Norwegian healthcare system

[George Gervin's Afro]

As I am sitting in the waiting room to see my doctor I noticed a lady with a 3 yr old little girl. I have not yet brought my 8 yr old to this place because I feel more comfortable taking him to his pediatrician so I asked the lady if she felt this gp took care of her child, as opposed to a pediatrician. She must not have understood my question because her first response was that she was from norway and that her children received better health care there than here.

Should I have started to sing the national anthem and then told her to get the hell out of my country?

[TeyshaBlue]

Should I have started to sing the national anthem and then told her to get the hell out of my country?

:lol

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Ask for papers first, but if her kids were a darker shade than her, you should start whistling Dixie immediately.

[boutons_deux]

The "specialist" scam is central to what's wrong with UCA doctoring.

Most of the specialists won't take patients who don't first get a referral, after a useless, make-work visit for $150 to a primary care doctor/referrer.

The huge gap in generalist vs specialist incomes has caused a huge, disastrous deficit of generalist doctors.

UCAers who haven't lived in other advanced countries simply don't know how other countries have organized their societies better FOR EVERYONE at all levels. Americans childishly keep believing American myths which are realistic as the tooth fairy and Santa Claus. You've Gotta Be Asleep To Believe The American Dream.

[Wild Cobra]

Their mean income tax rate is about 30% higher than the US, and corporate tax rates only about 75% of what ours are.

[boutons_deux]

Whatever their tax rates compared to UCA is irrelevant.

How a society organizes itself, ideally "greatest good for the greatest number", where good is security of various kinds, dignity, and physical comfort.

The UCA has been perverted by the VRWC into "the greatest good for the fewest number", and that fewest number oligarchs/plutocrats is basically a closed, inherited club.

Scandanvian countries or USA? Which has better reason to "go Egypt" on their establishments?

[Wild Cobra]

Whatever their tax rates compared to UCA is irrelevant.

How a society organizes itself, ideally "greatest good for the greatest number", where good is security of various kinds, dignity, and physical comfort.

The UCA has been perverted by the VRWC into "the greatest good for the fewest number", and that fewest number oligarchs/plutocrats is basically a closed, inherited club.

Scandanvian countries or USA? Which has better reason to "go Egypt" on their establishments?
Why don't you move there is you think it's better then.

[clambake]

why does the guy raised on welfare continue to tell others to leave the country?

[boutons_deux]

I don't THINK it's better in other advanced countries, I KNOW it's better.

[TeyshaBlue]

I don't know about better, boutons. More effective? Yeah.

[Wild Cobra]

why does the guy raised on welfare continue to tell others to leave the country?
Why are you such a lair?

I was not raised on welfare.

[TeyshaBlue]

Why are you such a lair?

I was not raised on welfare.

Fuckin' lairs!:lol

[RandomGuy]

Norway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway)
Population: 5,000,000
Sovereign Wealth Fund (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_wealth_fund) assets: $443,000,000,000

443,000,000,000/5,000,000 = $88,600 @


They took their oil/gas royalties from their considerable coastline (North Sea oil and gas) and pooled it into a very conservatively managed investment fund.

They use a certain amount of interest from this pool to partially fund their government, and provide silly socialist things like parental leave, free college, and national health care.

Gimmie that socialism any day.

[RandomGuy]

In 2010, Norway was also rated the fifth most peaceful country in the world in a 2010 survey by Global Peace Index,[16] and the world's most democratic country according to the Democracy Index.[17]

Norway is a unitary parliamentary democracy and constitutional monarchy, with King Harald V as its head of state and Jens Stoltenberg as its prime minister. It is a unitary state with administrative subdivisions on two levels known as counties (fylker) and municipalities (kommuner). The Sámi people have a certain amount of self-determination and influence over traditional territories through the Sámi Parliament and the Finnmark Act. Although having rejected European Union membership in two referendums, Norway maintains close ties with the union and its member countries, as well as with the United States. Norway remains one of the biggest financial contributors to the United Nations,[18] and participates with UN forces in international missions, notably in Afghanistan, Kosovo, and Sudan. Norway is a founding member of the United Nations, NATO, the Council of Europe, and the Nordic Council, and is a member of the European Economic Area, the WTO, and the OECD.

