China developing stealth jet?

[Cry Havoc]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/01/05/china.us.fighter.jets/index.html?hpt=T1

(CNN) -- Images believed to be of China's next generation of military air power have been buzzing around the internet, but Pentagon officials are insisting it does not mean China has matched American air capabilities.

The new Chinese stealth fighter jet, known as the J-20, isn't supposed to be operational until at least 2017, but a Chinese air force commander told Chinese TV in 2009 that flight testing would begin much sooner. Stealth jets, such as the United States' F-22, are designed to evade detection by radar and anti-aircraft defenses.

Now unknown sources have posted photos of what appears to be the plane on an airfield runway in southwestern China.

"We are aware of their plans to develop this fifth-generation fighter," Pentagon spokesman Col. Dave Lapan said Wednesday. "The photos that were released recently are presumably of some taxi testing."

At a Thursday briefing, Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Hong Lei declined to comment on reports on China testing the jet.

"China insists on a path of peaceful development," he said. "We have adopted a national defense policy that is defensive in nature and do not threaten any other countries. China has been an important force in maintaining regional and global peace."

The emergence of the photos comes as Defense Secretary Robert Gates heads to China this weekend to discuss the military relationship between the U.S. and China. And later this month, President Hu Jintao will go to Washington for a summit with President Barack Obama.

One China watcher says Beijing's failure to censor the grainy images on the web proves the photos are of the new jet and the country wants them to circulate.

"The Chinese military and the police could have swept the area around the airfield very easily, but what they've done is they've controlled this. They've allowed Chinese to only take photos with cell phones, meaning that the photos that we have are low-resolution, do not give us a great deal of detail about the aircraft and they're put on the web with a low-resolution format," said China military scholar and author Richard Fisher. "The response within China has been overwhelmingly positive and has spurred national pride to an enormous degree."

The Pentagon is taking a low-key approach to the surge in publicity about the Chinese fighter, saying their existing top-of-the-line warplane has engine problems and that their next plane is years away. But Fisher says that timeline could be sped up if the Chinese buy an engine from Russia as opposed to developing it themselves.

"It's something that is in some form of development, as a fifth-generation fighter. As I noted, the Chinese are still having difficulties with their fourth-generation fighter," Lapan said in an off-camera question session with journalists in his office.

And he said that while the new jet was not mentioned in the Pentagon report on China that was sent to Congress in August as an annual update for China's defense capabilities, the Defense Department has talked about it.

"We as a department have publicly spoken about it in the past. It is not as if we have not acknowledged that they are pursuing a fifth-generation fighter," Lapan said. "So we are aware of it. But it is not of concern that they are working on a fifth-generation fighter."

Fisher, however, says it should be a concern, citing the Chinese jet's potential ability to overtake that of America's F-22 in thrust and "supercruise" speed, which is the ability to fly supersonically without using fuel-guzzling afterburners.

"We can't say precisely what the capabilities are, but we have a good idea. Right now, we should be reviving production of the F-22 and not just reviving production, we should be developing an advance version of the F-22," said Fisher. "And sadly, even though it is a troubled program, already the F-35 needs another rework. It needs to be made competitive with this fighter."

The F-22 was scaled back in production in 2009. The production of the F-35, which is being developed and tested, could be slowed under Gates' budget-cutting initiative.

In 2009, Gates said that no nation comes close to the United States' air power, and he anticipated the Chinese having only "a handful" of fighters that challenge the U.S. advanced fleets by 2025. But Fisher cautions that this Chinese jet could cause a change in the balance of power in the Pacific.

"Since World War II, the American military has never gone into battle without the assurance of air superiority. China is a rising power, and it is determined to challenge the American position globally," said Fisher. "This fighter will allow them to do that on a military level... and from my perspective, that's simply unacceptable."

CNN's Steven Jiang in Beijing contributed to this report.

[MannyIsGod]

Why wouldn't they?

And how the fuck do we stop them? Fisher can say its unacceptable but what how do you stop them from doing it?

Does he think the rest of the world finds it acceptable we just do whatever the fuck we want?

[MiamiHeat]

china steals all our technology and copies it.

i wouldnt be shocked to find out they have detailed specs on how to build an F22 raptor.

[clambake]

how did they steal it?

[MiamiHeat]

chinese sleeper spies that live in USA for decades, computer hackers, bribing american citizens, chinese gov't supporting black market criminals to get their hands on stolen american hardware/tech.....

[MannyIsGod]

chinese sleeper spies that live in USA for decades, computer hackers, bribing american citizens, chinese gov't supporting black market criminals to get their hands on stolen american hardware/tech.....

You don't think the US does the same?

Stealth is 30 year old technology, though.

