Jordan vs Kobe ........ the "real" tale of the tape

[lebomb]

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-bryant-vs-jordan-i,0,5279814.htmlstory


...............actually stats dont lie. Jordan will be hard to ever top. Kobe maybe dayum good, but the best ever mentioned in the same sentence with MJ?? :lmao

[Phillip]

lol utsa

[Axe Murderer]

crofl utsa

[Wilford Brimley]

croflmao utsa

[Indazone]

MJ for the GOAT!

[lebomb]

MJ for the GOAT!

I dont understand why people even say its really close? The number of rings I guess?? *shrugs*

[MiamiHeat]

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-bryant-vs-jordan-i,0,5279814.htmlstory


...............actually stats dont lie. Jordan will be hard to ever top. Kobe maybe dayum good, but the best ever mentioned in the same sentence with MJ?? :lmao

wait what?

"the best ever mentioned in the same sentence with MJ"

you realize what u said there right

[MiamiHeat]

I dont understand why people even say its really close? The number of rings I guess?? *shrugs*

only laker fans try to talk about this.

notice it's the Los Angeles Times bringing this garbage up.

the rest of the nation tells them to stfu, and it only fuels more hate for kobe.

[Killakobe81]

Who cares it fuels more hate ...that is what is great about sports ...debating who is the greatest players. What I hate is why people get offended if People compare the two ...we all know MJ is greater at this point and I doubt Kobe will ever catch him... But Lebron can he is still young. And watch if he starts winning ...people will hate on him too because it already has started. Yes Lebron is an arrogant douche, and Kobe is a self-absorbed prick. But they can both ball and can be mentioned in the same sentence with ANYONE. (especially when Lebron starts winning) Sure it's a short debate about who is the GOAT but anyone that refuses to at least consider the argument is narrow minded.

[lefty]

Magic Johnson is the GOAT

[Killakobe81]

Magic Johnson is the GOAT

Greatest team player and just pure "winner" I have ever seen. Dont care about athleticism or who is team-mates were ...my all time favorite player ...by FAR!

I give MJ the edge but to me it was closer than most think ...

[rickross]

Greatest team player and just pure "winner" I have ever seen. Dont care about athleticism or who is team-mates were ...my all time favorite player ...by FAR!

I give MJ the edge but to me it was closer than most think ...


mj was lucky he played in an era wit no great teams. celts/lakers/troit whooped hiz azz to da tree of woe repeteadly.

[MiamiHeat]

Who cares it fuels more hate ...that is what is great about sports ...debating who is the greatest players. What I hate is why people get offended if People compare the two ...we all know MJ is greater at this point and I doubt Kobe will ever catch him... But Lebron can he is still young. And watch if he starts winning ...people will hate on him too because it already has started. Yes Lebron is an arrogant douche, and Kobe is a self-absorbed prick. But they can both ball and can be mentioned in the same sentence with ANYONE. (especially when Lebron starts winning) Sure it's a short debate about who is the GOAT but anyone that refuses to at least consider the argument is narrow minded.

it's offensive because Kobe isn't even the greatest Laker of all time, but los angeles people want to skip right over Magic and West and Kareem like if they dont exist and go right at the GOAT MJ.

It's disgusting as a knowledgeable bball fan to hear this shit.

[JamStone]

I dont understand why people even say its really close? The number of rings I guess?? *shrugs*

It's not close. The only people who think it's close are Kobe fanbois and Laker slappies. But Jordan will always be better than Kobe. The only thing Kobe has a chance at beating Michael at is number of championships, but that's not even close to being a guarantee. But if Kobe can do that, he'll at least have a leg to stand on in the debate.

It's not that Kobe is close. It's that he's the "closest" of any other player since Jordan until LeBron had emerged. But unlike LeBron, Kobe also has the championship pedigree to be in the conversation. If no other player comes close, the "closest" gets in the conversation of a comparative discussion.

[JamStone]

it's offensive because Kobe isn't even the greatest Laker of all time, but los angeles people want to skip right over Magic and West and Kareem like if they dont exist and go right at the GOAT MJ.

It's disgusting as a knowledgeable bball fan to hear this shit.

Kobe has easily past Jerry West among Laker greats. And Kobe has surpassed Kareem in number of seasons and total points as a Laker. I think Kobe has passed Kareem as well. The only guy Kobe is arguably behind is Magic. Winning another title would make for an interesting argument though.

[MiamiHeat]

except many bball fans look at kobe's career and don't see a LEGIT championship pedigree.

they see a brat that refused to play for the team that drafted him, forced a trade to the Lakers, and go to play for one of the best organizations in sports. The Lakers are like the Yankees, they buy the best players and win many championships.

