Would you trade TP for Deron?

[spursbird]

Well I know this won't happen, but let's just discuss. Now that Jazz is in rebuilding mode and is willing to trade their all star who can average 21 pts and 9 assists, would you trade TP for him? Deron is not as quick as TP, but his shooting ability and passing is an advantage over TP.
What do you think? Discuss.:toast

[mabrignani]

only in the video game

[DJ Mbenga]

even erin barry would say yes

[Obstructed_View]

Fabbs would, just so DWill could run Pop out of town. I'm sure the Spurs would welcome a guy who refuses to run what the coach tells him to.

[Greg Oden]

If spurfan wouldn't trade Dick for Melo, why would they say yes to trading a far inferior player for Deron?

[spurs10]

Are you insane? What, seriously, has D- Will ever done? Tony Parker is a champion and a badass motherfucker period!!!

[lefty]

No

TP has is familar with the system and playing with Timmy and Manu

And considering we are rolling, why would one mess the whole thing up ?

[spursbird]

Are you insane? What, seriously, has D- Will ever done? Tony Parker is a champion and a badass motherfucker period!!!
You cannot just compare two players by what they have done because basketball is a sport of 5. James hasn't win a title, and does that mean Artest>James?

[DJB]

Yes.

[DJB]

In a heartbeat.

[8FOR!3]

I honestly don't know. Deron Williams is a little better for sure, but doesn't have Parker's intangibles. But the team chemistry is something that I would hate to alter for the difference between both of the players talent.

[Brutalis]

Deron has a piss poor attitude and a "me" attitude. No thanks.

[TDMVPDPOY]

this system we have now would suit dwill, but our fast break points will take beating though since dwill is slowbro upcourt

[SnakeBoy]

I'm pretty sure Deron's attitude would get him permanently parked on the bench. No way he would be able to make Pop his bitch.

[blizz]

No.

[LakerHater]

Yes & No.

Yes- D. Will, I think is better!

No- its gonna take awhile to learn the system! It'll upset fans jus like RJ early on.

[PM5K]

Maybe single ply, but no way I'd give up double ply for him.

[FilSpursFan]

No way! NEVER!

[will_spurs]

In a way the sad story is that Parker has played all his career in SA in a system that is not allowing him to pad his stats like other PGs in the league. But this system allows him to win championships and Finals MVP, so I guess stats come second to that.

In short in this trade the Spurs would get a player of comparable quality (even marginally better if you like) with a punk attitude. Thanks but no thanks.

[anakha]

Now that Jazz is in rebuilding mode and is willing to trade their all star

Considering the Jazz essentially chose the player over the coach here, I doubt this is happening anytime soon.

[Man In Black]

Why is it someone posts stats for a player on 1 team, when they should know, that there is no way in hell, that particular player is going to achieve those same stats on THIS team unless there is a serious change in team philosophy?

3 titles with Parker at PG and he knows the most complicated playbook in the NBA too.
So I say...FUCK NO!

[chazley]

Anyone who wouldn't trade Deron Williams for TP is seriously dumb and their opinions should no longer count whenever they post.

He is arguably the best PG in the league. Tony isn't even top 5.

[LkrFan]

Deron has a piss poor attitude and a "me" attitude. No thanks.
Oh yeah, TP is a saint. :rolleyes

Anybody not willing to trade 28 year old TP for 26 year old DWill is seriously tripping.

[Doctor J]

If Deron does the same thing he did to J. Sloan to Pop, he will die.

I don't want that happen in the City of San Antonio.

[OrEmuN]

If it is at the end of this season, for sure, lets do it. Deron is arguably the top PG now. Parker at best, is only top 5 player.

However, this is not a video game. I am not too sure if we should screwing up our chemistry and risk our chances of the Fifth ring if the trade occurs now.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Whats the point of a trade in a position that is covered for years in the future?

[silverblk mystix]

Anyone who wouldn't trade Deron Williams for TP is seriously dumb and their opinions should no longer count whenever they post.

He is arguably the best PG in the league. Tony isn't even top 5.


FUCK NO.

Fuck D Williams....never won a title...never will...

there is something to be said for being a champion...TP knows what it takes--Williams never will...

You are pretty fuckin' stupid and should kill yourself ....right now.

[Pauleta14]

No

[Gagnrath]

During the off season before this year I would have said yes in a heartbeat. Now that it looks like Williams has turned into an prima donna with a disresoectful attitude toward the coach that goes as far as not running called plays no and hell no pop won't fire pop, pop won't play a guy with that attitude, manu and hill can't play that much point guard, and quinn isn't good enough.

[spursbird]

Maybe I shouldn't post it here... TP is one of the most underrated guy in the league, but right now I think he is not better than Deron Williams. You can say that Deron may mess up the chemistry, but you can't imply he won't get a championship. You have no clues. Don't forget Deron doesn't just bring stats, he bring WINs. In recent years the jazz never miss the playoffs. Even this year without Boozer, they're still top 8 in the west.

[romain.star]

FUCK NO.

Fuck D Williams....never won a title...never will...

there is something to be said for being a champion...TP knows what it takes--Williams never will...

