This Game is Fixed.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Double T? What fucking lame ass bullshit is that?

:pctoss :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss

Where is the T on Manu in all that? For wrapping him up?

[PM5K]

No kidding...

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Now I know how Sacramento felt a few years back against LA.

[Jimcs50]

the worst officiating ever

[Jimcs50]

Amare went right over Parker

[E20]

Jim it's your fault for wanting the Suns to win.

[Guru of Nothing]

TimVP is gonna hate you fellas.

Amare is cute.

[Jimcs50]

This is why the NBA is not popular.

The refs are incompetent for the most part.

They blew 3 calls in last 1min 30 secs and it cost the Spurs their comeback win.

[Jimcs50]

Jim it's your fault for wanting the Suns to win.

I know, I offered the refs half my vBookie money to put in the fix

[Das Texan]

That had to be one of the biggest pieces of shit in recent history.

[Spurminator]

Probably for flopping. In fact, I wouldn't have T'd Amare at all. Just Manu.

That shit is uncalled for. I'm all for trying to draw fouls, but baiting the refs into calling a Technical or Flagrant is the kind of shit all NBA fans should hate.

[whottt]

Manu flopped like a motherfucker on that play...It was an excellent flop but the Spurs did too much flopping in crunch time tonight...the refs weren't calling it...and they really didn't call it all night long.

If the game was fixed you think we'd up 3-0 right now?

Was the fix in on our two titles as well?


Psssst....we missed 12 free throws, we shot under 50% from the FT line...and lost by 3 points...

Phoenix was just flat out the better team tonight...Accept it.

[NASHville]

The Suns fixed the Spurs wagon is what happened!!

The Officials gave the Spurs all the free throws they just couldn't make them.

[Jdspur20]

i don't understand why they didn't call a over-the-back foul on amare under the basket.

[Jimcs50]

Probably for flopping. In fact, I wouldn't have T'd Amare at all. Just Manu.

That shit is uncalled for. I'm all for trying to draw fouls, but baiting the refs into calling a Technical or Flagrant is the kind of shit all NBA fans should hate.

Bullshit, he dod not flop, he was pushed

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

You're a fag Spurminator.

Amare threw him down. Whether Manu exaggerated it a little or not, that's still a bullshit call.

And at the other end, Amare went over Tony's back for the rebound, then flat out ran over Bowen on the sideline for the ball, no call.

[Dre_7]

Refs F'ed it up, but Spurs shouldnt have played like crap the 1st 3 qtrs.

[Spurgal]

This Game is Fixed.

NBA wants more $$$

[Jdspur20]

The Suns fixed the Spurs wagon is what happened!!

The Officials gave the Spurs all the free throws they just couldn't make them.

oh ok, keep telling yourself that :rolleyes

[orhe]

nah he flopped :)
but that forearm on TP was an offensive IMO

[ALVAREZ6]

amare is a chump ass fucker. someone shoot the fucker.

[Jimcs50]

what about the call on Bowen?

The Amare offensive foul over Parker?

the over the back reb at the end?

[Spurminator]

Are you guys fucking blind? Amare had his back turned and his arms wrapped around the ball. Unless he has some contortionist ability to punch someone with his shoulder blade, that was all Manu. Pull your heads out of your asses.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Call Manu an actor, how did he "act" out Amare's elbow/shoulder block?

[Jimcs50]

This is bullshit...I am sick of games like this when Stern in in crowd.

He tells them to extend the series, and they did.

[NASHville]

Make your free throws and you all wouldn't be bitching.

[Jimcs50]

If not fixed, then the refs are just stupid blind dumbfucks...which is even worse, IMO.

[bigbendbruisebrother]

Jim it's your fault for wanting the Suns to win.

Bingo that.

[E20]

Fuck, half all y'all mother fuckers calling out Ginobili if you fucks try to 'act' like Ginobili you'd be fucking paralayzed for the rest of your life.

[Nikos]

Manu did not flop on that play.

[whottt]

I can't believe anyone actually thinks the Spurs were the better team tonight.

Talk about myopia...THEY MISSED 12 FUCKING FREE THROWS!!!!!!!! THEY SHOT 47% FROM THE FUCKING FT LINE!!!! THAT WAS WHY THEY LOST AND THERE WAS NO OTHER REASON FOR IT!!! WE DESRVE TO LOSE IF WE CAN"T EVEN HIT 50% FROM THE FUCKING FT LINE IN A GAME WE CAN ELIMINATE OUR OPPONENTS!

[Jimcs50]

Are you guys fucking blind? Amare had his back turned and his arms wrapped around the ball. Unless he has some contortionist ability to punch someone with his shoulder blade, that was all Manu. Pull your heads out of your asses.


I have it on tape.

Watch it again, asshole.

He fucking pushed Manu down with his shoulders and forearms.

[Dre_7]

Spurs didnt lose cuz of the refs, it wasnt fixed. We played like crap for most of the game. We deserved to lose. If we play like the 1st 3 games, those bad calls dont affect us. We lost cuz of 1st 2nd and 3rd qtr, and missed FT's, plain and simple.

[beirmeistr]

Stoudemire had 7 or 8 fouls in that game. But the refs like him. Still, when Duncan has a shitty game and parker makes a few mistakes, the Suns took advantage of the situation and plain beat the Spurs.

[cqsallie]

I'm way too pissed off to talk about this game. So stupid! Such a waste of effort!
I simply can't understand why a team that so handily defeated an opponent, just sagged...
Love to you all; talk to you all again soon.

[HB22inSA]

Typical Spurs letdown.

Spurs were up 3-0, and up by 7 at halftime, and had momentum.

Just like always, they lay an egg in the third and have no killer instinct.

It's not the refs, it'sthe Spurs own fault for playing soft...again and again and again.

[Jimcs50]

Spurs didnt lose cuz of the refs, it wasnt fixed. We played like crap for most of the game. We deserved to lose. If we play like the 1st 3 games, those bad calls dont affect us. We lost cuz of 1st 2nd and 3rd qtr, and missed FT's, plain and simple.


Spurs won 2nd and 4th Qs...get your facts straight.

[whottt]

And Manu did flop...Spurminator was dead on.

I don't think any techs should have been called period on that play and Manu did foul him...so did Duncan.

And they were still on him even after the ref blew the whistle...

I give Manu props for trying to make something out of nothing...but it damn sure isn't something we should blaming the refs for...I'm glad they got it right...I hope we get them in a game we don't play like shit in.

[ducks]

refs did not cost the w
spurs missed free throws duncan sucked
tp could not hit a jumper
beno was effective in first half but pop would not go to him at all in third except last 24 seconds
barry was a nonfactor tonight

but as bad as the spurs played suns won by 5

[Dre_7]

Spurs won 2nd and 4th Qs...get your facts straight.

Yeah but they didnt play aggresive and w/ passion until the 4th!

And I said 1-3th qtrs, I said nothing about the 4th.

The game WASNT FIXED!!!!

[ALVAREZ6]

This is so much crap.

The Spurs take so fucking long to regain a lead, or tie the game back up...almost 24 minutes.

The suns on the other hand will catch up to you in 2 minutes, when they're down 10 points. incredible.

I was so happy when the Spurs closed out the 1st half the right way, on a nice scoring run.

