Religion of Peace strikes again...

[Yonivore]

Killings of newborn babies on the rise in Pakistan (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110117/lf_afp/pakistanchildreninfanticide)

Why are these people taken seriously by the international community?

[George Gervin's Afro]

Killings of newborn babies on the rise in Pakistan (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110117/lf_afp/pakistanchildreninfanticide)

Why are these people taken seriously by the international community?

let's just kill 2 billion people



sincerely,

yonivore

[boutons_deux]

Why does the US keep giving $Bs to Pakistan who finances, arms, protects the Taliban?

30K guns death in USA every year, not a peep from Yoni.

US has worst infant mortality rate of all the industrial counties with "socialized" health care, mostly due the USA lack of perinatal (expensive) health care, wi. not a peep from Yoni, other that to lie that the USA has the best health care in the world.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/10/16/health/16infant.graph.400.jpg

Yoni, really, when is your period over?

[TeyshaBlue]

Critical thinking fail. Do just a little research and you'll see why the chart above is bogus.
*hint* start with reportable miscarriages.

[boutons_deux]

spinning today, are we?

US health care ranks below industrial "socialized" health care in outcomes and way above in cost per capita. US infant mortality rates are way, way up whatever international comparisons you want to dig up.

[TeyshaBlue]

spinning today, are we?

US health care ranks below industrial "socialized" health care in outcomes and way above in cost per capita. US infant mortality rates are way, way up whatever international comparisons you want to dig up.

Not spinning, just pointing out inaccurate data. USIM rates are actually on the decline right now although they have remained static the last few years at 6.8 per 1000 live births.
You and I actually share the same views regarding healthcare in the US...right down to a robust public option. I would just prefer the decision are made upon accurate data is all. It serves the cause better.

[clambake]

hellfire missiles problably contributed to the number.

[Wild Cobra]

Why does the US keep giving $Bs to Pakistan who finances, arms, protects the Taliban?

30K guns death in USA every year, not a peep from Yoni.

US has worst infant mortality rate of all the industrial counties with "socialized" health care, mostly due the USA lack of perinatal (expensive) health care, wi. not a peep from Yoni, other that to lie that the USA has the best health care in the world.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/10/16/health/16infant.graph.400.jpg

Yoni, really, when is your period over?
Does that include abortions?

[clambake]

does it include tiny martyrs?

[Yonivore]

I hear Iran is still stoning and hanging gays and that most of the Muslim world still subjugates women -- generally treating them like chattel.

Aren't some of those countries now on the UN's Human Rights committee?

Just sayin'

[ChumpDumper]

So, all Muslims are evil?

Is this he takeaway?

[Winehole23]

Why are these people taken seriously by the international community?Cherry picking. "These people "are not all Pakistani, nor is Pakistan typical of the whole Muslim world. A better example would be Indonesia.

[boutons_deux]

Yoni's period is really dragging on this time.

He should quickly seen his gyno.

[Yonivore]

Cherry picking. "These people "are not all Pakistani, nor is Pakistan typical of the whole Muslim world. A better example would be Indonesia.
Okay, Indonesia then...

Study Group on Islamic Extremism in Indonesia (http://www.cfr.org/project/371/study_group_on_islamic_extremism_in_indonesia.html )

Indonesia: The shadow of extremism (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4283357.stm)

Support mounts for Indonesian Islamic extremists (http://www.jihadwatch.org/2004/12/support-mounts-for-indonesian-islamic-extremists.html)

Indonesia and Transnational Islamic Extremism (http://www.asiasentinel.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1808&Itemid=377)

[George Gervin's Afro]

So, all Muslims are evil?

Is this he takeaway?

It is the religion of peace!

[Yonivore]

It is the religion of peace!
Just love what they're doing to the Christians in Northern Africa right now...

[Yonivore]

Willis Elliott is a contributor to the Washington Post's "On Faith" blog. Elliott submitted an article to the Post that responded to a piece on Muslim-Christian relations by another contributor. The Post declined to publish Elliott's essay, so Pajamas Media did (http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/spiked-by-the-wapos-on-faith-blog/?singlepage=true). Elliott responded to this discussion topic, posted by Elizabeth Tenety of the Post:


The Mutual Blasphemy of Christianity and Islam.

2011 began with some bleak news for Muslim-Christian relations around the world.

