Pop Pulling the Plug against the Knicks

[timvp]

Usually I have no problem when Pop waves the white flag early but down ten with 3:15 to go against these Knicks. There are a ton of possessions left. Heck, in the next minute a few threes go down and the Spurs are right there.

I understand the back-to-back against the Celtics is looming but WTF. Another 1:30 wouldn't hurt anything and at this pace, that could be another five possessions.

Weird end to a crazy game.

[4>0rings]

What? We get to see Hakeem Splitter take over the game like he usually does.

[Jose Ole]

Yeah, I'm not too happy with that call either, but our guys looked defeated and he saw that in their composure. CIA Pop...

[ShoogarBear]

He wanted RJ to have time to catch his breath so he could say something clever about the Celtics.

[Muser]

They should of at least tried to play an ounce of D then.

[rAm]

I definitely do not have a Bonner.

[Pistons < Spurs]

J.A. Adande
I wish some boxing trainers were as quick with the white towel as Gregg Popovich is.

[MannyIsGod]

Usually I have no problem when Pop waves the white flag early but down ten with 3:15 to go against these Knicks. There are a ton of possessions left. Heck, in the next minute a few threes go down and the Spurs are right there.

I understand the back-to-back against the Celtics is looming but WTF. Another 1:30 wouldn't hurt anything and at this pace, that could be another five possessions.

Weird end to a crazy game.

You should know better, LJ. He's had maybe the Clippers game as an opportunity to lay into them after a loss and thats about it. This has nothing to do with being tired or tomorrow nights game and everything to do with Pop seeing an opportunity to remind his team that they actually have to show up and play defense if they want a chance to win.

[timtonymanu]

They weren't gonna make a comeback playing the way they did. They weren't guarding the 3 pt line and they missed timely shots.

Pop had the right to sit them down. They didn't play like they cared so why should he?

[Spurminator]

It's fucking annoying.

[spurtech09]

you can what you want to say but damn do the knicks ever miss...they even made there tuff shots......the knicks can shoot the lights out but yeah there defense wasn't good either...

[024]

knicks completely outplayed the spurs. they took advantage of the spurs weakness and had plenty of weapons. spurs do not have good individual defenders against athletic players like chandler and stoudemire. all the knicks had to do was give more effort and they could easily beat the spurs. once pop recognized that, there was no hope anyways.

[MannyIsGod]

Of course the Knicks didn't miss. It's in large part due to how bad the Spurs defense was. You give NBA players easy shots and they tend to hit them.

[Spurs Brazil]

We spend the whole second half trying to tie the game and every time we got close NY made a run. So with 3:00 to go and the way things were going we had no chance. We couldn't get a stop in the whole game so no way we could stop them scoring for 3 minutes

Good move by Pop

[Mugen]

shoulda pulled the plug earlier tbh.

[Sense]

The most annoying part about Pop wasn't the towel... it was the Zone defense.

[polandprzem]

Spurs had like milion and ten opurtunities to get over the hump and they failed each time.

I don't blame Pop. Poor performance and NY lights out made it

[DMC]

Pop saw Tony hit the floor and thought "injury on a loss would suck" so he pulled them all. Fuck it. Orlando did the same thing to us. It happens. The Knicks won't get anywhere like that. Hey though, it raises people's stat lines. 29-5... I'll take it.

Blair did ok.

[Warlord23]

There's plenty of blame to go around though.

- Duncan started to show a competitive streak too late in the game after sleepwalking through most of it
- Pop played Dice when Amare was out for a while, rather than having Blair feast on Shawne Williams et al. Dice had 3 turnovers in 18 mins
- Manu shooting some ugly jumpers and throwing the ball away when we were getting close
- Gary Neal having a totally forgettable game on both ends of the floor

The most worrying sight was our defense deteriorating as we started misfiring on the offensive end. In years past, our D would be rock-steady and even improve when we struggled to score.

[ALVAREZ6]

The Spurs allowed 128 points to the Knicks. That is the most points they have allowed in regulation since drafting Tim Duncan in 1997.
Jesus fuck

[polandprzem]

Burn the tape LJ

[ElNono]

I called this shit when he did it against Orlando. In that game, at least the game seemed out of reach. It's really bullshit. He can send all the messages he wants in the film session tomorrow. Or when we get blown out next time.

If he really want to rest the big 3 in the big picture, the bottom line is we need to win games. Winning means not quitting games where you still have a chance.

What message is he going to send? We didn't play D? You don't think vets with 10+ years of experience don't know? It's bullshit.

[DMC]

shoulda pulled the plug earlier tbh.

Yep, should have let the bench play the whole game.

[Muser]

The most annoying part about Pop wasn't the towel... it was the Zone defense.

If they tried to play defense in the first place he wouldn't of had to try it.

[Texas_Ranger]

They went under the screen everytime and Felton made the shot everytime. :lol

[dbestpro]

Usually I have no problem when Pop waves the white flag early but down ten with 3:15 to go against these Knicks. There are a ton of possessions left. Heck, in the next minute a few threes go down and the Spurs are right there.

I understand the back-to-back against the Celtics is looming but WTF. Another 1:30 wouldn't hurt anything and at this pace, that could be another five possessions.

Weird end to a crazy game.

Pop loved this game. He pulled the plug with 3 minutes because he did not want the Spurs to mess up his defense message by winning.

[Brazil]

let's be prepared for the Pop soft card, it will happen tonight

[DMC]

I called this shit when he did it against Orlando. In that game, at least the game seemed out of reach. It's really bullshit. He can send all the messages he wants in the film session tomorrow. Or when we get blown out next time.

If he really want to rest the big 3 in the big picture, the bottom line is we need to win games. Winning means not quitting games where you still have a chance.

What message is he going to send? We didn't play D? You don't think vets with 10+ years of experience don't know? It's bullshit.

It's not about sending messages to the team. It's about risk vs reward.

The Spurs really needed this game. They need to get their ass kicked now and then. Otherwise young guys get smug.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I'm fine with it. We were not going to win this game. Ginobili flopping on fadeaway jumpers with 6 mins to go only down 8?

Blasphemy.

Parker had 20 points in the 1st half and 6 points the rest of the way.

George Hill had 3 or 4 shots from 3 feet away and he made an unnecessary extra pass.

Knicks had over 20 points off turnovers

And to add to all that, they were genuinely hot tonight. Felton, Amare, and Chandler were all sizzling hot.

We were going to lose. Let Pop bruise their ego even more like Manny says and get these fuckers fired up and remembering how to win basketball games.

[ChuckD]

Knicks hit everything. You have to to beat a team that scores 62 in the paint.

Pop will light them up, and they will respond.

[ElNono]

Pop also needs to understand that when you get to 29-4, teams will get complacent. It's just human nature. Quitting won't make a difference.

[spurtech09]

Can't win them all...damn spurs fans are spoiled....get over it

[Sense]

If they tried to play defense in the first place he wouldn't of had to try it.

That's all he played all game and it never worked... why would he stick to it?

That's what killed the Spurs today, teams that can score know their way around a zone defense. Open jumper after open jumper, Pop stuck to it and that was the downfall.. everything after the second quarter was pretty much deja vu

[Warlord23]

The good news is there's a lot of games left to fix the D.

The bad news is that it's badly broken right now, especially the zone. A rec league team could run a better zone.

[timvp]

You should know better, LJ. He's had maybe the Clippers game as an opportunity to lay into them after a loss and thats about it. This has nothing to do with being tired or tomorrow nights game and everything to do with Pop seeing an opportunity to remind his team that they actually have to show up and play defense if they want a chance to win.

Yeah, that was my thought at the time. But damn, 3:15 against D'Antoni is like a quarter against a regular team. One missed Stoudemire jumper and a D'Antonimeltdown could have commenced.

Ah well.

[ElNono]

It's not about sending messages to the team. It's about risk vs reward.

The Spurs really needed this game. They need to get their ass kicked now and then. Otherwise young guys get smug.

The guys that sat down were vets... tell me what does Tim Duncan doesn't know about stuff like this... I bet he's wondering if Pop is going to pull the soft card already :sleep

[polandprzem]

Pop also needs to understand that when you get to 29-4, teams will get complacent. It's just human nature. Quitting won't make a difference.

