn disappointing right now.

At least Nesterovich had a jump shot to fall back on and spread the floor a bit.
He also played pretty solid defense and blocked shots.

Hopefully he improves...

[crc21209]

Soft as hell....

[LaMarcus Bryant]

Softer than charmin. Rather have Mahinmi at the moment.

[Dex]

Unless Tiago can start to understand things so that he can position himself for offensive opportunities like Fabricio Oberto did, those weak chip shots are not going to cut it. We've seen what happens to players who try to finesse it into the basket all the time.

Maybe they should set up a cardboard cut out of Tim and have Tiago dunk on it. :lol

[Sofaking]

Tiago is pretty damn disappointing right now.

At least Nesterovich had a jump shot to fall back on and spread the floor a bit.
He also played pretty solid defense and blocked shots.

Hopefully he improves...


I think I owe Rasho an apology for calling Splitter "Rasho 2.0" Rasho has soft but he had hard and he was a pretty good defender. Not to mention, he could dunk.:downspin:

[xellos88330]

I want to see what they can do when Tiago isn't trying so damned hard. I am undecided until Tiago gets more comfortable.

[Capt Bringdown]

Splitter definitely could use a trip to Pete Newell's Big Man Camp this offseason.
And he could also use a more steady place in the rotation, preferably with the starters.

Obviously at the moment, his post-up game needs needs lots of work. I think he's at his best cutting to the basket, benefiting from Parker's penetration.
So, similar to Blair, his usefulness is limited, but that's not to say he cannot be effective, or that he hasn't had some good games already.

[jag]

They could be really useful but they're really hard to watch. They're so pussified

[Dex]

They could be really useful but they're really hard to watch. They're so pussified

I've never seen a bigman throw floaters from below eye-level. I don't know how that wasn't worked out of his game years ago.

Your advantage is size and length. Use it.

[polandprzem]

He must to get used to different defense in NBA.
And when he will find a way to score with his moves it will get tougher in times and then it gets crafty.

Next test will be Boston or NY game - I predict again McDyess to sit in one of the b2b

[smrattler]

If they were going in, I would say whatever works.

But they aren't going in.

They are getting slapped back in his face too often.

[jag]

I've never seen a bigman throw floaters from below eye-level. I don't know how that wasn't worked out of his game years ago.

Your advantage is size and length. Use it.

I've never seen a SF shoot from his belly button but Shawn Marion put together a decent NBA career.

If Splitter can make it work in the NBA then so be it. But that doesn't mean it's easy to watch...at least not right now.

[ElNono]

The problem for Splitter is that he doesn't have an outside game to complement that. A guy like Scola (Scola thread!) basically lives off footwork and up and under moves when near the paint. You'll rarely see him dunk or use a hook out there. But he has a decent jumper to keep you honest. So he can pump fake and you have to respect the shot.
Tiago just doesn't have that midrange game to complement his post play. I'm afraid he's going to need to develop that kind of shot to eventually be successful long term in this league.

[TimDunkem]

If he's not close to rim then they're fine. They allow him to catch the defense off-guard, but if he's right at the rim he has no business putting up such attempts.

You have to finish those shots.

[Man In Black]

I'm with the "If it's going in, then it's fine" crowd.
It's unorthodox and it's kind of tricky. Unlike Spain, they really do emphasize DEFENSE here so he's going to have become proficient at other moves so that way, he can mix it in when he has the advantage. He has a good drop-step and if his feet are right, he can rise up and dunk it. He needs to perfect his footwork so that he's in control. He's not there yet :/
However, he's a live body and he's giving the Spurs meaningful minutes. Not so much that he's often a key contributor, but just by being active, Tim get's EXTRA minutes of rest on the bench. That used to never happen.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Dear Tiago,

You're having a tough time right now adjusting to the speed, length and strength of NBA big men on offense and the boards. You're also struggling with the Spurs' system a bit, and on the flip-side you're being tagged with an inordinate number of "rookie fouls". Please, don't worry about it. You have great basketball instincts, and if you just concentrate on playing hard nosed-D, hitting the boards, passing to cutters and making your layups, the rest will come. Your countryman Anderson Varejao had similar problems when he first arrived in the NBA and he has become a very useful big man. You will be too. Just stick at it and keep the energy coming.

Yours sincerely,

Ruff

[MI21]

At the moment, they are horrific.

