Anti-Chemtrail posters are totally correct!

[Cant_Be_Faded]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/96/%27Ranch_Hand%27_run.jpg/800px-%27Ranch_Hand%27_run.jpg


I mean there is absolutely no proof or precedence for the UNITED STATES ever spraying shit over a populace. Zero. Nada. Zilch.

[Winehole23]

Vietnam?

[Winehole23]

Don't recall anyone denying it, C_B_F.


(A minor flap threatened to break out very briefly when LnGrrR made light of it. It petered out harmlessly instead.)

[Winehole23]

I don't understand why people aren't still pissed off about what the DOE did to us back in the fifties and sixties. But that's me.





(I wouldn't rule it out peremptorily that our government is experimenting on us right now, but certainly that doesn't mean I have to take a crapwagon like Parker seriously, much less do his homework for him. The constant hand-waving and lame appeals to authority got old a long time ago.

Parker needs to update his bullshit pronto. His most recent batch was facially defective IMO.)

[Blake]

I mean there is absolutely no proof or precedence for the UNITED STATES ever spraying shit over a populace. Zero. Nada. Zilch.

so you believe that the US is currently spraying shit over the populace?

if so, what do you believe is being sprayed on the populace and why?

[BlairForceDejuan]

Coca eradication

[MannyIsGod]

Really CBF?

[Blake]

HOUSTON -- Wildlife experts in Texas are weighing in after large amounts of dead birds were reportedly found across the country and around the world.

On New Year’s Eve in Beebe, Ariz., wildlife officials say they received reports of more than 5,000 blackbirds, starlings, and sparrows found dead in yards, roads and on roofs.

Just days later, 400 miles from Beebe in Labarre, La., reports came in of about 1,000 blackbirds and starlings found dead.

On Wednesday, there were new reports of groupings of dead birds in Sweden, and near Tyler, Texas.

“I think it can be alarming,” said Texas Parks & Wildlife Department biologist Winston Denton.

Denton is a member of the department’s “Kills and Spills” team. He saids bird kills are not uncommon, especially when dealing with blackbirds.

Denton said blackbirds don’t have a lot of regulatory protection and they travel in large numbers.

“We have an average of probably one a year along the upper Texas coast. It’s most common to happen in the winter time to late spring,” he said.

......

http://www.khou.com/news/local/Texas-Officials-Weigh-in-on-Dead-Birds-112980774.html

hard to believe nobody thought of chemtrails killing em

[Parker2112]

Skeptics who cant fathom an evil US Govt need to wrap their head around how a small/very small criminal component within the govt and behind the top secret rubber stamp, either/or the MIC or the intelligence community can use that status to carry out a personal agenda with impunity.

Secrecy and the chain of command, along with good people who want to believe the govt operates in our best interests at all times and who refuse to question "their govt" is enough to get er done from a top level.

Once this is clear, many members of the general public may seek a more dilligent position with regards to questioning their government, and not settling for the blind faith/head in the sand technique.

[Parker2112]

I don't understand why people aren't still pissed off about what the DOE did to us back in the fifties and sixties. But that's me.





(I wouldn't rule it out peremptorily that our government is experimenting on us right now, but certainly that doesn't mean I have to take a crapwagon like Parker seriously, much less do his homework for him. The constant hand-waving and lame appeals to authority got old a long time ago.

Parker needs to update his bullshit pronto. His most recent batch was facially defective IMO.)

Im not here to educate you, convince you, or teach you a goddamn thing, WH. You can call it handwaving, I call it sharing info with an intelligent community who can judge for themselves. But I dont think you need hand-holding any more than you need handwaving.

[Winehole23]

I call it sharing info with an intelligent community who can judge for themselves. As presented by you, I call it a crapwagon.

But I don't think you need hand-holding any more than you need handwaving.Hopefully, that means you're about to shut up. Wouldn't bet on that, tho.

[Winehole23]

Skeptics who cant fathom an evil US Govt need to wrap their head around how a small/very small criminal component within the govt and behind the top secret rubber stamp, either/or the MIC or the intelligence community can use that status to carry out a personal agenda with impunity.

Secrecy and the chain of command, along with good people who want to believe the govt operates in our best interests at all times and who refuse to question "their govt" is enough to get er done from a top level.

