Will the Mavs make a trade?

[LkrFan]

If the below tweet from Mavstats (http://twitter.com/mavstats)is true, they HAVE to in my opinion:

#Butler (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23Butler) to spend night in Milwaukee, back to Big D for MRI tomorrow. Carlisle called it potentially serious injury to knee.:depressed Butler is a former Laker - I wish him a speedy recovery. If he is out for an extended time, couple that with Dirk possibly missing some significant time too, the Mavs could be in serious trouble...unless they make a trade.

Not a trolling thread.

[BUMP]

Ya, the Mavs have no shot if Butler's injury is serious. I think it's time to say goodbye to Beaubois. Cuban will just sign another FA point guard down the line anyway so it won't matter.

I was always hesitant to trade Beaubois but now it's desperation time so they have to make a move to somehow salvage the season.

[LkrFan]

BSPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nba/news/story?id=5979715):

MILWAUKEE -- Dallas forward Caron Butler left the Mavericks' 99-87 loss against Milwaukee in the first quarter Saturday night after injuring his right knee.

After Dallas' Jason Kidd hit a shot, Butler went down to the floor grasping his knee. He rolled over onto his stomach as play continued before Dallas was able to call a timeout.

The training staffs from both teams assisted Butler, who slapped the floor in frustration. Two minutes later, Butler -- from nearby Racine -- was helped to his feet and limped to the locker room under his own power.

He missed the rest of the game.

[jag]

Manu for Beaubois - straight up.

[LkrFan]

DMN (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/basketball/mavs/stories/010211dnspomavslede.729400b9.html):

Milwaukee (http://topics.dallasnews.com/topic/milwaukee) – the injury situation is getting bleak, but the scene on the Bradley Center court Saturday night was far, far worse. When Caron Butler went down – clutching his right knee before he even landed – the situation did not look good. And then it got more depressing, even moreso than the 99-87 loss the Mavericks (http://topics.dallasnews.com/topic/dallas_mavericks) would absorb from the Milwaukee Bucks (http://topics.dallasnews.com/topic/milwaukee_bucks), their third consecutive setback. "To watch a teammate go down on the floor and pound the floor like he was, it's just terrible," said Dirk Nowitzki (http://topics.dallasnews.com/topic/dirk_nowitzki), himself fighting a sprained knee. "we're all just pulling for him now."
That may not be enough. Coach Rick Carlisle (http://topics.dallasnews.com/topic/rick_carlisle) termed Butler's injury "potentially serious." Butler stayed in Milwaukee with family – he grew up in nearby Racine, Wis. - and will return to Dallas today to be examined by team physician Dr. T.O. Souryal. Clearly, it does not look like a short-term injury, although nobody was divulging any diagnosis Saturday. If there is ligament damage, it could threaten butler's season. X-rays were taken at the arena, but the results were not released. "We're afraid that it's potentially serious, but we won't know anything until Dr. Souryal gets a look at it," Carlisle said. "We'll find out tomorrow where things are at." The somber attitude in the locker room suggested that the news is bad. Carlisle said Butler's attitude showed through, however, even during the injury.

[blkroadrunners]

Manu for Beaubois - straight up.

Word :jekka

[Frenzy]

Any one have any idea what te injury was? I just saw him grab it in mid air..it wasn't even hit or anything. That I could see anyway. Must have hurt like a bitch though,dude didn't even wait to hit the ground before grasping it in pain.

[tdunk21]

is butler really a major part of mavs offense? marion can play SF right....hoping that injury is not serious, i dont see the need for the mavs to make a move....

[Giuseppe]

If it were a Laker there'd be the requisite snickers & guffaws over it....as well as the chasing of elbows round assholes justifying the aforementioned snickers & guffaws.

What's good for the goose is like sauce for the gander...

snicker/guffaw

[frodo]

might get Melo here.

only a short-term solution imo. dude will either sign with NJ or NYC and getting him via a trade would definitely cost a lot. denver would rather let him walk free at the end of the season than sell him cheap to a rival team imo. i'd love to see someone his caliber joining the mavs but theres been no realistic target out there tbh. CP3 seems to have regained form and has been doing real good with the NBA hornets recently, brandon roy is probably out for the season...

having added chandler to our squad, the shortest stave has been the lack of depth at PF which has been intricately delineated in the recent 3 games. varejao seems a good potential signing imo and a haywood-varejao swap would do good to both teams imho.

[frodo]

trading for melo would be a gamble for us, imho. i'd only call it a win if mavs win the championship this season (which would be very unlikely even if they had melo). I know it's a big IF, but if the mavs actually win the championship, then melo will opt to re-sign with the champs more likely than any other option and the mavs will enjoy a couple more great seasons with the melo/dirk combo.

whereas if they fails to win it, melo will walk free and they will start rebuilding right away, then dirk will be traded to a contender for a couple future picks and young talents. the distance between heaven and hell can be really very small tbh

[MavFan6488]

if the injury is serious, i think we have to. we needed a true second scoring option before butler got injured, and now we propably lose 15 ppg for the rest of the season..

[dbestpro]

is butler really a major part of mavs offense? marion can play SF right....hoping that injury is not serious, i dont see the need for the mavs to make a move....

The problem is the Mavs do not have a second scorer on the team as Terry is starting to head down hill. Maybe soemthing with Cleveland for Mo Williams for Haywood, Beaubois, and a first pick. May see Terry go too if you can find someone to take on his salary.

[Rummpd]

The over-hype above for the unproven Roddy Beaubois coming back from major foot surgery is unreal.

I would not trade Neal, Hill or especially Manu for RB.

[jeebus]

http://mavsblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2011/01/caron-butler-likely-has-tendon-injury-so.html

[baseline bum]

Sideshow Bob and No-show Mo for French Allah, Butler's expiring, and filler?

[HarlemHeat37]

It's a blessing in disguise, they needed to trade him either way..they have the defense, depth and #1 option to win the title, they need a legit #2, Butler's expiring + Roddy or a pick should be enough to get them a better player than Butler..