[lefty]

You don't think the US does the same?

Stealth is 30 year old technology, though.
Manny, I fucking hate your avatar

[boutons_deux]

All countries, esp allies, spy on all other countries, esp allies.

Renault just fired 3 of their EXECUTIVES for industrial espionage targeting Renault/Nissan electric car technology.

wikileaks:

"France is the evil empire (in) stealing technology, and Germany knows this," Berry Smutny, the head of German satellite company OHB Technology, was quoted as saying in the diplomatic note obtained by WikiLeaks.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/france-fears-economic-war-renault-leaks/

[4>0rings]

Good, it's lonely at the top.

[Wild Cobra]

Why is this news, and why did this thread take off?

Of course they are going to technically advance. That's a no-brainer.

[4>0rings]

China isn't as far behind us technologically as we'd like to hope. Education in this country has gone to shit and it's starting to bite us in the ass.
The education bit is true but not the cause of Chinas advancement. When you're on top, it's hard to be motivated to advance technology when no one around you is even within a 20 year span of ourselves. China is experiencing their economic boom like America did in the 50's and 60's.

I read a story about a Toyota chairman and how Toyota did not want to be the #1 car manufacturer in the world, they like to be 2nd. It keeps them motivation to better the company and not get complacent.

China went about this perfectly. America always presses other countries politically and militarily if they step past their boundries. China bought Americas debt, therefore eliminating Americas ability to bully them militarily or politicaly. They use the money from their exports of products from their cheap labor force to expand and to keep buying Americas debts, a circle with no end. When the dollar becomes junk(worth a lot less than what it is currently), America will not be able to afford to keep a full grip on world power. China will step in and take it, without ever having to fight a battle.

[Wild Cobra]

Just think "Firefly."

[ElNono]

I wouldn't be surprised if Boeing is a consultant on the project... When it comes to making money, countries be damned, right?

[Parker2112]

cousin just got back from Afghanistan and told me that, as an officer over there, he was privy to the constant push by upper-level brass to sell weapons and technology to locals...even BEFORE our guys had yet to get to use the stuff.

MIC makes money around the globe selling weapons. Its a racket. Its a way to fund their activities without having to rely on congressional funding.

The shit we see in the press is twenty years old anyway.

[Parker2112]

Why wouldn't they?

And how the fuck do we stop them? Fisher can say its unacceptable but what how do you stop them from doing it?

Does he think the rest of the world finds it acceptable we just do whatever the fuck we want?

you stop them by building better tech than they have. He is saying we should raise the ante.

Did you think he was advocating an attack? :lol

[ChumpDumper]

you stop them by building better tech than they have. He is saying we should raise the ante.What makes you think we aren't?

[frodo]

China isn't as far behind us technologically as we'd like to hope. Education in this country has gone to shit and it's starting to bite us in the ass.

not really imho. american education is still good, maybe even better than ever before, but is no longer available for triggas. american technologies have been stolen by those fuckers that's how they built up all these modern devices and shit. just come over & visit UCa Berkley and u'll find most students there being asians

[frodo]

The education bit is true but not the cause of Chinas advancement. When you're on top, it's hard to be motivated to advance technology when no one around you is even within a 20 year span of ourselves. China is experiencing their economic boom like America did in the 50's and 60's.

I read a story about a Toyota chairman and how Toyota did not want to be the #1 car manufacturer in the world, they like to be 2nd. It keeps them motivation to better the company and not get complacent.

China went about this perfectly. America always presses other countries politically and militarily if they step past their boundries. China bought Americas debt, therefore eliminating Americas ability to bully them militarily or politicaly. They use the money from their exports of products from their cheap labor force to expand and to keep buying Americas debts, a circle with no end. When the dollar becomes junk(worth a lot less than what it is currently), America will not be able to afford to keep a full grip on world power. China will step in and take it, without ever having to fight a battle.

fully agreed. cheap labor has been used as the major weapon by commies against america & the whole liberal world. the last slavery land on the earth now

[frodo]

Right, education is still decent at the collegiate level, but your average dumb american can't even get a decent high school education while foreigners mostly occupy our own universities.

obumer sends his two daughters to a private school in DC, where they receive more than decent education. private schools are prerogatives for the rich not for the majority of population imho.

[ChumpDumper]

Right, education is still decent at the collegiate level, but your average dumb american can't even get a decent high school education while foreigners mostly occupy our own universities.You missed the tipoff, tbh.

[BlairForceDejuan]

Lemme know when they roll out the Crimson Dragoons.

[frodo]

While the majority of the population gets dumber and dumber..like I said

sadly true. back in the 80s and 90s it was pretty easy to tell who was immigrant or not by his lexicon & syntax, nowadays its more than difficult to do just the same because they are equally dumb

[ChumpDumper]

smartphone in my shorts pocket, tbhNot honest at all, tbh.