Who quit?

[Muser]

Let's be honest here though, are you really worried? Yeah the Spurs sucked donkey dick tonight but this won't be the norm.

[Sense]

I sure hope every single player watches tape on this game and realized how fucking pathetic they looked out there...

You can only learn from this now... and feel disgusted.

[ElNono]

Who quit?

Read the OP.

[xmas1997]

To win this game they had to play defense.
They didn't, for whatever reason.
Thus, no win!
This is what worries me this year about the Spurs, no consistent lock down D.

[Sean Cagney]

shoulda pulled the plug earlier tbh.

I agree, they were not going to start missing obviously and the Spurs were not going to hit threes to get back into it (They were 6-23 or so). This game was not going to be won tonight.

[ElNono]

I'm frankly glad I didn't drop $800 for seats to the game... to think I even thought about it. Dodged a bullet. :lol

[Dex]

Too early to pull the plug. These Spurs have made more miraculous comebacks than that this very season. More importantly, it does nothing to reinforce the "never say die" attitude that this team has otherwise displayed prominently.

I guess with only 4 losses, Pop figures he can't go on a tirade and get in player's faces (and have them take him seriously) if they don't face a few more. Generally speaking, I'd say that's just wasting the player's effort to make a point.

After that lackluster effort though, that team deserved the L through and through. And they deserve whatever reaming is coming to them right now in the locker room.

Season Ws are great, but only going to supplement the disappointment if that is what we can expect come playoff time.

[DieHardSpursFan1537]

It's Pop........he does this shit sometimes.

[ElNono]

There's no question that the effort on D was not there, and they deserved the L... but why help it? Let them play and lose, then get in their faces.

[ChuckD]

I called this shit when he did it against Orlando. In that game, at least the game seemed out of reach. It's really bullshit. He can send all the messages he wants in the film session tomorrow. Or when we get blown out next time.

If he really want to rest the big 3 in the big picture, the bottom line is we need to win games. Winning means not quitting games where you still have a chance.

What message is he going to send? We didn't play D? You don't think vets with 10+ years of experience don't know? It's bullshit.

??? The Spurs had no chance in this game at the point he pulled the plug

[timvp]

I thought the effort was there on defense. The problems were more related to strategy and execution. I lost count how many wrong rotations there were. It seemed like the Spurs spent more time running into each other rather than getting in the way of a Knick.

[polandprzem]

What chance in those 3 mins spurs had?

They were outmatched badly all night long. All of sudden they would flip the switch?


All night long with no real result in success - Pop got pissed

[Dex]

I thought the effort was there on defense. The problems were more related to strategy and execution. I lost count how many wrong rotations there were. It seemed like the Spurs spent more time running into each other rather than getting in the way of a Knick.

That one play where the two Spurs literally tumbled over each other while a Knick (Chandler?) waltzed down the lane for a layup seriously called for Three Stooges music.

[polandprzem]

There's no question that the effort on D was not there, and they deserved the L... but why help it? Let them play and lose, then get in their faces.
And then say that Pop screwed it up because he played starters all night and Boston game is 2morrow

[ElNono]

??? The Spurs had no chance in this game at the point he pulled the plug

10 points, 3 minutes left? Ofcourse they had a shot. Especially against a team that was playing no D...

[ElNono]

And then say that Pop screwed it up because he played starters all night and Boston game is 2morrow

Really? They're gassed already. 90 more seconds ain't going to make or brake tomorrow's game. Resting players had nothing to do with why he pulled the plug.

[Kori Ellis]

All season long, I have been telling timvp that this Spurs team is tallying a lot of wins, but a lot of fluke wins. They have had a bunch of lucky comeback victories. They have caught a lot of teams shorthanded. I jokingly (maybe not) call this team the Fluke Spurs.

To stop being the Fluke Spurs, they need to get a lot better on D. Pop might have pulled the plug early, but it's for the best. What good would a fluke comeback have done? It would have put another W on the board, but the Spurs would continue to still have an inflated sense of how good they are.

They aren't good enough to do any damage in the playoffs. And I know... playoffs aren't in January, yada, yada, yada. But to get hungry, they have to stop winning all the time. :lol I know it sounds stupid. And you can say they are professionals, they don't get complacent, etc. However, when you have the best record in the league, you aren't hungry.

I hope they go on a four-game skid.

[ElNono]

The reality is the we play the Knicks twice a season. So the fact that they beat us is not really what pisses me off. It's the fact that you still have a shot at the game and you simply quit on it.

[polandprzem]

Really? They're gassed already. 90 more seconds ain't going to make or brake tomorrow's game. Resting players had nothing to do with why he pulled the plug.

I'm talking about criticism and not resting starters

[Bartleby]

I hope they go on a four-game skid.

The meltdown here would be epic.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I just hope tonight's loss wakes up the team for tomorrow's game.

I'd much rather lose to the Knicks and beat the Celtics than vice versa.

[jag]

You should know better, LJ. He's had maybe the Clippers game as an opportunity to lay into them after a loss and thats about it. This has nothing to do with being tired or tomorrow nights game and everything to do with Pop seeing an opportunity to remind his team that they actually have to show up and play defense if they want a chance to win.

Good post

[Muser]

Calling it now.. Spurs win big tomorrow.

[ElNono]

I think you send those kind of messages when you lose against other contenders out there, not a team that you rarely see... thing is, the Spurs haven't been giving him many opportunities :lol

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I hope they go on a four-game skid.

Funny thing is, Spurs could do a 4 game skid and still find themselves only one game out of the top spot in the NBA :lol

[ALVAREZ6]

All season long, I have been telling timvp that this Spurs team is tallying a lot of wins, but a lot of fluke wins. They have had a bunch of lucky comeback victories. They have caught a lot of teams shorthanded. I jokingly (maybe not) call this team the Fluke Spurs.

To stop being the Fluke Spurs, they need to get a lot better on D. Pop might have pulled the plug early, but it's for the best. What good would a fluke comeback have done? It would have put another W on the board, but the Spurs would continue to still have an inflated sense of how good they are.

They aren't good enough to do any damage in the playoffs. And I know... playoffs aren't in January, yada, yada, yada. But to get hungry, they have to stop winning all the time. :lol I know it sounds stupid. And you can say they are professionals, they don't get complacent, etc. However, when you have the best record in the league, you aren't hungry.

I hope they go on a four-game skid.
I agree with all but the final sentence, great post.


We can't let the Spurs record inflate our egos, you're damn right a lot of those wins were bullshit.

[ElNono]

I'm talking about criticism and not resting starters

So what does playing back2back against Boston has to do with it?

[polandprzem]

So what does playing back2back against Boston has to do with it?

Jeezaz :rolleyes

[ElNono]

Jeezaz :rolleyes

:lol

[Dex]

They aren't good enough to do any damage in the playoffs. And I know... playoffs aren't in January, yada, yada, yada. But to get hungry, they have to stop winning all the time. :lol I know it sounds stupid. And you can say they are professionals, they don't get complacent, etc. However, when you have the best record in the league, you aren't hungry.


Kori with the goods.

Everybody knows that Pop is not a "positive reinforcement" kind of coach. At this rate, Pop won't even get a CHANCE to play the soft card.

He's been nagging the record all season and, publicly, been criticizing their defense for a while now. But even that didn't come up until their loss to the Magic: another one of Pop's teaching moments.

Players aren't going to push themselves if they think they have already arrived, thus there will be no improvement. Furthermore, it has to be hard to enforce all of the things they are doing wrong, when in the back of their mind, human nature is reminding them "But we're best in the league, coach!"

Losses suck, but are necessary if this is actually going to be a process.

[rascal]

All season long, I have been telling timvp that this Spurs team is tallying a lot of wins, but a lot of fluke wins. They have had a bunch of lucky comeback victories. They have caught a lot of teams shorthanded. I jokingly (maybe not) call this team the Fluke Spurs.

To stop being the Fluke Spurs, they need to get a lot better on D. Pop might have pulled the plug early, but it's for the best. What good would a fluke comeback have done? It would have put another W on the board, but the Spurs would continue to still have an inflated sense of how good they are.

