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View Full Version : Short Game Grades/Extended Game Thoughts - Spurs @ Pistons - February 8th, 2011



Cry Havoc
02-09-2011, 09:55 AM
Format change!

In light of the fact that the Spurs have 4 games in 5 days, I don't think I'll have enough time to devote a large paragraph to each player for each game. So in lieu of skipping games with no grades at all, I'm going to change the format up a bit. Let me know what you think of it compared to standard game grades, and perhaps I'll incorporate these a bit more in the future if it's well received.

I had a feeling the Pistons weren't going to let us get away with this one easily. In a very tough game, the Spurs continued to battle and finally put the game away in the fourth quarter, improving the league's best mark to 43-8, continuing one of the 5 best starts in the history of the NBA. The game was largely overshadowed though, thanks to trade talks from Denver and LA about a potential Carmelo Anthony-for-Andrew Bynum trade. Funny, wasn't it the aging, over-the-hill Spurs, the team that would be lucky to be a top 4 seed out West who needed help and a big trade this year to have any hope of beating the Lake Show, not the other way around? Regardless of what you make of the 'Melo-drama, the Lakers are very close to panic mode right now, if not fully convinced that they are doomed to an ousting from one of the other elite teams in the league with the way things stand.


Game Grades:

Tony Parker: B. Yes, he turned the ball over a lot, but he also didn't miss a shot until late in the 4th, going 7-7 from the field to start the game. He also dished out 7 assists. If Parker doesn't keep the offense moving, we lose this game, no doubt about it.

Manu Ginobili: C-. Going to get crucified for this, but Manu had a horrible game until midway through the 3rd. He started 0-6 shooting and fumbled the ball a number of times, either turning it over or completely destroying ball movement. It seems he's lost his focus. Manu was THE WORST player on the court in the first half. Overall, a subpar effort from Manu, and if he plays this badly for 30 minutes per game in the playoffs, the Spurs could be fishing before the Finals.

Richard Jefferson: B+. Shot the ball well. EXCELLENT defense this game from RJ. He seems to be improving his footwork in every game as a Spurs player. Another solid outing from O4O (Our 4th Option).

Tim Duncan: C-. Shot was very off tonight. Missed his patented jumper from the key and went 4-8 at the line. Good defense by Tim though, except for a stretch in the 2nd Quarter where he and Dice got caught flat-footed repeatedly.

DeJuan Blair: A-. I love this kid. Led the team in rebs, and 2nd in points to Tony on 9-15 shooting. He had more hustle than any other Spurs player throughout the game on both ends of the floor. He's officially raised a tier in grading, and therefore will have to work even harder to get an A from now on, and that means playing better D.

George Hill: B+. Gets a boost in his grade because he's becoming more of a playmaker/facilitator. Had one of the assists of the season in the 2nd quarter with a ridiculous pass under the hoop to Blair or Dice. Still defending well, needs to come off screens better.

Antonio McDyess: C-. Solid outing from him, but some defensive lapses gave the Pistons early penetration for buckets. Still, can't complain about his effort, this is likely just a one game flub for him.

Matt Bonner: A-. He's baaaaaaaaaaaack. Bonner gets a high grade because he shot so well after extended time away. Helped put the game away in the 4th. Obviously needs to get his BBall legs back under him.

Gary Neal: C. 2-2 from downtown and then picked up some cheap (questionable) fouls to send him to the bench. Looked like Neal was on pace for a big night before the refs took him out of it. I can't dock him for not being on the court when it looked like he was going to be a weapon.

Gregg Popovich: C. So, on a night when no one is bringing intensity, you decide not to play Tiago, who's coming off his career-best game? Unbelievably poor decision by Pop. I understand saving him for the next game, but he could have made a big difference in the first half. I wonder if Pop knows how badly his coaching affects confidence. Would also liked to see more Neal, considering he was 2-2 from 3.


