U.S. teenager tortured in Kuwait and barred re-entry into the U.S.

[Winehole23]

U.S. teenager tortured in Kuwait and barred re-entry into the U.S.

By Glenn Greenwald (http://www.salon.com/author/glenn_greenwald/index.html)


Gulet Mohamed is an 18-year-old American citizen whose family is Somalian. His parents moved with him to the U.S. when he was 2 or 3 years old, and he has lived in the U.S. ever since. In March, 2009, he went to study Arabic and Islam in Yemen (in Sana'a, the nation's capital), and, after several weeks, left (at his mother's urging) and went to visit his mother's family in Somalia, staying with his uncle there for several months. Roughly one year ago, he left Somalia and traveled to Kuwait to stay with other family members who live there. Like many teenagers who reach early adulthood, he was motivated in his travels by a desire to see the world, to study, and to get to know his family's ancestral homeland and his faraway relatives.


At all times, Mohamed traveled on an American passport and had valid visas for all the countries he visited. He has never been arrested nor -- until two weeks ago -- was he ever involved with law enforcement in any way, including the entire time he lived in the U.S.


Approximately two weeks ago (on December 20), Mohamed went to the airport in Kuwait to have his visa renewed, as he had done every three months without incident for the last year. This time, however, he was told by the visa officer that his name had been marked in the computer, and after waiting five hours, he was taken into a room and interrogated by officials who refused to identify themselves. They then handcuffed and blindfolded him and drove him to some other locale. That was the start of a two-week-long, still ongoing nightmare during which he was imprisoned for a week in an unknown location by unknown captors, relentlessly interrogated, and severely beaten and threatened with even worse forms of torture.


Mohamed's story was first reported this morning by Mark Mazzetti in The New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/06/world/middleeast/06detain.html?_r=1&hp), who spoke with Mohamed by telephone, where he is currently being held in a deportation center in Kuwait. I also spoke with Mohamed this morning, and my 50-minute conversation with him was recorded and can be heard on the recorder below. Mazzetti did a good job of describing Mohamed's version of events. He writes that during his 90-minute conversation, "Mr. Mohamed was agitated as he recounted his captivity, tripping over his words and breaking into tears."
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_MnYI3_FRbbQ/TSZInCTHTyI/AAAAAAAAC3E/7LE5pO9d7lU/s200/mohamed.png (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_MnYI3_FRbbQ/TSZInCTHTyI/AAAAAAAAC3E/7LE5pO9d7lU/s1600/mohamed.png)That was very much my experience as well. It may be difficult at times to understand all of what Mohamed recounts because he is emotionally distraught in the extreme, but it's nonetheless very worth listening to what he has to say, at the very least to portions of it. Mohamed says he was repeatedly beaten with a stick on the bottom of his feet and his palms, hit in the face, and hung from the ceiling. He also says his captors threatened him with both the arrest of his mother and electric shock, and told him that he should forget his family.


He still does not know why he was detained and beaten, nor does he know what is happening to him now. Indeed, although Mazzetti writes that he was detained and beaten by Kuwait captors, Mohamed actually has no idea who was responsible, and told me that at least some of the people interrogating him spoke English. He has been told that he will be deported back to the U.S., but is now on a no-fly list and has no idea when he will be released. American officials told Mazzetti that "Mr. Mohamed is on a no-fly list and, for now at least, cannot return to the United States." He's been charged with no crime and presented with no evidence of any wrongdoing.


This event is significant for multiple reasons, many of them obvious. The questions Mohamed was repeatedly asked -- including two days ago by American embassy officials and FBI agents who visited him in the detention facility -- focused on whether he knew Anwar al-Awlaki, the American cleric in Yemen who has become an obsession of the Obama administration, as well as why he went to Yemen and Somalia. Kuwait is little more than a subservient American protectorate, and the idea that they would do this to an American citizen without the American government's knowledge, if not its assent and participation, is implausible in the extreme. That much of the information they sought from Mohamed is of particular interest to the U.S. Government only bolsters that likelihood.


Independent of all that, the U.S. Government has an obligation to protect its own citizens. Mohamed described to me how both embassy officials and the FBI expressed zero interest in the torture to which he had been subjected during his detention. The U.S. Government has said nothing about this matter, and refused to comment about Mohamed's treatment to The New York Times.