You are pretty fuckin' stupid and should kill yourself ....right now.

That's impressive nostradamus !

Oh and can you tell me who will be the 2018 MVP?

[carina_gino20]

No. Tony keeps everything copacetic.

[xmas1997]

Just another in a long line of stupid rumors!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Where did this come from anyway?????????????

[Spurologist]

N
o

[ChuckD]

It's not a matter of talent. Of course DWill is talented. It's a matter of fit. If he won't run the coach's called plays, he has no place here. It's really just that simple. He can't be a Spur.

[Cry Havoc]

Deron is a franchise player.

If you EVER get the chance to acquire a franchise player, you take it. Very few exceptions.

Parker is an amazing player, but Deron is a top 5 MVP candidate this year. He's carried the Jazz single-handedly so far this season.

[FTLSpur]

http://foobooz.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/noooooo-258x200.jpg

[jimo2305]

it goes both ways..

i wouldn't pull the trigger on the trade this season because of the way things are going.. i don't want to disrupt team chemistry

also wouldn't want to have a dallas-native play for a dallas rival lol..

but if we were doing worse and we had the opportunity to swap players.. i'd do it as long as deron doesn't bring all that drama / garbage.. the whole rift with sloan isn't his character i don't think.. he's a humble guy overall..

[Creation88]

enough with the trade TP shit. just goes to show how underrated and unappreciated he is in this town.

[Cane]

In the offseason, hell yes. At the midway point in the season when the Spurs are making a historic run? Hell no.

This has been a relatively poor season for Dwill as well, even beyond just the Sloan drama. All the other big name PG's seem to have lit him up this season and he's made a lot of bad decisions on the offensive end as well. I also don't see Dwill taking on less money like Parker either.

[tuncaboylu]

Of course I would.

I love Parker, but I could send him for Paul or Deron. That's the 2 guys which I would accept.

[Bambililos]

In a way the sad story is that Parker has played all his career in SA in a system that is not allowing him to pad his stats like other PGs in the league. But this system allows him to win championships and Finals MVP, so I guess stats come second to that.

In short in this trade the Spurs would get a player of comparable quality (even marginally better if you like) with a punk attitude. Thanks but no thanks.
Yep, exactly my thoughts.

[jag]

Williams is a better individual player, but not to the degree that people make it out to be. He's not a franchise player now any more than he was when Boozer was in Utah. He's skilled but he doesn't have the leadership ability to be a franchise player. He's a less-skilled franchise version of Carmelo and Joe Johnson. Franchise players are built around (Duncan, Dirk, Kobe) and alone can keep their team competitive. Guys like Deron are just good pieces you use to build a team.

Stick Tony on the Jazz and tell him to go out and be the offense and he'll put up 25 a game with 7-8 apg. Being the best player on your team doesn't make you a franchise player.

[nkdlunch]

of course. anyone that said no is a retarded homer

[Cry Havoc]

Williams is a better individual player, but not to the degree that people make it out to be. He's not a franchise player now any more than he was when Boozer was in Utah. He's skilled but he doesn't have the leadership ability to be a franchise player. He's a less-skilled franchise version of Carmelo and Joe Johnson. Franchise players are built around (Duncan, Dirk, Kobe) and alone can keep their team competitive. Guys like Deron are just good pieces you use to build a team.

Stick Tony on the Jazz and tell him to go out and be the offense and he'll put up 25 a game with 7-8 apg. Being the best player on your team doesn't make you a franchise player.

:wow

Wow. I have no words for this take, especially the bolded part.

:wow

[buttsR4rebounding]

This is not as cut and dry as it might seem. Parker's stats suffer from being in the Spurs' system. Even so, let's compare:

.................Min..........FG%........3pt%..... .Reb......Asst.....St....TO...Pts
Parker.......32.7.........52.7.........35.7....... .3.0.......6.7......1.3...2.5...17.3
Williams.....37.8.........46.3.........34.8....... .3.8.......9.6......1.2...3.4....21.6

The scoring difference is due to 4 factors. 1. Williams has taken about 50 shots more than Parker and 2. He has taken 250 3pt shots vs. Parker's 42. 3. Williams gets to the line with more frequency shooting 139 more free throws than Parker. This indicates that he has actually taken about 110 more shots than Parker. 4. He plays 5 minutes a game more than Parker.

So this begs the question: Who would you take shots away from in the Spurs system. The Spurs are the #2 3pt shooting team in the league shooting at a 39.5% clip. The Jazz are 22nd shooting 34.3%. Do you want Williams taking 3pt shots away from Bonner, RJ, Neal, or Manu? All of whom shoot a higher % than Williams. In addition, in end of game or end of quarter situations do you take the ball out Manu's hands?

I think it is clear that on the Spurs Williams does not have the ball in his hands as much as he does on the Jazz. This will have an effect of lowering his stats. In addition, if you adjust the stats for time played they look even closer now:

...............Points.........Asst.........Reb.... ....Steals
Parker.......19.05..........7.4..........3.3...... ...1.4
Williams.....20.57..........9.1..........3.6...... ...1.1

If you adjust for having the ball in Manu's hands much more often than any other Jazz player currently does and the risk of upsetting chemisty seems like an unreasonable risk.