Game Thoughts:

Defense (Before offense, naturally):

The starting 5 played really solid defense early on. If the Pistons don't hit a series of shots that are normally tough to make from mid-range, they would have looked even better. The Pistons tried to ISO with Prince against RJ, and he shut Tayshaun down so thoroughly that they didn't use it for the rest of the game. Dice came out and played lackluster on defense for most of the 1st half, didn't box out and didn't get rebounds. The Spurs limited the Pistons to shooting jumpshots until the 2nd quarter when they started getting to the rim on the D, especially with Duncan and Dice on the court, who were looking pretty slow. Tim picked it up though and ended with 3 blocks. The Spurs tried a stretch with Hill, Neal, and Manu on the court during the second quarter and it was probably the worst defensive series of the night, as no one rotated and gave the Pistons wide open shots and drives into the lane. FOUR different times in my game notes I wrote that we weren't playing with much energy... an ominous sign for the first game of 4 in the next 5 nights. Hopefully they were saving something for the next 3.


Offense:

It was a frustrating game to watch. Literally every time the Spurs put a decent run together, they'd relax and let the Pistons back into it. Well guess what, San Antonio? A lot a teams out there are fighting for their playoff lives, and they aren't going to go away just because we're 43-8. Quite the opposite, since everyone wants to beat us. Once again, Tony was the only Spurs player who even wanted to burn energy in the first half. Pop should sit him a game and make the other starters work a little bit, because TP's going to get hurt at this rate of shouldering the scoring load. Surprisingly, one of the best lineups on the floor for the Spurs frontcourt tonight was when Pop put Dice and Bonner on the court together, and they seemed to gel very well, and spread the floor even more, allowing Manu to get some good looks. The Spurs finally put it away in the 4th, going 6-9 from downtown in the final frame to extend the lead and exhaust the wind from Detroit's sails. The Pistons played a grinding style of possession hawking ball that purposely choked the game flow and made it difficult for the Spurs to find any rhythm on offense, and it was only when they started playing harder and moving the ball better that we found open looks and got the lead to double figures.


Overall:

C- effort from our team tonight. I want to see more effort and passion, not this lifeless team who wakes up 34 minutes into the contest and realizes the other team is still playing hard. I really do hope Pop sits Tony for a game, I think it would force our offense to move the ball and rely less on him in the first two quarters of every single game.

Dice
02-09-2011, 10:10 AM
Good take.

I thought all the guys looked tired.

Spursfanfromafar
02-09-2011, 10:12 AM
Take it easy, Cry. Your thoughts come across with a tinge of frustration at some inconsistent play now and then from the Spurs' core players. This won't happen in the playoffs :)

fyatuk
02-09-2011, 10:13 AM
I would have picked Neal for worst player on the court in the first half. He looked lost on both offense and defense to me. He made 1 3pt basket in the first half, but picked up 3 fouls, and played HORRIBLE defense. He just plain got schooled by Stuckey.

He played slightly better in the second half, but he was still hurting the team being out there. He's been playing mostly bad for a while now. Hope he gets out of his funk soon.

ManuTastic
02-09-2011, 10:14 AM
Totally agree on Pop/Splitter comments. WTF Pop??

Cry Havoc
02-09-2011, 10:16 AM
I would have picked Neal for worst player on the court in the first half. He looked lost on both offense and defense to me. He made 1 3pt basket in the first half, but picked up 3 fouls, and played HORRIBLE defense. He just plain got schooled by Stuckey.

2 of those fouls on him were bogus. And yeah, I noted his bad defensive rotations, but Manu was pretty bad on D too, and Neal didn't start 0-6 shooting.


He played slightly better in the second half, but he was still hurting the team being out there. He's been playing mostly bad for a while now. Hope he gets out of his funk soon.

I think Pop is being too hard on him. Neal is a guy that kicks himself for his mistakes, he doesn't need Pop riding him into the ground every time he misses a rotation.

Cane
02-09-2011, 10:23 AM
Gregg Popovich: D. So, on a night when no one is bringing intensity, you decide not to play Tiago, who's coming off his career-best game? Unbelievably poor decision by Pop. I understand saving him for the next game, but he could have made a big difference in the first half. I wonder if Pop knows how badly his coaching affects confidence. Would also liked to see more Neal, considering he was 2-2 from 3.



