Reminder: Rick Perry wants to keep government out of your medical affairs......... [Archive]

coyotes_geek

01-24-2011, 04:20 PM

........unless of course you want to have a legal abortion in which case Perry wants the government to get involved in your medical affairs.

******************

Receiving the day's loudest and longest applause from thousands rallying against abortion, Gov. Rick Perry announced Saturday that he will designate as emergency legislation a bill requiring women seeking an abortion to first receive a sonogram of the fetus.

Viewing an image from the womb and listening to the sound of the heartbeat — also required under the legislation — would ensure that each woman "understands the full impact of her decision, a decision that can scar her" physically and emotionally, Perry said.

"When someone has all the information, the right choice will be made — the choice for life," Perry told the crowd outside the Capitol.

Saturday's Texas Rally for Life began with a downtown march — chanting, praying, singing and sign-toting protesters stretched more than seven blocks on streets closed to traffic — and ended at the Capitol's south steps, where Department of Public Safety troopers said they were told to expect a crowd of 4,000 to 5,000.

Bishop Joe Vasquez, head of the Austin Catholic Diocese, launched the rally with a prayer, saying, "We recommit ourselves in our efforts to change the law and provide protection for the most vulnerable ... the unborn."

Perry grew emotional recalling the impact of Roe v. Wade, the U.S. Supreme Court decision on abortion on Jan. 22, 1973.

"Since then, 50 million children have lost their chances," Perry said. "That is a catastrophic number, twice the population of this entire state."

The sonogram issue joins four other priorities Perry has designated for fast-track approval in the legislative session that began Jan. 11 — all dear to the Republican base and tea party members.

Perry also has called for a crackdown on so-called sanctuary cities for illegal immigrants, legislation to strengthen property-owner rights, tougher voter identification requirements at the polls and a resolution telling Congress to pass a balanced-budget amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

Democrats say Perry is using the issues as a distraction from news that Texas is $27 billion short of the money needed to continue current government services over the next two years. Bracing for budget cuts, public schools across the state are poised to lay off thousands of employees and close campuses, while doctors warn that proposed cuts could cause many physicians to stop seeing patients who are on Medicaid.

But on Saturday, Perry said the sonogram bill and other state efforts to limit access to abortion are essential to help women "before they make the biggest mistake of their lives."

Legislators cannot vote on bills during the first 60 days of a session unless they are declared an emergency by the governor.

Similar bills, introduced by Sen. Dan Patrick, R-Houston , passed the Senate in 2007 and 2009 but died in the House. With the emergency designation, Patrick predicted that his sonogram bill will become law this year.

"This is not a partisan issue. Protecting the lives of the unborn is a God issue," Patrick told the rally.

Sara Cleveland, executive director of NARAL Pro-Choice Texas , criticized Perry for attempting to interfere in doctor-patient relationships.

"It never ceases to amaze me what an unprincipled political opportunist our governor is. He's spent the past year decrying government interference in health care, but when it comes to interfering in women's health care, suddenly it's an emergency," Cleveland said.

"The government has no place in a doctor's office," she added.

Patrick's Senate Bill 16, and identical House legislation by Rep. Geanie Morrison, R-Victoria , would require pregnant women to receive a sonogram at least two hours before an abortion.

A doctor would have to explain the picture, pointing out internal organs, extremities and cardiac activity. If audible, the sound of the heartbeat also would have to be played.

Before receiving an abortion, the woman would have to sign a document acknowledging that she received the sonogram information and "understands the nature and consequences of an abortion," according to the bills.

[email protected]; 912-2569

Additional material from staff writer Jason Embry.

http://www.statesman.com/news/texas-politics/perry-names-another-fast-track-issue-pre-abortion-1203152.html

TeyshaBlue

01-24-2011, 04:23 PM

I hope that fucker runs for senate. He'd be obliterated and we'd finally rid ourselves of that buffoon.

Stringer_Bell

01-24-2011, 04:25 PM

Blake

01-24-2011, 04:25 PM

I hope that fucker runs for senate. He'd be obliterated and we'd finally rid ourselves of that buffoon.

sad thing is he probably has a better shot at eventually running for POTUS

TeyshaBlue

01-24-2011, 04:29 PM

sad thing is he probably has a better shot at eventually running for POTUS

I dunno. I figure Bush poisoned the electorate for several decades. It'll be awhile before another Tx. Gov. gets elected.:lol

MannyIsGod

01-24-2011, 04:29 PM

I think we should have Rick Perry personally have a conversation with every death row inmate that is killed on his watch.

What a fucking asshole.

coyotes_geek

01-24-2011, 04:29 PM

We should put abortion up for a vote. Let the people decide if they want to kill unborn children!

JK, abortion is protected, still not sure why there's such a debate over it. I don't agree with it, you shouldn't fuck anything you aren't 100% into having a child with even if its on accident. Yet all the same, it's a woman's right to choose and the hypocrisy put forth by these politicians is fucking ridiculous.

Agreed. I'll never be a party to an abortion, but that's my choice. Regardless of whether or not you believe it should be legal, it is. If you want to change the law, that's one thing. Go ahead and try. But getting the government involved in trying to talk people out of doing something that's completely legal is nothing more than a waste of resources during a time when resources are hard to come by.

Spurminator

01-24-2011, 04:31 PM

You know, if this was a matter of requiring that clinics give the woman the OPTION of seeing the sonogram first (which they probably have anyway), I wouldn't have as much of a problem with it. "You have to right to view a sonogram in preparation for this decision." No big deal there.

But you're seriously going to mandate that the woman be forced to see the sonogram, even if she doesn't want to, before she exercises her right to an abortion?

That's pretty fucked up.

P.S. Thread prediction: 11 pages.

coyotes_geek

01-24-2011, 04:31 PM

I dunno. I figure Bush poisoned the electorate for several decades. It'll be awhile before another Tx. Gov. gets elected.:lol

I can't see Perry winning a presidential election, but I can see him winning a republican primary.

MannyIsGod

01-24-2011, 04:37 PM

Perry just doing his best to make situations like this dont' go anywhere:

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170743

TeyshaBlue

01-24-2011, 04:39 PM

Perry just doing his best to make situations like this dont' go anywhere:

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170743

Holy fuck.

