PF or Center?

[ladiesman]

Amare keeps saying that he is playing out of position(palying center vs PF) while defending Duncan. Aren't they both PF's?

[cherylsteele]

Yes...it is called an excuse.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

http://img.coxnewsweb.com/B/05/34/55/image_1555345.jpg

[RobinsontoDuncan]

Duncan is actually a center, not PF has ever been that much of a back to the basket player, Garnett is more of the proto-typical Power Forward. if you ever hear Walton address Nazr, he always refers to him as a PF (because he is basically saying Duncan is a center like it or not)

[ladiesman]

Duncan is actually a center, not PF has ever been that much of a back to the basket player,

That is his bread and butter, what the hell are you talking about? guess I don't understand your response....

[AZLouis]

If Amare is smart he won't force the issue of returning to PF. He is unstoppable at that position and the Suns are in a better position to win because of that.

Marion has done well at PF, save for this series of course.

The mismatch plays perfectly into the Suns' style and tempo they want to force. Going to a more prototypical lineup will only hinder the Suns' game.

I don't see it happening as a Suns fan. Phoenix has always been a running team.
I don't imagine the Suns will overreact as a result of this series. SA is simply a better team and more experienced.

They should look back to last year - 29 wins.
And compare it to this year; 62 wins, 3 all stars, 3 all leaguers, COY, EOY and a trip to the WCF.

Why change what you got right?

[ducks]

they need a defensive pressence that could care less if he scores

[ChumpDumper]

I always wonder how players think their games would change if they changed positions.

Duncan's wouldn't change a bit.

Amare? I guess he'd get to guard guys more his size, but D'Antoni tries to shield him from guarding the main post scorer if possible as much as Pop shields Duncan -- it's just easier for Pop to do so with all the bigs available to him that can actually play.

Just curious, does D'Antoni have any tape of the last Suns-Spurs series? I'm surprised Bosco hasn't gotten any burn at all, considering he guards Duncan the way that can actually bother him over the course of a game like, say, anyone on the Sonics.

[DDS4]

Funny...

Dirk didn't want to guard Amare, Amare doesn't want to guard TD.

[GSH]

Just about a month ago, there were a lot of sports writers and commentators crowing about how Amare is the new prototype for centers in the NBA. And Amare was eating it up. Now they are backpeddling, talking about how he is really a power forward, playing out of position. Amazing, the difference a few weeks can make.

Amare is right - he is out of position. The moment they lined him up to go head-to-head with Tim Duncan, he was out of position. The position he wants to be playing is on the other side of the court, watching someone else try to defend Duncan.

I don't think the rest of the NBA is ready to abandon the idea of having a big man in the middle just yet. Maybe Amare is the new prototype for NBA-centers-not-playing-against-Tim-Duncan.

[Slomo]

Amare is right - he is out of position. The moment they lined him up to go head-to-head with Tim Duncan, he was out of position. The position he wants to be playing is on the other side of the court, watching someone else try to defend Duncan.
:lol

That's a position I would excel at too! Possibly from the front row seats.

[AZLouis]

GSH, Amare has said from day 1 he'd prefer the PF position. No other way around it. Nothing to do with TD. Nothing to do with anybody. It's his preference.

Amare may be the "new" center. Just like KG and Dirk are the "new" PFs. The players are getting more athletic and talented. Lamar Odom runs the point. Rashard Lewis isn't a natural PF either. Marion isn't even a natural PF. The list goes on.

TD is an exception because he is so great. Plain and simple. It has nothing to do with the "new" centers or PFs. Doesn't matter who defends him. Whether it's Ben Wallace or Malik Rose. That's why TD is so great.

You are probably right, D'Antoni does not usually let Amare guard the top post scorer. He's young and still makes bad plays. Not to mention, the Suns are a team that will allow a player to score so it doesn't screw up the tempo. Didn't work in this series or against the Spurs all year, though.

The youngest team in the NBA will be fine next year. Amare will still probably average 40 pts/game against the Spurs and TD will still be TD. Like it or not Amare is going to be great (barring injury) and is going to be pushed as a superstar in the league. His rebounding and defense will get better, I guarantee it.

Last year Amare couldn't shoot. So during the summer he worked on it and now he has a decent jumper to go with his post moves and aggression on offense. He started to become a good shot blocker and better rebounder at the end of this season. Those are things he will work on this summer. His goal as he has often said is to become the greatest player in the NBA, not just one of the greats.

[SpursFanDan]

Duncan can do Either.... amare is a little bitch that needs excuses. And who said tim can't play with his back to the basket. he owns when his back is to the basket.

[Dre_7]

if you ever hear Walton address Nazr, he always refers to him as a PF (because he is basically saying Duncan is a center like it or not)

And we all know that Walton is the man when it comes to knowing basketball!!!

[mavsfan1000]

Centers who like to play physical give Duncan the most trouble. If you put a power forward on Duncan he will just overpower you. He will play well either way but Amare can't guard Duncan because he is not big enough and not smart enough on how to slow down Duncan.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

I wish tony's work at developing a jumper this off-season worked out the same way Amare's did.

[mavsfan1000]

It's hard to complain about anything on this team. This team is as perfect as you can get in this league. The only thing is Parker's jumper. The only weakness you had was center and Mohammad fix that pretty well.

[Solid D]

Tim plays both 4 and 5 throughout the game. When Nazr or Rasho is in there, Tim plays the 4 on offense. When Robert is in there, Tim plays the 5 on offense.

