One more reason to like the Spurs against the Lakers

[TD 21]

In addition to home court and the fact that they've been a flat out better team all season . . .

What's the first thing you notice when these two teams play? For me, it's always how much bigger Bynum and Gasol are compared to Duncan. They're listed at 7-0, 7-0 and 6-11, respectively, but it's obvious there's a bigger gap. Duncan is a legit 6-11, so if they're both noticeably bigger, you don't have to be a genius to figure out that they're both well over 7-0.

I presume the Lakers are aware of this advantage, too. They seem to make it a point of emphasis to play Bynum slightly more against the Spurs than against other teams and to establish him in the post and have him be aggressive/physical . . . when it's okay with Bryant, that is.

So that begs the question: Why doesn't Jackson close with Bynum against the Spurs? By not playing him, he plays right into he Spurs' hands, because that neutralizes the Lakers' biggest advantage over the Spurs, which is their size. Physically, Duncan can handle Gasol and McDyess can handle Odom. Sure, they're smaller, but they're stronger. Bynum is the one guy who the Spurs have no answer for physically.

Better yet, he could close with Bynum and Odom. The way Odom and Artest are shooting this season, not only would they not lose perimeter shooting, they'd actually gain more. This move would force Bryant to guard Ginobili and Odom to guard Jefferson. Jefferson might blow past Odom a time or two, but it's not like the Spurs would recognize the match-up, isolate Jefferson repeatedly and have him break Odom down off the dribble, because that's not Jefferson's game.

Obviously, as a Spurs fan, I hope Jackson doesn't catch on to this and continues on with the same closing lineup. But from their perspective, it makes no sense to not have Bynum closing.

It's something that may sound small, but if they're going to play the final 8 or so minutes of games in a series against the Spurs with their biggest advantage neutralized, that could be the difference in a series.

[Cane]

And a healthy Bonner would be a decent option to help combat the Lakers size advantage since his floor spacing will lure their bigs away from the paint.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I'm pretty sure Phil will be being playing Bynum to close out games. The key for the Spurs will be to get the Laker bigs in foul trouble. That would be huge.

[Mugen]

Defense has never been our problem against the lakers recently.

what's really killed us against them are the scoring lapses because their length really gives us trouble. Phil always packs the paint in the playoffs to keep parker and Manu perimeter.

our key to beating them is our 3pt shooting which is what gave them trouble against the Suns last year.

guys like RJ, Neal, Bonner and Hill are going to be huge in determining our success against them. They have to step up big because the lakers will force them to beat us.

[Doctor J]

Bynum will be used much much more in the playoff series against Spurs.

There is no reason for Phil Jackson to use him much against Spurs during the regular season, because the more Bynum is used, the more counter-attack strategies Spurs can invent.

[itzsoweezee]

Defense has never been our problem against the lakers recently.

what's really killed us against them are the scoring lapses because their length really gives us trouble. Phil always packs the paint in the playoffs to keep parker and Manu perimeter.

our key to beating them is our 3pt shooting which is what gave them trouble against the Suns last year.

guys like RJ, Neal, Bonner and Hill are going to be huge in determining our success against them. They have to step up big because the lakers will force them to beat us.


In addition, the Spurs need to run, run, run. That's why they blew the Lakers out in the first game. The Spurs cannot win a seven game series playing a halfcourt game against LA.

[DMC]

Everyone is reading into the regular season too much. A team like the Lakers gets bored with an 82 game schedule. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the Lakers only go .500 after the All-Star break. The playoffs is what they are waiting for and until then they will mail it in.

They finished with the best record in the West last year. Some of the Lakers are new. Some have only one one ring. Some have only won two rings. Only Kobe and Fish have more.

Where does the boredom come from? It's not like the team, for the most part, knows what a three peat feels like.

I don't buy it. They might step it up come playoff time or they might not. I don't think teams can just turn it on like that at the end of the season. Show me a team that did.