All of this underscores the rapidly expanding powers the U.S. Government and law enforcement agents within the country are seizing without a shred of due process. For the government to put an American citizen on the no-fly list while he's traveling outside the U.S. is tantamount to barring him from entering his own country -- a draconian punishment, involuntary exile, meted out without any due process. In June, the ACLU filed a lawsuit on behalf of several citizens and legal residents (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/29/AR2010062904339.html) who -- like Gulet Mohammed -- have been literally stranded abroad and barred from returning with no hearing, simply by being placed secretly on the no-fly list. Add to that the growing seizures of the laptops and other electronic equipment of American citizens re-entering the country without any warrants (http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/11/09/manning) -- or even yesterday's ruling from the California Supreme Court (http://redtape.msnbc.com/2011/01/court-cops-can-search-cell-phone-without-warrant.html) that police officers can search and seize someone's cell phone without a warrant when arresting them -- and (even leaving aside the administration's ongoing due-process-free prison camps and assassination programs) these are pure police state tactics.


The Bush-era torture scandal was as much about its use of torture-administering allies as it was the torture regime which the U.S. itself created. In the face of these credible allegations -- just listen to this American teenager talk and assess how credible he is -- the Obama administration, at the very least, has the obligation to inform the public about whether this is true, what its role was, if any, and what it's doing to investigate and protest this abuse of its own citizen.


My discussion with Mohamed can be heard by clicking PLAY on the recorder below. I'm posting it in its entirety without edits, except for the last minute or so where we discussed how we came to speak, information I'm withholding at his request:


UPDATE: Mohamed's family has now secured a lawyer for him, Gadeir Abbas of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, who has written a letter to the DOJ (http://utdocuments.blogspot.com/2011/01/letter-to-doj-from-gulet-mohameds.html) raising all the right questions and demanding all the right assistance. Nobody should have to ask the government to provide this form of assistance to an American citizen under these circumstances.



http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/01/03/fran_townsend_terrorism/index.html

[4>0rings]

Looks like a terrorist, he can stay over there.

[Winehole23]

(cool story)

[Winehole23]

Putting US travelers on the no-fly list would certainly seem to be an efficacious way to detain them abroad without any due process at all.

Before 9/11, it would've been politically unthinkable to do so, much less attempt to justify it, but now we are roundly urged by the powers that be and a significant plurality of neighbors, to take such inconveniences for granted.

[Winehole23]

The fact that the dude is a US citizen don't hardly mean shit, apparently.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Well he is a mooslim... Why can't just get rid of him because of his religion?

[LnGrrrR]

I guess the last two administrations are trying to see how many civil liberty atrocities they can get away with.

Which side to pick in this battle should be an obvious no-brainer, barring any other info that comes out.

[boutons_deux]

Muslim AND black. We need to bring back no-fault lynching.

[Wild Cobra]

The fact that the dude is a US citizen don't hardly mean shit, apparently.
No, it means something. However, he did travel to places US citizens are warned not to go to. Primarily for other nations practices. I feel for the guy, but damn... anyone traveling should think of the risks.

[Wild Cobra]

I guess the last two administrations are trying to see how many civil liberty atrocities they can get away with.

Which side to pick in this battle should be an obvious no-brainer, barring any other info that comes out.
Is it the US causing this? Are we the only ones that generate a "no-fly list?" What did I miss in the story?

[desflood]

I guess the last two administrations are trying to see how many civil liberty atrocities they can get away with.
It's not going to get better in the future. Be ready.

[MannyIsGod]

No, it means something. However, he did travel to places US citizens are warned not to go to. Primarily for other nations practices. I feel for the guy, but damn... anyone traveling should think of the risks.

I can go wherever the fuck I want if I follow procedure as he did. The government doesn't get to arbitrarily stop shit.

Please don't call others authoritarian ever.

[MannyIsGod]

Is it the US causing this? Are we the only ones that generate a "no-fly list?" What did I miss in the story?

They're certainly not helping him as they should be. Their complete inaction in itself is fucking horrible.

[baseline bum]

LOL @ Libertarian WC blaming the victim again.

[boutons_deux]

With WC, the govt or institution is always right, the individual is always screwed, mirroring the 5 activist/extremist right-wing SCOTUS assholes.

[boutons_deux]

Anyway, this guy is NOT a Real American.

He's a naturalized citizen and black and Muslim. To Euro-American "Christians", he's ain't one of them.

