This

[DMC]

mGKMOT8yDH4

Can we get this guy back into the lineup?

What a freak this guy was. I remember him then, we took it for granted because there were so many great centers then, but what a guy like this would do for a team today is unbelievable.

[Hemotivo]

what a player

[itzsoweezee]

So much better than Olajawon. Not even close.

It's a pity he played most of his career surrounded by scrubs.

[DeadlyDynasty]

So much better than Olajawon. Not even close.

GROmHUgIu2U

[ShoogarBear]

-lol Benoit Benjamin
-Amar'e can only dream about doing those things.
-The only better defensive center was probably Bill Russell.
-Even as late as 2002, DRob was stlll a better defender than Tim.

[DeadlyDynasty]

-lol Benoit Benjamin
-Amar'e can only dream about doing those things.
-The only better defensive center was probably Bill Russell.
-Even as late as 2002, DRob was stlll a better defender than Tim.

How did Olajuwon get 2 DPOY's and D-Rob only 1?

[ShoogarBear]

How did Olajuwon get 2 DPOY's and D-Rob only 1?

How did Ben Wallace get 4 and Tim Duncan get none?

How did Mark Eaton and Marcus Camby get any?

[DeadlyDynasty]

How did Ben Wallace get 4 and Tim Duncan get none?

How did Mark Eaton and Marcus Camby get any?

Didn't Ben avg more blocks and rebounds in those years he won? and like Tim, he was his team's defensive anchor.

I agree on Camby and Eaton, but comparing them to Olajuwon's successes is ignorant, tbh

[Blackjack]

One thing I always loved about some of Dave's dunks were their contradictions.

He'd put some flash on 'em -- a little windmill, a pump, a change of hands -- but as soon as he flushed it, the head went down and he looked as if he didn't want you to think we saw what we just witnessed. It was almost as if he was sneaking in a little fun in while trying to avoid being reprimanded by an officer or tying to show-off without showing anyone up. :lol

[Blackjack]

How did Duncan get 2 MVPs and Kobe only 1?


How did Duncan get 3 Finals MVPs and Kobe only 2?

[Booharv]

Olajuwon was way better than Robinson tbh. He's the second best player I've ever seen next to Jordan. Still he was way, way better than Kobe, so there's no need for laker fan to talk shit.

[DMC]

One thing I always loved about some of Dave's dunks were their contradictions.

He'd put some flash on 'em -- a little windmill, a pump, a change of hands -- but as soon as he flushed it, the head went down and he looked as if he didn't want you to think we saw what we just witnessed. It was almost as if he was sneaking in a little fun in while trying to avoid being reprimanded by an officer or tying to show-off without showing anyone up. :lol
Dave always had that song going on in his head and you could see it in his movements after he dunked. I am not sure what the song was, surely a gospel one, but it was funky and he would not be able to hide it.

[ShoogarBear]

Didn't Ben avg more blocks and rebounds in those years he won? and like Tim, he was his team's defensive anchor.
Ah, so blocks + rebounds = DPOY? Got it. Ignore the fact the Duncan was a much better anchor as born out by team defensie


I agree on Camby and Eaton, but comparing them to Olajuwon's successes is ignorant, tbh

It pales in comparison to the ignorance of comparing number of DPOY awards.

[Blackjack]

No, he wasn't, actually. I'd agree he had a more dominate peak but he was not a much better player than Robinson.

Had David Robinson been coached by this Gregg Popovich then, there's no way in hell people would have come to that conclusion. Bob Hill doesn't get nearly enough credit for the Houston series that has tainted the minds of many as to how Robinson and Olajuwon truly compared.

[Cane]

A damn shame that a young D-Rob was surrounded by guys like Vinny Del Negro and that the Spurs fumbled on Glen Rice...but prayers were answered with the arrival of Duncan.

The young NBA bigs today are nearly pathetic by comparison compared to D-Rob and his peers.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Who brought up Kobe? This was about Admiral vs. Dream, and furthermore...defensive big men

[DMC]

So much better than Olajawon. Not even close.

It's a pity he played most of his career surrounded by scrubs.
Not for a while. Hakeem was like a freaking 7' PG. He had moves and savvy that I have not seen before or since.

[Blackjack]

Who brought up Kobe? This was about Admiral vs. Dream, and furthermore...defensive big men

Just a poor troll, the 2 to 1 comparison.

That's all . . .

[DMC]

A damn shame that a young D-Rob was surrounded by guys like Vinny Del Negro and that the Spurs fumbled on Glen Rice...but prayers were answered with the arrival of Duncan.

The young NBA bigs today are nearly pathetic by comparison compared to D-Rob and his peers.
Nearly? Outside of Howard, who would be near the bottom among those giants like Ewing, Hakeem, David and Shaq (and Ralph Sampson), what center would even pose a challenge? Darko? Bogut? Hardly.

[DeadlyDynasty]

It pales in comparison to the ignorance of comparing number of DPOY awards.

Are you that blind of a Spurs homer? The Dream averaged more rebounds, blocks, and steals than D-Rob. He has 2 DPOY's to D-Rob's 1.

Do you have any empirical evidence to prove D-Rob was better?

Here come the Hollinger minions...:rollin

[Booharv]

The point is its no shame to be worse than Olajuwon, Kobe's never been able to sniff his jock, but he's had a fine career nonetheless. Same for Robinson.

[DMC]

A damn shame that a young D-Rob was surrounded by guys like Vinny Del Negro and that the Spurs fumbled on Glen Rice...but prayers were answered with the arrival of Duncan.

The young NBA bigs today are nearly pathetic by comparison compared to D-Rob and his peers.
There are a number of greats that were held back by their draft team. KG comes to mind...