They aren't good enough to do any damage in the playoffs. And I know... playoffs aren't in January, yada, yada, yada. But to get hungry, they have to stop winning all the time. :lol I know it sounds stupid. And you can say they are professionals, they don't get complacent, etc. However, when you have the best record in the league, you aren't hungry.

I hope they go on a four-game skid.

I agree. Same things I have been saying that the Spurs record is better than they really are. They are still short one quality big.

[polandprzem]

:lol

All I meant is that Pop would be criticised either he would sit starters or not.


peace man - I'll try to get at least 60 minutes of sleep :flag::sleep:flag:

[rascal]

The reality is the we play the Knicks twice a season. So the fact that they beat us is not really what pisses me off. It's the fact that you still have a shot at the game and you simply quit on it.

The spurs had no shot in this game the way they were playing. Pop saw that and pulled the starters. Its not that difficult to understand.

[ElNono]

peace man

peace polar

I ain't even mad about the loss. Just the pulling the plug early act.

:toast

[ElNono]

The spurs had no shot in this game the way they were playing. Pop saw that and pulled the starters. Its not that difficult to understand.

We played like this before this season and still won. You can call them fluke wins if you want. 10 points and 3 mins means you have a shot.

What's your point?

[rascal]

We played like this before this season and still won. You can call them fluke wins if you want. 10 points and 3 mins means you have a shot.

What's your point?

There was no shot in this game. The spurs were not focused and did not bring the necessary effort tonight.
Its a long season and every team will have these type of games where the team does not put out a good effort especially on the road after a long flight.

[ShoogarBear]

Pop was happy as a clam during the post-game.

[Solid D]

The Spurs were out-hustled most of the game. Even when the Spurs were slightly out-shooting the Knicks percentage-wise, the second chance points and FTs kept the lead for NY.

With 5 minutes left, when Douglas and Felton made those consecutive corner threes right in front of Pop...and as much as Pop hates his guys giving up corner 3s....I thought coach would blow a gasket. Then the icing on the cake was when Fields out-hustled 3 guys for a rebound and STAT got an easy 3 footer, Greggory had seen enough. At that point, how many of you had not seen enough?

[ElNono]

There was no shot in this game. The spurs were not focused and did not bring the necessary effort tonight.
Its a long season and every team will have these type of games where the team does not put out a good effort especially on the road after a long flight.

Yeah, they should have traded Manu when he had value :rolleyes

[Crookshanks]

Pop was pissed and he pulled the starters to make a statement. You can bet they're going to hear it tonight and tomorrow. And I'll bet this game tape gets LOTS of play in the coming weeks! The guys were lacking energy, focus and urgency. There's only so much a coach can do in the course of a game - and Pop said screw it - ya'll sit down and watch this travesty!

[EricB]

He could've played the starting 5 48 minutes, they werent winning that game.

[toki9]

The Knicks tonight looked a lot like how the Bucks used to beat the Spurs...hitting a lot of mid-range jumpers...

And the Spurs didn't look focused at all...Pop probably expected a split on this back-to-back and figured he'd pull the plug early on this one and rip into the team for tomorrow...hopefully the Spurs D will improve for tomorrow night

[EricB]

The Spurs were out-hustled most of the game. Even when the Spurs were slightly out-shooting the Knicks percentage-wise, the second chance points and FTs kept the lead for NY.

With 5 minutes left, when Douglas and Felton made those consecutive corner threes right in front of Pop...and as much as Pop hates his guys giving up corner 3s....I thought coach would blow a gasket. Then the icing on the cake was when Fields out-hustled 3 guys for a rebound and STAT got an easy 3 footer, Greggory had seen enough. At that point, how many of you had not seen enough?


Whos the one to start bagging 3s, Manu? who was shooting retarded fallaway 20 footers and had more assists to the Knicks than his own team?

They were not winning that game. Period.

[DesignatedT]

shoulda pulled the plug earlier tbh.

[Dex]

The Spurs were out-hustled most of the game. Even when the Spurs were slightly out-shooting the Knicks percentage-wise, the second chance points and FTs kept the lead for NY.

With 5 minutes left, when Douglas and Felton made those consecutive corner threes right in front of Pop...and as much as Pop hates his guys giving up corner 3s....I thought coach would blow a gasket. Then the icing on the cake was when Fields out-hustled 3 guys for a rebound and STAT got an easy 3 footer, Greggory had seen enough. At that point, how many of you had not seen enough?

lol Greggory Popovich

[Cane]

The Spurs were out-hustled most of the game. Even when the Spurs were slightly out-shooting the Knicks percentage-wise, the second chance points and FTs kept the lead for NY.

With 5 minutes left, when Douglas and Felton made those consecutive corner threes right in front of Pop...and as much as Pop hates his guys giving up corner 3s....I thought coach would blow a gasket. Then the icing on the cake was when Fields out-hustled 3 guys for a rebound and STAT got an easy 3 footer, Greggory had seen enough. At that point, how many of you had not seen enough?

Yup the game's momentum went the Suns..erm Knicks way after those costly defensive lapses. Down by 10 the Spurs looked gassed and bamboozled against the Knicks' ball movement, confidence, and athleticism/energy.

I think Tony Parker was holding his left knee from the contact on that shooting foul before he got subbed out but maybe it was a different player. If it was TP then thats just another reason to pull the plug.

Definitely not looking forward to the back to back against Boston even without KG but then again this ballcub has shown they don't like to lose so here's hoping for a turnaround game!

:flag:

P.S. A healthy James Anderson would've been great for this game, hopefully he can heal up. His athleticism, big guard/SF build, 3 point ability, and flashes of good defense....would've been a good option and gives us hardcore fans a reminder of whats missing with our roster nowadays.

[ElNono]

With 5 minutes left, when Douglas and Felton made those consecutive corner threes right in front of Pop...and as much as Pop hates his guys giving up corner 3s....I thought coach would blow a gasket. Then the icing on the cake was when Fields out-hustled 3 guys for a rebound and STAT got an easy 3 footer, Greggory had seen enough. At that point, how many of you had not seen enough?

It was frustrating from the get go. I mean, I understand what you mean by that sequence, but the ineptitude was a constant this game.

[diego]

its a slippery slope. basketball is a game of confidence and a four game losing streak would be really bad for the spurs shooters (especially the 3pt shooters who have been so important this year).

but when you have too many flukey comebacks, it can go from confidence to overconfidence really quick. in that sense, I understand why pop let them lose. its easier to learn from a loss than a win. i'm just not sure its the best way to do it, especially when the whole point is to teach them to never say die and compete till the end.

in soccer here its a common phrase, you don't learn from wins. the players may well think to themselves they can win playing bad if only pop lets them. pop is giving them a slap to the face instead of letting them make a fool. I'm not sure which is worse, nor who is responsible for the decision- they are a team. but i think it's important for this team to get to the playoffs very confident. both the old and the young guys have to be reminded they are capable of being the best. I don't like the idea of pacing and monitoring minutes and experimenting to the point of not having a steady lineup. in that sense, i'd rather pop let them lose on the court.

[BlairForceDejuan]

Spurs were done. Perfect time to throw in the towel imo.

Spurs should have played some god damned defense tonight and thrown in the towel at the start of tomorrow nights game though. What a waste of energy for a lackluster performance on D.

[ElNono]

Pop just starting his campaign to avoid coaching the ASG, tbh

[SouthTexasRancher]

Damn, you can't win em all but, damn'it these were the D'Antoni Knickettes! What the hell were our guys thinking on the way to the Garden? :sleep:sleep:sleep

[Capt Bringdown]

At that point, how many of you had not seen enough?

3 minutes is too early to quit. Make a coupla stops, hit a coupla threes, one should never give up when playing against the New York Suns.

[Josepatches_]

Usually I have no problem when Pop waves the white flag early but down ten with 3:15 to go against these Knicks. There are a ton of possessions left. Heck, in the next minute a few threes go down and the Spurs are right there.

I understand the back-to-back against the Celtics is looming but WTF. Another 1:30 wouldn't hurt anything and at this pace, that could be another five possessions.

Weird end to a crazy game.

True.

We suck all the game but this is basketball.The game can change with 2 plays.

[DPG21920]

Sometimes, you have to instill a mindset, a can't quit attitude. Pop is the king of quitting. Some call it smart. Some hate it.

