Defense vs. Rondo

[timvp]

I know Rondo can't shoot but sagging soooo far off of him all game did more harm than good. Against regular defenses, Rondo has great court vision. With no one within five feet of him even when he had the ball, his great court vision became even better. A main part of the reason Ray Allen was able to destroy the Spurs was Rondo was able to feed him easy passes at the perfect time.

Even though the Spurs weren't really defending him, all he would have to do was feign going to the basket and the defense would have to collapse to respect his quickness. That alone allowed Big Baby to get about ten open looks.

And then with so much space, Rondo himself started knocking down jumpers. You could call those fluke shots but most those looks were so wide open than even Rondo could knock them down.

A better strategy would have been pressuring him when he had the ball and just not rotating to him when he would go up for a shot. By pressuring him, the Spurs could have at least made it difficult for him to find teammates. Pressuring him made even more sense than usual because he was obviously still not 100%. He was limping around the court and was about half as explosive as usual due to his ankle injury.

I was sure there was going to be an adjustment at halftime but it didn't happen. Rondo was able to dish out 22 assists without breaking a sweat or making a difficult pass.

The defensive gameplan the last two games have been too soft. It's no mistake the Knicks and Celtics combined to shoot about 60%. The Spurs give no resistance at the point of attack and then wonder why the opposition is getting whatever look they want. Against Rondo specifically, the Spurs' strategy was like not sending a pass rush against a quarterback with a weak arm and then watching the quarterback dink and dump their way to 400 yards.

Parker isn't exactly Mark Price but no team has the chutzpah to totally ignore him. It's just not a viable defensive strategy against a star point guard, which Rondo certainly qualifies.

[timvp]

I know Rondo can't shoot but sagging soooo far off of him all game did more harm than good. Against regular defenses, Rondo has great court vision. With no one within five feet of him even when he had the ball, his great court vision became even better. A main part of the reason Ray Allen was able to destroy the Spurs was Rondo was able to feed him easy passes at the perfect time.

Even though the Spurs weren't really defending him, all he would have to do was feign going to the basket and the defense would have to collapse to respect his quickness. That alone allowed Big Baby to get about ten open looks.

And then with so much space, Rondo himself started knocking down jumpers. You could call those fluke shots but most those looks were so wide open than even Rondo could knock them down.

A better strategy would have been pressuring him when he had the ball and just not rotating to him when he would go up for a shot. By pressuring him, the Spurs could have at least made it difficult for him to find teammates. Pressuring him made even more sense than usual because he was obviously still not 100%. He was limping around the court and was about half as explosive as usual due to his ankle injury.

I was sure there was going to be an adjustment at halftime but it didn't happen. Rondo was able to dish out 22 assists without breaking a sweat or making a difficult pass.

The defensive gameplan the last two games have been too soft. It's no mistake the Knicks and Celtics combined to shoot about 60%. The Spurs give no resistance at the point of attack and then wonder why the opposition is getting whatever look they want. Against Rondo specifically, the Spurs' strategy was like not sending a pass rush against a quarterback with a weak arm and then watching the quarterback dink and dump their way to 400 yards.

Parker isn't exactly Mark Price but no team has the chutzpah to totally ignore him. It's just not a viable defensive strategy against a star point guard, which Rondo certainly qualifies.

Stop complaining. Are you PMSing? Spurs lose a couple games and you are melting down.

[fantasyfootball]

The Lakers had no problem beating a healthy C's with the strategy of laying off Rajon, how come the Spurs can't do it against an injured C's. Come one, get your shit together, we gave you the blue print already.

blueprint is 1 word

[NASpurs]

Two posts in a row where timvp talks to himself.

[fantasyfootball]

Stop complaining. Are you PMSing? Spurs lose a couple games and you are melting down.

Two teams just went ballistic on the Spurs on back-to-back nights. You can either take the fairy tale Bill Land approach of tipping your hat to the opponent or try to be better than a second round playoff team and figure out how to not get lit up like a Christmas tree.