[DMC]

Defense has never been our problem against the lakers recently.

what's really killed us against them are the scoring lapses because their length really gives us trouble. Phil always packs the paint in the playoffs to keep parker and Manu perimeter.

our key to beating them is our 3pt shooting which is what gave them trouble against the Suns last year.

guys like RJ, Neal, Bonner and Hill are going to be huge in determining our success against them. They have to step up big because the lakers will force them to beat us.
That's a flawed argument. If your defense is solid, you can withstand scoring lapses. Denying their two is as good as making your own.

[ducks]

lakers could go .500
but they want to beat the better teams

they wanted to beat boston and spurs

[ezau]

What I notice about Kobe the past couple of games is that he's gonna break down his man individually and once he sees gaps in the defense, he'll it off to Gasol or Bynum. The key for beating the Lakers is by letting Kobe hog the ball for the most part of the game. Sure, he's still a great player, but we all know that he has become a volume shooter. I'd rather let Kobe shoot the ball than him facilitate the offense for the Lakers.

[rascal]

Everyone is reading into the regular season too much. A team like the Lakers gets bored with an 82 game schedule. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the Lakers only go .500 after the All-Star break. The playoffs is what they are waiting for and until then they will mail it in.

Agree that the lakers are bored with the regular season and still feel they can just turn it on come playoff time and coast into the finals. They will play better than .500 the rest of the way.

[barbacoataco]

What I notice about Kobe the past couple of games is that he's gonna break down his man individually and once he sees gaps in the defense, he'll it off to Gasol or Bynum. The key for beating the Lakers is by letting Kobe hog the ball for the most part of the game. Sure, he's still a great player, but we all know that he has become a volume shooter. I'd rather let Kobe shoot the ball than him facilitate the offense for the Lakers.

Agree.

[barbacoataco]

The other thing about the Lakers this year is they have no depth. Blake is not a good player. There is a lot of pressure on Kobe, Gasol, Odom and Bynum.

[jjktkk]

What I notice about Kobe the past couple of games is that he's gonna break down his man individually and once he sees gaps in the defense, he'll it off to Gasol or Bynum. The key for beating the Lakers is by letting Kobe hog the ball for the most part of the game. Sure, he's still a great player, but we all know that he has become a volume shooter. I'd rather let Kobe shoot the ball than him facilitate the offense for the Lakers.

+1. Let Kobe get his and shutdown the Lakers bigs.

[rascal]

Bynum will be used much much more in the playoff series against Spurs.

There is no reason for Phil Jackson to use him much against Spurs during the regular season, because the more Bynum is used, the more counter-attack strategies Spurs can invent.

Phil knows what he is doing. There will be many tears in here after the spurs go down. This regular season record is playing for a big letdown and disappointment.

[Blackjack]

That's a flawed argument. If your defense is solid, you can withstand scoring lapses. Denying their two is as good as making your own.

It's actually not. The Spurs did everything they wanted and hoped to do against the Lakers in '08 defensively. They lost because they couldn't put the ball in the hole -- something Popovich admitted to immediately after the series and has since reiterated.

You're just not going to hold teams with that type of talent in this day and age to 85-90 points a game. The rules and talent just won't allow it.

To someone else's point about the Lakers packing the lane and the Spurs not being able to combat it successfully, think about the last two games you watched against the Lakers. How many post-ups did you really see from Duncan? How often were the Spurs bigs working from the high post or in the screen-and-roll game?

I think Pop's not only (rightfully) tailored the offense more to guard play and the transition game for purposes of utilizing their talent and preventing wear-and-tear on Duncan, but because it's ultimately the way they'll have to play to win it all.

The Spurs aren't going to be able to play a traditional inside-out game with Duncan, whether it's against the Lakers or Celtics. To beat those two teams they've got to keep their bigs out of the middle or keep them on the move to prevent defenses from locking in on them. Also, they obviously have the ability to beat up on both the Lakers and Celtics (the Lakers specifically) if they get out on the break and neutralize the length advantage the two possess in the halfcourt. Duncan's combined for 10 points in two games against the Lakers, both of which have resulted in wins. That's not an aberration to me.