What happens in the first 3 minutes of the 3rd...we give them the lead. woo hoo!

[Nikos]

Amare made a violent push off of Manu. There is no way he flopped. If he flopped on that, then he flops on every single play. The whole point was that Manu was wrapped on Amare, and the team was down -- so naturally since it resulted in FTs it makes him look bad. But Manu flopped no more on that play then any other. If he did, then hes never drawn an offensive foul before.

[Jimcs50]

And Manu did flop...Spurminator was dead on.

I don't think any techs should have been called period on that play and Manu did foul him...so did Duncan.

Manu is outweighed by 50 lbs...you try to not fall down when that fucker hits you with his shoulders and forearms.

Damn, you fuckers are stupid asses sometimes...it is physics...

[Spurminator]

He fucking pushed Manu down with his shoulders and forearms.

His shoulders were above Manu and his forearms were on the ball. At no point in that play did his forearm hit Manu.

Check your VCR again. I have it TiVoed.

[Jimcs50]

His shoulders were above Manu and his forearms were on the ball. At no point in that play did his shoulder or his forearm hit Manu.

Check your VCR again. I have it TiVoed.

That is bullshit....just look at it damn it.

[whottt]

LMAO fucking hilarious Jim...

Manu went totally airborn on that fucking play...you don't understand physics...that shit Manu all the way. He knew how important getting THAT posession was...he knew Amare was gonna get the foul(because the refs called it)...and he tried make something out of nothing.


Manu should not even have been on Amare....the whistle was blown.

[Dre_7]

The game wasnt fixed!!! (well unless Timmy missed his FT's on purpose)

[Jimcs50]

What about the offensive foul non call over TP on Amare's last basket???

[Jimcs50]

LMAO fucking hilarious Jim...

Manu went totally airborn on that fucking play...you don't understand physics...that shit Manu all the way. He knew how important getting THAT posession was...he knew Amare was gonna get the foul(because the refs called it)...and he tried make something out of nothing.


Manu should not even have been on Amare....the whistle was blown.


The whistle had not blown..TD did not get the foul, Manu did.

[Spurminator]

I have it right here, dude. His forearm never touched him and his shoulder could not have forced him to fall like he had been hit by an uzi.

[Phenomanul]

Manu flopped...
But Amare still fouled him....


Anyway, what I wanted to say was that I can't stand Al Michaels he's bad luck to us....

Also I wanted to ask... how is Amare blocking the ball from inside the cylinder not a goaltending.... does it not count for dunks???

[whottt]

Amare must be plastic man then if he can have both arms wrapped around the ball yet still extend his elbows enough to make Manu go totally airborn with no momentum.

[E20]

Omfg So Whottt Typical Dumbass And Spurminator Are Saying That A 6'6 200 Pound Ginobili Flopped When He Recieved A Elbow And Forearm To The Chest Which Should Have Been A Flagrant/technoical. Comeone Amare Is A Young Punk Balla Who Goes Postal Like Artest Over A Delay Hold By Manu. Shit Have Some Brains.

[Jimcs50]

Spurs miss FTs a lot, that is not new.

But games where the refs cost us the game, that is new.

The refs sucked, it cost us the game.

Nuff said.

[NASHville]

Missed free throws is what cost the Spurs the game. Damn, the refs gave you all the free throws and all you had to do was make them. How much more could the refs "given" it to the Spurs!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

[ShoogarBear]

Everyone in here complaining about the refs must be auditioning for seats in Arco Arena or the Pepsi Center next year.

Man the F up. Spurs lost because they weren't good enough to win.

[Phenomanul]

Manu flopped...
But Amare still fouled him....


Anyway, what I wanted to say was that I can't stand Al Michaels he's bad luck to us....

Also I wanted to ask... how is Amare blocking the ball from inside the cylinder not a goaltending.... does it not count for dunks???

Answer anybody....

[Dre_7]

Spurs miss FTs a lot, that is not new.

But games where the refs cost us the game, that is new.

The refs sucked, it cost us the game.

Nuff said.

Dude the refs didnt cost SA the game. SA cost SA the game!

Now they have to win in PHX again. Oh well, they did it 3 times this year.

[Spurgal]

Spurs miss FTs a lot, that is not new.

But games where the refs cost us the game, that is new.

The refs sucked, it cost us the game.

Nuff said.

I agree. But, It Is going to be a great feeling to see our Spurs kick their ass In Phoenix

[1Parker1]

Everyone in here complaining about the refs must be auditioning for seats in Arco Arena or the Pepsi Center next year.

Man the F up. Spurs lost because they weren't good enough to win.


Exactly. We have some crazy consipiracy theorists on this board :)


Spurs in 5. Believe :princess

[smeagol]

It was one of Manu's worsts flops.

We lost the game ourselves, refs had nothing to do with it. Quit crying about the refs, bunch of pussies.

TP did not show up.

TD had a bad game.

Pop left Manu on the bench too much mutherfvcking time.

Those are some of my thoughts.

[Guru of Nothing]

And in conclusion, the bad calls by the refs were justified by the Spurs shitty play.

[E20]

Ok Manu Didn't Flop. Even Manu Got Pissed On Taht Call You Could See It In His Face. Goaltending You Say? The Refs Would Never Call That On Punk Bitch Mother Fin'g Amare.

WHY CAN'T IF UCKING POST IN CAPS!?

[whottt]

Holy shit...this has got to be the biggest collection of stupid motherfuckers ever!

You guys are sitting here blaming the fucking refs for not calling a flop by Manu and because these Spurs missed 12 fucking free throws.

Shut the fuck up and go to LG.net where you whiners belong.

Everyone in here blaming the refs needs to stop being Spursfans...

If the games are fixed then we are one of the biggest beneficiaries of the fixing...

The games are fixed...if that's true we should all be David Stern Fans because he's given us two NBA titles...


I hope none of you guys have any kids...

Stupid motherfuckers.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

There were other reasons we lost tonight, I just needed to vent somewhere about the double T.

I just want someone, some zebra or some league office stooge, to explain that call to me.

What did Manu get the T for?

[Jimcs50]

Fuckyou Spurm and Whottt..

Watch the fucking play.

Manu hit the floor hard as hell...he did not flop.

I watched it 5 more times, and it is so fucking obvious....you fuckers are fraking crazy.

[ducks]

and why in the hell is with all the traverling calls tonight

[ShoogarBear]

What did Manu get the T for?
Because the Razzies had already been given out for this year?

[Dre_7]

Wow, after reading all these posts, it seems like we are down 3-0!

[Jimcs50]

at the 107-106 pt, Amare pushed Parker with his forearm on that basket that put Phoenix up 3.

That was a feaking offennsive foul and was not even close.

Fuck the refs and fuck you too.

[E20]

Whottt You Need Glasses Because That Was No Flop.

YOU TELL THEM JIM!!!!!

[bonesinaz]

I am sick of the make-up calls. They were sooo obvious in this game. If I worked with the same quality as NBA refs, I'd be sued for malpractice...and I would lose.

The refs did suck, but SA should have made their FTs. Leaving Phx the open 3s didn't help either.

[Guru of Nothing]

We lost the game ourselves, refs had nothing to do with it. Quit crying about the refs, bunch of pussies.