[DeadlyDynasty]

lol people comparing Duncan's game to Kobe's game for no reason. That's like comparing Bill Russell to Jerry West...and you guys claim to be knowledgeable :lol

[Blackjack]

Nearly? Outside of Howard, who would be near the bottom among those giants like Ewing, Hakeem, David and Shaq (and Ralph Sampson), what center would even pose a challenge? Darko? Bogut? Hardly.

Not sure if I'm unable to comprehend the sarcasm or if you're answering someone else's question. :huh

[DeadlyDynasty]

I provide statistical and visual evidence that Hakeem was better than David, and I get flamed. Don't get angry guys, Hakeem was just better. Life goes on.

Stay classy, Spurfan :toast

[DMC]

Not sure if I'm unable to comprehend the sarcasm or if you're answering someone else's question. :huh

Yep, I thought I quoted Cane.

Fixed.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Off to watch the Ravens game, hope you guys gained a fresh perspective on the D-Rob-Hakeem matter :toast

[Blackjack]

lol people comparing Duncan's game to Kobe's game for no reason. That's like comparing Bill Russell to Jerry West...and you guys claim to be knowledgeable :lol

No one did. I don't have a problem with anyone making the argument that Olajuwon deserves to rank above Robinson in the all-time hierarchy -- I believe he had the more dominant peak and deserves such respect. But the separation isn't nearly as great as it's been made out to be, largely on account of one playoff series -- one that wasn't decided by some one-on-one matchup played in a vacuum (see: Hill, Bob; Rodman, Dennis).

[Cessation]

olajuwon > drob

[Mel_13]

Off to watch the Ravens game, hope you guys gained a fresh perspective on the D-Rob-Hakeem matter :toast

:lol

Captain Pyrite declaring victory and taking his leave.

[ShoogarBear]

Are you that blind of a Spurs homer? The Dream averaged more rebounds, blocks, and steals than D-Rob. He has 2 DPOY's to D-Rob's 1.

Do you have any empirical evidence to prove D-Rob was better?

Here come the Hollinger minions...:rollin

It's going to be tough to have a discussion with someone who understands the game so superficially as to think that defense = stats.

I actually watched both of their entire careers, Robinson, despite inferior teammates, made his team better defensively. This doesn't take away from how good Olajuwon was.

[awktalk]

mGKMOT8yDH4

Can we get this guy back into the lineup?

What a freak this guy was. I remember him then, we took it for granted because there were so many great centers then, but what a guy like this would do for a team today is unbelievable.

Whoever that "Admiral" guy is reminds me of a black Tiago Splitter.

[mazerrackham]

I provide statistical and visual evidence that Hakeem was better than David, and I get flamed. Don't get angry guys, Hakeem was just better. Life goes on.

Stay classy, Spurfan :toast

You're pretty good about debating for a Laker fan, and I enjoy many of your posts but you get defensive too easily. You should let people that respond to you without debating with what they deserve: ignoring. Its always a shame when a debate turns into flaming and bashing.

[ShoogarBear]

No one did. I don't have a problem with anyone making the argument that Olajuwon deserves to rank above Robinson in the all-time hierarchy -- I believe he had the more dominant peak and deserves such respect. But the separation isn't nearly as great as it's been made out to be, largely on account of one playoff series -- one that wasn't decided by some one-on-one matchup played in a vacuum (see: Hill, Bob; Rodman, Dennis).

The problem is this discussion wasn't about the 95 series, or whether Drob > Olajuwon. There are legitimate reasons to say that at their most dominant, Olajuwon was better.

The original question was strictly on the basis of defense. On that, I still contend Robinson was better.

[DMC]

Whoever that "Admiral" guy is reminds me of a black Tiago Splitter.
Did you know a black Tiago? If not, how can you be reminded of one?

[DMC]

Off to watch the Ravens game, hope you guys gained a fresh perspective on the D-Rob-Hakeem matter :toast
That looks like a big green penis with legs in your avatar. Is that intentional?

[Blackjack]

The problem is this discussion wasn't about the 95 series, or whether Drob > Olajuwon. There are legitimate reasons to say that at their most dominant, Olajuwon was better.

The original question was strictly on the basis of defense. On that, I still contend Robinson was better.

Tough call. I'd definitely agree what Robinson accomplished defensively -- what he made his team accomplish defensively as a direct result of -- was more impressive. It's hard for me to believe that anyone speculating on the subject without experiencing all or the vast majority of D-Rob's career (his supporting cast) can truly appreciate or comprehend how indispensable and valuable he was to his team.

Olajuwon's agility on both ends was ridiculous. I think that's the only real area where I think he had an edge. He was just a more fluid and coordinated athlete -- not to say Dave was a slouch or anything, just a tribute to how gifted Olajuwon was in that respect. In some ways, it's a little like the TD-KG defensive comparison -- the versatility vis a vis a more prototypical defensive team anchor; Olajuwon was obviously a much better shot blocker than KG and Dave was a more versatile athlete than Tim being the main differences.

There's definitely an argument to be made for Dave. Like I said, tough call . . .


R.I.P. whottt. ... The debate doesn't seem the same without you.

[spurs10]

How did Olajuwon get 2 DPOY's and D-Rob only 1?
Olajuwon was absolutely incredible, as was Mr.Robinson...two of the best to ever play the game. :toast

[ShoogarBear]

Tough call. I'd definitely agree what Robinson accomplished defensively -- what he made his team accomplish defensively as a direct result of -- was more impressive. It's hard for me to believe that anyone speculating on the subject without experiencing all or the vast majority of D-Rob's career (his supporting cast) can truly appreciate or comprehend how indispensable and valuable he was to his team.
Which is why input from Laker Fan who can't name a player before Kobe should be easily discounted.


R.I.P. whottt. ... The debate doesn't seem the same without you.