The Spurs are just doing what they've got to do and Duncan's role against the Lakers is to anchor the D, hit the boards (often being the body that allows one of his teammates to get the board; he's the only big that can box out a Bynum and/or Gasol at times), ignite the break with outlet passes and generally just make life easier for his shooters and playmakers -- running the court and drawing the defense inside the paint to open the 3 or cleverly using his body as a lead blocker for the likes of Parker, those are big contributions that often go unnoticed. His passing is big for the team too. He's still one of the best facilitators there are when it comes to bigmen and he can still read a double better than just about anyone and create a quality look for his spot-up shooters when he needs to.

Tim's essentially become an offensive or defensive linemen for the Spurs -- absolutely vital and essential but not necessarily something you can quantify with statistics. If you you either don't watch the Spurs enough as an outsider or you only watch the Spurs as a loyalist, I don't think you can appreciate what Duncan still does for the team. The outsiders don't see him enough to appreciate what he does night-in and night-out and the loyalists don't know any better because they have nothing by which to compare.

[rascal]

lakers could go .500
but they want to beat the better teams

they wanted to beat boston and spurs

Boston over LA in the finals.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

It's actually not. The Spurs did everything they wanted and hoped to do against the Lakers in '08 defensively. They lost because they couldn't put the ball in the hole -- something Popovich admitted to immediately after the series and has since reiterated.

You're just not going to hold teams with that type of talent in this day and age to 85-90 points a game. The rules and talent just won't allow it.

To someone else's point about the Lakers packing the lane and the Spurs not being able to combat it successfully, think about the last two games you watched against the Lakers. How many post-ups did you really see from Duncan? How often were the Spurs bigs working from the high post or in the screen-and-roll game?

I think Pop's not only (rightfully) tailored the offense more to guard play and the transition game for purposes of utilizing their talent and preventing wear-and-tear on Duncan, but because it's ultimately the way they'll have to play to win it all.

The Spurs aren't going to be able to play a traditional inside-out game with Duncan, whether it's against the Lakers or Celtics. To beat those two teams they've got to keep their bigs out of the middle or keep them on the move to prevent defenses from locking in on them. Also, they obviously have the ability to beat up on both the Lakers and Celtics (the Lakers specifically) if they get out on the break and neutralize the length advantage the two possess in the halfcourt. Duncan's combined for 10 points in two games against the Lakers, both of which have resulted in wins. That's not an aberration to me.

The Spurs are just doing what they've got to do and Duncan's role against the Lakers is to anchor the D, hit the boards (often being the body that allows one of his teammates to get the board; he's the only big that can box out a Bynum and/or Gasol at times), ignite the break with outlet passes and generally just make life easier for his shooters and playmakers -- running the court and drawing the defense inside the paint to open the 3 or cleverly using his body as a lead blocker for the likes of Parker, those are big contributions that often go unnoticed. His passing is big for the team too. He's still one of the best facilitators there are when it comes to bigmen and he can still read a double better than just about anyone and create a quality look for his spot-up shooters when he needs to.

Tim's essentially become an offensive or defensive linemen for the Spurs -- absolutely vital and essential but not necessarily something you can quantify with statistics. If you you either don't watch the Spurs enough as an outsider or you only watch the Spurs as a loyalist, I don't think you can appreciate what Duncan still does for the team. The outsiders don't see him enough to appreciate what he does night-in and night-out and the loyalists don't know any better because they have nothing by which to compare.

:toast

[100%duncan]

they finished with the best record in the west last year. Some of the lakers are new. Some have only one one ring. Some have only won two rings. Only kobe and fish have more.

Where does the boredom come from? It's not like the team, for the most part, knows what a three peat feels like.

I don't buy it. They might step it up come playoff time or they might not. I don't think teams can just turn it on like that at the end of the season. Show me a team that did.

+1

[Rummpd]

Duncan may be 2 or so inches or more shorter than Bynum but his reach is rigtht there with Bynum and push come to shove down the stretch will defend Bynum and despite the size and height advantage Tim will use his strong base and keep Bynum away from the basket as well as anyone not named Howard can.. Gasol has a very long reach but does not jump.

