Amare's final block

[GSH]

Besides being in the cylinder, Stoudamire's hand was in contact with the rim. It's an automatic call - goaltending.

You can't make any excuses, we lost the game at the line. But I think we wound up playing 5-on-7 entirely too much.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

You're never gonna get a call on that, EVER.

[E20]

I'm About To Go Fucking Postal On The Nba Refs Site Or Whatever.

[NASHville]

Why is it always the refs fault? You all got beat. Admit it and come out to play on Wednesday!

[ballhog]

Yeah, that's what I thought too. Duncan is not a big enought star though.

[spur219]

The last block by Amare. Wasn't that goaltending since his hand was in the rim?

[ZStomp]

It was suppose to be goaltending. The ball was over the rim/cylinder....no?

[ZStomp]

Why is it always the refs fault? You all got beat. Admit it and come out to play on Wednesday!


It wasn't. PHX wanted more. Congrats!

[spur219]

The Spurs got beat fair and square. The only thing the Spurs can do is go back to Phoenix and play hard.

[ALVAREZ6]

Spurs need to improve their FT's over the summer. I can't stand this crap. Losing a game over freakin FT's...

most players don't even know how important FT's are...

[Tek_XX]

In this situation and a chance to extend this series, the refs will stern you every time.

[Supergirl]

Besides being in the cylinder, Stoudamire's hand was in contact with the rim. It's an automatic call - goaltending.

You can't make any excuses, we lost the game at the line. But I think we wound up playing 5-on-7 entirely too much.


EXACTLY what I was just screaming at the TV about. That was the most obvious case of goaltending I have ever seen. SHould have been basket and 1, which obviously Duncan would have missed and we might still have lost the game.

But still. Could someone explain why 3 refs on the court couldn't see this as goaltending?

[dn0]

it doesn't matter now..
MEMO TO DUNCAN :
When you have to dunk the ball to take your team to the finals you CAN'T BE SOFT.
unbelievable fucking disgrace.

[Boo]

Quit Crying People!!! We Lost Already... Geez

[GSH]

Why is it always the refs fault? You all got beat. Admit it and come out to play on Wednesday!

I did admit it. Right there where I said, "we lost the game at the line". I have to believe you aren't illiterate, because you managed to post a message. So I have to believe you are just dense.

The Suns won the game. End of story. If you want to twist what I said, it's a free country. You have the right to be as much of an asshole as you chose to be.

I commented on one call. Whether that would have changed the outcome or not... who knows? My only point was that it was too obvious to miss at that point in the game. I can understand missing a close call. But when a player is in contact with the rim during a shot? That is inexcusable.

[spur219]

I am not crying at all. It shouldn't of came down to that last goaltend. But when Amare makes some fouls and a goaltend down the stretch you have to call that. Oh well it's over in 5. Hopefully.

[scott]

If the ball is still in Duncan's hand (which it was) I don't see how it can be goaltending. That was just an amazing block by Amare.

It amazes me how much bitching about the refs comes out when we lose... apparently to some people we should be 82-0.

[DDS4]

It looked clean to me. Amare's hand wasn't in the bucket.

Sucks but we'll get'em on Wednesday.

[Solid D]

I was impressed with the play by Amare. I think you give him that block, however, Nash shoved Timmy in the back hard on that play. If I'm a ref, I call the push but not goaltending...no way. Nash pushing Tim was smart. Tim was 3-12 from the line. It ended up not being called though.

Suns got it done. Bottom line.

[1Parker1]

Suns just played better tonight---they were desperate and it showed. Enough on that.

I am curious on that Duncan Dunk, though. What is the rule exactly? Because I thought it would be goal tend also...not that it would have made that much of a difference, but still.


Spurs in 5. I believe :)

[Spurgal]

Suns did play better tonight.

Spurs needed a wake up call!

[ballhog]

Duncan will be on a mission Wed night.

[CyberBob]

RULE NO. 11-BASKETBALL INTERFERENCE-GOALTENDING


Section I-A Player Shall Not:
a. Touch the ball or the basket ring when the ball is using the basket ring as its lower base.
EXCEPTION: If a player near his own basket has his hand legally in contact with the ball, it is not a violation if his contact with the ball continues after the ball enters the cylinder, or if, in such action, he touches the basket.

[GSH]

Suns just played better tonight---they were desperate and it showed. Enough on that.

I am curious on that Duncan Dunk, though. What is the rule exactly? Because I thought it would be goal tend also...not that it would have made that much of a difference, but still.


Spurs in 5. I believe :)

The ruling? It's a goaltend. It was obvious to me when it happened, but I've seen the replay about half a dozen times now. His hand is in contact with the rim. It's an automatic call.

If you could set your hand on the rim and cover up the hole, why would anyone ever play any differently?

I'll say it again. The Spurs lost the game fair and square. But it doesn't matter if the Spurs were down by 3, down by 20, or up by 20... the ref can't miss that call.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Did y'all even bother to read what CyberBob quoted?

THat's the rule. Shit, Duncan did the same thing against Denver vs. KMart, and did it last series against Jermaine, if you think those were clean then you need to quit whining about Amare's block.

There were plenty of other Amare infractions to be pissed about, this wasn't one of them.

[Dingle Barry]

Awesome play by Stoudemire. Crying about officiating after the Spurs' performance tonight is fucking lame.

[Sense]

The Spurs were suppose to play and they didnt...

Parker and Duncan were terrible..ginobili was as awesome as always..

So Duncan and Parker better step their shit up..

I blame them.

[Pandaemonaeon]

They didn't call it against Sacramento, why would they start calling it now?

http://img280.echo.cx/img280/9500/pandafish2jp.gif

[Dingle Barry]

I am used to and can deal with Parker playing like shit in the playoffs. Tim, on the other hand, is not acceptable.

[Catharsis]

JESUS!! CyberBob just posted why it isn't a goaltend.

It was legal--accept it and stop whining.

[SouthernFried]

The ball was still in Duncans hand...that is not goal tending.

What it was, was a freakin' amazing block. Give props when props are due...Amare was a monster tonite. If he ever decides to play D full time, he will be the dominant player in the league.

Spurs in 6

[mavsfan1000]

That call was so hard to see in fast motion. Most refs would miss a call like that because I didn't notice it until instant replay. It's unfortunate that they missed it.

[SirChaz]

It was the right call.

Read the Exception. Timmy's hand was still on the ball it is a legal block.

The only way it can be goaltending on a dunk like that is if Amare put his hand up through the cylinder which he did not.

