The best article on the Kobe vs. Duncan debate

[midnightpulp]

Not trolling with this article by any means. I believe Kobe Bryant is a top ten player of all-time and one of the most fundamentally sound perimeter players in NBA history. That said, when most Spurs fans say we would take Tim Duncan 10 times out of 10 over Bryant to start a franchise, it's not hate or homerism speaking, but a recognition of the facts and the differences between each player's game, both of which the author of the following article examines in detail.

Too bad we can't get this kind of objective and rational analysis from the ESPNs of the world (which morons like Lakaluva and history2b consider as gospel. Okay, had to throw a little trolling in there.)

Some excepts from the article:

"Jesse Blanchard did a good job of explaining this during the faithful Daily Dime chat when he stated: “Kobe Bryant has been known to shut down his opponent whereas Tim Duncan was known to shut down entire offenses by himself”. Indeed, Duncan’s productivity as well as his efficiency have made the Spurs team a championship contender throughout his tenure in San Antonio while the same cannot be said about Bryant."

"There really isn’t any diplomatic way to this: Tim Duncan’s playoff performances essentially run circles over Kobe Bryant’s."

"Not only has Tim Duncan been better than Kobe Bryant during his entire career, one can only wonder: were we wrong in selecting Kobe Bryant as the player of the decade? It would sure seem as such."

http://www.warriorsworld.net/2011/02/20/kobe-duncan-debate-close/

[Muser]

That sentence makes no sense.

[midnightpulp]

That sentence makes no sense.

?

[Muser]

If we're talking about shutting down a whole offense, how can you expect a guard to shut down a 7 footer?

[midnightpulp]

If we're talking about shutting down a whole offense, how can you expect a guard to shut down a 7 footer?

Exactly the reason big men are more valued in the NBA. A 2 guard can only guard players close to his size, whereas a big man can guard the opposing team's best big along with shutting down penetration from their guards. Big men simply impact a game defensively more than a guard.

[DMC]

I don't think you can compare the two positions, they play such different roles. Also, you cannot compare how they are managed because that plays a huge role in how effective they can be individually.

They are both incredible players, different strengths and weaknesses and very different personalities.

I see no need to pick a "best" between them. It's like picking the best between a car and a truck.

[Killakobe81]

I don't think you can compare the two positions, they play such different roles. Also, you cannot compare how they are managed because that plays a huge role in how effective they can be individually.

They are both incredible players, different strengths and weaknesses and very different personalities.

I see no need to pick a "best" between them. It's like picking the best between a car and a truck.

Agreed.

I dont think you can credit the playoff success of Kobe or Duncan to either as individuals completely ...it is a team sport. If that is teh case then Duncan would deserve blame for the sweep last year. YEs they are the leaders for most of their teams (except the early 2000's Lakers) but that's a dumb reason...for this conclusion. I can get the argument you would rather have a big ...and I agree with that for the most part. I just think Kobe is the kind of player that you would take over most bigs. But Duncan is great and I think it's close enough that I can't say people who value Duncan over Kobe are morons. Some would take Kobe others Duncan ...you really cant go wrong with either. But there is no need to knock one to build up the other both to me are top 10 players I just place kobe slightly above.

My list (only since 1980)
1. MJ
2. Magic
3. Kareem
4. Kobe
5. Duncan
6. Shaq
7. Bird
8. Hakeem
9. Isiah
10. Lebron* (pending a title) Wade or Pippen could be here until then

I think the top 3 are indisputable ...thouigh I can see an argument for Kareem or Magic at one but I have MJ.

At 4,5,6,7,8 Are also debateable that is the beauty of a sports DEBATE. No articles can make a definitive argument. It's clearly a subjective process ...and unless you use stats only aree biased arguments. Even with stats it's still biased based on the criteria used for the analysis ..

[Baseline]

Bryant isn't on my Top Ten list since 1980.

Why would he be? He's a volume-shooting guard who has only won rings with a dominant big man. When he's had his "own team," he's either been a 7-8 seed or he's missed the playoffs entirely.

The whole notion of Bryant being an all-time great player is a media fabrication.

[manufan10]

http://www.gifbin.com/bin/112010/1288692992_eye-popping.gif

[Giuseppe]

The 5-4 Bryant over Duncan is the elephant in the room.

And Bryant knows it. It's how he sleeps at night since Perkins stepped out the door at the top of Game Six.

tee, hee.