[jag]

:wow

Wow. I have no words for this take, especially the bolded part.

:wow

lol Joe Johnson was a bit of a stretch

[spurs10]

You cannot just compare two players by what they have done because basketball is a sport of 5. James hasn't win a title, and does that mean Artest>James?
Spurbird, it's precisely because we are talking about a team that I wouldn't sacrifice any of our key players for someone who hasn't found success as a team player. Sorry to use the word "insane", I was kidding with you, but I feel Tony Parker is horribly taken for granted. He is the MVP of our 2007 championship. It doesn't get any more important than that.
:lobt::lobt::lobt::lobt: :flag:

[ChuckD]

Deron is a franchise player.

If you EVER get the chance to acquire a franchise player, you take it. Very few exceptions.

Parker is an amazing player, but Deron is a top 5 MVP candidate this year. He's carried the Jazz single-handedly so far this season.

He's not a franchise player, unless you considered Garnett one in Minny. I never did. A franchise player is one that if you surround them with some talent, they can make a deep playoff run, and if you surround them with really good talent, they can ring. There are never really more than 3-4 in the NBA at any time.

[dbestpro]

No, I would not. Williams is a great player and maybe even better than TP, but his actions prove that when the going gets tough he will be a problem.

He will never be the leader that can get the ring. He will have to do a Lebron and ride the coat tails of someone who is a leader to get that ring.

[ChumpDumper]

spurfan is spoiled rotten.

[easy7]

No, I will still like to have Pop as a coach until he wants to retire. :hat

[crc21209]

Deron is a franchise player.

If you EVER get the chance to acquire a franchise player, you take it. Very few exceptions.

Parker is an amazing player, but Deron is a top 5 MVP candidate this year. He's carried the Jazz single-handedly so far this season.

Yeah problem is, he single-handedly ran Jerry Sloan out of Utah also. No thanks. I'll stick with Pop, TD, Manu, & TP as our core....

[Spur_Fanatic]

I'd do it. Sure, I'd miss TP, but I think Deron could mesh with Manu and TD pretty fast.

[balli]

. Now that Jazz is in rebuilding mode and is willing to trade their all star

:lmao

:rolleyes

[spurs10]

Yeah problem is, he single-handedly ran Jerry Sloan out of Utah also. No thanks. I'll stick with Pop, TD, Manu, & TP as our core....
Not sticking with the core at this stage would be....well...pretty nuts. We are very fortunate. I'm guessing Tim wouldn't want to see Tony traded for Williams at this point in this very successful season. Tim is our franchise player. If Deron is Utah's franchise player, then I say good luck with that.
:flag:

[Pauleta14]

I love Deron, but I don't think he'll be able to produce as well as Tony without being the n°1 option...

People (spurs fans include) don't talk enough about the fact that Tony doesn't have the most "comfortable" situation among elite PG, except in 2008, he has never had stats reflecting he true "level" because he shares his playmaking duties and Pop never let his stars "pump up" their stats the way all the other allstars do (this goes for Manu and Timmy too!).

Add the fact that Deron (as all the other "eltie" PGs) would NEVER take less money for the better of the team the way TP did and my answer is definitely ... NO!

[Dex]

http://chzgifs.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/e7c2e782-e686-4454-991c-9cb003920cfc.gif

[Hoops Czar]

:lmao

:rolleyes

Yeah... so funny. They won't dare trade Deron, he's just going to walk out the front door in 2012.

http://www.iamagm.com/news/2011/02/13/deron.williams.asked.be.traded.interested.signing. mavs.clippers.or.knicks.2012


Just as the Jazz was starting to worry about Williams, who is said to be looking at Dallas, the Clippers or Knicks in 2012. Williams had reached the point with Sloan in the past several weeks where he asked to be traded, according to sources. The Jazz wouldn't accommodate him, but did get a laundry list of complaints from its top player, who had grown tired of Sloan's rigid approach to coaching, dependence on veteran players and what Williams considered to be his outdated demands.
As soon as Sloan stepped down and stories of his rocky relationship with Williams started to circulate, Williams took the hit because he hasn't yet compiled a resume to warrant such power, and Sloan had become as much of an institution in Utah as Karl Malone and John Stockton.

[mingus]

Yeah.

TP is a great scoring guard. And that's it pretty much. DWill is that and has the offensive awareness and passing ability of Ginobili (or close to it). Can you imagine a Deron/Ginobili backcourt? The passing would be so good it's crazy to think about.

Know how Dejuan, Splitter, RJ, Dice all benefit tremendously by having Ginobili on the court because he sets them up nicely and runs the pick 'n roll to perfection, but TP can't do that nearly as well? With Deron on the court he'd be making those guys better in the same way that Ginobili does, which means we'd have a playmaker on the court at all times, and two when they are both in the game.