[GSH]

Section I-A Player Shall Not:
a. Touch the ball or the basket ring when the ball is using the basket ring as its lower base.
EXCEPTION: If a player near his own basket has his hand legally in contact with the ball, it is not a violation if his contact with the ball continues after the ball enters the cylinder, or if, in such action, he touches the basket.
b. Touch the ball when it is above the basket ring and within the imaginary cylinder.
g. Touch any live ball from within the playing area that is on its downward flight with an opportunity to touch the basket ring. This is considered to be a "field goal attempt" or trying for a goal.
i. Vibrate the rim or backboard so as to cause the ball to make an unnatural bounce.

Subsection b) of the rule clearly states that a player cannot touch the ball while it is above the basket ring, and within the "cylinder". The exception to rule a) is what allows a player to dunk, to begin with. Back in the old days, dunks were illegal - technically it is offensive goaltending. They had to specifically allow dunks.

It's OK to block someone attempting a dunk, even though the ball is technically moving downward towards the basket - subsection g) doesn't apply. The rationalization is that it is not a shot yet, because it hasn't left the offensive player's hand.

BUT... it isn't OK to touch the ball while it is in the cylinder, except while making a dunk. Notice the wording on the exception - if a player is near his own basket. The only time it's OK to touch the ball or the rim while the ball is above the rim, and in the cylinder, is when you are making a dunk. There are no exceptions.

In practice, the refs call goaltending any time a player touches the rim while a shot is in the air. (Just the other night, Alonzo Mourning used the rim to give himself some extra lift to go up for a shot block. The ref called the goaltend without even looking to see if the ball had passed its peak and begun moving downwards.) Originally it was because of subsection i) that says you can't vibrate the rim to cause a shot to take an unnatural bounce. Now it's a call they just make irregardless.

It was OK for Amare to block a dunk, and he made a hell of a play. It's not a matter of whether he was "good" or "bad", and you can't take anything away from the athleticism it took to make the play. It's just one of those things that has to get called. The defensive player can't touch the ball or the rim while the ball is within the cylinder. (An offensive player can only do it if he is in the process of making a dunk.) I can't imagine an NBA ref refusing to make the call.

[pjjrfan]

I don't know the rule, but what the hell, it didn't get called, and if you ask me Amare just kicked ass the whole game, and if he was playing good before, I'm thinking he is going to be a handful the rest of the way.

[HB22inSA]

I thought it was one hell of a block.

[SirChaz]

Section I-A Player Shall Not:
a. Touch the ball or the basket ring when the ball is using the basket ring as its lower base.
EXCEPTION: If a player near his own basket has his hand legally in contact with the ball, it is not a violation if his contact with the ball continues after the ball enters the cylinder, or if, in such action, he touches the basket.
b. Touch the ball when it is above the basket ring and within the imaginary cylinder.
g. Touch any live ball from within the playing area that is on its downward flight with an opportunity to touch the basket ring. This is considered to be a "field goal attempt" or trying for a goal.
i. Vibrate the rim or backboard so as to cause the ball to make an unnatural bounce.

Subsection b) of the rule clearly states that a player cannot touch the ball while it is above the basket ring, and within the "cylinder". The exception to rule a) is what allows a player to dunk, to begin with. Back in the old days, dunks were illegal - technically it is offensive goaltending. They had to specifically allow dunks.

It's OK to block someone attempting a dunk, even though the ball is technically moving downward towards the basket - subsection g) doesn't apply. The rationalization is that it is not a shot yet, because it hasn't left the offensive player's hand.

BUT... it isn't OK to touch the ball while it is in the cylinder, except while making a dunk. Notice the wording on the exception - if a player is near his own basket. The only time it's OK to touch the ball or the rim while the ball is above the rim, and in the cylinder, is when you are making a dunk. There are no exceptions.

In practice, the refs call goaltending any time a player touches the rim while a shot is in the air. (Just the other night, Alonzo Mourning used the rim to give himself some extra lift to go up for a shot block. The ref called the goaltend without even looking to see if the ball had passed its peak and begun moving downwards.) Originally it was because of subsection i) that says you can't vibrate the rim to cause a shot to take an unnatural bounce. Now it's a call they just make irregardless.

It was OK for Amare to block a dunk, and he made a hell of a play. It's not a matter of whether he was "good" or "bad", and you can't take anything away from the athleticism it took to make the play. It's just one of those things that has to get called. The defensive player can't touch the ball or the rim while the ball is within the cylinder. (An offensive player can only do it if he is in the process of making a dunk.) I can't imagine an NBA ref refusing to make the call.


If the offensive player can touch the ball in the cylinder and the offensive player's hand has not left the ball, then it has to be legal for the defensive player to touch the ball in that situation as well.

There was no goaltend. If it was then it is always illegal to block a dunk attempt and that is not the true.

[GSH]

Did y'all even bother to read what CyberBob quoted?

THat's the rule. Shit, Duncan did the same thing against Denver vs. KMart, and did it last series against Jermaine, if you think those were clean then you need to quit whining about Amare's block.

There were plenty of other Amare infractions to be pissed about, this wasn't one of them.

As always, AHP, you're about a step slow. Instead of reading CyberBob's post, you should have taken the time to read (and understand) the rule. I know I answered it a minute ago, but I'll say it again just for you, because you always have to take your attitude with people.

The exception states that it is OK for a player near his own basket - in other words, the offensive player. Which makes it OK for a player to make a dunk, and touch the rim afterwards. It doesn't make it OK for a defensive player to touch the ball while it is in the cylinder.

You want to take an attitude with people, at least take the time to do your homework first, so that you'll know what you're talking about.

[Rick Von Braun]

It was the right call.

Read the Exception. Timmy's hand was still on the ball it is a legal block.

The only way it can be goaltending on a dunk like that is if Amare put his hand up through the cylinder which he did not. That is BS. If the ball is on the offensive player's hands, is it ok to cover the damn basket with your hands?

Based on your interpretation, it seems to be ok. Only if the player shots the ball is goal-tending based on what you are saying.

Next time someone goes for a dunk, the defensive players should cover the entire basket with hands, arms, etc... it is not goaltending, right?

Amare's hand was touching the rim and his palm was on top of the cylinder... this is an automatic goaltending.

[rm13]

Section I-A Player Shall Not:
a. Touch the ball or the basket ring when the ball is using the basket ring as its lower base.
EXCEPTION: If a player near his own basket has his hand legally in contact with the ball, it is not a violation if his contact with the ball continues after the ball enters the cylinder, or if, in such action, he touches the basket.
b. Touch the ball when it is above the basket ring and within the imaginary cylinder.
g. Touch any live ball from within the playing area that is on its downward flight with an opportunity to touch the basket ring. This is considered to be a "field goal attempt" or trying for a goal.
i. Vibrate the rim or backboard so as to cause the ball to make an unnatural bounce.