[boutons_deux]

The Dutch did a similar thing when they were pumping a lot more gas out of the North Sea.

Both countries took their gift of a common-good, natural resource wealth and distributed its benefits to the general populace. Dutch and Norwegian resource extractors have also done very well.

[RandomGuy]

Why don't you move there is you think it's better then.

I have actually started looking into it.

[LnGrrrR]

Fuckin' lairs!:lol

I truly lol'd at that, as I was thinking the same thing.

[LnGrrrR]

They use a certain amount of interest from this pool to partially fund their government, and provide silly socialist things like parental leave, free college, and national health care.


Norway sounds a lot like the military. Minus the "dying for your country" part obviously. :lol

[boutons_deux]

Moving internationally is extremely expensive ($10Ks, minimum), to say nothing of furnishing a new residence in high-cost country, and these countries just don't let any old refugee from UCA's huddled, unwashed masses show up, become a resident, and take advantage of their society, having paid nothing in.

Germany, however, has a serious shortage of engineers and high-tech people. But of course they can probably fill that with Indians. And some you neo-Nazis could find plenty of German skinheads to hang with.

[greyforest]

Now's the time for this graph, per capita healthcare spending

http://www.cardi.ie/userfiles/GRAPH_EXPENDITURE.jpg

[boutons_deux]

so?

[jack sommerset]

As I am sitting in the waiting room to see my doctor I noticed a lady with a 3 yr old little girl. I have not yet brought my 8 yr old to this place because I feel more comfortable taking him to his pediatrician so I asked the lady if she felt this gp took care of her child, as opposed to a pediatrician. She must not have understood my question because her first response was that she was from norway and that her children received better health care there than here.

Should I have started to sing the national anthem and then told her to get the hell out of my country?

Did you get her number? Of course you didn't, you're a faggot.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Did you get her number? Of course you didn't, you're a faggot.


God bless the USA!!!!

[RandomGuy]

Moving internationally is extremely expensive ($10Ks, minimum), to say nothing of furnishing a new residence in high-cost country, and these countries just don't let any old refugee from UCA's huddled, unwashed masses show up, become a resident, and take advantage of their society, having paid nothing in.

Germany, however, has a serious shortage of engineers and high-tech people. But of course they can probably fill that with Indians. And some you neo-Nazis could find plenty of German skinheads to hang with.

That is why I will likely bring my already-educated ass to the table.

I dunno, I haven't gotten very far into it yet. Just mulling options.

[Wild Cobra]

Norway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway)
Population: 5,000,000
Sovereign Wealth Fund (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_wealth_fund) assets: $443,000,000,000

443,000,000,000/5,000,000 = $88,600 @


They took their oil/gas royalties from their considerable coastline (North Sea oil and gas) and pooled it into a very conservatively managed investment fund.

They use a certain amount of interest from this pool to partially fund their government, and provide silly socialist things like parental leave, free college, and national health care.

Gimmie that socialism any day.
Well, Alaska splits oil profits with their citizens without being socialists!

[Stringer_Bell]

The Dutch did a similar thing when they were pumping a lot more gas out of the North Sea.

Both countries took their gift of a common-good, natural resource wealth and distributed its benefits to the general populace. Dutch and Norwegian resource extractors have also done very well.

:lmao

Their gift of a common-good? Finders keepers, make a profit while the losers fuckin weep. If you don't like it - move to Europe because here in America we reward explorations and discovery. If finding oil or gas was so easy, don't you think everyone would be doing it? Yea, they would, so stop hating on the businesses that provide you with energy.

Unless you live in a cabin and burn your own shit for fuel...then you're allowed to have a different opinion.

[RandomGuy]

Well, Alaska splits oil profits with their citizens without being socialists!