[TDMVPDPOY]

i do this trade just to see the backlash of some parkerfans on this site :D

[Obstructed_View]

If a team on a historic regular-season run ever traded away one of their top players, the entire front office and coaching staff should immediately be shot. Doesn't matter how good Deron Williams is, there's no fucking way he could improve this year's Spurs team.

[barbacoataco]

No true Spurs fan would even consider trading a franchise great mid-season when the team is having one of the best regular seasons ever. Tony Parker is a NBA Finals MVP. He has faced Deron Williams in the playoffs one on one in the past and it was a draw. To act like Williams is so obviously better a player is not supported by the stats or by the outcomes when they have played each other. Parker is an underrated player and history will remember him for the player he is after it is all over. He started playing at a really young age and was the starting PG on a championship team in his second season. He is still young and has already done as much as some HOF'rs.

[sammy]

Fuck No! Why would we want a troublemaker like that who got his coach to leave! :bang

[Budkin]

No way... TP is part of the heart and soul of this team.

[Spursfanfromafar]

TP is a system guy, someone who knows what is required off him in the Spurs system. I used to be one of those guys who wasn't fully convinced about TP in the past, but the more I watch him play, I think he is majorly under-rated. He is a very unique guard who scores in the paint using speed, dribbling skills, fakes and finishing skills. And he tailors his game exactly as his coach wants him. Not many PGs in the game now, who play so much within the system. The only knock on TP is his erratic 3Pt shooting and sometimes faltering defense against some PGs, but overall, he is a Top 5-6 PG in the league.

Deron Williams is indeed a franchise player, no doubt. A superb PG. It makes no sense however to drop TP despite this, because getting a new guard to learn the system is a pain and takes a lot of time. I would have done this if the Spurs were struggling. But the Spurs have the best record in the league. They still have a certain steps to go to become sureshot championship winners, but that is despite stellar guard play - the best in the league overall. They lack a solid SF defender, even as RJ does a very adequate job and an assured athletic shot blocker, even as Duncan is good at his age and experienced. Deron Williams is neither. So..no.

[VBM]

of course. anyone that said no is a retarded homer

What this guy said...

[VBM]

Fuck No! Why would we want a troublemaker like that who got his coach to leave! :bang

Like that guy who threw a towel in his coach's face that one time? What was his name?

http://internetservices.readingeagle.com/blog/zeke/archives/images/horry.jpg

[024]

umm yeah.

[Baseline]

Can't stand Deron Williams. Hugely overrated.

[roycrikside]

No way. Deron Williams is a fucking loser. He blames everybody but himself.

The only PGs I'd trade Tony for would be Rose and Rondo. I'll take Tony over anybody in the West, including CP3.

[mathbzh]

When?
This year? No way

In the post season? Probably not.
A couple of PG are better than Parker. But as the Spurs are built, TP is just the PG they need. I don't think any PG in the league would be a clear upgrade.

Moreover Parker makes significantly less money than D-Will.
I would keep Parker and (try to) spend my money on a big.

[spursbird]

Moreover Parker makes significantly less money than D-Will.
I would keep Parker and (try to) spend my money on a big.
Less money? Yes.
Significantly? LOL
TP 13.65 mil
Deron 14.84 mil
So you would spend your money on a big? Who? With 14.84-13.64=about 1 mil?

[mathbzh]

Less money? Yes.
Significantly? LOL
TP 13.65 mil
Deron 14.84 mil
So you would spend your money on a big? Who? With 14.84-13.64=about 1 mil?

D-Will next two years
$16,359,805
$17,779,457

Parker will make 12.5 I think

Edit:
But your question is legit, I am not sure any good big could be found.
This is why I said I would "probably" not trade for D-Will.

[howbouthemspurs]

Deron is a piece of shit player! He is worthless cause hes not a team player! Tony Parker has everything you want in a point guard! And he listens to his coach! D-Will can go kill himself for all I care.

[Cry Havoc]

:wow

This thread might have some of the worst collective posts I have ever seen on SpursTalk.

Some of you have obviously never even see Deron Williams play a single game in the NBA. It's shocking.

[LoneStarState'sPride]

Deron Williams is a great player--he's a fantastic PG. He's someone you can realistically build a team around.

And my response to this trade would still be FUCK NO.

TP--better in the Spurs' system
massively underrated passer
massively underrated shooter
one-man fastbreak
far better team player

Oh, and in case y'all forgot, Parker's better head to head against D-Will's teams, too. How many times does Parker have to beat fools like Nash, CP3, and D-Will to earn some goddamn respect?

Give me Tony Parker on the Spurs every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

[Obstructed_View]

:wow

This thread might have some of the worst collective posts I have ever seen on SpursTalk.

Some of you have obviously never even see Deron Williams play a single game in the NBA. It's shocking.

Conversely, I guess some people missed the championships, the finals MVP and the 45-9 record.

[Greg Oden]

Right, the Spurs couldn't have won those rings with a vastly superior player like Deron, nor could Deron have won a Finals MVP against one of the worst teams to ever make the Finals.

[Obstructed_View]

If putting up stats without wins = vastly superior then the whole league should be clamoring to trade for Kevin Love.