[Giuseppe]

It's a blessing in disguise

:rolleyes

The old Phoenix Suns way of looking at it.

[HarlemHeat37]

:rolleyes

The old Phoenix Suns way of looking at it.

Do we know each other?..

[ElNono]

They should be able to pry GForce form the ailing Bobcats for the right pieces...

[Giuseppe]

Do we know each other?..

:lol

[DPG21920]

Roddy doesn't have much trade value at the moment. Just because Cuban refuses to add people to trades publicly doesn't mean that the player has a lot of value.

I am sure some people are somewhat intrigued by him, because he has certainly shown glimpses of great potential, but coaches and GM's will look at the facts:

1) He was very inconsistent
2) His year could have been a fluke
3) He is injured and it could very well effect him long-term and he is a slow healer
4) His own coach chooses to play JJB over him

I know Mav fan loves him. I know Cuban hypes him up. But if you are being real about the situation, Roddy doesn't have much value at the moment. People will look at it like the JJ Hickson syndrome. JJ showed some nice flashes sporadically and the Cavs refused to put him in trades (even for Amare). Now he is a very average player with his increased minutes.

All of those things go against Roddy in a trade. I'm not saying the Mavs can't make a big trade, but I don't think a Roddy will be the deal breaker one way or another.

[ElNono]

Don't forget they have Mahinmi... another huge trade piece, tbh

[ElNono]

Kidding aside, can they dump Haywood in some sort of trade? Who would take him?

[Indazone]

Welcome to our world

[Mel_13]

Kidding aside, can they dump Haywood in some sort of trade? Who would take him?

Some team with a player with an even worse contract.

[sribb43]

with the lockout looming mavs dont have time to waste away another year of their aging vets careers. Must go for it now. Hopefully a team like the bobcats looking for savings will make a move for Butler/roddy package + a pick for G-wall or S-Jax

[DPG21920]

IMO, it will take a big (Chandler or Haywood) for the Mavs to get a big named player.

[sribb43]

IMO, it will take a big (Chandler or Haywood) for the Mavs to get a big named player.

Throw in that piece of shit Haywood but mavs must get a serviceable big to replace him. Only GM dumb enough to take on Haywood is MJ

[DPG21920]

I bet you're right. I bet he would do something for Haywood.

[Mel_13]

I bet your right. I bet he would do something for Haywood.

He's already got Nazr, Kwame, and Diop. Does being a Carolina grad count that much for MJ?

[DPG21920]

He's already got Nazr, Kwame, and Diop. Does being a Carolina grad count that much for MJ?

Kwame is inactive all the time. Those guys aren't going to cut it. They are all cut rate bigs. I know Haywood is playing terrible, but he has at least shown to be much more capable than the current Jordan bigs.

[HeatChamps]

Mavs are jinxed. This song is perfect for them. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ub14_iNzt9w

[Mel_13]

Kwame is inactive all the time. Those guys aren't going to cut it. They are all cut rate bigs. I know Haywood is playing terrible, but he has at least shown to be much more capable than the current Jordan bigs.

Agreed, but MJ's presumed motivation in trading Jackson or Wallace is to shed future salary, not improve the team now. Does anyone really think the Bobcats are a better team if they trade Wallace or Jackson for Haywood? Plus acquiring Haywood adds future salary.

[sefant77]

Jordan is ready to blow up and barely any team want Jax with 20/2 left after this season. I think if the Mavs want they can straight up Butler for Jax, maybe taking some minor bad contracts (Livingston, Najera).

Wallace ist untradeable anymore either, but that may take Diop/Diaw to take....

And then there is of course potential Iggy "available".

I just hope they dont wait too long until these players are gone. Or stick with Butler and he is still hurt during playoff time.

[jag]

Roddy doesn't have much trade value at the moment. Just because Cuban refuses to add people to trades publicly doesn't mean that the player has a lot of value.

I am sure some people are somewhat intrigued by him, because he has certainly shown glimpses of great potential, but coaches and GM's will look at the facts:

1) He was very inconsistent
2) His year could have been a fluke
3) He is injured and it could very well effect him long-term and he is a slow healer
4) His own coach chooses to play JJB over him

I know Mav fan loves him. I know Cuban hypes him up. But if you are being real about the situation, Roddy doesn't have much value at the moment. People will look at it like the JJ Hickson syndrome. JJ showed some nice flashes sporadically and the Cavs refused to put him in trades (even for Amare). Now he is a very average player with his increased minutes.

All of those things go against Roddy in a trade. I'm not saying the Mavs can't make a big trade, but I don't think a Roddy will be the deal breaker one way or another.

Interesting post. I agree with you but you can't deny his raw talent. If you put him in next year's draft he's a lottery pick...a high lottery pick.

Deciding to include or not include roddy in trade talks could potentially be the deciding factor.

[DPG21920]

Agreed, but MJ's presumed motivation in trading Jackson or Wallace is to shed future salary, not improve the team now. Does anyone really think the Bobcats are a better team if they trade Wallace or Jackson for Haywood? Plus acquiring Haywood adds future salary.

I agree with you, but from some of the things Jordan does, I was just agreeing with Sribb that Jordan might be dumb enough to do something like this.

[DPG21920]

Interesting post. I agree with you but you can't deny his raw talent. If you put him in next year's draft he's a lottery pick...a high lottery pick.

Deciding to include or not include roddy in trade talks could potentially be the deciding factor.

Of course it's possible, but I am just going off of what I see. If it comes to the Mavs swinging for the fences, Roddy is not going to be the piece that keeps them from doing a deal.

Would they like to keep him? Sure, I would to. But if they have to make a trade to save their season, and Roddy is the asking price, he is gone.

Potential is nice, but when it comes to rookies, limited minutes and injuries, their value is limited.