Example: Watch Pop call the popular play in to Tony by signaling 1, 5 rub (rubs his shirt) and roll (rolls hands over in a travelling type of signal). That's the high screen with Tim (5) setting up for TP (1), and the offense cycles off of that.

4 and 5 are fairly interchangeable in the Spurs' system, as are 2 and 3.

[Rummpd]

AZLouis you should be commended for your loyalty to your team.

[Sense]

Just because Duncan is bigger than nazr dont mean that hes a center.

[Catharsis]

they need a defensive pressence that could care less if he scores
They have one of those, his name is Bo Outlaw. The problem is, he's offense it so bad that he hurts the team as they play 4-on-5 in their offensive sets.

[Catharsis]

Just because Duncan is bigger than nazr dont mean that hes a center.
I think the PF association with Duncan came when he was playing side by side with David Robinson. Robinson was the center, so Duncan was the PF. In actuallity, they were both centers. When Robinson left, Nasho was supposed to be the big man to replace him. Now it's Nazr. Duncan plays like a center, and Pops plays him as a center. You can't tell because he's always on the floor with another center.

But I think the classification as both a PF and C is good since it allowed Duncan to play along side of Shaq in the all star game instead of the two competing for the center spot. Now that Shaq is in the east it doesn't really matter, but Amare will now classify as a center on next year's all star ballot and I think he wil continue to despite where D'Antoni really plays him.

[T Park]

The problem is, he's offense it so bad that he hurts the team as they play 4-on-5 in their offensive sets.

No the problem is your and the team's mentality.

offense offense offense.

If youd get a defensive mentality, by playing a Bo Outlaw more often, the team would be much more sucessfull in the pLAYOFFS.

[Dre_7]

No the problem is your and the team's mentality.

offense offense offense.

If youd get a defensive mentality, by playing a Bo Outlaw more often, the team would be much more sucessfull in the pLAYOFFS.

Yeah I agree. So far the defensive minded team is beating the offensive minded team!

[Catharsis]

No the problem is your and the team's mentality.

offense offense offense.

If youd get a defensive mentality, by playing a Bo Outlaw more often, the team would be much more sucessfull in the pLAYOFFS.
Do you even know who Bo Outlaw is? Have you seen him shoot the ball?

[Catharsis]

I have to say, I love how all of a sudden I have a say in how the Suns will play.

If only I was defensive minded.

If only I was less diven by offense.

When have I discredited defense and it's use. Every post I've made has been in defense of why things happen the way they do for the Suns, not why it's best. I've always been for balance. You don't even know me to make that judgement.

[bigbendbruisebrother]

Tim plays both 4 and 5 throughout the game. When Nazr or Rasho is in there, Tim plays the 4 on offense. When Robert is in there, Tim plays the 5 on offense system, as are 2 and 3.

That's a point that I think many people misunderstand about Duncan, and something I didn't fully grasp until recently. Tim Duncan plays both positions in any given game pretty much equally. Here's what I mean.

When I was about to post the +/- thread a couple of weeks ago (you know, the one that devolved into another Barry bashfest), I stumbled onto the Production by Position Stats at 82games.com.(http://www.82games.com/playoffs/045PSAS5.HTM). When I saw the averages for the Spurs at center per game in the playoffs, I was stunned: It's 22.2 points per game! Then I looked at the average for Power Forward: It's 21.5 points per game. Thinking something was amiss (Nazr and Rasho averaging more than Tim and Horry?), I emailed the site and asked how they calculated the stats for each position.

Here's the verbatim response I got:



Hi Vaughn,

We have a system that evaluates the positions for a given moment based upon who else is on the floor. So for instance, Duncan is sometimes perceived to be playing PF and sometimes C. Each player has their own production by position page as well, so for Duncan in the playoffs it's http://www.82games.com/playoffs/04SAS10C.HTM and you can see he's currently been 36% PF, 35% C for the team total minutes. Another useful thing is the player 5man units http://www.82games.com/playoffs/04SAS10B.HTM

Regards,
Roland


So, next time you start to rip someone for calling Duncan a center, realize that about 1/2 the time he's on the floor, he is just that.

[picnroll]

When Outlaw played in 2003 against the Spurs in the first round it was a much tougher series, much better Suns defense. He was a large part of the reason. Bo's not the answer but Suns need a designated defensive warrior on the floor to set the tone for the rest of the players. You don't need five guys that can all score the ball.

[Catharsis]

When Outlaw played in 2003 against the Spurs in the first round it was a much tougher series, much better Suns defense. He was a large part of the reason. Bo's not the answer but Suns need a designated defensive warrior on the floor to set the tone for the rest of the players. You don't need five guys that can all score the ball.
Bo was not a big factor in the 2003 series. He average the 3rd least minutes on the Suns that series. Scott Williams was more of a factor in that series. Bo is a defensive specialist, but he makes Bowen look like Jordan.

While I agree that you don't need five guys that can score, five guys who can score and one of them being am outstanding defender is MUCH better. Imagine Bowen with all star offensive powers. Nash is the teams weak link defensively, but the rest of the team is decent. It's more of D'Antoni's philosophy than ability. A defensive minded player will not make it on the Suns as long as D'Antoni is the coach. Hunter didn't get playing time until he started scoring--and hitting free throws.

[picnroll]

Bo played hellacious D and set he tone for their scrambling, double teaming, disruptive D which caused the Spurs all kinds of problems. Did you even watch the series?

Amare is equally weak as Nash. His defensive rotation is horrendous. If you're man gets by you don't be expecting Amare to make the right rotation to cover for you.