Stringer_Bell

01-24-2011, 04:40 PM

P.S. Thread prediction: 11 pages.

I think that's a generous prediction. No one is stupid enough to side with Perry once this gets to 5 pages.

MannyIsGod

01-24-2011, 04:41 PM

I think that's a generous prediction. No one is stupid enough to side with Perry once this gets to 5 pages.

Oh I don't know. We'll see how quickly Crookshanks can get here. I promise you she agrees with this action by Perry.

coyotes_geek

01-24-2011, 04:42 PM

Perry just doing his best to make situations like this dont' go anywhere:

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170743

I'll side with Perry on that one. What a sick fuck.

MannyIsGod

01-24-2011, 04:45 PM

I'll side with Perry on that one. What a sick fuck.

Huh? I'm pretty sure everyone thinks that guy is a sick fuck but the ultimate result of making legal abortions harder is a rise in illegal abortions.

Spurminator

01-24-2011, 04:45 PM

I think that's a generous prediction. No one is stupid enough to side with Perry once this gets to 5 pages.

Yonivore hasn't started posting yet.

coyotes_geek

01-24-2011, 04:55 PM

Huh? I'm pretty sure everyone thinks that guy is a sick fuck but the ultimate result of making legal abortions harder is a rise in illegal abortions.

My bad. Misunderstood your point. I agree with you.

boutons_deux

01-24-2011, 05:05 PM

The Federal govt has already "taken over health care" with Medicare, Medicaid, and Tristar/VA all of which get much higher marks for satisfaction than for-profit health insurers that charge the highest price for the shittiest product (health care).

Perry is just doing the usual pandering ignorant TX bubbas, many of whom already have had the rural telephone service, and sometime electricity service, subsidized socialistically for decades by the Feds and urbanites.

boutons_deux

01-24-2011, 05:08 PM

As Perry Bashed Recovery Act, Texas Relied Most Heavily On Recovery Act Funds To Fill Budget Hole

Turns out Texas was the state that depended the most on those very stimulus funds to plug nearly 97% of its shortfall for fiscal 2010, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. Texas, which crafts a budget every two years, was facing a $6.6 billion shortfall for its 2010-2011 fiscal years. It plugged nearly all of that deficit with $6.4 billion in Recovery Act money, allowing it to leave its $9.1 billion rainy day fund untouched.

http://thinkprogress.org/2011/01/24/perry-arra-97/

xrayzebra

01-24-2011, 05:14 PM

I think we should have Rick Perry personally have a conversation with every death row inmate that is killed on his watch.

What a fucking asshole.

I will volunteer to fill in for him. You wanna
go with me and tell them how we have screwed
over the poor guy being given the needle.

And then afterwords we will have coffee with the
victims family.

Okay!

ElNono

01-24-2011, 07:23 PM

EVAY

01-24-2011, 07:47 PM

This is truly an area where the government should stay out of the equation.

Abortion? I'm glad I never had to face the question.

But do think I should make the decision for someone else? NO WAY!!

EVAY

01-24-2011, 07:49 PM

I have never understood how people who claim to be in favor of 'less government' are in fact in favor of government deciding what women should do with their own bodies.

Never could understand that.

Are you in favor of limited government or not? That is the issue.

EVAY

01-24-2011, 07:51 PM

This is one of the issues that make me give up on Republicans.

Once you say that government should decide things like this, you say that governmnet can decide anything, so don't pretend to be against big government.

EVAY

01-24-2011, 07:52 PM

Oppose abortion all you want.

Oppose it with reason or faith.

Just don't oppose it with politics.

xrayzebra

01-24-2011, 08:04 PM

I just wonder why no one ask the person being aborted.
Guess they have no rights. According to law.

Winehole23

01-24-2011, 08:20 PM

Guess they have no rights. According to law.Historically, no. That would be an innovation.

Wild Cobra

01-24-2011, 08:55 PM

What's wrong with a sonogram? All he is wanting to do is show the woman that there is a beating heart, and the development of life, so she can make an actual informed decision.

LnGrrrR

01-24-2011, 08:58 PM

What's wrong with a sonogram? All he is wanting to do is show the woman that there is a beating heart, and the development of life, so she can make an actual informed decision.

Extra cost, for one thing. Also, if a woman doesn't want to look at the sonogram, then why should she have to? I think it's silly to mandate a sonogram by law.

Also, if a woman wants to make an informed decision, doesn't she have the liberty to inform herself? Pretty sure there's info about babies on the internet.

ElNono

01-24-2011, 09:19 PM

Extra cost, for one thing. Also, if a woman doesn't want to look at the sonogram, then why should she have to? I think it's silly to mandate a sonogram by law.

Also, if a woman wants to make an informed decision, doesn't she have the liberty to inform herself? Pretty sure there's info about babies on the internet.

Spot on. I would add the waste of time...

Spurminator

01-24-2011, 11:25 PM

If you want to force informed decisions by law, I suppose you would support mandating that pro-life centers explain to pregnant teenagers that abortion is an option, and the steps one would take to get an abortion?

coyotes_geek

01-25-2011, 11:35 AM

What's wrong with a sonogram? All he is wanting to do is show the woman that there is a beating heart, and the development of life, so she can make an actual informed decision.

So without the sonogram the woman can't be making an informed decision? Pretty sure that if she's made it to the abortion clinic she's already figured out that it's not a giant bran muffin that's growing inside of her.

George Gervin's Afro

01-25-2011, 12:49 PM

This is a very difficult thing to go through..so let's just add to it!

BlairForceDejuan

01-25-2011, 07:06 PM

wtf do republicans/"conservatives" want sancho littering the population with his offspring...whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

Reps/conservs and their gd obsession with abortion :bang

Nbadan

01-25-2011, 08:26 PM

I wouldn't put anything past this new wing-nut TX legislature...but this issue is so controversial I have a feeling that Perry is just pandering to the wing-nut base for a possible nomination in 2012 for V.P...