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=57&pictureid=1316

[101A]

Now's the time for this graph, per capita healthcare spending

http://www.cardi.ie/userfiles/GRAPH_EXPENDITURE.jpg

So the U.S.'s PUBLIC per capita expenditure on healthcare is THIRD in the world? What are you liberals so upset about?

[MannyIsGod]

Well, Alaska splits oil profits with their citizens without being socialists!

:lmao

[ChumpDumper]

Well, Alaska splits oil profits with their citizens without being socialists!

So the U.S.'s PUBLIC per capita expenditure on healthcare is THIRD in the world? What are you liberals so upset about?So many facepalms, so little time....

[MannyIsGod]

I'm 99% sure 101 was just missing the blue font.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm 99% sure 101 was just missing the blue font.You're right. I thought it was WC again at first.

[coyotes_geek]

Norway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway)
Population: 5,000,000
Sovereign Wealth Fund (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_wealth_fund) assets: $443,000,000,000

443,000,000,000/5,000,000 = $88,600 @


They took their oil/gas royalties from their considerable coastline (North Sea oil and gas) and pooled it into a very conservatively managed investment fund.

They use a certain amount of interest from this pool to partially fund their government, and provide silly socialist things like parental leave, free college, and national health care.

Gimmie that socialism any day.

Saving money instead of spending it, and one day ending up with a nice revenue stream to enjoy looks more like fiscal conservatism to me than socialism. But whatever you call it, I'd take it.

[MannyIsGod]

Looking at that system and seeing fiscal conservatism require one hell of a pair of rose colored glasses. Deficit spending is something that the great conservative Jesus started.

[TeyshaBlue]

Looking at that system and seeing fiscal conservatism require one hell of a pair of rose colored glasses. Deficit spending is something that the great conservative Jesus started.

Don't confuse classical conservatism with the contemporary GOP. Aint the same thang.

[coyotes_geek]

Looking at that system and seeing fiscal conservatism require one hell of a pair of rose colored glasses. Deficit spending is something that the great conservative Jesus started.

fiscal conservatism and political conservatism aren't the same thing.

[MannyIsGod]

@Teysha

No doubt, but even classic conservationism doesn't cover what Norway did. I was more taking offense that socialism is somehow against being financially smart. Socialism merely provides that the government does more for society. It in no way imagines that it should be paid for by a giant ponzi scheme.

[MannyIsGod]

fiscal conservatism and political conservatism aren't the same thing.

Well, actually they are because fiscal conservatism is a form of political conservatism. Its a political term by nature. I just completely disagree that with the notion that socialism is inherently at odds with being fiscally responsible.

In fact, Norway is a great example of how aspects of socialism are great for the long term fiscal health of a nation.

[MannyIsGod]

Its merely a semantics argument but I think its an important one considering how demonized the word socialism is in this country.

[coyotes_geek]

Fair points. Definining those "-isms" gets hard. As far as I'm concerned "financially smart" is sufficient to get my support, regardless of what -isms people want to attach.

Texas actually does this very thing with the Permament University Fund that gives the A&M and U.T. systems a good portion of their funding.

[RandomGuy]

Saving money instead of spending it, and one day ending up with a nice revenue stream to enjoy looks more like fiscal conservatism to me than socialism. But whatever you call it, I'd take it.

It is governemnt ownership of private assets through the vehicle of their investment fund.

Frought with a bit of moral hazard, I would guess.

[ploto]

A family physician has training in pediatrics and it is nice to have one physician take care of the entire family.

[RandomGuy]

Its merely a semantics argument but I think its an important one considering how demonized the word socialism is in this country.

That's why I have begun reveling in the word.

It is enormously fun to push some people's buttons and advocate socialism.

Speaking of which, time to have beer with my libertarian/conservative christian buddies. whoot.

[SnakeBoy]

Norway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway)
Population: 5,000,000
Sovereign Wealth Fund (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_wealth_fund) assets: $443,000,000,000

443,000,000,000/5,000,000 = $88,600 @


They took their oil/gas royalties from their considerable coastline (North Sea oil and gas) and pooled it into a very conservatively managed investment fund.