Once this is clear, many members of the general public may seek a more dilligent position with regards to questioning their government, and not settling for the blind faith/head in the sand technique.Everybody can wrap their head around that. Please catch up.

[MannyIsGod]

crapwagon. :lmao

[Winehole23]

@Parker:

Just because you don't hear your own echo yet, doesn't mean other posters aren't wise yet.

[Winehole23]

An observation:your own credentials as bearer of light in this forum would appear to be purely self-awarded, to date.

The frequency of the self-awarded torch discloses insecurity and is a clear aesthetic flaw. Just saying. You can stop patting yourself on the back for bringing up the general level, at any time you choose.



(Tyson_Chandler might be a fan. He warmed right up to boutons, talked to him like a guy. I bet he'd go for your bs, Parker.)

[Winehole23]

(Note RE: self-awarded torch bearer. Perh. related to premature touchdown dance.)

[Winehole23]

Preliminary conclusion, ritualized insecurity.

[admiralsnackbar]

Skeptics who cant fathom an evil US Govt need to wrap their head around how a small/very small criminal component within the govt and behind the top secret rubber stamp, either/or the MIC or the intelligence community can use that status to carry out a personal agenda with impunity.

Secrecy and the chain of command, along with good people who want to believe the govt operates in our best interests at all times and who refuse to question "their govt" is enough to get er done from a top level.

Once this is clear, many members of the general public may seek a more dilligent position with regards to questioning their government, and not settling for the blind faith/head in the sand technique.

Do you understand what a skeptic is? He's a person who won't believe something without proof. As all you can offer is theory without anything resembling credible evidence to support it (not to mention a lot of strikes against it since it involves a massive conspiracy which nobody has leaked to protect their fellow citizens).

Why isn't it possible that you've got your head in the sand? You clearly have blind faith that some secret cabal is up to no good (on a grand scale), even if you can't ever articulate why in a persuasive way.

[Parker2112]

Do you understand what a skeptic is? He's a person who won't believe something without proof. As all you can offer is theory without anything resembling credible evidence to support it (not to mention a lot of strikes against it since it involves a massive conspiracy which nobody has leaked to protect their fellow citizens).

Why isn't it possible that you've got your head in the sand? You clearly have blind faith that some secret cabal is up to no good (on a grand scale), even if you can't ever articulate why in a persuasive way.

Its entirely possible the theory is fos. Where did you see that I said the theory was bulletproof? Do I believe it? Yeah, I do. Why? Because contrails today act completely different than they ever have in my 35+ years of memories.

The point of my post above was not to scold skeptics for not believing, but instead to get skeptics to begin to distinguish between an "evil" US Govt vs. evil criminals within the US govt.

Make sense?

[slacker77]

A friend and I were talking about this the other day.The question I have is,why don't they carry out these missions at night?One would think it would harder to see them,wouldn't it?

[Blake]

A friend and I were talking about this the other day.The question I have is,why don't they carry out these missions at night?One would think it would harder to see them,wouldn't it?

that's one question.

my main question is just 'why?'

[Winehole23]

The point of my post above was not to scold skeptics for not believing, but instead to get skeptics to begin to distinguish between an "evil" US Govt vs. evil criminals within the US govt.

Make sense?You are still trying to guide the thinking of skeptical posters. Hi.larious.

[Winehole23]

After calling us all trolls, hacks, a-holes, perversely blinkered and subservient sheep to our globalist masters. lol.

[Nbadan]

Who? What and Why?

What In The World Are They Spraying? (2010) (http://www.amazon.com/What-World-Are-They-Spraying/dp/B00483VQTE?ie=UTF8&tag=permacultucom-20&link_code=btl&camp=213689&creative=392969)

[Blake]

Who? What and Why?

