And another thing, AHF

[GSH]

I'm Calling You Out Pop:

Parker fucked up half of our possessions in the third, and you leave him in, sub Manu out (who actually hit a three).

You watch Phoenix go on a 10-0 run without even thinking about a timeout.

And you do it all with your hands in your pockets.

Come on Pop, wake up.

During the years that Gregg Popovich has been the coach of the Spurs, the team has the best winning percentage of any team in any professional sport. Get it? The best winning percentage of ANY tem in ANY professional sport.

Is the guy perfect? Obviously not. But your constant railing about how stupid his coaching is, every time the Spurs don't win a game by 30 points is... what's the word? Oh... yeah... ignorant.

The offensive scheme(s) the Spurs run specifically complement their defensive philosophy. And guess what, brainchild? It works. Thus the incredible record.

The other coaches in the league all have tremendous respect for Pop, and for the success he has had. There isn't a single one of them that would second guess him as much as you do - if at all. Why don't you post a copy of your resume, and show us all the accomplishments that qualify you to run down someone with his record?

Dammit! I really hate ignorant, loudmouthed people.

[SPARKY]

Amen.

[1Parker1]

During the years that Gregg Popovich has been the coach of the Spurs, the team has the best winning percentage of any team in any professional sport. Get it? The best winning percentage of ANY tem in ANY professional sport.

Is the guy perfect? Obviously not. But your constant railing about how stupid his coaching is, every time the Spurs don't win a game by 30 points is... what's the word? Oh... yeah... ignorant.

The offensive scheme(s) the Spurs run specifically complement their defensive philosophy. And guess what, brainchild? It works. Thus the incredible record.

The other coaches in the league all have tremendous respect for Pop, and for the success he has had. There isn't a single one of them that would second guess him as much as you do - if at all. Why don't you post a copy of your resume, and show us all the accomplishments that qualify you to run down someone with his record?

Dammit! I really hate ignorant, loudmouthed people.


You're wasting your breath, GSH. :)

[Rick Von Braun]

During the years that Gregg Popovich has been the coach of the Spurs, the team has the best winning percentage of any team in any professional sport. Get it? The best winning percentage of ANY tem in ANY professional sport.

Is the guy perfect? Obviously not. But your constant railing about how stupid his coaching is, every time the Spurs don't win a game by 30 points is... what's the word? Oh... yeah... ignorant.

The offensive scheme(s) the Spurs run specifically complement their defensive philosophy. And guess what, brainchild? It works. Thus the incredible record.

The other coaches in the league all have tremendous respect for Pop, and for the success he has had. There isn't a single one of them that would second guess him as much as you do - if at all. Why don't you post a copy of your resume, and show us all the accomplishments that qualify you to run down someone with his record?

Dammit! I really hate ignorant, loudmouthed people. So, what is your point? No one can call out the coach when it makes a gross mistake. You are not presenting a counterargument to AHF's point, you are just simply bashing him for being overly critical of Pop.

If we have to present a CV before posting, this board would be empty. This is a discussion board, if you have a problem with his opinion, make an argument against it.

[hendrix]

So, what is your point? No one can call out the coach when it makes a gross mistake. You are not presenting a counterargument to AHF's point, you are just simply bashing him for being overly critical of Pop.

If we have to present a CV before posting, this board would be empty. This is a discussion board, if you have a problem with his opinion, make an argument against it.

Agreed. Make your points, debate, discuss, whatever... This is just a fans forum, nothing said here will make some professional coach change his mind. It's not even read by them (I assume) nor they care about it.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Damn, I guess I hit a nerve. :lol


During the years that Gregg Popovich has been the coach of the Spurs, the team has the best winning percentage of any team in any professional sport. Get it? The best winning percentage of ANY tem in ANY professional sport.

I care about regular season winning percentage about as much as I care about seeing Kobe ever do well in the NBA again, which is to say pretty much nothing.

I care about one thing, and one thing only - championships. Did you ever see The Rock? Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and fuck the prom queen.

I've grown up all my life watching the Spurs talking about doing their best. Screw that, especially when you've got Tim Duncan out there.

Here's the thing...

It's not ALL Pop's fault. I know that. I choose to be critical of him because while he is a great defensive coach (easily the best in the NBA in my opinion), his offensive prowess leaves a lot to be desired, particularly creativity in play calling at the offensive end.

For all his regular season wins, we've been flat out embarrassed three times in the last 5 years by the Lakers because all it took was one Phil Jackson defensive adjustment and our offense all of a sudden looked like it was a cinder block trying to run in quick sand.