They use a certain amount of interest from this pool to partially fund their government, and provide silly socialist things like parental leave, free college, and national health care.

Gimmie that socialism any day.

Except you oppose oil/gas development on our considerable coastline.

[clambake]

Except you oppose oil/gas development on our considerable coastline.

where does that oil go?

[jacobdrj]

Their mean income tax rate is about 30% higher than the US, and corporate tax rates only about 75% of what ours are.

If I would get what I pay for, I would take that. If I do not get what I pay for, I would not take it (read, live there). However, it is my understanding that people here in the US have often not gotten what they paid for, and while not in the form of a tax, they get that 30% taken away right from their paychecks anyways...

[jacobdrj]

So the U.S.'s PUBLIC per capita expenditure on healthcare is THIRD in the world? What are you liberals so upset about?

Probably lack of centralization, collaboration, and general availability of care, particularly when people are also buying private care.

IMHO our country is just too big and spread out to compare our situation to some small European country, that probably doesn't spend as much per capita on their defense budget...

[DarrinS]

Why would someone move form Norway to the US?


The OP sounds like a true story, btw. :rolleyes

[TeyshaBlue]

where does that oil go?

Good question. Where does Norway's oil go?

[clambake]

Good question. Where does Norway's oil go?

in the hot tub, silly.

[ElNono]

Why would someone move form Norway to the US?

A job offer? Company transfer? Visiting family?
I also missed where the OP said she moved here...

[greyforest]

So the U.S.'s PUBLIC per capita expenditure on healthcare is THIRD in the world? What are you liberals so upset about?

-Paying too much money and not receiving a proportional amount of health care.
-Health insurances which operate for profit and deny coverage as often as possible for the greatest amount of profit.

That about covers it.

[101A]

So the U.S.'s PUBLIC per capita expenditure on healthcare is THIRD in the world? What are you liberals so upset about?



I'm 99% sure 101 was just missing the blue font.

Might still missing something - if I am, please let me know before I go too deep here;

on that chart, only Four countries spend PUBLICLY more than $3,000 per capita on healthcare - the U.S. is one of those countries, and trails ONLY two of the others.

I stand by my statement; the United States ALREADY spends more through the government (socially, collectively, however you want to call it) than all but two other countries on the planet! More than Germany, more than Great Britain, more than Sweden and even Canada!

For all that spending we STILL don't have better than 90% of our population covered - and some of you want to give the government MORE control.

Our problem is not who, or how, medical care is paid for; it's how much medical care COSTS. Blame the insurance companies all you want, they're a great boogeyman; but they are NOT the root of the problem.

[101A]

-Paying too much money and not receiving a proportional amount of health care.
-Health insurances which operate for profit and deny coverage as often as possible for the greatest amount of profit.

That about covers it.

What is "a proportional amount of health care?"

When I'm sick, I get health care, when I'm not, I don't. Proportionally, I don't need any more.

[RandomGuy]

Except you oppose oil/gas development on our considerable coastline.

If the US government benefitted more than it does now, I would oppose it less. :toast

I do tend to think we could better spend billions of dollars in developing non-exhaustible forms of energy that are a helluva lot safer and easier than deep-sea drilling, and know that ultimately it won't make a shit's worth of difference at the pump.

[boutons_deux]

US govt has left probably $100Bs, maybe $Ts, of royalty to fees over the decades to oil, gas, coal, water extractors and forest destroyers, while the corps making $100Bs off US taxpayer resources externalize all the costs, such as polluted surface/aquifer water, polluted earth, polluted air. Public ownership, private gain, externalized costs to public.

[greyforest]

What is "a proportional amount of health care?"

When I'm sick, I get health care, when I'm not, I don't. Proportionally, I don't need any more.

