Message From Above

[timvp]

Dear Pop,

You gave up last game with 3:15 to go down by 11 with a player at the line shooting two free throws. Tonight, you were down 9 with less than a minute to go and came within a Ginobili pass to a wide open McDyess of forcing overtime.

Feel our wrath.

Sincerely,

Gods of Basketball

[ShoogarBear]

Four rings, bidchess!

[MannyIsGod]

Dear Pop,

You gave up last game with 3:15 to go down by 11 with a player at the line shooting two free throws. Tonight, you were down 9 with less than a minute to go and came within a Ginobili pass to a wide open McDyess of forcing overtime.

Feel our wrath.

Sincerely,

Gods of Basketball

:lol

[MannyIsGod]

I bet Kori is happy they lost instead of another fluke win.

[Kori Ellis]

I bet Kori is happy they lost instead of another fluke win.

:lol I was cheering for a fluke win the closing seconds.

[L.I.T]

I'm hoping the GoBs go Old Testament and demand the sacrifice of a favored son.

It's been nice knowing yah Bonner.

[baseline bum]

Damn LJ... cold way to rub salt in the wounds.

[jag]

Doc made Pop look retarded tonight. Some of Doc's play calls were very impressive. Good luck trying to figure out what plays the Spurs were trying to run.

[Sisk]

This thread brought to you by lakaluva's month long exile from the NBA forum.

[4>0rings]

I'd rather the Spurs lose without the ending heroics, it only angered me more.

[ShoogarBear]

This thread brought to you by lakaluva's month long exile from the NBA forum.

:lmao

[MannyIsGod]

This thread brought to you by lakaluva's month long exile from the NBA forum.

:lmao

[G-Nob]

I just replayed the picknroll play to dice. Big baby locked him up and dice missed 1 of 2 FTs. Spurs still lose. Oh well.

[ElNono]

Props to the players for listening to the message sent yesterday and really playing hard nosed defense today

[timvp]

What's even more ironic is that some Spurs fans said it was right to quit last game because the Knicks were shooting too well. Tonight, the Celtics were shooting even better and the Spurs erased the lead in less than one-third of the time.

And this was against a championship contender ... not a D'Antoni squad.

[ohmwrecker]

On the last play . . . Manu looked for Dyess, but he was doubled by Daniels and Pierce. No clear passing lane. Then Baby had him covered.

[ElNono]

What did it end at? 60%? 62%

[ShoogarBear]

Actually, tonight the game was tied at the end of Popregulation and the Celtics won in Popovertime.

[Libri]

Dear Pop,

You gave up last game with 3:15 to go down by 11 with a player at the line shooting two free throws. Tonight, you were down 9 with less than a minute to go and came within a Ginobili pass to a wide open McDyess of forcing overtime.

Feel our wrath.

Sincerely,

Gods of Basketball

The Gods are angry. Someone must be sacrificed to appease them. lol

[4>0rings]

I just replayed the picknroll play to dice. Big baby locked him up and dice missed 1 of 2 FTs. Spurs still lose. Oh well.
Baby was busy battling Duncan, Dice walked INTO big baby towards the end. He was open the whole way though. If Manu doesn't wait and passes to Dice, Dice would of had an open jumper or have gone to the rim, baby would have to peel off Duncan to defend Dice leaving Duncan rolling to the rim for a dunk if passed too.

[jag]

Actually, tonight the game was tied at the end of Popregulation and the Celtics won in Popovertime.

:lol

[MannyIsGod]

What's even more ironic is that some Spurs fans said it was right to quit last game because the Knicks were shooting too well. Tonight, the Celtics were shooting even better and the Spurs erased the lead in less than one-third of the time.

And this was against a championship contender ... not a D'Antoni squad.

Tonight was a complete and utter fluke. Ray Allen missing two free throws? 2 late steals with no foul calls?

I don't really care either way. The Spurs had played great defense up until this point and I was sure that Spurstalk would implode at the first sign of a losing streak.

[Warlord23]

I don't mind. We deserved to lose both games. This team needs to wake the fuck up and start playing competitive D. Pop needs to wake the fuck up and fix his idiotic rotations. We richly deserve these and any future losses till we improve the D. The record is fool's gold. Executing in the last 2 minutes and getting lucky with a win at the end would have extended our bad habits.

[MannyIsGod]

Actually, tonight the game was tied at the end of Popregulation and the Celtics won in Popovertime.


:lmao

[baseline bum]

The Gods are angry. Someone must be sacrificed to appease them. lol

Apparently Udoka wasn't enough.

[Cane]

At least the Spurs amped up their defensive and overall energy level this time even though they still got abused. Tbh that could be attributed to Pop's pulling the starters last night so they get the message and to rest up a bit. Spurs can lose to anyone on a back to back so they were fortunate to be this close considering the insane numbers in this game.

Basketball Gods have been more than kind to the Spurs considering their health and record but they've also taken measures to get to that level this time around. Plenty of work to do but considering this was a back to back after the incredibly high octane Knicks game and that the Spurs have lost to horrible ballclubs on back to backs (Nets last year, Clippers earlier) they were lucky to be even this close.

Both clutch time performers choked big time in Ray Allen and Manu but the C's got the W.

C's are also a fantastic ballclub but I'd like to see Big Baby shoot lights out like that again.

[polandprzem]

What's even more ironic is that some Spurs fans said it was right to quit last game because the Knicks were shooting too well. Tonight, the Celtics were shooting even better and the Spurs erased the lead in less than one-third of the time.

And this was against a championship contender ... not a D'Antoni squad.

The difference is that Spurs players competed against Boston but did not against Knicks

The main reason

Read body language

[MannyIsGod]

One that that sucks is that every team in the NBA is going to bring their A game against the Spurs as long as they have the best record in the NBA.

[ElNono]

tbh, the reason we lost is that we stopped going to Bonner in the second half...

[Arc]

i swear to god, if the pacers shoot 50-60% i'm not watching another game.

[mingus]

yup, tonight you saw why you don't quit games when there's really no reason to do so. i hated that move by Pop yesterday and tonight gives it validity.

[baseline bum]

Hey timvp. is there a letter low enough for Hill's grade tonight? Double F? F square?

[polandprzem]

Fricking tbh again

First trap game all over the place and now tbh

[ohmwrecker]

What's even more ironic is that some Spurs fans said it was right to quit last game because the Knicks were shooting too well. Tonight, the Celtics were shooting even better and the Spurs erased the lead in less than one-third of the time.

And this was against a championship contender ... not a D'Antoni squad.

At least at the end of this game it looked like they wanted to win. It didn't seem that way in NYC. Too little, too late tonight.

Edit: Or, what Przem said.

[DPG21920]

Tonight was a complete and utter fluke. Ray Allen missing two free throws? 2 late steals with no foul calls?

I don't really care either way. The Spurs had played great defense up until this point and I was sure that Spurstalk would implode at the first sign of a losing streak.

Where is this great d you speak of?

[ElNono]

Fricking tbh again

First trap game all over the place and now tbh

This was a trap game, tbh

:lol

[MannyIsGod]

Fricking tbh again

First trap game all over the place and now tbh

Tbh, this wasn't a trap game.