Recent attacks against churches in Iraq, Nigeria and Egypt have killed dozens of Christian worshippers. Meanwhile, the Pakistani government is standing by the country's controversial blasphemy law which critics say threatens religious minorities.

How should political and religious leaders in America and abroad deal with these challenges to interfaith relations?
Elliott's response contributed, I think, a needed dose of realism; the fact that the Post didn't want to print it is disquieting:


"Mutual blasphemers, love one another!" is the title of an essay I published many years ago. Now as then, the human project is to learn not only to live with, but to love, "the blasphemers" (meaning whichever of the two religions is not yours).

1. But the project, so defined, is not neutral. It is Christian and humanist. Christian: Jesus said, "Love your enemies." Islam, to the contrary, is essentially hostile to "the infidels." ...

2. Blasphemy (irreverent speech or action against a deity or religious person/belief/object) is currently in the news only when Muslims become violent, or threaten violence, when they feel offended: when we Christians feel offended, almost never do we become violent, and almost always we suffer the disrespect in silence.

In the New Testament (and other early Christian literature), much is said about nonviolence, never is violence commanded or even suggested; it is forbidden. Not so, early Muslim literature. The contrast is to be expected: Jesus was anti-violent, Muhammad was violent (a military leader as well as a religious leader). ...

...Islam was, from its start, majority-minded; and Muslims don't know how to behave when they are not in power: it enrages them, makes them thin-skinned to "blasphemy," drives them to achieve power and impose sharia, even motivates some of them to martyr-suicide in killing any they consider enemies of Allah.
Christianity and Islam are far more different than is popularly supposed. Elliott concludes:


[W]e can make no essential progress, religious or political, unless we honestly and courageously confront the reality that our two religions are essential enemies, antagonists each to the other's essence, mutual blasphemers. Only with that realism can the mutual blasphemers begin to learn to get along with each other without violence. ...

Muslims will continue to strive (jihad) for dar es salam (a peaceful world under Allah) in dar es harb (the "war" world, all the world not yet under Allah -- especially where non-Muslim governments such as the state of Israel are in control of any part of the world that was once under Allah). And "the West" (with rootage in Christianity) will not cease pressing for religious freedom everywhere.
There's your "Religion of Peace."

[ChumpDumper]

Okay, Indonesia then...

Study Group on Islamic Extremism in Indonesia (http://www.cfr.org/project/371/study_group_on_islamic_extremism_in_indonesia.html )

Indonesia: The shadow of extremism (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4283357.stm)

Support mounts for Indonesian Islamic extremists (http://www.jihadwatch.org/2004/12/support-mounts-for-indonesian-islamic-extremists.html)

Indonesia and Transnational Islamic Extremism (http://www.asiasentinel.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1808&Itemid=377)How many people live in Indonesia, yoni?

Do you consider them all to be evil?

[The Reckoning]

the US had socialized healthcare in 1960?

[Oh, Gee!!]

good thing nobody in this christian country of ours kills or abandons babies. glad that stuff only happens in them middle east countries

[Winehole23]

There's your "Religion of Peace."More cherry picking. Two can play at that.

Here is your religion of peace, Yoni:

http://onfaith.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/guestvoices/2011/01/egyptian_muslims_act_as_human_shields_for_coptic_c hristmas_mass.html

[Yonivore]

More cherry picking. Two can play at that.

Here is your religion of peace, Yoni:

http://onfaith.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/guestvoices/2011/01/egyptian_muslims_act_as_human_shields_for_coptic_c hristmas_mass.html
Muslims defy their own murderous co-religionists and you think that answers?

Okay...The Muslim Faith is a faith predicated on violent subjugation of infidels. That doesn't make all Muslims violent. But, it does make any Muslim that counters that a blasphemer to their own religion.

[Winehole23]

Muslims defy their own murderous co-religionists and you think that answers?In the most emphatic way, yes.

[Yonivore]

In the most emphatic way, yes.
Well, a few peaceful Muslims doesn't make it a peaceful religion.

[balli]

Well, a few peaceful Muslims doesn't make it a peaceful religion.

A few, huh?

You're a bigot and a dirtbag.

[Winehole23]

Well, a few peaceful Muslims doesn't make it a peaceful religion. Then a few violent ones don't make it violent.

Look, so what if Islam isn't peaceful? Is Christianity peaceful? Is it somehow a requirement that religions be soft and cuddly?