What In The World Are They Spraying? (2010) (http://www.amazon.com/What-World-Are-They-Spraying/dp/B00483VQTE?ie=UTF8&tag=permacultucom-20&link_code=btl&camp=213689&creative=392969)


Editorial Reviews
Product Description
The Chemtrail/Geo-Engineering Coverup Revealed. By now everyone has seen crisscrossing streaks of white clouds trailing behind jet aircraft, stretching from horizon to horizon, eventually turning the sky into a murky haze. Our innate intelligence tells us these are not mere vapor trails from jet engines, but no one yet has probed the questions: who is doing this and why. With the release of this video, all of that has changed. Here is the story of a rapidly developing industry called geo-engineering, driven by scientists, corporations, and governments intent on changing global climate, controlling the weather, and altering the chemical composition of soil and water - all supposedly for the betterment of mankind. Although officials insist that these programs are only in the discussion phase, evidence is abundant that they have been underway since about 1990 - and the effect has been devastating to crops, wildlife, and human health. We are being sprayed with toxic substances without our consent and, to add insult to injury, they are lying to us about it. Do not watch this documentary if you have high blood pressure.

:lol

why do we have to buy a video?

those are really very simple questions that should be answered with just a few words.

[Nbadan]

why pay?

jf0khstYDLA

[RandomGuy]

Skeptics who cant fathom an evil US Govt need to wrap their head around how a small/very small criminal component within the govt and behind the top secret rubber stamp, either/or the MIC or the intelligence community can use that status to carry out a personal agenda with impunity.

Secrecy and the chain of command, along with good people who want to believe the govt operates in our best interests at all times and who refuse to question "their govt" is enough to get er done from a top level.

Once this is clear, many members of the general public may seek a more dilligent position with regards to questioning their government, and not settling for the blind faith/head in the sand technique.

What I can't fathom is how you think something physically impossible, i.e. spraying chemicals targeted at the ground but doing it at 30,000 feet, is a conspiracy.

[Blake]

why pay?

why watch an hour and half video? why can't you just quickly answer?

I'll help produce a fill out form for you:


Type "what is being sprayed" here: _______________

Type "by who/whom" here: ________________

Type "the reason why" here _________________

Very, very, very simple and I bet it would take you less time to fill out this form than it did for you to imbed the youtube video.

[RandomGuy]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/96/%27Ranch_Hand%27_run.jpg/800px-%27Ranch_Hand%27_run.jpg


I mean there is absolutely no proof or precedence for the UNITED STATES ever spraying shit over a populace. Zero. Nada. Zilch.

I believe I made the point that spraying like that takes place with giant tankers at low level flights.

It is physically impossible to hit the ground with chemicals sprayed at 20-30,000 feet, in any concentration so as to affect anything.

Basically, any chemicals would simply freeze, become an ice cloud, then become dispersed by upper-atmosphere water vapor (which is what the "chemtrails" are.

If you want to claim that "chemtrails" are somehow chemical weapons, feel free to learn the physics and metrology required to write a paper on it, and prove all them no-nuthin' scientists wrong.

[RandomGuy]

Its entirely possible the theory is fos. Where did you see that I said the theory was bulletproof? Do I believe it? Yeah, I do. Why? Because contrails today act completely different than they ever have in my 35+ years of memories.

The point of my post above was not to scold skeptics for not believing, but instead to get skeptics to begin to distinguish between an "evil" US Govt vs. evil criminals within the US govt.

Make sense?

Is it possible the behavior of contrails is different today for some reason other than secret government programs to spray some form of "mind-control" chemicals?

Several plausible explanations have been put forth that do not require massive conspiracies.

Is it possible that contrails have not changed in 35 years, but your perception of them has?

Human memory is consistantly proven quite fallible, and I find it difficult to believe that you were really all that aware of contrails at the age of 20-

This theory is not only NOT bulletproof, it doesn't even meet the vaguest standards of common sense.

The only way to really believe it is to be consciously and deliberately ignorant of the scientific arguments that point out that it is physically impossible.

[Winehole23]

It is physically impossible to hit the ground with chemicals sprayed at 20-30,000 feet, in any concentration so as to affect anything.This never occurred to me, until now.

[Blake]

Agent OrangeFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaJump to: navigation, search
For other uses, see Agent Orange (disambiguation).

U.S. Army Huey helicopter spraying Agent Orange over Vietnamese agricultural land
Vietnamese man born with deformed face as a result of prenatal exposure to Agent Orange.Agent Orange is the code name for one of the herbicides and defoliants used by the U.S. military as part of its herbicidal warfare program, Operation Ranch Hand, during the Vietnam War from 1961 to 1971.