[jag]

i swear to god, if the pacers shoot 50-60% i'm not watching another game.

Josh McRoberts is gonna go for 29 and 15. Book it

[ElNono]

lol Manny... second time in like a month... you're freaking me out :lol

[MannyIsGod]

Where is this great d you speak of?

Past few games I mean. Especially the OKC game.

[MannyIsGod]

lol Manny... second time in like a month... you're freaking me out :lol

:lol

[polandprzem]

So was it a trap game or not?

Tbh I don't get ya O' ppl

[DPG21920]

They played pretty good defense, but again, OKC was coming off a pretty tough schedule, like the Spurs v. Orlando.

Then they played Dallas with no Dirk.

[ohmwrecker]

BTW, nifty new format! I was posting from my phone during the game. Aces!

[EricB]

They played pretty good defense, but again, OKC was coming off a pretty tough schedule, like the Spurs v. Orlando.

Then they played Dallas with no Dirk.

What about against the Lakers?

[mytespurs]

They lost to, arguably, the best team in the East tonight by 2 points-no moral victories but at least they were competitive unlike last night when they should've beaten a mid tier opponent. Now that loss, to me, is more disappointing than losing to the Celtics.

Now that Spurs lost to Celts/Knicks back 2 back, I'm sure we'll start hearing the "overrated" and "not as good as their record" talk. But as with the other uppper echelon teams in the east/west, Spurs will go through their slump and will fall back in the pack & will fight for their lives as the season continues. . Spurs started strong but I think how they finish may give us a clue whether they'll be able to fight with the other big boys.

[polandprzem]

I want Splitter to start :)


Pop might just do that

[ShoogarBear]

Josh McRoberts is gonna go for 29 and 15. Book it

Sweet. Need the points for FL.

[MannyIsGod]

They played pretty good defense, but again, OKC was coming off a pretty tough schedule, like the Spurs v. Orlando.

Then they played Dallas with no Dirk.

At this point I'm just looking for signs. I'd be far more worried if the Spurs were playing like this in March.

The Spurs have two basic avenues to a title. Shoot lights out for the entire playoffs, or develop a consistent defense. Right now they play well for periods (last half of the 1st quarter was an example of good defense) but they're rarely able to maintain it.

As constructed this team isn't going to be a great defensive team, but hopefully they can simply play better defense.

[ElNono]

They lost to, arguably, the best team in the East tonight by 2 points-no moral victories but at least they were competitive unlike last night when they should've beaten a mid tier opponent. Now that loss, to me, is more disappointing than losing to the Celtics.

Now that Spurs lost to Celts/Knicks back 2 back, I'm sure we'll start hearing the "overrated" and "not as good as their record" talk. But as with the other uppper echelon teams in the east/west, Spurs will go through their slump and will fall back in the pack & will fight for their lives as the season continues. . Spurs started strong but I think how they finish may give us a clue whether they'll be able to fight with the other big boys.

We didn't play defense. Bottom line. Our offense will carry us so far. When the real season comes around, pace slows down and you're going to need to make stops. Especially against good executing teams like the Celtics.

[polandprzem]

They lost to, arguably, the best team in the East tonight by 2 points-no moral victories but at least they were competitive unlike last night when they should've beaten a mid tier opponent. Now that loss, to me, is more disappointing than losing to the Celtics.

Now that Spurs lost to Celts/Knicks back 2 back, I'm sure we'll start hearing the "overrated" and "not as good as their record" talk. But as with the other uppper echelon teams in the east/west, Spurs will go through their slump and will fall back in the pack & will fight for their lives as the season continues. . Spurs started strong but I think how they finish may give us a clue whether they'll be able to fight with the other big boys.

That's the thing.

Spurs might not win 60 games but the level of play in late March and April will tell us what's the team worth.

Still waiting for Splitt and Anders to go out and play rotation minutes.

[DPG21920]

What about against the Lakers?

Very good defense against the struggling Lakers. That is one game. They have had far more terrible defensive games than good ones.

[polandprzem]

Sweet. Need the points for FL.

I got Rondo !

[ElNono]

What about against the Lakers?

Fluke? Kobe going into chucker mode and shitting on his own team?

[Budkin]

i don't mind. We deserved to lose both games. This team needs to wake the fuck up and start playing competitive d. Pop needs to wake the fuck up and fix his idiotic rotations. We richly deserve these and any future losses till we improve the d. The record is fool's gold. Executing in the last 2 minutes and getting lucky with a win at the end would have extended our bad habits.

+100

[jag]

The Spurs haven't played many games where they've been sharp for 48 minutes. They're due some losses. I wonder what we'll see outa Pop if the Pacers shit on the Spurs by like 20 points. I almost want to find out

[EricB]

Very good defense against the struggling Lakers. That is one game. They have had far more terrible defensive games than good ones.


So the games against OKC and others the past couple weeks "Don't count"


Awesome.

[DPG21920]

At this point I'm just looking for signs. I'd be far more worried if the Spurs were playing like this in March.

The Spurs have two basic avenues to a title. Shoot lights out for the entire playoffs, or develop a consistent defense. Right now they play well for periods (last half of the 1st quarter was an example of good defense) but they're rarely able to maintain it.

As constructed this team isn't going to be a great defensive team, but hopefully they can simply play better defense.

I agree, they have shown flashes. They obviously have a ton of work just to be a pretty above average defensive team.

I was just disagreeing that they had played great defense in the previous 4 games. They played good, but there were some other factors involved.

[EricB]

Fluke? Kobe going into chucker mode and shitting on his own team?


Ah now its a fluke.

Of course.

[polandprzem]

So the games against OKC and others the past couple weeks "Don't count"


Awesome.

It only counts when you can build from it and make it stable and consistent

[DPG21920]

So the games against OKC and others the past couple weeks "Don't count"


Awesome.

Of course they count. I just don't think they played "great" defense in those games. It was good, not great.

[Warlord23]

They lost to, arguably, the best team in the East tonight by 2 points-no moral victories but at least they were competitive unlike last night when they should've beaten a mid tier opponent. Now that loss, to me, is more disappointing than losing to the Celtics.

Now that Spurs lost to Celts/Knicks back 2 back, I'm sure we'll start hearing the "overrated" and "not as good as their record" talk. But as with the other uppper echelon teams in the east/west, Spurs will go through their slump and will fall back in the pack & will fight for their lives as the season continues. . Spurs started strong but I think how they finish may give us a clue whether they'll be able to fight with the other big boys.

That's BS spin. They maybe the best team when fully healthy, but today the Boston frontcourt rotation was garbage. They are missing both their starting C and starting PF. Both O'Neals are foul-prone and have nothing to offer on offense. They were 3-3 in their last 6 before this one.

They had only two plays in their playbook (pick and roll and Allen coming off screens), and we let them shoot 61 fucking per cent.

[EricB]

I agree, they have shown flashes. They obviously have a ton of work just to be a pretty above average defensive team.

I was just disagreeing that they had played great defense in the previous 4 games. They played good, but there were some other factors involved.


Factors are always involved.

If you wanted to the rest of the year they could play great defense but you could find excuses for it.

[ElNono]

Ah now its a fluke.