(Exodus 32;27, Matthew 10:34, Luke 12:51, Revelations 6:4)

[Yonivore]

Then a few violent ones don't make it violent.
It's not a few. And, it's not even just the violent ones. It's also the devout Muslims who recognize their duty to convert, subjugate, or kill all infidels. Just because some don't have the stomach doesn't make them any less agreeable with the act of their more violent co-religionists.


Look, so what if Islam isn't peaceful? Is Christianity peaceful? Is it somehow a requirement that religions be soft and cuddly?

(Exodus 32;27
Yeah, those Jews did some pretty whacky shit in the Old Testament. They weren't Christians.


Matthew 10:34, Luke 12:51,
A quote out of context becomes pretext. I suggest you attend Sunday School and have this put in the proper context for you.

Considering the great commandment is that we love the Lord God with all our heart, all our mind, and all our soul; and, to love our neighbor as our self, I'm certain these two passage don't have the meaning you ascribe to them.

From what I understand, Jesus was alluding to some Jewish text from the Old Testament where he would be seen as divisive. Pretty accurate. But, considering all other precepts preached by Jesus in the New Testament, there is no serious biblical scholar that believes Jesus is calling us to violence.

And, if it were only two such passages in the Koran, you'd have a point. Unfortunately, the Koran is chocked full of violent direction.


Revelations 6:4)
I'm not sure anyone fully understands the book of Revelations. I'm watching a History channel program on the prophecies of Revelations, right now.

[Blake]

Yeah, those Jews did some pretty whacky shit in the Old Testament. They weren't Christians.


fyi, Christians use the OT as part of their doctrine.

[johnsmith]

Yep, pretty sure the OT is in every bible I've ever picked up........but then again, I'm an evil Christian.

[Winehole23]

Yeah, those Jews did some pretty whacky shit in the Old Testament. They weren't Christians.You can't just lop off Moses from the Judeo-Christian tradition with a wave of your hand.

[Winehole23]

It's not a few. And, it's not even just the violent ones. It's also the devout Muslims who recognize their duty to convert, subjugate, or kill all infidels. Just because some don't have the stomach doesn't make them any less agreeable with the act of their more violent co-religionists. You're the expert on Islamic piety and doctrine. Rly?

A quote out of context becomes pretext.Turn it around on yourself, professor. It definitely applies to what you're saying in this thread.

From what I understand, Jesus was alluding to some Jewish text from the Old Testament where he would be seen as divisive. Pretty accurate. But, considering all other precepts preached by Jesus in the New Testament, there is no serious biblical scholar that believes Jesus is calling us to violence.Emotionally and mentally disturbed people might think different.

And, if it were only two such passages in the Koran, you'd have a point. Unfortunately, the Koran is chocked full of violent directionBeg pardon, but if even if this is true, so what?

[Yonivore]

You're the expert on Islamic piety and doctrine. Rly?
Never claimed to be. But, Willis Elliott, the guy I linked is probably more of an expert than either of us.


Turn it around on yourself, professor. It definitely applies to what you're saying in this thread.
I've never quoted the Koran -- in or out of context. My assertions are based on the opinions of other and the acts of those associated with the religion.


Emotionally and mentally disturbed people might think different.
Not my job to make sure the deranged properly understand scripture.


Beg pardon, but if even if this is true, so what?
Because its their doctrine to convert, subjugate, or kill infidels. There's nothing in there about loving your neighbor as yourself unless, of course, they're Muslim --- and male.

[Winehole23]

And what follows from that conclusion, Profe?

[Winehole23]

I've never quoted the Koran -- in or out of context. My assertions are based on the opinions of other and the acts of those associated with the religion.I didn't say you did. I only recommended that you start embracing your own suggestion that context matters.

Pushing Pakistan forward as somehow typical, or the heinous actions described in the OP as being distinctly "islamic" in nature, is very misleading.

[Yonivore]

I didn't say you did. I only recommended that you start embracing your own suggestion that context matters.

Pushing Pakistan forward as somehow typical, or the heinous actions described in the OP as being distinctly "islamic" in nature, is very misleading.
You're right, the Chinese are pretty active infanticide practitioners.

As are the liberal left, in this country.

But, when it comes to religious-based violence. Nobody tops the Muslims.