[Greg Oden]

:lmao because a Kevin Love/Deron Williams comparison makes so much sense :lmao

[DMC]

I would not trade anyone in the starting lineup or a few from the bench for anyone on a losing team.

[Obstructed_View]

By your rationale, four more three point attempts and three assists per game makes one guy vastly superior regardless of past history, defense, wins or championships. Kevin Love = GOAT

[Greg Oden]

Keep trying to twist the argument into your narrow frame of mind, it only makes you or anyone else look retarded by thinking Deron isn't >>> Parker.

[Greg Oden]

By your rationale, four more three point attempts and three assists per game makes one guy vastly superior regardless of past history, defense, wins or championships. Kevin Love = GOAT

Defense? :lmao In case you've never seen a Jazz game, Deron is a better defender than Parker, both individually and within a team concept.

Does it hurt when you try to think?

[barbacoataco]

Defense? :lmao In case you've never seen a Jazz game, Deron is a better defender than Parker, both individually and within a team concept.

Does it hurt when you try to think?

Where is your proof that Williams is so much better than Parker? The stats don't show it and Parker plays on a team that hurts your stats. Also, they've played each other in the playoffs with a lot of one on one play and Deron didn't abuse Parker. In fact it was pretty even. I'm not denying that Williams is better but it's like comparing a A- guy to a B+ guy.

[Obstructed_View]

Defense? :lmao In case you've never seen a Jazz game, Deron is a better defender than Parker, both individually and within a team concept.

Does it hurt when you try to think?

How do you figure? Parker scores above his average when he plays against Williams, and Williams scores below his average when he plays against Parker.

[barbacoataco]

How do you figure? Parker scores above his average when he plays against Williams, and Williams scores below his average when he plays against Parker.

This my point. These guys have played each other a lot head to head and it just isn't the case that Williams outplays Parker.

Parker= 3 time Allstar while Williams is 2 time Allstar.
Their PER scores are very siimilar.
Parker shoots for a higher percentage.
Parker's speed is the main thing that breaks down opponent's defense.

[JR3]

Nope. too much corp knowledge in Parker. Plus he knows Pop is boss.

[ohmwrecker]

Hypothetically? Sure. Williams is a statistically better PG than Parker, but this is basically a fantasy basketball scenario that doesn't apply to the real world.

If you are talking about swapping Parker for Williams right now, it seems like a bad idea to me. The Spurs are, arguably, the best team in the league chemistry wise and the core of the team is completely entrenched in the system with championship pedigree and a united focus on a goal. More importantly, they are winning in an impressive, franchise best fashion with room to improve. Changing a key (possibly, THE key) component in the equation, would be disastrous.
Changing PGs is a move that a team who is in need of a new direction would make, not the Spurs. It doesn't matter how much better Williams is, or isn't over Parker. It's just a bad idea for this particular place in time.

If you are talking fantasy BB, it's a great move.

[m33p0]

it would mean overhauling the spurs' offensive sets (and quite possibly, personnel) since Williams seem to need the ball in his hands a lot. either that or he change his style to fit the system.

[barbacoataco]

Parker's top 3 season's PER- 23.4, 21.4 and 20.8.
Williams " "- 21.2, 20.8, 20.6

Parker's career TS%- .548
Wlliams " "- .563

The idea that Williams is statistically better is not true. He gets more assists but that has a lot to do with the Spurs system. Williams is a better passer, Parker is faster and his offensive #'s are even to Williams. When they have played head to head it has been even. All of this is even without bringing up Parker's success in the playoffs and his hardware. Like I said before, Parker is vastly underrated and when his career is over and people look at his accomplishments he will be remembered better than he is thought of now.

[will_spurs]

How do you figure? Parker scores above his average when he plays against Williams, and Williams scores below his average when he plays against Parker.

Basketball-reference has this nice Head2Head tool that will show us just that:

Parker career: 33pmg, 16.7ppg on 49.3% shooting, 5.7 assists, 3 rbds, 1 steal, 2.5 TOs

Parker vs Deron: 33mpg, 19.9ppg on 54.2% shooting, 5.8 assists, 2.3 rbds, 0.9 steals, 2.9 TOs

Deron career: 35.5mpg, 17.3 ppg on 46.7% shooting, 9.1 assists, 3.2 rbds, 1 steal, 3 TOs

Deron vs Parker: 35.5mpg, 17.9ppg on 47.6% shooting, 7.5 assists, 3.1 rbds, 0.8 steals, 2.8 TOs



So apart from the fact that Parker scores more (and shoots better) and Deron racks up fewer assists... what was supposed to be so obvious in Deron being so much better than Parker?