Good to see your priorities are in order. What a rebel. A true patriot.

[Phenomanul]

What makes you think we aren't?

There's no way of knowing what our country's current secret projects are... I remember when pictures of the stealth bomber first surfaced, we found out the Air Force had them for at least 8 years. Or how they were using internet-like protocols since the late 70's.

If the Chinese now have stealth technology it wouldn't surprise me to find out that our Armed Forces have a fighter capable of much, much more (speculating as to what the technology might be is pointless... knowing of course (with the high-level confidence provided by recent history) that it is likely superior).

[ElNono]

G.E. Venture Will Share Jet Technology With China (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/18/business/global/18plane.html?hp)

This article was reported by David Barboza, Christopher Drew and Steve Lohr and written by Mr. Lohr.

As China strives for leadership in the world’s most advanced industries, it sees commercial jetliners — planes that may someday challenge the best from Boeing and Airbus — as a top prize.

And no Western company has been more aggressive in helping China pursue that dream than one of the aviation industry’s biggest suppliers of jet engines and airplane technology, General Electric.

This week, during the visit of the Chinese president, Hu Jintao, to the United States, G.E. plans to sign a joint-venture agreement in commercial aviation that shows the tricky risk-and-reward calculations American corporations must increasingly make in their pursuit of lucrative markets in China.

G.E., in the partnership with a state-owned Chinese company, will be sharing its most sophisticated airplane electronics, including some of the same technology used in Boeing’s new state-of-the-art 787 Dreamliner.

(Full article at the link)

[ElNono]

Not specifically military equipment, but tangential to what was discussed in this thread. Plus it references the stealth jet.

[Yonivore]

Why wouldn't they?

And how the fuck do we stop them? Fisher can say its unacceptable but what how do you stop them from doing it?

Does he think the rest of the world finds it acceptable we just do whatever the fuck we want?
What you don't do is kill your own 5th generation fighter...

We were told it would be 2020 before the Chinese had this aircraft...Obama and Gates killed the F-22 purchases. Ooops!

China's J-20 stealth plane maiden flight on film (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newsvideo/8253378/Chinas-J-20-stealth-plane-maiden-flight-on-film.html)

Heck of a job, Barry.

To be fair, it has been said that Hu was as surprised about the J-20 as Gates, who was there on an official visit when the leaked video aired. Maybe the Industrial Military Complex of China is keeping Hu out of the loop.

[4>0rings]

There's no way of knowing what our country's current secret projects are... I remember when pictures of the stealth bomber first surfaced, we found out the Air Force had them for at least 8 years. Or how they were using internet-like protocols since the late 70's.

I wouldn't doubt that 70% of UFO's sighted are military aircraft. The U.S. is so far advanced in technology it would be basically impossible for any country to compete with America as long as America is a super power.

[Winehole23]

It has been said. Such a thin reed for such a bold hypothesis. Link?




(Keep it coming with the palace whispers. Comedy gold.)

[Yonivore]

Such a thin reed for such a bold hypothesis. Link?




(Keep it coming with the palace whispers. Comedy gold.)
Not the place I originally read it (I'm still search back through their posts) but, here's one...

PLA's Stealth Surprise to Gates: Was it A Surprise to HU Too? (http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/%5Cpapers43%5Cpaper4273.html)

Here, I googled: "Jintao Hu surprised by J-20" and came up with the above and other links claiming the same. Take your pick...I honestly don't remember which of the blogs I regularly read had it and now, I'm having trouble find the post.

[ElNono]

So that GE is selling out our high tech to China is Barry's fault?

[nkdlunch]

game over

[Wild Cobra]

Not specifically military equipment, but tangential to what was discussed in this thread. Plus it references the stealth jet.
Technology is often interchangeable between the commercial and military ventures.

[Wild Cobra]

To be fair, it has been said that Hu was as surprised about the J-20 as Gates, who was there on an official visit when the leaked video aired. Maybe the Industrial Military Complex of China is keeping Hu out of the loop.
And to be fair, the J-20 is said to be their 5th generation stealth!

[Vici]

What you don't do is kill your own 5th generation fighter...

We were told it would be 2020 before the Chinese had this aircraft...Obama and Gates killed the F-22 purchases. Ooops!

China's J-20 stealth plane maiden flight on film (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newsvideo/8253378/Chinas-J-20-stealth-plane-maiden-flight-on-film.html)

Heck of a job, Barry.

To be fair, it has been said that Hu was as surprised about the J-20 as Gates, who was there on an official visit when the leaked video aired. Maybe the Industrial Military Complex of China is keeping Hu out of the loop.