Few big men have used those little soft floaters to their advantage, Antawn Jamison and Pau Gasol come to mind.

Thing is, Gasol is ridiculously long and is releasing the soft little floaters at his peak, the ball is basically going down into the hoop. Antawn uses them to beat help defense after using his agility and speed to beat his defender - completely different situations.

Tiago is using them right in his defenders face after making simple moves and it will never ever work if he isn't extending fully and releasing. He obviously isn't used to playing against guys his size, or slightly smaller, who can leave the ground quickly.

He needs to eradicate them straight away.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

At the moment, they are horrific.

Few big men have used those little soft floaters to their advantage, Antawn Jamison and Pau Gasol come to mind.

Thing is, Gasol is ridiculously long and is releasing the soft little floaters at his peak, the ball is basically going down into the hoop. Antawn uses them to beat help defense after using his agility and speed to beat his defender - completely different situations.

Tiago is using them right in his defenders face after making simple moves and it will never ever work if he isn't extending fully and releasing. He obviously isn't used to playing against guys his size, or slightly smaller, who can leave the ground quickly.

He needs to eradicate them straight away.

My comment was general, but as far as specifics you can't do much better than that explanation. :tu

[DrSteffo]

Tiago had a bad game last night and tried to do too much on O which didn't work but let's not forget he had some good ones earlier. But his finishes close to the basket are too soft and he needs to adjust his game quite a bit.

[lurker23]

Coming into this league, we knew Tiago Splitter's style of play around the basket relied on finesse and was unorthodox. I was one of the people who said that it would be an asset for him in the long run, and I stand by that.

At the moment, he's still trying to feel his way around the league and his role on the Spurs. Give him more time and his confidence will grow, his game will flow better, and those shots will start going in. Should he take the time to add a little more aggressiveness and strength to his game on both ends of the court? Absolutely. But to eliminate Tiago's crafty moves from his repertoire completely would be to take away part of what has made his career so successful.

[ChumpDumper]

At this point, I don't want any plays run for Splitter outside of pick and rolls. Deconstruct and rebuild his post game next summer.

[TJastal]

At this point, I don't want any plays run for Splitter outside of pick and rolls. Deconstruct and rebuild his post game next summer.

I don't think Tiago's game needs a wrecking ball, what it really needs is some TLC from Pop in the form of actual game minutes.

[ChumpDumper]

I don't think Tiago's game needs a wrecking ball, what it really needs is some TLC from Pop in the form of actual game minutes.Of course you think that.

[Ice009]

Of course you think that.

Sean Elliott thinks that too. He wants Tiago to get more consistent playing time.

[TJastal]

TBH I'd be more inclined to say Matt Bonner's shooting mechanics are much more worthy of a wrecking ball than Splitter's post moves.

[ChumpDumper]

TBH I'd be more inclined to say Matt Bonner's shooting mechanics are much more worthy of a wrecking ball than Splitter's post moves.Of course you would think that.

[ChumpDumper]

Sean Elliott thinks that too. He wants Tiago to get more consistent playing time.I do too.

With pick and rolls.

[TDMVPDPOY]

weak as timmays layups

[TJastal]

The problem for Splitter is that he doesn't have an outside game to complement that. A guy like Scola (Scola thread!) basically lives off footwork and up and under moves when near the paint. You'll rarely see him dunk or use a hook out there. But he has a decent jumper to keep you honest. So he can pump fake and you have to respect the shot.
Tiago just doesn't have that midrange game to complement his post play. I'm afraid he's going to need to develop that kind of shot to eventually be successful long term in this league.

Tiago's defense > Scola. I think he could stick in the league even without that midrange jumper. But your right that would open things up bigtime if he had that.

[G-Dawgg]

Tiago is a bust... he can't score, he can't block shots, he can't rebound...what use is he? Pick & roll? Lol... toss him into the Ian Mahinmi pile.....

[Darkwaters]

Too soft to use against most teams with a decent big. He has to go up with some more power.

+1

More authority is needed.

[TJastal]

Tiago is a bust... he can't score, he can't block shots, he can't rebound...what use is he? Pick & roll? Lol... toss him into the Ian Mahinmi pile.....
What games have you been watching, G-dawwg? He defends the paint and blocks/alters a ton of shots. While I wouldn't call him "fluid" around the rim offensively, he's going through an adjustment period that many players from Europe go through as well. I think he just needs steady sprinkles of water and he'll be like the Chia Pet on 'roids by the end of the year.