I think Pop's coaching was fine especially since Duncan played less than 28 mins. Splitter will probably not be a big rotation player now that Bonner's back although Pop could be saving Tiago for the back to back against Toronto tonight. Tiago also got one hell of a thrashing in his career night against the Kings so he might be a little banged up. I'm surprised Neal was able to stay out there for as long as he did considering his foul trouble but at least he's fearless with his 3. Both Neal and Splitter seem like they're more veterans than rookies in attitude so I don't share your thinking that its an "unbelievably poor decision" to limit 'em.

coyotes_geek
02-09-2011, 10:23 AM
Gregg Popovich: D. So, on a night when no one is bringing intensity, you decide not to play Tiago, who's coming off his career-best game? Unbelievably poor decision by Pop. I understand saving him for the next game, but he could have made a big difference in the first half. I wonder if Pop knows how badly his coaching affects confidence. Would also liked to see more Neal, considering he was 2-2 from 3.

A D for Pop for not playing Tiago on a night when Blair, Bonner and Dyess were all playing well seems a bit harsh.

Neal's low minutes were primarily the result of him picking up 3 fouls in his first 4 minutes of the game.

Cane
02-09-2011, 10:25 AM
A D for Pop for not playing Tiago on a night when Blair, Bonner and Dyess were all playing well seems a bit harsh.

Neal's low minutes were primarily the result of him picking up 3 fouls in his first 4 minutes of the game.

Agreed especially since Duncan played less than 28 mins.

Cry Havoc
02-09-2011, 10:30 AM
A D for Pop for not playing Tiago on a night when Blair, Bonner and Dyess were all playing well seems a bit harsh.

Neal's low minutes were primarily the result of him picking up 3 fouls in his first 4 minutes of the game.

Bonner got 13 minutes. Blair was awesome, but Dice did not have a very good game.

Either way, it was a close game for 3 quarters. Why not give Tiago 10 minutes to see if he can make a difference? If he looks bad, just yank him for the rest of the game.

Xevious
02-09-2011, 10:33 AM
Totally agree on Pop/Splitter comments. WTF Pop??
As I've posted in other threads, Tiago is a lost cause at this point. He'll provide some relief during back-to-backs and whatnot, but those expecting him to be a regular contributer the rest of this season are going to be disapointed. He is not going to play a single minute come post-season except for garbage time. It's too late in the season and Pop seems to have his rotations pretty well set. Splitter and James Anderson are the odd men out because of injuries. The most we can hope out of them is a restful summer so they can contribute next year.

Cane
02-09-2011, 10:35 AM
Bonner got 13 minutes. Blair was awesome, but Dice did not have a very good game.

Dice had a pretty decent game. His shot was falling and was grabbing the boards.



Either way, it was a close game for 3 quarters. Why not give Tiago 10 minutes to see if he can make a difference? If he looks bad, just yank him for the rest of the game.

Why not? You answered it yourself: it was a close game. Pop, like most coaches would, stuck with the bigs that have the NBA experience especially those with corporate knowledge. Also unlike most of the other Spurs bigs, Tiago doesn't have a jumper and can't space the floor which makes the Spurs work harder to get their points in a close game. Pop could also be saving Tiago for tonight and/or his role will just be lessened now that Bonner's back.

wildbill2u
02-09-2011, 10:42 AM
Maybe a little hard on Neal's grade since he really only has rookie expectations--and the refs are gonna punish him on certain nights for being a rookie.

coyotes_geek
02-09-2011, 10:46 AM
Bonner got 13 minutes. Blair was awesome, but Dice did not have a very good game.

I'll take 6 & 7 w/ 3-4 shooting in 22 minutes from Dice every night. No doubt he had a few defensive lapses, but overall his contribution on the court was a positive one.

Besides, it was a mini-homecoming for Dice and Pop seems to recognize those moments. George Hill always seems to get extended minutes when the Spurs are in Indiana for example. I don't have a problem with Dice getting a few extra minutes in this one.


Either way, it was a close game for 3 quarters. Why not give Tiago 10 minutes to see if he can make a difference? If he looks bad, just yank him for the rest of the game.

Sure, Pop could have done that. But him deciding not to hardly merits a D-grade.

Cry Havoc
02-09-2011, 10:51 AM
Sure, Pop could have done that. But him deciding not to hardly merits a D-grade.

And if the Spurs don't catch fire from 3 in the 4th, it might have cost us a game.

