The case against public sector unionism

[Marcus Bryant]

http://www.professorbainbridge.com/professorbainbridgecom/2011/02/the-case-against-public-sector-unionism.html

[Capt Bringdown]

The Vocational and Avocational Journal of a Corporate Law Professor
As a non-unionized public sector employee who studies organizations for a living...

Hmmm, not a working man, bully for him. It takes all kinds, but I think my local fireman, policeman & teacher are better judges of whether or not they have the right to join a union.

As did MLK:

MLK And Public Employee Unions (http://bayridgejournal.blogspot.com/2011/01/mlk-and-public-employee-unions.html)

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_v7YSfLsH34I/TTUIGxt05eI/AAAAAAAAI7U/HEKfrhR1XKQ/s1600/mlk.jpg


When he was assassinated, King was on the front lines with public employees organizing labor unions. His "I Have a Dream" speech was delivered at the 1963 "March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom" -- an event that explicitly linked civil rights with economic justice.

King always saw that link in the struggle of public employee unions for dignity, fair pay, fair benefits and recognition.

In April of 1968, King made his last trip, at age 39, to march with and campaign on behalf of members of the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees union in Memphis, Tennessee.


Case closed

[Winehole23]

The great man thought so, so ought we all? :lol

[Capt Bringdown]

The great man thought so, so ought we all? :lol

No, you're free to conjure you own idea of social justice. I think MLK's vision is pretty compelling, electrifying even. Especially if compared to a corporate lawyer.

[Winehole23]

Everybody looks good next to a corporate lawyer.




(You said "case closed." Just wondered who/what you thought you disposed of there. I guess you just meant, that settles it for you)

[Capt Bringdown]

Yes, MLK has a lot to teach us...most would agree I reckon. Maybe you shouldn't hold the "great man" thing against him so much. Give him a try, you might learn something.

His speech, Beyond Vietnam -- A Time to Break Silence (http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/mlkatimetobreaksilence.htm), is a great place to start.

[Winehole23]

Yes, MLK has a lot to teach us...most would agree I reckon. Maybe you shouldn't hold the "great man" thing against him so much. Give him a try, you might learn something.I might have, and I don't hold the great man thing against him.

Not sure how that is a defense of trade unionism. It still looks like an appeal to authority -- a logical fallacy rather than a true argument.

I very much hold it against people who think emulating the great man absolves them from thinking for themselves or explaining it to others.

[doobs]

I read this the other day. Good stuff.

FDR's view is especially persuasive. FD-freaking-R.

[boutons_deux]

Employee unions, private or public, are "united we stand".

Intimidated, silenced, over-worked, under-paid, and eventually fired individual employees are "divided we fall".

The VRWC and its proxies in compromised government are killing any countervailing power, eg unions or any kind of "social" action, to their unstoppable accumulation of wealth and power.

The VRWC has successfully busted private sector unions, so they are now going after public sector unions, while divided, duped, lied-to citizens cheer them on.

[Wild Cobra]

The article is correct. The term "public servant" used to have meaning. It should be an honor and privilege to work for the government. Not an entitlement.

[DarrinS]

No, you're free to conjure you own idea of social justice. I think MLK's vision is pretty compelling, electrifying even. Especially if compared to a corporate lawyer.


There is no such thing as social justice, environmental justice, etc. (only the left thinks so).


There's only justice.

[boutons_deux]

How is working for the govt an entitlement?

They put in hours, often have to have higher qualifications and eduction than private sector, they get paid in salary and benefits, just like in private sector.

You can't eat when paid in "honor and privilege".

[DarrinS]

How is working for the govt an entitlement?

They put in hours, often have to have higher qualifications and eduction than private sector, they get paid in salary and benefits, just like in private sector.

You can't eat when paid in "honor and privilege".



Ever heard the expression "good enough for government work"? :lmao

[boutons_deux]

How is working for the govt an entitlement?

[Wild Cobra]

How is working for the govt an entitlement?
Working for the government isn't. That's my point. The employees take it as such.

[boutons_deux]

"The employees take it as such."

100s of 1000s of them laid off in Banksters' Great Depression, just like the 8M jobs lost in the private sector.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

There is no such thing as social justice, environmental justice, etc. (only the left thinks so).


There's only justice.

There is no such thing as baconburgers, cheeseburgers or chiliburgers. There's only burgers.

you comment is so mindnumbingly stupid. they are all human concepts.

the ancient greeks thought there were several forms of justice for example.

there is no such thing as these particular semantic constructions. there is only my favorite semantic construction.

[Wild Cobra]

"The employees take it as such."

100s of 1000s of them laid off in Banksters' Great Depression, just like the 8M jobs lost in the private sector.
Stop being a crybaby. They aren't the only ones.

[DarrinS]

There is no such thing as baconburgers, cheeseburgers or chiliburgers. There's only burgers.

you comment is so mindnumbingly stupid. they are all human concepts.

the ancient greeks thought there were several forms of justice for example.

there is no such thing as these particular semantic constructions. there is only my favorite semantic construction.


Oh, the irony. :lmao


Tell me, smart boy, why does lady justice wear a blindfold?

[Sec24Row7]

It should be illegal for Unions to require companies to only Hire union employees... and it should be illegal for unions to gain mandatory wage garnishment.

Their "tithe" should be voluntary.

[Yonivore]

The Vocational and Avocational Journal of a Corporate Law Professor
As a non-unionized public sector employee who studies organizations for a living...