/blue

[Wild Cobra]

LOL @ Libertarian WC blaming the victim again.
I'm only saying he used poor judgment at going to a place deemed by the State Department as it is for travel.

Something you obviously don't realize. Conservatives take responsibility for their actions. That is one primary thing that separates them from liberals. I consider myself a conservative libertarian.

[Wild Cobra]

With WC, the govt or institution is always right, the individual is always screwed, mirroring the 5 activist/extremist right-wing SCOTUS assholes.
You are so stupid, you don't even understand how fucking wrong you are.

[boutons_deux]

The State Dept warnings are to warn of danger to US citizens in those countries...

NOT

.. to warn US citizens that that will be barred BY THE US GOVT from re-entering the USA.

As always for WC, the corporations/institutions are always right, and the citizens better watch the fuck out since they The People are secondary to the corporations/institutions.

[baseline bum]

I'm only saying he used poor judgment at going to a place deemed by the State Department as it is for travel.

Something you obviously don't realize. Conservatives take responsibility for their actions. That is one primary thing that separates them from liberals. I consider myself a conservative libertarian.

Everyone else here considers you a republican authoritarian.

[boutons_deux]

"Conservatives take responsibility for their actions."

Clinton caused 9/11, not Repugs, who were helpless to stop it.

Magic Negro cratered the economy, not Repugs, whose wars and tax cuts for the super-wealthy and corps had NOTHING to do with the US debt.

The innocent Repugs believed WMD because EVERYBODY JUST KNEW WERE THERE, and Repugs accepted full responsibly for starting a bogus war-for-oil on false pretenses.

WC, and all conservatives, are a faultless super-stars ... between their own ears.

[LnGrrrR]

No, it means something. However, he did travel to places US citizens are warned not to go to. Primarily for other nations practices. I feel for the guy, but damn... anyone traveling should think of the risks.

So, because the US puts a country "off-limits", a US citizen who goes to these countries should accept the risk of never being allowed back in his home country.

Does that sound Constitutional to you?

[LnGrrrR]

I'm only saying he used poor judgment at going to a place deemed by the State Department as it is for travel.

Something you obviously don't realize. Conservatives take responsibility for their actions. That is one primary thing that separates them from liberals. I consider myself a conservative libertarian.

So, if the government warns citizens from saying negative things about the government, would you consider it "ok" if those mean people who made fun of the government were locked up?

After all, they knew the risks.

[Wild Cobra]

The State Dept warnings are to warn of danger to US citizens in those countries...

NOT

.. to warn US citizens that that will be barred BY THE US GOVT from re-entering the USA.

As always for WC, the corporations/institutions are always right, and the citizens better watch the fuck out since they The People are secondary to the corporations/institutions.
I never said the USA would bar him from reentering. Just how stupid are you anyway?

Where does anything say the USA is barring him from reentry?

[Wild Cobra]

Everyone else here considers you a republican authoritarian.
Those who do are really dumb.

[Wild Cobra]

So, because the US puts a country "off-limits", a US citizen who goes to these countries should accept the risk of never being allowed back in his home country.

Does that sound Constitutional to you?

Where does anything say the USA is barring him from reentry? How reliable is such a source if it makes such a claim?

[ElNono]

I never said the USA would bar him from reentering. Just how stupid are you anyway?

Where does anything say the USA is barring him from reentry?

Really? You're not this dumb, are you?

[Wild Cobra]

Really? You're not this dumb, are you?
You can't show me, can you.

[ElNono]

American officials told Mazzetti that "Mr. Mohamed is on a no-fly list and, for now at least, cannot return to the United States.

As far as I know, the US is the only country with no-fly lists for flights going into the US. Do you know otherwise?

[Wild Cobra]

As far as I know, the US is the only country with no-fly lists for flights going into the US. Do you know otherwise?

I get it.

You take it as fact that a reported says an unnamed official (from where?) says he cannot return?

Does the No Fly list include ships?

I don't see why it is he cannot return. Please explain your logic, and why you believe everything unnamed sources tell liberal publications.

[ElNono]

I get it.

You take it as fact that a reported says an unnamed official (from where?) says he cannot return?

Does the No Fly list include ships?

I don't see why it is he cannot return. Please explain your logic, and why you believe everything unnamed sources tell liberal publications.