Source: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=parketo01&p2=willide01

[spurs10]

Basketball-reference has this nice Head2Head tool that will show us just that:

Parker career: 33pmg, 16.7ppg on 49.3% shooting, 5.7 assists, 3 rbds, 1 steal, 2.5 TOs

Parker vs Deron: 33mpg, 19.9ppg on 54.2% shooting, 5.8 assists, 2.3 rbds, 0.9 steals, 2.9 TOs

Deron career: 35.5mpg, 17.3 ppg on 46.7% shooting, 9.1 assists, 3.2 rbds, 1 steal, 3 TOs

Deron vs Parker: 35.5mpg, 17.9ppg on 47.6% shooting, 7.5 assists, 3.1 rbds, 0.8 steals, 2.8 TOs



So apart from the fact that Parker scores more (and shoots better) and Deron racks up fewer assists... what was supposed to be so obvious in Deron being so much better than Parker?

Source: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=parketo01&p2=willide01
:toast

[DPG21920]

Oden got crominated :lol

He doesn't know what to do in a forum with more than 4 active posters tbh.

[Obstructed_View]

People without the confidence to log into their main account instead of their troll account should stick to the NBA forum for debates.

[Greg Oden]

spurfan thinks Parker is better than Deron. That's all that needs to be said.

[Greg Oden]

People without the confidence to log into their main account instead of their troll account should stick to the NBA forum for debates.

people with low enough confidence where they have to masquerade as a cowboy fan instead of claiming their real team shouldn't be posting at all.

is this what goes on upstairs all the time? do spurfans give each other the reach around whilst coming to the conclusion that they wouldn't trade Dick for Melo and TP for Deron?

[barbacoataco]

people with low enough confidence where they have to masquerade as a cowboy fan instead of claiming their real team shouldn't be posting at all.

is this what goes on upstairs all the time? do spurfans give each other the reach around whilst coming to the conclusion that they wouldn't trade Dick for Melo and TP for Deron?

Instead of calling Spurs fans homers, how about making some kind of argument or showing the stats that make Deron so clearly better than Parker.

[Obstructed_View]

people with low enough confidence where they have to masquerade as a cowboy fan instead of claiming their real team shouldn't be posting at all.

What are you talking about, Mono?

[Greg Oden]

Hope Colt McCoy works out for you.

[Obstructed_View]

Hope Colt McCoy works out for you.

Yeah, me too. Would be nice for the Browns to be relevant again. I still wouldn't trade Parker for Williams. Thanks for trying, though.

[Greg Oden]

I still wouldn't trade Parker for Williams.

No shit. Anyone who stumbles across your posts easily pick up that you're a blind homer.

[mathbzh]

people with low enough confidence where they have to masquerade as a cowboy fan instead of claiming their real team shouldn't be posting at all.

is this what goes on upstairs all the time? do spurfans give each other the reach around whilst coming to the conclusion that they wouldn't trade Dick for Melo and TP for Deron?

As far as I am concerned, I don't want Melo in a Spurs uniform. Not for Jefferson, not for Bonner, not now, not ever...
And this as nothing to do with his basketball skills.

For Deron, most Spurs fans acknowledge he is better than Parker.
If you are building a team from scratch you have to go with Deron (actually I don't think paying a guard 17 millions/year is a great idea... but I am nitpicking...).
But when your team is 46-9 and your core is championship proven... you think twice before doing any major move.

[gospursgojas]

Conversely, I guess some people missed the championships, the finals MVP and the 45-9 record.

This.

What has Dwill done? He's had great teams, with great coaching.

[jjktkk]

No shit. Anyone who stumbles across your posts easily pick up that you're a blind homer.

Are you basing this on that Williams looks better naked than Parker in your opinion?

[DrSteffo]

No, he seems like an anti-Spur to me.

[Josepatches_]

TP for Deron?


Where I have to sign?

I'll send Bonner with him.He fits better in Utah.

[fitzgerald]

The Spurs would be unstoppable with Deron. You would add another playmaker with Ginobili. Who would you cover? Parker is good but not that good. Deron can kill you with just his passing. I would quit watching basketball if Deron ended up with the spurs.

[guzmangm]

I wouldn't want to replace a proven piece that is clicking, for what may or may not work.

[VBM]

I wouldn't want to replace a proven piece that is clicking, for what may or may not work.

This is why SA never repeated...

[spurs10]

46-....ah never mind. No one in the Spurs organization is going to try and trade TP right now. Again, other than Tony scoring more points, having a higher shooting %, being faster, a laughably better resume, and proven team chemistry, why is Deron so much better?

[honestfool84]

en oh.

[Greg Oden]

Are you basing this on that Williams looks better naked than Parker in your opinion?

lol quoting all of my posts. keep looking at my sig, that's as close as you're getting to me.

[Obstructed_View]

No shit. Anyone who stumbles across your posts easily pick up that you're a blind homer.

And anyone who sees yours notices that when confronted with reality you start talking about football. :lol

[chazley]

People fail to realize that Deron was restricted in Sloan's system just as much as Parker is restricted in ours.

[Dex]

People fail to realize that Deron was restricted in Sloan's system just as much as Parker is restricted in ours.

People also fail to realize that Deron blames everything around him for failure and managed to run the only coach that had more job security than Pop out of town.

He's not that much more talented than Tony to warrant the baggage, and Parker has been loyal to the Spurs.

So no.

[chazley]

People also fail to realize that Deron blames everything around him for failure and managed to run the only coach that had more job security than Pop out of town.