Supreme_Being
02-09-2011, 10:52 AM
Nice write up. Well done.

Cry Havoc
02-09-2011, 10:53 AM
And it wasn't just sitting Tiago that got Pop a D. The team played lazy and let Detroit stay in it until very late.

tuncaboylu
02-09-2011, 10:54 AM
I don't blame Pop for not giving 10 minutes to Splitter against Detroit, because he will play against Toronto tonight. But I blame Pop for playing him for 45 seconds. This kind of moves decreases the stats of Splitter, I would prefer him DNP instead of 45 seconds

coyotes_geek
02-09-2011, 10:54 AM
And if the Spurs don't catch fire from 3 in the 4th, it might have cost us a game.

And if he played Tiago, Tiago might have sucked and that too could have cost us the game.

Cane
02-09-2011, 10:55 AM
And if the Spurs don't catch fire from 3 in the 4th, it might have cost us a game.

Not likely.


And it wasn't just sitting Tiago that got Pop a D. The team played lazy and let Detroit stay in it until very late.

D's still too low of a grade tbh

Mr. Body
02-09-2011, 11:04 AM
It's a long season and teams are allowed to space out against below average teams, but hopefully it doesn't bite them in the ass and make them regret it. It'd be nice to finish these games up earlier. And to see Splitter.

coyotes_geek
02-09-2011, 11:05 AM
And it wasn't just sitting Tiago that got Pop a D. The team played lazy and let Detroit stay in it until very late.

Meh. I put that more on the players than the coach. This is the NBA, not high school. The players are getting paid millions of dollars to be motivated, it's their job to be up for the game.

Cry Havoc
02-09-2011, 11:20 AM
You guys have a point. Grade changed to a C.

Old School 44
02-09-2011, 12:03 PM
Nice write up. Bonner was great. Much has been written about him spacing the floor, primarily for the slashing of Manu and TP and the inside play of TD, but he also spaces the floor for other three point shooters, particularly Gary Neal. Over the next few games, I wouldn't be surprised to see a big up tick in three pointers made.

BRs.Ganso
02-09-2011, 12:23 PM
i don't blame pop for not giving 10 minutes to splitter against detroit, because he will play against toronto tonight. But i blame pop for playing him for 45 seconds. This kind of moves decreases the stats of splitter, i would prefer him dnp instead of 45 seconds

+1

Mugen
02-09-2011, 12:40 PM
shhhh Havoc, don't bring up Tiago.

now that Bon Bon is back, the pop fanboys can finally put Tiago's good game behind them.

funny how they cream their pants because Bon put up 10 against the pistons, but tiago puts up a near double double and they get all butthurt.

awktalk
02-09-2011, 01:10 PM
Nice write up CH.

I don't really understand all the surprise about minute distribution. Pop's job in the regular season, at least as he sees it, is to solidify and oil the rotation in preparation for the postseason. It is not to develop players, especially after you're 50+ games in and contending. Splitter, as a rookie, got left behind due to injury and is now the 5th big. That is unlikely to change this season. Pop even said before this game that the rotation is pretty much set. Yet after every game, especially a road win against a team that's played pretty well the past month, all this board can do is complain about Splitter's minutes/confidence/stats/next game. It's sad really, for a team that is 43-8, to have a fan base that is so single-issue oriented. Savor the wins!

Cry Havoc
02-09-2011, 01:28 PM
Nice write up CH.

I don't really understand all the surprise about minute distribution. Pop's job in the regular season, at least as he sees it, is to solidify and oil the rotation in preparation for the postseason. It is not to develop players, especially after you're 50+ games in and contending. Splitter, as a rookie, got left behind due to injury and is now the 5th big. That is unlikely to change this season. Pop even said before this game that the rotation is pretty much set. Yet after every game, especially a road win against a team that's played pretty well the past month, all this board can do is complain about Splitter's minutes/confidence/stats/next game. It's sad really, for a team that is 43-8, to have a fan base that is so single-issue oriented. Savor the wins!

My contention is that if Splitter gives us the best chance to win a game, it's potentially another game we could rest our starters down the stretch. Say we reel off another 17 in a row to get to 60-8 (not going to happen, but bear with me). Wouldn't that be great to be able to rest our starters for 10 games and then have them play the few final games of the season to get them back in playoff form?