Told you a year ago....Palin/Perry 2012...

silverblk mystix

01-25-2011, 08:46 PM

...yet this fucknut has been re-elected yet again...

Texas voters.

FromWayDowntown

01-25-2011, 10:20 PM

I'd be curious how this law will be enforced; are we going to have bureaucrats hanging out in doctor's offices to ensure that pregnant women are shown these sonograms? Is there going to be a consequence if the doctor doesn't do it?

sickdsm

01-26-2011, 08:15 AM

You hear the stories from lots of women that have had an abortion how they think about it all the time the rest of their life.

I guess maybe i'm in a cave but I don't hear many women saying they wish they would have had an abortion.

I think its a lot of "close your eyes and its not really happening. Nothing wrong with a "is that your final answer?" picture to make sure you're not making it a lifetime regret for you.

Wondering what percent of the pro choice crowd hasn't had the life changing moment of holding their own newborn? I know a lot of my liberal friends have made the choice not to have any children.......

PublicOption

01-26-2011, 08:56 AM

ok rick.....stop medicaid and medicare tomorrow.......fuckhead.

PublicOption

01-26-2011, 08:57 AM

stop the Indian Health Service, VA and US armed forces medicine....yesterday.

stfu with your bullshit.

Spurminator

01-26-2011, 11:27 AM

You hear the stories from lots of women that have had an abortion how they think about it all the time the rest of their life.

I guess maybe i'm in a cave but I don't hear many women saying they wish they would have had an abortion.

Kind of a false dilemma there. For one thing I doubt there are many mothers who would say in public that they wish they had aborted their child. For another thing, you're giving no consideration to the many women who have gotten an abortion and DON'T regret it.

I think its a lot of "close your eyes and its not really happening. Nothing wrong with a "is that your final answer?" picture to make sure you're not making it a lifetime regret for you.

No there's nothing wrong with it, unless it's MANDATED BY THE STATE. If the woman wants to see a sonogram, she should be given that option, and she should be made aware that she has that option.

I mean should we require restaurants to show all customers a video of the process by which we turn cattle into hamburger meat? Should women have to read a brochure on how their makeup is made before they buy it?

The information is out there for those who wish to find it. It's up to the individual to seek it out, not the state to mandate what boils down to a guilt trip.

coyotes_geek

01-26-2011, 12:32 PM

Nothing wrong with a "is that your final answer?" picture to make sure you're not making it a lifetime regret for you.

That "is that your final answer" picture is a medical service that costs $200-$300 bucks to perform. Who gets to pick up that tab?

George Gervin's Afro

01-26-2011, 01:37 PM

That "is that your final answer" picture is a medical service that costs $200-$300 bucks to perform. Who gets to pick up that tab?

Don't look at me,

Sincerely,

Tea Potty member

MannyIsGod

01-26-2011, 01:48 PM

I guess maybe i'm in a cave but I don't hear many women saying they wish they would have had an abortion.

Yeah because I'm sure you're out there actually talking to women about their decision to have an abortion and I'm sure you're the type of person that they'd go to and open up about such a personal decision and their feelings after the fact.

Its not a cave, its a fucking black hole that you live in. I have no clue why you would even think this is something that helps your case.

I think its a lot of "close your eyes and its not really happening. Nothing wrong with a "is that your final answer?" picture to make sure you're not making it a lifetime regret for you.

I think this is a load of shit you're assuming. I don't think you have the slightest clue what women are thinking.

Wondering what percent of the pro choice crowd hasn't had the life changing moment of holding their own newborn? I know a lot of my liberal friends have made the choice not to have any children.......

I choose not to have children. That may change in the future but thats the way it is for now. Its definitely a life changing experience, but there is a reason the studies out there show that people who have children are less happy than those who don't have children.

If you want to have noisy little shits that are expensive as hell then thats fine, but I swear to god if there's one thing that I'm sure annoys a lot of people out there is the mindset that you're displaying.

I mean how in the hell could people actually make the choice to not have children and instead pursue careers and actually explore the world and do things that parents never have the opportunity to do? How could they possibly not be so in love with their own genetics that they feel the need to add mini me's to an already overpopulated globe? What the fuck is wrong with your liberal friends?

LnGrrrR

01-26-2011, 01:53 PM

I think its a lot of "close your eyes and its not really happening. Nothing wrong with a "is that your final answer?" picture to make sure you're not making it a lifetime regret for you.

There's a chance that, while regretting it, some mothers would still think it's the right thing to do.

LnGrrrR

01-26-2011, 01:56 PM

Its definitely a life changing experience, but there is a reason the studies out there show that people who have children are less happy than those who don't have children.

I think the whole "people with children are less happy" idea is somewhat misleading. I think the question should be whether people with children feel that it was worthwhile. I'm not "happy" when I'm given a difficult job at work, but I feel satisfaction/worth.

MannyIsGod

01-26-2011, 02:08 PM

ploto

01-26-2011, 02:52 PM

Being a political conservative can not go hand in hand with being a religious conservative who wants to impose those beliefs on others. Be consistent.

ploto

01-26-2011, 03:00 PM

My annoyance is with the prevelent view - and this is just a personal pet peeve - that you somehow can't be as happy or happier without children.

I know exactly what you mean. I even get it sometimes because I only have one child. I had a man I do not even know grill me at this fancy dinner about why I only have one child. Truth be told, I only ever got pregnant once in over a decade of marriage despite never using birth control, but it is none of his business whether it was by choice or circumstance.

coyotes_geek

01-26-2011, 03:03 PM

Don't look at me,

Sincerely,

Tea Potty member

Everyone should be saying that. This is a completely unneccessary procedure.

Spurminator

01-26-2011, 03:05 PM

Women should be making informed decisions unless they're informed by Planned Parenthood, which obviously should be shut down.

Betsy

01-26-2011, 03:42 PM

I agree with abortion when it comes to the health of the mom or if the mother was raped.
I was in the situation as when I got pregnant from my man and he said no baby go for the abortion. I then said no I would rather put the baby up for adoption then kill it before it was born. Of course the fucking prick said bye. He is nothing but a fucking asshole!

