So Jan..how's that working out for ya?

[George Gervin's Afro]

2nd person denied Ariz. transplant coverage dies


PHOENIX – A second person denied transplant coverage by Arizona under a state budget cut has died, with this death "most likely" resulting from the coverage reduction, a hospital spokeswoman said Wednesday.

University Medical Center spokeswoman Jo Marie Gellerman said the patient died Dec. 28 at another medical facility after earlier being removed from UMC's list for a liver transplant needed because of hepatitis C.

Gellerman cited medical privacy requirements in declining to release any information about the patient.

Arizona reduced Medicaid coverage for transplants on Oct. 1 under cuts included to help close a shortfall in the state budget enacted last spring.

Officials at the Tucson, Ariz., hospital said the patient's death "most likely" resulted from Arizona's scaling back coverage for transplants, she said.

It's impossible to say with 100 percent certainty whether the patient would have died anyway, Gellerman said, "but we do know that his condition has gotten more severe since he was taken off the list."

The patient's worsening condition would have elevated his place on the list, she added.

A Phoenix-area man, Mark Price, died Nov. 28 of complications from preparation for a bone-marrow transplant that was to be privately funded. That funding was provided anonymously after The Associated Press and other media outlets reported that he was notified of two possible donors on Oct. 1, the same day the coverage was reduced.

The second person's death was reported by KOLD-TV in Tucson and the Arizona Guardian.

Democrats and other critics have slammed Republican Gov. Jan Brewer and the Republican-led Legislature for the transplant coverage reduction, and incoming Senate Minority Leader David Schapira called on them to restore the approximately $1.4 million of funding.

"Failure to restore this funding is a death sentence for people who have committed no crimes," he said.

Contacted for comment on the latest death, Brewer spokeswoman Paul Senseman said the governor's office didn't have confirmation that the person was enrolled in the state Medicaid program, the Arizona Health Care Cost Containment System.

Brewer earlier Wednesday renewed her defense of the transplant coverage reduction but expressed a willingness to have it reviewed.

"It's something that probably needs to be discussed," Brewer said. "Eveybody is concerned about it, as I am. The bottom line is ... that was one of those areas that we could cut and we moved forward on that."

Brewer commented when asked by a reporter about a legislative committee chairman's intention to review the transplant cutbacks during a future budget hearing.

Brewer and Republican lawmakers want to drop approximately 250,000 people from AHCCCS enrollment because of the state's continuing budget troubles and the impending loss of federal stimulus funding that has propped up spending on the Medicaid program.

Arizona faces a projected $1.4 billion shortfall in its next state budget.

Brewer has said she will ask President Barack Obama's administration for a waiver permitting the enrollment reduction. The federal health care overhaul otherwise bars the enrollment reduction.


Tough talk from the GOP during the election season regarding funding cuts and making govt smaller .... I guess it's difficult to defend your policies when they start to cost lives...

[xrayzebra]

So what is your point? Government owes everyone a
transplant? Or everyone is entitled to a transplant?
And if so, are you ready to cut back on other social programs to pay for these transplants or just essential
services.

[George Gervin's Afro]

So what is your point? Government owes everyone a
transplant? Or everyone is entitled to a transplant?
And if so, are you ready to cut back on other social programs to pay for these transplants or just essential
services.

Your right Ray money means more than life itself :toast

[SnakeBoy]

That's a bullshit article. The first guy was going to get a privately funded transplant but died from complications. The second person you have no details on, just someone who is not a physician making a guess as to why the person "most likely" died.

[xrayzebra]

Your right Ray money means more than life itself :toast

So you are saying government has an endless supply of our money?

And so you come back with a cliche about life so
much more important than money.

You forgot to add: If it only saves one life, it
is worth it.

[CosmicCowboy]

He had Chronic Hepatitis C. Do you know what the fuck that is? They give him a new liver and it would just attack THAT liver. They didn't say he couldn't have a transplant, just that Medicare wouldn't pay for it.

[George Gervin's Afro]

He had Chronic Hepatitis C. Do you know what the fuck that is? They give him a new liver and it would just attack THAT liver. They didn't say he couldn't have a transplant, just that Medicare wouldn't pay for it.

so it's a death panel

[CosmicCowboy]

so it's a death panel

yawn

It's a terminal illness

and your point?

[ChumpDumper]

yawn

It's a terminal illness

and your point?Life is terminal.

AZ just decided to speed up the date on these folks because AZ believes in the sanctity of life.

[Blake]

apparently not spending $1.4 million on sick Arizona natives will go a long way towards balancing their $8.5 billion budget.