A 50:50 mixture of 2,4,5-T and 2,4-D, it was manufactured for the U.S. Department of Defense primarily by Monsanto Corporation and Dow Chemical. The 2,4,5-T used to produce Agent Orange was later discovered to be contaminated with 2,3,7,8-Tetrachlorodibenzodioxin, an extremely toxic dioxin compound. It was given its name from the color of the orange-striped 55 US gallon (200 L) barrels in which it was shipped, and was by far the most widely used of the so-called "Rainbow Herbicides".[1]

During the Vietnam war, between 1962 and 1971, the United States military sprayed 20,000,000 US gallons (80,000,000 L) of chemical herbicides and defoliants in Vietnam, eastern Laos and parts of Cambodia, as part of Operation Ranch Hand.[2] The program's goal was to defoliate forested and rural land, depriving guerrillas of cover; another goal was to induce forced draft urbanization, destroying the ability of peasants to support themselves in the countryside, and forcing them to flee to the U.S. dominated cities, thus depriving the guerrillas of their rural support base and food supply.[3][4]

Air Force records show that at least 6,542 spraying missions took place over the course of Operation Ranch Hand.[5] By 1971, 12 percent of the total area of South Vietnam had been sprayed with defoliating chemicals, which were often applied at rates that were 13 times as high as the legal USDA limit.[6] In South Vietnam alone, an estimated 10 million hectares of agricultural land were ultimately destroyed.[7] In some areas TCDD concentrations in soil and water were hundreds of times greater than the levels considered "safe" by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.[8][9] Overall, more than 20% of South Vietnam's forests were sprayed at least once over a nine year period.[4]

The US began to target food crops in October 1962, primarily using Agent Blue. In 1965, 42 percent of all herbicide spraying was dedicated to food crops.[4] Rural-to-urban migration rates dramatically increased in South Vietnam, as peasants escaped the destruction and famine in the countryside by fleeing to the U.S.-dominated cities. The urban population in South Vietnam more than tripled: from 2.8 million people in 1958, to 8 million by 1971. The rapid flow of people led to a fast-paced and uncontrolled urbanization; an estimated 1.5 million people were living in Saigon slums, while many South Vietnamese elites and U.S. personnel lived in luxury.[10]

According to Vietnamese Ministry of Foreign Affairs, 4.8 million Vietnamese people were exposed to Agent Orange, resulting in 400,000 people being killed or maimed, and 500,000 children born with birth defects.[11]

k.

[LnGrrrR]

This never occurred to me, until now.

Pshaw. I mentioned that in another thread! :) The military does get training on certain chemicals (nerve/blood/blisting/choking agents, and relative persistence).

Parker's reply was that he didn't know how it could happen, but they've got to be spraying for SOME reason, so it must work... somehow.

[TeyshaBlue]

Pshaw. I mentioned that in another thread! :) The military does get training on certain chemicals (nerve/blood/blisting/choking agents, and relative persistence).

Parker's reply was that he didn't know how it could happen, but they've got to be spraying for SOME reason, so it must work... somehow.

Parker likes to hang out at the tautology club.

[BradLohaus]

Didn't the feds admit to testing some kind of chemical spray over a town decades ago? I think it was in North Carolina in the 50s, but I'm far from certain on that.

IIRC, people got sick and a few may have died, and the feds had to admit to it and pay out some money. Good luck on google if you want to check.

[RandomGuy]

Agent OrangeFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaJump to: navigation, search
For other uses, see Agent Orange (disambiguation).

U.S. Army Huey helicopter spraying Agent Orange over Vietnamese agricultural land
Vietnamese man born with deformed face as a result of prenatal exposure to Agent Orange.Agent Orange is the code name for one of the herbicides and defoliants used by the U.S. military as part of its herbicidal warfare program, Operation Ranch Hand, during the Vietnam War from 1961 to 1971.

