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Booharv
01-15-2011, 02:25 PM
Why Big Ben measures up to Brady
The Pittsburgh quarterback has excelled in a more explosive offense
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By KC Joyner
ESPN Insider
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Jason Bridge/US Presswire
Ben Roethlisberger could tie Tom Brady with three championships this year.
By the end of the 1977 NFL season, Pittsburgh Steelers star Terry Bradshaw could have had every reason in the world to feel like the world's most overlooked quarterback.

Over the previous six years, he had posted a stellar 49-17 regular-season record and an equally impressive 8-4 postseason mark. Two of those playoff wins were Super Bowl victories and in both of those contests he threw a fourth-quarter touchdown pass that helped seal the win for the Steelers.

Despite this abundance of success, Bradshaw still seemingly had not convinced the world he was among the best at his position. Proof of this can be found in the 1977 All-Pro and Pro Bowl voting.

Bradshaw had guided his team to a 9-5 record and the AFC Central Division title and yet was beaten out for those postseason honors not just by the likes of Bob Griese and Roger Staubach (the consensus choices as the top quarterbacks of that season), but also by lesser talents such as Pat Haden and Jim Hart.

Near the end of the 2010 season, Ben Roethlisberger could be in exactly the same kind of overlooked boat as his Black and Gold predecessor. Like Bradshaw, he has a superb regular-season record (69-29, a .704 win percentage that is third-best of any quarterback since 1970) and a dominant 8-2 postseason mark that includes two Super Bowl titles.

Also like Bradshaw, Roethlisberger is coming off a campaign where his team went 9-3 with him under center and won a hard-fought division title. Still, it wasn't enough for him to be named one of the six quarterbacks going to the Pro Bowl.

While that certainly doesn't seem fair on its face, what makes it even more unjust is that a closer look at the game tape and metrics shows that Big Ben was just as good this season as AFC Pro Bowl starter -- and all but certain 2010 NFL MVP -- Tom Brady.


A closer look at the game tape and metrics shows that Big Ben was just as good this season as AFC Pro Bowl starter -- and all but certain 2010 NFL MVP -- Tom Brady.
There are three metric areas that work best to illustrate this:

The first is the short pass yards per attempt metric (YPA) (a short pass being one thrown 10 yards or less from the line of scrimmage). Brady's 7.0 YPA total here is excellent, but Roethlisberger's 7.5 YPA is a bit better. One could almost call this a push.

Second on the list is vertical YPA (vertical being defined as a pass thrown 11 or more yards downfield). Brady posted an 11.6 YPA mark, but that was nearly equaled by Roethlisberger's 11.4 YPA. Again, pretty much a push.

Third is bad decision percentage (a bad decision defined as when a quarterback makes a mistake with the ball that leads either to a turnover or a near-turnover such a dropped interception). Brady has always excelled here and his 1.3 percent mark this year meets his historically high standards. Although it tops Roethlisberger's 2.0 percent total, and should seemingly give Brady a significant statistical edge, two things need to be noted here.

First, seven-tenths of a percentage point over the course of a 500-attempt season (which is roughly the attempt pace that both Brady and Roethlisberger were on this year, if Roethlisberger's attempt total was pro-rated over a 16-game schedule) equals between three and four extra bad decisions. In other words, an extra mistake by Roethlisberger every four to five games.

Now consider that Roethlisberger and Brady play in offenses that have markedly different passing philosophies. The New England Patriots switched to a dink-and-dunk offense this year and that led to 70.7 percent of Brady's throws occurring at the short-pass depth level.

To put 70.7 percent into perspective, consider that when Matt Cassel filled in for the injured Brady for almost the entire 2008 season, short passes accounted for only 65.3 percent of New England's pass attempts. The Patriots' brain trust scaled things back dramatically for Cassel and yet they still dink and dunked it more this year than they did that season.

Now contrast those figures to Roethlisberger's 55.9 percent short pass total. This indicates that the Steelers' offense is absolutely not short-pass centric, but the contrast becomes even easier to see when comparing the vertical pass percentages for each quarterback. Roethlisberger's vertical throws accounted for 37.4 percent of his attempts versus 26.8 percent of Brady's.

In other words, Roethlisberger is piloting a high-risk/high-reward offense. A solid bad decision rate for a quarterback of that nature would be in the 2.5-to-3 percent range and Roethlisberger's 2.0 percent total is well below that. Brady's 1.3 percent mark is just as superb (a 2.0 percent total is considered good for dink/dunk offenses) but when this context is applied, it is clear that his lead in this metric is fairly negligible at best.