Subsection b) of the rule clearly states that a player cannot touch the ball while it is above the basket ring, and within the "cylinder". The exception to rule a) is what allows a player to dunk, to begin with. Back in the old days, dunks were illegal - technically it is offensive goaltending. They had to specifically allow dunks.

It's OK to block someone attempting a dunk, even though the ball is technically moving downward towards the basket - subsection g) doesn't apply. The rationalization is that it is not a shot yet, because it hasn't left the offensive player's hand.

BUT... it isn't OK to touch the ball while it is in the cylinder, except while making a dunk. Notice the wording on the exception - if a player is near his own basket. The only time it's OK to touch the ball or the rim while the ball is above the rim, and in the cylinder, is when you are making a dunk. There are no exceptions.

In practice, the refs call goaltending any time a player touches the rim while a shot is in the air. (Just the other night, Alonzo Mourning used the rim to give himself some extra lift to go up for a shot block. The ref called the goaltend without even looking to see if the ball had passed its peak and begun moving downwards.) Originally it was because of subsection i) that says you can't vibrate the rim to cause a shot to take an unnatural bounce. Now it's a call they just make irregardless.

It was OK for Amare to block a dunk, and he made a hell of a play. It's not a matter of whether he was "good" or "bad", and you can't take anything away from the athleticism it took to make the play. It's just one of those things that has to get called. The defensive player can't touch the ball or the rim while the ball is within the cylinder. (An offensive player can only do it if he is in the process of making a dunk.) I can't imagine an NBA ref refusing to make the call.


I understand what your saying but the thing is your own basket is the basket you are defending-so Amare was allowed because it was a continuation.

Oh and about the other guy saying that therefore the players are allowed to cover the whole basket with arms-it would not be leagal-because there would be no coninuation of touching the ball and it would just be randomly touching the rim which is goaltending.

[samikeyp]

It should be allowed on the effort alone. It was a hell of a play.

[FustinJelux]

The exception clearly states that Amare was not goaltending. It clearly says that if the offensive player's hand is "legally in contact with the ball, it is not a violation if his contact with the ball continues after the ball enters the cylinder"

Since Duncan's hand was still on the ball as it moved over the cyldiner, Amare was free to block it.

[Catharsis]

That is BS. If the ball is on the offensive player's hands, is it ok to cover the damn basket with your hands?

Based on your interpretation, it seems to be ok. Only if the player shots the ball is goal-tending based on what you are saying.

Next time someone goes for a dunk, the defensive players should cover the entire basket with hands, arms, etc... it is not goaltending, right?

Amare's hand was touching the rim and his palm was on top of the cylinder... this is an automatic goaltending.
BULLSHIT!! You don't know what the hell you'rew talking about!

[Xolotl]

Is it just me or was somebody wishing Tim wouldve slammed it down with both hands, and, Amare's hand wouldve gone into the first row? Damn that boy is good.

[GSH]

If the offensive player can touch the ball in the cylinder and the offensive player's hand has not left the ball, then it has to be legal for the defensive player to touch the ball in that situation as well.

There was no goaltend. If it was then it is always illegal to block a dunk attempt and that is not the true.

No... that's you trying to apply your own logic. "Well if it's OK for the offensive player, it MUST be OK for the defensive player." But it's not what the rule says.

Read the rule, and what I said carefully. There are valid reasons for each part of the rule. They wanted to find a way to make dunks legal, so they wrote a rule for it. They didn't want to make it illegal for a player to try to block a dunk, so they used the part about it being on its downward "flight" - since the ball is in the player's hand, it isn't on its "flight". That makes blocking dunks legal.

But the exception... seriously, read it... says that it is OK for a player near his own basket. They put that in there for a very specific reason. The exception was designed to allow dunks. But they very explicitly wanted to make it illegal for a player to do what Stoudamire did tonight.

Slowly now - IT'S...NOT...OK...TO...BLOCK...A...BALL...WHILE... IT...IS...IN...THE...CYLINDER. EVER.

[SirChaz]

That is BS. If the ball is on the offensive player's hands, is it ok to cover the damn basket with your hands?

Based on your interpretation, it seems to be ok. Only if the player shots the ball is goal-tending based on what you are saying.

Next time someone goes for a dunk, the defensive players should cover the entire basket with hands, arms, etc... it is not goaltending, right?

Amare's hand was touching the rim and his palm was on top of the cylinder... this is an automatic goaltending.


Amare met Tim at the top and got a hand on the ball and his hand was pushed back over the cylinder.

No part of what he did was goaltending.

No where in the rules does it say you can't challenge a dunk. Only if the ball is in contact with the rim when you touch it, you use the rim for assistance, or a hand comes up through the cylinder is this a violation.

[GSH]

The exception clearly states that Amare was not goaltending. It clearly says that if the offensive player's hand is "legally in contact with the ball, it is not a violation if his contact with the ball continues after the ball enters the cylinder"

Since Duncan's hand was still on the ball as it moved over the cyldiner, Amare was free to block it.

NOOOOO!!!!!

Damn! Everything in the rule is clear, and in there for a reason. The bit about "legally in contact with the ball"? There's a reason for that. It prevents "offensive interference". (Offensive goaltending.) How could a player's hand not be "legally in contact" with the ball? IF THE BALL WAS ALREADY IN THE CYLINDER WHEN HE FIRST TOUCHED IT. So if a missed shot is bouncing on the rim, above the cylinder, an offensive player can't throw it down legally. If the ball bounces outside the cylinder, the exception makes it legal for him to grab it and dunk it, and touch the rim afterwards. (Just like any other dunk.)

Think about the rules, and the reasons for them. They really do make sense.

[timvp]

Clean block.

Move on.

[Catharsis]

No... that's you trying to apply your own logic. "Well if it's OK for the offensive player, it MUST be OK for the defensive player." But it's not what the rule says.

Read the rule, and what I said carefully. There are valid reasons for each part of the rule. They wanted to find a way to make dunks legal, so they wrote a rule for it. They didn't want to make it illegal for a player to try to block a dunk, so they used the part about it being on its downward "flight" - since the ball is in the player's hand, it isn't on its "flight". That makes blocking dunks legal.

But the exception... seriously, read it... says that it is OK for a player near his own basket. They put that in there for a very specific reason. The exception was designed to allow dunks. But they very explicitly wanted to make it illegal for a player to do what Stoudamire did tonight.

Slowly now - IT'S...NOT...OK...TO...BLOCK...A...BALL...WHILE... IT...IS...IN...THE...CYLINDER. EVER. First, Amare made contact with the ball BEFORE it was over the cylinder. Second, the ball has to be RELEASED to be considered falling. The exception of "over the cylinder" is if the offensive player is still touching the ball. It was a clean, legal block.