Of course.

I asked a question. I see you agree.

[MannyIsGod]

I understand that a lot of smart Spurs fans are hedging the enthusiasm of the hot start because they don't want the rug pulled out from under them. Hopefully this team isn't a fluke. We'll see.

[Mugen]

Defending Kobe while he goes 1 on 5 is a little bit easier than playing teams that move without the ball and actually force the spurs to rotate and communicate.

[EricB]

Of course they count. I just don't think they played "great" defense in those games. It was good, not great.


Agree to disagree I guess.

Holding OKC to 74 I thought was great but it was just good.

[EricB]

I asked a question. I see you agree.


Whatever floats your boat.

[DPG21920]

Factors are always involved.

If you wanted to the rest of the year they could play great defense but you could find excuses for it.

No.

[GrandeDavid]

Hey timvp. is there a letter low enough for Hill's grade tonight? Double F? F square?

So much for Hill being our lockdown defender. Very disappointing.

[ShoogarBear]

They lost to, arguably, the best team in the East tonight by 2 points-no moral victories but at least they were competitive unlike last night when they should've beaten a mid tier opponent. Now that loss, to me, is more disappointing than losing to the Celtics.

Now that Spurs lost to Celts/Knicks back 2 back, I'm sure we'll start hearing the "overrated" and "not as good as their record" talk. But as with the other uppper echelon teams in the east/west, Spurs will go through their slump and will fall back in the pack & will fight for their lives as the season continues. . Spurs started strong but I think how they finish may give us a clue whether they'll be able to fight with the other big boys.

This wasn't really the best team in the East. It was the best team in the East missing their most important player. Yes, Davis played out of his mind to make up for it. But realistically, the Celtics were in control during crunch time and it was only by a couple of flukes that the Spurs made it close.

The Spurs are still much more of a work in progress and still have more potential for improvement than any of the top teams. But realistically what we learned the last two nights is that they aren't as good as their record. Not yet.

[Warlord23]

Agree to disagree I guess.

Holding OKC to 74 I thought was great but it was just good.

I think the type of team also matters. Like I said in the game blog, beating the Thunder/Blazers/Hornets etc by denying the paint is one thing. But we have no idea how to stop good jump shooting teams like the Magic, Knicks and Celtics.

[DPG21920]

Agree to disagree I guess.

Holding OKC to 74 I thought was great but it was just good.

I was really referring to the 4 game stretch where everyone was salivating over the Spurs defense.

[Creation88]

stupid thread. Spurs were lucky to be even that close in the final minutes. once in a blue moon chain of fluke plays at the end to keep us in it. it was over after Manu failed to cover Allen on that 3.

[mingus]

Fluke? Kobe going into chucker mode and shitting on his own team?

+1.

the defense is better than what has been displayed the last couple of nights, but the Laker's game, i always thought, was more LA playing low IQ ball than how great the Spurs D was. Kobe made horrible decisions that game and they didn't use their size advantage nearly as well as they could've, even thought whenever Bynum and Gasol were getting the ball they were scoring. and if you can't see that, you need to take off your homer glasses for a second.

[ElNono]

Whatever floats your boat.

Looks like that's how you see the games. When we were getting lit up by the Wolves but winning, it was 'look at the record'. Now it's look at the 3 games we played defense.

[DPG21920]

I understand that a lot of smart Spurs fans are hedging the enthusiasm of the hot start because they don't want the rug pulled out from under them. Hopefully this team isn't a fluke. We'll see.

I don't think the team is a fluke. Their offense and spurts of defense are really good. Good enough to do some damage.

But in order to really, truly contend, the defense must improve.

[EricB]

Looks like that's how you see the games. When we were getting lit up by the Wolves but winning, it was 'look at the record'. Now it's look at the 3 games we played defense.


Just playing both sides of the fence like you guys have been all year.

[ShoogarBear]

...

oooooh. Clever.

[polandprzem]

This wasn't really the best team in the East. It was the best team in the East missing their most important player. Yes, Davis played out of his mind to make up for it. But realistically, the Celtics were in control during crunch time and it was only by a couple of flukes that the Spurs made it close.

The Spurs are still much more of a work in progress and still have more potential for improvement than any of the top teams. But realistically what we learned the last two nights is that they aren't as good as their record. Not yet.

After losing both now - do they suit up for the record?

[ElNono]

I understand that a lot of smart Spurs fans are hedging the enthusiasm of the hot start because they don't want the rug pulled out from under them. Hopefully this team isn't a fluke. We'll see.

I think the offense in greatly improved. The reality is that your average NBA team will shot 35%-50%... Our improved offense will carry us through most of those games, and keep it close against other teams like the last two nights. But when push come to shove, you need stops. And we really can't get them against good executing teams.

[jag]

Lakaluva dropping in to say hey

[Muser]

If Hill plays to what he can play the Spurs win tonight, shame he had the worst game i've ever seen him play.

[EricB]

oooooh. Clever.


I've yet to get an answer from the people saying "They've got a good record but its december"

But when the Spurs last year were playing bad and someone like me would say not really that worried its just december, they would flip out and say thats a horsecrap excuse blind homer blah blah blah.

[ChumpDumper]

lol luva can't stay away.

[ElNono]

Just playing both sides of the fence like you guys have been all year.

You guys? :lol

[ElNono]

lol luva the welcher makes an appearance...

[Warlord23]

You guys? :lol

You guys = Spur fans who don't have their heads up Pop's ass and consume less than 4000 calories a day

[polandprzem]

I've yet to get an answer from the people saying "They've got a good record but its december"

But when the Spurs last year were playing bad and someone like me would say not really that worried its just december, they would flip out and say thats a horsecrap excuse blind homer blah blah blah.

And you can say you are not a homer :lol




--
poland is going to set himself up for a sleep now


Be good all of you spurs fans :flag:

[EricB]

You guys = Spur fans who don't have their heads up Pop's ass and consume less than 4000 calories a day


Ooo a fat joke, original.

[polandprzem]

What is a fat joke?

[mexicanjunior]

But when the Spurs last year were playing bad and someone like me would say not really that worried its just december, they would flip out and say thats a horsecrap excuse blind homer blah blah blah.

We were right to be worried last year...they finished with their worst record in the Duncan era, sneaked into the playoffs as a 7th seed and were swept out of the post season by a superior team...

I'm glad the Spurs have gotten off to such a great start record wise but it doesn't change the fact that their defense has not been championship caliber for the majority of the year and they are squeaking by with great offense.

[Warlord23]

Ooo a fat joke, original.

What will be really original is you offering a basketball take other than wanting to keep your lips snugged up to Pop's backside.

[ShoogarBear]

I've yet to get an answer from the people saying "They've got a good record but its december"

But when the Spurs last year were playing bad and someone like me would say not really that worried its just december, they would flip out and say thats a horsecrap excuse blind homer blah blah blah.

tl;dr

See ninja edit.

[EricB]

What will be really original is you offering a basketball take other than wanting to keep your lips snugged up to Pop's backside.


Another original take.

Show me here where I've had my lips snugged up to Pop's backside in any of these threads tonight?

[jag]

What is a fat joke?

A joke that eats too much and doesn't exercise.