[Bender]

timvp is messing with our heads again

[Dex]

Either timvp is losing his touch, or Kori is forgetting to sign her posts as timvp.

[lefty]

Cant blame the Spurs

Rondo to Allen is automatic

[Yorae]

I'm a bit confused...

[Dex]

Cant blame the Spurs

Rondo to Allen is automatic

And when did they sign Big Baby Chamberlain?

[timvp]

Stop complaining. Are you PMSing? Spurs lose a couple games and you are melting down.

I'm good, bro. These two games should allow Pop to keep the team's attention for a good month. But, yeah, I want the winning to resume. Finishing with a top seed helps the Spurs' playoff chances tremendously. No longer are they good enough to win multiple road series.

[NASpurs]

http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l2xy3u8gV41qc073co1_400.gif

[200 miles]

No longer are they good enough to win multiple road series.

Yes, but do you think Mr. I-dont-give-a-crap-about-the-regular-season Popovich knows that?

[ElNono]

Besides the lols... Rondo is a top PG for a reason. He's a very good player. I wasn't necessarily mad at daring him to shoot. Sometimes you need to gamble. Tonight it didn't pay off.

[itzsoweezee]

yup, teams have been making that mistake all season, and the results are always that same.

i'd figure popovich or an assistant would've done the proper scouting and figured it out. hell, even truehoop has been harping about this.

[austN Spur]

Even though it sucks to lose, this loss was or is better than the spurs loss to the magic. Sometimes its just not your night. If the knicks and celtics dont have great games then the spurs win pretty easily. Sometimes its just not your night and I guess it wasnt their night. Either way its: Go Spurs Go

[EricB]

Yes, but do you think Mr. I-dont-give-a-crap-about-the-regular-season Popovich knows that?


You mean the guy who said he was gonna put more emphasis on winning regular season games this year?

[Dex]

http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l2xy3u8gV41qc073co1_400.gif

:tu

[ElNono]

You mean the guy who said he was gonna put more emphasis on winning regular season games this year?

Then turns around and quits on a game that's still within reach? That guy?

[mexicanjunior]

You mean the guy who said he was gonna put more emphasis on winning regular season games this year?

Was there an article somewhere that had his quote on this? I only ask because someone in the game thread stated Pop didn't care about the regular season and I recalled him or someone in the FO stating they knew they needed HCA to compete.

[timaios]

So next game @Pacers.

The team that was 20/21 in that 3rd quarter against the Nuggets 2 months ago.

54 points in one quarter.

I can't wait... :lol

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

timvp =
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h181/amandasbabyboy/memyselfandirene_____2.jpg

[ElNono]

Was there an article somewhere that had his quote on this? I only ask because someone in the game thread stated Pop didn't care about the regular season and I recalled him or someone in the FO stating they knew they needed HCA to compete.

RC Buford was the one that said HCA was key.

[EricB]

Then turns around and quits on a game that's still within reach? That guy?


The knicks game was only in reach to people that are drunk.

[DMC]

The Lakers had no problem beating a healthy C's with the strategy of laying off Rajon, how come the Spurs can't do it against an injured C's. Come one, get your shit together, we gave you the blue print already.
Yeah, but the Bucks gave you hell huh? Oh and the Grizz.. Then again so did we.

[duncan228]

More Rondo. (Sorry for the format.)


Rondo’s 22 assists rank among top four opponent totals in Spurs history (http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2011/01/05/rondos-22-assists-rank-among-top-four-opponent-totals-in-spurs-history/)
Tim Griffin

Name Team Date Assists Score (SA is first score)

John Stockton @Utah 1-15-91 28 102-124

Kevin Johnson Phoenix 4-16-94 25 94-96

Rajon Rondo @Boston 1-5-11 22 103-105

Kevin Porter @Detroit 12-23-78 22 130-126

John Stockton Utah 4-19-92 21 90-101

John Stockton Utah 3-11-91 20 105-96

John Stockton @Utah 3-3-90 20 96-112

Kevin Johnson @Phoenix 4-15-89 20 91-137

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2011/01/05/rondos-22-assists-rank-among-top-four-opponent-totals-in-spurs-history/

[ElNono]

The knicks game was only in reach to people that are drunk.