Kermit

01-26-2011, 03:55 PM

Women should be making informed decisions unless they're informed by Planned Parenthood, which obviously should be shut down.

Why?

LnGrrrR

01-26-2011, 04:09 PM

Just to be clear LnG, I think its perfectly possible to be happy with children and I honestly don't care which segment of parents or non parents is happier. My annoyance is with the prevelent view - and this is just a personal pet peeve - that you somehow can't be as happy or happier without children. Its such a crock of shit.

Yeah, that's understandable. I just hate the whole "people without children are happier on average" statement because that doesn't paint the whole picture.

Personally, I think I wouldn't be as happy, long-term, without kids. I look forward to watching my kid grow, and see how he responds. But I'm sure it's not for everyone, and it's certainly not easy. But nothing truly worthwhile in life is.

sickdsm

01-26-2011, 04:15 PM

That "is that your final answer" picture is a medical service that costs $200-$300 bucks to perform. Who gets to pick up that tab?

We spend tens of thousands of tax dollars to try to save a middle age guy from cancer but its ridiculous to spend a couple hundred to save an innocent baby from dying?

sickdsm

01-26-2011, 04:24 PM

Yeah because I'm sure you're out there actually talking to women about their decision to have an abortion and I'm sure you're the type of person that they'd go to and open up about such a personal decision and their feelings after the fact.

Its not a cave, its a fucking black hole that you live in. I have no clue why you would even think this is something that helps your case.

I think this is a load of shit you're assuming. I don't think you have the slightest clue what women are thinking.

I choose not to have children. That may change in the future but thats the way it is for now. Its definitely a life changing experience, but there is a reason the studies out there show that people who have children are less happy than those who don't have children.

If you want to have noisy little shits that are expensive as hell then thats fine, but I swear to god if there's one thing that I'm sure annoys a lot of people out there is the mindset that you're displaying.

I mean how in the hell could people actually make the choice to not have children and instead pursue careers and actually explore the world and do things that parents never have the opportunity to do? How could they possibly not be so in love with their own genetics that they feel the need to add mini me's to an already overpopulated globe? What the fuck is wrong with your liberal friends?

:lol:lol:lol

Dude tells me how I don't know women then gets pissy because my stereotype on him is dead on?

Someone that calls them "noisy little shits" isn't going to have any relevant input.

You seem the perfect candidate for a convenience abortion. You know, get rid of the fucking cancer in your girls stomach because a "noisy little shit" would interfere with going out to eat, museums, etc..... There is NO way one could possibly have a career with kids..... :rolleyes

As for that survey, anyone I know with kids feels the same as me. Life before kids seems fun, but it doesn't compare to afterwards.

MannyIsGod

01-26-2011, 04:24 PM

Its not a baby. Good try though!

Oh - the poor innocent baby!

You want to save some kids? Save the poor kids in the inner city who grow up without a fucking chance. How about you save them?

MannyIsGod

01-26-2011, 04:32 PM

:lol:lol:lol

Dude tells me how I don't know women then gets pissy because my stereotype on him is dead on?

Someone that calls them "noisy little shits" isn't going to have any relevant input.

You seem the perfect candidate for a convenience abortion. You know, get rid of the fucking cancer in your girls stomach because a "noisy little shit" would interfere with going out to eat, museums, etc..... There is NO way one could possibly have a career with kids..... :rolleyes

As for that survey, anyone I know with kids feels the same as me. Life before kids seems fun, but it doesn't compare to afterwards.

Actually I'm the kind of guy that makes sure I don't have to have an abortion so I guess that pretty much blows your stupid stereotype out of the water. Tell me, how many women have you spoken to about their abortions? Its not about whether you know women or not (although it really seems like you don't have a clue) but rather about how close minded you are.

Why on earth would a woman who was satisfied with her abortion come talk to you about it? When you look down upon those who don't want kids then I can only imagine the level of judgement you would levy upon a woman who had an abortion and DIDN'T feel it was the wrong decision. Being shocked that you don't know of many instances where this is the case would be like being shocked that the sky is blue.

You speak out of ignorance. You act as if your way is the only way to live. Did you even plan your kid or was it a mistake? If it was a mistake then I could easily say your new found "joy" is simply rationalization. Of course you don't want to think of life without the child as happy. You obviously can't go there, so why would you even consider it?

Of course you can have a career with a child. That doesn't mean that you can have the same career and that you can have the same opportunities. I love what I am going to research, and if I want to spend 60 hours in the lab and in the field I obviously can't do that with a child and still be there for it. I have priorities and a child isn't high on that list. Yet somehow, according to your stupid world view that makes me somehow less happy. I'm sorry, but I can build meaningful relationships with others and not have to have a child to do that.

The fact that you immediately dismiss my opinion on children because I don't like them is the most glaring example of how you only accept your view on children. You're completely cut off to the idea that children aren't the greatest thing since sliced bread and you exemplify the exact mindset I spoke of.

Congrats on knowing how to have sex without a condom or congrats on your wife forgetting to take a pill. Such a gateway to hapiness.

MannyIsGod

01-26-2011, 04:37 PM

As for that survey, anyone I know with kids feels the same as me. Life before kids seems fun, but it doesn't compare to afterwards.

Once again, because you seem completely like the kind of person people would confide in if they were unhappy about being a parent. Completely non judgmental and definitely with the personality that makes people feel at ease.

I would imagine people aren't breaking down your door to tell you their darkest secrets.

Spurminator

01-26-2011, 04:49 PM

Why?

Because.

mrsmaalox

01-26-2011, 04:54 PM

Yeah, that's understandable. I just hate the whole "people without children are happier on average" statement because that doesn't paint the whole picture.

Personally, I think I wouldn't be as happy, long-term, without kids. I look forward to watching my kid grow, and see how he responds. But I'm sure it's not for everyone, and it's certainly not easy. But nothing truly worthwhile in life is.

I think the people who say that the most are people without children. :lol

People want different things out of their lives. Fine. But I don't think Manny seriously believes that "pursuing careers and exploring the world" are options to only the childless; maybe just a heat of the moment statement because I'm sure he knows as many people who have done it as I do.