If Spurs get effective minutes out of some combo of Blair/Dice/Bonner/ and at least 5-10 of the new Splitter they will be fine. Spurs are a much quicker team, deeper and shoot better - when was the last time Spurs always had 5 true scorers on the floor most of the time?

Plus they pull Artest off the floor and Manu will do insane unless Bryant covers Manu then Parker or a Neal/Hill will go off - pick your poison if you are LAL.

Hell we won two games with Duncan having less than 20 points - I guarantee he will be getting at least 15 and 12 against the LAL

Most importantly, LAL without home court will fall to the Mavs first. Book it and you heard it here first.

[my2sons]

Everyone is reading into the regular season too much. A team like the Lakers gets bored with an 82 game schedule. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the Lakers only go .500 after the All-Star break. The playoffs is what they are waiting for and until then they will mail it in.

I'd have a better time agreeing with this if the fakers had a better record against the better team. If a team sleep walks through the season it still normally gets up for big games, and I have not seen it...Don't discount their injuries and age and kobe insistance on taking over when he may not be quite as healthy or spry as in past years.

[maddnezz]

Lakers are good so are The Spurs......we will be in the finals againts the C's. Quit all this bullshit scared talk and believe and support the team. . Bynum has reached his peak trust me, I watched him every day here in the alpharetta lifetime fitness when he worked out with dr Z. They lifted weights and he got to bulky. Thats why his knees are suspect and the reason he is so slow. Laker mgt. tried to mold him into a psudo Shaq with bad results. He dosent carry his bulk naturaly as you can see when he plays he looks awkward. when Shaq was that young he was heavier and quicker. Gasol just shrinks up at clutch time it aint in his nature to step up he's the second banana. LO is a watcher not a leader. Ron Ron......can't concentrate.Fish should be assistant coaching. Kobe and Phil are the only real weapons they have, that's it, and I dont think Phill will be suiting up anytime soon. Stop talkin bout how dominate they are gonna be in the playoffs and be optimistic on how our guys are gonna be in the playoffs! Do you really think that the guys are gonna puss out in the PO? I think the boys are gonna give it everything they got and a little more especially the vets. You can tell that some of the guys have a chip on their shoulder and thats something I havent seen in a long, long time. Also all of the trade talk, screw that shit if you gonna add anybody add a bully or a head headhunter to throw some bows,check some hips and bust some lips! Every :lobt:that the Spurs won the had a thug,:ihit Kersey, Willis, Ferry, Nazir, Bruce, and Horry. When you get in an opposing players head:pimpslap it makes the game eaiser for you to win because as every Guy on this board knows the male EGO is very fragile and easy to manipulate:nutkick:. Once Pop designates that role to someone on the roster the skys the limit.:flag:

[quentin_compson]

Everyone is reading into the regular season too much.

Exactly. I'm pretty sure Bynum will be closing out games in the playoffs, and I also think the Lakers will turn it up a notch or two in the playoffs. Maybe they're no longer as strong as the last couple of years, but that remains to be seen.
Both the Lakers and the Spurs will alter their games in some ways once the playoffs start. Duncan will definitely get more touches (and play more minutes), but I guess the Spurs would be wise to try and go with the up-tempo game we've seen so far this season.
LA would be a very tough team to beat - if they will be at the top of their game, that is.

[DPG21920]

The thing that gets me is do the Spurs have another level? It appears, based on what we have seen in the playoffs the past two years that LA definitely has another level. Do the Spurs?

One would hope so with our Big 3 playing more minutes in the playoffs, but like I said in my other thread, that doesn't mean there won't be some problems as well.

[rmt]

It's actually not. The Spurs did everything they wanted and hoped to do against the Lakers in '08 defensively. They lost because they couldn't put the ball in the hole -- something Popovich admitted to immediately after the series and has since reiterated.

You're just not going to hold teams with that type of talent in this day and age to 85-90 points a game. The rules and talent just won't allow it.

To someone else's point about the Lakers packing the lane and the Spurs not being able to combat it successfully, think about the last two games you watched against the Lakers. How many post-ups did you really see from Duncan? How often were the Spurs bigs working from the high post or in the screen-and-roll game?