Who the F* is "We?"

If I did not know better, I'd swear you were living a vicarious life.

[Jimcs50]

Wow, after reading all these posts, it seems like we are down 3-0!

it is rapes like that that can turn a series, and put Phoenix on top.

One game and you build on it.

The Spurs have to beat 5 Suns and 3 refs in this series.

Stern has made the edict and that is the way it is.

Fuck this shit.

[beirmeistr]

The game may not be fixed, but Stoudemire gets as much preferential treatment from the refs as Shaquille does.

[Nikos]

Manu might have been waiting for a nudge or something, but there is no way he fell like that on absolutely NO contact. How could that be?

[E20]

OMFG I'M STILL SO PISSED OVER THAT GAME SPURS BLEW IT AND THE REFS WERE A BIG PART FOR THE SPURS FUCKING UP LIKE THAT.

[whottt]

What I can't believe is that people are blaming the officials...

Why the fuck do you morons want more calls? It's not like we were going to hit the Free Throw attempts anyway.

I'd say Amare did foul Parker. But there was nothing intentional about it on the part of the refs..

The refs put the Suns in the penalty early in the 4th quarter...and we choked.


But the NBA is rigged...

Except when we win, right?

Why don't you guys go hang out with LakerLanny...the king of inane ref blaming and conspiracies(as his team wins 8 NBA titles with Stern as the commish)

[Spurgal]

I understand we are mad about losing the game tonight, but let's face It the Spurs did not play as good as the previous games. It almost felt like they wanted to give the game away from the moment the game started.

[Catharsis]

BAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAA!!! This thread is priceless. I know many of you are objective, but PLEASE! Manu flopped (he does it a lot) and he got burned--not enough if you ask me.

Suns were called for more fouls, Spurs shot more free throws and the Suns had more turnovers. You can't rig that stuff. If Duncan makes just half of his free throws the game is tied. Amare went to the line only six times--that's the injustice!

Man, show some F'n objectivity!

[E20]

WHOTTT YOU SAY THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER. STFU

[CyberBob]

Okay - I checked the rules on the Stoudemire's block on Duncan's dunk attempt. Looks like it was legal. Here's the rule (from http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_11.html?nav=ArticleList)

RULE NO. 11-BASKETBALL INTERFERENCE-GOALTENDING


Section I-A Player Shall Not:
a. Touch the ball or the basket ring when the ball is using the basket ring as its lower base.
EXCEPTION: If a player near his own basket has his hand legally in contact with the ball, it is not a violation if his contact with the ball continues after the ball enters the cylinder, or if, in such action, he touches the basket.

[Jimcs50]

so the Spurs missed FTs...so the fuck what???

Is that a reason to allow the refs to blow 3 huge calls in last 1 min 25 secs of the game????

The Spurs were good enough to suck and still win, had they not got ass fucked on Nat tv by the refs.

GO WATCH THE TAPE!!!!!

Tell me that TP did not get shoved by Amare...I dare you.

Tell me that they did not go over the back on that O Reb, I dare you to watch it and honestly tell me that.

those calls cost the Spurs 6 points

[LuvBones]

Wow, this place gets crazy after a Spurs loss... you'd think the Spurs were the ones down 3 games. Where are all the "fixed game" cries when the Spurs win? The refs sure didn't help us out but I've seen the Spurs win plenty of times despite the officiating. Suns wanted/needed this game more and the Spurs let them have it.. plain and simple.

We're still winning the series and Spurs will be fresh for the finals! Go SPURS! :king

[Guru of Nothing]

Once an for all, the NBA is NOT rigged; but, they do make a lot more money when playoff series are extended.

[E20]

If I were Pop I would go Van Gundy.

[whottt]

Manu might have been waiting for a nudge or something, but there is no way he fell like that on absolutely NO contact. How could that be?


Um he jumped backwards...because he knew he fouled Amare and the Suns were going to get the ball....Manu's not afriad of pain...in fact I think he kind of likes it with his style of play...

It's very possible for Manu to jump backwards all he has to do is...jump backwards..gee that's hard to do...what is not possbile is for Amare to knock him airborn with both his arms in front of him wrapped around a basketball.

[Jimcs50]

I am not talking about goal tending...fuck that.

I am talking about the other 3 calls and non calls.

[whottt]

Manu wasn't even hurt on that play...if what you guys say is true he would have been writhing around on the ground because he got the breath knocked out of him...once he realized the refs weren't buying it he got back up without a second thought about it...other than the disbelief that they didn't buy that superb acting job.

[Jimcs50]

Um he jumped backwards...because he knew he fouled Amare and the Suns were going to get the ball....Manu's not afriad of pain...in fact I think he kind of likes it with his style of play...

It's very possible for Manu to jump backwards all he has to do is...jump backwards..gee that's hard to do...what is not possbile is for Amare to knock him airborn with both his arms in front of him wrapped around a basketball.


Fuck you!!!

Watch it again asshole.


You have not watched it over, have you???

He was shoved backwards by someone that outweighs him by 50 lbs.

He hit the floor with thud, it was not a sliding flop...

Watch the fucking replay!!!!

[Jimcs50]

Manu wasn't even hurt on that play...if what you guys say is true he would have been writhing around on the ground because he got the breath knocked out of him...once he realized the refs weren't buying it he got back up without a second thought about it...other than the disbelief that they didn't buy that superb acting job.

You do not know he was not hurt.

He is going to have a huge bruise on his back.

Watch the fucking tape.

[whottt]

WHOTTT YOU SAY THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER. STFU


Yeah...we'll you're an idiot over and over again...You stop first, then I will.

[1Parker1]

at the 107-106 pt, Amare pushed Parker with his forearm on that basket that put Phoenix up 3.

That was a feaking offennsive foul and was not even close.

Fuck the refs and fuck you too.


I gotta agree with that one. That was a blatant offensive call--I guess since its the WCF and there were 48 sec on the clock, Refs prolly weren't going to call it.

That Manu T---I think that was because Manu had his arms wrapped around Amare for a good minute it seemed like---even after the whistle, which caused Amare to piss and Manu to make a flop in hopes of getting a call for himself.

Bottom line, it shouldn't have come down to those plays in the first place. A good team wins despite what may be horrible officiating---SEE GAME 2, SPURS VS SUNS.


Spurs in 5:)

[CyberBob]

I am not talking about goal tending...fuck that.

I am talking about the other 3 calls and non calls.

1. Moving pick at half court that leveled Bruce.

2. Throws Manu to the floor (Manu gets a tech?)

3. Threw an elbow into Tony Parker, ran him down on the way to the bucket.

- Are those the three. Am I missing any others?

BTW: The WWE impression on the last offensive rebound was sick.

[smeagol]

Who the F* is "We?"

If I did not know better, I'd swear you were living a vicarious life.
"We" is you and me (and the rest of the dudes who post here and are Spurs fans), GON.

[Jimcs50]

I gotta agree with that one. That was a blatant offensive call--I guess since its the WCF and there were 48 sec on the clock, Refs prolly weren't going to call it.

That Manu T---I think that was because Manu had his arms wrapped around Amare for a good minute it seemed like---even after the whistle, which caused Amare to piss and Manu to make a flop in hopes of getting a call for himself.