Does the Chinese 30 year old technology scare you?

[ElNono]

Plus what does killing the F-22 purchases have to do with anything?

At this rate it will be 2020 by the time the Chinese actually get a plane like this in service. Don't forget that the F-22 first flight was in 1997, and it was actually in service in 2005. And this is the US, who spends way more than anybody in military tech.

We have F-22's in service right now. By 2020 we should have much better tech.

[ElNono]

If there's anything the US can still brag about is being innovators and number 1 exporters of IP. China is a manufacturing force, and so is India, but they're copycats. Extremely good, but copycats.

[Wild Cobra]

Plus what does killing the F-22 purchases have to do with anything?

At this rate it will be 2020 by the time the Chinese actually get a plane like this in service. Don't forget that the F-22 first flight was in 1997, and it was actually in service in 2005. And this is the US, who spends way more than anybody in military tech.

We have F-22's in service right now. By 2020 we should have much better tech.
I try to stay out of such debates in attempting to say who has what when it comes to things classified. We really have no way of knowing. I believe we are barely on top, but the Chinese have the labor, patience, and political focus to pretty much do as they please now. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they top us in nearly all technology by 2020. We have too many people with that lazy mentality here, and too many politicians buying votes with our tax dollars.

Again, think "Firefly (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0303461/)," just much less than 500 years in the future.

[ElNono]

I try to stay out of such debates in attempting to say who has what. We are barely on top, but the Chinese have the labor, patience, and political focus to pretty much do as they please now. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they top us in nearly all technology by 2020. We have too many people with that lazy mentality here, and too many politicians buying votes with our tax dollars.

Again, think "Firefly (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0303461/)," just much less than 500 years in the future.

I just can't see China as innovators because they aren't. They're extremely good at copying and producing though. Thus my biggest realistic fear is that some greedy company decides to sell out the tech for a lump sum and bring them up to date (ie: GE). Considering they've a huge market, I can see that happening, unfortunately.

If you couple that with GE being 'too big to fail', we're most likely to condone it too. Just truly tragic.

[Vici]

I try to stay out of such debates in attempting to say who has what when it comes to things classified. We really have no way of knowing. I believe we are barely on top, but the Chinese have the labor, patience, and political focus to pretty much do as they please now. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they top us in nearly all technology by 2020. We have too many people with that lazy mentality here, and too many politicians buying votes with our tax dollars.

Again, think "Firefly (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0303461/)," just much less than 500 years in the future.

Don't worry about us. Both my parents were officers in the Air Force and my father was in charge of many programs, some were top secret. I only know this because I once asked him about UFOs (I was very young) and he said that they absolutely are none. What you see up there that defies logic are 9/10 prototype aircraft. He told me that anything we may have though we heard of, we are 2-3 generation ahead in blueprints. Anytime we see something being manufactured, we are about 5 generations ahead in blue prints. The technology the Chinese claim to have is still very very very dated. We are talking what we had in the 80s.

We are fine and we will be for a very long time. Whenever in doubt remind yourself that we spend more on our military and technology than the world combined.

[Vici]

I just can't see China as innovators because they aren't. They're extremely good at copying and producing though. Thus my biggest realistic fear is that some greedy company decides to sell out the tech for a lump sum and bring them up to date (ie: GE). Considering they've a huge market, I can see that happening, unfortunately.

If you couple that with GE being 'too big to fail', we're most likely to condone it too. Just truly tragic.

You are right about the U.S. being innovators. Name the last great product the Chinese invented.

They will always excel in having a population that runs like computers but when it comes to creativity the western world still can not be rivaled. As bad our school systems are, we are still really f*cking smart at our smartest. Why do you think their students come over here? Why do you think their best doctors come over here (it's not the money trust me)?

[Yonivore]

So that GE is selling out our high tech to China is Barry's fault?
No, that's actually Clinton's fault.

[Wild Cobra]

Don't worry about us. Both my parents were officers in the Air Force and my father was in charge of many programs, some were top secret. I only know this because I once asked him about UFOs (I was very young) and he said that they absolutely are none. What you see up there that defies logic are 9/10 prototype aircraft. He told me that anything we may have though we heard of, we are 2-3 generation ahead in blueprints. Anytime we see something being manufactured, we are about 5 generations ahead in blue prints. The technology the Chinese claim to have is still very very very dated. We are talking what we had in the 80s.

We are fine and we will be for a very long time. Whenever in doubt remind yourself that we spend more on our military and technology than the world combined.
I would disagree with your concept of China. They were definitely lacking in the past when it comes to technological creativity, but I would never say that about them today.

[clambake]

they don't need them. they launch sub missiles off the coast of cali. remember yoni?