If we want the 1 seed, we should take every opportunity to get it, because losing a game here and there might mean we have to play our starters for 80 games out of the season to lock it up, furthering fatigue and chances of injury. That doesn't make sense to me. If Splitter gives us energy that no one else is giving, why not play him? Isn't that why he's on the team? Those guys didn't even look like they wanted to be on the court last night for about 36 minutes of play. Leaving them out there does nothing for our rotations, IMO, because they aren't playing well enough to be developing.

awktalk
02-09-2011, 02:32 PM
My contention is that if Splitter gives us the best chance to win a game, it's potentially another game we could rest our starters down the stretch. Say we reel off another 17 in a row to get to 60-8 (not going to happen, but bear with me). Wouldn't that be great to be able to rest our starters for 10 games and then have them play the few final games of the season to get them back in playoff form?

If we want the 1 seed, we should take every opportunity to get it, because losing a game here and there might mean we have to play our starters for 80 games out of the season to lock it up, furthering fatigue and chances of injury. That doesn't make sense to me. If Splitter gives us energy that no one else is giving, why not play him? Isn't that why he's on the team? Those guys didn't even look like they wanted to be on the court last night for about 36 minutes of play. Leaving them out there does nothing for our rotations, IMO, because they aren't playing well enough to be developing.

I see your point, but it is also predicated on Splitter giving us a better chance to win. And I know he came off his best game of the season (albeit against a poor Kings team missing their starting center) so people wanted to see if it was his "break out" game. But I trust the coaching staff to know what combination of minutes and matchups give us the best chance to win, and obviously they view Splitter as situational at best right now. If TD was having to play 35+ a game that'd be one thing. But no big played more than 30 minutes last night: TD 27, Blair 29, McD 21, and Bonner only 13.

I also wouldn't say the first 36 minutes were that atrocious or lacked energy. We were on the road after a 4 day layoff, some rust is to be expected. The first half was fairly lackluster, but we took a lead into the half. The defensive intensity and execution was there for the first 10 minutes of the 3rd quarter (8 points). There was some sloppy play by Hill/Neal the last two minutes where Bynum scored 7 straight to tie it. Those two then made up for their lapses by closing the quarter with a Neal 3 and Hill slash to the hoop.

ChumpDumper
02-09-2011, 02:34 PM
Spurs would have won if Splitter had played. :pctoss

Mugen
02-09-2011, 02:56 PM
Spurs would have won by 12 if Splitter had played. :pctoss

FIFY

i'm glad Bonner is back, really am. And he played very well for his first game back. It's obvious that Bonner will be relied on heavily for the rest of the season and that Tiago won't see much playing time.

my gripe is with the people who disparage "Splinter" because of their love for all things Popovich. "Splitter isn't getting any burn so he must suck! Trust Pop! 43-8!"

there have been numerous instances where playing Splitter 5-10 mins in a game would have benefited the team or been an ideal situation for Tiago but Pop refused to do so based on lack of trust or some other reason that only Pop can fathom.

Pop has been doing a great overall coaching job this year as evidenced by our record. But i feel like he gave up on Tiago too early this year. There's still a good amount of regular season games left and it'd be nice to have a 6'11" post defender to throw out in the playoffs in case one of our bigs (gulp) doesn't perform quite as well as he did in the regular season.

whatever though, 43-8.

awktalk
02-09-2011, 03:17 PM
there have been numerous instances where playing Splitter 5-10 mins in a game would have benefited the team or been an ideal situation for Tiago but Pop refused to do so based on lack of trust or some other reason that only Pop can fathom.


But Pop does do this: see both Lakers games and the last GSW, DAL, and DEN games for example. It's matchup and unit driven, not "oh I think I'll randomly insert Splitter in the game for 5 minutes and see what happens". How many other teams regularly play a 5-big rotation? I just don't see where those 10 minutes are supposed to come from when our starters are playing under 30, Dice out there for 22, and Bonner only logging 13. Put Blair at the 3? Limit TD to 17 instead of 27?