A 50:50 mixture of 2,4,5-T and 2,4-D, it was manufactured for the U.S. Department of Defense primarily by Monsanto Corporation and Dow Chemical. The 2,4,5-T used to produce Agent Orange was later discovered to be contaminated with 2,3,7,8-Tetrachlorodibenzodioxin, an extremely toxic dioxin compound. It was given its name from the color of the orange-striped 55 US gallon (200 L) barrels in which it was shipped, and was by far the most widely used of the so-called "Rainbow Herbicides".[1]

During the Vietnam war, between 1962 and 1971, the United States military sprayed 20,000,000 US gallons (80,000,000 L) of chemical herbicides and defoliants in Vietnam, eastern Laos and parts of Cambodia, as part of Operation Ranch Hand.[2] The program's goal was to defoliate forested and rural land, depriving guerrillas of cover; another goal was to induce forced draft urbanization, destroying the ability of peasants to support themselves in the countryside, and forcing them to flee to the U.S. dominated cities, thus depriving the guerrillas of their rural support base and food supply.[3][4]

Air Force records show that at least 6,542 spraying missions took place over the course of Operation Ranch Hand.[5] By 1971, 12 percent of the total area of South Vietnam had been sprayed with defoliating chemicals, which were often applied at rates that were 13 times as high as the legal USDA limit.[6] In South Vietnam alone, an estimated 10 million hectares of agricultural land were ultimately destroyed.[7] In some areas TCDD concentrations in soil and water were hundreds of times greater than the levels considered "safe" by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.[8][9] Overall, more than 20% of South Vietnam's forests were sprayed at least once over a nine year period.[4]

The US began to target food crops in October 1962, primarily using Agent Blue. In 1965, 42 percent of all herbicide spraying was dedicated to food crops.[4] Rural-to-urban migration rates dramatically increased in South Vietnam, as peasants escaped the destruction and famine in the countryside by fleeing to the U.S.-dominated cities. The urban population in South Vietnam more than tripled: from 2.8 million people in 1958, to 8 million by 1971. The rapid flow of people led to a fast-paced and uncontrolled urbanization; an estimated 1.5 million people were living in Saigon slums, while many South Vietnamese elites and U.S. personnel lived in luxury.[10]

According to Vietnamese Ministry of Foreign Affairs, 4.8 million Vietnamese people were exposed to Agent Orange, resulting in 400,000 people being killed or maimed, and 500,000 children born with birth defects.[11]

Area of Vietnam: 128,527 sq mi
Area of Lower 48 states: roughly 2,000,000 sq mi

Your post mentions usage of almost 20,000,000 gallons of chemicals, used over a short period of a few years in Vietnam.

If you will note the picture in the OP this was done at low levels, as all chemical spaying must be done, by fleets of obvious purpose-built tankers, maintained and supplied by the entire logistics net of the US military.

To affect the US population with some super-secret chemical the US, even if one limited such spraying to metropolitan areas would require an effort at least an order of magnitude larger.

This would require an operation involving tens of thousands of people on a permanent basis.

People to build the tankers, or secretely modify existing airplanes to do something they weren't designed for, people to maintain these systems, people to manufacture/design whatever it is being "chemtrailed", people to move this chemical to where it is to be dispersed etc.

Any ONE of these people having an attack of conscience could easily reveal the whole conspiracy. The limited number of places that such tankers would be built also works against keeping this a secret.

Thank you for pointing out the scope and scale of the spraying operation in Vietnam. It gives us a good baseline for determining what would be required for this "chemtrail" theory (entire US for decades, and continuing today) to work, even if it wasn't physically impossible to spray chemicals at 30,000 feet in the manner proposed.

[RandomGuy]

Pshaw. I mentioned that in another thread! :) The military does get training on certain chemicals (nerve/blood/blisting/choking agents, and relative persistence).

Parker's reply was that he didn't know how it could happen, but they've got to be spraying for SOME reason, so it must work... somehow.


Its entirely possible the theory is fos. Where did you see that I said the theory was bulletproof? Do I believe it? Yeah, I do. Why? Because contrails today act completely different than they ever have in my 35+ years of memories.

...

[Do I understand the physics and science involved, and why it is physically impossible? No.]
[Do I have any testimony from someone involved in building the planes? No]
[Do I have any testimony from someone involved in secretly modifying existing planes? No.]
[Do I have any testimony from someone involved in researching the chemical they must be spraying? No]
[Do I have any idea what chemicals might be involved, specifically? No. I have some third-hand data from someone who once took some soil samples in some random location though.
[Do I have any testimony from anybody involved in re-filling the spraying planes with hundreds of millions of gallons of chemicals over the span of decades up to present day? No.
[Do I have pictures of any plane showing obvious spraying equipment? No, other than a spoof a skeptic did that got sucked up as gospel by fellow true-believers, of course.]