[Vici]

I would disagree with your concept of China. They were definitely lacking in the past when it comes to technological creativity, but I would never say that about them today.

What have they done to make you think otherwise?

[Vici]

.

[byrontx]

First flying wing stealth plane, circa 1944 or thereabouts.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,529548,00.html

[angrydude]

Is china developing a stealth jet? Who. Cares.

[Winehole23]

Not the place I originally read it (I'm still search back through their posts) but, here's one...

PLA's Stealth Surprise to Gates: Was it A Surprise to HU Too? (http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/%5Cpapers43%5Cpaper4273.html)

Here, I googled: "Jintao Hu surprised by J-20" and came up with the above and other links claiming the same. Take your pick...I honestly don't remember which of the blogs I regularly read had it and now, I'm having trouble find the post.Thanks for looking, you didn't have to. Thanks for the link, too. :tu

[Winehole23]

(If it had occurred to me that you'd oblige my request for info, I guess I'd not have been such a jerk about it. My bad, Yoni.)

[LnGrrrR]

Woot. Let China sink millions into a fighter. Then maybe other countries will ask them for help instead of us. :lol

Honestly, the F22 is an amazing piece of equipment. If China builds something comparable, it just means that, if we theoretically went to war, we wouldn't necessarily have the airpower advantage. (Not sure on number of planes each country owns.) But if China and the US go to war, it would wreck the whole world. I don't think that would ever happen, and I don't think the rest of the world would want to see that either.

[LnGrrrR]

What you don't do is kill your own 5th generation fighter...

We were told it would be 2020 before the Chinese had this aircraft...Obama and Gates killed the F-22 purchases. Ooops!

China's J-20 stealth plane maiden flight on film (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newsvideo/8253378/Chinas-J-20-stealth-plane-maiden-flight-on-film.html)

Heck of a job, Barry.

To be fair, it has been said that Hu was as surprised about the J-20 as Gates, who was there on an official visit when the leaked video aired. Maybe the Industrial Military Complex of China is keeping Hu out of the loop.

Well, we still have Raptors... just less of them. In all fairness, I can see why they cut the budget for them, as Raptors cost alot of money. That money could go towards warfighting efforts that effect terrorism much more than the Raptors ever could.

(Also, more Raptors means more expensive pilots to train, pay compensation, etc etc)

[Yonivore]

Thanks for looking, you didn't have to. Thanks for the link, too. :tu
Glad to oblige.

[boutons_deux]

Cut $300B/year from Defense budget.

The Defense budget corruption, waste, fraud, corporate socialism transferring taxpayer wealth to the corps and debt to taxpayers is weakening America, not strengthening it.

[Wild Cobra]

First flying wing stealth plane, circa 1944 or thereabouts.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,529548,00.html
Called the Horten 229, the radical "flying wing" fighter-bomber looked and acted a lot like the U.S. Air Force's current B-2 — right down to the "stealth" radar-evading characteristics.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,529548,00.html#ixzz1BOJDIru7

Well, they are a bit off there. The shape alone would be great against that circa RADAR, but modern stealth go beyond just the shape. It only has one stealth characteristic. Modern craft have several.

[Wild Cobra]

Well, we still have Raptors... just less of them. In all fairness, I can see why they cut the budget for them, as Raptors cost alot of money. That money could go towards warfighting efforts that effect terrorism much more than the Raptors ever could.

(Also, more Raptors means more expensive pilots to train, pay compensation, etc etc)
I wish I went Aircraft maintenance (parts changer) rather than communications maintenance (parts changer) at times. It does pay better.

[ElNono]

What have they done to make you think otherwise?

<crickets>

[boutons_deux]

There is show on History Channel? about some US mega-MIC corp building a full-sized model of the Nazi stealth plane, 65+ years old, to test it on their radar range for stealthiness. A project that probably cost a couple $M of taxpayer money, "just for fun".

[Yonivore]

<crickets>
So, when do we start using this advanced technology?

UFO's have been around for decades and we've been in some pretty tough scrapes over those same years. If the U.S. has that shit, there have been plenty of opportunities to drag it out of The Skunkworks and put our enemies in their place.

The facts are this:

China has abandoned its "hide and bide" strategy for weapons development. Where they used to hide their advancements and bide their time until it was needed, they now "leak" proof of what they have. I don't think that's an accident.

Also, China has let it be know they've developed a carrier killing missile (http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/08/06/chinese-carrier-killer-missile-game-changer-expert-says/).

I do believe China thinks they've turned a corner in their arms race with the U.S.

[ElNono]

So, when do we start using this advanced technology?

UFO's have been around for decades and we've been in some pretty tough scrapes over those same years. If the U.S. has that shit, there have been plenty of opportunities to drag it out of The Skunkworks and put our enemies in their place.