I think Pop's not only (rightfully) tailored the offense more to guard play and the transition game for purposes of utilizing their talent and preventing wear-and-tear on Duncan, but because it's ultimately the way they'll have to play to win it all.

The Spurs aren't going to be able to play a traditional inside-out game with Duncan, whether it's against the Lakers or Celtics. To beat those two teams they've got to keep their bigs out of the middle or keep them on the move to prevent defenses from locking in on them. Also, they obviously have the ability to beat up on both the Lakers and Celtics (the Lakers specifically) if they get out on the break and neutralize the length advantage the two possess in the halfcourt. Duncan's combined for 10 points in two games against the Lakers, both of which have resulted in wins. That's not an aberration to me.

The Spurs are just doing what they've got to do and Duncan's role against the Lakers is to anchor the D, hit the boards (often being the body that allows one of his teammates to get the board; he's the only big that can box out a Bynum and/or Gasol at times), ignite the break with outlet passes and generally just make life easier for his shooters and playmakers -- running the court and drawing the defense inside the paint to open the 3 or cleverly using his body as a lead blocker for the likes of Parker, those are big contributions that often go unnoticed. His passing is big for the team too. He's still one of the best facilitators there are when it comes to bigmen and he can still read a double better than just about anyone and create a quality look for his spot-up shooters when he needs to.

Tim's essentially become an offensive or defensive linemen for the Spurs -- absolutely vital and essential but not necessarily something you can quantify with statistics. If you you either don't watch the Spurs enough as an outsider or you only watch the Spurs as a loyalist, I don't think you can appreciate what Duncan still does for the team. The outsiders don't see him enough to appreciate what he does night-in and night-out and the loyalists don't know any better because they have nothing by which to compare.

This is a perfect post of how TD has to play to help SA beat LA - anchor the defense, rebound the ball and outlet the pass. SA must attack, attack, attack (in particular Parker) and the 3 point shooters must shoot a high percentage. Phil Jackson will pack the paint to stop TP and Manu, and it's scary to think that SA's hopes will hang on Bonner, Neal, RJ, Hill and Manu's 3 pt shooting (under pressure).

The difference between the pace of the first game and the second game and the ease/difficulty of the wins is telling. In the first game, they ran and it was essentially a blowout. The second was at LA's pace and SA can't depend on winning it with a tip-in. LA will wear SA down over a 7 game series if the games are played in the half-court.

LA is just out-of-sync now. They have a lot of upside when they get their act together. It's hard to keep up the intensity when they've been to the Finals 3 straight years.

[Mugen]

That's a flawed argument. If your defense is solid, you can withstand scoring lapses. Denying their two is as good as making your own.

not really but okay.

[rascal]

not really but okay.

The spurs had solid defenses in the early 2000s from 2000 to 2002 and could not get past the lakers becausae they could not score enough during that span.

Robinson and Duncan on the same team and the spurs could not surround those two with the right players to get a title until the Lakers broke up Kobe and Shaq.

[rascal]

LA is just out-of-sync now. They have a lot of upside when they get their act together. It's hard to keep up the intensity when they've been to the Finals 3 straight years.

Agree. There is plenty of time for the Lakers to right the ship which I expect them to do. Too many here counting them out already.

[Mel_13]

The spurs had solid defenses in the early 2000s from 2000 to 2002 and could not get past the lakers becausae they could not score enough during that span.

Robinson and Duncan on the same team and the spurs could not surround those two with the right players to get a title until the Lakers broke up Kobe and Shaq.

http://espn.go.com/nba/recap?id=230515013

[rascal]

http://espn.go.com/nba/recap?id=230515013

Thanks for the correction. :toast

[xellos88330]

Spurs have a speed advantage. That is why Odom was in at the end of the game, not Bynum. Bynum is a huge guy sure, but he isn't the fastest big on the court at any time against the Spurs.

The Lakers have a slow style of play and have had trouble stopping speedier teams. When they play slow paced basketball they are great. The problem is that the Spurs have a speed advantage at every position when Bynum is on the floor. Bynum just can't seem to rotate fast enough, and when he does, he can't get back into position once his help is not needed anymore. This flaw will only compound once Bonner is healthy.