:drunk

[Dex]

Thanks for rubbing it in, 228. :lol :toast

[austN Spur]

how was the knick game not in reach. all the spurs needed in that game was back to back stops and after tonight or just being a spurs fan over the past couple of decades...........why would you EVER.....EVER give up on the spurs

[Dex]

how was the knick game not in reach. all the spurs needed in that game was back to back stops and after tonight or just being a spurs fan over the past couple of decades...........why would you EVER.....EVER give up on the spurs

I agree both with this sentiment, and that Pop waved the white flag too early. But I understand where people who feel like we had no chance are coming from. I'm not sure if the Spurs had been able to string together 2-3 stops the entire game; what were the odds they were going to be able to do it in the crunch? The Knicks were rolling like a freight train.

It was definitely a long shot, but still....sometimes even long shots hit their target. I really think that giving them at least another 90 seconds of playing time could've at least determined whether they truly had a chance at that game or not.

[ElNono]

I agree both with this sentiment, and that Pop waved the white flag too early. But I understand where people who feel like we had no chance are coming from. I'm not sure if the Spurs had been able to string together 2-3 stops the entire game; what were the odds they were going to be able to do it in the crunch? The Knicks were rolling like a freight train.

It was definitely a long shot, but still....sometimes even long shots hit their target. I really think that giving them at least another 90 seconds of playing time could've at least determined whether they truly had a chance at that game or not.

If you lose, you lose. Emptying the bench with 3 mins to go is pretty much guaranteeing the loss. I understand Pop was mad and all, and that he likes to pull that stuff though.

[crc21209]

I gotta admit Rondo is one of my favorite players in the league that isn't a Spur, but timvp's right...he's an NBA player for a reason...you can't leave him THAT wide open, no matter how bad his J is...he can still knock it down here and there.

[21_Blessings]

but timvp's right...he's an NBA player for a reason...you can't leave him THAT wide open, no matter how bad his J is...he can still knock it down here and there.

Thing is, you can leave him wide open if you have the right defensive personnel.

Defensive personnel the Spurs do not have and the very reason why they aren't a serious contender to win the NBA championship.

[austN Spur]

If i had to complain about something tonight it would be the fact that big baby hit fadeaway after fadeaway.

It reminds me of this guy named Julian. he was about 15 to 20 years older than everyone down at the courts and would hit the most bullshit shots. except for him they were not BS.

for big baby i think i can say they were BS

[TD 21]

I know Rondo can't shoot but sagging soooo far off of him all game did more harm than good. Against regular defenses, Rondo has great court vision. With no one within five feet of him even when he had the ball, his great court vision became even better. A main part of the reason Ray Allen was able to destroy the Spurs was Rondo was able to feed him easy passes at the perfect time.

Even though the Spurs weren't really defending him, all he would have to do was feign going to the basket and the defense would have to collapse to respect his quickness. That alone allowed Big Baby to get about ten open looks.

And then with so much space, Rondo himself started knocking down jumpers. You could call those fluke shots but most those looks were so wide open than even Rondo could knock them down.

A better strategy would have been pressuring him when he had the ball and just not rotating to him when he would go up for a shot. By pressuring him, the Spurs could have at least made it difficult for him to find teammates. Pressuring him made even more sense than usual because he was obviously still not 100%. He was limping around the court and was about half as explosive as usual due to his ankle injury.

I was sure there was going to be an adjustment at halftime but it didn't happen. Rondo was able to dish out 22 assists without breaking a sweat or making a difficult pass.

The defensive gameplan the last two games have been too soft. It's no mistake the Knicks and Celtics combined to shoot about 60%. The Spurs give no resistance at the point of attack and then wonder why the opposition is getting whatever look they want. Against Rondo specifically, the Spurs' strategy was like not sending a pass rush against a quarterback with a weak arm and then watching the quarterback dink and dump their way to 400 yards.