Lets put it this way: With what a player like Hill has done over the past couple years, he is much more valuable in a trade at the moment, yet 99% of Mav fans would argue otherwise. The logic applies the same to Roddy, but for some reason (I understand the "fan" love for him and I really like him as a player) the logic does not apply to Roddy.

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

Mavs are jinxed. This song is perfect for them. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ub14_iNzt9w

My man seriously get a life

[Mel_13]

I agree with you, but from some of the things Jordan does, I was just agreeing with Sribb that Jordan might be dumb enough to do something like this.

:lol

MJ's record on personnel decisions is certainly less than stellar.

[Harry Callahan]

He's already got Nazr, Kwame, and Diop. Does being a Carolina grad count that much for MJ?

I don't see Haywood as moveable right now unless they throw in a quality young player and multiple #1s. I don't know that they want to give that up for rent a players and band-aids.

The Haywood contract is a big fat albatross around the Mavies neck. He can barely get on the court and he's 30 years old - in other words he will not get better, only worse. It's so funny that they will have to spend $20-25MM per year ($50MM including luxury tax) at the five spot to afford one decent center next year (Chandler).

Dallas Mavs might be doomed this year as far as going far in the POs.

[Ghazi]

Butler/Roddy package for melo.

[Roddy Beaubois]

tbh if Roddy ever makes a recovery, he has proven he can be a consistent scorer.
In the six game stretch when Butler got hurt last year, Roddy averaged 17 ppg on 55% shooting in about 25 mpg. And before anyone ask his "only good game of his career" wasn't in that stretch so there is no stat inflation.

[sribb43]

With G-Force hurt again Mavs need to focus on SJax

[Roddy Beaubois]

I didn't want G-Force anyway. Not a good fit.

[Ghazi]

Iggy or Melo plz.

[DPG21920]

tbh if Roddy ever makes a recovery, he has proven he can be a consistent scorer.
In the six game stretch when Butler got hurt last year, Roddy averaged 17 ppg on 55% shooting in about 25 mpg. And before anyone ask his "only good game of his career" wasn't in that stretch so there is no stat inflation.

That is still only 6 games. A guy like Hill whom Mav fans constantly bash, put up numbers just as good for a longer stretch with TP out.

Like I said, he has shown flashes, but a handful of games in one season isn't proving anything.

Until he gets healthy and actually proves he can do it for more than a couple games here and there, his value is limited.

I think he can, but thinking isn't doing. His injury is also very alarming considering Anderson for the Spurs had the same injury and is closer to returning even though Roddy was injured 3 months before him.

[DPG21920]

stephen jackson ain't putting us over the top. He's not even the 2nd option Butler was (not a guy that can take over for stretches and create his own, shot) and Dirk still needed more help on top of that. SJax would be a step back from where we already just were.

Disagree. Jax as a second option is better than Caron in my opinion. He is a better ball handler, passer and creator of his own shot.

He is struggling a bit more because he is on a team that is not well balanced (no big men, not a lot of shooters) and he has to be the #1 guy. Jax wouldn't be some monumental upgrade, but he would be no worse and likely better imo.

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

Realistic targets are Jackson and Hamilton. Both bring the D needed and can be just as effective on offense as Butler
I love Butler but lets not act like he is irreplaceable

[Roddy Beaubois]

That is still only 6 games. A guy like Hill whom Mav fans constantly bash, put up numbers just as good for a longer stretch with TP out.

Like I said, he has shown flashes, but a handful of games in one season isn't proving anything.

Until he gets healthy and actually proves he can do it for more than a couple games here and there, his value is limited.

I think he can, but thinking isn't doing. His injury is also very alarming considering Anderson for the Spurs had the same injury and is closer to returning even though Roddy was injured 3 months before him.

Its the only six game stretch (aside from the very beginning of the season) where he got consistent minutes. There isn't much to go on with Roddy. But anytime he did get consistent minutes, he produced. Its not like he would just disappear on the floor constantly, its just that he didn't get any playing time from a coach that hates playing rookies.
Im not saying that hes going to come back and face rape the league, I just think that if can get healthy and get his feet back under him, that he can be a consistent (a mucn more efficient) scorer than guys like Jason Terry.

[Roddy Beaubois]

stephen jackson ain't putting us over the top. He's not even the 2nd option Butler was (not a guy that can take over for stretches and create his own, shot) and Dirk still needed more help on top of that. SJax would be a step back from where we already just were.

At least Sjax can actually play SG unlike Butler. If we can get Sjax for cheap I would definitely make that trade.

[Ghazi]

He does tricks

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

Hamilton is putting up 13ppg on 41% from the field on the lowly Pistons, and SJax is also shooting 41% from the field. Either of those guys as our 2nd option spells disaster.

Never said they needed to be 2nd options, just replace Butler if he is out and pick up his production. I never considered Butler as the #2, the Mavs do not have a clear cut 2 man in my mind.

Mavs work better when they have 4 or 5 guys in double figures and are sharing the wealth.
Hell Butler hardly played the 4th most times in favor of Marion

[MavFan6488]

Iggy or Melo plz.
melo - yes.
iggy - no.

[MavFan6488]

iggy is so overrated. he's just an athletic monster with no jump shot. the only remarkable thing about his game is his dunking ability.

[monosylab1k]

the more i see Iggy and G-Force, the less interested I am. They'd be nice and all, but don't interest me nearly as much as Stephen Jackson. As crazy as that guy is, you know he'll be ready for any dogfight in the playoffs. Knowing the Mavs history of folding in the playoffs when things get tough, it will be important for guys like Chandler and (hopefully) Jackson to be the ones to set the tone and prove that we've got the stomach for the fight this time around.

[MavFan6488]

i like stephen jackson..he's a tough guy. even though his career shooting% is pretty low, he doesn't hesitate to take the last shot. he's a guy you can rely on when it counts. the reverse jason terry if you want.

and his defense is really good.

[monosylab1k]

SJax ain't the savior, mav fan. he'd be nice in addition to another impact player though.