[Winehole23]

But, when it comes to religious-based violence. Nobody tops the Muslims.I would say the destruction we have visited upon Iraq (which did not attack us in the first place) and Afghanistan puts the whole modern history of terrorism (religiously based or not) to shame if we're going to start measuring the violence and death.

Which is more dangerous and deadly, terrorism or the DoD? No contest.

[Yonivore]

I would say the destruction we have visited upon Iraq (which did not attack us in the first place) and Afghanistan puts the whole modern history of terrorism (religiously based or not) to shame if we're going to start measuring the violence and death.
Changing the subject?

And, before the invasion of Iraq, the World Health Organization (and liberal town criers) said Saddam Hussein was killing 50,000 Iraq children, a year, due to his diverting OFF to non-humanitarian projects.

Let me know when we top his killing spree of innocent civilians.


Which is more dangerous and deadly, terrorism or the DoD? No contest.DoD isn't a religion and Terrorism could never be argued as a legitimate use of force.

IF you can't stay on topic, why do you reply?

[George Gervin's Afro]

Changing the subject?

And, before the invasion of Iraq, the World Health Organization (and liberal town criers) said Saddam Hussein was killing 50,000 Iraq children, a year, due to his diverting OFF to non-humanitarian projects.

Let me know when we top his killing spree of innocent civilians.

DoD isn't a religion and Terrorism could never be argued as a legitimate use of force.

IF you can't stay on topic, why do you reply?

Ok, so as long as we kill less than 50,000 innocent civilains we are better than the terrorists

[Yonivore]

Ok, so as long as we kill less than 50,000 innocent civilains we are better than the terrorists
So long as we're engaged in a legitimate war, while unfortunate, loss of innocent life is inevitable.

The United States of America has done more for preventing collateral damage than any other military on the face of the planet.

[George Gervin's Afro]

So long as we're engaged in a legitimate war, while unfortunate, loss of innocent life is inevitable.

The United States of America has done more for preventing collateral damage than any other military on the face of the planet.

So why wouldn't the populace of the countries that we are 'helping' not view us as they do the terrorists? Considering we have killed just as many innocents?

[Winehole23]

Changing the subject?Not at all. A decade long occupation of two Muslim countries is not unrelated to Muslim antipathy toward the USA.

Let me know when we top his killing spree of innocent civilians.I wouldn't call it a spree, but innocent civilians are still being killed. War is hell.

DoD isn't a religion and Terrorism could never be argued as a legitimate use of force.Agreed. But if we're going to judge things based on the needless violence and death they visit on the human race, certainly war belongs in the discussion.

IF you can't stay on topic, why do you reply?Sorry you couldn't keep up.

[Yonivore]

Not at all. A decade long occupation of two Muslim countries is not unrelated to Muslim antipathy toward the USA.
Why do they hate the Swedes? Oh, that's right, cartoons.


I wouldn't call it a spree, but innocent civilians are still being killed. War is hell.
It was wanton and unnecessary. Add to that his political killing and general disregard for human life and who knows how many deaths he caused.


Agreed. But if we're going to judge things based on the needless violence and death they visit on the human race, certainly war belongs in the discussion.
Illegitimate wars, sure. But, according your our President and Congress, this is a legitimate military action.


Sorry you couldn't keep up.
I kept up fine. You can't defend Islam and you can't slander Christianity so, you start talking about legitimate wars as if they're somehow the equivalent of Islamic terrorism.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Why do they hate the Swedes? Oh, that's right, cartoons.


It was wanton and unnecessary. Add to that his political killing and general disregard for human life and who knows how many deaths he caused.


Illegitimate wars, sure. But, according your our President and Congress, this is a legitimate military action.


I kept up fine. You can't defend Islam and you can't slander Christianity so, you start talking about legitimate wars as if they're somehow the equivalent of Islamic terrorism.


And, before the invasion of Iraq, the World Health Organization (and liberal town criers) said Saddam Hussein was killing 50,000 Iraq children, a year, due to his diverting OFF to non-humanitarian projects.

Let me know when we top his killing spree of innocent civilians.


You asked to let you know when we match him body for body... I am not going to condemn 2 billion people because the action of a few..


Let me know your plan to rid the world of an entire religion.

[Winehole23]

So long as we're engaged in a legitimate war, while unfortunate, loss of innocent life is inevitable.