Kobe got his first 3 with Shaq in his prime, who was already dominating the NBA and led the Magic to the Finals before he got to LA. those don't really count as Kobe having some sort of "championship pedigree" as if he carried those teams or someshit.

then he shot his team out of the finals in 04 in an ABYSMAL performance and was the victim of one of the greatest upsets in NBA history, fought with his coach and teammates, floundered and missed the playoffs, squandered a 3-1 lead over the suns and refused to take shots in a game 7 to prove a point, demanded a trade, then the Lakers ORGANIZATION saved his ass and pulled some strings under the table and acquired Pau fucking Gasol without having to give up Odom or any big assets.

basically, Kobe is more of a product of the Lakers organization than he is self-made. I have never seen Kobe take over a series and put on a legendary performance. Never in my life. It's not in him. His stats all go down in the playoffs. There's nothing heroic about him. Nothing legendary.

Even Wade put up what ESPN ranked as the greatest Finals performance in NBA history in only his first and only trip to the finals. Magic played Center to help save the team and dominated and helped the Lakers win the series. MJ completely dominated series.

there's nothing magical or heroic about kobe. he's manufactured, and a lot of bball fans see this.

even his latest achievements of passing Jerry West on the all-time Laker scoring list. Look at the seasons and games played. West shits on Kobe. In fact, the only reason Kobe passed him is due to playing longer and the fact that West played in an era when the 3pt line didn't exist.

I'm not hating, it's just factual observations. I look at Kobe, and had he gone to the team that drafted him, he would have 0 championships right now and not even be close to the star he is.

[Killakobe81]

It's not close. The only people who think it's close are Kobe fanbois and Laker slappies. But Jordan will always be better than Kobe. The only thing Kobe has a chance at beating Michael at is number of championships, but that's not even close to being a guarantee. But if Kobe can do that, he'll at least have a leg to stand on in the debate.

It's not that Kobe is close. It's that he's the "closest" of any other player since Jordan until LeBron had emerged. But unlike LeBron, Kobe also has the championship pedigree to be in the conversation. If no other player comes close, the "closest" gets in the conversation of a comparative discussion.

Agree with most of this. Kobe and Magic are close (Magic ahead) and Magic is a bit closer to MJ than yall give him credit for ...

But deabte is still healthy no matter the subject. you shouldnt accept the godfather or Citizen Kane or whatever movie as the all time greatest without having healthy debate on the matter.

Of course I think Blueprint, 36 chambers, Chronic, Aquermani, illmatic are better albulms than Thank me Later, Carter III, or Recovery ...but the debate is still important and healthy ...and Im not insulted when people of this generation make those arguments. I laugh and I close the debate quickly ...BUT to act insulted is to be narrow minded.

[JamStone]

stool brory co

[Killakobe81]

except many bball fans look at kobe's career and don't see a LEGIT championship pedigree.

they see a brat that refused to play for the team that drafted him, forced a trade to the Lakers, and go to play for one of the best organizations in sports. The Lakers are like the Yankees, they buy the best players and win many championships.

Kobe got his first 3 with Shaq in his prime, who was already dominating the NBA and led the Magic to the Finals before he got to LA. those don't really count as Kobe having some sort of "championship pedigree" as if he carried those teams or someshit.

then he shot his team out of the finals in 04 in an ABYSMAL performance and was the victim of one of the greatest upsets in NBA history, fought with his coach and teammates, floundered and missed the playoffs, squandered a 3-1 lead over the suns and refused to take shots in a game 7 to prove a point, demanded a trade, then the Lakers ORGANIZATION saved his ass and pulled some strings under the table and acquired Pau fucking Gasol without having to give up Odom or any big assets.

basically, Kobe is more of a product of the Lakers organization than he is self-made. I have never seen Kobe take over a series and put on a legendary performance. Never in my life. It's not in him. His stats all go down in the playoffs. There's nothing heroic about him. Nothing legendary.

Even Wade put up what ESPN ranked as the greatest Finals performance in NBA history in only his first and only trip to the finals. Magic played Center to help save the team and dominated and helped the Lakers win the series. MJ completely dominated series.

there's nothing magical or heroic about kobe. he's manufactured, and a lot of bball fans see this.

even his latest achievements of passing Jerry West on the all-time Laker scoring list. Look at the seasons and games played. West shits on Kobe. In fact, the only reason Kobe passed him is due to playing longer and the fact that West played in an era when the 3pt line didn't exist.