[Ice009]

I do too.

With pick and rolls.

What do you think Pop is doing with him then? Do you think he has told him anything specific offensively or is he throwing him out there like DeJuan Blair and telling him to figure it out. See what he can and can't get against NBA defenders?

If he is doing that then maybe Pop needs to define his role and tell him to concentrate on defense and rebounds and then run the pick and roll on offense and not post up one on one.

[ChumpDumper]

What do you think Pop is doing with him then? Do you think he has told him anything specific offensively or is he throwing him out there like DeJuan Blair and telling him to figure it out. See what he can and can't get against NBA defenders?

If he is doing that then maybe Pop needs to define his role and tell him to concentrate on defense and rebounds and then run the pick and roll on offense and not post up one on one.Or at least get him to do something other than the flip shot when he does post up. PnR can get a defender out of his way and keep him from resorting to the flip. That's why I bring it up. The weird shit seems to happen more often when he posts up.

[Ice009]

Or at least get him to do something other than the flip shot when he does post up. PnR can get a defender out of his way and keep him from resorting to the flip. That's why I bring it up. The weird shit seems to happen more often when he posts up.

That's the thing it doesn't seem to work much when he posts up. I'm wondering what Pop is telling him in regards to this. You think he's telling him to play his game and see what happens?

I was quite mad at him today though. He went up soft. Kori obviously thought the same thing. He needs to go up way stronger if he's open.

[Rummpd]

He is not a soft player look at all the charges he takes and screens he sets, he just has lost a little confidence right now - he will figure it out.

[Penya]

I'm not optimistic about Tiago this season. I only can see him having some success with pick'n'roll on O.

The main problem is his phisical condition. I've been watching him play for 8 years and I can tell you that he's absolutely exhausted, I've never seen him this bad. He could run the floor, make tough shots, play a pretty decent post game and finish powerfully, even against legit 7ft guys.

I know he's having a hard time, especially having mental mistakes and maybe trying to do too much, but that's just what he was able to do here in Spain -and playing with Brazil NT.

Definitely, I can see a Jefferson-esque evolution on him next year, but not this season, unless he gets significant playing time along with Manu/TP playing P'n'R.

PS- His D has been pretty decent so far except in a couple of games.

[TJastal]

I'm not optimistic about Tiago this season. I only can see him having some success with pick'n'roll on O.

The main problem is his phisical condition. I've been watching him play for 8 years and I can tell you that he's absolutely exhausted, I've never seen him this bad. He could run the floor, make tough shots, play a pretty decent post game and finish powerfully, even against legit 7ft guys.

I know he's having a hard time, especially having mental mistakes and maybe trying to do too much, but that's just what he was able to do here in Spain -and playing with Brazil NT.

Definitely, I can see a Jefferson-esque evolution on him next year, but not this season, unless he gets significant playing time along with Manu/TP playing P'n'R.

PS- His D has been pretty decent so far except in a couple of games.

I don't know if I'd subscribe to this theory. I don't think he's exhausted, rather just out of shape from having such sparce PT all year long. Doesn't help that the spurs have transformed into a run and gun team which probably just exacerbates the situation.

[ChumpDumper]

I don't know if I'd subscribe to this theory. I don't think he's exhausted, rather just out of shape from having such sparce PT all year long. Doesn't help that the spurs have transformed into a run and gun team which probably just exacerbates the situation.He obviously hasn't played enough basketball this past year.

[TDMVPDPOY]

sometimes pop should just let him play instead of subbing him or not playing at all

how will he learn if he doesnt get the opportunity to do more then to take him out cause of one dumb play?

yeh we are in win mode this season, not enough time develop young players, then why bring him over if you not going to use him...

[G-Dawgg]

What games have you been watching, G-dawwg? He defends the paint and blocks/alters a ton of shots. While I wouldn't call him "fluid" around the rim offensively, he's going through an adjustment period that many players from Europe go through as well. I think he just needs steady sprinkles of water and he'll be like the Chia Pet on 'roids by the end of the year.

Dude, don't candy coat it. He sucks. That's why he gets no court time. What games have YOU been watching? If you think he's an intimidating shot-blocker you need new glasses.