[EricB]

tl;dr

See ninja edit.



I see now.

[mingus]

Spurs have the potential to be a top 5-6 defensive team. they've shown that they can be a bottom 5-6 as well. i'm hoping this team can find consistency on that end by the playoffs. the good thing is we know they can be good. it's not like last years team, where there was never really any indication early on that the team would be able to hold its own defensively. that was supported by the play, but also the players, who weren't good enough.

[ShoogarBear]

After losing both now - do they suit up for the record?

They are starting to lose some weight. Still tight in the seat, though.

[ElNono]

Spurs have the potential to be a top 5-6 defensive team.

What makes you think that? Honest question.

[ElNono]

I think this personnel can peak to be a middle of the pack defensively, personally. The elite offense would need to do the rest.

[EricB]

What makes you think that? Honest question.


Good defensive bigs in McDyess and Duncan

Good defense on teh wings in Anderson, Hill, Parker, Ginobili when they are working together.

[mexicanjunior]

I think this personnel can peak to be a middle of the pack defensively, personally. The elite offense would need to do the rest.

Sounds like 2004-2005 Suns...

[Ditty]

I told the good lord I would run down the street naked if the spurs would pull off a miracle :(

[EricB]

They've shown at times they are better than midpack. They have 47 games to become more consistent...

[Warlord23]

Another original take.

Show me here where I've had my lips snugged up to Pop's backside in any of these threads tonight?

Tonight your shtick seems to be pointing to the OKC/LA games to convince yourself that we're still a good defensive squad. That's stupid enough already, without including any of your pro-Pop bias.

BTW, Pop himself is pissed at the D as it stands. It's just that hot shooting and some clutch execution had covered it up so far.

[mingus]

What makes you think that? Honest question.

Boston
Heat
Magic
LA
Chicago

those are the only teams i see being better than the Spurs defensively by the end of the year. you may be able to throw in a few other teams, but it's disputable.

[ElNono]

Good defensive bigs in McDyess and Duncan

I have no problem with this, except that they can't play for 48 mins, and the dropoff to Bonner/Blair is huge on the defensive end.


Good defense on teh wings in Anderson, Hill, Parker, Ginobili when they are working together.

We'll see about Anderson. The rest are good, not great.
Hill being probably the best but mostly at home. None of them can't be tasked to cool a hot guy though, like Allen or Pierce today. They're not inherently stoppers. In the case of Manu and Tony you also run the risk of tiring them and making the offense suffer as a by-product.

[EricB]

Tonight your shtick seems to be pointing to the OKC/LA games to convince yourself that we're still a good defensive squad. That's stupid enough already, without including any of your pro-Pop bias.

BTW, Pop himself is pissed at the D as it stands. It's just that hot shooting and some clutch execution had covered it up so far.


I would hope he is.

Again, I was never talking to you and I don't understand why your getting all pissed at me for no reason.

[mexicanjunior]

They've shown at times they are better than midpack. They have 47 games to become more consistent...

They have also shown at times they are worse than midpack (including the last 2 games). They could use those 47 games to follow the lead of these last 2 and regress just as easily...The games against OKC and LA were great but those types of defensive efforts have been the exception and not the norm...

[ElNono]

Boston
Heat
Magic
LA
Chicago

those are the only teams i see being better than the Spurs defensively by the end of the year. you may be able to throw in a few other teams, but it's disputable.

Utah will probably be there too. Sloan teams always are.

Thanks for the insight.

[DPG21920]

Can we all at least agree that peskypesky is ghey? I will agree to the Spurs playing great defense (only during the 4 game stretch though) if you accept these terms.

What say you?

[Warlord23]

Boston
Heat
Magic
LA
Chicago

those are the only teams i see being better than the Spurs defensively by the end of the year. you may be able to throw in a few other teams, but it's disputable.

Unfortunately, it's not the rank of our defense that will matter in the end. It's how good/bad it is compared to other contenders.

Right now our D is way behind the Heat, Mavericks, Lakers, Bulls and Celtics. Even the Jazz, Magic and Hornets have better defenses.

Our offense is totally dependent on the 3 ball. In a 7 game series, I don't think this formula will work.

[jag]

They have also shown at times they are worse than midpack (including the last 2 games). They could use those 47 games to follow the lead of these last 2 and regress just as easily...The games against OKC and LA were great but those types of defensive efforts have been the exception and not the norm...

Has there been a season in the Tim Duncan era where the Spurs have gotten progressively worse on the defensive end after the all-star break?

[Capt Bringdown]

What's even more ironic is that some Spurs fans said it was right to quit last game because the Knicks were shooting too well. Tonight, the Celtics were shooting even better and the Spurs erased the lead in less than one-third of the time.

And this was against a championship contender ... not a D'Antoni squad.

This may be Pop's all-time Simulator Crew moment. Somewhere PJ is laughing, and justifiably so.
What a jackass move.

[EricB]

They have also shown at times they are worse than midpack (including the last 2 games). They could use those 47 games to follow the lead of these last 2 and regress just as easily...The games against OKC and LA were great but those types of defensive efforts have been the exception and not the norm...


?? Spurs teams never regress defensively as the season progresses no matter the personnel.

[ElNono]

Has there been a season in the Tim Duncan era where the Spurs have gotten progressively worse on the defensive end after the all-star break?

Last season was terrible after the Mavs series. You can pin it on matchups or whatever. We couldn't stop people. I don't think we've really addressed that.

[jag]

Can we all at least agree that peskypesky is ghey? I will agree to the Spurs playing great defense (only during the 4 game stretch though) if you accept these terms.

What say you?

You might have to throw in the comeback against the Hornets in NO, tbh

[mingus]

I have no problem with this, except that they can't play for 48 mins, and the dropoff to Bonner/Blair is huge on the defensive end.



We'll see about Anderson. The rest are good, not great.
Hill being probably the best but mostly at home. None of them can't be tasked to cool a hot guy though, like Allen or Pierce today. They're not inherently stoppers. In the case of Manu and Tony you also run the risk of tiring them and making the offense suffer as a by-product.

we'll see. i agree and disagree. Hill and RJ have demonstrated 50% of the time that they improved greatly over last year defensively. Neal has impressed at times. Parker has ben great most of the year. there's enough of a sample size to see that the Spurs have the potential to be very good defensively--remember the second half in NO? or OKC the other day. great defense, then you have nights like in NY or tonight against Boston, where they look like shit defensively.

it's been on of the major issues for the Spurs this year is what kind of D will they bring. it's a ? going into every game.

[HarlemHeat37]

Spurs don't have the potential to be a top 5 defensive team, that's just silly..this was the main problem coming into the season, nothing has changed..

The only way they have any chance is if they play D like they did against LA on a consistent basis, which is with a lot of energy + swarming, but they don't have the focus to do that on a consistent basis, and it's easier vs. teams like LA, since their shooters aren't scary..

Duncan: good defender, but liability vs. fast teams..
McDyess: above average defender..
Bonner: below average defender..
Blair: average post defender, horrible everywhere else..
Splitter: above average defender, but doesn't get PT, partly due to his poor offense..