If American officials are telling him that he cannot return to the US, what else you need to know?

Please prove that American officials didn't tell him that, as reported. You're the one questioning the report. You're the one with the burden of proof.

[baseline bum]

As far as I know, the US is the only country with no-fly lists for flights going into the US. Do you know otherwise?

Dumbass, he could swim across. Typical libtard.

[ElNono]

Dumbass, he could swim across. Typical libtard.

:lol

[baseline bum]

ElNono, have you never heard of quantum teleportation? Nothing's stopping this guy if he had any ingenuity.

[baseline bum]

The Cubans float over in rafts all the time.

[ElNono]

That some raft to navigate all the way from Kuwait...

[baseline bum]

That some raft to navigate all the way from Kuwait...

It's this defeatist attitude libtards typically have. The Persian Gulf is right there for him.

[MiamiHeat]

haven't Americans been forbidden to travel to Cuba for a long time now?

[scott]

It's this defeatist attitude libtards typically have. The Persian Gulf is right there for him.

This stupid libtard could get a job for once and work on an oil tanker coming to the US. There are departures almost daily! He's probably some "career student" who doesn't want to work and just wants a freeride like most of the demoncrats.

[ElNono]

Lazy teenager. Probably a libtard. Nothing to see here.

[Wild Cobra]

If American officials are telling him that he cannot return to the US, what else you need to know?
So... It's true because it was reported. Really now, don't let me think you are that ignorant. One unnamed source says that. Anyone backing that accusation up?

Please prove that American officials didn't tell him that, as reported. You're the one questioning the report. You're the one with the burden of proof.

LOL... Yea right. Wanting me to prove a negative. Is that the best you have.

Still, technically, I am right. The no fly list that might prevent him from flying here does not include passenger ships, nor does it prevent him from flying to a friendlier country.

Why are you being a sheeple and having the wool pulled over your eyes. I consider you smarter than that, but I may change my mind.

[Winehole23]

(sheeple alert)

[ElNono]

So... It's true because it was reported. Really now, don't let me think you are that ignorant. One unnamed source says that. Anyone backing that accusation up?

So it's false because you say so?
Glenn Greenwald at Salon.com wrote the story, including the allegations. He spoke with the accused too, including other reporterts. What unnamed source are you talking about?
Did you even read the articles? :lol


LOL... Yea right. Wanting me to prove a negative. Is that the best you have.

What negative? You're arguing that he was not barred from re-entry and he's not in a no-fly list, as opposed to what was reported in MULTIPLE news outlets (NY Times reported the same after talking to the accused and trying to contact the DOJ).
So let's see you prove what you allege.


Still, technically, I am right. The no fly list that might prevent him from flying here does not include passenger ships, nor does it prevent him from flying to a friendlier country.

Strawman. He's an American and he has every right to travel to his own country.

lol friendlier country


Why are you being a sheeple and having the wool pulled over your eyes. I consider you smarter than that, but I may change my mind.

Feel free to attack me instead of actually substantiating the bullshit you post... :rolleyes

[Wild Cobra]

Bottom line El-don't-know...

I said he was not barred from traveling to the USA. You disagreed. Sure, maybe he's barred by plane, but not my other means. He can go to Canada, and take a bus if necessary.

Stop arguing around that simple fact. Makes you look like a loser.

[ElNono]

Bottom line El-don't-know...

I said he was not barred from traveling to the USA. You disagreed.


American officials told the guy he cannot return to the US.
That's what the article says. You disagreed with the article, not me. Yet you won't backup your shit when pressed on it.



Sure, maybe he's barred by plane, but not my other means. He can go to Canada, and take a bus if necessary.

Not really. If Kuwait is enforcing the US no-fly list, then he cannot fly period.
Furthermore, you just simply don't know if the no-fly list is the only thing that's preventing him from coming back. Everybody passes immigration when coming into the country, no matter the means.


Stop arguing around that simple fact. Makes you look like a loser.

lol, like anybody cares what you think about other posters.
It's real easy, you stop talking out of your ass, and I stop arguing...

[ElNono]

This is an American citizen that wants to go back home. The US Embassy over there should be assisting him with that, not telling him he's no longer welcome.

[Wild Cobra]

This is an American citizen that wants to go back home. The US Embassy over there should be assisting him with that, not telling him he's no longer welcome.
Do you have evidence they aren't? Maybe they don't have enough power over there? ASSume much?