It just depends on your point of view. Tonight felt more like quitting than any other time I can remember.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

ehhhh losing 4 games would be a disaster, but I do hope they regain the fire after this loss.

[silverblackfan]

Pop saw Tony hit the floor and thought "injury on a loss would suck" so he pulled them all. Fuck it. Orlando did the same thing to us. It happens. The Knicks won't get anywhere like that. Hey though, it raises people's stat lines. 29-5... I'll take it.

Blair did ok.

Thought the same and Blair did play well on offense, except for a few early mid-range shots. No one played defense.

[DMC]

Pop doesn't play for the game win, but for the season win. Tonight's game was just a pawn on the board. No need to waste energy and risk losing a major piece for that long shot. Regroup, attack the Celtics tomorrow.

[timaios]

3 minutes is too early to quit. Make a coupla stops, hit a coupla threes, one should never give up when playing against the New York Suns.

:lmao:lmao:lmao

Seriously, in 15 years I never saw a Spurs game where the opposite team made basket after basket after basket...
When the Knicks weren't scoring it was not because of the Spurs defense but because you can't shoot 100%.

It was unreal... and disgusting !


And i think Pop benched the big 3 because he wanted them to be pissed off, i mean REALLY PISSED OFF.
Manu was mad on the bench, we all know what to expect from him tomorrow ! :ihit

[mingus]

All season long, I have been telling timvp that this Spurs team is tallying a lot of wins, but a lot of fluke wins. They have had a bunch of lucky comeback victories. They have caught a lot of teams shorthanded. I jokingly (maybe not) call this team the Fluke Spurs.

To stop being the Fluke Spurs, they need to get a lot better on D. Pop might have pulled the plug early, but it's for the best. What good would a fluke comeback have done? It would have put another W on the board, but the Spurs would continue to still have an inflated sense of how good they are.

They aren't good enough to do any damage in the playoffs. And I know... playoffs aren't in January, yada, yada, yada. But to get hungry, they have to stop winning all the time. :lol I know it sounds stupid. And you can say they are professionals, they don't get complacent, etc. However, when you have the best record in the league, you aren't hungry.

I hope they go on a four-game skid.

i agree 100%. i've been in agreement all along--through the major winning streaks and all that. you say something regarding their "flukeness" or "luck" and point out they need to make changes or do things better, and the idiots flock to your posts and reply "they're 39-2, who cares," or "but they won, so be happy." some people just have two cent brains.

anyway, like i said youre completely right in your analysis. i've been speculative for a while about this team, it's nice to see people with that same sentiment. the blind optimism on this site is getting nauseating (sp?).

[Ice009]

Usually I have no problem when Pop waves the white flag early but down ten with 3:15 to go against these Knicks. There are a ton of possessions left. Heck, in the next minute a few threes go down and the Spurs are right there.

I understand the back-to-back against the Celtics is looming but WTF. Another 1:30 wouldn't hurt anything and at this pace, that could be another five possessions.

Weird end to a crazy game.

When Pop started pulling the plug a year or two ago is when the Spurs started sucking. The reason we've won games this season is because we've never pulled the plug and kept playing. This back to back excuse is bullshit. You put in a pathetic effort defensively then you don't deserve to get early rest. He should have definitely let them play another minute or two then I have no problem with getting all the starters off the court.

[mingus]

as for whether or not they would should have pulled the plug...there was what 3:15 left in the game when he took everyone out and the Spurs were down like 10? i don't agree with quiting that early. you set up 3-point opportunities/plays for Bonner and Neal and hope they go 2/2 or even 3/3 in the next 3 possessions and get stops. then it's a one or two possession game with 2 mins left, and very winnable. if you're still down 10 by 2:00 mins in the game, then call it a game. but the Spurs are the best 3-point shooting team in the league and the tide can change quickly because of that. it has already this year (ie against the Magic and the Suns earlier in year). last year, i can see it, but this year we're too talented to just give up that early.

[LongtimeSpursFan]

I'm fine with it. We were not going to win this game. Ginobili flopping on fadeaway jumpers with 6 mins to go only down 8?

Blasphemy.

Parker had 20 points in the 1st half and 6 points the rest of the way.

George Hill had 3 or 4 shots from 3 feet away and he made an unnecessary extra pass.

Knicks had over 20 points off turnovers

And to add to all that, they were genuinely hot tonight. Felton, Amare, and Chandler were all sizzling hot.

We were going to lose. Let Pop bruise their ego even more like Manny says and get these fuckers fired up and remembering how to win basketball games.

Word!

[SpursFanFirst]

I didn't get to watch the game, but I followed the score.
We were behind all night, from what I recall, and couldn't seem to break that 2-point barrier. I even said to my co-worker that I felt a loss coming.

I just don't think the team had it tonight, so I didn't have a problem with Pop calling it quits...But again, I was watching the box score and not the actual game. Maybe it looked different on tv.

[LongtimeSpursFan]

Sometimes you're just going to catch a team that is playing lights out. Pop just saw that there is nothing you can do to disrupt a team when they playing the way the Knicks did tonight. Take the loss and move onto the next game.

[Capt Bringdown]

Pop doesn't play for the game win, but for the season win.

If you look at the recent Celtics/Lakers championship, HCA has been vital, critical, really, really important etc.

And I got a feeling that it's going to be a tight race for HCA this year, and again it'll be very important.
We're not a perfect team by far, so we'll need to claw and scratch for every advantage we can.
You never know until you try, that's what bugs me about quitting. Perhaps it's likely that we would have lost even if we kept trying, but we'll never know.

[DMC]

as for whether or not they would should have pulled the plug...there was what 3:15 left in the game when he took everyone out and the Spurs were down like 10? i don't agree with quiting that early. you set up 3-point opportunities/plays for Bonner and Neal and hope they go 2/2 or even 3/3 in the next 3 possessions and get stops. then it's a one or two possession game with 2 mins left, and very winnable. if you're still down 10 by 2:00 mins in the game, then call it a game. but the Spurs are the best 3-point shooting team in the league and the tide can change quickly because of that. it has already this year (ie against the Magic and the Suns earlier in year). last year, i can see it, but this year we're too talented to just give up that early.

So you put up all that energy to win and you don't. The next night you go as a defeated team into an arena where the opposition is ready to rip your heart out. OR... you pull the plug and let the team know that sometimes the other team just shoots the damn ball like crazy and you tell them to tighten the D, but everything else was pretty damn good.

[DMC]

If you look at the recent Celtics/Lakers championship, HCA has been vital, critical, really, really important etc.

And I got a feeling that it's going to be a tight race for HCA this year, and again it'll be very important.
We're not a perfect team by far, so we'll need to claw and scratch for every advantage we can.
You never know until you try, that's what bugs me about quitting. Perhaps it's likely that we would have lost even if we kept trying, but we'll never know.

It's really easy say that from your desk. If you had to board a plane and get ready for the defending Eastern champs, you would probably see it as time to lay it down as well.

[mytespurs]

All season long, I have been telling timvp that this Spurs team is tallying a lot of wins, but a lot of fluke wins. They have had a bunch of lucky comeback victories. They have caught a lot of teams shorthanded. I jokingly (maybe not) call this team the Fluke Spurs.

To stop being the Fluke Spurs, they need to get a lot better on D. Pop might have pulled the plug early, but it's for the best. What good would a fluke comeback have done? It would have put another W on the board, but the Spurs would continue to still have an inflated sense of how good they are.

They aren't good enough to do any damage in the playoffs. And I know... playoffs aren't in January, yada, yada, yada. But to get hungry, they have to stop winning all the time. :lol I know it sounds stupid. And you can say they are professionals, they don't get complacent, etc. However, when you have the best record in the league, you aren't hungry.

I hope they go on a four-game skid.

While I'm happily surprised by the Spurs good start, I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop. It is a long season andI expect the Spurs to fall back into the pack as the season progresses and be in a fight to get one of the top seeds in the West.

Their skid may have started tonight. I expect them to lose in a hard fought battle tomorrow night against the Celtics.

[DPG21920]

I think most of us knew the Spurs had a lot of work to do. Lets just see how they progress throughout the year.

Every team has bad games, you just don't want to see the same glaring problems over and over again.