Indeed.

[Waps1980]

Dream>Robinson 1on1 most of the time, but look at the entire season Robinson would have had other centers he crushed that the dream didn't play so well on and the dream had centers he crushed that Robinson didn't play so well on.

There stats are so close you can't pick a winner.
Robinson had a better shooting % that's about it

[jjktkk]

Hakeem was one of the best post players ever. That was DROB's one weakness, lack of a true post up game.

[jjktkk]

Wilt was the better defender out of him and Russell, so Robinson was probably third best center defender.

Shocked to hear you say Wilt was a better defender than Russell. Disagree, Russell was a better defender than Chamberlain.

[DMC]

Nah, neither of them had any blocks... :)

[Cant_Be_Faded]

How fun would young David Robinson going against Blake Griffin be to watch?

[ohmwrecker]

Wilt blocked more shots than Russell. And Wilt was more mobile than most guards which made is easy for him to guard any player on the court, although he mostly defended inside. Both Russell and Chamberlain were better athletes than Robinson, although Russell was smaller.

Jeez . . . that's pretty tough to quantify . . . all three of those guys were stupendous athletes for their size. Wilt and Dave almost freakishly so.

[DMC]

How fun would young David Robinson going against Blake Griffin be to watch?
Dave against Howard. I would pay good money for that.

[ButtHurt Committee]

Only thing I remember about that scrub was him getting his dick knocked in the dirt. I heard he was gay, too.

http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab138/lakaluva58/19773.jpg
http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab138/lakaluva58/210irr9.jpg

[ChuckD]

Wilt blocked more shots than Russell. And Wilt was more mobile than most guards which made is easy for him to guard any player on the court, although he mostly defended inside. Both Russell and Chamberlain were better athletes than Robinson, although Russell was smaller.

That's actually unknowable since the NBA didn't keep that stat during their careers.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Which is why input from Laker Fan who can't name a player before Kobe should be easily discounted.



Indeed.

You're right...Laker basketball ceased to exist before Kobe Bryant. Sick burn, brah.

[Mel_13]

You're right...Laker basketball ceased to exist before Kobe Bryant. Sick burn, brah.

To be precise, he didn't imply that Laker basketball didn't exist before Kobe, merely that you're ignorant of anything before KB's arrival in LA.

[DMC]

It was probably Shaq's arrival, as prior to that Kobe was coming off the bench I do believe.

[DeadlyDynasty]

yeah... in your face deadlydynasty...retard

:lol BUMP you've infiltrated pretty deep into the main board this time

[DeadlyDynasty]

To be precise, he didn't imply that Laker basketball didn't exist before Kobe, merely that you're ignorant of anything before KB's arrival in LA.

I'm flattered, tbh...usually Spurfan only dates Laker fandom back to 02/01/2008. He's behind the times with his bandwagon burns, tbh.

[DeadlyDynasty]

No one did. I don't have a problem with anyone making the argument that Olajuwon deserves to rank above Robinson in the all-time hierarchy -- I believe he had the more dominant peak and deserves such respect. But the separation isn't nearly as great as it's been made out to be, largely on account of one playoff series -- one that wasn't decided by some one-on-one matchup played in a vacuum (see: Hill, Bob; Rodman, Dennis).

I never claimed there was "great separation" between the 2. D-Rob was great, Hakeem was better.

[Blackjack]

I never claimed there was "great separation" between the 2. D-Rob was great, Hakeem was better.

"Well I don't have a problem with you believing that."

[DeadlyDynasty]

"Well I don't have a problem with you believing that."

I don't have a problem with people believing in an invisible man that watches over us...I just prefer to believe in what can be seen and proven.

[Blackjack]

I don't have a problem with people believing in an invisible man that watches over us...I just prefer to believe in what can be seen and proven.

Omnipotence has its benefits . . .

[DeadlyDynasty]

Omnipotence has its benefits . . .

touche, salesman

[Blackjack]

Omnipotence ain't a sell, my man. It's just how I roll.

[Phenomanul]

I never claimed there was "great separation" between the 2. D-Rob was great, Hakeem was better.

So aside from their one head-to-head playoff series... which San Antonio was bound to lose on account of (as others have noted, Bob Hill's coaching, Dennis Rodman's mysterious urge to chuck several 3 pointers and failing to defend the perimeter - particularly one Robert Horry) lack of clutch 3pt shooting (No Mario Elie, Sam Cassell, Robert Horry, Clyde Drexeler, or Kenny Smith to speak of)...

ah... but there is grand separation.

No head to head comparison of such large sample size has been more skewed by perception than that of Robinson vs. Hakeem.

42 Matchups.

30 Wins for Robinson's Spurs.
12 Wins for Olajuwon's Rockets.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=robinda01&p2=olajuha01

[DeadlyDynasty]

So aside from their one head-to-head playoff series... which San Antonio was bound to lose on account of (as others have noted, Bob Hill's coaching, Dennis Rodman's mysterious urge to chuck several 3 pointers and failing to defend the perimeter - particularly one Robert Horry) lack of clutch 3pt shooting (No Mario Elie, Sam Cassell, Robert Horry, Clyde Drexeler, or Kenny Smith to speak of)...

ah... but there is grand separation.

No head to head comparison of such large sample size has been more skewed by perception than that of Robinson vs. Hakeem.

42 Matchups.

30 Wins for Robinson's Spurs.
12 Wins for Olajuwon's Rockets.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=robinda01&p2=olajuha01

Interesting, but Olajuwon's stats were better in the head-to-head matchups. Now if you wanna say, "well, D-Rob's team won so that's all that matters," I'll be quick to remind you of the playoffs again.

As for the excuses in the 1995 WCF...sure, coaching and Rodman were factors, but Olajuwon's utter dominance in that series was the main reason San Antonio lost--to deny that would bring your credibility into question.