Cry Havoc
02-09-2011, 04:02 PM
FIFY

i'm glad Bonner is back, really am. And he played very well for his first game back. It's obvious that Bonner will be relied on heavily for the rest of the season and that Tiago won't see much playing time.

my gripe is with the people who disparage "Splinter" because of their love for all things Popovich. "Splitter isn't getting any burn so he must suck! Trust Pop! 43-8!"

there have been numerous instances where playing Splitter 5-10 mins in a game would have benefited the team or been an ideal situation for Tiago but Pop refused to do so based on lack of trust or some other reason that only Pop can fathom.

Pop has been doing a great overall coaching job this year as evidenced by our record. But i feel like he gave up on Tiago too early this year. There's still a good amount of regular season games left and it'd be nice to have a 6'11" post defender to throw out in the playoffs in case one of our bigs (gulp) doesn't perform quite as well as he did in the regular season.

whatever though, 43-8.


But Pop does do this: see both Lakers games and the last GSW, DAL, and DEN games for example. It's matchup and unit driven, not "oh I think I'll randomly insert Splitter in the game for 5 minutes and see what happens". How many other teams regularly play a 5-big rotation? I just don't see where those 10 minutes are supposed to come from when our starters are playing under 30, Dice out there for 22, and Bonner only logging 13. Put Blair at the 3? Limit TD to 17 instead of 27?

And what happens if we're playing Game 4 against the Lakers in the WCF and one (or two) of our bigs get in foul trouble? Come on, think about the officiating in LA. Wouldn't it be nice to have a guy who's at least got a few minutes against good teams on him? Or are we resigned to going to small ball as soon as Blair gets his third bullshit foul against the Lakers special brand of officiating? Tiago comes in, holds his own, we only give up maybe a few points to the Lakers, instead of being crunched into small ball and the Lakers slowing the game down and taking 2 offensive rebounds per possession.

Mugen
02-09-2011, 04:34 PM
But Pop does do this: see both Lakers games and the last GSW, DAL, and DEN games for example. It's matchup and unit driven, not "oh I think I'll randomly insert Splitter in the game for 5 minutes and see what happens". How many other teams regularly play a 5-big rotation? I just don't see where those 10 minutes are supposed to come from when our starters are playing under 30, Dice out there for 22, and Bonner only logging 13. Put Blair at the 3? Limit TD to 17 instead of 27?

a 5 big rotation won't work and i understand Splitter is the odd man out.

but for a lot of the games Bonner was out, Pop went with a 3 big rotation risking fatigue/injury on TD/Blair/Dice, guys who all have had knee issues in the past. Pops only went to Splitter when he was forced to.

Bonner is the definition of a "matchup and unit driven/situational role player" yet Pop sticks with him even when his shot is off and his opponent is scoring at will on him. More times this season it's paid off, but it always hasnt in the past.

i hope Splitter will be afforded the same type of trust in the future, if he earns it. til then, people will still complain that Tiago should be getting more minutes.

im happy that the season has gone so well so far that my biggest complaint has been Pop not giving enough minutes to our 10th man. it's a nice problem to have.

temujin
02-09-2011, 06:31 PM
Manu a C-?

Manu Ginobili either scored or passed on every basket or FTs (TD) the Spurs had from 7' to go, until it was over.

Never bother sweating the small (first half) stuff.

temujin
02-09-2011, 06:33 PM
And yes, if Splitter can't get any minutes against Detroit after a couple of solid games, there is definitely a problem.

Cant_Be_Faded
02-09-2011, 07:37 PM
if people think the Spurs looked tired last night.....i am not looking forward to see what the energy level is like tonight.

If Tiago does not get some good burn, god help us all

kuato
02-09-2011, 10:44 PM
Manu is in preservation mode, he will fire up in playoffs

TDMVPDPOY
02-09-2011, 11:08 PM
Gregg Popovich: C. So, on a night when no one is bringing intensity, you decide not to play Tiago, who's coming off his career-best game? Unbelievably poor decision by Pop. I understand saving him for the next game, but he could have made a big difference in the first half. I wonder if Pop knows how badly his coaching affects confidence. Would also liked to see more Neal, considering he was 2-2 from 3.


couldve use splitters size in this game, pistons have no one who can defend him and his size down low on defense wouldve help....just look at his next game at the raptors, he was clearly settling in given the minutes and outplayin whoever was on the court....