Hmmm, not a working man, bully for him. It takes all kinds, but I think my local fireman, policeman & teacher are better judges of whether or not they have the right to join a union.
Then, they shouldn't be opposed to the reforms being proposed in Wisconsin.

After all, in addition to bringing entitlements more in line with the rest of Wisconsin workers, the reforms would allow the local firefighter, police officer, and teacher to vote, annually, on whether or not to keep the union, and put an end to automatic payroll deduction of union dues.

What's their beef?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Oh, the irony. :lmao


Tell me, smart boy, why does lady justice wear a blindfold?

because of ancient idol worship starting a few millinea ago. apparently it was part of ancient egyptian religous icons. at least thats what wikipedia says.

its a symbol and has about as much 'truth' as any artistic symbolism.

It has as much validity as the pharaohs who they thought were divine or were convinced or whatever.

why do burgers have mushrooms?

or even better: why is god wearing a hat?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_iAjtsjuish4/TSqsPwm5vEI/AAAAAAAAABg/GmH9qG-VEoU/s1600/MontyPythonGod.jpg

thats about as worthwhile a question.

it certainly is not mutually exclusive. going back to the ancients, Plato and Aristotle disagreed on the nature of justice. one said it was a metaphysical reality while the other viewed it more as an ethic within human interactions without the mysticism.

both of them were just voicing an opinion and neither was right or wrong.

they just are.

if you want to say that there is only one way that anyone can view justice or if you think that you have found some universal truth then thats great. you go ahead and pigeonhole yourself.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It should be illegal for Unions to require companies to only Hire union employees... and it should be illegal for unions to gain mandatory wage garnishment.

Their "tithe" should be voluntary.

yup i cannot believe that has held up under constitutional scrutiny.

i feel just as strongly about these attempts to violate people's rights to assembly.

you might as well ban the governments that agreed to the contracts for all the sense that makes.

[Sec24Row7]

rofl

the case against public unions is that people in the private sector might get these weird ideas that they deserve retirement, weekends, overtime pay, vacation, severance...all these things that chip away at the company owner's profit margin

You use past victories because current union demands are indefensible. What do unions do now that warrant their existence? What do they do that warrants their garnished dues?

NOTHING! They have and always will be founded in a firm base of socialism, and deal with capitalist concepts only when their feet are held to the fire.

Unions are Union first... not worker first, not worker's jobs first.

[Marcus Bryant]

"Social justice" now extends to preventing middle class Caucasian pedagogues from making contributions for their health and pension benefits?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

"Social justice" now extends to preventing middle class Caucasian pedagogues from making contributions for their health and pension benefits?

Pedagogue? Where? i see some talk of communism but that does not jive with your assertion.

is the contract they negotiated open ended or is there a time limit to it?

[Wild Cobra]

It should be illegal for Unions to require companies to only Hire union employees... and it should be illegal for unions to gain mandatory wage garnishment.

Their "tithe" should be voluntary.
Agreed.

[101A]

Unions are Union first... not worker first, not worker's jobs first.

Speaks the truth.

My wife's in a union (APSCUF - Pennsylvania professors). The EMPLOYEES of APSCUF formed their OWN union.

[Marcus Bryant]

Speaks the truth.

My wife's in a union (APSCUF - Pennsylvania professors). The EMPLOYEES of APSCUF formed their OWN union.

Awesome.

[Marcus Bryant]

Pedagogue? Where? i see some talk of communism but that does not jive with your assertion.

is the contract they negotiated open ended or is there a time limit to it?

Pedagogy predates Marx and Engels. By a few millennia.

And it is their profession, all nostalgic pretense for the little red schoolhouse aside.

[boutons_deux]

union-bashing rampant, but mgmt is never bashed.

VRWC brain-washing extremely successful, you dumbfucks.

[Marcus Bryant]

Yeah, I've seen no criticism of elected public officials in this forum. Back in your cage.

[boutons_deux]

"mgmt" is private-sector mgmt, you know, the guys making 400x the avg US salary while Real Americans' household income has stagnated for 30 years.

[Marcus Bryant]

Not in this case. "Mgmt" is the politician and the people are the shareholders, as it were.

If antipathy towards public employee unions signifies membership in the "VRWC" that term has a different meaning than what you appear to believe it does.

[boutons_deux]

The VRWC has poisoned millions of suckers against their own interests, against all govt, against unions, etc. while deflecting the true blame from the VRWC themselves.

The VRWC has really won, and America is in permanent decline.

[boutons_deux]

The Tea Party Is Winning


Take five steps back and consider the nature of the political conversation in our nation’s capital. You would never know that it’s taking place at a moment when unemployment is still at 9 percent, when wages for so many people are stagnating at best, and when the United States faces unprecedented challenges to its economic dominance.

No, we are acting here as if the only real problem the United States confronts is the budget deficit, the only test of leadership is whether a president is willing to make big cuts in programs that protect the elderly, and the largest threat to our prosperity comes from public employees.

Take another five steps back and you realize how successful the tea party has been. No matter how much liberals may poke fun at them, tea party partisans can claim victory in fundamentally altering the country’s dialogue.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/print/the_tea_party_is_winning_20110220/

====

the tea party is financed/duped by the VRWC

[RandomGuy]

The article is correct. The term "public servant" used to have meaning. It should be an honor and privilege to work for the government. Not an entitlement.

Because presently, everybody who works for any government is a spoiled shit.

Right?

[Yonivore]

Because presently, everybody who works for any government is a spoiled shit.

Right?
Unionized government jobs? Yes; yes, they are.