[Capt Bringdown]

It's really easy say that from your desk. If you had to board a plane and get ready for the defending Eastern champs, you would probably see it as time to lay it down as well.

Ahh, the old "you're not a player/coach, so how could you know" card. AKA the most fallacious card in the deck.

Is it any easier or harder from your desk to express your opinion?
It isn't, and it's not about me or you - it's about the matter at hand.

Ad hominem:Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument.

[jimo2305]

ppl just dont' get it..

the knicks were on fire.. they don't just start missin' shots 3 mins left to go in the game..

[duncan228]

Buck Harvey: Popovich’s message — forget the record (http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2011/01/04/buck-harvey-popovich%e2%80%99s-message-%e2%80%94-forget-the-record/)
Buck Harvey

NEW YORK — We’re riding in a freight elevator after the game, with equipment piled on carts next to us, and Manu Ginobili acts like a man ready to unpack everything.

If he could have pushed a button and returned to the appropriate Madison Square Garden floor for a rematch, he would have.

Instead, he’d been pulled. With more than three minutes left, with the Spurs trailing by 11 points and Tony Parker at the free-throw line, Ginobili and the other starters went to the bench.

“Of course,” Ginobili said in the freight elevator, “that upset me.”

But he’s been around long enough to know how Gregg Popovich works in these moments, and how he sends messages. Popovich doesn’t mind upsetting his guys, especially after watching them defend as they did.

This time, though, Popovich likely had an additional message.

Keep Reading... (http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2011/01/04/buck-harvey-popovich%e2%80%99s-message-%e2%80%94-forget-the-record/)

[Capt Bringdown]

Buck Harvey: Popovich’s message — forget the record (http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2011/01/04/buck-harvey-popovich%e2%80%99s-message-%e2%80%94-forget-the-record/)
Buck Harvey

NEW YORK — We’re riding in a freight elevator after the game, with equipment piled on carts next to us, and Manu Ginobili acts like a man ready to unpack everything.

If he could have pushed a button and returned to the appropriate Madison Square Garden floor for a rematch, he would have.

Instead, he’d been pulled. With more than three minutes left, with the Spurs trailing by 11 points and Tony Parker at the free-throw line, Ginobili and the other starters went to the bench.

“Of course,” Ginobili said in the freight elevator, “that upset me.”

But he’s been around long enough to know how Gregg Popovich works in these moments, and how he sends messages. Popovich doesn’t mind upsetting his guys, especially after watching them defend as they did.

This time, though, Popovich likely had an additional message.

Keep Reading... (http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2011/01/04/buck-harvey-popovich%e2%80%99s-message-%e2%80%94-forget-the-record/)


Popovich instead reacted again as maybe no other NBA coach does. He dismissed the slight chance of a comeback to make a larger point.

What exactly is the larger point? If you don't put out the proper effort, I'm going to force you to quit?

[TD 21]

Usually I have no problem when Pop waves the white flag early but down ten with 3:15 to go against these Knicks. There are a ton of possessions left. Heck, in the next minute a few threes go down and the Spurs are right there.

I understand the back-to-back against the Celtics is looming but WTF. Another 1:30 wouldn't hurt anything and at this pace, that could be another five possessions.

Weird end to a crazy game.

You missed the point. It was about sending a message, particularly to the top players. Obviously, there was a slight chance of still winning the game, but that was irrelevant at that point.

I have to say, I liked it. The defense was beyond deplorable and because of that, they didn't deserve a chance to see if they could still win the game. Also, you know they couldn't have liked it, so hopefully they stewed over it and don't have this "we were due to lose, you can't win 'em all" mentality.

This was a predictable outcome. The past few seasons, every time this team has put together an excellent stretch defensively, it's always short lived. They had dropped below 100 in defensive efficiency, so I knew they were going to have a game like this, so they can fall right back around 101, where they always seem to end up. I wasn't the least bit convinced that they had reached a new level defensively.

Kori, "they aren't good enough to do any damage in the playoffs"? Even if you don't think highly of the team, look around. At worst, they're one of the four teams most likely to win the championship.

[21_Blessings]

I'll take Phil's trolling over Pop's quitting any fucking day.

[Capt Bringdown]

If say, the Spurs were ahead by 20 pts at the 5 minute mark, and by the 3 minute mark the Knicks or whoever had closed the gap to 11, would Pop quit in order to send a message?

If not, why is it OK to quit when we're down?

[jjktkk]

I agree. Same things I have been saying that the Spurs record is better than they really are. They are still short one quality big.

Rascal you make it so easy. Now I know that every loss this year can be attributed to the Spurs lacking "one quality big". Thanks for the insight.

[DesignatedT]

There was nothing good going to come from that game. tbh a win down the stretch might have been worse for this team. They need to realize the defense needs major improvements and human nature is losing=more hard work.

[bongraider]

you all know pop is a quirky guy. he pulled the plug just because it's tuesday. (saw someone's sig)

[Hakeem Splitter]

What? We get to see Hakeem Splitter take over the game like he usually does.

:tu

[Amuseddaysleeper]

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs009.snc1/2867_77253056121_776786121_1671460_7147277_n.jpg

[TD 21]

If say, the Spurs were ahead by 20 pts at the 5 minute mark, and by the 3 minute mark the Knicks or whoever had closed the gap to 11, would Pop quit in order to send a message?

If not, why is it OK to quit when we're down?

A lot of times, it's not. But it depends on the situation. This was an embarrassing "effort" defensively and as such, Pop saw fit to send a message. It wasn't about "quitting" or "resting guys". It was about them not being good enough in this game and that mattering, despite the fact that they have a ridiculous record.

With the rotation they're playing, at least in the regular season (because of the limited minutes to some of their best defenders), they are what they are defensively. They've been right around where they are now for the last few seasons. They've constantly talked about it and they have a high IQ, hard working, committed team. Yet it hasn't mattered. So to think there's some significant improvement coming would be naive at this point.

A lot of people seem to think it's just effort related. That if they just "play hard" every game, they'll magically be a top five defensive team. It doesn't work that way, though. It's not so much about effort as it is personnel. It's partially the rotation they're using, but it's also the personnel in general.

[the cat's balls]

The whole team defended like a bunch of incontinent old maids.








Perhaps I'm giving them too much credit.






Incontinence would at least offer some deterance from constant penetration.
















:vomit:

[gospursgojas]

No biggie.

Pops more of a mind master than most think. Usually people think of the "zen master" as the guy who plays mind games, when mostly its just talking shit about everyone including his own team.

Pop knows how to get his mental message across.

[toki9]

I live in NYC and already there's a lot of chest thumping from the players and the media (OK, mostly the media. NY media and NY'ers can be so full of themselves) about what a great win this was for the Knicks (See this Chris Sheridan article: http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/columns/story?columnist=sheridan_chris&id=5990262). I'm so nauseated already.

[gospursgojas]

I live in NYC and already there's a lot of chest thumping from the players and the media (OK, mostly the media. NY media and NY'ers can be so full of themselves) about what a great win this was for the Knicks (See this Chris Sheridan article: http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/columns/story?columnist=sheridan_chris&id=5990262). I'm so nauseated already.

Expected. Its the Knicks. They won thier regular season championship tonight.

[mingus]

So you put up all that energy to win and you don't. The next night you go as a defeated team into an arena where the opposition is ready to rip your heart out. OR... you pull the plug and let the team know that sometimes the other team just shoots the damn ball like crazy and you tell them to tighten the D, but everything else was pretty damn good.

your argument is "let the team know the other team just shot well." okay?

there's no harm in keeping the guys in for a minute and a half longer to try to take the game away. The Spurs have shown all year long that they can turn the tide quickly--at New Olreans, at Phoenix, at Charlotte, vs. the Magic, at Minny. One of the reasons for doing so is because we're tops in 3-point shooting. run a 3 3-point plays. get Neal and Bonner those shots. do that successfully and get two stops and it's a one possession game and the Spurs have experience on their side to pull away at the end.

a minute and half more wouldn't have hurt. It's not like they sat out a whole quarter (ie. at Magic). Pop gave up merely to give up and that's why i don't agree with it. that extra minute of rest won't mean anything tomorrow. they'll be just as exhausted.

[Whisky Dog]

In 82 nights there will be a few where you just don't feel it. Tonight and Clippers games were two of those.