What does what we have has to do with China being innovators?
The Raptors are living proof of what we have and what nobody else has.
We also pioneered the unmanned drones, which are actually in operation right now. Things like the ADS millimeter-wave transmitter...

The advanced tech is out there. You're just taking it for granted.



The facts are this:

China has abandoned its "hide and bide" strategy for weapons development. Where they used to hide their advancements and bide their time until it was needed, they now "leak" proof of what they have. I don't think that's an accident.

Also, China has let it be know they've developed a carrier killing missile (http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/08/06/chinese-carrier-killer-missile-game-changer-expert-says/).

I do believe China thinks they've turned a corner in their arms race with the U.S.

China has shown that it understands their new role as a world economic power. As such, they need to show off they're also investing in the military and weapons. The reality also shows they're still playing catchup, and when you end up following the money, you see that they spend a whole lot less than the US in actually trying to be ahead of the game.
The fact that they're still paying up to acquire tech should be a sign of where they're really standing at, as far as investing in military R&D.

[RandomGuy]

cousin just got back from Afghanistan and told me that, as an officer over there, he was privy to the constant push by upper-level brass to sell weapons and technology to locals...even BEFORE our guys had yet to get to use the stuff.

MIC makes money around the globe selling weapons. Its a racket. Its a way to fund their activities without having to rely on congressional funding.

The shit we see in the press is twenty years old anyway.

"weapons and technology" = non-rusting assault rifles, and *gasp* working radios.

When you have left-over crap weapons captured from the Soviet Union in the 1980's, tanks literally held together with bailing wire and truck parts, then "weapons and technology" means something vastly different.

Unless of course you mean that they are selling advanced aerospace technology to iron-age tribal groups?

'splain what you meant here.

[RandomGuy]

As for the Chinese "stealth" fighter, it is a "first-step" prototype, from all the analysis I have read.

A bit ahead of what was generally attributed to the Chinese, but hardly a game-changer. No where near where the US is in either stealth or advanced avionics.

Their anti-ship missle on the other hand deserves far more worry. That thing is pretty much designed to evade Aegis systems and take out our aircraft carriers.

The idea that large ships such as our super carriers would eventually become obsolete has been a meme that has been floating around defense circles for some time.

That oft-repeated idea may be finally borne out.

[Vici]

So, when do we start using this advanced technology?

UFO's have been around for decades and we've been in some pretty tough scrapes over those same years. If the U.S. has that shit, there have been plenty of opportunities to drag it out of The Skunkworks and put our enemies in their place.



F-117A,
U2 spy plane,
B2,
F-16,
F-15,
F-22,
Yf-23,
etc.

We have seen these planes in wars and they have allowed us to completely dominate the air.

[hater]

BS marketing from China. If it was anything close to production, no news would be coming out.

[boutons_deux]

This saber-rattling appears as a Chinese guy comes to US to negotiate financial stuff.

Of course, the paranoia-spewing right-wingers grab ontuit to suck more wealth out of taxpayers' pockets.

[Blake]

China developing stealth chemtrails?

http://cache1.asset-cache.net/xc/200562420-001.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=5047FA587DE1CADE8BBC73CAD31AA4765CEF5C8FD79791D1 54BEE8010AB8A844B5AF9B7D601FECA8

I'm convinced.

[phxspurfan]

Ok now I'm confused. If you're such a conservative republican as all of your posts imply, how can you hate on the government's decision to save countless hundreds of millions by going with the F35 instead of the F22? Do you even know the difference? Did you even know the F35 existed?

You can't argue about debt (and blame the current White House for poor spending habits) while arguing that we should be spending hundreds of millions on a jet that is replaceable by an equivalent jet at a fraction of that cost.


What you don't do is kill your own 5th generation fighter...

We were told it would be 2020 before the Chinese had this aircraft...Obama and Gates killed the F-22 purchases. Ooops!

China's J-20 stealth plane maiden flight on film (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newsvideo/8253378/Chinas-J-20-stealth-plane-maiden-flight-on-film.html)

Heck of a job, Barry.

To be fair, it has been said that Hu was as surprised about the J-20 as Gates, who was there on an official visit when the leaked video aired. Maybe the Industrial Military Complex of China is keeping Hu out of the loop.

[phxspurfan]

Well, we still have Raptors... just less of them. In all fairness, I can see why they cut the budget for them, as Raptors cost alot of money. That money could go towards warfighting efforts that effect terrorism much more than the Raptors ever could.

(Also, more Raptors means more expensive pilots to train, pay compensation, etc etc)

This point is also true if you ask the non-USAF military. I just finished reading a book by an Army Captain saying the Army would do better with the equivalent investment in $150 handguns than have the latest jet. But I guess $150 handguns don't make for cool recruiting commercials.