[ElNono]

Do you have evidence they aren't? Maybe they don't have enough power over there? ASSume much?

You didn't read the articles :lol

This is why you're retarded. You don't even read but you want to argue. :lol

[ElNono]

The questions Mohamed was repeatedly asked -- including two days ago by American embassy officials and FBI agents who visited him in the detention facility -- focused on whether he knew Anwar al-Awlaki, the American cleric in Yemen who has become an obsession of the Obama administration, as well as why he went to Yemen and Somalia.

lol didn't read...

[Wild Cobra]

You didn't read the articles :lol

This is why you're retarded. You don't even read but you want to argue. :lol
Yes, what did I miss. Quote the line, and which link it's from please. I read several articles, even listened to the taped interview from the smuggled cell phone.

Did you?

[ElNono]

Already quoted. You didn't read.

lol taking a boat...

[Wild Cobra]

The questions Mohamed was repeatedly asked -- including two days ago by American embassy officials and FBI agents who visited him in the detention facility -- focused on whether he knew Anwar al-Awlaki, the American cleric in Yemen who has become an obsession of the Obama administration, as well as why he went to Yemen and Somalia.

lol didn't read...
Why do only six sites say that? What if imposers posed as them? I see several allegations, with no credibility.

[ElNono]

Why do only six sites say that? What if imposers posed as them? I see several allegations, with no credibility.

You see what you want to see. That much is clear.

What's your evidence that makes the reports not credible? Again, you're disputing the articles as reported, it's up to you to provide credible proof that they're wrong.

[Wild Cobra]

You see what you want to see. That much is clear.

What's your evidence that makes the reports not credible? Again, you're disputing the articles as reported, it's up to you to provide credible proof that they're wrong.
Bullshit.

Here I am being open minded saying no proper evidence exists, but you are adamant there there is sufficient evidence.

Go fuck off. I'm done with you until you open your mind.

[LnGrrrR]

Bottom line El-don't-know...

I said he was not barred from traveling to the USA. You disagreed. Sure, maybe he's barred by plane, but not my other means. He can go to Canada, and take a bus if necessary.

Stop arguing around that simple fact. Makes you look like a loser.

First off, you're assuming that officials would let him in, even though the story says they wouldn't.

But assuming he could take a boat here, why should he have to? Does that make any sense? Shouldn't Americans have effective legal recourse to challenge their name being on a no-fly list? Or do you think the executive should have the right to put whoever they want on the no-fly list?

[LnGrrrR]

Bullshit.

Here I am being open minded saying no proper evidence exists, but you are adamant there there is sufficient evidence.

Go fuck off. I'm done with you until you open your mind.

Greenwald interviewed the man himself. Do you think he's lying?

[LnGrrrR]

Bullshit.

Here I am being open minded saying no proper evidence exists, but you are adamant there there is sufficient evidence.

Go fuck off. I'm done with you until you open your mind.

Proper evidence does exist. The man himself being kidnapped, beaten and put on he no-fly list are the first pieces.

[Wild Cobra]

First off, you're assuming that officials would let him in, even though the story says they wouldn't.

But assuming he could take a boat here, why should he have to? Does that make any sense? Shouldn't Americans have effective legal recourse to challenge their name being on a no-fly list? Or do you think the executive should have the right to put whoever they want on the no-fly list?
In my argument there, I am proving that my contention he is not barred from coming back to the USA is correct. Being on a no-fly list only applies to flying.

I am not saying it is right. Just that it is factual, and that El-Don't-Know's contention he is barred from USA entry is incorrect.

[LnGrrrR]

In my argument there, I am proving that my contention he is not barred from coming back to the USA is correct. Being on a no-fly list only applies to flying.

I am not saying it is right. Just that it is factual, and that El-Don't-Know's contention he is barred from USA entry is incorrect.

But Greenwald, who is a reporter/pundit, has stated officials have said he can't enter. Do you think Greenwald is lying? If so, what's the evidence?

[ElNono]

Bullshit.

Here I am being open minded saying no proper evidence exists, but you are adamant there there is sufficient evidence.

Go fuck off. I'm done with you until you open your mind.

No, you're calling people liars, then pretending you know better.

Liar.

[ElNono]

In my argument there, I am proving that my contention he is not barred from coming back to the USA is correct.

What proof? Where is it? link?