[midnightpulp]

Players with all-time playoff OR/DR margins above 10:

Magic Johnson: 122, 107
MJ: 118, 104
Tim Duncan: 110, 98
Kareem: 114, 103
Hakeem: 112, 101
Larry Bird: 114, 104

[Giuseppe]

The 5-4 Bryant over Duncan is the elephant in the room.

And Bryant knows it. It's how he sleeps at night since Perkins stepped out the door at the top of Game Six.

tee, hee.

:lol

[midnightpulp]

Accidental bump.

[midnightpulp]

:lol

Havilcek: 7

Kobe: 5

Therefore, Havilcek > Kobe.

[Giuseppe]

Havilcek: 7

Kobe: 5

Therefore, Havilcek > Kobe.

Fine. You do that one. I'm stickin' with:::

Kobe: 5

tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

[midnightpulp]

Fine. You do that one. I'm stickin' with:::

Kobe: 5

tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

Do you accept that Havilcek is a greater player than Kobe?

[Koolaid_Man]

Do you accept that Havilcek is a greater player than Kobe?

Here is what I accept...:lol


Vol 1.
anoqbgOZrEg

Vol 2.

IxYZAgKRtM8

Vol 3.

PtGJSiMqpWk

[lefty]

Then if we are talking about versatile defensive one on one players, names like McMillan, Hakeem, Pippen, Payton and KG come to mind

[timvp]

If Kobe Bryant were black and didn't demand a trade to the Lakers he'd be Nick Young, tnbh.

[Koolaid_Man]

If Kobe Bryant were black and didn't demand a trade to the Lakers he'd be Nick Young, tnbh.


Can you recommend a good resort in DR?

[FkLA]

Agreed.

I dont think you can credit the playoff success of Kobe or Duncan to either as individuals completely ...it is a team sport. If that is teh case then Duncan would deserve blame for the sweep last year. YEs they are the leaders for most of their teams (except the early 2000's Lakers) but that's a dumb reason...for this conclusion. I can get the argument you would rather have a big ...and I agree with that for the most part. I just think Kobe is the kind of player that you would take over most bigs. But Duncan is great and I think it's close enough that I can't say people who value Duncan over Kobe are morons. Some would take Kobe others Duncan ...you really cant go wrong with either. But there is no need to knock one to build up the other both to me are top 10 players I just place kobe slightly above.

My list (only since 1980)
1. MJ
2. Magic
3. Kareem
4. Kobe
5. Duncan
6. Shaq
7. Bird
8. Hakeem
9. Isiah
10. Lebron* (pending a title) Wade or Pippen could be here until then

I think the top 3 are indisputable ...thouigh I can see an argument for Kareem or Magic at one but I have MJ.

At 4,5,6,7,8 Are also debateable that is the beauty of a sports DEBATE. No articles can make a definitive argument. It's clearly a subjective process ...and unless you use stats only aree biased arguments. Even with stats it's still biased based on the criteria used for the analysis ..

Kobe fanboys are too funny :lol

Those early 2000s Lakers were Kobe wasnt the team leader accounts for 60% of his titles, convenient how you dont mention that. Also basketball is a team game but not all teams have the same talent level...Kobe has had and has needed more talent around him than Duncan has in order to win. The reason for that is simple, Kobe really cant compare to Duncan when it comes to making players around him better. Both offensively and defensively.

[pass1st]

Kobe, during the first 3peat, was a system player that no team could possibly answer for because if you put focus on Kobe then Shaq would bend you over on his knee. If you paid attention to Shaq, Kobe would light you up with 15+ points in a matter of minutes. It took the top defensive specialists to slow him down, even then there was a good chance he would light the scoreboards up in spite. Kobe can carry a team on his back and be the reason for a W, but his performance depends on his teammates doing small things that would give him the green light to light it up.

Duncan is an anchor player whom you can depend on him for a task and he will do that task. He played good defense while posting up a good 23/10 against just about all competition. Teams didn't worry about stopping him as much as they worried about stopping everybody else so Duncan's performance would be for not. Duncan's performance didn't depend on others, but getting the W does.

They aren't really comparable because their respective teams demanded a different kind of output. Kobe needed to play a part in a system, but his part was absolutely vital for success. Despite what people say, there really wasn't an SG that could play Kobe's role during the first 3peat and Shaq needed Kobe just about as much as Kobe needed Shaq. Duncan, on the other hand, was the system an the success of the Spurs depended on all the pieces to fill in small tasks around their anchor, Duncan.