[LnGrrrR]

I wish I went Aircraft maintenance (parts changer) rather than communications maintenance (parts changer) at times. It does pay better.

What'd you do in comm maintenance? Just curious. Feel free to disregard/PM if you don't want to share publicly.

[LnGrrrR]

This point is also true if you ask the non-USAF military. I just finished reading a book by an Army Captain saying the Army would do better with the equivalent investment in $150 handguns than have the latest jet. But I guess $150 handguns don't make for cool recruiting commercials.

Exactly my point. Of course, a handgun wouldn't do much in a "classic warfare" scenario. But we've spent so much on military, that a country would have to be near batshit-insane (see N. Korea) to threaten our military using conventional methods.

[phxspurfan]

Oh btw this was discussed on the Kudlow Report last week, for any CNBC viewers. His immediate response was the same as has been mentioned here: Why did we cut the F-22 (without mentioning its replacement).

[Fpoonsie]

Meh. I already saw this movie.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:pjVarkQ5yvxzXM:http://www.impawards.com/2002/posters/i_spy_ver2.jpg&t=1

[LnGrrrR]

Oh btw this was discussed on the Kudlow Report last week, for any CNBC viewers. His immediate response was the same as has been mentioned here: Why did we cut the F-22 (without mentioning its replacement).

We didn't really cut the F-22. We just cut down on the amount that were going to be produced. And the reasons already listed are why... because from a "terrorist-fighting" standpoint, F-22s are not very cost-effective. From an "air superiority" standpoint, they're unmatched.

Gates wants the AF to put more money into UAVs/drones.

[Wild Cobra]

What'd you do in comm maintenance? Just curious. Feel free to disregard/PM if you don't want to share publicly.

Actually, I don't do that any longer. It became so modern that red light on circuit board means replace. What was a $50k job in 1980, became a $40k job in 1992, when I got out. Now the equipment I work on uses basic old communications protocols like RS-485, but my job is primarily mechanical anyway. I simply believe I would have a better job if I worked on aircraft than what I do now. Don't get me wrong, my job is rather satisfying. It's just it doesn't require my level of expertise, and I don't have the background for a technical job that is also low risk of layoff. Aircraft mechanical or avionics might have been the ticket for me. Oh well, have to live with past choices.

[LnGrrrR]

Actually, I don't do that any longer. It became so modern that red light on circuit board means replace. What was a $50k job in 1980, became a $40k job in 1992, when I got out. Now the equipment I work on uses basic old communications protocols like RS-485, but my job is primarily mechanical anyway. I simply believe I would have a better job if I worked on aircraft than what I do now. Don't get me wrong, my job is rather satisfying. It's just it doesn't require my level of expertise, and I don't have the background for a technical job that is also low risk of layoff. Aircraft mechanical or avionics might have been the ticket for me. Oh well, have to live with past choices.

Cool, thanks for the info. Tech goes so fast, hard to keep up sometimes.

[Wild Cobra]

Cool, thanks for the info. Tech goes so fast, hard to keep up sometimes.
Automation manufacturing or maintenance is one of the more stable and well paying avenues I think. Repairing equipment that make other products seems to be a good niche. Like anything, just have to keep up with the changes. What's funny, is most stuff called "high tech" is actually decades old technology just made to work together in a unique way.

[4>0rings]

A couple of years ago many people saw over stephenville and other parts of texas a giant aircraft that many at the time were calling some sort of alien ship..it made major headlines around here in I believe 2008. The thing was over a MILE long, half as wide and took off with incredible acceleration. Now I'm thinking that this thing was some sort of flying aircraft carrier, which would make sense. While the chinese are building a navy, why not take the battle to the air?
There was more than one sighting over Stephenville of that object. My brother lived there when he was going to school in Stephenville. He has seen many things, along with cattle mutilation cases that couldn't be explained, similar to what has been reported all over the US.

[4>0rings]

yeah many people were reporting seeing it, some of which notable members of society such as police officers etc. I didn't witness it myself but one of my co-workers, an old retired army vet, saw it over mansfield. he hadn't even checked the news yet that morning and didn't know anything about the hype going around, so i filled him in on what it was he saw.
I ment to say that a big UFO sighting happened more than once over Stephenville.