And Pop could never adjust, we just got our heads kicked in for the rest of the series and went about setting up our tee times.

Pop's done a lot this post-season to change my opinion, particularly giving Manu the ball in crunch time and letting him carry us.

That said, he is still prone to the occassional brain fart personnel wise like last night while Tony Parker single handedly flopped the game in Phoenix's favor in the third while Pop made sure to sit Manu idly on the bench, all while Phoenix produced a 16 point swing.

So yeah, there was some criticism earned and deserved there.

As for me always singling out Pop, answer me this..

Smug assholes like you always want to try and call me out on his offensive stubborness and look like you're a bad ass, but you come off looking like nothing but a hypocrite.

Why? Because when the team wins, you're the first to show up and say "hey AHF, why aren't you giving Pop his props now?"

But when we lose, you're the first to call me out for criticizing the man. The only thing consistent about your takes is your inconsistency.

Spurs do good, GSH and others say: "Pop's great, it was all Pop's doing, recognize his greatness."

Spurs lose, I see: "who the hell are you to cricize Pop? It was all on the players. Fuck you, you're stupid, ignorant, blah blah freakin' blah."

Well, you can't have it both ways, GSH. If Pop deserves all the credit when we win, he deserves it all when we lose. Similarly, if all the blame is on the players when we lose (as you like to advocate), then all the praise should go their way when we win, not Pop's.

So get over yourself, knock off the condescending bullshit posts, and look in the fucking mirror, because you come off as one of the biggest hypocrites on this site.

Ignorant? Loudmouthed? Pot, meet kettle. Hell, you've started 86 thread in the last 14 hours all over Amare's clean block attempt. All the commentators say it was clean, I don't see David Stern holding a press conference to say the call was wrong, and the majority of people on this site who have shown any mental capacity whatsoever acknowledge it's a clean block.

Have a nice day. :spin

[whottt]

Um Aggie...Tim Duncan was the major reason the Spurs lost last night. So your argument about their best not being good enough on a team with Duncan is contradictory...Duncan was the main one not at his best last night. How can you say otherwise? He was short on shots, he missed 9 FT's...he got the ball stuffed back in his face on the losing play...on a point blank dunk attempt...I'm still trying to figure out why you think we would have been better off with a struggling rookie instead of Parker.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Beno Udrih: 13 minutes, 4-9 FGs, 9 points, 2 assists, 1 rebound, 1 steal, 1 block, 1 turnover.

Tony Parker: 35 minutes, 5-17 FGs, 5 assists, 6 turnovers, 2 steals, 1 block.

Beno was also playing solid D when in last night. Sorry Whott, Beno looked good last night, and should have gotten more run.

My point about Duncan remains the same. I expect to win the title every year with the best player in the game on the Spurs.

Duncan sucked last night. So did Tony. So did Pop. My frustration with Pop is that even when either one of those two or both are sucking, he keeps trying to ride them.

I'm not saying bench Tim. I'm saying you've got four other people on the floor, it's okay to use them.

Same for Tony. My frustration with Pop last night was Tony missed 6 shots and had 2 turnovers in the third. We went from up 6 to down 10. And in the first 10 minutes of the third quarter (when Phoenix flopped the score like that), Manu (the hot hand) had exactly TWO shots, one of which was a three he stroked from the top of the key.

That's my biggest beef with Pop, always has been. You've got guys who are red hot (last night we had Horry, Bowen, and Manu all shooting very well), and he chooses to keep going back to the guy(s) who are ice cold (last night that was Tony and Tim).

It's just dumb offense, and it's what gets you beat in games you could and should win. The only thing that stopped Manu from scoring 45 and winning the game by himself last night was Pop, and then Tony and Tim's bad shooting nights wouldn't have even mattered and we'd be getting ready for the Finals.

Instead you give a team that thought it was done and couldn't win against you, a team that thrives on rhythm, emotion, and energy, life. We opened up pandora's box last night, and at this point I just hope it doesn't bite us in the ass.

[FromWayDowntown]

Um Aggie...Tim Duncan was the major reason the Spurs lost last night. So your argument about their best not being good enough on a team with Duncan is contradictory...Duncan was the main one not at his best last night. How can you say otherwise? He was short on shots, he missed 9 FT's...he got the ball stuffed back in his face on the losing play...on a point blank dunk attempt...I'm still trying to figure out why you think we would have been better off with a struggling rookie instead of Parker.

I would disagree with the idea that Tim Duncan was THE major reason the Spurs lost last night. I certainly agree that Tim Duncan was A major reason for the loss, but the Spurs had far too many other things going on for me to say that Timmy was somehow uniquely responsible, even with all of the points he left on the FT line. The only reason that game was as close as it ended up being was the Spurs offensive rebounding, for which Duncan was at least partially responsible.