For me, the keys to beating the Lakers is to limit their bigs scoring opportunities and polishing the glass. If the Spurs can get one (hopefully both) of those things to happen, the Lakers are in serious trouble regardless of the pace of the game.

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

"It's all about making shots"

[HarlemHeat37]

The Lakers' core players have been in 3 deep Finals runs in the last 3 seasons..Kobe has the 2nd highest usage % of his career, only next to the 2005-2006 season..they have had the easiest schedule in the NBA..you can talk about the Lakers having "another level" in the playoffs, but this is an old team with a lot of mileage the last few years, there's a better chance of key players playing hurt than there is of them "turning it on"..

Last year's Lakers team was 16 games over .500 against teams with records of .500 or better, and that includes their poor stretch to end the season, when Bynum was injured and on the sidelines..this year's Lakers team is at .500 against teams with records of .500 or better, they have struggled vs. these teams, both when healthy and when key players are hurt..

Last year's Lakers had an offensive rating improvement of +5 in the playoffs, but a defensive decrease of -5..you can account for the level of competition, obviously, so while I suppose you can say that they "stepped up" in the playoffs, it wasn't by much..they did not have a dominant run to the Finals..they beat the Thunder by a put-back clincher in game 6, they beat a mediocre Suns team(for WCF standards) by an Artest buzzer-beater that led to the clinching game, and it took them a 7th game to beat the ECF winner..

Can the Lakers be as good as last year?..sure, with some improvement, they can..however, there's a major difference..they will have much better competition than last year, they will have to go without HCA in probably both the WCSF and the WCF, and most important of all, this is extra mileage on their legs, which plays a key factor..

The Lakers can obviously still win the West, but the Spurs should have plenty of confidence if the teams meet in the WCF..

[Vito Corleone]

Phil knows what he is doing. There will be many tears in here after the spurs go down. This regular season record is playing for a big letdown and disappointment.

The Spurs aren't playing for regular season records. They never have, they are preparing for the post season, just like the Lakers. The Spurs are winning while keeping the minutes of their older guys in check. This is something that should scare the rest of the League. The Spurs have about 2 or 3 more levels they can also turn it up.


Exactly. I'm pretty sure Bynum will be closing out games in the playoffs, and I also think the Lakers will turn it up a notch or two in the playoffs. Maybe they're no longer as strong as the last couple of years, but that remains to be seen.
Both the Lakers and the Spurs will alter their games in some ways once the playoffs start. Duncan will definitely get more touches (and play more minutes), but I guess the Spurs would be wise to try and go with the up-tempo game we've seen so far this season.
LA would be a very tough team to beat - if they will be at the top of their game, that is.

Exactly, I know the Lakers will turn it up in the Playoffs, but so Will San Antonio.


The spurs had solid defenses in the early 2000s from 2000 to 2002 and could not get past the lakers becausae they could not score enough during that span.

Robinson and Duncan on the same team and the spurs could not surround those two with the right players to get a title until the Lakers broke up Kobe and Shaq.

??? The Spurs beat the 3-peat Lakers with both kobe and shaq. Learn your history before you post.

[21_Blessings]

The Lakers can obviously still win the West, but the Spurs should have plenty of confidence if the teams meet in the WCF..

If as in if the Spurs can actually beat the Bees. Sorta funny how Spur fan is already penciling their team into the WCF. Now, Laker fan can do that when the West has effectively been LAL's jerk-off towel the past three years.

I hope SA won't be using a couple worthless regular season victores wins from Dec/Feb as confidence for a playoff series though... :pop: isn't actually that stupid, is he?

[mingus]

some of use don't need two reg. season wins over LA to see that the Spurs will be a force that LA will have to deal with. been sayin' it since the off-season...while everyone else was sayin how OKC would be LA's best competition for years to come.

Spurs when healthy have a good shot at beating LA. point to the times these two teams have been healthy and played against eachother and it usually goes down to the wire. i expect the same thing this year if everyone stays healthy.

scared lakers fan is scared.