Parker isn't exactly Mark Price but no team has the chutzpah to totally ignore him. It's just not a viable defensive strategy against a star point guard, which Rondo certainly qualifies.

Perhaps the biggest myth in basketball is that by going under the screen on the screen-and-roll with poor shooting PG's, you're going to limit their effectiveness. Any PG with the quickness, court vision and passing ability of Rondo, will pick a team apart doing that, because those guys thrive off of time and space and when you go under, that's what you're giving them.

Like any good player, different looks needs to be thrown at him. At times they should have blitzed, trapped, hedged, showed and recovered, went over, went under, etc. You give him a steady diet (particularly when it includes time and space) and you're asking for chaos to ensue.

[LnGrrrR]

The Lakers had no problem beating a healthy C's with the strategy of laying off Rajon, how come the Spurs can't do it against an injured C's. Come one, get your shit together, we gave you the blue print already.

That was a quick month.

[LnGrrrR]

The Lakers had no problem beating a healthy C's with the strategy of laying off Rajon, how come the Spurs can't do it against an injured C's. Come one, get your shit together, we gave you the blue print already.

No problem = 7 games

[jjktkk]

I know Rondo can't shoot but sagging soooo far off of him all game did more harm than good. Against regular defenses, Rondo has great court vision. With no one within five feet of him even when he had the ball, his great court vision became even better. A main part of the reason Ray Allen was able to destroy the Spurs was Rondo was able to feed him easy passes at the perfect time.

Even though the Spurs weren't really defending him, all he would have to do was feign going to the basket and the defense would have to collapse to respect his quickness. That alone allowed Big Baby to get about ten open looks.

And then with so much space, Rondo himself started knocking down jumpers. You could call those fluke shots but most those looks were so wide open than even Rondo could knock them down.

A better strategy would have been pressuring him when he had the ball and just not rotating to him when he would go up for a shot. By pressuring him, the Spurs could have at least made it difficult for him to find teammates. Pressuring him made even more sense than usual because he was obviously still not 100%. He was limping around the court and was about half as explosive as usual due to his ankle injury.

I was sure there was going to be an adjustment at halftime but it didn't happen. Rondo was able to dish out 22 assists without breaking a sweat or making a difficult pass.

The defensive gameplan the last two games have been too soft. It's no mistake the Knicks and Celtics combined to shoot about 60%. The Spurs give no resistance at the point of attack and then wonder why the opposition is getting whatever look they want. Against Rondo specifically, the Spurs' strategy was like not sending a pass rush against a quarterback with a weak arm and then watching the quarterback dink and dump their way to 400 yards.

Parker isn't exactly Mark Price but no team has the chutzpah to totally ignore him. It's just not a viable defensive strategy against a star point guard, which Rondo certainly qualifies.

Thats Rondo's weak link. His jumper. If you pressure him hes quick enough and long enough to finish, or dish.

[austN Spur]

i for one am not afraid of the Celtics. bring them bitches on in the playoffs. Sun shines on a dogs ass anyday

off to xbox live for one hour before I call it a night Go Spurs GO:flag:

[jjktkk]

Stop complaining. Are you PMSing? Spurs lose a couple games and you are melting down.

Ahhhhhhh, so Kori is lakaluva.

[DeadlyDynasty]

i for one am not afraid of the Celtics. bring them bitches on in the playoffs

you'll never get the chance to see them, tbh.

[austN Spur]

you'll never get the chance to see them, tbh.

the day i give a Fuck what a laker hoe says will be a day Way after :flag:I listen to my wife.

[mazerrackham]

I know Rondo can't shoot but sagging soooo far off of him all game did more harm than good. Against regular defenses, Rondo has great court vision. With no one within five feet of him even when he had the ball, his great court vision became even better. A main part of the reason Ray Allen was able to destroy the Spurs was Rondo was able to feed him easy passes at the perfect time.