I'm not hating, it's just factual observations. I look at Kobe, and had he gone to the team that drafted him, he would have 0 championships right now and not even be close to the star he is.

You can say you are not hating but what does that have to do with ball? Most of what you put on here is better suited for Oprah's couch. If you gonna get all emo about it, hard to take your points seriously. Did Kobe benefit from playing with the Lakers? yes. But did he carry that team while the Lakers realoaded yes? In fact his play kept them relevant enough to sustainthe courtside prices until Pau came and they returned to contender status.
All the great winning players played for good franchises and had great team-mates ...getting all butthurt about it or writing a diatribe about it won't change anything. You are entitled to your opinion but plenty see the greatness and whether or not he is overrated he is not manufactured kid worked hard to get where he is. He does not have the physical gifts or Lebron or MJ but yet there he is.

[jjktkk]

Who cares it fuels more hate ...that is what is great about sports ...debating who is the greatest players. What I hate is why people get offended if People compare the two ...we all know MJ is greater at this point and I doubt Kobe will ever catch him... But Lebron can he is still young. And watch if he starts winning ...people will hate on him too because it already has started. Yes Lebron is an arrogant douche, and Kobe is a self-absorbed prick. But they can both ball and can be mentioned in the same sentence with ANYONE. (especially when Lebron starts winning) Sure it's a short debate about who is the GOAT but anyone that refuses to at least consider the argument is narrow minded.

Lebron arguably possesses the greatest physical talent the league has ever seen, but he has quite a ways to go to catch up to Kobe, much less MJ. Lebron needs to win a championship 1st before he can start getting into the goat catagory imo.

[Killakobe81]

I agree everytime I mention Lebron I qualify it by saying he NEEDS to win ...

[Cry Havoc]

It's not that Kobe is close. It's that he's the "closest" of any other player since Jordan until LeBron had emerged. But unlike LeBron, Kobe also has the championship pedigree to be in the conversation. If no other player comes close, the "closest" gets in the conversation of a comparative discussion.

That's kind of a flawed metric, considering it's only been 12 years since Jordan was dominating the league.

[monosylab1k]

wait what?

"the best ever mentioned in the same sentence with MJ"

you realize what u said there right

no, unfortunately he doesn't, he's lebomb which means he's a fuckin retard.

[TDfan2007]

Kobe is a product of LA and his hard work. He has straight up taken over entire playoff series (even though his numbers generally go down). He shat all over the Spurs in 2001, 2002, 2004, and 2008. In those playoff series Kobe was clearly the best Laker on the floor, and the Spurs had no answer. I've personally had to sit through 2004 and 2008 and I'll tell you he was amazing.

Could he have done it without a dominant big taking a lot of attention? Maybe not, but the numbers he put up against us, and all of the clutch shots he made speak for themselves.

Just last year Kobe destroyed Phoenix and Utah. He's not a GOAT playoff performer like MJ or Timmy, but Kobe gets it done in the playoffs more often than not.

[TDfan2007]

Kobe is a product of LA and his hard work. He has straight up taken over entire playoff series (even though his numbers generally go down). He shat all over the Spurs in 2001, 2002, 2004, and 2008. In those playoff series Kobe was clearly the best Laker on the floor, and the Spurs had no answer. I've personally had to sit through 2004 and 2008 and I'll tell you he was amazing.

Could he have done it without a dominant big taking a lot of attention? Maybe not, but the numbers he put up against us, and all of the clutch shots he made speak for themselves.

Just last year Kobe destroyed Phoenix and Utah. He's not a GOAT playoff performer like MJ or Timmy, but Kobe gets it done in the playoffs more often than not.

[Phillip]

medvedenko viewing the thread

"kobe is the best, because i said so!"

ask medvedenko why he feels that way...

"i dont have to explain myself to you!!!!!!!! just know that he is the best and I know exactly why he is!!!! :cry :cry :cry"

[Greg Oden]

movies with actual plots give me headaches :cry

lol lebomb

[TipsytheLurker]

:rollin Kobe's small hands. I bet you can barely see his nub fingerprints on those five trophies.

[JamStone]

That's kind of a flawed metric, considering it's only been 12 years since Jordan was dominating the league.

Shrugs, if you think so, that's cool. But it's been longer than 12 years because players were already being compared to Jordan before he retired. Guys like JR Rider and Harold Miner were compared to him. Guys like Michael Finley and Penny Hardaway. It's been more like 20 years.