[byrontx]

Remember when we were bombing the Serbs and they used the interference in their cell towers to triangulate on our stealth bombers? Radar stealth technology is only effective on forces reliant on radar for detection. I suspect that our forces have other, better, options. An object moving through earth's magnetic field might be detected by other means and super optics on satellites with threat assesment software may be another option. In other words, China's stealth fighter may be effective against the French, for example (the French would have problems knowing when to surrender), but ineffective against the technologies we could deploy. Since China is most likely lacking the advanced detection technologies the U. S. has then our stealth fighters would still have a tactical advantage. Just supposing-not that I am a military expert of any kind.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Actually, I don't do that any longer. It became so modern that red light on circuit board means replace. What was a $50k job in 1980, became a $40k job in 1992, when I got out. Now the equipment I work on uses basic old communications protocols like RS-485, but my job is primarily mechanical anyway. I simply believe I would have a better job if I worked on aircraft than what I do now. Don't get me wrong, my job is rather satisfying. It's just it doesn't require my level of expertise, and I don't have the background for a technical job that is also low risk of layoff. Aircraft mechanical or avionics might have been the ticket for me. Oh well, have to live with past choices.

it depends man whether ur working in the airforce looking after its planes or working for the big airline carriers, cause it seems like if u work in the airforce the job is mainly protected while for airline that crap is usually outsource if they can find cheaper labor somewhere else...

my friend did aerospace engineering and i just shook my head when i heard about it since job placements are hand to get into and so limited also. While this other girl i knew who switch midway for her engineering course i think she opted for mechanical or someshit now works on the docks and oil refineries pulling in the money....

and engineering degree allows you so many pathways depending on what field you wanna get into...

[TDMVPDPOY]

In other words, China's stealth fighter may be effective against the French, for example (the French would have problems knowing when to surrender), but ineffective against the technologies we could deploy. Since China is most likely lacking the advanced detection technologies the U. S. has then our stealth fighters would still have a tactical advantage. Just supposing-not that I am a military expert of any kind.

cmon dude ur not serious by putting up the french in this discussion, nobody takes them serious anyway...

[TDMVPDPOY]

A couple of years ago many people saw over stephenville and other parts of texas a giant aircraft that many at the time were calling some sort of alien ship..it made major headlines around here in I believe 2008. The thing was over a MILE long, half as wide and took off with incredible acceleration. Now I'm thinking that this thing was some sort of flying aircraft carrier, which would make sense. While the chinese are building a navy, why not take the battle to the air?

if that giant aircraft carrier isnt stealth or orbiting in space then all it is a sitting duck in the sky gettin shot down by jets....even if its able to orbit out in space will be the same, didnt you read 2 years ago china shot out its orbiting satellites with lasers

[Winehole23]

I ment to say that a big UFO sighting happened more than once over Stephenville.http://www.hidden-truth.org/images/best_ufo_cases/aurora_cemetary.jpg

http://www.ufo-blog.com/images/feb_08/texas_flap/texas_ufo_sketch_1897.jpg

[Winehole23]

http://www.ufocasebook.com/haydonarticle.jpg

[Wild Cobra]

Actually, I don't do that any longer. It became so modern that red light on circuit board means replace. What was a $50k job in 1980, became a $40k job in 1992, when I got out.
Correction...

As I thought about it, I remembered it was a $2,400/month job in '92, resulting in less than a $30k job.

A monkey could do the work.

Alarm goes off... Find red light... Replace the card that has the red light!

Didn't use to be that simple.

[Wild Cobra]

Remember when we were bombing the Serbs and they used the interference in their cell towers to triangulate on our stealth bombers? Radar stealth technology is only effective on forces reliant on radar for detection. I suspect that our forces have other, better, options. An object moving through earth's magnetic field might be detected by other means and super optics on satellites with threat assesment software may be another option. In other words, China's stealth fighter may be effective against the French, for example (the French would have problems knowing when to surrender), but ineffective against the technologies we could deploy. Since China is most likely lacking the advanced detection technologies the U. S. has then our stealth fighters would still have a tactical advantage. Just supposing-not that I am a military expert of any kind.
I was thinking this was a conscience release to warn the North Koreans. No matter how far behind us they light be, the NK wouldn't have a chance.

[Wild Cobra]

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x262/Wild_Cobra/Misc/auroracemetery.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurora,_Texas_UFO_incident)

Winwhole...

I would like to believe UFO's are extra-terrestrial, but those times were something else. This Haydon guy might have just been making up the news. Samuel Clemens was said to be a good story teller in those times also.

Because I love this episode, I give you this:

7YERSCWLjA0

[Winehole23]

It was a knock on post. I supplied a link to another UFO sighting in the Stephenville area. It may not even have been the one 4>Rings meant.

[Winehole23]

So the globalist threat is some big joke to you, but you believe in ALIENS??? :lmaoI do not.

Jump to conclusions much?

[Winehole23]

(It can get pretty slow around here in the middle of the night.)

[ElNono]

http://www.veteranstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/x-files.jpg