Hakeem's performance in the 1995 WCF is one of the all-time greatest performances in playoff history, and D-Rob was his primary defender for most of that.

Similar career stats (Dream's were a shade better for the most part), one MVP apiece, Dream with one more DPOY.

If you're going to blame outside factors like poor teammates on DRob's postseason failures, then you have to use the same logic in their regular season H2H matchups (especially since Hakeem's H2H's stats were better).

It's a two-way street, fellas.

[Trill Clinton]

Terry Cummings sighting!:wow Ahh the memories. I remember when I begged my grandad for a pair of $125 D-Rob sneakers and he bought them for me. I was only in the 7th grade too, lol.

David was my favorite Spur then but I have heard from several people over the years that he's an asshole.

[Blackjack]

Dave actually has better stats in the link provided, two less points but also took one less shot and was more efficient -- while his team dominated the matchup.

Hakeem was allowed to play one-on-one that series while the Rockets -- smartly and competently -- zoned up Robinson. Dave was playing in a straight jacket pretty much and having to worry about foul trouble, whereas Hakeem was allowed to go to work.

Bob Hill's dumb ass didn't understand that you actually had to make adjustments and that beating a team six or so times prior to a playoff (Spurs were like 6-1 or some shit in regular season and pre-season games played before the playoffs) didn't mean adjustments weren't there to be made; the incompetence was truly otherworldly . . .

Edit: My bad, made one less shot (1.8, to be exact). Took 6 less (14.3 to 20FGA).

[TwelveGs210]

Lol, you create a shit load of threads..four on the main page alone..

Anyways, damn good vid..im honored to have been able to watch Two of the top three spurs of all time, not to mention Parker is gonna retire as our best pg of all time, and manu aint too shabby himself.

[TwoHandJam]

So aside from their one head-to-head playoff series... which San Antonio was bound to lose on account of (as others have noted, Bob Hill's coaching, Dennis Rodman's mysterious urge to chuck several 3 pointers and failing to defend the perimeter - particularly one Robert Horry) lack of clutch 3pt shooting (No Mario Elie, Sam Cassell, Robert Horry, Clyde Drexeler, or Kenny Smith to speak of)...

ah... but there is grand separation.

No head to head comparison of such large sample size has been more skewed by perception than that of Robinson vs. Hakeem.

42 Matchups.

30 Wins for Robinson's Spurs.
12 Wins for Olajuwon's Rockets.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=robinda01&p2=olajuha01

Precisely. David wins the head to head career matchups by a ratio greater than 2:1.

Too much is made of that one series in '95. Overall, considering their entire careers and the fact that when they met they were the most dominating players on their respective teams, David won against Hakeem far more than he lost. Not even close.

[Phenomanul]

Interesting, but Olajuwon's stats were better in the head-to-head matchups. Now if you wanna say, "well, D-Rob's team won so that's all that matters," I'll be quick to remind you of the playoffs again.

As for the excuses in the 1995 WCF...sure, coaching and Rodman were factors, but Olajuwon's utter dominance in that series was the main reason San Antonio lost--to deny that would bring your credibility into question.

Hakeem's performance in the 1995 WCF is one of the all-time greatest performances in playoff history, and D-Rob was his primary defender for most of that.

Similar career stats (Dream's were a shade better for the most part), one MVP apiece, Dream with one more DPOY.

If you're going to blame outside factors like poor teammates on DRob's postseason failures, then you have to use the same logic in their regular season H2H matchups (especially since Hakeem's H2H's stats were better).

It's a two-way street, fellas.

I'm pretty sure Olojuwon destroyed Shaq in the very next round [without homecourt advantage no less], but that never stopped Laker fans from conveniently stepping over to the "other side of the street"... at least Robinson's Spurs managed to nab two games at Houston.

But here's a little Basketball 101 lesson for you... The Spurs couldn't double Olojuwon because of the accuracy of the aforementioned 3pt bombers... David on the otherhand was constantly doubled... The Rockets gambled that Del Negro and the rest of the Spurs' perimeter players couldn't beat them... and they were right. The worse part was that Rudy T. kept feeding the ball to Hakeem and the Spurs coaching staff never made the necessary adjustment to keep their offense off balance. Despite Olojuwon's impressive numbers the swing games (and series deciding plays) were made by Elie, Cassell and Horry.

So while I'd never deny that Olojuwon's performance in that series was spectacular, the casual NBA fan has no other footing on which to claim that a vast separation between the two players exists (in Olojuwon's favor). And yet they and the media constantly undermine The Admiral.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Hakeem Olajuwon has better individual numbers and team numbers. FACT or FICTION?

You guys really need to shelve the excuses and just accept reality. Denial is not a healthy state of mind.

[ShoogarBear]

Wilt blocked more shots than Russell. And Wilt was more mobile than most guards which made is easy for him to guard any player on the court, although he mostly defended inside. Both Russell and Chamberlain were better athletes than Robinson, although Russell was smaller.

Well, this is probably futile against a guy who chose to be called Phila_Chamberlain, but here goes:

Nobody knows who blocked more shots. But what IS consistently validated by people who saw them play was that Russell blocked shots to keep in play to teammates, and Chamberlain blocked them into the seats. (In fact, this is the one thing that Duncan does probably better than Robinson.)

Chamberlain obviously was no slouch at defense. But, like with the way he blocked shots, Russell revolutionized the concepts of what a center is supposed to do on defense, and the way team defense is played. Chamberlain dominated the game, but Russell influenced it much more.

Unlike what you said, I don't think Russell was a better athlete than Robinson. (Chamberlain is a whole 'nother story, still probably the greatest athlete in team sports.) I think if Russell appeared today in his prime, he wouldn't be a top-tier center. But that's because a lot of the principles of center play are based on what he did.

