Rand Paul's Voice of Reason.

[Parker2112]

:toast

kgEAG3FNGEc

[Duff McCartney]

Please...as stated in other threads..this killer had political views. Some of them reflect what old Rand Pauls dad has been espousing about money.

[Yonivore]

Please...as stated in other threads..this killer had political views. Some of them reflect what old Rand Pauls dad has been espousing about money.
And, as stated in other threads, there is no shred of proof his "political views," such as they may have been, played any role in his decision to attempt to assassinate Congresswoman Giffords.

Most of what we know points to the simple premise that he just didn't like her because she was "fake" and had slighted him a some other constituent function in 2007. It appears that festered in his brain, over the period of years, manifesting in this insane act.

[Duff McCartney]

And, as stated in other threads, there is no shred of proof his "political views," such as they may have been, played any role in his decision to attempt to assassinate Congresswoman Giffords.

Most of what we know points to the simple premise that he just didn't like her because she was "fake" and had slighted him a some other constituent function in 2007. It appears that festered in his brain, over the period of years, manifesting in this insane act.

I don't know if they did or didn't. But to act like he was apolitical is simply not true. It's obvious he had political views. Rand Paul and others are being not so truthful when they say he had no political views. He did, whether they played a role in this isn't known yet. Pointing fingers isn't the right thing to do, but regardless of all that, I think it's fair to say that the vitriol from both sides is ridiculous.

[Yonivore]

I don't know if they did or didn't. But to act like he was apolitical is simply not true. It's obvious he had political views. Rand Paul and others are being not so truthful when they say he had no political views. He did, whether they played a role in this isn't known yet. Pointing fingers isn't the right thing to do,...Nobody has said Loughner had no political views.

In this clip, all I heard Paul say was that there is no reason to believe his political views had anything to do with Saturday's act. And, since there's no proof to the contrary, Paul makes a valid point.


but regardless of all that, I think it's fair to say that the vitriol from both sides is ridiculous.
I don't recall anyone from the Tea Party or the right, for that matter, jumping to the conclusion this was the work of a left-wing ideologue, pro-immigrant zealot, or terrorist.

Those on the right spent most of the past 5 days trying to convince the left they were idiots for so relentlessly pursuing the "he-was-animated-by-Sarah-Palin" narrative in the face of increasingly more convincing evidence it just wasn't true.

Any vitriol from the right, over this issue, was, in my mind, born of indignation and disgust at the New York Times, Paul Krugman, Sheriff Dupnick, et. al.

[Parker2112]

Murder is not a political act. It transcends political discourse, and is only wielded by those who cant conform to civilzed society under any set of circumstances.

If you are going to tie this murder to politics, than you will have no trouble tying other killings to Ozzy Osbourne and Marilyn Manson.

And all these comparisons are deceptive, shallow, fraudulent, and ultimately they do the country a disservice.

[DarrinS]

Please...as stated in other threads..this killer had political views. Some of them reflect what old Rand Pauls dad has been espousing about money.

http://www.redstate.com/neil_stevens/files/2009/09/doublefacepalm.jpg

[Yonivore]

Murder is not a political act. It transcends political discourse, and is only wielded by those who cant conform to civilzed society under any set of circumstances.

If you are going to tie this murder to politics, than you will have no trouble tying other killings to Ozzy Osbourne and Marilyn Manson.

And all these comparisons are deceptive, shallow, fraudulent, and ultimately they do the country a disservice.
I disagree...

Most political murders/assassins are motivated by a political ideology. That nut that took the hostages at the Discovery Channel prattled on about Al Gore's inconvenient truth.

The Puerto Rican separatists that shot up the House Chamber back in the fifties were motivated by politics.

The list is long.

And, all you have to do is look at pop culture and fashion to know that movie, music, and celebrity have an influence on people.

There is just absolutely no evidence this crime was motivated by any political ideology. All signs point to mental illness.

[DarrinS]

This guy was a 9/11 twoofer and had The Communist Manifesto on his Oprah book club list. That doesn't lead me to believe these leftist views caused him to go on a murderous rampage.


Dude obviously had some obsession with Giffords.

[BlairForceDejuan]

Please...as stated in other threads..this killer had political views. Some of them reflect what old Rand Pauls dad has been espousing about money.

Funny who else shared those same views.

[redskinfan]

....I don't believe for 1 minute this nut did not hear Glenn Beck daily and didn't watch Fox news!

[Wild Cobra]

And, as stated in other threads, there is no shred of proof his "political views," such as they may have been, played any role in his decision to attempt to assassinate Congresswoman Giffords.

I will contend that he was not a tea party member or conservative. Simply because everyone who i have ever encountered, that believed in such corny conspiracies, were either loony left, or leftist libertarian, or of some other influence that keeps them from having enough conservative views.

[boutons_deux]

being anti-govt and talking about the govt controlling grammar is political, if not officially registered as Repug or Dem party member/voter.

being anti-govt is inarguably in agreement with Repug and tea bagger "philosophy" of "GOVT IS THE PROBLEM" and "shrink the govt to drown (destroy) in a bath-tub.