Having done all those things myself, I believe that none would have been nearly as fulfulling without the others. But that's me. I am certain, however, that the choice to do what I wanted, when I wanted is what contributed to the satisfaction I get from those accomplishments.

And the decision of "what" and "when" women do with their lives is what they are trying to take away. And that is wrong.

Spurminator

01-26-2011, 04:56 PM

We spend tens of thousands of tax dollars to try to save a middle age guy from cancer but its ridiculous to spend a couple hundred to save an innocent baby from dying?

Or you could be spending a couple hundred dollars on a temporary guilt trip that may cause the woman to reconsider her choice for another couple of months, then be forced to get an illegal abortion when she changes her mind again.

TeyshaBlue

01-26-2011, 04:58 PM

This whole conversation is pretty funny. Happiness....as if we all share a common definition of happiness.:lol

I've been on both sides. When I was touring, I led a pretty care-free life...saw the world, didn't have to hassle with the daily grind, earned a nice living doing something I really enjoyed, even made a couple of good friends along the way. But towards the end of that period of my life, I kept thinking "Man, I wish I could just have a fucking normal life...come home @ 5:00..sit and watch the news with my wife and have some kids".
I'm doing that now...and I'm just as happy as I was before...it's just a different kind of happiness....swapping one set of problems for another.

MannyIsGod

01-26-2011, 04:58 PM

I think the people who say that the most are people without children. :lol

People want different things out of their lives. Fine. But I don't think Manny seriously believes that "pursuing careers and exploring the world" are options to only the childless; maybe just a heat of the moment statement because I'm sure he knows as many people who have done it as I do.

Having done all those things myself, I believe that none would have been nearly as fulfulling without the others. But that's me. I am certain, however, that the choice to do what I wanted, when I wanted is what contributed to the satisfaction I get from those accomplishments.

And the decision of "what" and "when" women do with their lives is what they are trying to take away. And that is wrong.

If you think I believe that then I think you should read what I actually posted. I pretty much spelled it out in two separate posts.

I agree with the rest of your post.

mrsmaalox

01-26-2011, 05:22 PM

George Gervin's Afro

01-26-2011, 05:26 PM

So do the pro-lifers support social programs for babies that are born?

LnGrrrR

01-26-2011, 05:27 PM

:lol

Winehole23

01-26-2011, 05:28 PM

So do the pro-lifers support social programs for babies that are born?Patronizing.

Jekka

01-26-2011, 05:29 PM

As for that survey, anyone I know with kids feels the same as me. Life before kids seems fun, but it doesn't compare to afterwards.

61% of women having an abortion already have at least one child, and 34% have more than one child. http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/US-Abortion-Patients.pdf

George Gervin's Afro

01-26-2011, 05:30 PM

Patronizing.

I am being serious. I hear the pro-lifers proclaiming to speak for the unborn.. yet they seem to scoff at any social program spending...

Jekka

01-26-2011, 05:32 PM

Patronizing.

Possibly, but also valid. If you're going to prevent a woman from aborting a child that she can't support then there needs to be a system in place to give the child similar conditions to another child that was planned and wanted. Otherwise you're punishing the child for being born, a decision he/she had absolutely nothing to do with.

George Gervin's Afro

01-26-2011, 05:35 PM

On a side note, I am for any program that stops people from getting pregnant. This in the end decreases abortions as a whole. With that being said the people who are pro life typically are against any type of birth control being available on the public dime..

TeyshaBlue

01-26-2011, 05:36 PM

Possibly, but also valid. If you're going to prevent a woman from aborting a child that she can't support then there needs to be a system in place to give the child similar conditions to another child that was planned and wanted. Otherwise you're punishing the child for being born, a decision he/she had absolutely nothing to do with.

This is predicated upon the premise that there are women being "prevented" from having an abortion.

I'm not sure this is the case. Are there women who might want or need one but can't afford one? Almost certainly. But who's preventing who?

When you can, with certainty name the who, then you better be sure the who's don't have some support programs in place.

George Gervin's Afro

01-26-2011, 05:38 PM

This is predicated upon the premise that there are women being "prevented" from having an abortion.

I'm not sure this is the case. Are there women who might want or need one but can't afford one? Almost certainly. But who's preventing who?

When you can, with certainty name the who, then you better be sure the who's don't have some support programs in place.

My point is that if pro-lifers are successful and take away the right to choose..then what?

MannyIsGod

01-26-2011, 05:39 PM

Maalox, I apparently cannot read worth a damn. I'm an idiot.

George Gervin's Afro

01-26-2011, 05:39 PM

Malox, then you're calling me either a liar or incapable of what I believe. Or maybe you know me better than I know myself?

:lmao

MannyIsGod

01-26-2011, 05:40 PM

God damn it I even edited it fast as hell.

Its a good thing I'm not procreating.

TeyshaBlue

01-26-2011, 05:40 PM

My point is that if pro-lifers are successful and take away the right to choose..then what?

I'm fairly certain that won't happen...in either case, pro-lifers do provide services for support.

MannyIsGod

01-26-2011, 05:42 PM

This is predicated upon the premise that there are women being "prevented" from having an abortion.

I'm not sure this is the case. Are there women who might want or need one but can't afford one? Almost certainly. But who's preventing who?

When you can, with certainty name the who, then you better be sure the who's don't have some support programs in place.

Rick Perry's legislation is absolutely about abortion prevention. What on earth else could it be?

George Gervin's Afro

01-26-2011, 05:42 PM

God damn it I even edited it fast as hell.

Its a good thing I'm not procreating.

then I take away ...:lmao

TeyshaBlue

01-26-2011, 05:44 PM

Rick Perry's legislation is absolutely about abortion prevention. What on earth else could it be?

No, it's about making it even harder than it already is.
It's stupid. It's petty. It's blindingly short-sighted and ludicrous in concept and likely worse in execution. But it's not prevention....not by a long shot.

TeyshaBlue

01-26-2011, 05:45 PM

God damn it I even edited it fast as hell.

Its a good thing I'm not procreating.