[Chillen]

It's a long season still, they were out played by the Knicks in the 4th quarter, Pop pulled the plug early since they play Boston in a back2back. The Spurs were handed their fifth loss of the season and still have the best record in the NBA, so really he knew the Knicks had the game in hand and has his sights on the Boston game which the Spurs have a good shot at winning.

[boutons_deux]

Pop loves to make dramatic "look at me" gestures.

Tonight they can play the "B2B, we're tired, of course" card, so Pop quitting so early will be a useless stunt, saving no energy while losing in BOS anyway.

[KenziE]

MOVE on its just one loss ... spoiled to the max

[ElNono]

There was nothing good going to come from that game. tbh a win down the stretch might have been worse for this team. They need to realize the defense needs major improvements and human nature is losing=more hard work.

Really? Winning is bad?

The things you read here...

[ElNono]

A lot of times, it's not. But it depends on the situation. This was an embarrassing "effort" defensively and as such, Pop saw fit to send a message. It wasn't about "quitting" or "resting guys". It was about them not being good enough in this game and that mattering, despite the fact that they have a ridiculous record.

With the rotation they're playing, at least in the regular season (because of the limited minutes to some of their best defenders), they are what they are defensively. They've been right around where they are now for the last few seasons. They've constantly talked about it and they have a high IQ, hard working, committed team. Yet it hasn't mattered. So to think there's some significant improvement coming would be naive at this point.

A lot of people seem to think it's just effort related. That if they just "play hard" every game, they'll magically be a top five defensive team. It doesn't work that way, though. It's not so much about effort as it is personnel. It's partially the rotation they're using, but it's also the personnel in general.

What message is Tim Duncan going to receive after 10+ seasons in the league? You don't think he knows what happened? He received the same message a bunch of times over the years. Do you really think that quitting games is going to fire him up? He was going to hear it after the game regardless, and he's fully aware that this team needs to improve defensively.

These are not 10 year olds or a bunch of rooks.

[jag]

Really? Winning is bad?

The things you read here...

Is that really how you understood his comment?

really?

[ElNono]

your argument is "let the team know the other team just shot well." okay?

there's no harm in keeping the guys in for a minute and a half longer to try to take the game away. The Spurs have shown all year long that they can turn the tide quickly--at New Olreans, at Phoenix, at Charlotte, vs. the Magic, at Minny. One of the reasons for doing so is because we're tops in 3-point shooting. run a 3 3-point plays. get Neal and Bonner those shots. do that successfully and get two stops and it's a one possession game and the Spurs have experience on their side to pull away at the end.

a minute and half more wouldn't have hurt. It's not like they sat out a whole quarter (ie. at Magic). Pop gave up merely to give up and that's why i don't agree with it. that extra minute of rest won't mean anything tomorrow. they'll be just as exhausted.

this

It's not about the loss. It's the fact that he didn't even call a timeout and tried to run a play for an open 3 when the game was still within reach. Just quit to send whatever 'message'.

[Trill Clinton]

I didn't have a problem with it. They weren't getting it done last night so there was no need of them using all of their energy just to try to keep the game close.

I'd rather have them rested for the Boston game anyways.

[urunobili]

I would have pulled them out at the beginning of the 4th....

BTW this is it:


He wanted RJ to have time to catch his breath so he could say something clever about the Celtics.

[ElNono]

Is that really how you understood his comment?

really?

You tell me. Does winning on a fluke is bad now? I mean, we've been doing it a lot this season as Kori pointed it out.

A win is a win is a win. Maybe in your book it isn't.

Could you please translate what 'tbh a win down the stretch might have been worse for this team.' really meant?

[jag]

You tell me. Does winning on a fluke is bad now? I mean, we've been doing it a lot this season as Kori pointed it out.

A win is a win is a win. Maybe in your book it isn't.

Could you please translate what 'tbh a win down the stretch might have been worse for this team.' really meant?

Why would I tell you how you understood it?

Did you understand that comment to mean "winning is bad"?

[alchemist]

not mad at Pop at all, Knicks shot the ball so well they couldn't miss if they tried.

[ElNono]

Why would I tell you how you understood it?

Did you understand that comment to mean "winning is bad"?

You already know how I understood it, that's why you replied in the first place.

My rationale is pretty simple:
- We lost the game.
- That's bad on a sport whose sole objective is winning.
- Somebody points out that 'a win down the stretch might have been worse for this team'.
- My natural reaction is: Worse than losing? Worse than bad?

But do please tell me. What's wrong with that rationale?

[jag]

You already know how I understood it, that's why you replied in the first place.

My rationale is pretty simple:
- We lost the game.
- That's bad on a sport whose sole objective is winning.
- Somebody points out that 'a win down the stretch might have been worse for this team'.
- My natural reaction is: Worse than losing? Worse than bad?

But do please tell me. What's wrong with that rationale?


There was nothing good going to come from that game. tbh a win down the stretch might have been worse for this team. They need to realize the defense needs major improvements and human nature is losing=more hard work.

I guess that means understood this post to mean "winning is bad". In that case there's no reason for anyone to explain why this loss may be better in the long run. It's already been explained, you simply don't understand it.

[lefty]

Pop wanted to make sure his players got a standing ovation for allowing the Knicks to win a game

[VI_Massive]

I was at the game (always wanted to say that!) and I was kind of surprised when Pop threw the subs in but I had been watching Timmy in the 4th and I hate to say this but he wasn't getting up and down the court well. I don't know if this was a night the knee was acting up or if he was just generally fatigued or what, but his mobility did not look great.

That factor, plus a looming back to back, plus the desire to send a message to the team that they couldn't win playing that way all added up, IMO, to Pop's conclusion that it was better to just pack it in.

[ElNono]

I guess that means understood this post to mean "winning is bad". In that case there's no reason for anyone to explain why this loss may be better in the long run. It's already been explained, you simply don't understand it.

Maybe you can explain to me how losing is better than winning in the long run?
Under that rationale we should really be trying to lose every game.
Perhaps there's nothing to understand because it really makes no sense?

Losing happens. I'm not particularly bothered by the loss itself. It's the fact that people rationalize losing as a good thing that makes no sense to me.

[jag]

Maybe you can explain to me how losing is better than winning in the long run?
Under that rationale we should really be trying to lose every game.
Perhaps there's nothing to understand because it really makes no sense?

Losing happens. I'm not particularly bothered by the loss itself. It's the fact that people rationalize losing as a good thing that makes no sense to me.

It’s already been explained; you just don’t understand it or don’t agree with it. I certainly hope you’re playing dumb, in which case you’d be really good at it. If you’re simply incapable of understanding the reasoning behind it, then I’m sorry.

[ElNono]

It’s already been explained; you just don’t understand it or don’t agree with it. I certainly hope you’re playing dumb, in which case you’d be really good at it. If you’re simply incapable of understanding the reasoning behind it, then I’m sorry.

I already stated I don't agree with the reasoning. It's plastered all over this thread. I certainly hope you’re playing dumb, in which case you’d be really good at it. If you’re simply incapable of reading the thread, then I’m sorry.

[jag]

I already stated I don't agree with the reasoning. It's plastered all over this thread. I certainly hope you’re playing dumb, in which case you’d be really good at it. If you’re simply incapable of reading the thread, then I’m sorry.

Playing dumb in regard to what?

Did you not say:


Really? Winning is bad?

The things you read here...

Since the reasoning is "plastered all over this thread", I guess it's safe to assume you read the entire thread and understood the reasoning to mean "winning is bad". That obviously isn't the reasoning behind people thinking this loss could actually benefit the Spurs in the long run. So it's apparent you need things explained to you in a thread longer than five pages and I don't have the time for that.

[BlairForceDejuan]

Ya'll are overreacting about this white towel last night. I used to get pissed seasons ago when Pop would quit in the 3rd, but last night was different. The Spurs were not going to stop the Knicks. That was clear as day. When he finally quit, the Knicks were in complete ownage mode. There was not even a .01% chance the Spurs were going to win that game.

The Spurs are 29-5. They can afford it. The Mavs won 67 games in a season and still got owned. It's not a big deal.