You must have been one of those people that wanted Popovich to give Mahinmi more court time because you thought he had potential too...:lol

I WISH he was the rim-defender that we need, and he MAY improve, but as of RIGHT NOW, I'm calling it exactly how it is.. He's a bust and a disappointment. PERIOD.

[TJastal]

He obviously hasn't played enough basketball this past year.

He's 25 frickin years old, too. At that age he should be able to play every single day of the week.

[TJastal]

Shit, back in my twenties I played basketball 3X a week 3-4 hours a night practically non-stop (since my teams usually won to hold the court).

[Spurs Brazil]

He's not a soft player but his moves in the paint are soft. He's been using those moves his entire life but against NBA bigs it won't work.

We don't need Tiago to score this season so he must focus on defense and rebound. If he does that it'll help a lot. And in the off-season work hard to expand his offense game

[Trill Clinton]

TBH I'd be more inclined to say Matt Bonner's shooting mechanics are much more worthy of a wrecking ball than Splitter's post moves.


I don't think Tiago's game needs a wrecking ball, what it really needs is some TLC from Pop in the form of actual game minutes.


You must be a Tiago stan.

Matt Bonner's shooting mechanics have made him the #2 three point shooter so far this year.

And NOOOOO...Tiago needs to dedicate a summer, just like RJ did, to working on his low post game and getting more comfortable with the system.

[BRs.Ganso]

I never saw Splitter as a center.

playing in PF, would be much better for him.

[Agloco]

Soft. He needs a lot of work on finishing around the rim. It's obvious that he's not strong enough at this point.

[Agloco]

He's 25 frickin years old, too. At that age he should be able to play every single day of the week.

He's not playing pickup games idiot. NBA ad Euroleague rigors are a bit different than getting outside with the local knuckleheads for a few hours.

[TJastal]

He's not playing pickup games idiot. NBA ad Euroleague rigors are a bit different than getting outside with the local knuckleheads for a few hours.

Not in the leagues I played in. :rollin

[quentin_compson]

Well, these flip shots are really ugly, that's for sure. They could be effective, I guess, if Tiago shot them with more confidence.
But the point of release is very low, so it will probably always be a rather risky shot. They also look flat and are too short most of the time, but that might be a lack of confidence thing as well. Splitter should generally try to hold the ball higher, the way Gasol does.

[Spursfan 87]

The key for Tiago is to get stronger during the offseason. He needs to at least add 10-15 pounds of muscle. Right now he gets push around too easily, and he can't back down anybody so he has to use that ugly flip shot. The few times Tiago has been able to back people down he's had nice finishes and nice footwork.

[ChumpDumper]

Did TJastal just claim that his rec league career was just as arduous if not more than professional and world championship basketball combined?



Yes, he did.

[TJastal]

Did TJastal just claim that his rec league career was just as arduous if not more than professional and world championship basketball combined?



Yes, he did.

Well I'm sure it was more arduous than your nightly ritual of putting chip to mouth 100X

[ElNono]

Tiago's defense > Scola. I think he could stick in the league even without that midrange jumper. But your right that would open things up bigtime if he had that.

We're talking offense here... I don't necessarily disagree about the defensive side. Tiago has more tools too, being he's a legit 7 footer.

[Dex]

Did TJastal just claim that his rec league career was just as arduous if not more than professional and world championship basketball combined?



Yes, he did.

Basketball is basketball.

Yesterday I was playing 2K11, and today I just tossed some paper into the garbage bin. I hate back-to-backs.

[ChumpDumper]

Well I'm sure it was more arduous than your nightly ritual of putting chip to mouth 100XWhat makes you think I do that?


Basketball is basketball.

Yesterday I was playing 2K11, and today I just tossed some paper into the garbage bin. I hate back-to-backs.:lmao

[TJastal]

What makes you think I do that?

:lmao

Well I can't imagine what else one would do at every Toros game since 2007 Unless that seat in section D row 15 with all the balled up kleenex is yours.

[ChumpDumper]

Well I can't imagine what else one would do at every Toros game since 2007 Unless that seat in section D row 15 with all the balled up kleenex is yours.Toros games are not nightly and only 24 nights out of a year -- and really, if that's all you can think one would do at a basketball game? That would explain your arduous season with your "teammates."

[Jason R]

Basketball is basketball.

Yesterday I was playing 2K11, and today I just tossed some paper into the garbage bin. I hate back-to-backs.