"A proportional amount of health care" would mean that since the USA pays the most money per capita, the people living there would have the best healthcare system. This is not the case. That means that a LARGE portion of the $7000 per capita the US spends is getting stolen by a lot of people, because other first world countries like Norway and Sweden pay a little over half as much per capita for a very comparable healthcare system, and with very little out-of-pocket spending.

[boutons_deux]

"$7000 per capita the US spends is getting stolen"

the biggest criminals are on the provider side, insurers, docs, hospital, BigPharma, BigDevice overcharging for service and overtreating to run up the bill, and all parasites that suck money out of the bloated sick-care system.

ACA didn't address the exploding costs from providers.

it doesn't help that Americans are a self-inflicted, diseased bunch of fat asses

1900 5 lbs/sugar per capita

today 135 lbs/sugar per capita

[TeyshaBlue]

"$7000 per capita the US spends is getting stolen"

the biggest criminals are on the provider side, insurers, docs, hospital, BigPharma, BigDevice overcharging for service and overtreating to run up the bill, and all parasites that suck money out of the bloated sick-care system.

ACA didn't address the exploding costs from providers.

it doesn't help that Americans are a self-inflicted, diseased bunch of fat asses

1900 5 lbs/sugar per capita

today 135 lbs/sugar per capita

lol.
1900 Life expectancy 49.24 years

Today 77.7 years.

You're not connecting many dots here, boutons.

[CosmicCowboy]

I love how you guys want to compare the US to these little podunk countries. Shit, theres more people in Houston, Texas than in Norway. It's hardly comparing apples to apples.

[boutons_deux]

So because USA has 300M and not 8M or 80M, it must have a shitty, wasteful, corrupt, gouging sick-care system, that leaves 50M uninsured and underserved until they are much sicker.

[CosmicCowboy]

So move to Norway shithead.

[RandomGuy]

I love how you guys want to compare the US to these little podunk countries. Shit, theres more people in Houston, Texas than in Norway. It's hardly comparing apples to apples.

True. The US has a lot higher poverty rate than Norway, if I remember correctly.

Oddly enough a google search came up with this:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100105115910AAVyMcJ


Where I live in Norway, salaries are really high (for anywhere in the world). So an average salary here (470.000 NOK or $82K USD) is definitely higher than in North America. However, you can get much higher individual salaries in somewhere like the US (I'm not familiar with Canadian/Mexican salaries).

Most jobs here pay at least 130 NOK/hour, which is currently about $23 USD (or almost $45K per year full time). Jobs in that pay category are unskilled/student work, like in fast food, a bar, cleaning, etc. Every job pays a living wage, and poverty is almost non-existent. Taxes are high too though, if you work full time at that rate, you pay about 36% tax. Cost of living is also high, but even after you consider that and taxes, it goes much farther than the wage for a similar job in North America.

Higher paying jobs don't earn that much more than lower paying ones though, not to the extent that they do in the US. There are a few jobs that pay really well. Average salary for an engineer here is 518.000 NOK ($90K). Average for lawyers is around 800.000 NOK ($140K). Similar to the US, but experienced workers in private US companies can earn a lot more than a Norwegian in a top position.

Average salaries in many other western European countries are also higher than in the US, but usually not to the same extent as Norway and the other Nordic countries. Top business positions in the UK can earn a lot though, moreso than in Norway.

You can read a Eurostat publication about purchasing power here, which is a better indication of comparative wealth (within each country) than salary:
http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/portal/…
Source(s):
American in Norway, I've also worked in Sweden and the UK

[boutons_deux]

What's a matter, UCA fanboys, hate to see your myth that America is the Best Damn Country in Universe blasted to shit?

How about trying to make it better? You'll fail. The Repugs and conservatives are dead set on fucking up the country, and they can't be stopped.

[Homeland Security]

You people will never get it. Norway is a small, homogeneous country with enough oil to take care of everyone. The United States is enormous and heterogeneous. Most people in Norway have the cognitive capacity to add value to their society. The United States is full of blacks and other groups who are net parasites.

It will all get better once this government collapses and we can execute the purge.