Make sense?


Only to you, Parker. Only to you.

[RandomGuy]

For a fun excercise, let's see where Parker's logic can take us.

"The Us government has evil people in it, therefore they are quite possibly spraying us with "chemtrail" chemicals..See I have pictures of low level spraying of chemicals by the US government in other places. I even have pictures of what I think are the results of this spraying ."

The underlying logical form:

The US government has evil people in it, therefore they are possibly doing X . See I have pictures of the US government doing Y , which is kinda like X .

Let's substitute something fun for X and Y.

The US government has evil people in it. therefore they are possibly training purple unicorns strapped with explosives to run up to terrorist hide-outs and detonate themselves. See I have pictures of dophins strapped with mines that were trained to swim up to ships and detonate. I even have pictures of explosions at terrorist hide-outs.

Do I understand that purple unicorns don't exist? No.
Do I have any testimony from someone involved in training the purple unicorns? No
Do I have any testimony from someone involved in secretly breeding existing horses into unicorns? No.
Do I have any testimony from someone involved in researching the unicorn physchology ? No
Do I have any idea how something like purple unicorns can be moved around with no one noticing? No. I have some third-hand data from someone who once took some soil samples in some random location though.
Do I have any testimony from anybody who has witnessed a purple unicorn in combat? No.
Do I have pictures of any purple unicorn remains? No, other than a spoof a skeptic did that got sucked up as gospel by fellow true-believers, of course.

What I do offer as proof is that explosions at terrorist camps don't look like explosions I saw as a kid, and pictures of explosions at terrorist camps.

I mean, how else do you explain how terrorist camps blow up? Sheesh. What is with you people who just don't believe your government is so evil that they train innocent unicorns to blow up terrorists? I mean these people are capable of anything.

[Winehole23]

IIRC, people got sick and a few may have died, and the feds had to admit to it and pay out some money. Good luck on google if you want to check.Is there a search engine you'd recommend, or would one need to go to a library to find the information?

[MannyIsGod]

Pshaw. I mentioned that in another thread! :) The military does get training on certain chemicals (nerve/blood/blisting/choking agents, and relative persistence).

Parker's reply was that he didn't know how it could happen, but they've got to be spraying for SOME reason, so it must work... somehow.


Obviously if its forming upper level cirrus clouds its not coming down right away.

Precipitation comes from low level clouds.

[Winehole23]

This has been planned. We have elites ... I don't know what you want to call em ... one worlders, illuminati, I don't ... whatever you want to call em.

[boutons_deux]

DHS wanted to spray the Rio Grande river banks with Agent Fucking Orange on the riparian Carrizo cane, arondo donax, that illegals hide in.

[Wild Cobra]

I wonder what Parker thinks of this funny contrail?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/60/F-22_supersonic_090622-N-7780S-014.jpg/429px-F-22_supersonic_090622-N-7780S-014.jpg

[LnGrrrR]

Skeptics who cant fathom an evil US Govt need to wrap their head around how a small/very small criminal component within the govt and behind the top secret rubber stamp, either/or the MIC or the intelligence community can use that status to carry out a personal agenda with impunity.

Motive?

[LnGrrrR]

I wonder what Parker thinks of this funny contrail?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/60/F-22_supersonic_090622-N-7780S-014.jpg/429px-F-22_supersonic_090622-N-7780S-014.jpg

Obviously, US scientists have developed a jet that can rip holes through space/time, allowing them to effectively "warp".

Can I explain the physics? No.

Can I explain the coverup? No.

Can I still post this theory and call everyone who doesn't agree with me a mindless sheeple? Hell yes!

[Winehole23]

Motive?I only watched about 40 minutes of the vid, but "geoengineering" is the whipping boy. In the context of this thread I suppose that could be strategic or remedial in aim, or both. Weather wars and cloud seeding, right?

I gather from the vid and friends who go in for this sort of thing that "geoengineering" or the like has been going on for some time by now, but really kicked into overdrive in the 1990's.

[Winehole23]

Just when air travel, deregulated and globalized, began to fill the skies in a noticeably fuller way. Coincidence?