Manu: average defender, good at picking up steals..
Parker: average defender, good at picking up steals..
Hill: slightly above average defender..
RJ: average defender..
Neal: average defender..
Anderson: showed flashes of being an above average defender..

The defensive talent isn't there to be a legit top 5 defensive team..then you add the "fit", which makes it even worse..

Duncan is the only rim protector, he's no longer good enough to make up for the perimeter D and the secondary big's deficiencies..he can be exploited by certain quick teams, leaving no other rim protector..

None of the Spurs defenders can run through screens properly..

Blair's defensive IQ is extremely low, and he's a starter..

Manu, TP and Hill gamble a lot, they're often out of position..

The Spurs are a pretty good defensive team when it comes to defending slow teams or teams that don't shoot a lot of 3s, and teams that don't run a lot of screens and move the ball too much..

The D has to be better either way, but the Spurs don't match up very well vs. Orlando, Miami and Boston for these reasons IMO..defensively, if they improve like they should(even with their limited ceiling on D), they should still be able to compete with LA/Dallas, hopefully..

[mexicanjunior]

Has there been a season in the Tim Duncan era where the Spurs have gotten progressively worse on the defensive end after the all-star break?

I don't recall a season in the Duncan era where the Spurs started so poorly defensively and had improve this dramatically. Last year I don't recall the Spurs defense getting better or worse from beginning to end but I do recall Duncan's performance degrading, which definitely hurt the interior defense of the team.

[DPG21920]

You might have to throw in the comeback against the Hornets in NO, tbh

You drive a hard bargain, but a fair one. You have yourself a got damn deal.

[jag]

Last season was terrible after the Mavs series. You can pin it on matchups or whatever. We couldn't stop people. I don't think we've really addressed that.

I was referring more to the regular season. The Spurs were worn down by the time the Mavs series was over. It seemed like they put everything they had into beating the Mavs. Duncan looked pretty bad...they brutalized him on the PnR

[Dex]

I think this personnel can peak to be a middle of the pack defensively, personally. The elite offense would need to do the rest.

Hate to say it, but this is pretty much how I feel.

The Spurs have been slipping defensively for years now, and this squad hasn't shown any signs that they are going to be able to break that trend.

While I'd love to believe that it's still a work in progress and they are just figuring things out now, I am sincerely starting to doubt they will figure things out well enough to become a solid defensive squad. They don't have the personnel or the defensive talent anymore, and that is not just going to magically resolve itself. I don't care how fast these players try to rotate, they still can't move faster than a pass, and the teams that realize that are picking the Spurs apart with backcuts and wide open threes.

If teams are missing shots, the Spurs look decent defensively. But if the other team gets in any sort of rhythm, this defense just doesn't seem to have the punch to knock it out of them. If anything, it just makes the opposing team more confident every time they punch right through the seams.

[DPG21920]

I think the Spurs can definitely be better than middle of the pack. They might not be ultra consistent on defense, but I only care about their ability to play one good half of defense.

With their offense, if they can be a 2nd half defensive team, I am ok with that and I think they can be a top 8 defensive team if looked at in that light.

[HarlemHeat37]

Their peak is a top 7-8 defensive team, which would be fine, if everybody is healthy, since there are enough offensive weapons for this team..teams don't need an elite D to win the title, they need an elite balance..

Hopefully they can reach that peak..

[200 miles]

Spurs don't have the potential to be a top 5 defensive team, that's just silly..this was the main problem coming into the season, nothing has changed..

The only way they have any chance is if they play D like they did against LA on a consistent basis, which is with a lot of energy + swarming, but they don't have the focus to do that on a consistent basis, and it's easier vs. teams like LA, since their shooters aren't scary..

Duncan: good defender, but liability vs. fast teams..
McDyess: above average defender..
Bonner: below average defender..
Blair: average post defender, horrible everywhere else..
Splitter: above average defender, but doesn't get PT, partly due to his poor offense..
Manu: average defender, good at picking up steals..
Parker: average defender, good at picking up steals..
Hill: slightly above average defender..
RJ: average defender..
Neal: average defender..
Anderson: showed flashes of being an above average defender..

The defensive talent isn't there to be a legit top 5 defensive team..then you add the "fit", which makes it even worse..

Duncan is the only rim protector, he's no longer good enough to make up for the perimeter D and the secondary big's deficiencies..he can be exploited by certain quick teams, leaving no other rim protector..

None of the Spurs defenders can run through screens properly..

Blair's defensive IQ is extremely low, and he's a starter..

Manu, TP and Hill gamble a lot, they're often out of position..

The Spurs are a pretty good defensive team when it comes to defending slow teams or teams that don't shoot a lot of 3s, and teams that don't run a lot of screens and move the ball too much..

The D has to be better either way, but the Spurs don't match up very well vs. Orlando, Miami and Boston for these reasons IMO..defensively, if they improve like they should(even with their limited ceiling on D), they should still be able to compete with LA/Dallas, hopefully..

Imagine what the team's post defense would look like if Bonner and Splitter's roles were reversed in Pop's eyes.

[jag]

I don't recall a season in the Duncan era where the Spurs started so poorly defensively and had improve this dramatically. Last year I don't recall the Spurs defense getting better or worse from beginning to end but I do recall Duncan's performance degrading, which definitely hurt the interior defense of the team.

The personnel probably won't change, so you're going to see similar lineups come March. Where you can expect to see a change is in the defensive chemistry. To say they look out of sync is an understatement. There's no reason to assume the chemistry will regress over the course of the season.

[mingus]

Spurs don't have the potential to be a top 5 defensive team, that's just silly..this was the main problem coming into the season, nothing has changed..

The only way they have any chance is if they play D like they did against LA on a consistent basis, which is with a lot of energy + swarming, but they don't have the focus to do that on a consistent basis, and it's easier vs. teams like LA, since their shooters aren't scary..

Duncan: good defender, but liability vs. fast teams..
McDyess: above average defender..
Bonner: below average defender..
Blair: average post defender, horrible everywhere else..
Splitter: above average defender, but doesn't get PT, partly due to his poor offense..

Manu: average defender, good at picking up steals..
Parker: average defender, good at picking up steals..
Hill: slightly above average defender..
RJ: average defender..
Neal: average defender..
Anderson: showed flashes of being an above average defender..

The defensive talent isn't there to be a legit top 5 defensive team..then you add the "fit", which makes it even worse..

Duncan is the only rim protector, he's no longer good enough to make up for the perimeter D and the secondary big's deficiencies..he can be exploited by certain quick teams, leaving no other rim protector..

None of the Spurs defenders can run through screens properly..

Blair's defensive IQ is extremely low, and he's a starter..

Manu, TP and Hill gamble a lot, they're often out of position..

The Spurs are a pretty good defensive team when it comes to defending slow teams or teams that don't shoot a lot of 3s, and teams that don't run a lot of screens and move the ball too much..

The D has to be better either way, but the Spurs don't match up very well vs. Orlando, Miami and Boston for these reasons IMO..defensively, if they improve like they should(even with their limited ceiling on D), they should still be able to compete with LA/Dallas, hopefully..