I thought it was evident in the opening minutes of the game that the Spurs, as a group, were extremely passive in their approach last night. That's not just Tim; that's the whole gang. Far too many times, the Spurs settled for a quick jump shot instead of working the offense and forcing the Suns' defense to work.

In one particular instance that sticks out to me in that 3rd quarter, Manu came flying down after a Suns miss, and rather than working the offense or attacking the rim, he pulled up for some 15 footer at about 18 on the shot clock. After the Suns took the resulting rebound for a score, Pop called timeout and went right at Manu.

That passivity cost the Spurs the game, IMO. They lost patience in trying to do that last night and settled for way too many jumpers, which fed the Suns transition game. Doing that type of stuff is playing D'Antoni's game and it feeds directly into how the Suns beat people -- long jumpers beget long rebounds beget transition opportunities beget open looks and layups beget easy points beget long runs at a frantic pace. The Spurs won the first 3 games of this series by moving the ball, moving the defense, and creating lanes to attack the rim; though not necessarily constrained by the strictures of a dump-a-chump offense. If they want to get Game 5, they have to go back to their patient, but fairly loose approach.

[ducks]

whott barry was also a reason spurs lost last night

[Mr Dio]

It's a BEST-of-7 series. Spurs will win the series.

[beck253]

AHF and RVB, I back you takes up 100%, this is a discussion forum for fans, and I am really tired of the "Pop is a geat coach, can't be criticized" motto.

He does not need to be a bad coach to be aim of the critics, on the contrary, being such a good and smart Head Coach in most aspects of the job, makes more notable the brain farts he has about exactly the same two things over the years: SUBSTITUTION PATTERNS and OFFENSE SELECTION.

And I also think maybe the Spurs, without this issues, could very well have 4 rings instead of 2 by now, so it's not a harmless issue (probably other things should also have been different, besides Pop solving his mistakes, to make this happen, but this was definetely one of them).

This offense selection thing could be a lesser issue for the Spurs, with an AJ type of PG, but TP also has distribution decisions as one of his weaknesses, so the hole gets bigger because of this.
(Somebody needs ASAP to show TP the statsheets: he has shot 20 rocks a game, quite more than Manu and even more than TD, and he's scoring only a dime over 20 points; that's not working...)

[DDS4]

Beno Udrih: 13 minutes, 4-9 FGs, 9 points, 2 assists, 1 rebound, 1 steal, 1 block, 1 turnover.

Tony Parker: 35 minutes, 5-17 FGs, 5 assists, 6 turnovers, 2 steals, 1 block.

Beno was also playing solid D when in last night. Sorry Whott, Beno looked good last night, and should have gotten more run.

My point about Duncan remains the same. I expect to win the title every year with the best player in the game on the Spurs.

Duncan sucked last night. So did Tony. So did Pop. My frustration with Pop is that even when either one of those two or both are sucking, he keeps trying to ride them.

I'm not saying bench Tim. I'm saying you've got four other people on the floor, it's okay to use them.

Same for Tony. My frustration with Pop last night was Tony missed 6 shots and had 2 turnovers in the third. We went from up 6 to down 10. And in the first 10 minutes of the third quarter (when Phoenix flopped the score like that), Manu (the hot hand) had exactly TWO shots, one of which was a three he stroked from the top of the key.

That's my biggest beef with Pop, always has been. You've got guys who are red hot (last night we had Horry, Bowen, and Manu all shooting very well), and he chooses to keep going back to the guy(s) who are ice cold (last night that was Tony and Tim).

It's just dumb offense, and it's what gets you beat in games you could and should win. The only thing that stopped Manu from scoring 45 and winning the game by himself last night was Pop, and then Tony and Tim's bad shooting nights wouldn't have even mattered and we'd be getting ready for the Finals.

Instead you give a team that thought it was done and couldn't win against you, a team that thrives on rhythm, emotion, and energy, life. We opened up pandora's box last night, and at this point I just hope it doesn't bite us in the ass.



I think everything boils down to one argument.

Ride out your best players even if they're struggling or go with the more effective substitution that night?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

The thing is they're not mutually exclusive.

Tony shot the ball way too much, should have been looking for teammates. Same for Tim. Tony is still prone to stretches where he thinks he's the only guy who can score the ball for the Spurs, problem is he tries to go 1 on 5 with 4 teammates standing wide open.