He's not that much more talented than Tony to warrant the baggage, and Parker has been loyal to the Spurs.

So no.

You sound so knowledgeable about exactly what went down in Utah... you should let the rest of us in on what EXACTLY went down. There's always two sides to every story... and as much as I've heard SPECULATED that Deron 'ran him out of town', I've also heard that Jerry Sloan was a hardass who got butthurt because Deron tried to call his own play, and he simply asked for some changes to the system to keep up with the times. Adrian Wojnarowski (I know I spelled that wrong but you know who I'm talking about) is the best NBA writer in the world in my opinion, and I recommend you check out his article.

[chazley]

Here's the article: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-sloanwilliams021111

[Chillen]

Tony Parker, Splitter for Deron and Raja Bell, works in ESPN trade checker. The Spurs would have to consider, but have reasons to stand pat, great start and Parker is a champion.

[Obstructed_View]

Williams said in an interview that he agrees with Jerry that it must have just been his time to go. Strangely, it must have been time for his assistant coach at exactly the same time. I'm certainly not surprised that chazley's BS detector failed to go off. :lol

[Greg Oden]

And anyone who sees yours notices that when confronted with reality you start talking about football. :lol

Right because you didn't feverishly attempt to accuse me of being other posters beforehand :rollin

[Obstructed_View]

Right because you didn't feverishly attempt to accuse me of being other posters beforehand :rollin

Feverishly? I simply pointed out that you were a pussy for logging in as your troll. Doesn't really matter, since your basketball argument was squashed prior to it.

Hey, did you know I've been a Cowboys fan since I was a little kid but I became a Browns fan when I was in high school, and I actually root for both teams? Maybe you can talk about that some more.

[chazley]

Williams said in an interview that he agrees with Jerry that it must have just been his time to go. Strangely, it must have been time for his assistant coach at exactly the same time. I'm certainly not surprised that chazley's BS detector failed to go off. :lol

Not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me in my discussion with dex...

[portnoy1]

I wouldnt trade Parker for Williams simply for defensive purposes. Point guards today are quicker and I feel Parker would help more defensively (especially the way he has been playing defense this year) than Williams.

And for those who say our system is too complicated for Williams to learn on the fly , Jerry Sloans offensive system makes pops look like a walk in the park.

All in all to be fair. Parker doesnt have the court vision of the so-called top point guards in the league(Paul/Williams/Rondo..etc) he cant setup players the way they can.

On the otherhand,they dont have to share the ballhandling responsibilities like Parker does. Manu has the ball half the time for the first 3 quarters and has it most of the time during the 4th. Paul/Williams and Rondo have the ball 90% of the time their out there so ofcourse they're gonna have 3-4 assist more than Parker.

So if ever any of those guys came in a trade for Tp, the most you can expect from them would be 7 MAYBE 8ast a game. And 8ast is really pushing it, unless manu handles less and takes more 3's than he has this year (doubted).

[chazley]

I wouldnt trade Parker for Williams simply for defensive purposes. Point guards today are quicker and I feel Parker would help more defensively (especially the way he has been playing defense this year) than Williams.

And for those who say our system is too complicated for Williams to learn on the fly , Jerry Sloans offensive system makes pops look like a walk in the park.

All in all to be fair. Parker doesnt have the court vision of the so-called top point guards in the league(Paul/Williams/Rondo..etc) he cant setup players the way they can.

On the otherhand,they dont have to share the ballhandling responsibilities like Parker does. Manu has the ball half the time for the first 3 quarters and has it most of the time during the 4th. Paul/Williams and Rondo have the ball 90% of the time their out there so ofcourse they're gonna have 3-4 assist more than Parker.

So if ever any of those guys came in a trade for Tp, the most you can expect from them would be 7 MAYBE 8ast a game. And 8ast is really pushing it, unless manu handles less and takes more 3's than he has this year (doubted).

Biggest Spurs/Parker myth: We need Tony for his defense against quick PG.
Fact: The Spurs get BURNED by quick PG consistently, and it's Tony playing defense against them a majority of the time.

[portnoy1]

Biggest Spurs/Parker myth: We need Tony for his defense against quick PG.
Fact: The Spurs get BURNED by quick PG consistently, and it's Tony playing defense against them a majority of the time.
So what would happen if the slower deron williams was guarding them?

[wontstartdumbthreads]

Biggest Spurs/Parker myth: We need Tony for his defense against quick PG.
Fact: The Spurs get BURNED by quick PG consistently, and it's Tony playing defense against them a majority of the time.

The biggest Parker myth is that he hasn't peaked. I would jizz if we won the championship this year and then traded him.

[chazley]

So what would happen if the slower deron williams was guarding them?

He wouldn't have to guard them cause opposing coaches wouldn't play quick PG against D-Will if they can avoid it, cause he'll just post them up all day. On top of that, I feel that Deron is only slightly slower than TP at this point in their careers.

[chazley]

The biggest Parker myth is that he hasn't peaked. I would jizz if we won the championship this year and then traded him.