THE..KEY...IS...HE...MADE...CONTACT...BEFORE...THE ...BALL...WAS...OVER...THE...CYLINDER

[Catharsis]

NOOOOO!!!!!

How could a player's hand not be "legally in contact" with the ball? IF THE BALL WAS ALREADY IN THE CYLINDER WHEN HE FIRST TOUCHED IT.
Amare made contact BEFORE it was over the cylinder. I've seen the replay 10 times. That makes it legal.

[Rick Von Braun]

Amare met Tim at the top and got a hand on the ball and his hand was pushed back over the cylinder.

No part of what he did was goaltending.

No where in the rules does it say you can't challenge a dunk. Only if the ball is in contact with the rim when you touch it, you use the rim for assistance, or a hand comes up through the cylinder is this a violation.
The bold statements are crucial. Amare can challenge the dunk as long as his hands do not go over the cylinder. If his hands go over the cylinder, and/or touch the rim, it is an automatic goaltender. It is irrelevant if his hands were pushed back by the dunk, he can only challenge (block) the dunk if his hands are not touching the rim and/or they are not on top of the cylinder. That is the rule.

[GSH]

Amare met Tim at the top and got a hand on the ball and his hand was pushed back over the cylinder.

No part of what he did was goaltending.

No where in the rules does it say you can't challenge a dunk. Only if the ball is in contact with the rim when you touch it, you use the rim for assistance, or a hand comes up through the cylinder is this a violation.

All right... I'll drop this one after this post. I know you think what you said sounds logical, but it's wrong. First of all, Amare's arm was in contact with the rim, but that's another issue. Even if it happened the way you say, there is nothing in the rule that says anything about the defensive player's arm getting pushed over the cylinder. The defensive player was in contact with both the ball and the cylinder (both goaltending violations) while the ball was in the cylinder. There is no question that the ball would have gone in (the rule only says it has to have a chance to go in) had Stoudamire not touched it at that point. It's a goaltend.

You may not think it's fair. And you may want to give Amare credit for such an athletic play - hell, I want to give him credit for such an athletic play. But the rule says it's a goaltend. Period. The ref has an obligation to call the goaltend. Some calls are less black-and-white. This particular one is really clear cut. It's automatic.

It doesn't matter. The Spurs lost the game, fair and square. I've said that all along. The ruling on that play was wrong. But it doesn't matter... the game is over.

One point though... the Spurs can't un-lose the game. You have the opportunity to get over being ignorant. Take the time to do your homework. Read the rules before you run your mouth. (Or your keyboard.)

[Rick Von Braun]

Amare made contact BEFORE it was over the cylinder. I've seen the replay 10 times. That makes it legal.
Nope, you are wrong there. If a player initiates contact before it was over the cylinder, that doesn't mean the player can cover the basket to prevent the 2pts. That does not make it legal.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

GSH,

You should take a step back and use your brain.

Again, Tim Duncan did the same thing to Kenyon Martin in round 1, and Jerome James in round 2..

I don't see you calling for a goaltend on Tim on those plays. Blocking dunks at the rim happens all the time in the league. As much as I disagree with some of the officiating, that was a clean block.

[FustinJelux]

Hahah, actually you guys, GSH is right. I misread the exception. The exception actually just says the offensive player is allowed to dunk it. When it says "his" hand I thought it was talking about the DEFENSIVE player's hand, when it is actually talking about the offensive player's hand.

Goaltending on Amare.

[rm13]

All right... I'll drop this one after this post. I know you think what you said sounds logical, but it's wrong. First of all, Amare's arm was in contact with the rim, but that's another issue. Even if it happened the way you say, there is nothing in the rule that says anything about the defensive player's arm getting pushed over the cylinder. The defensive player was in contact with both the ball and the cylinder (both goaltending violations) while the ball was in the cylinder. There is no question that the ball would have gone in (the rule only says it has to have a chance to go in) had Stoudamire not touched it at that point. It's a goaltend.

You may not think it's fair. And you may want to give Amare credit for such an athletic play - hell, I want to give him credit for such an athletic play. But the rule says it's a goaltend. Period. The ref has an obligation to call the goaltend. Some calls are less black-and-white. This particular one is really clear cut. It's automatic.

Please reply once more because you didnt earlier to me. THe big problem with you reasoning is that in this rule it states
"EXCEPTION: If a player near his own basket has his hand legally in contact with the ball, it is not a violation if his contact with the ball continues after the ball enters the cylinder, or if, in such action, he touches the basket."

Your OWN basket is the basket of the DEFENSIVE team-which on that TD atempt dunk was the Suns.

Get it now?

[Catharsis]

Nope, you are wrong there. If a player initiates contact before it was over the cylinder, that doesn't mean the player can cover the basket to prevent the 2pts. That does not make it legal.
Yes it does. I am 100% right and this is not the first time this has happened and not the first time it was called correctly.

It's over, good non-call, nice block.

[GSH]

Please reply once more because you didnt earlier to me. THe big problem with you reasoning is that in this rule it states
"EXCEPTION: If a player near his own basket has his hand legally in contact with the ball, it is not a violation if his contact with the ball continues after the ball enters the cylinder, or if, in such action, he touches the basket."

Your OWN basket is the basket of the DEFENSIVE team-which on that TD atempt dunk was the Suns.

Get it now?

Could you... could anyone... really be that freaking ignorant? I'm sorry. But in any rational world, that kind of comment would be grounds to have you neutered before you had a chance to breed. That kind of ignorance has to be something so fundamental that you could pass it on genetically.

[SirChaz]

The bold statements are crucial. Amare can challenge the dunk as long as his hands do not go over the cylinder. If his hands go over the cylinder, and/or touch the rim, it is an automatic goaltender. It is irrelevant if his hands were pushed back by the dunk, he can only challenge (block) the dunk if his hands are not touching the rim and/or they are not on top of the cylinder. That is the rule.


First of all, Amare made contact before the ball was over the cylinder.

Even so if a player is going for a dunk and they have their hand on the ball over the cylinder a defensive player can knock the ball away(out of the players hand).
This is common in the NBA and it is not a goaltend no matter how much you wish it were.

Sorry guys you are wrong. Maybe we just agree to disagree.

[Catharsis]

Please reply once more because you didnt earlier to me. THe big problem with you reasoning is that in this rule it states
"EXCEPTION: If a player near his own basket has his hand legally in contact with the ball, it is not a violation if his contact with the ball continues after the ball enters the cylinder, or if, in such action, he touches the basket."