Not the savior, but he'd be an upgrade over Butler, especially in the playoffs. He's better on defense and equal on offense. But Jackson's been known to step up in the playoffs and Butler hasn't done that. Gimme SJax and one thing is for sure, in the playoffs Dirk won't be the only one showing up, while everyone else on the floor is bending over and taking it up the ass. Jackson and Chandler both will show up come playoff time.

[sribb43]

Jackson is a much better all around player. His one downside is his ability to chuck up terrible shots hence is subpar fg%. maybe on a team like the mavs it would get under control. Jackson is a better defender and can facilitate the offense unlike Caron and is a legit SG

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

Whatever needs to be done better be done asap so that the Mavs can build chemistry all over again with new players if a trade is made.
Otherwise wait for Roddy B and go to battle with what you have.
Either way I have faith in this team

[21_Blessings]

iggy is so overrated. he's just an athletic monster with no jump shot. the only remarkable thing about his game is his dunking ability.

Do you like defense and rebounding?

Iggy is a smart player ( 5.5/1.8 ast/tov) that is capable of taking over a game offensively when he's feeling it; which is something the Mavs desperately need in the playoffs when Dirk goes into bed-shitting mode. That is, unless you're content with Terry in that role.

[monosylab1k]

Do you like defense and rebounding?

Iggy is a smart player ( 5.5/1.8 ast/tov) that is capable of taking over a game offensively when he's feeling it; which is something the Mavs desperately need in the playoffs when Dirk goes into bed-shitting mode. That is, unless you're content with Terry in that role.

:lol Yeah we'll desperately need his experience dominating Toronto and New Jersey come WC playoff time.

[21_Blessings]

It's not a debatable slight upgrade though. Iggy is a much better basketball player than Butler or Jax and it's not close.

Ah yes don't want to disrupt that perennial team playoff failure chemistry Dallas has going.

[LnGrrrR]

How much of Captains low shooting percentage is due to him jacking up bad shots because he's dumb, and how much is due to jacking up shots because the team around him sucks?

[MavFan6488]

Do you like defense and rebounding?

Iggy is a smart player ( 5.5/1.8 ast/tov) that is capable of taking over a game offensively when he's feeling it; which is something the Mavs desperately need in the playoffs when Dirk goes into bed-shitting mode. That is, unless you're content with Terry in that role.
when has he proven that?

[Roddy Beaubois]

the more i see Iggy and G-Force, the less interested I am. They'd be nice and all, but don't interest me nearly as much as Stephen Jackson. As crazy as that guy is, you know he'll be ready for any dogfight in the playoffs. Knowing the Mavs history of folding in the playoffs when things get tough, it will be important for guys like Chandler and (hopefully) Jackson to be the ones to set the tone and prove that we've got the stomach for the fight this time around.

Thats the thing that intrigues me most about Jackson tbh.

[21_Blessings]

How much of Captains low shooting percentage is due to him jacking up bad shots because he's dumb, and how much is due to jacking up shots because the team around him sucks?

Jackson literally thinks he's as good as Kobe. Just ask him.

Iggy had a pretty solid run with USA basketball and became a willing passer/team player. The staff loves him. He's been in a shit situation most of his career and playing next to an offensive stud like Dirk would do wonders for him.

[MavFan6488]

Jackson literally thinks he's as good as Kobe. Just ask him.
he almost shoots as well as kobe so.. :lol

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

If a trade gets done it's going to be imo Jackson or Hamilton.
I'll be fine with either.

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

Quick thought that came to mind today.
We have heard that the Mavs are taking their time with Roddy B. and are in no rush to get him back if not 100%.
Well with this news if it turns out to be bad, do the Mavs maybe rush Roddy back???

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

Why do we need a stockpile at SG anyway? beaubois, jet, jackson, stevenson, all getting rotation minutes?

He isn't a 2, is he??? I always thought he was a 3, either way he would play 3 if he was traded here

[Roddy Beaubois]

If a trade gets done it's going to be imo Jackson or Hamilton.
I'll be fine with either.
Jackson- yes.
Hamilton- probably not.
Maybe if its confirmed that Butler is out for the season, and every other trade rumor falls through, then I would look into it.

Why do we need a stockpile at SG anyway? beaubois, jet, jackson, stevenson, all getting rotation minutes?

If we got Jackson and Roddy comes back healthy, Stevenson would be cut out of the PO rotation. Franklin can go suck a cock for all I care. The guy cannot be relied upon for anything, and the Mavs consistent reliance on him for offense is one of the biggest reasons for their continued playoff failure.

[Roddy Beaubois]

Someone mentioned earlier that he could play the 2 unlike Butler, and im like wtf? You're right he'd be a 3 here. Dude's 6'8 anyway.

His skill set is 10x more guard like than Howard or Butler. He can handle the ball and run an offense better than anyone on the mavs not named Jason Kidd.

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

This is why I don't understand certain Mavs fans on other boards pressing the panic button.
Butler is a good player but the Mavs have options out their to replace him if it comes to that. When you think about the news that could have been with Dirk earlier in the week , the Mavs are very lucky.

I think with the injuries to Dirk and Marion and now the news with Butler and factor into that a 3 game losing streak it tends to look alot worse then it actually is

[MavFan6488]

sjax is a sg, always been and that won't change. he's almost as comfortable with the 3 position as butler is with the 2.

[Roddy Beaubois]

Carlisle has consistently proved that he is not comfortable playing both Caron and Marion together for any extended time. I think he would play Jackson and Marion together, which means Yertles minutes can be cut.

[Roddy Beaubois]

You've also got to think, if RC plays Jackson and Marion together, that mean's small ball whenever subs come in to get those 2 out of the game. Mav fan should know that spells disaster. A jjb/jet/beaubois lineup is something im sure dumbass RC would like to throw out there for periods whenever the starters are resting.

My plan would be to start kidd/roddy/jackson/dirk/chandler and to bring Marion off the bench. And then finish games with Marion in place of Roddy. That way you got size coming off the bench but still a good balance.