Bottom line, it shouldn't have come down to those plays in the first place. A good team wins despite what may be horrible officiating---SEE GAME 2, SPURS VS SUNS.


Spurs in 5:)

Manu had his arms arond him to tie the ball up.

The whistle blew about 2 secs before Manu got shoved.

And if there is a foul, you call it. Parker got hammered by Amare.

It should have been Amare's 5th foul and Spurs ball with a 1 pt defecit, not a 3 pt one.

[E20]

WHOTT YOU GOTTA STOP TALKING ABOUT MANU AND START MAKING THOSE ' I WANNA SUCK BRENT BARRY'S DICK BECAUSE HE MADE 3 POINTS' THREADS.

[Jimcs50]

As I said, not fixed, but the incompetency of the refs was world class tonight.

Pop will not complain, but I sure as hell will.

[Jimcs50]

If it was Brent that got shoved down, Whottt would have gone bananas about it.

Fuck this shit.

I have to get up early.

Fuck you!!

[whottt]

Fuck you!!!

Watch it again asshole.


You have not watched it over, have you???

He was shoved backwards by someone that outweighs him by 50 lbs.

He hit the floor with thud, it was not a sliding flop...

Watch the fucking replay!!!!

Yeah...and the first thing you said that proved you didn't watch it was when you said it didn't happen after the foul was called...

Total fucking bullshit...because Duncan was on him too until the foul was called...look at it again...Duncan is nowhere near them when the flop occurs...


Manu had him totally wrapped and was still trying to get the ball or incite that type of contact.

That was all Manu not giving up on a play and trying to get something out of nothing.




You watch the replay...I've watched it about 10 times.

[whottt]

No I want you and Jim to shut the fuck up and stop making us look like Kings or Laker fans with stupid fucking takes and whining because the refs called it honestly.

[bigbendbruisebrother]

BAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAA!!! This thread is priceless. I know many of you are objective, but PLEASE! Manu flopped (he does it a lot) and he got burned--not enough if you ask me.

Suns were called for more fouls, Spurs shot more free throws and the Suns had more turnovers. You can't rig that stuff. If Duncan makes just half of his free throws the game is tied. Amare went to the line only six times--that's the injustice!

Man, show some F'n objectivity!

You're right dude. The Spurs lost this game at the line. The spurs played badly and they missed their free throws. That won't happen again, however.

Spurs in 5.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

If it was Brent that got shoved down, Whottt would have gone bananas about it.

Jim's got a point. :lol

[grjr]

1. Moving pick at half court that leveled Bruce.



I thought the refs sucked but to be fair they made up this call shortly after by calling charging on someone (Marion?) when Horry was clearly inside the circle.

One of the ones you missed though was Amare grabbing Horry on a missed Duncan free throw that obviously kept him from getting the ball.

Two of the travel calls on the Spurs were complete bullshit too.

[JMarkJohns]

Manu might have been waiting for a nudge or something, but there is no way he fell like that on absolutely NO contact. How could that be?

It's called flopping.

I'm not going to argue any other of the calls/non-calls, but Manu fouled Amare, the whistle blew and Manu, either disreguarding the whistle or not hearing it, then draped himself upon Amare until Amare swung his body around, to which Manu threw himself off.

[Jimcs50]

Yeah...and the first thing you said that proved you didn't watch it was when you said it didn't happen after the foul was called...

Total fucking bullshit...because Duncan was on him too until the foul was called...look at it again...Duncan is nowhere near them when the flop occurs...


Manu had him totally wrapped and was still trying to get the ball or incite that type of contact.

That was all Manu not giving up on a play and trying to get something out of nothing.




You watch the replay...I've watched it about 10 times.


The whistle blew less than 2 secs before Manu was thrown down.

You watch it!!!

Fuck you for being so fucking stupid.

2 fucking seconds.

Manu got the foul, not Tim!!!!!

[Spurminator]

Well, I have frame grabs for the flop but imageshack won't upload tonight for some reason.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

There was no foul call on that play until Manu wrapped up Amare.

In 100% of the instances that same scenario played out in the past, with a guy knocking another guy off, it was a technical on the pusher.

Manu did exaggerate a little, but all you little Suns fans need to quit pretending that Amare didn't do anything on that play.

[samikeyp]

Man, show some F'n objectivity!

actually most Spurs fans on this board are...including Whottt in this thread. They blame the Spurs for the loss and are propping the Suns. Noticed you missed that. Nice of you to lump all Spurs fans as being of the same mindset. Nice and ignorant.

[1Parker1]

"Manu had him totally wrapped and was still trying to get the ball or incite that type of contact.

That was all Manu not giving up on a play and trying to get something out of nothing."

Exactly, I can't believe I am agreeing with Whott. Manu clearly was not giving up on that play, he had his arms wrapped around Amare, trying to wrestle the ball from him somehow while Amare was hugging the ball. Manu didn't just wrap his arms around Amare for the quick personal foul---he held on and tried to make something. Amare gets pissed after getting fouled by Duncan, then Manu grabbing him around the waist for a good 10sec, he bumps Manu to get him off his back, and though Manu may have fallen to the ground, he did it a little dramatically in hopes of still getting a call. Props to Manu for not giving up. However, I don't think it should have been a double tech.

[Jimcs50]

Just because the Spurs missed FTs does not mean that they got fucked with the 3 horrble non calls in last minute.

They are mutually exclusive.

[Jimcs50]

It's called flopping.

I'm not going to argue any other of the calls/non-calls, but Manu fouled Amare, the whistle blew and Manu, either disreguarding the whistle or not hearing it, then draped himself upon Amare until Amare swung his body around, to which Manu threw himself off.


WATCH THE REPLAY!!!!!!

Manu got the foul.

THE WHISTLE BLEW 2 SECS BEFORE THE TAKEDOWN!!!!!!

[Catharsis]

Actually, Duncan hitting his free throws may not have been the difference. The Spurs got a lot of second cgance points off his free throw misses. Anyone want to watch the game again and find out how many?

[Jimcs50]

less than 2 fucking secs

[smeagol]

IMO Manu flopped.

And the Refs made bad calls, but the L is on the Spurs. Fvck, was it the refs fault we lost the 3Q 35 to 21?

E20, you need to relax.

[Jimcs50]

less than 1 sec


watch the tape...

what total morons we have in here

[Spurminator]

JimCS has gone absolutely TPark...

[whottt]

There was no foul call on that play until Manu wrapped up Amare.

That's fucking bullshit...

Either that, or Duncan just walked off in the middle of a potentially turnover forcing double team, ...for absolutely no reason, in a crucial possession...


If that's the case we still deserved to fucking lose...


Why was Manu wrapping him up if he hadn't fouled him yet? To gurantee the Spurs turn it over?

Layoff the crack.

The Suns have been classy opponents this entrie series...they deserve the same from Spursfans...not a bunch of classless Lakerwhining.

[Jimcs50]

JimCS has gone absolutely TPark...


I am madder at you so-called Spurs fans than I am at the fucking refs.

You will not even watch the fucking tape of the last 1 1/2 of the game.

3 blown calls cost the Spurs.