And that's the story with pretty much any measurement one can come up with to compare Roethlisberger and Brady both for this season and their careers. The biggest exception to this might be that Brady has three Super Bowl rings to Roethlisberger's two, but the second-biggest exception is that Roethlisberger is 4½ years younger -- he has a lot more time to make up the title gap than Brady has to extend it.

It also could mean that Roethlisberger has a chance to mimic Bradshaw in one other important way. As overlooked as the Blond Bomber was in 1977, after he piloted his team to two more Super Bowl wins, he finally received his due by being named the first-string quarterback on the NFL's All-Decade Team of the 1970s.

The timing of Roethlisberger's career means that he won't have a chance to beat out Brady for All-Decade honors, but if he guides the Steelers to a Super Bowl this season and ties Brady in the championship rings category, his odds of eventually surpassing Brady as the No. 1 quarterback of this generation are actually quite good.


KC Joyner, aka the Football Scientist, is a regular contributor to ESPN Insider. He also can be found on Twitter @kcjoynertfs and at his website. He is the author of "Blindsided: Why the Left Tackle is Overrated and Other Contrarian Football Thoughts."

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2010/insider/columns/story?columnist=joyner_kc&id=6011130

Booharv
01-15-2011, 02:26 PM
The title of this thread is what it said on the tab in my browser.

Warlord23
01-15-2011, 03:05 PM
Even most Steelers fans will tell you this is a reach. Statistically the win-loss record is a product of the top-3 D that the Steelers trot out year after year. The passing metrics are actually surprisingly good and overlooked by many.

Ben has finished in the top 5 in the league in QB rating 5 years out of his 7 year career. Over the same period, by comparison, Peyton Manning has finished in the top five 5 times, Brees 4 times, Rivers 3 times, and Brady only twice. So consistency-wise, Roethlisberger has been easily a top 5 QB over the last 7 years.

However, the difference comes out when you watch the games. Brady at his peak can demolish a defense with unerring accuracy. Manning is the best play-caller at the line of scrimmage, and is the toughest to fool. Ben doesn't have the same in-game impact as these two.

However, there's no shame in falling short of Manning and Brady, the two best QBs of this generation. Ben does what the Steelers need him to do, which is to play behind a shaky OL and get the job done and be clutch as hell in close games.

JoeTait75
01-15-2011, 03:27 PM
However, the difference comes out when you watch the games. Brady at his peak can demolish a defense with unerring accuracy. Manning is the best play-caller at the line of scrimmage, and is the toughest to fool. Ben doesn't have the same in-game impact as these two.

Ben does have a dimension Brady and Manning don't. He isn't the pure passer those two are (Flacco is also a better pure passer within the division, IMO) but he's better at turning broken plays into big plays with his mobility and strength. With his size, strength and speed Ben can turn a potential sack into a 50-yard pass play. He extends plays as well as anyone not named Michael Vick.

Best way to look at Ben's caliber is to simply look at Pittsburgh's track record before and after he joined the team. The Steelers ran the ball and stopped the ball for years before he got there and couldn't win a Super Bowl. They've won two since he got there.

Warlord23
01-15-2011, 03:29 PM
Ben does have a dimension Brady and Manning don't. He isn't the pure passer those two are (Flacco is also a better pure passer within the division, IMO) but he's better at turning broken plays into big plays with his mobility and strength. With his size, strength and speed Ben can turn a potential sack into a 50-yard pass play. He extends plays as well as anyone not named Michael Vick.

Best way to look at Ben's caliber is to simply look at Pittsburgh's track record before and after he joined the team. The Steelers ran the ball and stopped the ball for years before he got there and couldn't win a Super Bowl. They've won two since he got there.

:tu

DeadlyDynasty
01-15-2011, 03:32 PM
Ben does have a dimension Brady and Manning don't. He isn't the pure passer those two are (Flacco is also a better pure passer within the division, IMO) but he's better at turning broken plays into big plays with his mobility and strength. With his size, strength and speed Ben can turn a potential sack into a 50-yard pass play. He extends plays as well as anyone not named Michael Vick.

Best way to look at Ben's caliber is to simply look at Pittsburgh's track record before and after he joined the team. The Steelers ran the ball and stopped the ball for years before he got there and couldn't win a Super Bowl. They've won two since he got there.

Excellent post.