But if Roddy really is French Allah, you might have to let him finish games as well...

[baseline bum]

Iguodala is having a horrible year, and on top of that has missed almost 1/4 of his team's games. Of course the Laker troll thinks he'd be good for Dallas.

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

My plan would be to start kidd/roddy/jackson/dirk/chandler and to bring Marion off the bench. And then finish games with Marion in place of Roddy. That way you got size coming off the bench but still a good balance.

But if Roddy really is French Allah, you might have to let him finish games as well...

That is the issue with RC no matter how well french allah plays, we all know when it is crunch time he will always be benched in favor of Terry.

BTW I love looking at that line up you mentioned.

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

Looks like Marion may be a go for tonight

[DPG21920]

This really isn't a question imo. Jackson is the best option. He is a better all around player than Butler. Like I said, Jax is struggling as the #1 option because he isn't a #1 option. He is probably not a #2 either, but he is better than Butler as the #2 and that is what the Mavs have.

He does pretty much everything better and can probably be had for cheaper than most other options. He is tough and playoff tested. He is clutch.

The Mavs, with how they were playing, did not need a huge upgrade. If they got Jax, imo they would be slightly better than they were before the injuries and that puts them in a great spot.

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

This really isn't a question imo. Jackson is the best option. He is a better all around player than Butler. Like I said, Jax is struggling as the #1 option because he isn't a #1 option. He is probably not a #2 either, but he is better than Butler as the #2 and that is what the Mavs have.

He does pretty much everything better and can probably be had for cheaper than most other options. He is tough and playoff tested. He is clutch.

The Mavs, with how they were playing, did not need a huge upgrade. If they got Jax, imo they would be slightly better than they were before the injuries and that puts them in a great spot.

agreed

[frodo]

why the fuck would the bobcats trade one of their best 2 in exchange for someone who's done for the season? and even if u got done this deal, s-jax or g-wallace would play no bigger role than caron butler used to play. you never think you have the prettiest wife at home

[DPG21920]

Cap space.

Also, he doesn't have to play a bigger role. He has to help them maintain. Which he would not doubt accomplish.

[frodo]

This really isn't a question imo. Jackson is the best option. He is a better all around player than Butler. Like I said, Jax is struggling as the #1 option because he isn't a #1 option. He is probably not a #2 either, but he is better than Butler as the #2 and that is what the Mavs have.

He does pretty much everything better and can probably be had for cheaper than most other options. He is tough and playoff tested. He is clutch.

The Mavs, with how they were playing, did not need a huge upgrade. If they got Jax, imo they would be slightly better than they were before the injuries and that puts them in a great spot.

stop making lateral moves please. prior to the Haywood+butler deal you & most other mav fans also thought butler as a better player than smokey, and haywood much better than damp. they were upgrades at the time but still not enough to make a difference- 1st round and quit. s-jax would be an upgrade for sure but there's no hell of way he could be a huge upgrade that they need

[ElNono]

Once you make Jax feel like the underdog, he can ball. The question is if he's ready to play second banana... it's never always clear with jax that team is the most important thing.

[DPG21920]

stop making lateral moves please. prior to the Haywood+butler deal you & most other mav fans also thought butler as a better player than smokey, and haywood much better than damp. they were upgrades at the time but still not enough to make a difference- 1st round and quit. s-jax would be an upgrade for sure but there's no hell of way he could be a huge upgrade that they need

The move the Mavs needed they already made in Chandler. Say what you will, the Mavs are better off now after that Haywood/Butler trade.

Now they need to maintain/improve if they can.

[frodo]

Cap space.

Also, he doesn't have to play a bigger role. He has to help them maintain. Which he would not doubt accomplish.

it would be a good move to replace someone who's done for the season with a solid performer, but im not sure if that would be enough to escalate them to lakers level. if they are about to make such minor adjustments, they will have a wide range of targets to choose from. there are many other teams also in search of cap space imo. i'd rather take salmons from bucks instead of a versatile swinger who can turn a cancer anytime.

[DPG21920]

Salmons wouldn't be bad, but they aren't in a position to shed guys for salary imo. They are a playoff team.

[frodo]

The move the Mavs needed they already made in Chandler. Say what you will, the Mavs are better off now after that Haywood/Butler trade.

Now they need to maintain/improve if they can.

surely your never better off while Brian Cardinal is your No.1 option at PF. Marion plays PF temporarily but he's more of a swinger between SF and PF and his main mission is to drop some hustle points as a 6th or 7th man. Completely overshadowed by the opposing forwards last night, Ilyasova notched 17 rebounds last night which says a lot

[LkrFan]

How about this trade:

Mavs/Bobcats (http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2erqykl)

Mavs Get:
Captain Jack

Bobcats Get:
DeShawn Stephenson
JJ Barea
Steve Novak

Outlook for the Mavs:
J Kidd
Captain Jack
Matrix (until Butler returns)
Dirk
Chandler

Say what you want about Captain Jack, but he absolutely steps up his game in the playoffs. He is fearless and he will play defense (he won a ring with the Spurs, so you know he will play defense). The Mavs get a big back court with him and J Kidd. Jack can post up, shoot the 3, and can play the 3. I think him being a 2nd option and on a talented team brings his shooting percentages up too.

If I'm a Mavs fan, the only way I don't do this trade is because the 3 out going players are expirings so you could possibly fetch a bigger fish than Jack, but this trade allows you to keep both Roddy and Butler (who hopefully will return this year or worst case next year).

Just my 0.02.

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

A good basketball discussion was taking place till this clown decided to post

[Roddy Beaubois]

How about this trade:

Mavs/Bobcats (http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2erqykl)

Mavs Get:
Captain Jack

Bobcats Get:
DeShawn Stephenson
JJ Barea
Steve Novak

Outlook for the Mavs:
J Kidd
Captain Jack
Matrix (until Butler returns)
Dirk
Chandler

Say what you want about Captain Jack, but he absolutely steps up his game in the playoffs. He is fearless and he will play defense (he won a ring with the Spurs, so you know he will play defense). The Mavs get a big back court with him and J Kidd. Jack can post up, shoot the 3, and can play the 3. I think him being a 2nd option and on a talented team brings his shooting percentages up too.