[DeadlyDynasty]

but but but...Davey had nobody to play with :cry

Let's ignore the fact that every other team in the wide-open 90's western conference was able to make it to the finals. The Spurs were a consistent 55-win team, what's their excuse?

[spurs1990]

My goodness my jaw was on the floor through that entire video.
That must have been what 1991, 1992 or so?


Such athleticism, mobility, power. So humble after the fact.

I wish David Robinson could enter the league in 2011. Can you imagine the media storm that would envelop over his kind of dominance.

Damn the Spurs for not surround him with another superstar.

[SenorSpur]

mGKMOT8yDH4

Can we get this guy back into the lineup?

What a freak this guy was. I remember him then, we took it for granted because there were so many great centers then, but what a guy like this would do for a team today is unbelievable.

I can tell you that I never took D-Rob for granted. He was my favorite player. Probably the most athletic center to ever man the spot. He was already a superb defender and shotblocker when he entered the NBA. He made himself into an all-around player, rebounding and scoring machine.

His exploits on both ends of the court were simply astounding. The stuff other centers simply would not or could not do. Amazing!

Duncan is certainly the greatest ever at his position. D-Rob was certainly one of the greatest at his - although he doesn't get near enough recognition.

[DMC]

Lol, you create a shit load of threads..four on the main page alone..

Anyways, damn good vid..im honored to have been able to watch Two of the top three spurs of all time, not to mention Parker is gonna retire as our best pg of all time, and manu aint too shabby himself.

Actually one I created some time back, I just don't start a new one any time I want to address that subject again.

Also, if no one wants to respond, it will be pushed off the page shortly. Thanks for bumping this one though!

[Blackjack]

but but but...Davey had nobody to play with :cry

Let's ignore the fact that every other team in the wide-open 90's western conference was able to make it to the finals. The Spurs were a consistent 55-win team, what's their excuse?

I'm beginning to think you're one of those old-timers, still pissed that Dave decided not to re-enter the draft -- likely finding his way to LA.

I'd say he was quite a bit more successful with a supporting cast that rivaled the crews KG was getting pitied for the majority of his time in Minnesota. Difference is, Dave never had the type of media and fan backing of KG that excused or took pity on him for the team's he led -- because he was that damn good; he set a standard that expected greatness regardless of circumstance.

Remember those teams Kobe had in between Shaq and Gasol? Yeah. ... It matters.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Duncan <> Olajuwon > Robinson .. Slightly.. No shame to say that.

and Duncan >>> Garnett btw.

[DMC]

Plus Dave didn't cry about it (literally) like KG did. Poor millionaire basketball players... it's just not fair.

[DeadlyDynasty]

I'm beginning to think you're one of those old-timers, still pissed that Dave decided not to re-enter the draft -- likely finding his way to LA.

I'd say he was quite a bit more successful with a supporting cast that rivaled the crews KG was getting pitied for the majority of his time in Minnesota. Difference is, Dave never had the type of media and fan backing of KG that excused or took pity on him for the team's he led -- because he was that damn good; he set a standard that expected greatness regardless of circumstance.

Remember those teams Kobe had in between Shaq and Gasol? Yeah. ... It matters.

It does matter, but the Spurs were consistently winning 50+ games in the 90's against a Flavor-of-the-year conference. I don't think it's a lot to ask for them to make just one finals, or more than one WCF.

IIRC The D-Rob led Spurs lost around 4 playoff series where they had the HCA. If they were good enough to attain that record and secure HCA, then why didn't they win the series they were supposed to? He's a great player, and as the face of the franchise at the time he must share a large part of the responsibility for playoff failures.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Say what you will about the Lakers, but they rarely ever lose a series that they enter with HCA (the 2004 Finals is actually all I recall at the moment)

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Say what you will about the Lakers, but they rarely ever lose a series that they enter with HCA (the 2004 Finals is actually all I recall at the moment)

Newsflash: They won't be getting HCA in the WCF.

[DMC]

Say what you will about the Lakers, but they rarely ever lose a series that they enter with HCA (the 2004 Finals is actually all I recall at the moment)


Well, the Spurs have never lost a Finals...

so.... that and two bucks will get you a grande roast at Starbucks.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Newsflash: They won't be getting HCA in the WCF.

I'm not worried...2 of the last 4 series against the Spurs were sans HCA and LAL took care of business. The Spurs want no part of LAL in a best of 7

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I'm not worried...2 of the last 4 series against the Spurs were sans HCA and LAL took care of business. The Spurs want no part of LAL in a best of 7

That I'll agree with.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Well, the Spurs have never lost a Finals...

so.... that and two bucks will get you a grande roast at Starbucks.

The Spurs would have to get by the Lakers to get there, and last I checked Pop is Phil's bitch.

[DMC]

The Spurs would have to get by the Lakers to get there, and last I checked Pop is Phil's bitch.

Not necessarily.

Obviously you don't know much about the way the playoffs work.

[ElNono]

The Spurs would have to get by the Lakers to get there, and last I checked Pop is Phil's bitch.

Last I checked Lakers haven't won a series without HCA since '04...
And bitch or not, Pop already left Phil, Kome and Fish crying...

[DeadlyDynasty]

Not necessarily.

Obviously you don't know much about the way the playoffs work.

Obviously you don't dwell in reality if you think another team is going to knock off the Lakers for you. But please, lend us your theories...

[ElNono]

Lakers prey on a handful of sub .500 teams at home and then come talking... how many teams over .500 have you guys beat this season?

[DeadlyDynasty]

Last I checked Lakers haven't won a series without HCA since '04...
And bitch or not, Pop already left Phil, Kome and Fish crying...