The Spurs played bad, but they fought back, and should have still won, had the refs called the calls like they are supposed to.

Bruce played his ass off and it is all in vain.

Fuck this and fuck all of you who dod not even watch the tape.

[smeagol]

Jim, you said you have to wake up early.

Go to sleep, already.

[Jimcs50]

That's fucking bullshit...

Either that, or Duncan just walked off in the middle of a potentially turnover forcing double team, ...for absolutely no reason, in a crucial possession...


If that's the case we still deserved to fucking lose...


Why was Manu wrapping him up if he hadn't fouled him yet? To gurantee the Spurs turn it over?

Layoff the crack.

The Suns have been classy opponents this entrie series...they deserve the same from Spursfans...not a bunch of classless Lakerwhining.


The whistle blew when Manu wrappedf him up..it was less than 2 secs from the time of the whistle to the shove of Manu to the court.

Watch the fucking tape!!!!

[1Parker1]

less than 2 fucking secs



Damn, Jim, I haven't seen you this pissed after a loss. What....did you bet all your VBOOKIE on a sweep or something? :)

[ShoogarBear]

Yeah, I have a 7:30 dental appointment tomorrow.

I take pity on Jim's patients.

[whottt]

IT's a shame Jim is a 45 year old basketball fan and still hasn't figured out what a flop looks like...

[Jimcs50]

Jim, you said you have to wake up early.

Go to sleep, already.

no way...I am so pissed off right now...I will never sleep.

[Kori Ellis]

If you guys believe the game is fixed, I suggested you stop watching.

[Jimcs50]

Damn, Jim, I haven't seen you this pissed after a loss. What....did you bet all your VBOOKIE on a sweep or something? :)

I bet it all on Spurs in 5, actually...so why am I pissed?

oh well, thanks for reminding me.

I am happy now.

:)

[Sense]

The Suns fixed the Spurs wagon is what happened!!

The Officials gave the Spurs all the free throws they just couldn't make them.


If you really aren't mouse I suggest you shut up..because even mouse..who jumped on the wagon knows more shit than u.

[Jimcs50]

If you guys believe the game is fixed, I suggested you stop watching.


Not fixed, but watch the tape. Spurs got ass fucked.

[Spurgal]

If you guys believe the game is fixed, I suggested you stop watching.

The queen Is here! :elephant

[Jimcs50]

IT's a shame Jim is a 45 year old basketball fan and still hasn't figured out what a flop looks like...


watch the tape!!!!

[Jimcs50]

Yeah, I have a 7:30 dental appointment tomorrow.

I take pity on Jim's patients.


They are in big trouble, I can tell you that.

Good thing you are not in my chair tomorrow, I would go Marathon Man on your ass.

[whottt]

It's only fixed when we lose Kori...or at least that's the only time it bothers them...

It doesn't bother them when Stern throws game for us to go 12-2 in 1999...then it's all legit.

If it is corrupt obviously the system can be beaten since the Spurs were up 3-0 in this series in mostly close games...

I suggest they not shoot 47 fucking % from the FT line again and give the refs a chance to alter the "true" outcome of a game the Spurs and especially Duncan sucked ass in.

[ShoogarBear]

http://billmon.org/archives/Dentist.jpg



"Vass it a flop?"

[samikeyp]

I suggest we not shoot 47 fucking % from the FT line again and give the refs a chance to alter the "true" outcome of a game we and Duncan sucked ass in.

that was the fix. the Spurs did that on orders from Stern! :spin

[Jimcs50]

http://billmon.org/archives/Dentist.jpg



"Was it a flop?"



Yeah, like that.

[Jimcs50]

we are talking about incompetence, not fixing

[whottt]

I suggest you look at the title of this thread...

Although it's kind of funny that the Aggie backed off his initial comments...he even kind of backed off his comments that it was a bad call...or at least he wasn't as emotional about it. My guess is he watched the replay. Manu flopped, the refs made the right call. And Manu was definitely trying to make something out of nothing.

And besides...we still don't win if Amare gets a tech there.

[Jimcs50]

fuck this...I am out.


#$%^&*(&^%$##@$%^&&*&*&

[Jimcs50]

I suggest you look at the title of this thread...

Although it's kind of funny that the Aggie backed off his initial comments. My guess is he watched the replay.


He is busy bashing Pop, he still agrees that we got ass fucked.

[smeagol]

fuck this...I am out.


#$%^&*(&^%$##@$%^&&*&*&
Thank God :lol

[smeagol]

If you guys believe the game is fixed, I suggested you stop watching.
Why does this lady always make the most sense?

[whottt]

Pop wasn't the reason we lost this game...even with Barry getting only 10 mins this game(I think we've only won one game where Barry got 10 mins or less)...He didn't play Barry because Bruce was scoring well tonight.

We lost this game at the FT line and the main culprit in this loss was Duncan.

[samikeyp]

Why does this lady always make the most sense?

She doesn't wear the crown for nothing. :)

[timvp]

:lmao @ Spurs fans.

That was the biggest flop in NBA history. Manu flops all the time. He was trying to get a technical called on Amare but the refs didn't buy it. Amare didn't do anything and Manu just took a dive.

The correct call was nothing. A double technical is pretty much nothing.

Whottt and Spurm are dead on. The rest of you who believe that was a flop are dead wrong.

[samikeyp]

The conspiracy theories are really getting old. There is no group of little old men sitting high in some tower somewhere deciding playoff games.

[E20]

It was not a flop, I repeat it was not a flop. :smokin

[sickdsm]

I figured there would be some whiners bitching about this.

I skipped to the last page bc its usually all the same.

During the last three minutes, Bowen's foul when he ran into the Amare pick to ME was probably a no-call situation. Bowen was holding him but its kind of one of those plays when the ball goes out of bounds on a pysical play they'll call it out on the defense team even though it touched the other guys last bc they don't really want to call a foul.

Parker's flop: Sure, it looked like he got drilled but its another case of Shaq. Had that been Horry or Duncan on that play and Amare did the same its a nonissue. If your going to call that play down the stretch you might as well have Brent Barry guard Amare one on one all the time. Since when did a mismatch down low bc a negative for the big man? I see it a lot now, the big guy gets the ball deep in the post, turns, little guy falls and its a foul. SOMETIMES the big is overanxious and does foul but rarely EVER does a big man in the post need to hook a guy, lower his shoulder, or shove the guy.

MANU and AMARE'S T.

Easiest call to make on this list. Manu was being a jackass and wouldn't let go of the ball after the foul. I know, i know, guys never want to be the first to let go of a jumpball but it wasn't a jump ball. Amare overreacted and manu went flying. Kinda one of those deals like when KG doesn't let a ball go in after a foul and the other guy won't let him goaltend it after the whistle. You really can't give a delay of game on just one guy alone, it should be a double.

Did anyone mention Horry being inside the line when he drew the Nash offensive foul?

[samikeyp]

I am as big of a Manu fan as anyone....but the dude flops.

[smeagol]

Whottt and Spurm are dead on.
What about me? I said it more than once (not as eloquently as Whottt and Spurm, though).

Do you have something against us Argies? Is this a new ST.com conspiracy?

[timvp]

What about me? I said it more than once (not as eloquently as Whottt and Spurm, though).