[DarrinS]

"Maybe you're better off, uh, not having the surgery, but taking, uh, the pain killer..." -- Barack Hussein Obama (non-Socialist)

[ChumpDumper]

"Maybe you're better off, uh, not having the surgery, but taking, uh, the pain killer..." -- Barack Hussein Obama (non-Socialist)"Maybe I, uh, didn't know what I was talking about without a, uh, YouTube..." -- DarrinS (diligent office worker)

[EVAY]

Darrin,

Unless you have personally watched someone you love beg to to be allowed to die to stop the pain, or have them beg for pain medication which has been denied because the doctors concluded that the morphine could be deadly itself, please do not comment in this situation. Your ignorance is obvious and hurtful to those who have.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Darrin,

Unless you have personally watched someone you love beg to to be allowed to die to stop the pain, or have them beg for pain medication which has been denied because the doctors concluded that the morphine could be deadly itself, please do not comment in this situation. Your ignorance is obvious and hurtful to those who have.

his ignorance is painful...but hey at least they saved 1.4 million..

[Wild Cobra]

That's a bullshit article. The first guy was going to get a privately funded transplant but died from complications. The second person you have no details on, just someone who is not a physician making a guess as to why the person "most likely" died.
Not only that, I'll bet the liver went to someone else, who didn't die because of it.

Does someone think we have an endless supply of transplantable organs?

[ChumpDumper]

We believe in the sanctity of life within budget parameters.

[EricB]

We believe in the sanctity of life within budget parameters.

This is a low blow rhetoric shot I expected from someone other than you chump....

[ChumpDumper]

This is a low blow rhetoric shot I expected from someone other than you chump....Well it is actually the case. Transplant organs are rationed (!) and cost is a major concern.

I don't think it is an indelicate way to put it in light of all the health care rhetoric of the past couple of years. What people claim to fear happening in the future has already been going on.

[DMX7]

Death Panel! Why isn't Sarah Palin all over this? I'm shocked!

[balli]

Does someone think we have an endless supply of transplantable organs?

Not yet, but maybe relatively soon. Depending on whether the bat-shit GOP finds a way to obstruct stem-sell research like they did for most of the past two decades.

[Yonivore]

Not yet, but maybe relatively soon. Depending on whether the bat-shit GOP finds a way to obstruct stem-sell research like they did for most of the past two decades.
Embryonic Stem Cell Research has not produced any positive results for anything. Adult Stem Cell Research, on the other hand (and not opposed by the GOP) has.

[Yonivore]

This is a low blow rhetoric shot I expected from someone other than you chump....
Really? Chumpy?

[Winehole23]

Embryonic Stem Cell Research has not produced any positive results for anything. Adult Stem Cell Research, on the other hand (and not opposed by the GOP) has.I'm from Missouri. Show me.

[Yonivore]

I'm from Missouri. Show me.

http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/articles/winter01/stem_cell.html

yj7ejgEHdPc

[ElNono]

Embryonic Stem Cell Research has not produced any positive results for anything.

Uh? The first step with adult stem cells is to induce them into a pluripotent state, which basically means turn them into their embryonic equivalents.

Whatever results you get from adult stems cells you can obtain from embryonic. You're just adding an extra step (which obviously cost money and time).

Embryonic stem cells are basically pluripotent from the get go, and arguably better suited to do actual stem cell research. It's just hard to develop results when funding to do actual research on them is basically banned, whereas adult stem cells do not have that limitation.

[ElNono]

BTW, that article from 2002 is fairly dated. At this point it is already known what causes stem cells to "transdifferentiate", and how it can be inhibited, among other things.

(No knock on its entirety, thanks for posting)

[Wild Cobra]

Uh? The first step with adult stem cells is to induce them into a pluripotent state, which basically means turn them into their embryonic equivalents.

Whatever results you get from adult stems cells you can obtain from embryonic. You're just adding an extra step (which obviously cost money and time).

Embryonic stem cells are basically pluripotent from the get go, and arguably better suited to do actual stem cell research. It's just hard to develop results when funding to do actual research on them is basically banned, whereas adult stem cells do not have that limitation.
Not true.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Not true.

Are we supposed to take your word on this?

[ElNono]

Not true.

What part?

[TeyshaBlue]

Tough talk from the GOP during the election season regarding funding cuts and making govt smaller .... I guess it's difficult to defend your policies when they start to cost lives...

I see. So I can conclude that this just started happening, right? I mean, nobody was denied a transplant prior to this.

[George Gervin's Afro]

I see. So I can conclude that this just started happening, right? I mean, nobody was denied a transplant prior to this.

Before the budget was cut? His transplant was going to be covered prior to the budget reduction... so if your question is, has anyone ever been denied a transplant because of the budget being reduced? then I suppose it is a no.