Even though the Spurs weren't really defending him, all he would have to do was feign going to the basket and the defense would have to collapse to respect his quickness. That alone allowed Big Baby to get about ten open looks.

And then with so much space, Rondo himself started knocking down jumpers. You could call those fluke shots but most those looks were so wide open than even Rondo could knock them down.

A better strategy would have been pressuring him when he had the ball and just not rotating to him when he would go up for a shot. By pressuring him, the Spurs could have at least made it difficult for him to find teammates. Pressuring him made even more sense than usual because he was obviously still not 100%. He was limping around the court and was about half as explosive as usual due to his ankle injury.

I was sure there was going to be an adjustment at halftime but it didn't happen. Rondo was able to dish out 22 assists without breaking a sweat or making a difficult pass.

The defensive gameplan the last two games have been too soft. It's no mistake the Knicks and Celtics combined to shoot about 60%. The Spurs give no resistance at the point of attack and then wonder why the opposition is getting whatever look they want. Against Rondo specifically, the Spurs' strategy was like not sending a pass rush against a quarterback with a weak arm and then watching the quarterback dink and dump their way to 400 yards.

Parker isn't exactly Mark Price but no team has the chutzpah to totally ignore him. It's just not a viable defensive strategy against a star point guard, which Rondo certainly qualifies.

The sagging off of Rondo opening up the passing lanes is the conclusion I came to in my synopsis as well. I don't like the strategy one bit.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Thing is, you can leave him wide open if you have the right defensive personnel.

Defensive personnel the Spurs do not have and the very reason why they aren't a serious contender to win the NBA championship.

Lakers defense and offense is a joke, thanks

:wakeup

[DeadlyDynasty]

Lakers defense and offense is a joke, thanks

:wakeup

Why u mad, brah?

You guys won that December championship fair and square, and nobody can ever take that from you :toast

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Why u mad, brah?

You guys won that December championship fair and square, and nobody can ever take that from you :toast

You're one of the better Laker posters no doubt, 21 Blessings is kind of a bitch :toast

[jjktkk]

Why u mad, brah?

You guys won that December championship fair and square, and nobody can ever take that from you :toast

So the Lakers got the January championship in their sights? GL. :toast

[21_Blessings]

Lakers defense and offense is a joke, thanks


A playoff vetted defense and offense.

Manu, Jefferson, Parker are mediocre perimeter defenders at best and that's being generous (Parker). Hill and Neal with no significant post-season experience.

Nothing to do with scheme as timvp hypothesized. You don't have the personnel to play championship caliber defense.

It's 7 seconds or bust. :lmao

[polandprzem]

When I sometimes talks to myself on forum everybody thinks I'm crazy - but whatever :)


timvp is right on money on that one.


Many times rondo just stood at the top of the key or at the 3pt line and was waiting for shooters to come out of the screens. And With C's being the best at free the shooters- they demolished the spurs.

We all wanted to see how the spurs gonna play against elite teams. Now we know.

[ezau]

Stop complaining. Are you PMSing? Spurs lose a couple games and you are melting down.

Jesus Christ timvp, you're just so fucking obvious now. :lol:lol

[Old School 44]

Yes, defensively I would have been right up on Rondo.
If he goes by you and scores so be it. Kind of like how the Spurs play Nash, let him be a scorer. I was impressed with Rondo, he knocked down some big shots at the end. Also, many of his passes seem to be soft and right on the money where shooters can go cleanly right into their shots.

[Agloco]

Two posts in a row where timvp talks to himself.

rofl.......I completely missed those.

I thought you were talking about lakaluva responding to him. Same thing tbh.

[romain.star]

More Rondo. (Sorry for the format.)



http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2011/01/05/rondos-22-assists-rank-among-top-four-opponent-totals-in-spurs-history/

First time in parker career that he allows +20 assists?

[Cane]

After that track meet against the Knicks I was surprised that the Spurs even came close to winning this one. Didn't that Knicks game set this season's record for points score at the half?