Your OWN basket is the basket of the DEFENSIVE team-which on that TD atempt dunk was the Suns.

Get it now?
I get it. Doubt others will.

[GSH]

Please reply once more because you didnt earlier to me. THe big problem with you reasoning is that in this rule it states
"EXCEPTION: If a player near his own basket has his hand legally in contact with the ball, it is not a violation if his contact with the ball continues after the ball enters the cylinder, or if, in such action, he touches the basket."

Your OWN basket is the basket of the DEFENSIVE team-which on that TD atempt dunk was the Suns.

Get it now?

RULE NO. 4-DEFINITIONS


Section I-Basket/Backboard
a. A team's basket consists of the basket ring and net through which its players try to shoot the ball.

How could you be a basketball fan and make a statement like that? Hell... how could you make it to adulthood and make a statement like that?

[rm13]

Could you... could anyone... really be that freaking ignorant? I'm sorry. But in any rational world, that kind of comment would be grounds to have you neutered before you had a chance to breed. That kind of ignorance has to be something so fundamental that you could pass it on genetically.

Maybe you should be neutered?
Read this:
PENALTY: If the violation is at the opponent's basket, the offended team is awarded two points,

If the violation is at a team's own basket, no points can be scored and the ball is awarded to the offended team at the free throw line extended on either sideline. If there is a violation by both teams, play shall be resumed by a jump ball between any two opponents at the center circle.

When goaltending occurs on the other teams basket you get two points-not when you score two point on your own basket.

Ready to be neutered?

[FustinJelux]

This argument could be settled if we could find out which basket is "his own basket." Is his own basket the basket he shoots into, or the basket the other team shoots into?

[Catharsis]

Could you... could anyone... really be that freaking ignorant? I'm sorry. But in any rational world, that kind of comment would be grounds to have you neutered before you had a chance to breed. That kind of ignorance has to be something so fundamental that you could pass it on genetically. Here's a link to the rule AND the exception--in case you think he's making it up.

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_11.html?nav=ArticleList

[Catharsis]

This argument could be settled if we could find out which basket is "his own basket." Is his own basket the basket he shoots into, or the basket the other team shoots into?
A defender guards HIS own basket. You don't guard your opponent's basket. The game of basketball was created where players try to score on the OTHER team's basket. Hence the basket belongs to the defender, not the scorer.

[FustinJelux]

Oh, I'm late. GSH is still right guys. That rule doesn't say it's OK to do what Amare did. It just says that it is not offensive goaltending if a player dunks. It is saying it's OK for an offensive player to continue holding the ball and touch the rim after he puts it over the cyldiner (in other words, it is OK for a player to dunk).

[GSH]

Maybe you should be neutered?
Read this:
PENALTY: If the violation is at the opponent's basket, the offended team is awarded two points,

If the violation is at a team's own basket, no points can be scored and the ball is awarded to the offended team at the free throw line extended on either sideline. If there is a violation by both teams, play shall be resumed by a jump ball between any two opponents at the center circle.

When goaltending occurs on the other teams basket you get two points-not when you score two point on your own basket.

Ready to be neutered?

Damn you are a dipshit! A feisty dipshit, but a dipshit just the same.

Yes... if you commit goaltending at the opponent's basket, you were playing defense. The team that shot the ball is awarded points, just as if they had made the basket. If you commit goaltending at your own basket, you were on offense. You don't get credit for the bucket, even though it went in.

And for the record, I traced your IP address. You're posting under two different names from the same address. The only way you could get someone to agree with you is to do it yourself.

Stupid.

[GSH]

A defender guards HIS own basket. You don't guard your opponent's basket. The game of basketball was created where players try to score on the OTHER team's basket. Hence the basket belongs to the defender, not the scorer.

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_4.html?nav=ArticleList

Okay, you win the prize. Of all the stupid people who have made stupid posts, you just won the prize of Ultimate Idiot. That's quite an accomplishment. A lot of people have tried hard to win that prize. It's got to be a God-given talent.

Over...BuhBye.

[polandprzem]

Damn - ball in the cylinder - you can't touch it!

But it must be in the cylinder before the defender blocks it.

That was always the rule ,and as I remember when Chicago made an allyoop and Caffey was blocked in the cylinder it was goaltending.


A yeh- and I havent seen the game yet

[Kori Ellis]

You score in your own basket. You defend your opponent's basket.

As for the block, I don't think it was in the cylinder or above the cylinder when Amare blocked it. I'd have to go look at the replay a few times to check, but who cares.

The Spurs lost because they shot sub .500 from the freethrow line and let the Suns have a hey-day of a third quarter.

On to game five.

[rm13]

Damn you are a dipshit! A feisty dipshit, but a dipshit just the same.

Yes... if you commit goaltending at the opponent's basket, you were playing defense. The team that shot the ball is awarded points, just as if they had made the basket. If you commit goaltending at your own basket, you were on offense. You don't get credit for the bucket, even though it went in.

And for the record, I traced your IP address. You're posting under two different names from the same address. The only way you could get someone to agree with you is to do it yourself.

Stupid.

I think your right actually-I reread it and am still pretty confused...the offended team doesnt say which team is it. I have always known as your basket being the one you defended-so sorry for making a mistake. I hanvt seen the replay so I cant actually watch it for myself-but the announcers didnt say anything of the sort about it being goaltending and they are usually pretty good about that...

[Catharsis]

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_4.html?nav=ArticleList

Okay, you win the prize. Of all the stupid people who have made stupid posts, you just won the prize of Ultimate Idiot. That's quite an accomplishment. A lot of people have tried hard to win that prize. It's got to be a God-given talent.

Over...BuhBye.
Ah, you can't defend you position so you resort to shit like this. Nice.

How is this SO hard to understand?


Section I-A Player Shall Not:
a. Touch the ball or the basket ring when the ball is using the basket ring as its lower base.
EXCEPTION: If a player near his own basket has his hand legally in contact with the ball, it is not a violation if his contact with the ball continues after the ball enters the cylinder, or if, in such action, he touches the basket.
It doesn't matter if you're the offensive player or the defensive player. Since, on a block, possession is not held by the offensive player or defensive player (both have the ball), this rule applies to BOTH.

Pull your head out of your boyfriend's ass and fucking read!

[GSH]

You score in your own basket. You defend your opponent's basket.

As for the block, I don't think it was in the cylinder or above the cylinder when Amare blocked it. I'd have to go look at the replay a few times to check, but who cares.

The Spurs lost because they shot sub .500 from the freethrow line and let the Suns have a hey-day of a third quarter.

On to game five.

You're absolutely right, Kori. From my perspective, it was never a debate about that one thing making the Spurs lose. If they execute tonight, they win. But since it turned into a side discussion, I quoted the actual rule.