[TeyshaBlue]

Before the budget was cut? His transplant was going to be covered prior to the budget reduction... so if your question is, has anyone ever been denied a transplant because of the budget being reduced? then I suppose it is a no.

I'm pretty sure a lack of money has probably prevented a transplant before, GGA.

It's nice that you can pin it on a specific legislative initiative tho. I'll bet if you try real hard, you can find where the reduction was a result of the loss of federal funding. That is if you want to.

[George Gervin's Afro]

I'm pretty sure a lack of money has probably prevented a transplant before, GGA.

It's nice that you can pin it on a specific legislative initiative tho. I'll bet if you try real hard, you can find where the reduction was a result of the loss of federal funding. That is if you want to.


So did the feds decide to reduce that portion of the budget? Or was it the govornr's office who decided? You do realize she, brewer, initially blamed it on obamacare..?

[Crookshanks]

People get sick and people die. There isn't an unlimited amount of money to perform these procedures. It may be sad - but it's a fact of life.

[Blake]

There isn't an unlimited amount of money to perform these procedures.

the amount of money pulled was $1.4 million...

or is it a matter of principal for you?

[Crookshanks]

the amount of money pulled was $1.4 million...

or is it a matter of principal for you?

Budget cuts have to start somewhere. People are so quick to say "it's just a drop in the bucket, not going to make a dent in the deficit". Well, add up several drops, and you start getting a significant amount. No one wants to see cuts - but somewhere, somehow, the spigot has to be turned off!

[ChumpDumper]

People get sick and people die. There isn't an unlimited amount of money to perform these procedures. It may be sad - but it's a fact of life.So you're saying there has already been rationing of health care and, in effect, death panels.

Thanks.

[RandomGuy]

Embryonic Stem Cell Research has not produced any positive results for anything. Adult Stem Cell Research, on the other hand (and not opposed by the GOP) has.

Ironic thing about that:

It is quite easy to blame governmental interference and red tape for that lack of progress, two things you are generally opposed to.

Yet you praise the results of that red tape when you find the cause emotionally appealing. :lol

[RandomGuy]

Oddly enough studies have found that the majority of health care spending in a human's lifetime comes in the last 10 years of that life. If memory serves that factoid said something like 75%. I can see if I can dig it back up.

That said, counties with low expenditures on health care have things like requirements for people to consider end-of-life care and how much effort they want spent on keeping them alive.

Most people, if they really sit down and consider/think about it, don't want to be kept in an semi-vegatative state for years. Often it is a distraught relative or overly cautious doctor who ends up making the decision to leave someone on expensive life-sustaining treatment that does little but prolong misery.

I think we can easily make health care more affordable for everybody by simply mandating or requiring people to have such counseling.

Yeah, I want the nanny state to force everybody to confront their own death. It is a lot cheaper for everybody that way, if you don't like it, then suck it, and take the counseling anyways, because I don't want your poor decision making to steal money out of my pocket.

[ElNono]

Budget cuts have to start somewhere. People are so quick to say "it's just a drop in the bucket, not going to make a dent in the deficit". Well, add up several drops, and you start getting a significant amount. No one wants to see cuts - but somewhere, somehow, the spigot has to be turned off!

You could easily start them somewhere where lives don't depend on it.

With the current inflated cost of care, I agree that rationing has been unavoidable and will probably get worse as time goes on since cuts will inevitably continue to happen, but I also think sometimes the priorities have been misplaced. $1.4 million is probably a grant or two of pork for some interest group. That should be the first line of cuts.

[ElNono]

Oddly enough studies have found that the majority of health care spending in a human's lifetime comes in the last 10 years of that life.

Which makes the health insurance scam bigger than ever. Once you're old enough, they won't assume the risk anymore and dump you to the government.

[RandomGuy]

Which makes the health insurance scam bigger than ever. Once you're old enough, they won't assume the risk anymore and dump you to the government.

Mostly right. They will simply jack the premiums and deductibles up to the point where you are paying for most of it out of pocket. My parents are in this boat.

Recent studies of baby boomers show they are generally far behind in saving enough for retirement, and that trend will, in my opinion, be very likely not reversed. I would guess it will accelerate.

This means more and more will be forced onto Medicare/-aid's rolls.

Get ready for it.

Tax increases or benefit cuts are inevitable. Stories such as the OP will become more common.

People are going to die for lack of ability to pay for some needed health care or other, and that number will be bigger than many will believe.

If you don't think that will happen, I have some mortgage-backed securities for you.

[ElNono]

People are going to die for lack of ability to pay for some needed health care or other, and that number will be bigger than many will believe.

If you don't think that will happen, I have some mortgage-backed securities for you.

I believe that has been happening for a while now. I agree it will only get worse if we stick with the status quo or the crap that was passed the last time.