I don't think when people think of Parker they think 'upside'. I think its universally accepted he's in his prime, but it's only breakeven or downhill from here in his current role.

[portnoy1]

He wouldn't have to guard them cause opposing coaches wouldn't play quick PG against D-Will if they can avoid it, cause he'll just post them up all day. On top of that, I feel that Deron is only slightly slower than TP at this point in their careers.
Deron wouldnt be posting up, simply because thats not how the Spurs do things. Remember all that talk about jefferson scoring in transition and posting up when he got here? mainly a spot up 3pt shooter and nothing more since coming here. The Spurs dont integrate you, you adjust to their system regardless of your skill set.

[ohmwrecker]

This is why SA never repeated...

The Spurs never repeated because of injuries for the most part. Trading a key component of the core group doesn't have much to do with it.

[chazley]

Deron wouldnt be posting up, simply because thats not how the Spurs do things. Remember all that talk about jefferson scoring in transition and posting up when he got here? mainly a spot up 3pt shooter and nothing more since coming here. The Spurs dont integrate you, you adjust to their system regardless of your skill set.

No, when you're not a member of the big 3, THEN you adjust to us instead of the other way around. D-Will would immediately become our best player, and we would build around him. You cannot compare him to RJ.

This is all moot anyways cause Utah is not trading Deron anytime soon, but I gotta slap around delusional Spurs fans every once in awhile.

[Mel_13]

He wouldn't have to guard them cause opposing coaches wouldn't play quick PG against D-Will if they can avoid it, cause he'll just post them up all day.

:lol

Go ahead Chaz, provide any evidence that supports this ridiculous assertion.

[Mel_13]

And I'm loving Portnoy1 as a Parker defender...

[VBM]

The Spurs never repeated because of injuries for the most part. Trading a key component of the core group doesn't have much to do with it.

I'll give you that, but it always seemed like the company line following a title was "Let's let these same guys try to defend the title now." There didn't seem to be any urgency in improving the team following a title (with the exception of 2005 when the Michael Finley buyout occurred). 2007 jumps out at me, as the Spurs road to the title was made much easier with Dallas and Detroit getting upset. It would have been nice to have spent some cash to bring in HE WHO SHALL NOT BE NAMED instead of shipping him off and believing that Fabricio Oberto, scrappy as he is, could help lead us to multiple titles.

Trading Malik Rose for Nazr Mohammed in 05 won SA a title...I just think if the Spurs had gambled a few times post-title, they might have had the depth to absorb an injury and repeated.

[mathbzh]

Fact: The Spurs get BURNED by quick PG consistently,

Who?

[chazley]

Who?

JJ Barea(lol), Devin Harris, Beoubois, Nash last year... could think of alot more if I tried.

[ohmwrecker]

I'll give you that, but it always seemed like the company line following a title was "Let's let these same guys try to defend the title now." There didn't seem to be any urgency in improving the team following a title (with the exception of 2005 when the Michael Finley buyout occurred). 2007 jumps out at me, as the Spurs road to the title was made much easier with Dallas and Detroit getting upset. It would have been nice to have spent some cash to bring in HE WHO SHALL NOT BE NAMED instead of shipping him off and believing that Fabricio Oberto, scrappy as he is, could help lead us to multiple titles.

Trading Malik Rose for Nazr Mohammed in 05 won SA a title...I just think if the Spurs had gambled a few times post-title, they might have had the depth to absorb an injury and repeated.

I agree with the notion that the Spurs did not seem to possess a sense of urgency in the post seasons after championships, but I think it's mostly perception. Free agency has never been kind to the Spurs. They got lucky a few times, but San Antonio isn't very alluring to big name FAs for whatever reason. The Spurs have always had to rely on role players who could find their niche in the system and not gum up the works. The Spurs didn't win championships because of the acquisition of guys like Nazr and Fab, but because they fit in the scheme and played their roles.

[mathbzh]

JJ Barea(lol), Devin Harris, Beoubois, Nash last year... could think of alot more if I tried.

This season vs Spurs:
- JJ Barea 6.7 pts (36%) 4 ast/game
- Devin Harris 10 pts (33%) 4 ast
- Nash 18 pts (45%) 8.5 ast
- Beaubois DNP

All bellow their average stats.

Now I agree this is a very small sample. But you can't just isolate one game from Barea or Beaubois (Nash is obviously a different story) and conclude the Spurs get burned by quick PG.

[Cane]

I agree with the notion that the Spurs did not seem to possess a sense of urgency in the post seasons after championships, but I think it's mostly perception. Free agency has never been kind to the Spurs. They got lucky a few times, but San Antonio isn't very alluring to big name FAs for whatever reason. The Spurs have always had to rely on role players who could find their niche in the system and not gum up the works. The Spurs didn't win championships because of the acquisition of guys like Nazr and Fab, but because they fit in the scheme and played their roles.

Yea the Spurs have always been about corporate knowledge and quite a few first-year players have difficulty fitting in, usually they don't play to their potential until their sophomore year in SA. The times the Spurs have gone after FA's they failed like Jason Kidd and even Rasheed Wallace (thankfully)