[cheguevara]

they weren't able to stop the knicks for the first 45 minutes. What in the world makes you guys think the last 3 minutes were gona be any different?

[DMC]

this

It's not about the loss. It's the fact that he didn't even call a timeout and tried to run a play for an open 3 when the game was still within reach. Just quit to send whatever 'message'.

Pop called timeouts all game to make adjustments. No one stopped the ball from getting to the rim. Bonner was totally ineffective, refused to shoot fairly open shots. Gary Neal was hitting the front of the rim all night. Manu was Kobe on steroids. Tim couldn't do much either. No one could stop the ball on defense. A timeout at that juncture wouldn't have made a difference. What magical potion was Pop going to employ? If anything the team gets down by 15 or more and it turns into a blowout.

I trust Pop knows what he's doing, and that most here don't.

[ElNono]

Playing dumb in regard to what?

Why would I tell you why you are playing dumb?


Did you not say:

I did.


Since the reasoning is "plastered all over this thread", I guess it's safe to assume you read the entire thread and understood the reasoning to mean "winning is bad".

You don't need to assume anything. You merely have to read the entire thread. It's right here and it's going nowhere. If you're lazy, that's not really my problem.


That obviously isn't the reasoning behind people thinking this loss could actually benefit the Spurs in the long run. So it's apparent you need things explained to you in a thread longer than five pages and I don't have the time for that.

I understand their rationale perfectly. I don't agree with it and I don't think it makes sense short or long term.

I'm in the opinion that sending messages by losing games where you still have a shot is not beneficial in the short nor long term. You could equate that to "winning is good" and "losing is bad". Conversely, some people think the opposite. That sending messages is more important in the long term than trying to win a particular game where you still have a shot at it. That, sometimes, "losing is good" or "winning is bad".

Apparently, you simply are too dumb or lazy to realize that nobody needed anything explained to them.

[jag]

If you understand the rationale perfectly then why make this comment?


Really? Winning is bad?

The things you read here...

[jag]

If you think it’s as simple as “winning is good”, “losing is bad”. Then you don’t understand as well as you think you do.

[ElNono]

If you understand the rationale perfectly then why make this comment?

Because he posted this:


tbh a win down the stretch might have been worse for this team.

Maybe you can tell me what you get out of that sentence?

[ElNono]

If you think it’s as simple as “winning is good”, “losing is bad”. Then you don’t understand as well as you think you do.

Why? It's an opinion. Ultimately that's what this game is all about.

Is your (supposedly differing) opinion somewhat more valuable?

[jag]

Why? It's an opinion. Ultimately that's what this game is all about.

Is your (supposedly differing) opinion somewhat more valuable?

I'm not sure what game you're referring to.

And where did I say my opinion was more valuable? You've tried to explain the reasoning of the opposing view as "winning is bad". You clearly don't understand. Or do you think you do?

[ElNono]

I'm not sure what game you're referring to.

Basketball.


And where did I say my opinion was more valuable?

If you can't recognize the difference between asking a question and making a claim, then you have larger problems.


You've tried to explain the reasoning of the opposing view as "winning is bad". You clearly don't understand.

Says who? You? I disagree.

[jag]

Says who? You? I disagree.

That's because you don't understand.

[jag]

Which is perfectly ok

[ElNono]

That's because you don't understand.

You can't prove that. Which means I understand perfectly.

Which is perfectly ok, tbh

[jag]

You already proved it, tbh.

[ohmwrecker]

You already proved it, tbh.


And I thought our argument was stupid . . .

[ElNono]

You already proved it, tbh.

Thank you for finally agreeing that I proved I understand :tu

[jag]

All season long, I have been telling timvp that this Spurs team is tallying a lot of wins, but a lot of fluke wins. They have had a bunch of lucky comeback victories. They have caught a lot of teams shorthanded. I jokingly (maybe not) call this team the Fluke Spurs.

To stop being the Fluke Spurs, they need to get a lot better on D. Pop might have pulled the plug early, but it's for the best. What good would a fluke comeback have done? It would have put another W on the board, but the Spurs would continue to still have an inflated sense of how good they are.

They aren't good enough to do any damage in the playoffs. And I know... playoffs aren't in January, yada, yada, yada. But to get hungry, they have to stop winning all the time. :lol I know it sounds stupid. And you can say they are professionals, they don't get complacent, etc. However, when you have the best record in the league, you aren't hungry.

I hope they go on a four-game skid.

I agree with all but the final sentence, great post.


We can't let the Spurs record inflate our egos, you're damn right a lot of those wins were bullshit.


Kori with the goods.

Everybody knows that Pop is not a "positive reinforcement" kind of coach. At this rate, Pop won't even get a CHANCE to play the soft card.

He's been nagging the record all season and, publicly, been criticizing their defense for a while now. But even that didn't come up until their loss to the Magic: another one of Pop's teaching moments.

Players aren't going to push themselves if they think they have already arrived, thus there will be no improvement. Furthermore, it has to be hard to enforce all of the things they are doing wrong, when in the back of their mind, human nature is reminding them "But we're best in the league, coach!"

Losses suck, but are necessary if this is actually going to be a process.


There was nothing good going to come from that game. tbh a win down the stretch might have been worse for this team. They need to realize the defense needs major improvements and human nature is losing=more hard work.


Really? Winning is bad?

The things you read here...

[jag]

You already proved you don't understand, tbh.

[ElNono]

You already proved you don't understand, tbh.

Prove it or STFU, tbh

[DMC]

Ya'll are overreacting about this white towel last night. I used to get pissed seasons ago when Pop would quit in the 3rd, but last night was different. The Spurs were not going to stop the Knicks. That was clear as day. When he finally quit, the Knicks were in complete ownage mode. There was not even a .01% chance the Spurs were going to win that game.

The Spurs are 29-5. They can afford it. The Mavs won 67 games in a season and still got owned. It's not a big deal.

The 72:10 Bulls got owned by Orlando one night. It happens to everyone.

Then again, I went 82 - 0 on my PS3 on NBA LIVE 2010, when I made all my team 7'4" with PG skills... So it's obviously possible if someone just paid attention to the instructions.

[ElNono]

FWIW, I also know how to use multi-quote:


Usually I have no problem when Pop waves the white flag early but down ten with 3:15 to go against these Knicks. There are a ton of possessions left. Heck, in the next minute a few threes go down and the Spurs are right there.

I understand the back-to-back against the Celtics is looming but WTF. Another 1:30 wouldn't hurt anything and at this pace, that could be another five possessions.

Weird end to a crazy game.


He wanted RJ to have time to catch his breath so he could say something clever about the Celtics.


The most annoying part about Pop wasn't the towel... it was the Zone defense.


Burn the tape LJ

[ElNono]

I get that you don't agree with the loss possibly benefiting the Spurs in the long term, but it doesn't help that you don't understand the reasoning behind that viewpoint.

I understand it. You keep claiming that I don't.

Prove that I don't. Be specific.

[jag]

I understand it. You keep claiming that I don't.

Prove that I don't. Be specific.

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4874209&postcount=162

[ElNono]

The quotes don't include any post from you.
So you didn't prove anything.

Furthermore, I dispute that those quote prove I don't understand.

Now please prove that I don't understand.

[jag]

I need to get at least some work done today.

Why do those quotes need to include posts of mine? If after the entire thread and all those comments i quoted, you boiled the argument down to "winning is bad". Then you clearly don't get it.

[ElNono]

I need to get at least some work done today.

Why do those quotes need to include posts of mine? If after the entire thread and all those comments i quoted, you boiled the argument down to "winning is bad". Then you clearly don't get it.

Because you're the one making the claim that I don't understand/don't get it.
Thus, the burden of proving that I don't understand is yours.

Stop beating around the bush and prove that I don't understand.

[jag]

Because you're the one making the claim that I don't understand/don't get it.
Thus, the burden of proving that I don't understand is yours.

Stop beating around the bush and prove that I don't understand.

As far as i'm concerned it's obvious you don't understand. Why do I have to prove that to you?
If you understood the logic behind the opposing argument why did you make this comment? That obviously isn't the rationale behind thinking the Spurs were better off losing that game. So why were you arguing against a point that was never made?


Really? Winning is bad?

The things you read here...