If I'm a Mavs fan, the only way I don't do this trade is because the 3 out going players are expirings so you could possibly fetch a bigger fish than Jack, but this trade allows you to keep both Roddy and Butler (who hopefully will return this year or worst case next year).

Just my 0.02.

lol no way the Bobcats do that.

[frodo]

Salmons wouldn't be bad, but they aren't in a position to shed guys for salary imo. They are a playoff team.

bobcats are only 2 games behind, so i'd say they are also a playoff team as well.

[LkrFan]

lol no way the Bobcats do that.
I'm not so sure about that. They are going nowhere with Jack and Crash (who are both rumored to be on the block). The guys I'm proposing that you guys send out are not only easily replacable (a plus for Dallas), they are also valuable expiring KTs (a plus for the soon to be rebuilding Bobcats).

I bet you no one thought Kwame's big expiring KT could net the Lakers Gasol. Basketball wise, nobody makes that trade, but financially they would.

[DPG21920]

bobcats are only 2 games behind, so i'd say they are also a playoff team as well.

Well since they are not currently in the playoffs and have a worse team, I'd say they are not.

[LnGrrrR]

His fg% this season is right on par with his career average, so it isn't this particular team making him shoot bad imho.

Ah cool thanks. I like Captain Jack when I see him play, but it's not too often.

[sefant77]

It's so funny that they will have to spend $20-25MM per year ($50MM including luxury tax) at the five spot to afford one decent center next year (Chandler).



Its so funny because Haywood is averaging 8.3 million per year and you think Chandler will average 12-17 million a year in his next contract.

Nice try.

[frodo]

Its so funny because Haywood is averaging 8.3 million per year and you think Chandler will average 12-17 million a year in his next contract.

Nice try.

TC is twice the player of haywood in terms of stats so he pretty well deserves 12-17 million a year imho

[Roddy Beaubois]

tbh Kevin Martins name hasn't been mentioned in this thread, but its been said that the Mavs FO really like him. A Haywood for Martin based deal is possible.

[Harry Callahan]

Its so funny because Haywood is averaging 8.3 million per year and you think Chandler will average 12-17 million a year in his next contract.

Nice try.

My try will not be far off the mark because Tyson Chandlers STARTING POINT on his next contract will be materially more than what your 2nd String Center was given. That is a fact. Mark Cuban tends to fall in love with his own players and competes against himself when contracts come up. In other words he overpays them.

By the way, smart guy, Tyson Chandler is making $12.75MM RIGHT NOW for 2010-11. Do you honestly believe the guy who is being given the most credit for the Mavericks improvement from last year will go into Mark Cuban's office and and ask for a pay cut given the way that owner overpays his players? Get a clue.

[wijayas]

Throw in that piece of shit Haywood but mavs must get a serviceable big to replace him. Only GM dumb enough to take on Haywood is MJ

:toast

[wijayas]

My try will not be far off the mark because Tyson Chandlers STARTING POINT on his next contract will be materially more than what your 2nd String Center was given. That is a fact. Mark Cuban tends to fall in love with his own players and competes against himself when contracts come up. In other words he overpays them.

By the way, smart guy, Tyson Chandler is making $12.75MM RIGHT NOW for 2010-11. Do you honestly believe the guy who is being given the most credit for the Mavericks improvement from last year will go into Mark Cuban's office and and ask for a pay cut given the way that owner overpays his players? Get a clue.

If only he overpaid wisely (i.e. Nash), the Mavs might have secured a championship ring by now. But hey, he is Cubes! He does what he wants with his gazillions.

[wijayas]

lol no way the Bobcats do that.

Don't lose hope yet. The Cats got MJ!!!!!!

[urunobili]

tbh Kevin Martins name hasn't been mentioned in this thread, but its been said that the Mavs FO really like him. A Haywood for Martin based deal is possible.

buckets right on cue :tu

[HeatChamps]

Mavs :lol Butler :lol End of season :lol Another wasted season :lol

[sefant77]

Mark Cuban tends to fall in love with his own players and competes against himself when contracts come up. In other words he overpays them.

Weird, after the signing i read in most of the boards that its a nice solid contract with "just" 41 million guaranteed over 5 years, way less than most of them expected what Haywood could get in this free agent summer. Solid typical center contract in the league.

Of course some idiots that just saw the total numbers (6/55) threw there "lol cuban overpaid" around. And the usual moron writers like Hollinger throwing 55 around just for the bashing.

He play like ass right now but his contract was solid considering his last season and the lack of center. There were plenty of teams last summer that would take him for that price.



By the way, smart guy, Tyson Chandler is making $12.75MM RIGHT NOW for 2010-11. Do you honestly believe the guy who is being given the most credit for the Mavericks improvement from last year will go into Mark Cuban's office and and ask for a pay cut given the way that owner overpays his players? Get a clue.

By the way dumb guy, Tyson Chandler got this contract during his prime. Next summer is a potential lockout, a new CBA, his new contract will go deep into his 30s and he had a terrible injury history the past 3 years.

So who cares that he is making 12.6 million this season. He wont average 10 million on his new contract considering all the facts. Get a clue.

[Muser]

tbh Kevin Martins name hasn't been mentioned in this thread, but its been said that the Mavs FO really like him. A Haywood for Martin based deal is possible.


Do Mav fans want this though?

[sefant77]

If only he overpaid wisely (i.e. Nash), the Mavs might have secured a championship ring by now. But hey, he is Cubes! He does what he wants with his gazillions.

Yes, because Dirk&Nash was a great sucess in Dallas, i lost the count on all the WCF and Finals appearances.