Liar.

[Wild Cobra]

Proper evidence does exist. The man himself being kidnapped, beaten and put on he no-fly list are the first pieces.

Is he in fact on the no fly list? Those detaining him told him he was. Does that make it fact, or are they just using excuses?

Name me one USA official that is in the know, and has said he is on the no fly list? Do they know it as fact, or just propagating rumor?

Maybe he really is on the no fly list. Maybe it's a lie. Can you say one way or another factually?

It seems I am the only one maintain an open mind on this. It is a tragedy. However, we are arguing about unproven allegations.

[ElNono]

Is he in fact on the no fly list? Those detaining him told him he was. Does that make it fact, or are they just using excuses

Those that detained him did not tell him that. American officials did.

Did you read the articles? :lol

[Wild Cobra]

What proof? Where is it? link?

Liar.
Do I need a link to prove that the no fly list includes all methods of international travel?

Again...

Go fuck off you idiot.

[Wild Cobra]

Those that detained him did not tell him that. American officials did.

Did you read the articles? :lol
Did you listen to the taped interview?

Fuck off till you do.

[ElNono]

Why 'six articles' would lie? What is it that they need to lie about?
How many articles need to report the same thing for you to be 'credible'?

[Wild Cobra]

interview (http://static.salon.com/media/mp3/2011/01/gulet1.mp3)

[ElNono]

Did you listen to the taped interview?

I did. Did you read the interviews he had with other reporters too?

Liar.

[ElNono]

Do I need a link to prove that the no fly list includes all methods of international travel?

So you didn't prove anything, yet you claim you did.

Liar.

[LnGrrrR]

Is he in fact on the no fly list? Those detaining him told him he was. Does that make it fact, or are they just using excuses?

Name me one USA official that is in the know, and has said he is on the no fly list? Do they know it as fact, or just propagating rumor?

Maybe he really is on the no fly list. Maybe it's a lie. Can you say one way or another factually?

It seems I am the only one maintain an open mind on this. It is a tragedy. However, we are arguing about unproven allegations.

I don't have to name an official, because Greenwald talked to one. Do you believe Greenwald or not?

Do you have to actually live in space to know there's no air up there?

If you think Greenwald is lying, then say so. But that's different than an "open mind".

[ElNono]

Greenwald is lying.
The NY Times is lying.
The kid's lawyer is lying.
Six other reports are lying.

or Wild Cobra is lying...

hmmm...

[LnGrrrR]

Do you have evidence they aren't? Maybe they don't have enough power over there? ASSume much?

Uhmm if he wasn'ton the no-fly list, he'd probably be home by now.

[Wild Cobra]

I don't have to name an official, because Greenwald talked to one. Do you believe Greenwald or not?
Did he? could he of made it up? Why unnamed? Could he of talked to an imposer instead?

Sorry, I have a problem with this "unnamed source" thing. Always have, always will.

If you think Greenwald is lying, then say so. But that's different than an "open mind".
I don't know if he is or not. Maybe he is right about him being on a no fly list. Still, my intended statement that we are arguing around is that the no fly list only applies to aircraft, therefore does not bar him from other means of USA entry.

Why are you arguing around that? Agree or disagree? Does the no fly list bar all forms of USA entry?

[Wild Cobra]

Uhmm if he wasn'ton the no-fly list, he'd probably be home by now.
I forget...

Is he still detained or not? If he is being detained still, how will he get back?

How did he get on the no fly list? He flew there just fine. Did who ever wanted to detain him arrange for his name on the list if it is there?

[LnGrrrR]

Did he? could he of made it up? Why unnamed? Could he of talked to an imposer instead?

Sorry, I have a problem with this "unnamed source" thing. Always have, always will.

Fair enough. Could you see why the source might want to remain unnamed? This might be a black eye on the government.


I don't know if he is or not. Maybe he is right about him being on a no fly list. Still, my intended statement that we are arguing around is that the no fly list only applies to aircraft, therefore does not bar him from other means of USA entry.

Why are you arguing around that? Agree or disagree? Does the no fly list bar all forms of USA entry?

Because Greenwald and other reporters have mentioned the unnamed source saying that the offical bars him from entry to the US. Do you not believe the reporters, or the unnamed official?

[LnGrrrR]

How did he get on the no fly list? He flew there just fine. Did who ever wanted to detain him arrange for his name on the list if it is there?