Great, he's only 1-4 against Phil now...you wanna cookie?

[ElNono]

Great, he's only 1-4 against Phil now...you wanna cookie?

Nope, I'll take the :lobt2:

[DeadlyDynasty]

Lakers prey on a handful of sub .500 teams at home and then come talking... how many teams over .500 have you guys beat this season?

Probably none, and we both know it don't mean jackshit come playoff time. All flaws are exposed in the postseason.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Nope, I'll take the :lobt2:

Well I'm afraid you'll have to do without, again:(

[ElNono]

Probably none, and we both know it don't mean jackshit come playoff time. All flaws are exposed in the postseason.

Of course, regular season doesn't matter :rolleyes

That's why the Lakeshow runs intensive practices and circle days in the calendar :lmao

[DMC]

Obviously you don't dwell in reality if you think another team is going to knock off the Lakers for you. But please, lend us your theories...
Well, you state opinion as a matter-of-fact. I address it as such.

I couldn't give two shits about your opinion on who's going to not beat the Lakers. It's no fucking shocker that a Flaker troll swears that no one will ever beat the Lakers. Offer something more substantial than your unhealthy infatuation with Kobe. You come across like a 12 year old infatuated girl on a Facebook site.

[Blackjack]

It does matter, but the Spurs were consistently winning 50+ games in the 90's against a Flavor-of-the-year conference. I don't think it's a lot to ask for them to make just one finals, or more than one WCF.

IIRC The D-Rob led Spurs lost around 4 playoff series where they had the HCA. If they were good enough to attain that record and secure HCA, then why didn't they win the series they were supposed to? He's a great player, and as the face of the franchise at the time he must share a large part of the responsibility for playoff failures.

You ever see Dave bitch about his teammates or duck responsibility? Did you happen to see the press-conference after the loss to the Rockets?

The Spurs were winning 50+ games because of Dave. Many of those teams had no business winning 50 games, and that's been said by some of his contemporaries (opposing players and coaches).

LA, Portland, Utah ... those were teams. They had depth and great coaching. You know full well how different regular-season and post-season success are. Usually once the Spurs got to the playoffs, teams would just load up on D-Rob and completely expose his supporting cast and coaching. Had Dave decided to re-enter the Draft -- something I'm sure most people would have decided to do given the options -- your Lakers may have very well prevented Jordan from that first 3-peat.

And let's get this straight, I've already told you I believe Hakeem deserves to be a little higher on the all-time pecking order than Dave. I'm not arguing anything with regards to that belief. But there's a lot of misperception with regards to the type of player Dave was -- how truly great he was -- on account of the Rockets series and all the highlights played since.

The guy played in San Antonio -- no one cared to set the record straight unless they were a Spurs or Robinson fan.

[ElNono]

Well I'm afraid you'll have to do without, again:(

This is not Mavland. We have 4... including destroying the Lakers on two of those. We know what it takes.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Well, you state opinion as a matter-of-fact. I address it as such.

I couldn't give two shits about your opinion on who's going to not beat the Lakers. It's no fucking shocker that a Flaker troll swears that no one will ever beat the Lakers. Offer something more substantial than your unhealthy infatuation with Kobe. You come across like a 12 year old infatuated girl on a Facebook site.

What do you have to offer but hope and prayer that someone else knocks LAL off? They're already the #2 seed in the WC after about 3 months of some of the most uninspired basketball you will ever watch. It's really not fair, tbh.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Of course, regular season doesn't matter :rolleyes

That's why the Lakeshow runs intensive practices and circle days in the calendar :lmao

If the regular season mattered then Robinson wouldn't have choked on Hakeem's cock in the 1995 WCF, no?

[DMC]

What do you have to offer but hope and prayer that someone else knocks LAL off? They're already the #2 seed in the WC after about 3 months of some of the most uninspired basketball you will ever watch. It's really not fair, tbh.
What do I have to offer? You claimed the Spurs would have to go through the Lakers. I said not necessarily at which time you grabbed your pom poms and started with the cheerleading.

Back up your talk or shut up. Say something that makes sense, anything.

[DMC]

If the regular season mattered then Robinson wouldn't have choked on Hakeem's cock in the 1995 WCF, no?
Oh you are 12...

If the regular season didn't matter, Robinson wouldn't be in the WCF.

I guess Ben Wallace owns Shaq, or maybe Chauncey owns Kobe.

Hey, who was that crying to S. A. Smith about wanting to be traded a few years back? Never saw Robinson do that.

It's really easy to be a corporate fan, always aware that your mega franchise will make the deals, regardless of cost, to get your team back to the level it was. Hell, anyone could do that. However, the Spurs have not purchased ONE ring, not one. We won them all. Your team went out multiple times and bought star caliber players, a star caliber coach and then sat back and bragged about how good they were.

Now Miami is doing the same thing and I have seen dozens of you Laker Fakers bitch about it. Meanwhile the Spurs keep building teams and developing players that we find in places other than the front page of Sports Illustrated.

[DeadlyDynasty]

You ever see Dave bitch about his teammates or duck responsibility? Did you happen to see the press-conference after the loss to the Rockets?

The Spurs were winning 50+ games because of Dave. Many of those teams had no business winning 50 games, and that's been said by some of his contemporaries (opposing players and coaches).

LA, Portland, Utah ... those were teams. They had depth and great coaching. You know full well how different regular-season and post-season success are. Usually once the Spurs got to the playoffs, teams would just load up on D-Rob and completely expose his supporting cast and coaching. Had Dave decided to re-enter the Draft -- something I'm sure most people would have decided to do given the options -- your Lakers may have very well prevented Jordan from that first 3-peat.