[Koolaid_Man]

until they met head to head...Kobe slaughtered that cuck roach

WQxgHgRh95Y

[Koolaid_Man's Dad]

until they met head to head...kobe slaughtered that cuck roach

wqxghgrh95y

get off them youtubes!!!

[Koolaid_Man]

get off them youtubes!!!


get off the hippo pills

[pass1st]

get off the hippo pills

You should respect your father, he lets you live at his house and eat his food.

[TheMACHINE]

If Duncan and Kobe played together, they probably win all the titles from 1999-2007.

[kingmalaki]

Agreed.

I dont think you can credit the playoff success of Kobe or Duncan to either as individuals completely ...it is a team sport. If that is teh case then Duncan would deserve blame for the sweep last year. YEs they are the leaders for most of their teams (except the early 2000's Lakers) but that's a dumb reason...for this conclusion. I can get the argument you would rather have a big ...and I agree with that for the most part. I just think Kobe is the kind of player that you would take over most bigs. But Duncan is great and I think it's close enough that I can't say people who value Duncan over Kobe are morons. Some would take Kobe others Duncan ...you really cant go wrong with either. But there is no need to knock one to build up the other both to me are top 10 players I just place kobe slightly above.

My list (only since 1980)
1. MJ
2. Magic
3. Kareem
4. Kobe
5. Duncan
6. Shaq
7. Bird
8. Hakeem
9. Isiah
10. Lebron* (pending a title) Wade or Pippen could be here until then

I think the top 3 are indisputable ...thouigh I can see an argument for Kareem or Magic at one but I have MJ.

At 4,5,6,7,8 Are also debateable that is the beauty of a sports DEBATE. No articles can make a definitive argument. It's clearly a subjective process ...and unless you use stats only aree biased arguments. Even with stats it's still biased based on the criteria used for the analysis ..

Robert Horry played with Shaq, Kobe and Duncan and says Hakeem is the best he ever played with. Elie played with Duncan and says Hakeem is the best he ever played with. I'm just saying....

[FkLA]

Robert Horry played with Shaq, Kobe and Duncan and says Hakeem is the best he ever played with. Elie played with Duncan and says Hakeem is the best he ever played with. I'm just saying....

Dream at his peak is arguably the best center of all-time and would definitely need a higher ranking than Shaq, Duncan, and Kobe. Once you factor in longevity though I think Shaq and Duncan jump him.

[Leetonidas]

Players with all-time playoff OR/DR margins above 10:

Magic Johnson: 122, 107
MJ: 118, 104
Tim Duncan: 110, 98
Kareem: 114, 103
Hakeem: 112, 101
Larry Bird: 114, 104

Those stats don't prop Kobe up therefore they are useless and serve no purpose

[Koolaid_Man]

If Duncan and Kobe played together, they probably win all the titles from 1999-2007.


Duncan would have been Kobe's bitch per the usual if they played on the same team...Duncan wouldn't have had the balls to stand up to Kobe....:lol he would have been a yes man all the way :lol

[jgome21]

This argument is irrelevent. Kobe plays the guard and TD is a power foward. You really can't compare the two.

[kingmalaki]

Dream at his peak is arguably the best center of all-time and would definitely need a higher ranking than Shaq, Duncan, and Kobe. Once you factor in longevity though I think Shaq and Duncan jump him.

False. Hakeem always had great numbers, and his career number (totals and avg per game) are right there with both of those guys. They just won more. They also, without a shadow of a doubt, played more seasons with teams capable of winning more. Especially peak seasons. Neither played half of theirprime years with subpar talent.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe has a higher Playoff PER than Larry Bird and Magic Johnson
Doesn't mean he's better, PER doesn't tell you who's a better player.

[Killakobe81]

Robert Horry played with Shaq, Kobe and Duncan and says Hakeem is the best he ever played with. Elie played with Duncan and says Hakeem is the best he ever played with. I'm just saying....

I agree with both guys. At his peak Olajawon is better than both Kobe or Duncan tbh. But when you look at "body of work" number of years at a high level and multiple titles, Duncan leading the first 4 titles in Spur history that is where Kobe & Duncan have an edge on Shaq & Hakeem.

Olajawon & Kareem at his best were the two best big man I had ever seen, but unfortunately I didnt start watching ball until 1980 ...so i missed most of Kareem's prime.

[ClipperLuva]

Kobe has a higher Playoff PER than Larry Bird and Magic Johnson
Doesn't mean he's better, PER doesn't tell you who's a better player.
PER doesn't tell me that my team is better than yours. I just watch the ass whipping and figure it out.