I don't like to see refs miss blatantly obvious calls, or refuse to make a call because it is a playoff game. That's what they did on that call. For the record, it doesn't matter when Amare's hand first made contact with the ball. And if you do look at the replay, you will clearly see that the ball would have gone through the rim, had Amare not been touching it while it was in the cylinder. The rule is extremely clear. It doesn't talk about a "blocked shot", and it doesn't talk about when the contact with the ball began. If a player is touching the ball while it is in the cylinder, it's a goaltend. The only exception is a player making a dunk. The refs know that rule all too well. He didn't want to get "involved" at the end of a playoff game. Bad judgment on his part.

The rule is the rule. But the game is over.

[GSH]

Ah, you can't defend you position so you resort to shit like this. Nice.

How is this SO hard to understand?


It doesn't matter if you're the offensive player or the defensive player. Since, on a block, possession is not held by the offensive player or defensive player (both have the ball), this rule applies to BOTH.

Pull your head out of your boyfriend's ass and fucking read!

You don't want to spar with me when it comes to basketball, buttcheek. Find me a rule that says that, and I will personally come and kiss your ass.

What you are referring to is this section of Rule 4:
Section VII-Held Ball A held ball occurs when two opponents have one or both hands firmly on the ball. A held ball should not be called until both players have hands so firmly on the ball that neither can gain sole possession without undue roughness. If a player is lying or sitting on the floor while in possession, he should have an opportunity to throw the ball, but a held ball should be called if there is danger of injury.

It doesn't say anything about a "blocked shot". It means any time two players have simultaneous possession of the ball. That sometimes happens when a player is blocking a shot (although not all that often), but it certainly doesn't happen on every shot block.

[taruky]

What the hell are some of you talking about? Amare's hand was not touching the rim and the ball certainly wasn't in the cylinder. Take off your homer goggles and get a grip. You lost.

[baseline bum]

Big girls don't cry.

BTW, nice game Phoenix.

[JMarkJohns]

If I had to read through all this (most insane crap), then I can post this reply again...

Sorry fella, but the contact with the ball was initiated outside of the cylinder.

http://img.i3.photobucket.com/albums/y74/azcat97/_as1.jpg

Yes, it's true that Duncan's momentum carried Amare's wrist over the cylinder, but what starts out as a clean block, CANNOT end up as goal-tending.

[Solid D]

I thought it was a good, clean block and the replay bore that out. I know it was stipulated in an earlier post but here's proof of what the "own basket" is.
http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_11.html?nav=ArticleList

If the violation is at a team's own basket, no points can be scored and the ball is awarded to the offended team at the free throw line extended on either sideline. If there is a violation by both teams, play shall be resumed by a jump ball between any two opponents at the center circle.

If "own basket" was the basket you are defending, then a violation would result in points being awarded for the offended team.

[NASHville]

It was an awesome block and his hand was NOT in the cylinder. Even MVP's get their shots blocked.

[Fouled Out]

Can you say GOALTENDING!!!!! Might as well put your hand underneath the rim threw the webbing and call that a block shot. The Sun will set in Phoenix. Don't worry it will be over soon for you.

[Ginofan]

It was an awesome block and his hand was NOT in the cylinder. Even MVP's get their shots blocked.

Yup...and I guess MVPs are allowed to travel and carry the ball all the time too huh?

[GrandeDavid]

Besides being in the cylinder, Stoudamire's hand was in contact with the rim. It's an automatic call - goaltending.

You can't make any excuses, we lost the game at the line. But I think we wound up playing 5-on-7 entirely too much.

All on Tim. Shit happens. If possible, Tim should've come up with two hands and snapped Amare's wrist on that rim, but he didn't. He went up with one hand and didn't have the leverage to push it through.

[ambchang]

But the ball hasn't left Duncan's hand, it's a clean block. Duncan played like crap, and the Spurs still only lost by a few points. Series probably in 5 games.

[NASHville]

Clean Block!!!!!!!!!

[vanvannen]

I honestly saw a clean block last night and now it's pretty obvious you can't argue with the pic above. Pretty lame move by TD, there is no way you can get blocked being so close to the rim and by AS. I could go with Shak blocking that shot, but Amare? No freaking way.
TD needs to put some muscle on those arms or at least some heart on his dunk attemps. He should have broken his fucking wrist.
We lost fare and square. Now we've got to win the next one, because every lost game will come back to haunt us.

[GSH]

[QUOTE=vanvannen]it's pretty obvious you can't argue with the pic above. [QUOTE]

No? Well can you argue with this pic?

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y259/gsh/block.jpg

I never denied that Amare made a hell of a play. But it was still a goaltend.

A lot of the people posting their ideas don't know shit about the rules of the game. Unfortunately, a lot of the people reading their bullshit don't know the rules either. A defensive player simply cannot touch the ball or the rim while the ball is in the cylinder.

Here's the photo. Amare's hand is totally inside the cylinder, AND it is touching the rim. Just like I said. These people who keep talking about how it started out as a legal block, so it has to end up that way are full of shit. They don't know the rule, and won't bother to actually read it.

Nice block. Still a goaltend.

[sa_butta]

I thought it was a goaltend from the moment I saw it, but what can you do now the call was not made and that is that. Nice play Amare we will be ready for you in game 5.

[GSH]

And BTW... people post pictures that only show what they want to show for a reason. And they try to read only the portion of the rule that says what they want for a reason.

Anybody who has to play those kinds of games is a weasel.

[IBleedSilverBlack]

Damn nice post and picture. And you are correct about the rule. But you are arguing with kindergarten kids and morons. You can't expect them to think or read for themselves.

[myhc]

Is it still a goaltend if Amare had his hand on the ball before the ball was above the cylinder? Because that's what it looks like from the 1st picture. It looks like he made the block/contact initially before the ball was above the cylinder and Tim's momentum forced Amare's hand above the cylinder and consequently touched the rim.

[GSH]

Is it still a goaltend if Amare had his hand on the ball before the ball was above the cylinder? Because that's what it looks like from the 1st picture. It looks like he made the block/contact initially before the ball was above the cylinder and Tim's momentum forced Amare's hand above the cylinder and consequently touched the rim.

The short answer is "Yes". I posted the entire rule earlier in the post, but it's black-and-white. A lot of NBA rules wind up being dependent on the subjective judgment of the refs. Goaltending is one of the few that is totally clear. Touching the ball in the cylinder is a goaltend. The only exception is the one they made to allow a dunk. They didn't make that exception for the defender.

If you read the rule, it's clear. And the league's intent is clear. Anyone who says anything else is full of shit.