And let's get this straight, I've already told you I believe Hakeem deserves to be a little higher on the all-time pecking order than Dave. I'm not arguing anything with regards to that belief. But there's a lot of misperception with regards to the type of player Dave was -- how truly great he was -- on account of the Rockets series and all the highlights played since.

The guy played in San Antonio -- no one cared to set the record straight unless they were a Spurs or Robinson fan.

Dude I think we're ultimately arguing on the same side here. D-Rob was great but Hakeem was just a little better and more well-rounded. Agreed.

[ElNono]

This Laker team is simply not the same as last season. I thought they were when the season started, tbh.

Anybody has a shot at Staples these days (well, except the Cavs), and they keep deluding themselves with Gasol 'just coasting', when they've run him to the ground early on. Too many miles on those legs in the past few seasons.
Bynum is a ticking bomb, Fish is a gift that keeps on giving and he can't even score at a decent clip anymore, the bench turned out to be a turd, and Kome can shoot them out of any game plus he likes to roam on D because he can't stay in front of anybody anymore.

Not impressed nor scared with this edition of the Lakeshow.

[Blackjack]

I'd favor the Lakers over the Spurs if everything plays out the way I expect it to but I'm not nearly as confident saying that as I would have been in the last two years.

The Lakers are showing wear and I wouldn't be shocked in the slightest if they look like the same gassed bunch they were when the Spurs bounced them in '03 after their 3-peat -- that team's played a shitload of basketball, not even mentioning the International play.

[ElNono]

If the regular season mattered then Robinson wouldn't have choked on Hakeem's cock in the 1995 WCF, no?

It's not 1995, and this Laker team is not that Spurs team.

You can keep trying to deflect it, but this Laker team stated that they care. And then proceeded to get the shit beat out of them. :lmao

[Jdspur20]

mGKMOT8yDH4


NINJA!!!!!!:flag:


Can we get this guy back into the lineup?

What a freak this guy was. I remember him then, we took it for granted because there were so many great centers then, but what a guy like this would do for a team today is unbelievable.

[DMC]

I never understood a team that trades all it's role players in the off season after winning a ring. It doesn't make much sense. I can see it working a couple of times at most, but eventually you are going to roll snake eyes.

[DeadlyDynasty]

What do I have to offer? You claimed the Spurs would have to go through the Lakers. I said not necessarily at which time you grabbed your pom poms and started with the cheerleading.

Back up your talk or shut up. Say something that makes sense, anything.

Jesus Christ you're fucking stupid...if the Spurs hope to make the Finals they'll have to go through LA to get there.


Please, is there any rational or sane person in this universe that doesn't think this is the case? Don't try and hinge your argument on semantics or technicalities, then run and hide like a bitch when called out on it.

So genius, you're saying the Spurs don't "necessarily" have to go through LAL to get to the finals (your insinuations, not mine)...so enlighten us as to who you HOPE can do your dirty work for you.


Please...i'm on the edge of my seat

[ElNono]

A much better Lakers team last season needed HCA advantage to get past OKC... Lakerfan has short memory.

I don't even think the Lakeshow will be #2 seed, tbh. They luckied out that they're on a soft schedule right now and Dallas got injured. But eventually the tough stretch will come around and we'll really see if the intensive practices paid off and if Gasol is really coasting.

[DeadlyDynasty]

I never understood a team that trades all it's role players in the off season after winning a ring. It doesn't make much sense. I can see it working a couple of times at most, but eventually you are going to roll snake eyes.

Role players like Vujacic, MBenga, Morrison, Powell and Farmar? Have you even watched their careers on the Lakers?:lmao


As BJ's post above notes, LAL is longer in the tooth--and in that 2002 offseason Mitch sat on his hands as our role players got older, slower, or even more ineffective. This year Mitch learned from his mistake and brought in bench guys that actually log good minutes.

Some of you people should know better than to blow your wads on the regular season...you sound like Suns fans tbph

[DMC]

Jesus Christ you're fucking stupid...if the Spurs hope to make the Finals they'll have to go through LA to get there.

Again, that's your opinion. We know about opinions of Laker fans.

Might as well say we will have to go through Phoenix... wait.. probably not.

Or Dallas.. maybe?

Your team came very close to being bounced by the fucking Thunder.

I will keep my options open.


Please, is there any rational or sane person in this universe that doesn't think this is the case? Don't try and hinge your argument on semantics or technicalities, then run and hide like a bitch when called out on it.

Typical "if you don't agree with me you aren't rational" bullshit. Weak.


So genius, you're saying the Spurs don't "necessarily" have to go through LAL to get to the finals (your insinuations, not mine)...so enlighten us as to who you HOPE can do your dirty work for you.

I hope we meet you in the 1st round. However, any team in the playoffs can beat you if you don't have HCA, maybe even if you do, especially since you have no way of knowing the state of your team come playoff time.



Please...i'm on the edge of my seat
That's because you squat to piss I am sure.

[DeadlyDynasty]

A much better Lakers team last season needed HCA advantage to get past OKC... Lakerfan has short memory.

I don't even think the Lakeshow will be #2 seed, tbh. They luckied out that they're on a soft schedule right now and Dallas got injured. But eventually the tough stretch will come around and we'll really see if the intensive practices paid off and if Gasol is really coasting.

To be honest, with the effort and poor play we've seen, they'll be lucky to make the playoffs. My fear is that we'll ultimately go .500 in our last 54 games (only 41 left now) and have no shot of advancing in the playoffs.

[DMC]

Role players like Vujacic, MBenga, Morrison, Powell and Farmar? Have you even watched their careers on the Lakers?:lmao


As BJ's post above notes, LAL is longer in the tooth--and in that 2002 offseason Mitch sat on his hands as our role players got older, slower, or even more ineffective. This year Mitch learned from his mistake and brought in bench guys that actually log good minutes.