:rollin

[ohmwrecker]

I picked crafty and useful because, I don't think he should totally erase them from the repertoire, but he needs to develop more of a power game for sure.
In the right situation his flip shot is useful and hard to defend, but not if the defender can see it coming a mile away. He has good footwork, but he needs to attack the rim more often than not and a little outside game (like a turn around jumper) would help a lot too. He is far too predictable and that's why he is struggling in his post offense.

[MannyIsGod]

The problem with Tiago is purely offensive but the problem is so glaring that it makes him hard to get minutes. I don't see a reason to pair him with the starters at all because he'd bog down the offense so an incredible degree. Even Blair, who has no jumper and is much smaller, is far more effective at getting buckets than Tiago.

I mean really think about it. What does Splitter provide on the offensive end that another big doesn't? Dice and Bonner space much better. Blair is a much better interior finisher (so is Dice - Bonner at the moment isn't any worse). Dice and Blair can run the pick and roll but so can Duncan. Blair can be a beast on the offensive glass. What reason is there to pair him with the starters?

I'm fairly sure its mostly mental. He's just trying too damn hard. I wish the guy would just settle into being a role player because he's never going to be NBA MVP no matter how many times he won that shit in Europe. I can't make up my mind if he simply thinks he's much better than he is or if he just wants to show the team he doesn't suck. In any event, neither mindset is good for what we need out of him.

The hype has gotten to Splitter in one way or another and thats bad. I just want a solid big who can board and play some good interior D. Splitter has shown flashes of that and has shown flashes of being a good pick and roll player. Thats all he needs to do.

[TiMMeH*faN*frOmNY]

The problem with Tiago is purely offensive but the problem is so glaring that it makes him hard to get minutes. I don't see a reason to pair him with the starters at all because he'd bog down the offense so an incredible degree. Even Blair, who has no jumper and is much smaller, is far more effective at getting buckets than Tiago.

I mean really think about it. What does Splitter provide on the offensive end that another big doesn't? Dice and Bonner space much better. Blair is a much better interior finisher (so is Dice - Bonner at the moment isn't any worse). Dice and Blair can run the pick and roll but so can Duncan. Blair can be a beast on the offensive glass. What reason is there to pair him with the starters?

I'm fairly sure its mostly mental. He's just trying too damn hard. I wish the guy would just settle into being a role player because he's never going to be NBA MVP no matter how many times he won that shit in Europe. I can't make up my mind if he simply thinks he's much better than he is or if he just wants to show the team he doesn't suck. In any event, neither mindset is good for what we need out of him.

The hype has gotten to Splitter in one way or another and thats bad. I just want a solid big who can board and play some good interior D. Splitter has shown flashes of that and has shown flashes of being a good pick and roll player. Thats all he needs to do.

EXACTLY. You guys remember when pop was asked about tiago last year and he said he won't be a 20-10 guy and u won't see him feeding tiago in the post often. NOW YOU SEE WHY LOL. The man needs to stick to running the pick n roll and playing defense. THATS IT

[024]

it's going to be something splitter needs to work on during the off season. otherwise, he won't be getting any one on one touches.

[DMC]

Tiago needs to learn the Pau Gasol move, where he catches the ball over his head, doesn't bring it down, just either dunks it or sets it in. That's very very effective because it keeps the guards off the ball and almost guarantees 2 points.

[DMC]

Shit, back in my twenties I played basketball 3X a week 3-4 hours a night practically non-stop (since my teams usually won to hold the court).

Yeah, but you guys weren't facing elite squads. You were playing pick up games. Half those fuckers cherry pick and never make it past half court.

You probably aren't 7' tall or that heavy either.

Apples meet oranges.

[PDXSpursFan]

dude passed on at least two dunks to do the flip bs...both either got blocked or missed badly. You can def. Tell he's thinking too much out there.

+1

[mathbzh]

(undecided) As of now, it is too soft. But if he starts going hard to the rim it may become crafty to have this shot in his repertoire.

[angelbelow]

No doubt.. its soft. I hate that shot as much as the next Spurs fan - but I think Ive noticed a trend. He tends to resort to those types of flip/quick/rushed shots at the beginning of games. He tends to look more composed and comfortable as the game progresses. Let's hope him being acclimated and receiving consistent minutes will lead him to shed this habit of throwing those flip shots.