[duncan228]

Gregg Popovich played for the long term, not the win Tuesday (http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/05/gregg-popovich-played-for-the-long-term-not-the-win-tuesday/)
Kurt Helin

Be clear about this — the Knicks earned their victory over the Spurs. For the first time seemingly in memory, the Knicks pushed an elite team into their game. The Knicks hit their shots (ones provided by unusually poor defense from the Spurs, but the Knicks hit them). They made the plays. It’s a signature win for a young Knicks team and they should celebrate it.

But at the end of this game, Spurs coach Gregg Popovich made the move of a wise coach with a veteran team that has some scratching their heads, as Henry Abbott at TrueHoop pointed out (http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/23600/gregg-popovich-rests-his-players).


With 3:10 left in a game in New York, the Spurs down by ten and the game a longshot, but decidedly undecided, Popovich summoned from his bench three players who had not taken off their sweats all night: Chris Quinn, Ime Udoka and Tiago Splitter. They were to complete the Spurs’ comeback — or not, as it turned out — teamed with Matt Bonner and Gary Neal.

Sitting on the Spurs’ bench: Some of the greatest clutch performers in NBA history, including Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker. With the best players out there playing, maybe this was about to become three minutes for the ages. The Spurs have come back from bigger deficits in less time.

After this game, the Spurs hopped on a plane and flew to Boston, where they face the Celtics tonight. A back-to-back as games 34 and 35 in a long 82-games season. A regular season which is followed by what really matters — the playoffs.

It comes back to what the Celtics showed last season, going 11-11 in their last 22 but getting rested and healthy for the playoffs — then making a run all the way to Game 7 of the NBA finals. What really matters for veteran teams is taking care of themselves and reaching the playoffs in good condition.

If that means not throwing everything into a longshot at a comeback in early January, then so be it. Fans may not love it, the league may not love it, but it’s the reality in a six-month long regular season.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/05/gregg-popovich-played-for-the-long-term-not-the-win-tuesday/

[ElNono]

As far as i'm concerned it's obvious you don't understand. Why do I have to prove that to you?

Why keep making the claim if you can't back it up?


If you understood the logic behind the opposing argument why did you make this comment? That obviously isn't the rationale behind thinking the Spurs were better off losing that game.

Because I obviously do not agree with it. I don't agree with the notion that under any circumstances "winning is bad".


So why were you arguing against a point that was never made?

Did the original poster opine that maybe winning last night's game could have been worse than losing it? That's not a point made?

[balli]

I watched the game and my two cents are that SA might've won the game, but probably not and even though SA did lose, SA can afford to lose and that I side with Pop.

And yes, losing and resting does benefit the team in the long term.

[jag]

Winning in those conditions obviously would have been good for a number of reasons, namely the overall record. But long term the Spurs could actually benefit as a result of the starters being pulled and the team having to experience that loss. Oversimplifying the argument to “winning is bad” doesn’t exactly show you have a firm grasp of the reasoning behind seeing this loss as possibly having a positive long-term impact.

If you feel the need to convince Spursfan that winning is in fact good, then ok. But it seems you’ve missed the point.

[ElNono]

Winning in those conditions obviously would have been good for a number of reasons, namely the overall record. But long term the Spurs could actually benefit as a result of the starters being pulled and the team having to experience that loss.

Debatable. Which is what we did in this thread before you came around crying "you don't understand".

The players can experience the loss on the floor also, and it's entirely subjective what the perceived benefit could be long term. Furthermore, this team came into the season with the mantra of not wasting games early so they could be rested and be fresh for the postseason, and this is a game we simply threw away. Both the players with their play and the coach with the early white flag.


Oversimplifying the argument to “winning is bad” doesn’t exactly show you have a firm grasp of the reasoning behind seeing this loss as possibly having a positive long-term impact.

But THAT is the argument in this thread. Did Pop threw the towel too early?
One person went further and posited the argument that even if the Spurs would have pulled a win in those last 3 minutes, it would've been worse than losing. What is that if not "winning is bad"? it's a ridiculous argument.

I explained my reasoning and line of thought about that particular comment. Considering that you had nothing to retort about it, I have to assume it was the correct reasoning.


If you feel the need to convince Spursfan that winning is in fact good, then ok. But it seems you’ve missed the point.

I don't have to convince anybody. You don't agree with me, just say so.
The whole "you don't understand" argument is retarded.

[senorglory]

Bench those suckers. Coach reserves the right to sit anyone he needs to, no matter salary, all-star run, or status as revered veteran and franchise player... to a point. Spurs sucked in the 4th, Pop didn't cross the line sitting their asses.

Go Spurs!

[duncan228]

Classic Popovich: The San Antonio Spurs are nowhere near the same defensive team right now that they were during their championship years, but head coach Gregg Popovich still cares about the defensive side of things more than anything. That's why it sickened him yesterday to watch his team give up 128 points in a losing effort to the New York Knicks. Popovich was so upset with their defensive effort that he pulled his starters with three minutes to go despite being within three points.

"That's exactly what I felt," said Popovich after the game when asked if he thought it was out of reach at that point. "We have another game tomorrow. It's a long season. The chances of winning the game were not good."

While the chances of winning the game may not have been good, it was not impossible to say the least. But as Popovich pointed out, the Spurs have a game today and it's a big one. They take on the defending Eastern Conference champions in the Boston Celtics and he felt like his guys needed something to fire them up.

Manu Ginobili was visibly upset by his decision immediately afterwards and Tim Duncan was mum on his choice as well.

"We have a game tomorrow," said Duncan. "We're down 10 points with three minutes to go and just can't seem to get under that six point mark. He made a decision to pull us, we're ready to play for tomorrow."

Popovich has done this before in the past and it has worked out well for him. Nobody understands how to motivate his team better than he does, and an improved Spurs team should be expected tonight despite Popovich doing his best to downplay that possibility.

"I was pretty nice (to them after the game)," said Popovich. "I just asked if they could play a little better tomorrow. They said they'll think about it, so we'll see what happens."

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=18388

[Agloco]

Usually I have no problem when Pop waves the white flag early but down ten with 3:15 to go against these Knicks. There are a ton of possessions left. Heck, in the next minute a few threes go down and the Spurs are right there.

I understand the back-to-back against the Celtics is looming but WTF. Another 1:30 wouldn't hurt anything and at this pace, that could be another five possessions.

Weird end to a crazy game.

Wasn't happening. You could have blindfolded Felton and he still would have hit his shots. Saved our starters 3 minutes of floor time to prepare for Boston.

[slayermin]

I thought Pop pulled the plug too early. We probably don't win but I sure would've liked to see them give it a shot.

As bad as the score looked last night, it just seemed like every Knick was in a groove. They hit every open shot, every semi open shot, and almost all contested shots. The Spurs looked like they were giving an effort but the Knicks were just one step quicker on the offensive end. I don't think the Spurs were as bad as the score indicated. The Knicks were just red hot.

And as great as the Spurs defense seemed to be against OKC, I watched that game and I thought OKC just missed a lot of shots they normally hit. I didn't think the Spurs defense was as good as the final score suggested. I haven't rewatched either game so I maybe totally off. But that was my impressions of the last two games.

[Texas_Ranger]

The Knicks yesterday played the best game in like 30 years. They made every single shot from outside and inside. They will not have a game like that for the next 10 years against a team like the Spurs. In San Antonio we'll kick those fucking losers and that's all. And RJ was right, who gives a fuck about a team that did shit in the last 38 years. For a big market team they suck ass. At least the Lakers won something, but those Knicks are just a piece of shit.
When someone will say that the Kings are not that good will everybody go crazy in California?? Cause you know they did win a championship back in 1951!!
New York Knicks are a LOL and that's all.

[TD 21]

What message is Tim Duncan going to receive after 10+ seasons in the league? You don't think he knows what happened? He received the same message a bunch of times over the years. Do you really think that quitting games is going to fire him up? He was going to hear it after the game regardless, and he's fully aware that this team needs to improve defensively.

These are not 10 year olds or a bunch of rooks.

No, but they are competitive, prideful people. You don't think those guys weren't pissed and somewhat embarrassed being pulled from the game when it was still winnable?

It's the Celtics, so chances are they'd have been up for it anyway. But just in case they weren't going to be, you can bet they will be now.