I think you're underrating Parker. Parker has been great defensively for the majority of the season. RJ has shown that he can be very, very good. He played great D on Kevin Durant the other day. Hill, like RJ, has shown that he can very good. Neal has been average but at times he has looked good.

by the end of the year i think the Spurs get more consistent on that end. it pisses me off that Splitter isn't getting more PT, which doesn't help that cause.

[mexicanjunior]

?? Spurs teams never regress defensively as the season progresses no matter the personnel.

Spurs teams also never start the season this poorly defensively...things change with personnel adjustments and age. This is not a 1st Team All Defense Tim Duncan being helped on the perimeter by a stopper like Bruce Bowen. Can't just assume things anymore just because the names on the jerseys...

[ohmwrecker]

They can't wait until the 4th (or the last 3 min.) to crank up the D. Teams are gunning for them hard now. No more coasting. They have to take it up a level or they're toast.

[EricB]

Spurs teams also never start the season this poorly defensively...things change with personnel adjustments and age. This is not a 1st Team All Defense Tim Duncan being helped on the perimeter by a stopper like Bruce Bowen. Can't just assume things anymore just because the names on the jerseys...


They have. Their defense is always a work in progress during the season.

It always starts out mediocre from beginning through january, makes progress in february, march april it gets better.

[jag]

You drive a hard bargain, but a fair one. You have yourself a got damn deal.

Peskypesky is a raging lover of men

[ElNono]

we'll see. i agree and disagree. Hill and RJ have demonstrated 50% of the time that they improved greatly over last year defensively. Neal has impressed at times. Parker has ben great most of the year. there's enough of a sample size to see that the Spurs have the potential to be very good defensively--remember the second half in NO? or OKC the other day. great defense, then you have nights like in NY or tonight against Boston, where they look like shit defensively.

it's been on of the major issues for the Spurs this year is what kind of D will they bring. it's a ? going into every game.

It's tricky. The problem with the playoffs is that the pace slows down. A lot of Parker D has been racking up steals, and that's going to be less there with a slower pace. Neal, Hill and RJ are very inconsistent. Obviously, our offense masks a lot of that. When you score a lot, you put pressure on the other team to keep up and that has an effect on the other team offense. But against good teams that don't panic, it's just not going to cut it.
You also glossed over a guy like Bonner which gets significant minutes out there and is a liability.

We'll see sounds about right. I would like to be greatly surprised with at least having some consistency in the defensive production.

[ElNono]

I was referring more to the regular season. The Spurs were worn down by the time the Mavs series was over. It seemed like they put everything they had into beating the Mavs. Duncan looked pretty bad...they brutalized him on the PnR

It wasn't just that. Hill was abused by Nash, and we got murdered from the perimeter. And TD needs help. Dice can't play 48 mins either.

[Dex]

It's tricky. The problem with the playoffs is that the pace slows down. A lot of Parker D has been racking up steals, and that's going to be less there with a slower pace. Neal, Hill and RJ are very inconsistent. Obviously, our offense masks a lot of that. When you score a lot, you put pressure on the other team to keep up and that has an effect on the other team offense. But against good teams that don't panic, it's just not going to cut it.
You also glossed over a guy like Bonner which gets significant minutes out there and is a liability.

We'll see sounds about right. I would like to be greatly surprised with at least having some consistency in the defensive production.

Tonight was a prime example of what the playoffs will look like. Play a good team who takes care of the ball, doesn't take bad shots, and gets back in transition, and suddenly all those steals, outlet passes, and easy buckets aren't there for the picking.

Then, all you are left with is half court execution, and defense.

[mexicanjunior]

Spurs teams also never start the season this poorly defensively...things change with personnel adjustments and age. This is not a 1st Team All Defense Tim Duncan being helped on the perimeter by a stopper like Bruce Bowen. Can't just assume things anymore just because the names on the jerseys...

They have. Their defense is always a work in progress during the season.

It always starts out mediocre from beginning through january, makes progress in february, march april it gets better.

Their average "points allowed per game" and "opponent FG% allowed per game" has been this bad before in the Duncan era? If they have looked this poorly defensively after 35 games, I stand corrected.

[jag]

Spurs teams also never start the season this poorly defensively...things change with personnel adjustments and age. This is not a 1st Team All Defense Tim Duncan being helped on the perimeter by a stopper like Bruce Bowen. Can't just assume things anymore just because the names on the jerseys...

Duncan isn't the same but he's still a force in the middle. And Popovich is one constant throughout the TD era that you are forgetting.

[mexicanjunior]

The personnel probably won't change, so you're going to see similar lineups come March. Where you can expect to see a change is in the defensive chemistry. To say they look out of sync is an understatement. There's no reason to assume the chemistry will regress over the course of the season.

The ones that seem most lost (Blair, Hill, Bonner, Jefferson) have been here long enough to know where they should be on rotations. Unless Pop installed an all new defensive philosophy over the off-season, I don't see how players that have been here 1+ years are going to have the light switch come on.

[jag]

It wasn't just that. Hill was abused by Nash, and we got murdered from the perimeter. And TD needs help. Dice can't play 48 mins either.

Hill always gets abused by Nash. TP has always performed much better when it comes to nash because he constantly attacks Nash while on offense. Nash is just too smart and crafty for Hill.

I'm not really sure what it was against phoenix. They were just the better team and the Spurs weren't ready.

[jag]

The ones that seem most lost (Blair, Hill, Bonner, Jefferson) have been here long enough to know where they should be on rotations. Unless Pop installed an all new defensive philosophy over the off-season, I don't see how players that have been here 1+ years are going to have the light switch come on.

That's why it's probably safe to assume they will improve over time.

[Avitus1]

This thread brought to you by lakaluva's month long exile from the NBA forum.

Brilliant!

[Warlord23]

The difference between this Spurs team and earlier ones is:
1. Lack of a shutdown defender who can hound a good/great offensive player
2. A consistent shot-blocker/shot-changer (TD is OK but not an intimidator any more)

Without those two, you need to play a "swarming" type D - chase, collapse and rotate really fast and be able to recover the board at the end. A good example is the Miami Heat - they don't have elite shot blocking bigs, are bottom 5 in the NBA in steals and have a 0.0 turnover differential, but are ferocious in the halfcourt D.

Unfortunately, we haven't shown enough foot speed to rotate and cover shooters, and still be able to gather the board after a miss. But that is to be expected when the #2 big man in the rotation (by minutes) is Matt Bonner, and none of our swingmen are exceptionally quick to rotate and come back to gather boards.

[EricB]

It wasn't just that. Hill was abused by Nash, and we got murdered from the perimeter. And TD needs help. Dice can't play 48 mins either.

They got murdered by guys having career years in Fry and Dragic and Richardson.

[Capt Bringdown]

Spurs don't have the potential to be a top 5 defensive team, that's just silly..this was the main problem coming into the season, nothing has changed..


Yup, you cain't go nothing on poor soil. Duncan is not the player he used to be, Bonner, Blair & McMummy have their issues/deficiencies. Where did folks think the defense is supposed to come from? I don't think you can win a title on perimeter defense alone, and as you said, it's not there every night anyway.

Also on offense, the Celtics were missing their 2 best interior D pieces, Garnett & Perkins but did we notice?