Funny how people think Nash would become the same player he became in Phoenix with staying in Dallas and that Dirk would become the same player he is right now...

[Muser]

The Mavs would have been decimated with Nash defending the likes of Parker/CP3/DWil etc.

[Phillip]

the mavs would have been decimated with nash defending the likes of parker/cp3/dwil etc.

+1

[Harry Callahan]

Weird, after the signing i read in most of the boards that its a nice solid contract with "just" 41 million guaranteed over 5 years, way less than most of them expected what Haywood could get in this free agent summer. Solid typical center contract in the league.

Of course some idiots that just saw the total numbers (6/55) threw there "lol cuban overpaid" around. And the usual moron writers like Hollinger throwing 55 around just for the bashing.

He play like ass right now but his contract was solid considering his last season and the lack of center. There were plenty of teams last summer that would take him for that price.



By the way dumb guy, Tyson Chandler got this contract during his prime. Next summer is a potential lockout, a new CBA, his new contract will go deep into his 30s and he had a terrible injury history the past 3 years.

So who cares that he is making 12.6 million this season. He wont average 10 million on his new contract considering all the facts. Get a clue.

$8.2 MM per year for a guy who can barely get on the floor is a huge personnel mistake on Haywood. You have to get meaningful minutes out of that salary slot. Five more years buddy. Five more years. The guaranteed money to Haywood is $41.8MM through the 2014-15 season. Terrible contract.

Tyson Chandler just turned 28 years old. If he gets through this season, will he let the Mavericks decrease his compensation due to an injury history when he can go to any team? NO! He will be in his early 30s when the contract comes up it if is a five year deal. The next five years will be the prime years for a big man like Chandler. IOW, $20MM per year for the center spot could happen.

No one knows what the CBA will mean in the future - especially you. If things remain similar and the Mavs want to have a defensive anchor after this year, they will have to pay up for Chandler. Without Chandler, this team will not be able to cover up their MTM defensive weaknesses by playing a lot of zone with a backstop.

BTW, your takes are pretty weak. Get your facts straight next time.

[JamStone]

Rip Hamilton for Caron Butler's contract and unconditional first round pick

[BUMP]

Of course it's possible, but I am just going off of what I see. If it comes to the Mavs swinging for the fences, Roddy is not going to be the piece that keeps them from doing a deal.

Would they like to keep him? Sure, I would to. But if they have to make a trade to save their season, and Roddy is the asking price, he is gone.

Potential is nice, but when it comes to rookies, limited minutes and injuries, their value is limited.

Lets put it this way: With what a player like Hill has done over the past couple years, he is much more valuable in a trade at the moment, yet 99% of Mav fans would argue otherwise. The logic applies the same to Roddy, but for some reason (I understand the "fan" love for him and I really like him as a player) the logic does not apply to Roddy.

IMO, Roddy is gone too. Even for a player like Wallace. When you asked earlier if I would do it, I said no because the Mavs were rolling but now they have to make a move to salvage the season and just hope Cubes signs some halfway decent FA point guard in the future.

We unstacked:depressed:cry

[nkdlunch]

maybe they can bring Finley out of retirement?

[Fpoonsie]

tbh Kevin Martins name hasn't been mentioned in this thread, but its been said that the Mavs FO really like him. A Haywood for Martin based deal is possible.

Same thing I heard from that friend a' mine that suggested the Melo trade to me pre-Butler injury. What's funny is that, even with all his "connections (post game locker room chats, Donny Nelson's ear, etc"), he doesn't seem to know much more than your typical e-fan...

[Shank]

$8.2 MM per year for a guy who can barely get on the floor is a huge personnel mistake on Haywood. You have to get meaningful minutes out of that salary slot. Five more years buddy. Five more years. The guaranteed money to Haywood is $41.8MM through the 2014-15 season. Terrible contract.

Tyson Chandler just turned 28 years old. If he gets through this season, will he let the Mavericks decrease his compensation due to an injury history when he can go to any team? NO! He will be in his early 30s when the contract comes up it if is a five year deal. The next five years will be the prime years for a big man like Chandler. IOW, $20MM per year for the center spot could happen.

No one knows what the CBA will mean in the future - especially you. If things remain similar and the Mavs want to have a defensive anchor after this year, they will have to pay up for Chandler. Without Chandler, this team will not be able to cover up their MTM defensive weaknesses by playing a lot of zone with a backstop.

BTW, your takes are pretty weak. Get your facts straight next time.

To be fair, they gave that money to Haywood because they didn't know what they were getting out of Chandler. No one expected him to have that sort of impact. And, at the time, that contract amount was about the going rate for a decent starting center in the NBA. If you want a capable center (which Haywood showed he could be when he arrived in Dallas), then you have to pay that amount. Little did we know that Chandler would explode and Haywood would prove to be a contract whore. We still haven't seen if Haywood will be an asset against bigger, longer teams where you can throw out 2 centers over the course of a game.

[Harry Callahan]

To be fair, they gave that money to Haywood because they didn't know what they were getting out of Chandler. No one expected him to have that sort of impact. And, at the time, that contract amount was about the going rate for a decent starting center in the NBA. If you want a capable center (which Haywood showed he could be when he arrived in Dallas), then you have to pay that amount. Little did we know that Chandler would explode and Haywood would prove to be a contract whore. We still haven't seen if Haywood will be an asset against bigger, longer teams where you can throw out 2 centers over the course of a game.

That is fair. If the Chandler thing had not happened, then he would be playing a lot more due to the lack of alternatives. Haywood was signed before Chandler became a reality, and FAs with some demand get signed quickly. Haywood may feel slighted for as long as he stays in Dallas because his replacement was acquired before the 2010 season even started.

[Giuseppe]

I was over at PhoenixSuns.net and found this idea:


[[[Posts
605
http://www.phxsuns.net/images/icons/icon1.gif Re: Suns News Thread: 12/27/10 - 01/02/11

They might as well trade VC for the injured Butler and picks/assets. They get financial relief since he is out the remainder of the year anyway, and he has an expiring contract too.]]]