Some of you people should know better than to blow your wads on the regular season...you sound like Suns fans tbph

Actually I was thinking of Trevor Ariza, but whatever team gets you there got you there. You repay them by dumping them on some losing Eastern squad.

Hey though, with your "scouts" that become coaches and GMs of other franchises, you can acquire good talent like Gasol without any bickering from other teams.

[Jdspur20]

I never claimed there was "great separation" between the 2. D-Rob was great, Hakeem was better.


^
This. as much as I loved watching D-rob play when I was little, Hakeen was a slightly better. I think over all, D-rob as a Career was a better Defensive player one on one(except for 1995 Conf Finals of course, no ones perfect) and hakeem had great footwork as an offensive player. somebody had to win.

[ElNono]

As of today, Lakeshow only played against 10 teams over .500 so far. Their record is 5-5, with all 5 loses coming on the road.

[DMC]

To be honest, with the effort and poor play we've seen, they'll be lucky to make the playoffs. My fear is that we'll ultimately go .500 in our last 54 games (only 41 left now) and have no shot of advancing in the playoffs.

Only time will tell. At the beginning of the season I was telling everyone that the Lakers are going to be the team to beat, and I still believe that simply because they are the defending champs, however that doesn't mean the new champs will have to go through them. It's likely they will, but not assured.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Again, that's your opinion. We know about opinions of Laker fans.

Might as well say we will have to go through Phoenix... wait.. probably not.

Or Dallas.. maybe?

Your team came very close to being bounced by the fucking Thunder.

I will keep my options open.

Typical "if you don't agree with me you aren't rational" bullshit. Weak.

I hope we meet you in the 1st round. However, any team in the playoffs can beat you if you don't have HCA, maybe even if you do, especially since you have no way of knowing the state of your team come playoff time.

That's because you squat to piss I am sure.

Are you a religious man?

[DeadlyDynasty]

Only time will tell. At the beginning of the season I was telling everyone that the Lakers are going to be the team to beat, and I still believe that simply because they are the defending champs, however that doesn't mean the new champs will have to go through them. It's likely they will, but not assured.

To be honest, that post went completely over your head.

[DMC]

Are you a religious man?
You looking for the priest who molested you as a boy? Not me.

[DMC]

To be honest, that post went completely over your head.
You wouldn't know because you've never been that far up in mentality.

[DeadlyDynasty]

As of today, Lakeshow only played against 10 teams over .500 so far. Their record is 5-5, with all 5 loses coming on the road.

I'm telling you man, we're fucked. No shot whatsoever.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Actually I was thinking of Trevor Ariza, but whatever team gets you there got you there. You repay them by dumping them on some losing Eastern squad.

Hey though, with your "scouts" that become coaches and GMs of other franchises, you can acquire good talent like Gasol without any bickering from other teams.

You know Spurfan's close to waving the white flag when they start crying collusion:rollin

[DJ Mbenga]

im suprised nobody posted this. hakeem is lightyears ahead of robinson and its not even close. he didnt win as much because like robinson he didnt have his duncan next to him. well he did but sampson went oden on him and they were screwed.

hW4uXlRGAF0

[ElNono]

I'm telling you man, we're fucked. No shot whatsoever.

If Kobe quit, why wouldn't you?

[DeadlyDynasty]

If Kobe quit, why wouldn't you?

I wouldn't quit unless there was a can't-miss big man entering the next draft, tbh

[ElNono]

I wouldn't quit unless there was a can't-miss big man entering the next draft, tbh

If there would have been such reward when Kobe did it. Instead we got trade demands and some 'rogue' video.

But you shouldn't get too down. Lots of things can happen from here until March. Maybe Fish, Blake and Ebanks can be traded for OJ Mayo. Or you can always hope some other team's players get injured.

[DeadlyDynasty]

If there would have been such reward when Kobe did it. Instead we got trade demands and some 'rogue' video.

But you shouldn't get too down. Lots of things can happen from here until March. Maybe Fish, Blake and Ebanks can be traded for OJ Mayo. Or you can always hope some other team's players get injured.

You forgot Stern. He won't let us lose. :toast

[ElNono]

You forgot Stern. He won't let us lose. :toast

Touche :lol

[ChuckD]

If you're judging big men's careers by one head to head playoff series then obviously Amare > Tim since he statistically dominated him in the 2005 WCFs.

[cutewizard]

Ranking the greatest centers of all time:

1. Chamberlain
2. Russell
3. Sabonis (point center, greatest passing center, hits the three)
4. Shaq
5. Olajuwon
6. Jabbar
7. Robinson
8. Walton.......


hmmmmm..................

[ChuckD]

Ranking the greatest centers of all time:

1. Chamberlain
2. Russell
3. Sabonis (point center, greatest passing center, hits the three)
4. Shaq
5. Olajuwon
6. Jabbar
7. Robinson
8. Walton.......


hmmmmm..................
While Sabonis was a great passing center, Walton was better and Wilt actually won an assists crown one season. He's not "the greatest passing center", and I don't recall him being a much of a 3 point threat. Walton should move up, and Shaq and Sabonis down.

[SpursNextRomanEmpire]

What a beast

[Sec24Row7]

I provide statistical and visual evidence that Hakeem was better than David, and I get flamed. Don't get angry guys, Hakeem was just better. Life goes on.

Stay classy, Spurfan :toast

Whottt would have owned the shit out of you.

[DMC]

You know Spurfan's close to waving the white flag when they start crying collusion:rollin

How's that Clippers game going?

[DMC]

I wouldn't quit unless there was a can't-miss big man entering the next draft, tbh

Next year you will have to change your name to "Deadly Heat Dynasty". Obviously you are a leg riding bandwagon fan of whomever is winning at the time. How's those reversible jerseys working out for you?