I remember months ago that Parker commented on Rondo being overrated for a similar reason haters used to use against Parker: he's only good because of the talent around him. Well Parker...Rondo didn't have KG that game and he was still damn good!

Although I think teams should still sag off of Rondo and dare him to shoot wide open jumpers - they're more flukey than not if they go in. If Rondo gets close to the rim then treat him like Shaq since his FT % is also terrible. Ray Allen was also a beast and abused Hill and the rest of the Spurs on him throughout the game which might've accounted for a lot of Rondo's assists.

So far ya gotta say that Parker and the rest of the Spurs guards and their defensive plan have been pretty shitty against Felton, Allen and Rondo when it comes to end results. Plenty of stuff to work on although the basic plan of sagging off of Rondo will probably stay but definitely needs tweaks like how and when to collapse defenses especially with the scoring options the C's have.

As for the C's getting out of the East...well if they're healthy then they should be a favored contender but as each day goes on the Florida teams look stronger and hungrier and the C's have been dealing with serious injuries to multiple starters and reserves....I don't think they'll make it out of the East unless KG can return back to form or the Florida teams fall apart. The C's seem to have too many guys falling apart physically but the season's still young.

[timvp]

Bump.




I guess the coaching staff didn't believe that stove was hot the first time so they went right back to the same strategy. Most teams play off of Rondo, yes, but the Spurs give him so much got damn space. They literally let him do anything he wants above the free throw line. Like I said last time, he's too good of a passer to put no pressure on him.

And it's no mistake that he shoots like Reggie Miller against the Spurs and Chris Dudley against everyone else. I'm all for sagging off of him ... but you actually have to guard him when he has the ball. If for no other reason than to make his passes more difficult.

Pop and the coaches usually have great defensive strategies. Against the Celtics, they overcoach. Defending Rondo like he's a leper Does. Not. Work.

[Chomag]

Yep, any NBA caliber player can hit a shot when they are left the wide open.

[polandprzem]

Bump.




I guess the coaching staff didn't believe that stove was hot the first time so they went right back to the same strategy. Most teams play off of Rondo, yes, but the Spurs give him so much got damn space. They literally let him do anything he wants above the free throw line. Like I said last time, he's too good of a passer to put no pressure on him.

And it's no mistake that he shoots like Reggie Miller against the Spurs and Chris Dudley against everyone else. I'm all for sagging off of him ... but you actually have to guard him when he has the ball. If for no other reason than to make his passes more difficult.

Pop and the coaches usually have great defensive strategies. Against the Celtics, they overcoach. Defending Rondo like he's a leper Does. Not. Work.


Why the bump?

Nothing new. I was pissed last time that they gave him all floor.
Now again Rondo with 22 14 and 0!

Spurs are aware not getting anybody inside that's why shooters gonna kill them every time. The rotation is not stellar as well. But fooo it's not my thread

[timvp]

Why the bump?


Nothing new.

You answered your own question.

[pjjrfan]

Team defense or lack of it is what is hurting this team. Rondo hurt the Spurs but when he went to the bench they still scored, easily.

[chasky]

Pop is an asshole, if the guy make some mid range shoots. STOP GOING UNDER THE SCREEN. Or at leats mix it.

IF you play over and over the same defense, Rondo gets used to this and kill you. MIX IT!

[Spurminator]

Ridiculous amount of open shots, not only for Rondo but for everyone. Not sure what the hell we were doing but that was atrocious to watch.

[polandprzem]

You answered your own question.

I'm that good :tu



btw. Spurs not gonna meet Celtics again, so this thread is more bout bitching then anything else

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Zero turnovers for Rondo is the only stat to show how much we just run away from him and let him play us like a game of NBA Live

[Whisky Dog]

We have one hope for the playoffs: our team gets ridiculously hot and continues throughout, and somehow our defense picks up to good levels. I can't think of one time in NBA history that has happened.

We will not win more than 2 series without championship defense. It won't and will never happen.

[Brazil]

So we need 5 losses to see coming back timvp, thats a huge silver lining :)