:lmao:lmao

Jekka

01-26-2011, 05:47 PM

No, it's about making it even harder than it already is.
It's stupid. It's petty. It's blindingly short-sighted and ludicrous in concept and likely worse in execution. But it's not prevention....not by a long shot.

But if you're trying to make it harder for someone to do something that you don't approve of, then in what instance would you NOT be trying to prevent them from doing it? Do you just want to make them feel guilty about it? Because I don't credit Rick Perry with the savvy to be so passive aggressive.

TeyshaBlue

01-26-2011, 05:48 PM

TeyshaBlue

01-26-2011, 05:49 PM

But if you're trying to make it harder for someone to do something that you don't approve of, then in what instance would you NOT be trying to prevent them from doing it? Do you just want to make them feel guilty about it? Because I don't credit Rick Perry with the savvy to be so passive aggressive.

Are you kidding me? Perry is the poster-child for Passive-Aggressiveness.

There's a fine line between prevention and discouragement.....perhaps I'm just not in tune enough with the issue to see it.

mingus

01-26-2011, 05:50 PM

condoms should be put in the happy meals of kids who live in ghettos and in white trash areas.

Winehole23

01-26-2011, 05:53 PM

Oh, yeah. That'll work.

ChumpDumper

01-26-2011, 10:06 PM

sickdsm wants to pay for over $200 million worth of medical procedures with this farm subsidies.

jack sommerset

01-26-2011, 10:10 PM

George says his property taxes pays for my health insurance.

ChumpDumper

01-26-2011, 10:13 PM

George says his property taxes pays for my health insurance.In your hypothetical, it would have -- as well as insurance premiums he paid.

jack sommerset

01-26-2011, 10:15 PM

In your hypothetical, it would have -- as well as insurance premiums he paid.

He said it pays for it now. Funny, ain't it.

ChumpDumper

01-26-2011, 10:17 PM

He said it pays for it now. Funny, ain't it.Depends on how things are accounted for.

Proxy

01-27-2011, 01:17 AM

In order to prevent teens having kids, we need to completely change the sex-ed courses in school. Instead of trying to scare kids with HIV stats and preaching abstinence, we need to educate kids on safe sex.

Abortions are the choice of the woman. Not "God." Not the gov't. A very small percentage of abortions are performed in the US during the early stages of the 2nd trimester.... with the huge majority taking place in the first trimester.

sickdsm

01-27-2011, 08:04 AM

sickdsm wants to pay for over $200 million worth of medical procedures with this farm subsidies.

Sure, I guess. Is that supposed to be a snide comment directed at me? Or are you just assuming I'd get mad over something that?

George Gervin's Afro

01-27-2011, 09:00 AM

He said it pays for it now. Funny, ain't it.

what's funny is that you don't get it..

Viva Las Espuelas

03-10-2011, 10:22 AM

I don't know if anyone saw but this thing passed. Don't know if it was amended in anyway.

coyotes_geek

03-10-2011, 10:38 AM

I don't know if anyone saw but this thing passed. Don't know if it was amended in anyway.

Last I heard it was still going to be mandatory that the doctor do the sonogram and describe to the woman what he sees, but the woman could elect to not look at the picture or listen to the heartbeat.

Still a completely BS law IMO.

CosmicCowboy

03-10-2011, 11:27 AM

TeyshaBlue

03-10-2011, 11:38 AM

The term "Talibaptists" is gaining popularity in my neck of the woods.:lol

Wild Cobra

03-10-2011, 11:53 AM

The abortion issue is the Republicans biggest albatross. They need to get over it. R vs. W never will or should be overturned. They need to just shut the fuck up and forget about. Bottom line, it's a terrible decision to have to make, but it's every persons right to make that decision for themselves.
We disagree. I can only go along with things on the line of "the morning after pill." People need to learn responsibility for their actions. Sometimes, the hardest lessons in life are the best ones.

P6UVhZTTWb0

CosmicCowboy

03-10-2011, 12:10 PM

We disagree. I can only go along with things on the line of "the morning after pill." People need to learn responsibility for their actions. Sometimes, the hardest lessons in life are the best ones.

P6UVhZTTWb0
"Learn responsibility for their actions" in that context is a euphemism for punishing them for having sex. Funny, considering the uproar over Obama's comments about not wanting his girls to be punished for a mistake. I guess you both believe that having a baby can be punishment for having sex.

Wild Cobra

03-10-2011, 12:13 PM

"Learn responsibility for their actions" in that context is a euphemism for punishing them for having sex. Funny, considering the uproar over Obama's comments about not wanting his girls to be punished for a mistake. I guess you both believe that having a baby can be punishment for having sex.
I don't say this for belief of punishment, but rather the sanctity of innocent life. May as well give 14 year olds guns without instructing them how to use them if that's all the better you value life.

We all need to learn responsibility for our actions. If a girl or woman doesn't want to raise a child, there are plenty of families out there who want to adopt newborns.

clambake

03-10-2011, 12:19 PM

I don't say this for belief of punishment, but rather the sanctity of innocent life. May as well give 14 year olds guns without instructing them how to use them if that's all the better you value life.

We all need to learn responsibility for our actions. If a girl or woman doesn't want to raise a child, there are plenty of families out there who want to adopt newborns.

and yet you would happily shoot children crossing the border.

innocent life.

Wild Cobra

03-10-2011, 12:25 PM

and yet you would happily shoot children crossing the border.

innocent life.
It becomes a deterrent once it starts taking place. Don't need to target children, the parents would stop trying to bring them across. Once the words out, it would radically slow down illegal immigration.

MannyIsGod

03-10-2011, 12:26 PM

lol creed.

Marcus Bryant

03-10-2011, 12:26 PM

The child in the womb is an unique individual. In the general course of nature that child will live a long life. Yes, it is dependent on the mother. It's also dependent on others for its survival outside the womb.

A majority of Americans are personally opposed to abortion, and IIRC, a majority are in favor of the status quo WRT abortion's legality. Naturally, Americans have an aversion to the interjection of the state into family life, though that's a fading instinct which will be gone in a generation.