Do you have something against us Argies? Is this a new ST.com conspiracy?

:lol

I could only make it until like page three before I had to post :)

[samikeyp]

I am pretty sure Timvp meant only those Spurs fans who were bitching.

[myhc]

Did anyone mention Horry being inside the line when he drew the Nash offensive foul?

That's because Stern told the zebras to give us a freakin break. :)

I didn't need to record anything because they showed the clip of Manu FLOPPING 3 or 4 times. Even if Amare bumped him in the chest, a guy like that doesn't go FLYING backwards into the air. At the most, he should be shoved backwards 2 or 3 steps. Manu is an amazing basketball player and one of my favorites but he is quite the actor.

[smeagol]

I am as big of a Manu fan as anyone....but the dude flops.
He sure does . . . but most of the times they are fouls anyways, he just exaggerates. But many times he gets hit hard, he ends up on the floor and those are no flops.

I like Sick's post.

[FromWayDowntown]

While at the game, and without the benefit of replay, I was bent about the double T. I would never think that it cost the Spurs the game tonight, but I initially thought the call was wrong (I was sitting, basically right above it). I also thought the officials gave Amare a ton of leeway in certain situations after he picked up his second foul. He appeared to me to plow Nazr in the second quarter, but there was no call. He and Nazr virtually exchanged punches for the duration of the second and third quarters, without any real interjection by the officials. And I thought it was a clear charge in the last minute or so, and thought that Amare got flat bailed out on that play. (I'm sure Suns fans could point to several plays they thought should have been called the Suns way).

With all of that said, the Spurs lost tonight because they were the softer team, physically and mentally. I thought that was evident as early as Suns 7, Spurs 1 in the First Quarter. The Spurs had no attention to detail defensively. They settled for jump shot after jump shot on the offensive end. And they failed to execute simple tasks, as has been noted ad nauseum here, like shooting free throws and boxing out on the defensive end. They deserved this loss tonight because they played a soft, soft game and looked around for officials to bail them out. That is a recipe for losing at this level, and the Spurs followed the recipe perfectly.

If you think officiating cost the Spurs this game, it can only be because the Spurs allowed the game to reach a point where the officials could make a difference.

[whottt]

I like flopping when it's guys on my team doing it...I can respect Manu doing it because he's a great defender and flopping is just another part of his arsenal...

IMO though, he's doing it too much...

1.The Suns are not a physical team.

2.If a player does it all the time it becomes less effective.


Never flop late in a big game...it hardly ever gets called. And if it does it's usually because the ref crew doesn't know what they are doing.

Would Spursfans be happy losing a game because the other team flopped and got the calls? I don't think so...

Flop when the flopping is good...but it should never be a goto move down the stretch unless you legitimately get fouled.

In this case I applaud Manu's effort though because he was trying to make something out of nothing on a lost posession at a crucial moment in the game, and we had nothing to lose by him trying it. It was very clever actually.

[myhc]

If you think officiating cost the Spurs this game, it can only be because the Spurs allowed the game to reach a point where the officials could make a difference.

This statement sums up everything perfectly. I think we did have legitimate beefs with the refs. But if you're going to be a champion, you have to overcome those because we get our share of calls too. It goes both ways. Bad free throw shooting, Tim playing soft down the stretch and Tony's play all spelled doom before the zebras even got involved.

[Spurminator]

I think obvious flops should be hit with a fine if the replay shows conclusively that the player was baiting the ref into a call.

Flops are a blight on the game. I don't blame players for doing it, because it works, but the NBA needs to make more of an effort to prevent them from being such a prevalent part of the game.

[whottt]

Spurminator...excuse my french but that is the biggest load of cat manure ever dumped on a message board...

Flopping is an artform and adds an edge of unpredictability to the game. It makes the game even more challenging...and that is never a bad thing.

Nothing gets you worse than being in the middle of close game and some guy pulling out a masterful flop to totally alter the momentum...all you can do is tip your hat.

On top of that, doing what you say would be an admission of incompetence of the refs...they make the decision on if it's an o foul or not...

Stop the hate of flopping

It's the basketball equivalent of a trick play...a flea flicker, the hidden ball trick.

On top of that...

What's really amusing is that you'll defend confessed child murders from the death penalty...yet you'll judge a basketball player without ever being able to prove if he was deliberately being deceptive or not...That method WOULD allow the NBA to have a bias that could never be questioned...

There are no rules against trying to decieve the refs...IF that's the case players and coaches that complain about calls when they did in fact commit a foul should also be penalized.

There has never been a player that thought he ever commited a foul, or a coach that ever thought his team got a legitimate foul called on them...



Besides...it's not like there are a lot of flagrant offensive fouls(O fouls being the most frequent outcome of a flop)...in fact I can't ever recall seeing one.


Could you point me to one? This would have never been a flagrant foul by the way...only a tech...and they likely wouldn't have ejected him from the game for it either since Manu was on him after the play ended.

There are strict rules on Techs and Flagrants...and it's virtually impossible to fake one.

[Catharsis]

actually most Spurs fans on this board are...including Whottt in this thread. They blame the Spurs for the loss and are propping the Suns. Noticed you missed that. Nice of you to lump all Spurs fans as being of the same mindset. Nice and ignorant.
The comment was directed at the psychos who think there's a consiracy and the refs screwed their team. No offense to those who aren't going crazy about this.

[Catharsis]

I think there has been SO much flopping this year compared to others, that the NBA might start assessing techs if they feel it's a flop. Don't know if it's right, but it's getting out of control, and it's just not the Spurs.

[whottt]

What's next on your cleaning up the NBA agenda? Suspending a player for getting inside the head of another player? It's not easy to add a lot of variety to basketball..what there is of it should be treasured and not abhored.

[timvp]

Hmmmmmm. So if I proped Whottt and Spurminator and then Whottt bashes Spurminator, what does that make of my initial propage. The world may never know.

:drunk

[Jimcs50]

:lmao @ Spurs fans.

That was the biggest flop in NBA history. Manu flops all the time. He was trying to get a technical called on Amare but the refs didn't buy it. Amare didn't do anything and Manu just took a dive.

The correct call was nothing. A double technical is pretty much nothing.

Whottt and Spurm are dead on. The rest of you who believe that was a flop are dead wrong.

We are supposed to take the word of someone who actually runs out of gas? :rolleyes

WTF runs out of gas nowadays?

Watch the tape. Manu hit the floor with a tremendous slam, he was not sliding backwards.

As I said, what about the pushoff by Amare on TP on his last basket?

The over TD's back rebound at the end?

3 blown calls, noncalls...whatever.

On to the next game.

[Kori Ellis]

Watch the tape. Manu hit the floor with a tremendous slam, he was not sliding backwards.

You watch the tape. That was a horrible flop on Manu's part. He needs to be more particularly about when/where he flops.

[Jimcs50]

You watch the tape. That was a horrible flop on Manu's part. He needs to be more particularly about when/where he flops.

I watched it 12 times...it was a foul.

[pooh0406]

the ref's are trying their best to help the so-called MVP(my a**)... the same thing happened last year (for KG).. damn refs!!!

[Kori Ellis]

I watched it 12 times...it was a foul.

:lol

:rolleyes

Take your homer glasses off and watch it again.