Does the government share its reasons why someone is on the watch list? I doubt it.

As for whoever detaining him putting on the no-fly list... do you think the government will ever give out that info either?

[ElNono]

I forget...

Is he still detained or not? If he is being detained still, how will he get back?

How did he get on the no fly list? He flew there just fine. Did who ever wanted to detain him arrange for his name on the list if it is there?

It's not that complicated really. He went to renew his Kuwait visa and was detained and interrogated. Kuwait decided they want to deport him back to the US. As such he's going to be detained until either he's deported or they change their mind. The US claims that he cannot be deported because he's been added to a no-fly list (obviously, that has happened at some point recently).

He can't walk freely to a harbor and board a ship. He cannot be deported because the US is barring him entry. He's effectively imprisoned until the US removes him from the no-fly list or Kuwait decides to grant him a visa and release him.

Let's not forget for a moment here that Kuwait, as Greenwald points out, is basically a country that does whatever the US tells them to do.

[Wild Cobra]

It's not that complicated really. He went to renew his Kuwait visa and was detained and interrogated. Kuwait decided they want to deport him back to the US. As such he's going to be detained until either he's deported or they change their mind. The US claims that he cannot be deported because he's been added to a no-fly list (obviously, that has happened at some point recently).

He can't walk freely to a harbor and board a ship. He cannot be deported because the US is barring him entry. He's effectively imprisoned until the US removes him from the no-fly list or Kuwait decides to grant him a visa and release him.

Let's not forget for a moment here that Kuwait, as Greenwald points out, is basically a country that does whatever the US tells them to do.
Doesn't it sound odd to you that it's the FBI, in Kuwait, that is talking to as US officials? Looks like someone is posing as FBI to me.

Don't you see... the story doesn't add up. Also, I only found two reporters who interviewed him. Not six.

link please.

[Wild Cobra]

Also...

If he isn't free to go to the harbor, it's the Kuwaitis not allowing him to travel. Not the USA.

[ElNono]

Doesn't it sound odd to you that it's the FBI, in Kuwait, that is talking to as US officials? Looks like someone is posing as FBI to me.

First of all, the FBI was talking with the kid.
Second of all, are you even aware that the FBI has offices on every embassy?
Both the kid's lawyer and the reporters contacted the DOJ for comments. How long do you think it takes for the FBI to deny it was them asking the questions?

That you think it's more plausible that people are impersonating US officials in a country basically under US control is hilarious, if it wouldn't be so sad.


Don't you see... the story doesn't add up. Also, I only found two reporters who interviewed him. Not six.

link please.

But persons impersonating both FBI officials and US diplomatic officials do add up... :lmao

If it were impersonators, then the kid would be flying home now. Since the impersonators are the ones that claim he's on a no-fly list.

Oh, and here's the link/quote:


Why do only six sites say that?

[ElNono]

Also...

If he isn't free to go to the harbor, it's the Kuwaitis not allowing him to travel. Not the USA.

The Kuwaitis want to deport him. The US don't want to take their own citizen back.

[scott]

A great opportunity to dust off this one from 10/03/10





I wonder if <victim> were <improbable circumstance> to <cause my incredibly stupid position to be valid>.

And a link for prosperity http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163120&page=2

[Winehole23]

An American teenager who was detained for several weeks in Kuwait and placed on an American no-fly list landed Friday morning at Dulles International Airport, where he was briefly questioned by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/f/federal_bureau_of_investigation/index.html?inline=nyt-org) and then released to his family.

A lawyer for the 19-year-old Somali-American, Gulet Mohamed, said that F.B.I. agents talked to Mr. Mohamed shortly after he stepped off the plane, and eventually allowed him to pass through immigration (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/i/immigration_and_refugees/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) and customs checkpoints.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/22/us/22detain.html?_r=1&ref=us

[elbamba]

Have any facts been released as to what they believed he was up to in Yemen or Samolia?

[Winehole23]

I wouldn't call those facts, but no.

[boutons_deux]

"believed he was up to in Yemen or Samolia"

I'm sure they won't say, because they denied an unindicted/unconvicted citizen entry to USA because they didn't "like" where he was going. That's how a "nation of laws" rolls.

[ElNono]

Didn't know there was a seaport at Dulles... :rolleyes

[Winehole23]

It must have been a very fast boat.