[Roddy Beaubois]

Do Mav fans want this though?

Ehh... its a hard decision.
On one hand Kevin Martin would be the best scorer Dirk has played with in a very long time. But his defense and rebounding are both mediocre.
I don't really like the idea of giving up one of our big man for him, but its looking like we might not have a choice. If they would take Butler for him, I would do that for sure, especially if Butler is done for the year.

[Phillip]

Butler for Yao

do it

[DPG21920]

I would be very happy if the Mavs got RIP. He sucks and is basically Terry with no 3PT shot.

[frodo]

To be fair, they gave that money to Haywood because they didn't know what they were getting out of Chandler. No one expected him to have that sort of impact. And, at the time, that contract amount was about the going rate for a decent starting center in the NBA. If you want a capable center (which Haywood showed he could be when he arrived in Dallas), then you have to pay that amount. Little did we know that Chandler would explode and Haywood would prove to be a contract whore. We still haven't seen if Haywood will be an asset against bigger, longer teams where you can throw out 2 centers over the course of a game.

why didn't they sign him for a shorter contract with a better basic salary?

[sefant77]

BTW, your takes are pretty weak. Get your facts straight next time.

:rollin


Mark Cuban tends to fall in love with his own players and competes against himself when contracts come up. In other words he overpays them.



$8.2 MM per year for a guy who can barely get on the floor is a huge personnel mistake on Haywood. You have to get meaningful minutes out of that salary slot. Five more years buddy. Five more years. The guaranteed money to Haywood is $41.8MM through the 2014-15 season. Terrible contract.



That is fair. If the Chandler thing had not happened, then he would be playing a lot more due to the lack of alternatives. Haywood was signed before Chandler became a reality, and FAs with some demand get signed quickly. Haywood may feel slighted for as long as he stays in Dallas because his replacement was acquired before the 2010 season even started.

God, you are a joke.

Dallas had ZERO center at beginning of the FA. There were several teams with capspace at the moment they signed Haywood.

Was 8.3/5 years a bad contract for an above average center? Hell no (Amir Johnson, Drew Gooden, C. Frye, John Salmons, Travis Outlaw etc).

Did they know at this moment they are getting Chandler? No way. Chandler was basically allready traded to Toronto later and Jordan cancelled the deal last minute to deal with Dallas.

Did they know Chandler will be again THAT awesome? Not for sure.

Did they know Haywood would play like ass from the bench? No.

Again, was the contract an error or "overpaying" at the moment they did it? No way.

So maybe just stop trying to rip Dallas for the Haywood signing.

[frodo]

:rollin







God, you are a joke.

Dallas had ZERO center at beginning of the FA. There were several teams with capspace at the moment they signed Haywood.

instead of letting him leave free it was definitely a good move to keep him, since he looked a useful member of the team at that time and your financial condition was good.




Was 8.3/5 years a bad contract for an above average center? Hell no (Amir Johnson, Drew Gooden, C. Frye, John Salmons, Travis Outlaw etc).

Neither Salmons nor Outlaw is a center imo




Did they know at this moment they are getting Chandler? No way. Chandler was basically allready traded to Toronto later and Jordan cancelled the deal last minute to deal with Dallas.

Did they know Chandler will be again THAT awesome? Not for sure.

Did they know Haywood would play like ass from the bench? No.

Again, was the contract an error or "overpaying" at the moment they did it? No way.

So maybe just stop trying to rip Dallas for the Haywood signing.
haywood was a fine player and was indeed worth 6-7 million a year, but the length of contract turned the signing a horrible one. no team would want to slurp this contract due to its length so he will remain a mav for at least 3 more seasons, as the 3rd or 4th center.

imho they should have signed him for a 2-3 yr deal (with teams option for the 3rd year) then we'd be able to trade him anytime this season or next

[Harry Callahan]

:rollin







God, you are a joke.

Dallas had ZERO center at beginning of the FA. There were several teams with capspace at the moment they signed Haywood.

Was 8.3/5 years a bad contract for an above average center? Hell no (Amir Johnson, Drew Gooden, C. Frye, John Salmons, Travis Outlaw etc).

Did they know at this moment they are getting Chandler? No way. Chandler was basically allready traded to Toronto later and Jordan cancelled the deal last minute to deal with Dallas.

Did they know Chandler will be again THAT awesome? Not for sure.

Did they know Haywood would play like ass from the bench? No.

Again, was the contract an error or "overpaying" at the moment they did it? No way.

So maybe just stop trying to rip Dallas for the Haywood signing.


How am I a joke? I'm just laying out facts for you.

The Mavs signed an average center for too many years and too much guaranteed money. The Chandler thing fell into their lap and they rented that player. Next year they will need to sign Chandler to more money than they paid Haywood. What may have been decent signing became a bad signing two weeks after it happened. They can't (as far as I can tell) put the two players out there at the same time.

It's tough to trade a player like Haywood with four years of guaranteed money if he is proving to be a middle of the road player.

Cuban can afford to pay the luxury tax, but even a guy like him cringes when he gets little production out of a very recent and sizable investment. The Spurs cannot make that kind of deal given their financial situation.

Speaking of bad deals, $10MM and $11MM for Jason Terry the next two years is starting to look a little pricey. That's a lot of bread for a one dimensional jump shooter who's running hot and cold right now.

I will throw a complement to the Mavericks for resigning Dirk to an appropriate contract. That was a good job.

[Muser]

I would be very happy if the Mavs got RIP. He sucks and is basically Terry with no 3PT shot.


:tu

[tdunk21]

I would be very happy if the Mavs got RIP. He sucks and is basically Terry with no 3PT shot and no D.

[Fpoonsie]

Caron Butler to miss rest of season. Had surgery today to repair ruptured right patellar tendon. #dallasmavs

http://twitter.com/ArtGarcia_NBA