[Jimcs50]

I just wish Javie was one of the refs at the game.

[Kori Ellis]

Refer to this thread.

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17171&page=1&pp=26

[Jimcs50]

:lol

:rolleyes

Take your homer glasses off and watch it again.


I think you guys NEED glasses.

[Jimcs50]

Case closed.

I will drop it.

Game 5 is next.

[Uncle Donnie]

I thought it was a good flop. Shit at least he was trying. He fooled Hubie Brown and Al Michaels.

The bigger concern is how many games in these playoffs have we had where two of the big three (usually Duncan and Parker) mail it in? Even one is too many but there have been several.

[ambchang]

Well, there were some questionable calls, but I think the Spurs got their share in the first 3 games as well. It's a rough game, and the Spurs can't just expect the Suns to roll over and die.
Duncan 3/12 on FT? An airball? Parker 5/17? What about constantly missing Suns players in transitions? The Suns ripped the Spurs apart in the 3rd, and as much as the Suns deserved to win because of hardwork and clutch plays, the Spurs deserve to loose for their lack of concentration and mental breakdowns.
Still, as terribly as the Spurs played and as well as the Suns played, the Spurs only lost by 5. Spurs in 5.

[Spurminator]

Spurminator...excuse my french but that is the biggest load of cat manure ever dumped on a message board...

Flopping is an artform and adds an edge of unpredictability to the game. It makes the game even more challenging...and that is never a bad thing.

Nothing gets you worse than being in the middle of close game and some guy pulling out a masterful flop to totally alter the momentum...all you can do is tip your hat.

On top of that, doing what you say would be an admission of incompetence of the refs...they make the decision on if it's an o foul or not...

Stop the hate of flopping

It's the basketball equivalent of a trick play...a flea flicker, the hidden ball trick.

On top of that...

What's really amusing is that you'll defend confessed child murders from the death penalty...yet you'll judge a basketball player without ever being able to prove if he was deliberately being deceptive or not...That method WOULD allow the NBA to have a bias that could never be questioned...

There are no rules against trying to decieve the refs...IF that's the case players and coaches that complain about calls when they did in fact commit a foul should also be penalized.

There has never been a player that thought he ever commited a foul, or a coach that ever thought his team got a legitimate foul called on them...



Besides...it's not like there are a lot of flagrant offensive fouls(O fouls being the most frequent outcome of a flop)...in fact I can't ever recall seeing one.


Could you point me to one? This would have never been a flagrant foul by the way...only a tech...and they likely wouldn't have ejected him from the game for it either since Manu was on him after the play ended.

There are strict rules on Techs and Flagrants...and it's virtually impossible to fake one.

:lol

Wow, you're all over the place. Death penalty? Where did that come from? It's not anything close to a relevant comparison.

Flopping is a deliberate attempt to force the officials to intervene in the game. The officials are there to enforce the rules, but flopping makes the officials a bigger part of the game than they should be. The NBA has enough problems already with the officials calling actual fouls.

It does not benefit the game for flopping to be prevalent, and the NBA should do whatever it can do discourage it. If a player makes a clear attempt to sway the game by acting (particularly an instance like Manu's where he was trying to draw a technical or flagrant foul at a crucial point of the game) he should be fined.

Obviously a flop would only be fined if it was unquestionably deliberate. Stockton had a few, Manu had one last night. It wouldn't be any more of a gray area problem than decisions about fining coaches or owners for bitching about officials.

I love how so many Spurs fans are suddenly huge proponents of flopping now that Horry and Manu are on their team, but they were ready to lynch Karl Malone and John Stockton for beating them with such antics.

You'd have to be a raging homer to suggest that flopping makes the game better. You try that shit on the street and you'd be laughed off the court. I defy anyone to suggest they wouldn't rather watch the NBA where players played with the honor and sportsmanship of taking only fouls that are actual fouls.

Flopping is the NBA equivalent of a golfer secretly moving his ball off the rough, or a pitcher using a slightly oval-shaped baseball. In other words, it's cheating.

And it's fucking lame.

[Spurminator]

Oh, and the flea flicker and hidden ball tricks? Those are meant to fool the opponent. Like a pump fake. You don't have to be a genius to differentiate between those and flopping.

[FilSpursFan]

This Game is Fixed.

NBA wants more $$$

I wonder if the league wants more and more and fix game 5 too... hmmm

:depressed

[mavsfan1000]

It would be easier to fix game 5 since it is in Phoenix.

[whottt]

:lol

Wow, you're all over the place. Death penalty? Where did that come from? It's not anything close to a relevant comparison.


You are judging without proof...last night looked like a deliberate flop to you...to some people it didn't. And none of us can prove it one way or the other. I agree it was a blatant flop...but I can't say for certain and neither can you.


Flopping is a deliberate attempt to force the officials to intervene in the game. The officials are there to enforce the rules, but flopping makes the officials a bigger part of the game than they should be. The NBA has enough problems already with the officials calling actual fouls.

BS, the player isn't forcing the officials to do anything...a player has no control over what the official does. What about when a player tries to draw a foul when he is on offense? Should they get fined and suspended for that as well? Your idea will create even more official intervention and it will create a total bureaucracy around the simple act of calling a foul...You would not make the game better...you would make it even more of what you hate about it.




It does not benefit the game for flopping to be prevalent, and the NBA should do whatever it can do discourage it. If a player makes a clear attempt to sway the game by acting (particularly an instance like Manu's where he was trying to draw a technical or flagrant foul at a crucial point of the game) he should be fined.

Stop being a control freak...you won't stop it unless you eliminate offensive fould entirely. And you will make it worse with extensive review every time it is a close call.

What do you think the opposing team is going to do when they get called for an offensive foul and lose the game?

You they are just going to let it slide, even if it was legit, if there is any chance the play could be reveresed or they could punish the player that did it to him?



Obviously a flop would only be fined if it was unquestionably deliberate. Stockton had a few, Manu had one last night. It wouldn't be any more of a gray area problem than decisions about fining coaches or owners for bitching about officials.

And who should they appoint to judge if it was deliberate or not? You?

What if they guys they appoint as judge are naturally lenient towards floppers? Should they do a CIA background check on them to determine their tendencies?


I love how so many Spurs fans are suddenly huge proponents of flopping now that Horry and Manu are on their team, but they were ready to lynch Karl Malone and John Stockton for beating them with such antics.


David Robinson was one of the greatest floppers in NBA history. And he was just about the best at doing it because got the call nearly every time. I din't hear you complaining when he flopped Shaq into a tech foul in game 5 in 03...I didn't see your outrage then...I didn't hear you complaining when we hoisted the trophy later on that season.


Our entire team are floppers right now...every guy on our team is a freaking flopper...Cept for Robinson and Barry(although he is becoming one)...and that's because they don't play D.

Duncan flops.
Parker flops...
Bowen flops...etc.

And I don't see Pop getting upset about it very often...I've seen Robinson and Barry flop more in the last month than I had seen them do it in their entire careers....who do you think is encouraging it?


Every coach you hear doing PBP will praise a good flopper for giving up his body and taking it...