[Winehole23]

http://doodiepants.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/gopher-dramatic.gif

[Yonivore]

Just when air travel, deregulated and globalized, began to fill the skies in a noticeably fuller way. Coincidence?
Those nefarious government spooks timed it perfectly, wouldn't you say?

[RandomGuy]

I only watched about 40 minutes of the vid, but "geoengineering" is the whipping boy. In the context of this thread I suppose that could be strategic or remedial in aim, or both. Weather wars and cloud seeding, right?

I gather from the vid and friends who go in for this sort of thing that "geoengineering" or the like has been going on for some time by now, but really kicked into overdrive in the 1990's.

Don't mention weather wars, he might start harping on the old HAARP schtick.

(yeah, I went there)

Parker hasn't specifically opined on HAARP and its evil global control of the weather, but if he believes in chemtrails, then a belief in the evil HAARP conspiracy seems possible.

[LnGrrrR]

Hey, don't get me wrong, I wish our gov/military had the power to control weather! I just highly doubt it.

[RandomGuy]

Hey, don't get me wrong, I wish our gov/military had the power to control weather! I just highly doubt it.

It's another one of those things that is outright physically impossible, simply due to the sheer amount of power/energy it would take.

These people posit something akin to a radar array affecting weather through some electromagnetic means on a global scale.

Setting aside for a second that manipulation of the globes magnetosphere, something that is constantly fluctuating to some degree or another, would require computing power on a scale unseen to humans so far, the equations governing electrical fields always involve some squared or cubed function depending on the volume of the field involved.

It doesn't take much to have those equations get large and silly pretty quickly.

X field strength over a 8 meter cubed (two by two by two) volume (2 to the third power) is one thing.

Double that, and you get 4x4x4 volume or 64 meters^3.
Double that and you get 8x8x8 volume 512 metesr^3

The graph of y= x^3 kinda puts it into a more visual perspective:
http://hotmath.com/hotmath_help/topics/cubic-functions/cubic-functions.gif

It's just common sense on the part of anyone vaguely familiar with this stuff to see the problem inherent in shit like this.

Not that that ever stopped a true believer.

Math shmath, you know they did it!

[Winehole23]

Manipulation of the magnetosphere relates to what, please? Is this a HAARP related vein?

[LnGrrrR]

RG, you can't prove that the gov't can't do it. Therefore, ipso facto, they are. Quid pro quo. Ad infinitum. E pluribus unum.

[DarrinS]

Hey, don't get me wrong, I wish our gov/military had the power to control weather! I just highly doubt it.

I agree. We also don't have the power to control climate.

[Yonivore]

Hey, don't get me wrong, I wish our gov/military had the power to control weather! I just highly doubt it.
And, yet, we're to believe mankind controls the climate?

[Blake]

And, yet, we're to believe mankind controls the climate?

controls ≠ effects

[Yonivore]

controls ≠ effects
You mean "affects" (because "control can equal effect") and, okay, I'll change the statement:

And, yet, we're to believe mankind affects global climate.

[Blake]

You mean "affects" (because "control can equal effect") and, okay, I'll change the statement:

And, yet, we're to believe mankind affects global climate.

ah, I did mean "affects".

I do believe mankind affects global climate.

[Yonivore]

ah, I did mean "affects".

I do believe mankind affects global climate.
I know you do. I don't.

Evidence supports my position.

[Blake]

I know you do. I don't.

Evidence supports my position.

Such ironclad evidence that there are multi-page threads constantly popping up discussing just how ironclad it is.

[Yonivore]

It's the continual discrediting of evidence to the contrary on which I rely.

To date, there is not one shred of iron-clad, irrefutable empirical evidence that humans have had any affect on global climate -- and, certainly none to the degree it's been irreversibly changed over the long term.

[MannyIsGod]

i know you do. I don't.

Evidence supports my position.

lol

Humanity has affected climate in so many different ways outside of AGW that your statement is so stupid. There were CFCs that blocked the sun and lowered temps earlier this century, there's desertification of large land areas by changing the vegitation, and there is deforestation of rain forests and the climate changes that produces over the deforested areas just to name a few.

Go ahead, move the goal posts again.