Sorry, motherfuckers, this Jew-Dem-female-murdering political terrorist belongs to You People.

When life hands you shit, eat it.

[clambake]

there are only 2 things known to be certain:

1. he went on a killing spree

2. at a democratic rally filled with democrats.

[BlairForceDejuan]

there are only 2 things known to be certain:

1. he went on a killing spree

2. at a democratic rally filled with democrats.

Yes it was horrible. I too remember the harsh words progressives had for blue dogs.

[clambake]

Yes it was horrible. I too remember the harsh words progressives had for blue dogs.

i'd like to hear about this happening in tucson.

care to expand?

[Yonivore]

Judge Roll was a Republican.

Who said there weren't Republican constituents in the crowd.

So, really Clambake only knows one thing...and, he has a tenuous grasp on that.

[clambake]

Judge Roll was a Republican.

Who said there weren't Republican constituents in the crowd.

So, really Clambake only knows one thing...and, he has a tenuous grasp on that.

you too?

guy goes on killing spree at democratic rally.


is that correct?

[Yonivore]

you too?

guy goes on killing spree at democratic rally.


is that correct?
Congress on your Corner wasn't a "Democratic Rally." It was a constituent forum for Representative Giffords' district -- comprised of Democrats, Republicans, and anyone else she represented.

Are you suggesting Congresswoman Giffords doesn't represent or isn't interested in the views of anyone but her Democrat constituents?

I don't see her that way.

While I vehemently disagree with her position on a whole lot of issues, Obamacare being chief among them, she was pro-second amendment and shared many of my views on immigration.

I wouldn't be surprised to find her positions on those issues were informed by conservative members of her district. She seemed pretty accessible to everyone and, as is being told, was well liked on both sides of the aisle.

Not everyone thinks in partisan terms.

[baseline bum]

Not everyone thinks in partisan terms.

:lmao

[clambake]

:lol too insecure to be honest.

[Yonivore]

:lol too insecure to be honest.
So, you're disrespecting Congresswoman Giffords by claiming she didn't care about the views of anyone other than her Democrat constituents?

[clambake]

So, you're disrespecting Congresswoman Giffords by claiming she didn't care about the views of anyone other than her Democrat constituents?

:lmao you didn't have to come back while you run away from the question.

[Yonivore]

:lmao you didn't have to come back while you run away from the question.
What question?

[clambake]

guy goes on killing spree at democratic rally.


is that correct?

[Yonivore]

you too?

guy goes on killing spree...
Correct.


...at democratic rally.
Incorrect and, I did answer that question.

[clambake]

Correct.


Incorrect and, I did answer that question.

your answer is incorrect. it was a democratic rally.

you had no problem telling us how you feel about black people, but you don't have the courage to be truthful about this?

[Yonivore]

your answer is incorrect. it was a democratic rally.

you had no problem telling us how you feel about black people, but you don't have the courage to be truthful about this?
You've yet to answer my question.

[clambake]

give us the names of the republican politicians that were to speak at the rally.

[Yonivore]

give us the names of the republican politicians that were to speak at the rally.
You've yet to answer my question.

And, another; Can you define "rally?"

[clambake]

you didn't ask a question. you simply lied about the rally. you said it was bi-partisan, yet you can't tell us about the republican politicians that attended. (cuz there were none)

[Yonivore]

give us the names of the republican politicians that were to speak at the rally.
It was a constituent forum -- to my knowledge -- Congresswoman Giffords was there to meet and have a dialogue with those she represents. I don't know that their was an agenda or scheduled speakers.

Do you know otherwise?

[clambake]

It was a constituent forum -- to my knowledge -- Congresswoman Giffords was there to meet and have a dialogue with those she represents. I don't know that their was an agenda or scheduled speakers.

Do you know otherwise?

yep, i know it was a democratic rally. you appear to be the only person that doesn't.

[Yonivore]

you didn't ask a question. you simply lied about the rally. you said it was bi-partisan, yet you can't tell us about the republican politicians that attended. (cuz there were none)
So, you're disrespecting Congresswoman Giffords by claiming she didn't care about the views of anyone other than her Democrat constituents?

That's called a question.

I never said it was bi-partisan. I said it was a constituent forum. Her district isn't exclusively Democrat.

[clambake]

So, you're disrespecting Congresswoman Giffords by claiming she didn't care about the views of anyone other than her Democrat constituents?
tell me when i said that. be specific.


That's called a question.
nope, its an allegation in a shitty form of a question.


I never said it was bi-partisan. I said it was a constituent forum. Her district isn't exclusively Democrat.
why haven't we heard from all the republicans attending?

[Yonivore]

tell me when i said that. be specific.
You called it a Democratic Rally when the Congresswoman's office clearly called it a "Congress on your Corner" constituent forum. Your characterization implies she excluded non-Democrat constituents from her event. Theirs does not.