Echoing your point, it's astonishing to think that a team predicated on defense and running the football has had their last 2 SB MVPs be wideouts. Furthermore, I'm not sure any other QB would've led those Steeler teams to SBs, especially since the Steeler O-line has been pretty shoddy in pass protection for a few years now. His ability to improvise when a play breaks down is almost second-to-none. He's a shithead of a human being but the dude is a gamer.

JoeTait75
01-15-2011, 03:38 PM
Furthermore, I'm not sure any other QB would've led those Steeler teams to SBs, especially since the Steeler O-line has been pretty shoddy in pass protection for a few years now.

I don't think Pittsburgh's teams w/Ben are any better than their teams w/O'Donnell and Kordell. You could argue the earlier teams were actually better, especially on the offensive line.

They were bringing a knife to a gunfight at the quarterback position in those big games, though. Kordell Stewart vs. John Elway...

Of course you could also argue that Ben is at fault on a lot of his sacks. He holds the ball a long time. That's the flip side of the extended plays; sometimes he extends them into losses.

Warlord23
01-15-2011, 03:45 PM
Yup, it's maddening sometimes when he doesn't throw the ball away even when the pocket completely collapses, but it's not a bad price to pay given that he is able to make something out of nothing every now and then.

Good point about the pre-Ben teams. Kordell Stewart and Tommy Maddox always got the fanbase's hopes up only to deceive in the end. In the modern NFL, if you don't have a QB that can figure it out on the big stage vs good teams, you're not going to win period.

DeadlyDynasty
01-15-2011, 03:46 PM
I don't think Pittsburgh's teams w/Ben are any better than their teams w/O'Donnell and Kordell. You could argue the earlier teams were actually better, especially on the offensive line.

They were bringing a knife to a gunfight at the quarterback position in those big games, though. Kordell Stewart vs. John Elway...

Of course you could also argue that Ben is at fault on a lot of his sacks. He holds the ball a long time. That's the flip side of the extended plays; sometimes he extends them into losses.

That's true. When I lived in Pitt the last 2 years fans on talk radio would get so pissed at Ben for holding onto the ball. :lol

As far as the early 90's teams, they were beast and also stacked with talent (except at the QB spot). Not to be a conspiracy theorist, but to this day Superbowl 30 is fishy to me...O'Donnell throwing it right to Larry Brown reeked of a fix. Maybe Neil was just THAT bad, but I can't be the only person who thought that looked odd

crc21209
01-15-2011, 04:57 PM
I don't think he's THAT great....come on now.

Greg Oden
01-15-2011, 05:31 PM
Ben does have a dimension Brady and Manning don't. He isn't the pure passer those two are (Flacco is also a better pure passer within the division, IMO) but he's better at turning broken plays into big plays with his mobility and strength. With his size, strength and speed Ben can turn a potential sack into a 50-yard pass play. He extends plays as well as anyone not named Michael Vick.

Best way to look at Ben's caliber is to simply look at Pittsburgh's track record before and after he joined the team. The Steelers ran the ball and stopped the ball for years before he got there and couldn't win a Super Bowl. They've won two since he got there.


and for every broken play he turns into something, there's an example of his fumbling at the Steelers' own 10 due to holding on to the ball for so long unnecessarily.

Booharv
02-10-2011, 11:22 AM
Bump

Phillip
02-10-2011, 12:00 PM
and for every broken play he turns into something, there's an example of his fumbling at the Steelers' own 10 due to holding on to the ball for so long unnecessarily.

+1

big ben is the king of big plays, both good and bad.

actually i think i might take that back, as he comes slightly behind Jay Cutler, and maybe Joe Wacko in terms of bad big plays.

4>0rings
02-10-2011, 12:14 PM
Be honest, on the last drive you thought Ben was going to make it happen. Every Packer/Steeler fan knew there was a good chance. :lol

bostonguy
02-10-2011, 12:22 PM
Is Ben clutch? Certainly. The guy is a pretty good qb and his presence certainly makes an impact. I'd take him over alot of qbs. That being said, he isn't the top qb of this generation. That goes to Peyton Manning and Tom Brady.

lefty
02-10-2011, 12:28 PM
I remember during the 1st SB, he turned the ball over, then followed it up with a nice defensive play

Blake
02-10-2011, 12:42 PM
but if he guides the Steelers to a Super Bowl this season and ties Brady in the championship rings category, his odds of eventually surpassing Brady as the No. 1 quarterback of this generation are actually quite good.

even if he had won this year, that's bullshit.

6 of the 12 games that Ben started this year, the Steeler D held their opponents to 10 points or less.

It makes it that much easier to go 9-3 as the starting QB.