[Yonivore]

lol

Humanity has affected climate in so many different ways outside of AGW that your statement is so stupid. There were CFCs that blocked the sun and lowered temps earlier this century, there's desertification of large land areas by changing the vegitation, and there is deforestation of rain forests and the climate changes that produces over the deforested areas just to name a few.

Go ahead, move the goal posts again.
It's the continual discrediting of evidence to the contrary on which I rely.

To date, there is not one shred of iron-clad, irrefutable empirical evidence that humans have had any affect on global climate -- and, certainly none to the degree it's been irreversibly changed over the long term.

You're moving the goal post.

[MannyIsGod]

Whats the long term? No one has ever argued its irreversible but you can make phantom claims and move the goalposts if you want.

Every bit of literature on AGW has a time frame of centuries and not FOREVER LIVE IN DOOM.

Why do you feel the need to make up fake positions to argue against? Do you like straw?

[MannyIsGod]

:lol

You can go back and edit the post if you want but changing the climate over large areas of land inevitably has an effect on global climate. Put that in some different colors.

[Yonivore]

Whats the long term? No one has ever argued its irreversible...
The ridiculous costs involved in "hoping" to have an impact over the next 50-100 years is the same as claiming it's irreversible. And, in fact, there are some, on your side of the argument, who do claim it's too late, we're doomed.


...but you can make phantom claims and move the goalposts if you want.

Every bit of literature on AGW has a time frame of centuries and not FOREVER LIVE IN DOOM.
Centuries are very convenient for a society with a life span of less than a 100 years.

[Yonivore]

:lol

You can go back and edit the post if you want but changing the climate over large areas of land inevitably has an effect on global climate. Put that in some different colors.
I meant to copy and re-post, I changed it back.

[MannyIsGod]

The ridiculous costs involved in "hoping" to have an impact over the next 50-100 years is the same as claiming it's irreversible. And, in fact, there are some, on your side of the argument, who do claim it's too late, we're doomed.


I'm terribly sorry your lack of vocabulary prohibits you from expressing your ideas clearly but thats not what irreversible means.



Centuries are very convenient for a society with a life span of less than a 100 years.

I'm sorry the earth doesn't work on your preferred time scale.

[Yonivore]

I'm terribly sorry your lack of vocabulary prohibits you from expressing your ideas clearly but thats not what irreversible means.
It's the same fucking thing. Particularly when none of the predictions are coming true...there's nothing to reverse.


I'm sorry the earth doesn't work on your preferred time scale.
Nor does its climate bend to the whims of man.

[MannyIsGod]

It's the same fucking thing. Particularly when none of the predictions are coming true...there's nothing to reverse.


Its not the same thing at all. Irreversible means not able to be reversed. It doesn't have anything to do with costs and it doesn't mean in the next 50-100 years. Like I said, its not my fault you're not articulate enough to express what you want but no one is arguing that climate change is irreversible. In fact, the attempts to REVERSE IT you mention pretty much refute that very fact. :lol

No wonder you plagiarize. You don't even know what irreversible means.



Nor does its climate bend to the whims of man.

Didn't you get into this mess in this thread to begin with by implying control? Why are you going back to that strawman you yourself took down? I should buy stock in hay the way you erect straw around here.

[The Reckoning]

just some terraforming experiments. move along, nothing to see here.

[RandomGuy]

Manipulation of the magnetosphere relates to what, please? Is this a HAARP related vein?

Yup. Not sure if I spelled out that specifically, but that was what I referred to.

[Winehole23]

You didn't spell it out and you didn't mention HAARP. I almost got lost there.

[Wild Cobra]

Don't mention weather wars, he might start harping on the old HAARP schtick.

(yeah, I went there)

Parker hasn't specifically opined on HAARP and its evil global control of the weather, but if he believes in chemtrails, then a belief in the evil HAARP conspiracy seems possible.
Oh please...

Don't get him started on that one. He Let him remain ignorant of it.

[Winehole23]

(Ah there's the frame. My bad, RG.)

[RandomGuy]

Oh please...

Don't get him started on that one. He Let him remain ignorant of it.

He already knows. He alluded to it once before in his original "gee look it was in official government legislation but got pulled thread".

[Winehole23]

http://www.arrl.org/news/view/haarp-facility-shuts-down, via https://disinfo.com/2013/07/u-s-governments-haarp-program-shuts-down/