Abortion, as it is practiced, results in the termination of non-white individuals at rates far in excess of those of whites. A reality in which white "progressives" clamor for the support of an organization which purposely locates itself in majority, poor non-white neighborhoods to exterminate large numbers of non-white children would seem like a Klansman's fantasy come true. Jesse Jackson once thought so until his patrons didn't want to hear that anymore.

In American culture, new life is ultimately seen as an additional material cost, a limitation on an individual's freedom, rather than a blessing, and this cuts across many socioeconomic groups. As it relates to public policy, abortion is a de facto method to manage the poor population.

coyotes_geek

03-10-2011, 12:27 PM

The abortion issue is the Republicans biggest albatross. They need to get over it. R vs. W never will or should be overturned. They need to just shut the fuck up and forget about. Bottom line, it's a terrible decision to have to make, but it's every persons right to make that decision for themselves.

I'd say it's not just abortion. It's the republicans entire social agenda.

Marcus Bryant

03-10-2011, 12:28 PM

Americans don't want to live for anyone other than themselves. The revolution is complete.

MannyIsGod

03-10-2011, 12:29 PM

It becomes a deterrent once it starts taking place. Don't need to target children, the parents would stop trying to bring them across. Once the words out, it would radically slow down illegal immigration.

I agree, TBH. If they had to risk their lives to come over they might reevaluate their decisions!

http://jacqui.instablogs.com/entry/faces-of-death-realities-and-images-of-illegal-immigration/

MannyIsGod

03-10-2011, 12:31 PM

Marcus Bryant

03-10-2011, 12:32 PM

That's the result, is it not?

CosmicCowboy

03-10-2011, 12:33 PM

It is what it is. I don't remember seeing any planed parenthood offices out in Stone Oak...

CosmicCowboy

03-10-2011, 12:34 PM

Marcus Bryant

03-10-2011, 12:35 PM

It's a less messy issue when the discussion is about it being an ethereal right to choose rather than the poor woman's preferred choice of birth control, promoted by a putatively forward thinking organization.

Wild Cobra

03-10-2011, 12:38 PM

Really? This is your stance? Abortion is there to keep the brown people in check? Amazing.
I ran across this perception too, from people. many are in agreement that poor families are actually targeted by the likes of planned parenthood. The end result is blacks get far more abortions per capita than whites. Racist intent or not, it does cull the black population more than any other.

MannyIsGod

03-10-2011, 12:39 PM

Viva Las Espuelas

03-10-2011, 12:39 PM

It is what it is. I don't remember seeing any planed parenthood offices out in Stone Oak...

It'd lower the property value, CC :lmao

It's funny. Everytime I go home from work I always get a chuckle out of this one strip mall square I pass by. There's a bar on one side, a planned parenthood on another and a weight watchers on the other. :lol Interpret how you'd like.

MannyIsGod

03-10-2011, 12:39 PM

it's a less messy issue when the discussion is about it being an ethereal right to choose rather than the poor woman's preferred choice of birth control, promoted by a putatively forward thinking organization.

promoted?

MannyIsGod

03-10-2011, 12:41 PM

http://www.google.com/maps/vt/data=LtgX-e3f8ctI3U5dJtbt7EJ1ZfRneYme,nO_oIBz0qgpSFEvGJ2J2Zj 4mxvp8Tnz5YKNnZj_LNyk1yYsxE-IqQwPcHcHSEZc83KJssmCRcix0TRjIZd0PJs0BBkXOke_am1iB VLyjKHq6C215TMIrrw4khPxi544aiLuI-I_MhPP04OkPAScp-T0n-dNREGIhWVeecXzoJ0YdUtkb8RHiTUeYXRpW61xJvZaWpDTjPA4 trMiz6S0fqALTbmJwAw

Your implying there are no abortions done in Stone Oak?

Thats like saying I don't see any Kia Dealerships out in Stone Oak so no one there must drive a car.

CosmicCowboy

03-10-2011, 12:43 PM

Your implying there are no abortions done in Stone Oak?

Thats like saying I don't see any Kia Dealerships out in Stone Oak so no one there must drive a car.

I didn't imply anything. I thought we were discussing planned parenthood targeting minorities?

Wild Cobra

03-10-2011, 12:46 PM

MB, you and I don't see eye to eye on very many things but the idea that abortion is a white progressive's method of keeping the brown people in check is one of the weirdest stances you've ever come up with.

If the abortion numbers do support your stance, and I don't know because I've never looked at a demographic breakdown, then I think you need a refresher on causation and correlation. If minorities are having more abortions than whites (and this seems reasonable to be quite honest) then it likely has more to do with increased birth rates stemming from several factors including poverty, lower education levels, etc etc.
Consider the state run and paid for clinics. Anyplace you go, you have unwritten rules. Statistically, a black child will have a far greater chance of being a tax burden than a white child. especially from a the poorer people who generally use state run agencies. I honestly believe myself that there is more racial bias among liberals than conservatives. They just never show it, and you rarely ever see anyone show true signs of racism. It's almost always manufactured, or perceived. Anyway, someone who is in those decision making positions have a unique opportunity to use their racism if they have it. I would not attempt to quantify it, I just understand that people abuse positions of power, and this is the perfect place for a racist. I believe most the decisions are based on financial outlook rather than racism however. This is a prejudice, but that's not the same as racism.

Viva Las Espuelas

03-10-2011, 12:47 PM

Pretty interesting readings if you look up the history of Planned Parenthood and it's kind founder, Margaret Sanger.

MannyIsGod

03-10-2011, 12:49 PM

Wild Cobra

03-10-2011, 12:49 PM

Pretty interesting readings if you look up the history of Planned Parenthood and it's kind founder, Margaret Sanger.

Oh...

I completely forgot to mention that cunt.

MannyIsGod

03-10-2011, 12:49 PM

Viva Las Espuelas

03-10-2011, 01:02 PM

You brought up planned parenthood.I don't know if this is directed towards me. It probably is since you tend to openly respond to me for whatever reason. Anywho, CC brought up planned parenthood.

CosmicCowboy

03-10-2011, 01:03 PM

You brought up planned parenthood. MB brought up abortion being a white progressives method of keeping the brown people in check.