[ElNono]

Hill always gets abused by Nash. TP has always performed much better when it comes to nash because he constantly attacks Nash on offense. Nash is just too smart and crafty for Hill.

I'm not really sure what it was against phoenix. They were just the better team and the Spurs weren't ready.

If we had this season's offense, we could have won at least a game or two, maybe the series. The reality though, is that the Lakers made quick work of them right afterwards.

[mexicanjunior]

Duncan isn't the same but he's still a force in the middle. And Popovich is one constant throughout the TD era that you are forgetting.

I love what Duncan has been for us through his career but I don't think we can contend with him being the only "force" in the middle. With no perimeter stopper and no reliable size to help Duncan guard the paint, it's hard to see a dramatic enough improvement from this team to believe they can raise their defensive level to championship caliber. Pop's coaching can only disguise their shortcomings so much...

[EricB]

If we had this season's offense, we could have won at least a game or two, maybe the series. The reality though, is that the Lakers made quick work of them right afterwards.


Put a healthy Parker in that series, one who would guard Nash, and I think the series is a little different.

Also bring Channing Frye back to earth...

[ElNono]

I love what Duncan has been for us through his career but I don't think we can contend with him being the only "force" in the middle. With no perimeter stopper and no reliable size to help Duncan guard the paint, it's hard to see a dramatic enough improvement from this team to believe they can raise their defensive level to championship caliber. Pop's coaching can only disguise their shortcomings so much...

I agree, and I point out again that even if Duncan and Dice would be playing D incredibly well, at some point you have to sit them down, and the guys behind them are very poor defenders. The dropoff is really, really big.

[jag]

Unless the Spurs have to deal with injuries, there's just no reason to think this defense won't be much improved once March rolls around.

Like HarlemHeat said earlier, the Spurs don't have to be an elite defensive team to contend for the title. They just need to be well balanced. They have a great offense, so if they can manage to end up in the top 7-10 teams in defense they'll be a tough team to beat.

[mexicanjunior]

That's why it's probably safe to assume they will improve over time.

I don't see the safeness in your assumption but I guess we will agree to disagree. Blair and Jefferson haven't been here long enough for me to just rely on them getting better on their own...I guess we can cross our fingers. Bonner's history suggests he will always be an inferior defender in the paint and Hill's defense seems to depend entirely on the matchup. He is ok if guarding a 1 on 1 isolation player but struggles against shooters working off of screens.

[EricB]

lair and Jefferson haven't been here long enough for me to just rely on them getting better on their own.

Jefferson's defense is MILES ahead of where it was last year...

[ElNono]

Put a healthy Parker in that series, one who would guard Nash, and I think the series is a little different.

Also bring Channing Frye back to earth...

We let him get hot. We let Richardson get hot. We overplayed Amare and we picked our poison.
The problem is that we no longer have anybody to put out a fire. Happened tonight with Allen.

You can't call it a fluke when it happens 4 games in a row. The Lakers closed out on them and the fire cooled down pretty quickly.

[EricB]

We let him get hot. We let Richardson get hot. We overplayed Amare and we picked our poison.
The problem is that we no longer have anybody to put out a fire. Happened tonight with Allen.

You can't call it a fluke when it happens 4 games in a row. The Lakers closed out on them and the fire cooled down pretty quickly.


Im sorry you can't LET someone get hot.

They either are or arent'.

The Lakers shut them down because they were scared as shit against the Lakers.

[mexicanjunior]

Jefferson's defense is MILES ahead of where it was last year...

But yet we have gotten worse as a team defensively...statistically at least. If Jefferson has raised his defense, the remainder of the starting 5 must have really regressed.

[ElNono]

Im sorry you can't LET someone get hot.
They either are or arent'.

What? :lol
When you give up open looks and they knock them down, you give them confidence. Players get hot all the time. Bowen used to be a master of putting out those fires. We just don't have anybody that can do that in this roster.


The Lakers shut them down because they were scared as shit against the Lakers.

No, the Lakers can simply cover Amare one on one. They don't need to gamble.

[ElNono]

Let me give you a fresher example: We dared Rondo to shoot tonight, and he got hot. We simply picked our poison and let him get hot.

[Capt Bringdown]

But yet we have gotten worse as a team defensively...statistically at least. If Jefferson has raised his defense, the remainder of the starting 5 must have really regressed.

Maybe a 6-5 starting center isn't a viable way to build an elite defense? Backed up by a perimeter big and an undersized Methusula?

Gimmickball will only get you so far.

[mexicanjunior]

Maybe a 6-5 starting center isn't a viable way to build an elite defense? Backed up by a perimeter big and an undersized Methusula?

Gimmickball will only get you so far.

Agreed...hence why I don't have the trust that things will improve based solely on history...

[HarlemHeat37]

I disagree about Jefferson's defense getting better, I don't see a difference from last year..offensively, he's obviously much better, but the D is the same IMO..

I agree about Blair..I made a thread when the season began, about Blair in the starting lineup..it's impossible to play good D on a consistent basis when Blair is in the lineup, his defensive IQ is too low..

Blair needs to watch as much tape of Glen Davis as possible..he needs to model his entire game after him..

[EricB]

Let me give you a fresher example: We dared Rondo to shoot tonight, and he got hot. We simply picked our poison and let him get hot.


I don't think I can equate Channing Frye and Rajon Rondo.

[ElNono]

I don't think I can equate Channing Frye and Rajon Rondo.

You sure can move the goalposts...

[weebo]

Pop's infatuation with Bonner during critical junctures of the game (especially when he is not hitting from the arc) will be the undoing of this team. I hate to put the blame squarely on Bonner but because, as someone mentioned earlier, we no longer have a legit perimeter stopper the pressure to defend lies on the interior defenders.
I just don't get it with Pop. We need size and a legit seven foot defender on the inside to go along with Timmy. Last year he refused to give Ian any minutes when we desperately needed interior defending and this year he is pulling the same shit with Splitter.

[EricB]

You sure can move the goalposts...


Not at all,

Channing Frye - a mediocre basketball player

Rajon Rondo - a budding star


If Rajon Rondo was the one bagging jumpers at every turn in the second round I would be with you.

But it was Channing freaking Frye.

[EricB]

Pop's infatuation with Bonner during critical junctures of the game (especially when he is not hitting from the arc) will be the undoing of this team. I hate to put the blame squarely on Bonner but because, as someone mentioned earlier, we no longer have a legit perimeter stopper the pressure to defend lies on the interior defenders.
I just don't get it with Pop. We need size and a legit seven foot defender on the inside to go along with Timmy. Last year he refused to give Ian any minutes when we desperately needed interior defending and this year he is pulling the same shit with Splitter.


This the same guy thats losing minutes to Brian Cardinal in Dallas?


Bonner was hitting shots, the Celtics adjusted and stuck a guy on him constantly the whole second half.

[ElNono]

Not at all,

Channing Frye - a mediocre basketball player
Rajon Rondo - a budding star

If Rajon Rondo was the one bagging jumpers at every turn in the second round I would be with you.

But it was Channing freaking Frye.