I'd say that was disrespectful.


nope, its an allegation in a shitty form of a question.
Or, you could have just called it what it was, a rhetorical question. So, and this is the real question, is the Congresswoman's staff lying about the purpose of that event?


why haven't we heard from all the republicans attending?
One of them is dead and unavailable to call you. Plus, I'm not sure you're in their Rolodex...maybe you should call the Tucson media and let them know you're expecting a roster of attendees and their party affiliations.

[clambake]

You called it a Democratic Rally when the Congresswoman's office clearly called it a "Congress on your Corner" constituent forum. Your characterization implies she excluded non-Democrat constituents from her event. Theirs does not.
show me where i said she excluded anyone. anyone. why have you failed to do this?


I'd say that was disrespectful.
yep, you shouldn't make up things like that. i guess its better than stealing others words, however.



Or, you could have just called it what it was, a rhetorical question. So, and this is the real question, is the Congresswoman's staff lying about the purpose of that event?
what would she be lying about?




One of them is dead and unavailable to call you. Plus, I'm not sure you're in their Rolodex...maybe you should call the Tucson media and let them know you're expecting a roster of attendees and their party affiliations.
why don't you just tell us about all these republicans eyewitness statements?

or don't you have any?

[clambake]

sorry yoni, that last question wasn't fair.

if there were any, fox would be running it on a loop.

[DMX7]

Rand Paul wishes this kid were black.

[Winehole23]

...petered out

[SnakeBoy]

It's obvious he had political views.

Really? Here's Jared in his own words. Can you tell me what his political views were because all I hear are the incoherent thoughts of a paraniod schizophrenic.

ZPZpE4WSEDY

[Yonivore]

It's obvious he had political views.
It's not obvious, at all. But, even if he did, where's your evidence those view animated his actions last week?

And, then, where's your evidence those views were informed by the SaraPAC ad, Ms. Palin, specifically, or anyone else in the Tea Party?

[Duff McCartney]

It's not obvious, at all. But, even if he did, where's your evidence those view animated his actions last week?

And, then, where's your evidence those views were informed by the SaraPAC ad, Ms. Palin, specifically, or anyone else in the Tea Party?

When did I ever say it did? I just think it's untrue to paint this guy as being apolitical when his views say other wise.

[ChumpDumper]

And, all you have to do is look at pop culture and fashion to know that movie, music, and celebrity have an influence on people.But political speech never can, right?

Hypocrite.

[Yonivore]

When did I ever say it did? I just think it's untrue to paint this guy as being apolitical when his views say other wise.
I never suggested he was apolitical, although he may be; what I've said is there is absolutely no shred of proof his political views -- whatever they may or may not be -- had anything to do with his actions on Saturday. Period.

And, as such, the non-stop media barrage, fueled by Dupnik, et. al., that somehow the massacre was related to, or caused by, any alleged vitriolic and rancorous political missives of the Tea Party or Sarah Palin are either libelous or opportunistic. Take your pick because, it's one of the two.

They can't of been mistaken; otherwise, they would have acceded to the growing and overwhelming evidence that Loughner acted out of mental illness and stopped the unfounded assertions. They didn't. Hell, there are still people in here that pretend his actions had something to do with politics.

That's what I've been saying. That's what everyone who recognizes the pathetic, yet concerted, effort of the left to libel the Tea Party, has been saying for the past week.

[Duff McCartney]

I never suggested he was apolitical, although he may be; what I've said is there is absolutely no shred of proof his political views -- whatever they may or may not be -- had anything to do with his actions on Saturday. Period.

And, as such, the non-stop media barrage, fueled by Dupnik, et. al., that somehow the massacre was related to, or caused by, any alleged vitriolic and rancorous political missives of the Tea Party or Sarah Palin are either libelous or opportunistic. Take your pick because, it's one of the two.

They can't of been mistaken; otherwise, they would have acceded to the growing and overwhelming evidence that Loughner acted out of mental illness and stopped the unfounded assertions. They didn't. Hell, there are still people in here that pretend his actions had something to do with politics.

That's what I've been saying. That's what everyone who recognizes the pathetic, yet concerted, effort of the left to libel the Tea Party, has been saying for the past week.

To me I think you're both wrong. Whatever any leftist says that the Tea Party is to blame, and you for generalizing the entire left as slandering the Tea Party.

To be fair I'm a devout liberal, but I haven't accused a single Tea Party member of being responsible for any of what happened. Do I belittle Sarah Palin? Absolutely. But that's different from making her responsible for any of this.

However I do agree with a majority of what people on both sides of the political spectrum have been saying, and most of those have been liberals, that we need to tone down the vitriol on both sides. I do not agree, and this is where I mock Sarah Palin and others like her, that toning down the vitriol is somehow code word for censoring conservative thought. I think it's stupid for people like her or any leader to act and speak as though the end is nigh and soon we'll need to load up our guns and take action.

She may not say it in so many words, but her tone and the tone of others on both sides reflect that idea.

[BlairForceDejuan]

phaggot should have just stfu, done his homework, and paid people in gold bullions. It really is amazing he did not shoot up that school.