The United States of America has done more for preventing collateral damage than any other military on the face of the planet.We're all familiar with your penchant for parsing the cruelties of war and LE as praiseworthy and minimizing the responsibility of the USA (or the constabulary) for any messes they make.

(Oh well, I guess we all need hobbies.)

[Winehole23]

Why do they hate the Swedes? Oh, that's right, cartoons.Good comparison to the USA. Not.


Illegitimate wars, sure. But, according your our President and Congress, this is a legitimate military action.There's the parsing I was talking about. That doesn't absolve us of moral responsibilty for war itself of legal responsibility for actions occurring outside the law of war.

I kept up fine. You can't defend Islam and you can't slander Christianity so, you start talking about legitimate wars as if they're somehow the equivalent of Islamic terrorism.I never undertook to defend Islam. I only characterized your attack on it as exactly the kind of bogus, disorderly, biased thought process you criticize when others do it.

[Yonivore]

Good comparison to the USA. Not.
So, all the terrorism, against America prior to our military engagement in Iraq and Afghanistan were just, what, paying it forward?

Islamic Extremism has always had a handy excuse for their violent tendencies.


There's the parsing I was talking about. That doesn't absolve us of moral responsibilty for war itself of legal responsibility for actions occurring outside the law of war.
And which other ideology start terrorizing the world because of a moral or legal failure during a legitimate war?


I never undertook to defend Islam. I only characterized your attack on it as exactly the kind of bogus, disorderly, biased thought process you criticize when others do it.
Could have fooled me.

[Yonivore]

But, I guess we do have an equivalent here in America...

Philly Abortion Doctor Facing 8 Counts Of Murder (http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2011/01/19/philly-doctor-facing-8-counts-of-murder/)


Dr. Kermit Gosnell, 69, faces eight counts of murder in the deaths of a woman following a botched abortion at his office, along with the deaths of seven other babies who, prosecutors allege, were born alive following illegal late-term abortions and then were killed by severing their spinal cords with a pair of scissors.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say, this guy's probably a Democrat with a left-leaning, liberal ideology.

[Spurminator]

Such civility!

[ChumpDumper]

They're all out to get poor yoni and Sarah Palin.

[Yonivore]

Ah! The politics of butchery begins to emerge...

From the Grand Jury Report (http://www.phila.gov/districtattorney/PDFs/GrandJuryWomensMedical.pdf)


We discovered that Pennsylvania’s Department of Health has deliberately chosen not to enforce laws that should afford patients at abortion clinics the same safeguards and assurances of quality health care as patients of other medical service providers. Even nail salons in Pennsylvania are monitored more closely for client safety.

The State Legislature has charged the Department of Health (DOH) with responsibility for writing and enforcing regulations to protect health and safety in abortion clinics as well as in hospitals and other health care facilities. Yet a significant difference exists between how DOH monitors abortion clinics and how it monitors facilities where other medical procedures are performed.

Indeed, the department has shown an utter disregard both for the safety of women who seek treatment at abortion clinics and for the health of fetuses after they have become viable. State health officials have also shown a disregard for the laws the department is supposed to enforce. Most appalling of all, the Department of Health’s neglect of abortion patients’ safety and of Pennsylvania laws is clearly not inadvertent: It is by design. …

State health officials knew that Gosnell and his clinic were offering unacceptable medical care to women and girls, yet DOH failed to take any action to stop the atrocities documented by this Grand Jury. These officials were far more protective of themselves when they testified before the Grand Jury. Even DOH lawyers, including the chief counsel, brought private attorneys with them – presumably at government expense.
State officials lawyering up...

[Winehole23]

So, all the terrorism, against America prior to our military engagement in Iraq and Afghanistan were just, what, paying it forward?We've been a force for good and ill in the region for quite some time. Our support of Israel and Arab strongmen have consequences.

Islamic Extremism has always had a handy excuse for their violent tendencies.Anyone with an imagination has an excuse.

And which other ideology start terrorizing the world because of a moral or legal failure during a legitimate war?Islam isn't an ideology. It's a religious faith. Like all faiths it can be used and abused.

[Winehole23]

Could have fooled me.Cheers to you, Yoni!



(drinks Bootlegger Brown)

[baseline bum]

I'm glad the Christians weren't able to protest at that 9 year-old's funeral.

[Winehole23]

Cheers to you too, baseline bum!

[Winehole23]

(swigs)

[Winehole23]

How about them San Antonio Spurs?