We're discussing wether you can let players get hot or not, and you pull a Rondo-Fry comparison? :lol

Fry was hitting them because we gambled on the pick and roll between Nash and Amare. Our rotations were not existent and thus, he got open looks. By the time we decided to actually focus on him, he was already hot. Same thing happened with Richardson and their other shooters. We decided that if we were going to get beat, it was not going to be Amare. Well, the other guys delivered.

Teams do that all the time against us too. That's how you get a mediocre player like Bonner hitting 7/7. When teams actually close on him, he becomes useless. Exactly what happened with Fry against the Lakers.

[DMC]

Avery Johnson and Mike Brown have CotY awards...

Just sayin...

[jjktkk]

Where is this great d you speak of?

Damnitt, take off that stupid helmet when you watch games.

[Hoops Czar]

Four rings, bidchess!

Which means what in 2011? Or is that the pinnacle?

Pop sat his players because they couldn't stop squat against the Knicks. It was complete futility and I for one am glad Pop decided to pull the plug. It was a loss all the way.

Boston plays at a less frantic pace which makes it easier to guard them. Too bad the perimeter defenders took the night off.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Damnitt, take off that stupid helmet when you watch games.

well, where is it?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Okay, I just want timvp to reply in timvp speak why he was mentioning the Spurs athleticism is greater with Hill in the lineup.

What difference does athleticism make if Hill sucks more often than not on defense?

I was so happy after the Laker victory that I bought into the hype but, really, overall, Hill is not good at defense. We said this at the conclusion of every one of his seasons thus far. He's like our Roddy Beaubois. He had a handful of great rookie defensive games.....then he shows us flashes. That's it.

What frustrates the shit out of me (and probably all of you) is that he has shown games where he can make a MAJOR difference with his defense.....and we're sitting here dumbfounded when he plays the way he has the last two days.

I am finished with giving Hill a free pass. I want to see Pop and Coach Bud ripping his fucking asshole open every mistake he makes again. Pop giving him Free Reign on a timeout his rookie year obviously has not worked.

George Hill has the talent to be something great. But his inconsistency is a big detriment. And I think over half the ST'ers have honestly forgot how much of an abortion he was in the Phoenix Suns series of last playoffs.

Simply amazing. Go Spurs.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

edit: i just want timvp to respond to that first part.

the rest was just me ranting

[TD 21]

Message from above, my ass. It's called law of averages. They were due to lose a close game and due for a losing streak period.

If anything, you could look at the Spurs having a chance to win that game at the end as being a gift from the "basketball gods".

The fact that they didn't win tonight doesn't make last night's decision wrong.

[rmt]

Hill just does not get around screens well. Wouldn't Parker be better on Allen and Hill on Rondo - kinda like how Pop put Parker on Rip and Bowen on Billups in the last quarter of 05 finals game 7? Maybe the series wouldn't have gone 7 games if Pop had done that earlier seeing as Billups was the "head of the snake."

Pop's fascination with Hill as the best perimeter defender needs to be adjusted depending on the players being guarded. Instead of putting Hill on the best (hot) offensive player, put him on Rondo so Hill's long arms can deflect some of Rondo's assists. Let Parker chase Allen around the screens.

If Bonner was being guarded closely, he's useless on offense. Got tired of seeing Davis back him down in the post. Pop's love of Bonner is going to be the death of this team. Why didn't he play someone else if Bonner wasn't contributing offensively?

He needs to incorporate Splitter, but I'm resigned to Splitter sitting on the bench his rookie year a la Oberto. At least he's giving Neal some run. Maybe Anderson will get a chance. This team is not going to win anything if the defense doesn't improve.

[jjktkk]

well, where is it?

Making a joke to DeadlyDynasty's avatar's helmet. Now go away and go play on the NBA Forum.

[Yorae]

But it left me wondering why it would take a very high shooting percentage to beat us. And boston barely beat us on a back to back...

[KenziE]

not worried a bit its only january

[024]

a midseason lull for the spurs. rather see them lackluster now than in march. however, we always knew the spurs aren't as good as the lakers and celtics, no matter what the record says. these two teams are simply too stacked. enjoy the winning ride while it lasted but fatigue will set in and the euphoria of starting the season will wear off. back to the grind. i just hope the spurs can hang on to their 1 seed, which is still attainable.

[quentin_compson]

I agree with those who say that it doesn't look like this team has the personnel to be a top 5 defensive team night in and night out. There are issues on the perimeter as well as inside.
I guess a combination of Hill/RJ/Manu/Anderson on the perimeter and of TD/Dice/Splitter in the post could work well enough to get to the WCF, but in order to win a series against the Lakers/Mavs/Celtics/Heat, these guys would have to be at the top of their defensive game on a consistent basis. Right now, it's a little hard to believe that this actually will happen.

[Muser]

Okay, I just want timvp to reply in timvp speak why he was mentioning the Spurs athleticism is greater with Hill in the lineup.

What difference does athleticism make if Hill sucks more often than not on defense?

I was so happy after the Laker victory that I bought into the hype but, really, overall, Hill is not good at defense. We said this at the conclusion of every one of his seasons thus far. He's like our Roddy Beaubois. He had a handful of great rookie defensive games.....then he shows us flashes. That's it.

What frustrates the shit out of me (and probably all of you) is that he has shown games where he can make a MAJOR difference with his defense.....and we're sitting here dumbfounded when he plays the way he has the last two days.

I am finished with giving Hill a free pass. I want to see Pop and Coach Bud ripping his fucking asshole open every mistake he makes again. Pop giving him Free Reign on a timeout his rookie year obviously has not worked.

George Hill has the talent to be something great. But his inconsistency is a big detriment. And I think over half the ST'ers have honestly forgot how much of an abortion he was in the Phoenix Suns series of last playoffs.

Simply amazing. Go Spurs.

I agree, some games Hill looks like he can be great (Lakers for example), then others he's the worst player on the team.

[pad300]

I disagree about Jefferson's defense getting better, I don't see a difference from last year..offensively, he's obviously much better, but the D is the same IMO..

I agree about Blair..I made a thread when the season began, about Blair in the starting lineup..it's impossible to play good D on a consistent basis when Blair is in the lineup, his defensive IQ is too low..

Blair needs to watch as much tape of Glen Davis as possible..he needs to model his entire game after him..

Not Davis. Chuck Hayes. If you want an undersized center who can DEFEND, he's your man...

[HarlemHeat37]

Not Davis. Chuck Hayes. If you want an undersized center who can DEFEND, he's your man...

Chuck Hayes is a rare type of player, and he's an offensive liability..

Blair has shown enough offensive potential and he seems to value offense a lot more than defense, so I think Big Baby is a guy he should model his game after..Davis wasn't known as a defender coming into the NBA, but he has become a legit team defender, to compliment his offense..

[awktalk]

He needs to incorporate Splitter, but I'm resigned to Splitter sitting on the bench his rookie year a la Oberto. At least he's giving Neal some run. Maybe Anderson will get a chance. This team is not going to win anything if the defense doesn't improve.

Have you watched a single game this year when Splitter didn't play 4th quarter junk minutes? The dude gets owned on defense and doesn't have an offensive move outside of 6 feet, and his move inside 6 feet is a shoulder-hoisted spinner that most 3s can block. Dude is an abomination, which is why he gets no minutes.