One more thing for you to think about. Look at the picture where Amare's fingertips first contact the ball. Now look at the picture I posted, where the ball is over the basket, and Amare's hand is touching the rim. Now... pretend there is no rim in the picture, and think about what has just happened. The momentum of Tim's shot has clearly carried the ball, along with Amare's hand, downward - exactly where Tim wanted it to go. Ask yourself this - if there were no rim there, would the ball have continued downward another six inches? Of course it would. However strong Amare might be, this time Tim had carried the ball down right to the top of the basket. Amare's hand was sticking out over the basket, and got braced by the rim. That's what finally stopped Tim's downward momentum. You don't need to know all that to prove that it was a goaltend, because the rule is clear. But all these comments about how Tim made a weak move? more bullshit. He shoved the ball through Amare's block, right down to the edge of the rim.

It's a goaltend.

[SpursChampsIII]

Facts about the game:
1. Spurs played lousy defense (overall)...no intensity until late in 4Q. Particularly offensive was the perimeter defense...gave them WAY too many open looks.
2. Spurs lousy free throw shooting
3. Suns shot the lights out...see #1
4. Officiating was horrible...worst I've seen in the playoffs (although Detroit got jobbed pretty bad in their last game), but wasn't the whole reason we lost...Stoudamire is protected for some reason...shoulf have been called for two BLATANTLY obvious charges.
5. Suns packed down in the paint and shut down our post play...knock down the jumpers and that doesn't matter.
6. Suns made adjustments from the first 3 games and found a way to win.
7. Suns WILL NOT win this series.

[bigzak25]

Facts about the game:
1. Spurs played lousy defense (overall)...no intensity until late in 4Q. Particularly offensive was the perimeter defense...gave them WAY too many open looks.
2. Spurs lousy free throw shooting
3. Suns shot the lights out...see #1
4. Officiating was horrible...worst I've seen in the playoffs (although Detroit got jobbed pretty bad in their last game), but wasn't the whole reason we lost...Stoudamire is protected for some reason...shoulf have been called for two BLATANTLY obvious charges.
5. Suns packed down in the paint and shut down our post play...knock down the jumpers and that doesn't matter.
6. Suns made adjustments from the first 3 games and found a way to win.
7. Suns WILL NOT win this series.


well said man....and amare's block was nice...the bastard.

[CaptainLate]

EXACTLY what I was just screaming at the TV about. That was the most obvious case of goaltending I have ever seen. SHould have been basket and 1, which obviously Duncan would have missed and we might still have lost the game.

But still. Could someone explain why 3 refs on the court couldn't see this as goaltending?

And this is the second time this has happened. Game 2 (I think) when the Spurs had about 4 shots at the rim (remember, Nahr fell down), you'll see Stoudamire's hand went under and thru the basket for a block. Damn NBA better get their referee situation under control or there will be more trouble next season. Of course, that's assuming there isn't a lockout which should clue the fans they should be boycotting and telling the Stern Gang to stick it.

[CaptainLate]

GSH,

You should take a step back and use your brain.

Again, Tim Duncan did the same thing to Kenyon Martin in round 1, and Jerome James in round 2..

I don't see you calling for a goaltend on Tim on those plays. Blocking dunks at the rim happens all the time in the league. As much as I disagree with some of the officiating, that was a clean block.

That's because TD's hand never touched the basket during the block.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

I got frustrated and shut the TV off with about five minutes left, and I'm glad I did. If I had seen that play actually happen I probably wouldn't have slept. Face it guys, Amare Stoudemire is a sacred cow to the refs-they won't touch him.

[CaptainLate]

You're absolutely right, Kori. From my perspective, it was never a debate about that one thing making the Spurs lose. If they execute tonight, they win. But since it turned into a side discussion, I quoted the actual rule.

I don't like to see refs miss blatantly obvious calls...

Yeah, like Beno's fould "tripping" Stoudemire in Game 3. How stupid was that call. And the refereeing is suppose to get better as the playoffs progress? <eyes rolling>

[Phenomanul]

What the hell are some of you talking about? Amare's hand was not touching the rim and the ball certainly wasn't in the cylinder. Take off your homer goggles and get a grip. You lost.


Taruky only shows up when we lose.... what cowardice....

I knew Amare's hand touched the rim the first time around and without aid of replays....

[AZLouis]

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_11.html?nav=ArticleList Click here for the full rules.

It was clean as clean can be.

http://img.i3.photobucket.com/albums/y74/azcat97/_as1.jpg

Take it for what it is. 1 loss in the last 4 games. Spurs are up 3-1.

[samikeyp]

What the hell are some of you talking about? Amare's hand was not touching the rim and the ball certainly wasn't in the cylinder. Take off your homer goggles and get a grip. You lost.

the same ones you wore last season when Hedo was here?

[Kori Ellis]

So GSH, you are contending that the Amare blocked the shot (prior to the ball being above cylinder) and then Tim's momentum forced Amare's hand above the rim (and eventually touching the rim) and it became a goaltend?

I'm not being a smart ass; I'm just clarifying your point.

[wildbill2u]

In this situation and a chance to extend this series, the refs will stern you every time.

There used to be a lot more suspicion that the Refs called games to make sure the playoff games were extended. Obviously, the league, TV and teams benefit if more games are played and all the extra game revenues are enhanced.

The Refs used to be paid by the game so they also had a financial interest in more games. I'm not sure if that is true today. Does anyone know?

All that being said, let's just go out and play like Spurs and win this series.

[JMarkJohns]

And BTW... people post pictures that only show what they want to show for a reason. And they try to read only the portion of the rule that says what they want for a reason.

Anybody who has to play those kinds of games is a weasel.

I'm touched...

I assume you are refurring to me. Silly me...should've known better, but for the hell of it I will repost and link to me first post.

LINK: http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=291705&postcount=80

Sorry fella, but the contact with the ball was initiated outside of the cylinder.

http://img.i3.photobucket.com/albums/y74/azcat97/_as1.jpg

Yes, it's true that Duncan's momentum carried Amare's wrist over the cylinder, but what starts out as a clean block, CANNOT end up as goal-tending.

Are you blind. I clearly conceded what you said.

If you want to make a federal case out of this, that's your right. But fact is, the play started out as a clean block and by NO known nor understood rule was changed to a goal-tending.

What if the ball had hit the backboard after initial contact, with Duncan still touching it, instead of going over the cylinder? Would you be calling "goaltend" because Amare was touching the ball after it had hit the backboard? Would you do so even after photo's showed you the initial block was 100% clean?

I posted what I posted because not even you posted the entire story. Your posts make it sound like the entire play goaltending. You never stated that the initial contact was clean...but rather ran around that FACT. Not even you are above the same "weasel" tactics to which I'm now accused.