You'd have to be a raging homer to suggest that flopping makes the game better. You try that shit on the street and you'd be laughed off the court. I defy anyone to suggest they wouldn't rather watch the NBA where players played with the honor and sportsmanship of taking only fouls that are actual fouls.


The NBA isn't street ball.


Flopping is the NBA equivalent of a golfer secretly moving his ball off the rough, or a pitcher using a slightly oval-shaped baseball. In other words, it's cheating.

And it's fucking lame.


LMAO. You just don't like flopping. Evidently you like red tape though...because every argument I see from you, you seem to be an advocate of it, expansion of authority powers and regulation, more expense...etc.

Seems kind of an odd POV for a Libertarian to have if you ask me.

[whottt]

Oh, and the flea flicker and hidden ball tricks? Those are meant to fool the opponent. Like a pump fake. You don't have to be a genius to differentiate between those and flopping.

What about catcher's interference?

What about a catcher framing the ball over the plate to get a stike when it was actually a ball? Who is that trying to trick?

What about every coach in every sport yelling and screaming at officials to get them to give calls in favor of their team?

Cheating is part of the game...or at least testing the rules to the maximum extent is part of the game...



And that's another thing...every one acts like modern athletes are cheaters for steroid usage...

You don't think those mofo's back in the 40's and 50's would have done steroids or anything to give them an edge? You are wrong, they would have, and they pushed the limits of honest sportsmanship too...

Lighten up Spurm...it's always been this way.

And just about every guy in the NBA flops...the same way a catcher frames the ball they try to frame an offensive foul...

The funniest one was when Shaq was complaining about the Spurs flopping in 03 and then flopped on Tony Parker lol...he got the call too...

[Spurminator]

You are judging without proof...last night looked like a deliberate flop to you...to some people it didn't. And none of us can prove it one way or the other. I agree it was a blatant flop...but I can't say for certain and neither can you.

The proof is in the tape. It's arguable to some, but no more arguable than a coach blaming the officials for a loss and getting fined, or a level 2 Flagrant.


BS, the player isn't forcing the officials to do anything...a player has no control over what the official does. What about when a player tries to draw a foul when he is on offense? Should they get fined and suspended for that as well? Your idea will create even more official intervention and it will create a total bureaucracy around the simple act of calling a foul...You would not make the game better...you would make it even more of what you hate about it.

Trying to draw a foul is different from faking one, because the foul actually happens. My method would not affect the game itself, because all fines are levelled outside the game, and I don't give a shit what happens outside the game anymore than I care about Mark Cuban's next reality series. If it leads to less flopping during the games, then it's worth it.


Stop being a control freak...you won't stop it unless you eliminate offensive fould entirely. And you will make it worse with extensive review every time it is a close call.

Who said anything about stopping it? I'm talking about improvements here, not prevention.


What do you think the opposing team is going to do when they get called for an offensive foul and lose the game?

Who cares? The NBA can review the play for 48 hours straight for all I care.


And who should they appoint to judge if it was deliberate or not? You?

What if they guys they appoint as judge are naturally lenient towards floppers? Should they do a CIA background check on them to determine their tendencies?

Same guy they appoint judge of leveling fines for other reasons.

You're creating a difficult scenario to support your side of the argument, but it's really very simple. They review the play, determine that the player was undoubtedly attempting to coerce a call, and fine him. No different from how they determine whether a player was attempting a play on the ball when called for a flagrant foul. Probably easier.


David Robinson was one of the greatest floppers in NBA history. And he was just about the best at doing it because got the call nearly every time. I din't hear you complaining when he flopped Shaq into a tech foul in game 5 in 03...I didn't see your outrage then...I didn't hear you complaining when we hoisted the trophy later on that season.

Robinson was good at getting in position to draw offensive fouls. Falling down when someone runs or turns into you is not a flop. When Robinson did flop, I didn't like it, but I didn't see him ever trying to bait an official into calling a technical or flagrant on his opponent.


Our entire team are floppers right now...every guy on our team is a freaking flopper...Cept for Robinson and Barry(although he is becoming one)...and that's because they don't play D.

Duncan flops.
Parker flops...
Bowen flops...etc.

And I don't see Pop getting upset about it very often...I've seen Robinson and Barry flop more in the last month than I had seen them do it in their entire careers....who do you think is encouraging it?

So?

I've called out Spurs for playing for fouls and flailing their arms on drives to the baskets instead of going strong. My complaints against Duncan for flopping when he's stripped are well documented. I think it causes him to hold the ball more gently than he should.

You're not going to catch me on inconsistency, so don't bother.


The NBA isn't street ball.

The NBA should be as close to basketball in its purest sense as possible. In a perfect world, the officials would not have to make judgment calls. That's never possible, but the league can at least do whatever it can to make sure the players aren't relying on the officials to help them.


LMAO. You just don't like flopping. Evidently you like red tape though...because every argument I see from you, you seem to be an advocate of it, expansion of authority powers and regulation, more expense...etc.

Seems kind of an odd POV for a Libertarian to have if you ask me.

???

You keep bringing political ideology into the equation, but we're talking about a fucking game here. It's a product. And I want it to be the best product it can be.

Besides, Capital Punishment IS an expansion of powers and regulation. Duh.


What about catcher's interference?

What about a catcher framing the ball over the plate to get a stike when it was actually a ball? Who is that trying to trick?

What about every coach in every sport yelling and screaming at officials to get them to give calls in favor of their team?

Cheating is part of the game...or at least testing the rules to the maximum extent is part of the game...

Catcher's interference and framing pitches are not anything that detracts from the integrity of the game. I don't hear baseball teams being slammed by other teams or fans as "pitch framers". It's simply not the problem that flopping is. It's rarely something that umpires fall for anyway. If it was, and it was becoming as big a part of the game as flopping is to basketball, then yes, I would say that MLB should do something about it.

[ShoogarBear]

And it's fucking lame.
Q.E.D. What did you need the previous verbage for?

[Dre_7]

Well, looks like the games are not fixed. Refs are really calling a tight game on shaq, so looks like there is no conspircy. Sorry.

[smeagol]

To some degree, I agree with both of you (whottt and Spurm). Out-of-control flopping would ruin the game (those of you who watch soccer, don't you hate when a player gets fouled and spends five minutes crying on the field, is then taken off the field to receive more medical attention, only to come back 30 seconds later as if nothing ever happened).

On the other hand, penalizing every flop could be counterproductive. I would favor penalizing the obvious flops, but I agree with whottt, its very difficult to tell.

Simply take two of Manu's latest so-called flops. Last night's "hugging Amare", IMO, was a blatant flop, but others saw it as a legit foul. The AD elbow-hitting-big nose (delayed reaction) incident in the Sonics series was no flop IMO, but other saw it as a flop. In other words, as whottt said, its really hard to tell when a flop was actualy a flop or simply a legit foul.

Nevertheless, excesive flopping could ruin basketball. And Manu needs to bring it down a notch.

My two centavos.

[mavsfan1000]

Well, looks like the games are not fixed. Refs are really calling a tight game on shaq, so looks like there is no conspircy. Sorry.
They still want it to go 7 games so expect Miami to win in 7.

[Dre_7]

Niether series is fixed!!

[mavsfan1000]

In Miami the refs will be bad. Wait and see. Wade will get the Kobe treatment.