The play that epitomized it all for me last night was in the third Tony tried to drive on Phoenix with Joe Johnson and Steve Nash playing a zone on the left side of the court. They were standing all of maybe 4 ft. apart to begin with, and Tony tried to split them. He got stripped and the Suns went down for an easy bucket at the other end.

Problem was if he swung it to the corner he had Bowen wide open for three, and if he would have swung the other way he had Manu keyed up. That's just dumb, and Pop never reigned him in.

A lot of my frustration with Pop is he could have four guys going off, Tim playing bad, and he still thinks he needs to run everything through Tim. That's just dumb.

NOTE: I'm not saying bench Tim, I'm saying when he's sucking offensively you can turn him into the greatest role player in the game - rebounding, playing D, setting screens, etc.

My biggest gripe with Pop over the years is when Tim is struggling he forces it into Duncan even more, when there are other hotter options on the court for the Spurs. That just doesn't make any sense.

[Sense]

If it weren't for pop we wouldn't be where we were or we wouldn't have 2 championships so I think anyone that calls out pop is stupid..im sorry but it's true..

The thing is pop didn't call a timeout when we were in trouble because we never should've been in trouble..

overall pop knows what he's doing and no one should judge him at all.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

The thing is pop didn't call a timeout when we were in trouble because we never should've been in trouble

Wow, that is some great logic. So basically no coach in the history of game should have ever called a timeout, because if the players just did what they were supposed to, they'd never be in trouble?

That's some good stuff. :lol

You know what amazes me? Tim Duncan... great player. Manu Ginobili... great player. Tony Parker... very good player.

Yet people criticize them on this site all the time. What's with the kid gloves for Pop?

[stéphane]

People still didn't figure that if you bitch at Pop after this loss he will call a winning play on the next game :p
Keep bitching it will (again) bring luck to the spurs on this particular point.
Spurs always love to make AHF eat crows.

[T Park]

Yet people criticize them on this site all the time. What's with the kid gloves for Pop?

maybe cause there is only so much pop can do before the players have to perform???


nahhhh.

[Sii]

Why is it spurs win and Pop gets no credit. Spurs lost and the "Im calling out Pop" bullshit threads pop up. Its no secret AHF doesnt like Pop and has called for him to be fired several times. A man who most any expert considers one of the best in the game with 2 titles on his resume

Pop isnt blameless but the constant "Fuck Pop" threads after ANY loss are ignorant

[Kori Ellis]

Pop isnt blameless but the constant "Fuck Pop" threads after ANY loss are ignorant

Agreed.

I don't think there's any loss that AHF thought wasn't on Pop. Pop fucks up sometimes. But sometimes players just get outplayed and lose games.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

maybe cause there is only so much pop can do before the players have to perform???

Tpark, you flip flopper :lol you were calling for Pop's head after game 4 vs. Seattle.

So you're saying Pop should leave guys in who are playing badly, it's not his fault if they continue to play badly and we lose? No one is capable of bringing it every night, not players, not coaches, but in the same vein if a player's off for a night, it's the coach's perogative to play someone else.

I'm just here representing the players, they want equal praise/blame for all. :spin

[T Park]

I'm just here representing the players, they want equal praise/blame for all

Then where are your "Im calling out Tony Parker" threads.



you were calling for Pop's head after game 4 vs. Seattle

and if they lose game 5 I will be again.


If Glenn Robinson had been with the team the whole time this series

iw ouldve loved to see

Duncan
Horry
Bowen
Ginobili
Robinson


He couldve prevented Joe Johnson from getting off early, but at least having a bigger man in his face opposite of Tony Parker.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Then where are your "Im calling out Tony Parker" threads.

The main thread that the asshat up above (GSH) is calling me out about was titled "Why We Lost: Pop, Parker, and FT shooting" (which is implicity tied to Tim).

2/3 of the blame I assessed last night was directed at players, but that's lost on you and others because I uttered the word "Pop."

[SouthernFried]

Actually, AH has some pretty good takes on Pop. How many times have we all cringed at our inability to finish games strong? Why is that?

Since Pop has been letting Manu have the ball in crucial end-of-game scenarios, things have looked a lot better. But, man...it sure took him long enuf to do it. But, I give him props for making that move. I wonder how much of that is due to Carlisimo?

And I've always said Pops substitution patterns suck...but, they are getting better as of late too. Riding Parker last night when Beno was doing a much better job tho, was just wrong.

I will give Pop a lotta credit...on his player moves, like getting Ginobili...and his Defensive sets. But, he does need work on his offensive philosophy and substitution patterns.

He's gone a long way, and had great success focusing on Defense and getting the right players...no doubt about it. How much further we could go with better offense and substitution patterns is up for debate.