I posted the pic to prove my point, while at the same time acknowledging part of yours. Yes, the block eventually occurred over the cyclinder, but it didn't start out that way, nor was it done so intentionally.

It was a clean play that turned questionable (at best), but frankly, I don't see it. He blocked the shot clean to start out, had his hand forced over the rim, then followed through with the finish of the block.

[MadDog73]

It was a great block. Pure and simple.

I'm betting Tim won't take to kindly to it and have a monster game tomorrow. In fact, I propose the vbookie event tomorrow be based on Tim's points or free throws.

[Rydia]

Why is it always the refs fault? You all got beat. Admit it and come out to play on Wednesday!


Hahaha! Some fan why don't you go whine on your own board. That's all you guys did when you lost the first three!

[Catharsis]

Yup...and I guess MVPs are allowed to travel and carry the ball all the time too huh?
When did Parker and Manu become MVPs?

[samikeyp]

Jesus people.....can we let it go?

[Catharsis]

I got frustrated and shut the TV off with about five minutes left, and I'm glad I did. If I had seen that play actually happen I probably wouldn't have slept. Face it guys, Amare Stoudemire is a sacred cow to the refs-they won't touch him.
You have got to be kidding me? He picked up two early ticky-tac calls that TD NEVER would have been called for early in the 1st quarter. He then proceeded to go to have only 6 free throw attempts. Seems to be that if Amare were getting special treatment he would have been at the line as much if not more than TD. Unless you believe he went uncontested in the paint, which would make more sense than the refs blowing it.

For God's sake, he was tied for the most fouls committed last night.

[Xolotl]

Please for the love of everything Holy, lock this thread :smokin

[Catharsis]

I love how people are upset that Duncan either didn't be more forceful with the dunk or do it two handed. Then I remember about all the stuff I watched about what a trooper he is to be playing with two bad ankles and where most players would be sitting out the entire game. Seems to me if he's that badly hurt (as ABC and ESPN have been portraying), nobody should be questioning his effort. But perhaps ABC and ESPN are just looking for drama...

[tim_duncan_fan]

The block was good people. Lets let amare keep his first real defensive play. Who knows when he'll get another one.

[nbascribe]

The picture shows the beginning of the play...That's a block. Just because Duncan carried Stoudamire's hand to the cylinder negates your argument....PERIOD!

Give the poster credit. In a court of law, you need evidence....that is photo that everybody has used to say it was a block. Quit being a damn fan for a moment and use a little basketball intelligence.

You're argument was viable but it's wrong.....CyberBob posted the correct rule and a poster gave you the evidence. Now what do you want? A damn e-mail from the league?

[myhc]

So GSH, you are contending that the Amare blocked the shot (prior to the ball being above cylinder) and then Tim's momentum forced Amare's hand above the rim (and eventually touching the rim) and it became a goaltend?

I'm not being a smart ass; I'm just clarifying your point.

I'd like this point clarified as well GSH. Your previous answer was unsatisfactory. :)

[nbascribe]

I'd like GSH to get over the fact that he was wrong...He's worse than that guy in the Dodge commercial who can't admit he got the family lost in the desert and the Durango has a DVD NAVIGATION SYSTEM!!!

You are wrong on your point GSH. The rule was applied correctly. If the Spurs got over it, why the hell can't you?

Like so many have said, if Tim wasn't 11-23 from the line, this would be a moot point. 70% free throws put us in the win column.

Get over it dude.

[Catharsis]

Like so many have said, if Tim wasn't 11-23 from the line, this would be a moot point. 70% free throws put us in the win column.

Get over it dude.
Actually, the Spurs got A LOT of points off of offensive rebounds from Duncan's misses--one three point basket too, as I remember. I wish there was a stat recorded to see how many actually. I would venture to say it was at least 8--Suns suck on the defensive boards.

[ALVAREZ6]

It was a clean block.

With the game on the line, did Duncan just assume that he would get a free dunk like that in Amare's face or what? That isn't a matter of physical ability, but decision making.
Duncan should have made a better decision. He could have easily layed it up off the backboard, or thrown a pump fake or something. You can't get a free dunk in Amare's face in the most important play of the game, in the most important game for the suns.

[NCaliSpurs]

Amare's failed shot block displayed his great athleticism.

But I agree with Rick Von Braun and GSH completely.

That shot was 100% going in the basket if Amare had not bolstered his hand with the rim.

That, my friends, is goaltending.

GSH's picture is the smoking gun.

[Catharsis]

Amare's failed shot block displayed his great athleticism.

But I agree with Rick Von Braun and GSH completely.

That shot was 100% going in the basket if Amare had not bolstered his hand with the rim.

That, my friends, is goaltending.

GSH's picture is the smoking gun.
No, it just discounts that as long as legal contact is made prior to the ball entering the cylinder, it is a legal block. GSH keeps ignoring that.

[Extra Stout]

No, it just discounts that as long as legal contact is made prior to the ball entering the cylinder, it is a legal block. GSH keeps ignoring that.
I find nothing in the NBA rule book that supports your contention. The rule simply says if the defender is touching the ball while it is in the cylinder, the basket is good. If an offensive player touches the ball, it is a turnover, unless the player is dunking the ball.

Theoretically, if Duncan had slammed it with two hands and broken Amare's wrist in the process, it still would have been a goaltend.

But, alas, I think it may just be a technicality. It was technically a goaltend, but no official would ever call it that way. They enforce the rule according to the way you have described it.

[Catharsis]

I find nothing in the NBA rule book that supports your contention. The rule simply says if the defender is touching the ball while it is in the cylinder, the basket is good. If an offensive player touches the ball, it is a turnover, unless the player is dunking the ball.

Theoretically, if Duncan had slammed it with two hands and broken Amare's wrist in the process, it still would have been a goaltend.

But, alas, I think it may just be a technicality. It was technically a goaltend, but no official would ever call it that way. They enforce the rule according to the way you have described it.
No, as rule 11 states, it clearly supports by contention. It is being inferred upon that the rule ONLY applies to offensive players which is false. It applies to both.

[AZLouis]

Amare's failed shot block displayed his great athleticism.

But I agree with Rick Von Braun and GSH completely.

That shot was 100% going in the basket if Amare had not bolstered his hand with the rim.

That, my friends, is goaltending.

GSH's picture is the smoking gun.


Your contention is that all dunks cannot be blocked?

The block was clean and treated as such no matter how much anybody complains.

The rules for goaltending to do NOT say that it shall be considered goaltending when a clean block is made when on offensive player forces the hand of the defensive player to make contact with the rim.

GET OVER IT