Planned Parenthood is a nonprofit, CC. They're in those neighborhoods not to target, as you put it, but rather because thats where the people need access to low cost services. The people in Stone Oak just go to their OB GYN.

Oh c'mon Manny...MB said...

A reality in which white "progressives" clamor for the support of an organization which purposely locates itself in majority, poor non-white neighborhoods to exterminate large numbers of non-white children would seem like a Klansman's fantasy come true.

Who did you THINK he was talking about?

MannyIsGod

03-10-2011, 01:08 PM

I don't know if this is directed towards me. It probably is since you tend to openly respond to me for whatever reason. Anywho, CC brought up planned parenthood.

It was directed at CC but I did actually LOL at the thought of me paying you special attention. I'm equal opportunity.

MannyIsGod

03-10-2011, 01:11 PM

Oh c'mon Manny...MB said...

Who did you THINK he was talking about?

Fair enough, CC.

Wild Cobra

03-10-2011, 01:23 PM

The campaign for birth control is not merely of eugenic value, but is practically identical with the final aims of eugenics.... We are convinced that racial regeneration, like individual regeneration, must come 'from within.' That is, it must be autonomous, self-directive, and not imposed from without.

---

Negro participation in planned parenthood means democratic participation in a democratic idea. Like other democratic ideas, planned parenthood places greater value on human life and the dignity of each person. Without planning at birth, the life of Negroes as a whole in a democratic world cannot be planned.

---

As an advocate of birth control I wish ... to point out that the unbalance between the birth rate of the 'unfit' and the 'fit,' admittedly the greatest present menace to civilization, can never be rectified by the inauguration of a cradle competition between these two classes. In this matter, the example of the inferior classes, the fertility of the feebleminded, the mentally defective, the poverty-stricken classes, should not be held up for emulation.

---

The most merciful thing that a family does to one of its infant members is to kill it

----

Birth control must lead ultimately to a cleaner race

---

We should hire three or four colored ministers, preferably with social-service backgrounds, and with engaging personalities. The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal. We don't want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population. and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members.

---

Eugenic sterilization is an urgent need ... We must prevent multiplication of this bad stock

---

Eugenics is … the most adequate and thorough avenue to the solution of racial, political and social problems

apLjGQnTVg8

8CJqPpTCYO4

Viva Las Espuelas

03-10-2011, 02:00 PM

"progress"ives lol

0Av6D6Cs8SY

RandomGuy

03-10-2011, 02:19 PM

It is what it is. I don't remember seeing any planed parenthood offices out in Stone Oak...

You generally won't in areas where people tend to have health insurance.

RandomGuy

03-10-2011, 02:23 PM

apLjGQnTVg8

8CJqPpTCYO4

Meh. Sanger was a white person alive around 1900. Her views were not altogether unique concerning eugenics.

Bartleby

03-10-2011, 02:26 PM

Meh. Sanger was a white person alive around 1900. Her views were not altogether unique concerning eugenics.

In fact, they weren't much different than Teddy Roosevelt's.

Bartleby

03-10-2011, 02:26 PM

Viva Las Espuelas

03-10-2011, 02:27 PM

Meh. Sanger was a white person alive around 1900. Her views were not altogether unique concerning eugenics.

http://www.google.com/m/search?source=mog&hl=en&gl=us&client=safari&q=planned%20parenthood

Yeah. Nothing unique about her at all. I'm not sure why you had to point out she was white but I guess that's how you roll.

FuzzyLumpkins

03-10-2011, 03:40 PM

Rick Perry --born 1950-- is a baby boomer.

CosmicCowboy

03-10-2011, 03:44 PM

We get it. FuzzyLumpkins is all butt hurt over baby boomers.

FuzzyLumpkins

03-10-2011, 03:48 PM

We get it. FuzzyLumpkins is all butt hurt over baby boomers.

You get it.

I really do not give a shit what you have to say if you do not even try and have a discourse.

Born before 1960?

Marcus Bryant

03-10-2011, 07:15 PM

MB, you and I don't see eye to eye on very many things

I'm not sure of that. You are still "libertarian" no?

but the idea that abortion is a white progressive's method of keeping the brown people in check is one of the weirdest stances you've ever come up with.

That is the outcome. As for intent, we'll have to assume that most are ignorant of, or oblivious to, how abortion rates differ drastically among different races. Further, we'll have to assume that an organization who provides these services to poor women is not aware of those differing rates.

For example, in 2006, the rate among African-Americans was 3.5 times higher than among whites and 2.5x greater than the entire US population (Table 99.) (http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2011/tables/11s0099.pdf)

666k children born to African-American mothers in 2006. (http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2011/tables/11s0080.pdf)

20.25 million African-American female citizens in 2007. (http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2011/tables/11s0006.pdf)

45% of African-Americans are aged 15-44. (http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2011/tables/11s0009.pdf)

Assume that 9.16 million African-American women are between the ages of 15 and 44.

Based on an abortion rate of 50.2 per 1,000 African-American women aged 15-44, that's approximately 458k pregnancies of African-American women (40.7% of all African-American pregnancies) that were ended by abortion in 2006.

If the abortion numbers do support your stance, and I don't know because I've never looked at a demographic breakdown, then I think you need a refresher on causation and correlation.

I need no such thing.

If minorities are having more abortions than whites (and this seems reasonable to be quite honest) then it likely has more to do with increased birth rates stemming from several factors including poverty, lower education levels, etc etc.

Of course it couldn't happen to have anything to do with the location of facilities in the African-American community by an organization offering abortion services. The results are appalling and have been a de facto genocide of an entire generation of African-Americans, no matter the rationalization.

Now we have to pretend that most are unaware of the magnitude of abortions among African-American women, in particular those who provide them and those who stridently advocate its legality. Benign ignorance, I guess, is the best defense.

Yes, this is not to say that there are not good arguments for restraining the reach of the state in family matters. But antiseptic arguments about "choice" fail to touch on the stark reality of abortion as it is practiced in these United States.

We presume good intentions for policy makers and advocates, and that a distressing result such as this would weigh heavily on one's conscience.

The Klan could not have created a better program for its goals, regardless of whatever factors you think will cloud the practice as it is.