And it's because the premier scoring wings that came before Jordan, like Baylor and Gervin and English and David Thompson, didn't compare either. And his contemporaries like Nique and Drexler didn't either. And even the all time greats like Dr J. don't touch him either. So we're talking about pretty much the entire history of the NBA, not merely the 12 years since his second retirement. It's my bad for saying "since" Jordan. I should have said in the history of the league. Dominance from an individual statistical perspective while also dominating in terms of championships. Kobe still comes closest than all those other guys. Kobe is not and never will be better than Jordan, but he's still closer.

And even if you want to talk about the 12 years since Jordan dominated, there have been plenty of guys who were supposed to take the torch from Jordan, from Iverson to Penny to Grant Hill to Vince Carter to Tracy McGrady to LeBron and Wade. Kobe's the closest. He has his flaws. He's not at the same level as Michael. But he is the closest.

[TampaDude]

MJ is the GOAT, and it's not even close.

[Killakobe81]

Kobe is a product of LA and his hard work. He has straight up taken over entire playoff series (even though his numbers generally go down). He shat all over the Spurs in 2001, 2002, 2004, and 2008. In those playoff series Kobe was clearly the best Laker on the floor, and the Spurs had no answer. I've personally had to sit through 2004 and 2008 and I'll tell you he was amazing.

Could he have done it without a dominant big taking a lot of attention? Maybe not, but the numbers he put up against us, and all of the clutch shots he made speak for themselves.

Just last year Kobe destroyed Phoenix and Utah. He's not a GOAT playoff performer like MJ or Timmy, but Kobe gets it done in the playoffs more often than not.

I dont completely agree but that was probaly the best non homer take on Kobe by a legit Spur fan on this site ...props.

[Killakobe81]

Shrugs, if you think so, that's cool. But it's been longer than 12 years because players were already being compared to Jordan before he retired. Guys like JR Rider and Harold Miner were compared to him. Guys like Michael Finley and Penny Hardaway. It's been more like 20 years.

And it's because the premier scoring wings that came before Jordan, like Baylor and Gervin and English and David Thompson, didn't compare either. And his contemporaries like Nique and Drexler didn't either. And even the all time greats like Dr J. don't touch him either. So we're talking about pretty much the entire history of the NBA, not merely the 12 years since his second retirement. It's my bad for saying "since" Jordan. I should have said in the history of the league. Dominance from an individual statistical perspective while also dominating in terms of championships. Kobe still comes closest than all those other guys. Kobe is not and never will be better than Jordan, but he's still closer.

And even if you want to talk about the 12 years since Jordan dominated, there have been plenty of guys who were supposed to take the torch from Jordan, from Iverson to Penny to Grant Hill to Vince Carter to Tracy McGrady to LeBron and Wade. Kobe's the closest. He has his flaws. He's not at the same level as Michael. But he is the closest.

Jam is correct here as well ...

[Killakobe81]

One question what dominant big did the Lakers have in 2008?
You mean skilled, versatile and efficient big?
Yes we had Pau ...dominant? Do some of you know the definition of the word? The antonym is Pau ...

[Kyle Orton]

It's not close. The only people who think it's close are Kobe fanbois and Laker slappies.

and Pistons fans

[JamStone]

and Pistons fans

:lol


true...

[HarlemHeat37]

medvedenko viewing the thread

"kobe is the best, because i said so!"

ask medvedenko why he feels that way...

"i dont have to explain myself to you!!!!!!!! just know that he is the best and I know exactly why he is!!!! :cry :cry :cry"

:lol Sad, because that's exactly what happens..every single time..



If Kobe wins a 6th ring, I'm sure this debate will gain even more momentum, even though there's no legit comparison..however, if Kobe doesn't win another title, I'm pretty sure you will hear a lot less of this, once he retires..it's more media-driven than anything IMO..

Kobe is a great player, top 10 all-time..he's a top 5 talent(talent that was fulfilled, at least) in NBA history, the #2 best perimeter scorer in NBA history..a great playoff performer, particularly in the first 3 rounds..however, he simply isn't/wasn't ever as good as Jordan, and that obviously isn't a knock on him..

The only knock on MJ was that he played in a watered-down era of basketball(which isn't really a great argument, since he dominated the 80s players on the court, as well)..if you're just looking at his game, his accomplishments, and his performance in relation to his era, there isn't a player that can be compared to him..

[ezau]

Agree with Killa, it should be an MJ vs. Magic debate.

[Kyle Orton]

:lol Sad, because that's exactly what happens..every single time..



You're just a hater :cry:cry:cry if you can't see why Kobe > Jordan :cry:cry:cry

another one of Medvedenko's favorite arguments is "How can you possibly know Jordan is better when you never saw Jordan play :cry"

[m33p0]

30+ points a game with handcheck allowed. nuff sed.